Aluminum Ford Big Block info please

[1968Droptop]

I'm looking to find out about aluminum BBF's. Where do i find one, how many cubes, weight savings, etc. I tried using my search engine with no luck. I'm ass-u-ming someone makes one ? A buddy thought he read about an 815 c.i. BBF. That may be extreme, but may do the job perfectly :skull:

[YeLLowBoaT]

I am sure that lakes will chim in here.
I know the ford A460 can be over bored to atleast 4.600. It can also be stroked way out. a 4.600 bore and 4.5 inch stroke would make it just under 600 CI
I know there is a company that make safter market iron and AL block that can be stroked out to like 6"s just for the life of me I can't remember then name.

[1968Droptop]

I am sure that lakes will chim in here.
I know there is a company that make safter market iron and AL block that can be stroked out to like 6"s just for the life of me I can't remember then name.
My buddy Tony and I are in the same spot. We've read about the big cube AL block, but can't remember where we did......Damn It Jim !!!!!!!!!

[78CoLe]

WWW.strokermotors.com

[LakesOnly]

I don't think you will find the A96 aluminum block available directly through Ford Racing at this time, nor am I in a position to suggest why.
If you must have an aluminum 429/460 block, I suggest locating an AR block. These blocks have not been made for some time, but if you can find one (the one with the cam-driven accessory idler boss cast into it), buy it.
How many molds were actually created (1 or 2) and where they might have ended up is a bit of a gray area for me and others. But it seems that one company may indeed have an original mold. (How "original" it is decades later is questionable...might have been tweaked/reworked?) Go to C and C Motorsports (http://candcmotorsports.com/) and select their "blocks" page. You will see two versions of the block: one with the cam-drive idler boss and one without. The website shows these blocks starting at $5495 for the standard deck deal. You may also want to inquire with Jon Kaase Racing Engines. (http://www.jonkaaseracingengines.com/) Again, click on the link to the blocks page. Kaase makes the 815 cubic inch hemi mountain motor. These are tall deck blocks and cost somewhere around $100,000,000,000. This Kaase 815 hemi pictured below was run at IHBA Nitro Nationals:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/350Kaase815_1.jpg
LO
p.s.: A standard deck's typical max CID is 598 (4.6B x 4.5S).

[Marty Gras]

Over ten years ago I worked on a BGF that ran an "A/R Ford". It was Ford parts made by Alan Root, and I think they were in (around) Ventura Calif. Good luck, you may find better sources down south (USA), those guys like their BIG Fords!

[LakesOnly]

Over ten years ago I worked on a BGF that ran an "A/R Ford". It was Ford parts made by Alan Root, and I think they were in (around) Ventura Calif. Good luck, you may find better sources down south (USA), those guys like their BIG Fords!The story I am about to tell I've heard only once, so it may not be exact...
I believe that A/R originally stood for Arias-Root, then later Alan Root (after the split). The point at which Nick Arias and Alan Root parted ways is where things get gray, depending on who you speak to and what their story is. Root said that a second block mold was made shortly after the two gentlemen separated and that (long story short) one of them ultimately ended up at C&C and the other is sitting in storage with a big pile of other stuff that that current owner aquired but doesn't use in their day-to-day business.
When the two split, Nick Arias called my business partner, Van, and basically wanted Van to run one of Nick's brand new blocks and go wreak havoc on Root's stuff (in effect). Van was supposed to get the #1 block out of the mold but that block was not configured exactly as Van wanted. Neither was casting #2 (block serial number FO2), but Van settled under the circumstances.
Personally, given the choice between an A96 block and an A/R block, I will go with the A/R block. The A96 block does not have the cam-driven idler gear boss, and I also know a few people that have had trouble with another A96 block feature...but I have no idea if it was an isolated situation or not. Whether or not the Root and the Arias blocks both have the cam-driven accessory feature in unclear to me, but I do believe it was Nick Arias' original design. Also, that new Arias block was available in all kinds of configurations, including side-skirting the block at the pan rails, solid, water jacketed, internal oiling system, external oil system, and both Ford and Mopar Hemi mounting F&R. And it just so happens that the C&C block is available with all these options, which suggests the possibility that C&C ended up with that block mold, probably after it passed through Chuck Seyler's hands...but that's another stroy.
Finally, although they have ceased production of it, you may try calling Race Parts Direct for the A96 block. They recently listed on ebay what they claimed to be the last of those A96 aluminum blocks in stock. If you want to inquire, you may contact them through Ebay by clicking HERE (http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZracepartsdirectQQhtZ-1QQfrppZ50QQfsopZ1QQfsooZ1QQrdZ0?) or try calling 704-892-8688.
LO

[kp216]

These are tall deck blocks and cost somewhere around $100,000,000,000.
Good grief Paul, one hundred billion dollars??????? That is one expensive mill!
I'm guessing or hoping... that that's a typo. :D

[YeLLowBoaT]

these guys make a Iron block that you can bore too 4.700..
http://eliminatorproducts.com/

[LakesOnly]

Eliminator makes some very nice cylinder blocks indeed, if it's iron that you want. I want to enter some personal preference here, specifically that if one want's the entry level Eliminator Sportsman Block, then personally I'd choose Ford Racing's A460 block over the Eliminator Sportsman (I already have, actually). The A460 and the Sportsman are about the same price, but the features between the two vary:
Both blocks have nodular cast main caps, SVO = 4-bolt on 2, 3, & 4, and Sportsman = 4-bolt on 1-5.
Both blocks have 2.25" standard-style cam bearings.
SVO has siamese cylinders, the Sportsman block does not
SVO can go to 4.600 bore, the Sportsman only to 4.500 bore.
SVO has provision for the 18-bolt head, Sportsman block does not (only the 4 extra bolt holes on the exhaust side???)
Both have priority mains oiling, but the Eliminator blocks require some unusual attention on the trans-side of the block end, if you wish to take advantage of this feature.
SVO is rated to 1500HP @ 8000 rpm, the Eliminator is rated only to 1100HP.
For the extra $100, personally I'll take the A-460 over the Sportsman. (Also, don't forget to ask how much shipping is! I can get anyone the A-460 and may beat the shipping price too.)
Back to aluminum,
Paul

[LakesOnly]

I'm looking to find out about aluminum BBF's. Where do i find one, how many cubes, weight savings, etc. A buddy thought he read about an 815 c.i. BBF. That may be extreme, but may do the job perfectly :skull:DropTop,
A very good friend of mine has a 665 cubic inch all aluminum tall deck motor for sale, if you're seriously interested. Cheaper than anyone else could build one for you, too. Best of everything and all brand new parts, no expense spared and yes, an A/R block:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/350Charlie.jpg
Interested?
LO

[LakesOnly]

Good grief Paul, one hundred billion dollars??????? That is one expensive mill!
I'm guessing or hoping... that that's a typo. :D
The engine is going to cost you...
http://www.austinpowers.com/objects/images/evilpinky_thumbnail.jpg
...one hundred billion dollars.
:D
LO

[1968Droptop]

DropTop,
A very good friend of mine has a 665 cubic inch all aluminum tall deck motor for sale, if you're seriously interested.
LO
Very interested, but it's a bit early $$$ wise for me. I was more on a fact finding mission, to which you've been of GREAT help ! I'm about a year away from completing my (our) 2nd house build. At that time I plan on going crazy on my boat.
My idea was to build a real big cube engine, hopefully aluminum to save weight, and dress it up as normal as possible. Yes I mean paint over all that pretty aluminum. Throw a nice tunnel ram on it, and go hunting :cool:. No nitrois, and no blower. The more I'm around and read about either of those mentioned, reliablitly becomes a real factor. This is something I want to avoid if at all possible. I thought building an AL block with big cubes would kill most comers that I would encounter. I have no intensions of organized racing, just be able to beat up on the locals. The goal was to keep my boat looking similar to all other typical jet boats.....tunnel ram and dual quads. Spending 5-7K on a block and going from there was livable for me, but after reading your post that may be a pipe dream.
There must not be much demand for AL Ford blocks huh ???
Thanks you very much for your info. I'll be reading the links you provided a couple times over to try and soak in all the info !!!

[C.Fisher]

it may be junk but who knows, kind of interesting though
http://www.flatlanderracing.com/strokerford-460806.html

[1968Droptop]

it may be junk but who knows, kind of interesting though
http://www.flatlanderracing.com/strokerford-460806.html
That's a LOT of cubes. The torque specs must be incredible, and I'd guess a red line of 4500................

[Marty Gras]

"Horsepower is like hamburger, now you can buy all you want" YES you can, but you're not ordering from the "dollar menu" anymore! Your idea sounds great (if you have the cash to throw around) but, "wouldn't a nice game of 14-71 Ford sound right about now"?

[cstraub]

I don't think you will find the A96 aluminum block available directly through Ford Racing at this time, nor am I in a position to suggest why.
If you must have an aluminum 429/460 block, I suggest locating an AR block. These blocks have not been made for some time, but if you can find one (the one with the cam-driven accessory idler boss cast into it), buy it.
How many molds were actually created (1 or 2) and where they might have ended up is a bit of a gray area for me and others. But it seems that one company may indeed have an original mold. (How "original" it is decades later is questionable...might have been tweaked/reworked?) Go to C and C Motorsports (http://candcmotorsports.com/) and select their "blocks" page. You will see two versions of the block: one with the cam-drive idler boss and one without. The website shows these blocks starting at $5495 for the standard deck deal. You may also want to inquire with Jon Kaase Racing Engines. (http://www.jonkaaseracingengines.com/) Again, click on the link to the blocks page. Kaase makes the 815 cubic inch hemi mountain motor. These are tall deck blocks and cost somewhere around $100,000,000,000. This Kaase 815 hemi pictured below was run at IHBA Nitro Nationals:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/350Kaase815_1.jpg
LO
p.s.: A standard deck's typical max CID is 598 (4.6B x 4.5S).
Paul,
Carrol Carter, C&C does have the original tooling along with stuff that he has done himself. Carrol is a Super Guy and great to deal with. He is offering a couple of Blocks and soon 3 if I am not mistaken.
Chris

[john f2000]

I believe I read in a magazine that world products was making one. At least from what I remember, but it was one of the larger aftermarket crate motor companies.

[LakesOnly]

Paul,
Carrol Carter, C&C does have the original tooling along with stuff that he has done himself. Carrol is a Super Guy and great to deal with. He is offering a couple of Blocks and soon 3 if I am not mistaken.
ChrisStraub,
Just did a little more reseach on all of this and it appears that the cam-driven accessory block is indeed the old Arias mold as you, too, confirmed. Further, it seems that the RDI block mold (aka A96) was acquired by C&C about a year ago afterall, as told by Root...who also stated at one point that he is (was?) involved with machining that block (and heads).
LO

[cstraub]

Paul,
Now that you bring up the RDI more bells went off. I have heard 4 or 5 sides of the story as it has transpired over the years. I can't and won't comment but I will say this. In the 6 years I have known Carrol Carter I have found him to be a true gent in this industry. He does what he says and stands behind his customers and product.

[1968Droptop]

You guys seem to have way more knowedge than i do. Hell I'm just starting to learn about jet boats. My buddy (Tony) and I are H/P junkies, and Ford fans as well. Tony is just about done with his 3 year project, a blown BOSS 9 engine ! And now I must surpass him, j.k..lol ! Like I said earlier, this is just the begining of finding out what's going to work best for me and my boat. Can you guys answer a couple other questions regarding BBF's ?
How big can an iron block go (and be reliable) ? We've read about oiling issue's, but don't know how bad it really is ?
How big can an AL block go (and be reliable) ?
How much deck heigth is added to a "tall deck" ?
Approx. how much lighter is the AL block ?
Thanks for taking the time answer these questions.

[cstraub]

You guys seem to have way more knowedge than i do. Hell I'm just starting to learn about jet boats. My buddy (Tony) and I are H/P junkies, and Ford fans as well. Tony is just about done with his 3 year project, a blown BOSS 9 engine ! And now I must surpass him, j.k..lol ! Like I said earlier, this is just the begining of finding out what's going to work best for me and my boat. Can you guys answer a couple other questions regarding BBF's ?
How big can an iron block go (and be reliable) ? We've read about oiling issue's, but don't know how bad it really is ?
How big can an AL block go (and be reliable) ?
How much deck heigth is added to a "tall deck" ?
Approx. how much lighter is the AL block ?
Thanks for taking the time answer these questions.
Chris,
The best info I can give you is call Carrol. If your interested in parts or complete turn key he can help you. Now Carrols hours are like 1pm to 3am in the morning . ..he still machines and assembles all his stuff. Call around 3pm EST and ask for him.. . .they will run "block" for him just tell him Chris Straub of Stef's Oil Pans said to call and talk to Carrol or Chris (Carrols son) about a Ford engine.
There is a super amount of knowledge on this board and I am in no means saying your questions can't be answered, I just thiknk by contacting C&C it will be the shortest route to answer everything. Number is 703 368 7878.
Thanks,
Chris

[wsuwrhr]

I would think the block would weigh in at less that 150lbs.
Brian
You guys seem to have way more knowedge than i do. Hell I'm just starting to learn about jet boats. My buddy (Tony) and I are H/P junkies, and Ford fans as well. Tony is just about done with his 3 year project, a blown BOSS 9 engine ! And now I must surpass him, j.k..lol ! Like I said earlier, this is just the begining of finding out what's going to work best for me and my boat. Can you guys answer a couple other questions regarding BBF's ?
How big can an iron block go (and be reliable) ? We've read about oiling issue's, but don't know how bad it really is ?
How big can an AL block go (and be reliable) ?
How much deck heigth is added to a "tall deck" ?
Approx. how much lighter is the AL block ?
Thanks for taking the time answer these questions.

[LakesOnly]

How big can an iron block go (and be reliable) ? We've read about oiling issue's, but don't know how bad it really is ?
How big can an AL block go (and be reliable) ?
How much deck heigth is added to a "tall deck" ?
Approx. how much lighter is the AL block ?
Thanks for taking the time answer these questions.
These engines do not have oiling issues; it's just a matter of proper setup. By the way, we sell quality specially prepped internal oil pumps and our website offers simple block oiling mods...but these none stock oiling system has been known to be more than adequate in high perf builds.
There are shelf stroker kits all day long to build a 557 with a passenger car block and this is only .080" overbore. Plenty of 572's have been built from a stock block, too. Personally, I have preference for the 521/533 4.3" stroker.
As far as how much displacement these blocks can hold, 600+ cubes is about it for standard deck (10.300") passenger car blocks (although reliability/lifespan is now compromised), and it goes up from there with the tall deck blocks. The height of a tall deck block can be whatever you want it to be, 11.1-12+ inches.
Weight varies by dozens of pounds depending on how much the cylinder is bored (from 4.36 to 4.625).
LO

[1968Droptop]

These engines do not have oiling issues; it's just a matter of proper setup. By the way, we sell quality specially prepped internal oil pumps and our website offers simple block oiling mods...but these none stock oiling system has been known to be more than adequate in high perf builds.
Thanks for the info guys, man am I drooling big time right now. My bad, I wasn't very clear about oiling issue's. I was refering to consumtion. We've read that the oil ring gets exposed by the heigth of the wrist pin. We're wondering how much consumtion there is ?
Let me ask another question of you. I know there's many variables. BUT, do you guys think my idea about a total sleeper is way off ? Does my boat need to have full stringers to hold that kind of power ? I'm in no way against re-stringing my boat as it's a 1/4 stringer right now, but is it nessesary ? Or is a good rail mount the answer ? I've been told my hull is safe at 100+ mph by a couple other that have Custom Sprint Sangers. I'm new to this boating thing, but kinda like it...can ya tell LOL.
P.S. Paul, can you PM me your # and a good time to call ? I'd enjoy chatting in person.
Chris. Thanks for forwarding Carrol's #. I'll dial the man up and listen to what he has to say.