Chinese see miltary operate!

[JB in so cal]

SHANGHAI (AP) — Chinese military observers said Thursday that observing U.S. military exercises in the Pacific this week gave them a better understanding of U.S. weapons and tactics.
Delegation leader Rear Adm. Zhang Leiyu called the visit to the war games near Guam "a positive step in China-U.S. military ties," the official Xinhua News agency reported.
It was the first time a delegation from China had been invited to officially observe U.S. maneuvers in the Pacific, where China and the U.S. face potential conflicts over Taiwan.
"The visit helped China obtain a better understanding of U.S. weapons, training, skills and exercise arrangements," said Zhang, a navy vice chief of staff and commandant of China's Naval Submarine Academy.
Dubbed "Valiant Shield," the exercises brought three carriers together in the Pacific for the first time since the Vietnam War. Some 30 ships, 280 aircraft and 22,000 troops participated in the five-day war games, which ended Thursday.
Zhang's assessment of the exercises will likely be welcomed by exchange advocates, who argue Chinese exposure to advanced U.S. capabilities reduces the chances of misunderstandings or clashes.
However, the comments may arouse concern among exchange opponents. They say China gains valuable information about the U.S. military without giving away anything in return about their own 2.3 million-member armed forces — the world's largest.
Adm. William J. Fallon, the top U.S. commander in the Pacific who invited the Chinese delegation, said before the exercises began that he expected China to reciprocate. However, neither Zhang or the Xinhua report gave any indication that such an invitation was forthcoming.
The two countries' militaries have had their share of friction in the past, including fighting against each other in the Korean War. In 1996, the U.S. Navy sent two aircraft carrier battle groups to the waters near Taiwan amid Chinese war games to intimidate the self-governing island, whose defense Washington is legally bound to assist.
China and Taiwan split in 1949 amid civil war, and Beijing has threatened to attack if the island continues to resist unification.
This week's maneuvers were part of U.S. efforts to reinvigorate exchanges between the two militaries, which have had little interaction since a U.S. spy plane collided with a Chinese jet fighter over the South China Sea in 2001.
Later Thursday, Xinhua said China is "open" to military exchanges with the United States, and that it is willing to promote bilateral defense and security cooperation, citing remarks by Chinese State Councilor Tang Jiaxuan.
Tang made the remarks following a meeting with a delegation of the American Foreign Policy Council, a non-profit organization. The delegation was led by retired Gen. Richard Myers, former chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, Xinhua said.

[Seadog]

The chinese probably have as good as an assessment of our fighting tactics, weaknesses, and strengths as we do. Maybe more so since it is hard to really assess your own capabilities subjectively and when you have to report to superiors. This is not going to tell them anything they do not already know. I suspect that there is video recordings of all their delegation and select people watching them. I bet they are watching the reactions for any indication that they are not aware of some capabilities, to give a hint of what else we may still have secret. The chinese are copying us and the best of every nation to develop a naval power next to none. Their real power is the build up of diesel subs with capabilities to run their diesel engines for long periods under water. This gives them silent running, inexpensive subs with much longer range and capabilities. It would be in our best interest to build a bunch of these for coastal defense, but we are hooked on nukes.

[Blown 472]

The chinese probably have as good as an assessment of our fighting tactics, weaknesses, and strengths as we do. Maybe more so since it is hard to really assess your own capabilities subjectively and when you have to report to superiors. This is not going to tell them anything they do not already know. I suspect that there is video recordings of all their delegation and select people watching them. I bet they are watching the reactions for any indication that they are not aware of some capabilities, to give a hint of what else we may still have secret. The chinese are copying us and the best of every nation to develop a naval power next to none. Their real power is the build up of diesel subs with capabilities to run their diesel engines for long periods under water. This gives them silent running, inexpensive subs with much longer range and capabilities. It would be in our best interest to build a bunch of these for coastal defense, but we are hooked on nukes.
Or they could just call in our debt :rolleyes:

[Old Texan]

I just have to believe we have more sense than to show anything they haven't already seen.
The US is military is nothing like the boneheads in our congress. We keep the good stuff close to the vest. The media once again is easily duped.

[Old Texan]

Or they could just call in our debt :rolleyes:
I agree, that is far more worrisome than understanding a few military tactics. The Chinese can do far more damage to us economically than militarily.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Or they could just call in our debt :rolleyes:
So tell me blown, and understanding I am stupid aparently (a "W" Sheepple), just what would this gain them? Please be specific and thorough blown, I don't wanna miss out on such a potentially valuable lesson in economics.

[Blown 472]

So tell me blown, and understanding I am stupid aparently (a "W" Sheepple), just what would this gain them? Please be specific and thorough blown, I don't wanna miss out on such a potentially valuable lesson in economics.
I am sure with your vast knowledge of the internet you could find all kinds of articles about the chineese and their plans to crush us via our economy.

[centerhill condor]

is all written down just like everybody elses... their plan is not to confront us directly but as part of a group much like the "pile on" tactics employed by Persia/Syria/DPRK et al. Also, the Chinese refer frequently to the "revolution in military affairs" or rma. You know it as the digital revolution. Their theory is that we won't take advantage of the rma and they will.
Their view is the fat lazy Americans will become so bloated with social spending and political infighting as to cut the military much like Clinton, Carter, etc.
Their plan also includes picking our pocket to the point of destabilizing the polictical framework that runs the country, smiling all the way. Then and only then will they strike. We'll be too riled up about the welfare checks bouncing to respond appropriately.
So now you know exactly what they do. A very simple plan that relies on our poor choices, arrogance, and lack of planning.
One way the U.S. could break this program is to beat to death our enemies one at a time! For some reason, during the last 60 years, we let our enemies escape with the seed for future conflict. The Nazis and Empire of Japan were destroyed. How would DPRK act today if we had followed General MacArthur's advice? I think they'd be speaking english and helping the world community instead of threatening nuclear war! President Truman didn't want to start another world war over North Korea. He just put it off on the next guy. Sound famliar?
a very old commie phrase is that "we'll hang the last capitalist with a rope he sold us".

[Old Texan]

The Chinese play by their own set of rules and to many US business and political "elite" are too arrogant to understand. Until we remove the Kerry, Kennedy, and Reid types, we degress in our abilities compete globally. These men have no business smarts and rely on Capitol Hill pollitical favors to maintain a power base of selfserving interests. I don't want to start a labor union hijack and rant, but that is what drives the Kennedy pol machine rather than good business sense.

[Seadog]

An if we renege on our debts, how would they collect? We can just do what so many other nations have done with us, go to the WB and declare special circumstances. It would do as much, if not more harm to PRC to do so.

[redneckcharlie]

hey blown, just exactly what would happen to china if they lost their ability to export products to the us? it would probably resemble something like a wound drying up from hydrogen peroxide. :rolleyes:

[Blown 472]

hey blown, just exactly what would happen to china if they lost their ability to export products to the us? it would probably resemble something like a wound drying up from hydrogen peroxide. :rolleyes:
That has nothing to do with it, think about it like this, if you buy a house and the bank has the debt and one day they say I want to be payed in full and you dont have it, what happens??

[SmokinLowriderSS]

That has nothing to do with it, think about it like this, if you buy a house and the bank has the debt and one day they say I want to be payed in full and you dont have it, what happens??
That's rich blown. The Chinese are going to foreclose on the entire country and evict us into ........ ummmmmmmm the ocean, no .... Mexico. Cool.

[redneckcharlie]

hey blown, give me some examples of this large debt that is owed to china? :rolleyes:

[Blown 472]

That's rich blown. The Chinese are going to foreclose on the entire country and evict us into ........ ummmmmmmm the ocean, no .... Mexico. Cool.
yup you is so dang smart.

[redneckcharlie]

hey blown, wheres the examples of debt? as usual, you post something with no factual facts and basis. :argue: now thats a complete surprise! :rolleyes:

[Poster X]

The Looming Dangers of American Debt
Wednesday, June 7, 2006
America has become a nation of debtors. Increasingly, that debt is held by foreign nations—some of which are enemies.
What does the term serf bring to mind? Poor, indebted, landless, forced labor—perhaps even medieval. Shockingly, serfdom is a reality many Americans may face in the future. Here is why.
The U.S. national debt now stands at more than $8.3 trillion, of which more than $2 trillion is owned by foreigners. Since 2000, the percentage of U.S. public debt owed to foreigners has doubled.
Take China for example. As of March of this year, China held over $321 billion worth of U.S. Treasuries, up from the $60 billion it owned at the end of 2000. Similarly, Japan now owns $640 billion worth of U.S. Treasuries, up from $317.7 billion in December 2000. Lately, however, America has also borrowed heavily from oil exporter nations (as defined by the Department of the Treasury), which include many nations that despise America. Luminaries such as Venezuela, Ecuador, Iran, Libya, Algeria, Indonesia and Iraq, and several other primarily Middle Eastern nations, now own $98 billion worth of U.S. debt.
According to Brad Setser, director of research at Roubini Global Economics, “The irony is that the three countries in the world adding to reserves the fastest and thus buying the most U.S. debt now are China, Saudi Arabia and Russia, none of them democracies. … We are increasingly counting on a group of creditors who are not our closest friends but have a bigger and bigger stake in America,” he says.
So America’s debt is growing, and a greater amount is in less reliable hands.
This creates two problems.
First, the value of the dollar is increasingly dependent upon foreigners. This makes the U.S. vulnerable to coercion and blackmail.
In commenting on this radical shift in holders of U.S. debt, Frederick Kempe of the Wall Street Journal says, “The more closely economists study that data, the more they worry,” especially over America’s “decrease[d] influence over … the world’s largest market, the $2 trillion in foreign exchange that changes hands daily. The dollar forex market can increasingly be shifted by decisions that foreign governments make about selling dollar assets. What’s also at stake is leverage on matters as diverse as U.S. home mortgage rates and America’s global political clout” (May 9).
For example, remember what happened on June 23, 1997, when former Japanese Prime Minister Ryutaro Hashimoto wondered aloud about what would happen to the U.S. economy if Japan diversified and began to sell some of its, at that time, $300 billion in U.S. Treasury securities (remember Japan now owns more than $640 billion worth). Following Hashimoto’s remarks, the Dow Jones Industrial Average plunged by the largest single day amount (at that time) since the Crash of 1987. Aids to Hashimoto were quick to say that the comments were not intended as a threat. Since then, other foreigners have wondered aloud about dumping U.S. debt (Treasuries), also causing ripple effects through global markets (Moscow Times, May 11).
But what if, at some point, our debtors did want to influence American policy? In a potential conflict between China and Taiwan, would China stand idly by, holding $321 billion in U.S. debt, if the United States was to interfere to protect democratic Taiwan? Would Taiwan simply hold its $68.9 billion if China attacked it and America did not come to its aid?
What if China and Taiwan were to peacefully reunite? Together they would control $389.9 billion worth of U.S. debt. Since China also controls Hong Kong, you can add in an additional $46.6 billion worth of U.S. debt, for a grand total of $436.5 billion.
That is a huge chunk of potential economic or political influence. So much influence that if China even “reduces its Treasury purchases, the U.S. would run into difficulties” financing its debts, says the Nikkei Weekly. That same publication says Chinese leaders have boasted that because China is such an important lender to America, “Beijing is holding a dagger to Washington’s throat” (May 1).
The second problem with having foreigners hold so much U.S. debt is the risk that foreigners may choose to stop accumulating it and start spending it. As with any person, the more money you have, the greater the pull to spend. If foreign nations begin to spend their dollars, the increased supply of U.S. greenbacks in circulation would probably drive the value of the dollar down, making American possessions less expensive relative to assets in other currencies. Consequently, American corporations and businesses could increasingly become targets of foreign acquisitions.
There are signs that some of America’s top corporations are already being snapped up.
Last week, American-owned Engelhard Corporation, a strategic manufacturer of catalytic converters and precious metals processing, announced that it would succumb to German-owned basf’s $5.6 billion hostile takeover—the largest-ever hostile takeover of an American company by a German corporation. Engelhard employs approximately 7,000 people worldwide.
In April, France’s telecommunications giant Alcatel sa announced it would acquire American telecom equipment maker Lucent Technologies Inc. for $13.4 billion. Since then, thousands of American workers have been laid off.
In February, Japan’s Toshiba Corp announced that it had purchased Pennsylvania-based Westinghouse Electric, the manufacturer of nuclear reactor technology, for $5.4 billion (Chicago Sun Times, February 7). Westinghouse had previously been purchased by a British-owned company.
That same month, Dubai Ports World, a United Arab Emirates company, announced it was trying to purchase the right to manage six of America’s largest port complexes, including those of New York, New Jersey, Baltimore, New Orleans, Miami and Philadelphia, from another British company. That deal later fell through due to national security concerns and congressional resistance.
During 2005, congressional opposition blocked another high-profile foreign takeover when Chinese-owned oil company cnooc proposed to buy out U.S. oil company Unocal for $18.5 billion (Financial Times, London, February 9). Slightly more than a month prior to the attempted Unocal deal, China’s Lenovo Group bought ibm’s personal computer unit for $1.75 billion.
Unfortunately, American companies increasingly look like a smorgasbord ready to be gobbled up.
But what if Congress continues to block foreign acquisitions, as it did with cnooc and Dubai Ports World? Foreign investors might become less willing to lend money to the United States. If foreigners are prevented from spending their American dollars on American acquisitions, they might begin to ask themselves why they are purchasing and holding so many U.S. Treasuries—and decide to dump them. Not good news for an already weak dollar.
America’s indebtedness is endangering the nation. Edwin Truman, who directed the Federal Reserve System’s Division of International Finance for 20 years, is not a doomsayer, but even he is warning America that there is now a 10 to 15 percent probability of a “catastrophic collapse of the financial system.” Never mind about the regular-type collapses: He is warning about a “catastrophic” disaster on the scale of the Great Depression or worse (Wall Street Journal, op. cit.).
Overspending has indebted America to the rest of the world. We owe the world so much that the threat of other nations inducing a U.S. economic disaster by just refusing to lend us more money is now a reality. As such, as America’s indebtedness grows, America is less able to protect strategic industries from foreign takeovers.
Who is a serf? A serf is one whose destiny is owned by others. Someone else owns the land he slaves on. Someone else owns the profits and technology he develops. All the fruits of his labor flow to his owners.
Debt is turning America into a serfdom.

[Poster X]

<insert crickets chirping here>

[Bow Tie Omega]

Or they could just call in our debt :rolleyes:
Or funnel nuclear technology to the Chinese to blow us up...Oh yeah, Clinton/Gore already did that while Gore was busy inventing the internet and Clinton was busy staining a blue dress in the Oval Office. When he was not playing with Monica, he and his liberal friends were hard at work breaking apart our military piece by piece to artifically reduce the defecit. All kidding aside, the Military is just allowing the Chinese to see bulk force operations, something any Joe, Dick or Chang can see/understand with a half way decent intelligence program

[SmokinLowriderSS]

The Looming Dangers of American Debt
Wednesday, June 7, 2006
America has become a nation of debtors. Increasingly, that debt is held by foreign nations—some of which are enemies.
What does the term serf bring to mind? Poor, indebted, landless, forced labor—perhaps even medieval. Shockingly, serfdom is a reality many Americans may face in the future. Here is why.
The U.S. national debt now stands at more than $8.3 trillion, of which more than $2 trillion is owned by foreigners. Since 2000, the percentage of U.S. public debt owed to foreigners has doubled.
Take China for example. As of March of this year, China held over $321 billion worth of U.S. Treasuries, up from the $60 billion it owned at the end of 2000. Similarly, Japan now owns $640 billion worth of U.S. Treasuries, up from $317.7 billion in December 2000. Lately, however, America has also borrowed heavily from oil exporter nations (as defined by the Department of the Treasury), which include many nations that despise America. Luminaries such as Venezuela, Ecuador, Iran, Libya, Algeria, Indonesia and Iraq, and several other primarily Middle Eastern nations, now own $98 billion worth of U.S. debt.
According to Brad Setser, director of research at Roubini Global Economics, “The irony is that the three countries in the world adding to reserves the fastest and thus buying the most U.S. debt now are China, Saudi Arabia and Russia, none of them democracies. … We are increasingly counting on a group of creditors who are not our closest friends but have a bigger and bigger stake in America,” he says.
So America’s debt is growing, and a greater amount is in less reliable hands.
This creates two problems.
First, the value of the dollar is increasingly dependent upon foreigners. This makes the U.S. vulnerable to coercion and blackmail.
In commenting on this radical shift in holders of U.S. debt, Frederick Kempe of the Wall Street Journal says, “The more closely economists study that data, the more they worry,” especially over America’s “decrease[d] influence over … the world’s largest market, the $2 trillion in foreign exchange that changes hands daily. The dollar forex market can increasingly be shifted by decisions that foreign governments make about selling dollar assets. What’s also at stake is leverage on matters as diverse as U.S. home mortgage rates and America’s global political clout” (May 9).
For example, remember what happened on June 23, 1997, when former Japanese Prime Minister Ryutaro Hashimoto wondered aloud about what would happen to the U.S. economy if Japan diversified and began to sell some of its, at that time, $300 billion in U.S. Treasury securities (remember Japan now owns more than $640 billion worth). Following Hashimoto’s remarks, the Dow Jones Industrial Average plunged by the largest single day amount (at that time) since the Crash of 1987. Aids to Hashimoto were quick to say that the comments were not intended as a threat. Since then, other foreigners have wondered aloud about dumping U.S. debt (Treasuries), also causing ripple effects through global markets (Moscow Times, May 11).
But what if, at some point, our debtors did want to influence American policy? In a potential conflict between China and Taiwan, would China stand idly by, holding $321 billion in U.S. debt, if the United States was to interfere to protect democratic Taiwan? Would Taiwan simply hold its $68.9 billion if China attacked it and America did not come to its aid?
What if China and Taiwan were to peacefully reunite? Together they would control $389.9 billion worth of U.S. debt. Since China also controls Hong Kong, you can add in an additional $46.6 billion worth of U.S. debt, for a grand total of $436.5 billion.
That is a huge chunk of potential economic or political influence. So much influence that if China even “reduces its Treasury purchases, the U.S. would run into difficulties” financing its debts, says the Nikkei Weekly. That same publication says Chinese leaders have boasted that because China is such an important lender to America, “Beijing is holding a dagger to Washington’s throat” (May 1).
The second problem with having foreigners hold so much U.S. debt is the risk that foreigners may choose to stop accumulating it and start spending it. As with any person, the more money you have, the greater the pull to spend. If foreign nations begin to spend their dollars, the increased supply of U.S. greenbacks in circulation would probably drive the value of the dollar down, making American possessions less expensive relative to assets in other currencies. Consequently, American corporations and businesses could increasingly become targets of foreign acquisitions.
There are signs that some of America’s top corporations are already being snapped up.
Last week, American-owned Engelhard Corporation, a strategic manufacturer of catalytic converters and precious metals processing, announced that it would succumb to German-owned basf’s $5.6 billion hostile takeover—the largest-ever hostile takeover of an American company by a German corporation. Engelhard employs approximately 7,000 people worldwide.
In April, France’s telecommunications giant Alcatel sa announced it would acquire American telecom equipment maker Lucent Technologies Inc. for $13.4 billion. Since then, thousands of American workers have been laid off.
In February, Japan’s Toshiba Corp announced that it had purchased Pennsylvania-based Westinghouse Electric, the manufacturer of nuclear reactor technology, for $5.4 billion (Chicago Sun Times, February 7). Westinghouse had previously been purchased by a British-owned company.
That same month, Dubai Ports World, a United Arab Emirates company, announced it was trying to purchase the right to manage six of America’s largest port complexes, including those of New York, New Jersey, Baltimore, New Orleans, Miami and Philadelphia, from another British company. That deal later fell through due to national security concerns and congressional resistance.
During 2005, congressional opposition blocked another high-profile foreign takeover when Chinese-owned oil company cnooc proposed to buy out U.S. oil company Unocal for $18.5 billion (Financial Times, London, February 9). Slightly more than a month prior to the attempted Unocal deal, China’s Lenovo Group bought ibm’s personal computer unit for $1.75 billion.
Unfortunately, American companies increasingly look like a smorgasbord ready to be gobbled up.
But what if Congress continues to block foreign acquisitions, as it did with cnooc and Dubai Ports World? Foreign investors might become less willing to lend money to the United States. If foreigners are prevented from spending their American dollars on American acquisitions, they might begin to ask themselves why they are purchasing and holding so many U.S. Treasuries—and decide to dump them. Not good news for an already weak dollar.
America’s indebtedness is endangering the nation. Edwin Truman, who directed the Federal Reserve System’s Division of International Finance for 20 years, is not a doomsayer, but even he is warning America that there is now a 10 to 15 percent probability of a “catastrophic collapse of the financial system.” Never mind about the regular-type collapses: He is warning about a “catastrophic” disaster on the scale of the Great Depression or worse (Wall Street Journal, op. cit.).
Overspending has indebted America to the rest of the world. We owe the world so much that the threat of other nations inducing a U.S. economic disaster by just refusing to lend us more money is now a reality. As such, as America’s indebtedness grows, America is less able to protect strategic industries from foreign takeovers.
Who is a serf? A serf is one whose destiny is owned by others. Someone else owns the land he slaves on. Someone else owns the profits and technology he develops. All the fruits of his labor flow to his owners.
Debt is turning America into a serfdom.
Oh the doom ...... the gloom ........ the horrible black cloud ....... :rolleyes:

[redneckcharlie]

so that is a boatload of debt! not!!!!!!!!!! if the numbers you posted are correct, six hundred billion on a gnp of ? is? whats the percentage? compare that same six hundred billion to the federal governments budget, whats the percentage of debt? now turn your post around. how much do the countries that you posted owe to the us, private investors and federal? as usual, there is only one side posted. :rolleyes:
as for the crickets, the suns out, and it its high 90's here, so i was at the lake! :crossx:

[Poster X]

The US does not collect on foreign debt. We forgive it. Also, the countries we are indebted to do not owe us on loans or grants. That Jack... is a fact. :wink:

[redneckcharlie]

the us doesn't collect on foreign debt? wow, thats rich! just exactly is economic expansion, then? :rolleyes:

[Poster X]

The United States public debt, commonly called the national debt, gross federal debt or U.S. government debt, is the amount of money owed by the United States federal government to creditors who hold US Debt Instruments. This does not include the money owed by states, corporations, or individuals. As of April 18th, 2006, the total U.S. government debt was $8.395724 trillion. Most importantly, this does not include the money owed to Social Security beneficiaries in their future lifetimes--an amount much larger than the official debt.
The CIA's World Factbook estimated the U.S's 2005 GDP at $12.49 trillion, ranking it at the time as the 35th most indebted country in the world by percentage of GDP at 64.7% of GDP. By comparison, the Factbook's 2005 estimate of China's external debt was $242 billion with an estimated 2005 GDP of $2.225 trillion. Of the 206 listed countries in the Factbook the combined debt was $38.54 trillion. Of that world wide debt, the US owes approximately 22%.
The Bureau of the Public Debt, a division of the United States Treasury Department, calculates the amount of money owed by the national government on a daily basis.
Economic expansion?
The Bush administration’s military expansion has connections to its economic expansion. Large US-based transnational oil companies, looking for increased profits, played an important part in the invasion and occupation of Iraq, which has the world’s second largest proven oil reserves. Through the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank and the World Trade Organization, the US exercises economic power over poorer countries and shapes the international trade framework. However, the US financial position is deteriorating, due largely to its growing trade deficit. The US is more dependent on the rest of the world for capital than at any time in the past 50 years. Analysts argue that the US can neither sustain nor expand its empire under these conditions. Increased military spending and other related costs put further pressure on the weakened economy, through government deficits, reduced social safety nets, unemployment and sinking domestic demand for goods and services outside the military sector.

[Old Texan]

The United States public debt, commonly called the national debt, gross federal debt or U.S. government debt, is the amount of money owed by the United States federal government to creditors who hold US Debt Instruments. This does not include the money owed by states, corporations, or individuals. As of April 18th, 2006, the total U.S. government debt was $8.395724 trillion. Most importantly, this does not include the money owed to Social Security beneficiaries in their future lifetimes--an amount much larger than the official debt.
The CIA's World Factbook estimated the U.S's 2005 GDP at $12.49 trillion, ranking it at the time as the 35th most indebted country in the world by percentage of GDP at 64.7% of GDP. By comparison, the Factbook's 2005 estimate of China's external debt was $242 billion with an estimated 2005 GDP of $2.225 trillion. Of the 206 listed countries in the Factbook the combined debt was $38.54 trillion. Of that world wide debt, the US owes approximately 22%.
The Bureau of the Public Debt, a division of the United States Treasury Department, calculates the amount of money owed by the national government on a daily basis.
Economic expansion?
The Bush administration’s military expansion has connections to its economic expansion. Large US-based transnational oil companies, looking for increased profits, played an important part in the invasion and occupation of Iraq, which has the world’s second largest proven oil reserves. Through the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank and the World Trade Organization, the US exercises economic power over poorer countries and shapes the international trade framework. However, the US financial position is deteriorating, due largely to its growing trade deficit. The US is more dependent on the rest of the world for capital than at any time in the past 50 years. Analysts argue that the US can neither sustain nor expand its empire under these conditions. Increased military spending and other related costs put further pressure on the weakened economy, through government deficits, reduced social safety nets, unemployment and sinking domestic demand for goods and services outside the military sector.
And this passage is excerpted from?

[Poster X]

A McDonalds coloring book. Now prove it wrong genius.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

. Large US-based transnational oil companies, looking for increased profits, played an important part in the invasion and occupation of Iraq, which has the world’s second largest proven oil reserves.
Care to explain why the companies are BUYING the oil, AT MARKET PRICE since this was a war to give it to them free????????? Sheeeeeeeeesh.

[Old Texan]

A McDonalds coloring book. Now prove it wrong genius.
Once again the "bag of wind" has blown by a question.
You cut and paste and someone asks your source and suddenly a premature leap to conclusion. Nothing was mentioned as to right or wrong, the question was the source. I've not said I disagree with your point on the topic, I just wish to know the source of information in order to further my thoughts on the matter. But what can I gather from sarcasm.................
ASSUME......you have taken this to an art form. Never listen or read anything in context, just ASSUME. Oh yeah then throw in an insult and half a dozen posts later claim everyone is picking on you.
So egregiously predictable.

[Poster X]

Further your thoughts? Give me a break. You haven't furthered your thoughts since 1980. You guys will never look at simple facts for face value. If the facts literally blow your assumptions to pieces you want to pick on sources or say something incredibly stupid like "well, Bush didn't kill as many people as Pol Pot." But please.. knock your lights out. www.globalpolicy.org

[Old Texan]

http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/crisis/indexbub.htm
The source of Lunch Sack's point.

[redneckcharlie]

so the debt is about sixty percent of the gdp for one year? wow, thats alot of money, not! look at the big picture. people have been bitching about the national debt for how long? the national debt is an arbitrary number that is used to get peoples attention and devert it. also, you can not use social security as a debt index, that is a revolving budget item that is paid each year as part of the federal budget. tell me one way how the national debt has affected your life personally? i'd be willing to bet that the actions of your state has greatly more affect on anyones personal lives than the federal government. :rolleyes:

[Poster X]

Hey redneckcharlie. This is going to come as a big shock to you so sit down. I can wait.
Sitting down yet? Need more time? A chair is the thing with a seat legs and a back. Get comfy.
Ok, are you ready. If this wasn't the internet I would color it for you. Pretty purples and yellows. Maybe even some little pictures? That would be nice..wouldn't it?
Ok, you might have to get your big sister to help with muti-syllabic words but I'll try and keep them small just for you.
A long long time ago in a country called America our President signed into action the Social Security Administration. This was to help grown ups who get too old to work still eat, have a roof over their head and even recieve medical treatment and medicines. At the time it signified our maturity as an economy and our humanity as men. The goal was for everyone to pay a little each month and that would be invested in bonds and blue chip stocks to secure the future of every American family. Americans investing in America.
Well, some bad things happened and it just didn't work out, even though all intentions were good. Some American presidents even borrowed from social security to cover expenditures of their administration so we the people didn't freak out about budget surpluses and pork expenditures.
Lo and behold Americas economy began to slip slide away. Blue Chip companies began to merge solidifying their stock value but paying lower dividends because it was just one company instead of three. Social Security started downhill.
Soon, blue chip companies began outsourcing their production to other nations. This made dividends even lower and Social Security seemed doomed to collapse.
Another President came along and spent trillions of dollars we didn't have. So, he had to borrow heavily from Social Security also. This put the future of Social Security in a sure bad spot. Well, the American president decided that he could keep stock prices high if he borrowed even more money from foreign investors like China, Japan, the middle east and even Russia. By taking this money and counting it as income he could reinvest it in failing stocks for social security and tell everyone it had made a rebound. What a nice guy.
So now, americans think they have a strong economy and a futurized social security program even though it's stability is based on borrowing from foreign countries and creating a false rise in stocks and bonds while simultaneously creating a tunnel affect for the American dollar. When the merry go round stops, the money will still be owed with trillions of dollars in interest. Social Security will be bankrupt. The american dollar will be worthless and your children and your childrens children will be living in a third world country under corporate and foreign control.
You will still get to have a boat and a big shiny truck. Because you see, it will take years to trickle down to you. So you go nighty night and have sweet dreams. You do not have to think of anyone but yourself. Not your children. Certainly not their children. And definitely not a free america as you have enjoyed. To hell with kids and the future. They's just screw it up. Who cares if there's a world when you're gone anyway. Nighty night sweet prince. The sandman will tuck you in soon.

[redneckcharlie]

is the federal government still providing you with assistance? me, i pay my own way. no one in my family has ever taken a dime from social security, hasn't needed to, luckily. the amount of money we have paid in, is quite large, including myself, considering i'm not quite forty yet. i've been self employed my whole life, so my perspective is a little different. i don't expect the government to provide anything for me. maybe thats the difference between you and i. i'm not going to run across the street and tell my neighbor his house is on fire and then tell him he did something wrong. i'm going to get the people out first, then try and put the fire out. if you don't understand that, let me simplify it for you. if you have a complaint and don't want to try and solve the problem, the shut the fxxk up!!!!!!! :argue:

[Seadog]

As usual, a thread has devolve into absurditites by either Poser or Blowj. it would be interesting if we would have a discussion on an intellectual basis, rather than the morons baiting the conservatives.

[Poster X]

What makes you intellectuals think you're the only ones self employed and have never used social security benefits? Your arrogance knows no bounds. Your blind faith is without limitation and your myopic view of the world and it's future is only exceeded by your leadership.

[redneckcharlie]

blah, blah, blah, blah.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

What makes you intellectuals think you're the only ones self employed and have never used social security benefits? Your arrogance knows no bounds.
The bag-boy on unemployment chastizes us for being self-sufficient and not on the state's dole, while our income taxes pay him. LOL Precious. Talk about arrogance. :yuk:

[Poster X]

I notice congress gave themselves another raise. Does this mean my checks will go up? If I could just buy good gin instead of Schaeffers I might be a bit more tenable?