Are NEW boat prices getting out of hand?

[riverracerx]

Just pricing a few new things and DAMN!!!! everything is expensive.
Even my boat, new, the way it sits is over 100K now. That is pure crazy talk.
And don't even get me started on engine/drive prices from Merc.

[Jyruiz]

Yes they are. I see a lot of Nordics, the 25' ones on the Trader (from dealers) and they are asking about 80k with the 496HO.

[GunninGopher]

Getting? It's already been Gotten!
I've been shocked since about 1994 at the prices boats are fetching. I can only hope for a 'Market Correction' if I ever intend to buy new.
Seems to me back in '92 you could buy an Ultra for about 16k. That was when A DCB and an Eliminator were the same thing, however.
It's hard to believe that was 14 years ago, now that I think about it.

[castone001]

outrageous proces, thats why I chose to rebuild a classic oldy.
The market prices are always related to what the market will bear, if folks are willing to pay the price than sellers will price it high. Are the boats REALLY worth it, well if you take out all the fluff and break it down, Boats are likle houses and there is a HUGE profit margin.
but thats just my ill informed pigeon holed view of my world :)

[Ziggy]

outrageous proces, thats why I chose to rebuild a classic oldy.
The market prices are always related to what the market will bear, if folks are willing to pay the price than sellers will price it high. Are the boats REALLY worth it, well if you take out all the fluff and break it down, Boats are likle houses and there is a HUGE profit margin.
but thats just my ill informed pigeon holed view of my world :)
Exactly what I told my wife just this past weekend. She commented on how expensive the boats have gotten and why? I said because people will pay it, if the economy tanks then prices will drop dramatically.

[USCFAN]

Prices to seem to be extremely high. I guess thats what happens when the demand is there. Hopefully the economy remains strong otherwise some builders will be hurting.

[Phat Matt]

Prices to seem to be extremely high. I guess thats what happens when the demand is there. Hopefully the economy remains strong otherwise some builders will be hurting.
Why would they be hurting if the prices are high due to demand? Wouldn't that just mean they are making more profit now? They seeemed to get by when prices were lower right?

[Froggystyle]

Why would they be hurting if the prices are high due to demand? Wouldn't that just mean they are making more profit now? They seeemed to get by when prices were lower right?
Not neccessarily. I see a lot of builders now that are in proper financial situations. Prior to the upward correction many were in pretty bad shape.
I can tell you one thing... the prices of materials, labor, cost of living, rent, shipping and parts have all gone through the roof from a builders perspective. There is no slack in the prices I am seeing people selling for. Most are selling "base models" for lower than our cost to build. Arguably... they are totally different boats with completely different levels of refinement and rigging, but the facts are the facts, and material and equipment cost is through the roof. Not to mention liability insurance (our single biggest cost other than rent), workmans comp, labor etc...
There is less margin than you might imagine.

[USCFAN]

Why would they be hurting if the prices are high due to demand? Wouldn't that just mean they are making more profit now? They seeemed to get by when prices were lower right?
Well depending on the builder you talk to they say the price of everything to build the boat including labor has gone up. So if you believe this theory then they really are not making more profit. I tend to believe most builders are probably making more profit with the high cost of boats although the cost to make them has risen. I guess they did get by when prices were lower but if any of these builders have raised there operating cost in IE(Bigger building) or other things business are able to do when business is good, once business slows how do you cover these cost? Your business is now relying on a certain amount of money every month to cover its operation.

[RiverToysJas]

I think that's why they are all building larger boats...there's more profit in it.
My boat is 22'8" long, but a how much more really goes into building a 27 or 28' boat with a single engine? 5-6 more feet of glass and wood, and a little more interior. All the spendy stuff - engine, hardware, drive, gauges, all the same, unless you upgrade the engine of course - but you can do that at any length. I thinks there's got to be a lot more profit in the 27-28' single engine boats than in 21-22' boats.
RTJas :D

[Not So Fast]

What amazes me is the prices for Mercury (Mercruiser) engine and drive packages, for example the new HP700 SCi. It lists for $83,210!!!! :confused: For this amount you can buy a very nice COMPLETE SUV or Truck or new Corvette ect. and have money left over. These have motors, transmissions, A/C, power windows, doorlocks, disc brakes, nav systems, sound systems, doors, upholstery (leather), well you get the idea, a lot of product other than an engine/drive package. Are they using some special materials? Seems a little out of whack to me, even the HP 525/XR package is over priced by a long shot when you use these comparisons. JMO :frown: NSF

[Magic34]

What amazes me is the prices for Mercury (Mercruiser) engine and drive packages, for example the new HP700 SCi. It lists for $83,210!!!! :confused: For this amount you can buy a very nice COMPLETE SUV or Truck or new Corvette ect. and have money left over. These have motors, transmissions, A/C, power windows, doorlocks, disc brakes, nav systems, sound systems, doors, upholstery (leather), well you get the idea, a lot of product other than an engine/drive package. Are they using some special materials? Seems a little out of whack to me, even the HP 525/XR package is over priced by a long shot when you use these comparisons. JMO :frown: NSF
Just to add. I have learned a lot about racing motors over the past months and the Nascar motors in the Cup series and Busch average about 800-850 HP and cost about $40k.

[GunninGopher]

I think that's why they are all building larger boats...there's more profit in it.
My boat is 22'8" long, but a how much more really goes into building a 27 or 28' boat with a single engine? 5-6 more feet of glass and wood, and a little more interior. All the spendy stuff - engine, hardware, drive, gauges, all the same, unless you upgrade the engine of course - but you can do that at any length. I thinks there's got to be a lot more profit in the 27-28' single engine boats than in 21-22' boats.
RTJas :D
I'm not in the industry, but I think you hit the nail on the head with that one.
Look at the reviews in Hot Boat (The Magazine). Yes, there is a magazine. Why would a builder shell out 10 plus thousand dollars to have a $20,000 boat reviewed, when the same $ will get a $100,000 boat reviewed? I'm not sure of the figures, but it would take a lot of convincing to get me to believe that HB does not charge heavily for getting a review.
So the big boats get all the press, wouldn't seem to be much more expensive to build, and folks can get a loan for it on their home, so they don't have to shell out for the insurance when they buy them.
Hopefully as interest rates continue to rise, and people either spend or lose equity, we'll see prices come down. Hopefully the builders will start competing on the smaller ones, too.

[Say10]

Funny I was just thinking about this the other day. What do you think the profit is in a $100,00 boat? I know there is alot of factors such big biulder, small builder, assembly line, custom. But if you are only building 20-30 boats a year. Living in Ca. profits gotta be good.

[Phat Matt]

Not neccessarily. I see a lot of builders now that are in proper financial situations. Prior to the upward correction many were in pretty bad shape.
I can tell you one thing... the prices of materials, labor, cost of living, rent, shipping and parts have all gone through the roof from a builders perspective. There is no slack in the prices I am seeing people selling for. Most are selling "base models" for lower than our cost to build. Arguably... they are totally different boats with completely different levels of refinement and rigging, but the facts are the facts, and material and equipment cost is through the roof. Not to mention liability insurance (our single biggest cost other than rent), workmans comp, labor etc...
There is less margin than you might imagine.
I am sure the pirce of building a boat has risen over the years. My point was if it was just due to demand, why would they hurt if prices dropped. They wouldn't.

[socalmofo]

I would say 20-30k profit per 100k boat. Just a guess.
If the same builder builds a 24' with a 496ho and a 27cat with a 496HO and all the same Gauges, controls, upholstery, etc. why the HUGE jump in cost? I know 5 feet and another wheel on the Extreme trailer dont add 40k??????
Ultra has a 24' with an HO for $64800 and a 27'cat with a HO for $94900
$25,000 - $30,000+ in extra cost????????

[wsuwrhr]

Just to add. I have learned a lot about racing motors over the past months and the Nascar motors in the Cup series and Busch average about 800-850 HP and cost about $40k.
Could you imagine the uproar of replacing the engine every single time you took the boat out?
Very little of the powertrain is reused untouched again in a Cup car. Many of the components are gone through and/or replaced every race. That is if it didn't go against the wall, or another car during the race.
Too much riding on the outcome.
I do think the 80k is out there though. But mercruiser stuff is pretty bulletproof isnt it?
I have always built my own motors
Brian

[wsuwrhr]

SD told me that all the fluid HOSES and fittings are replaced on a cup car every race. Now that surprised me.
Brian

[wsuwrhr]

I think this thread will get interesting

[Dawn Patrol]

I believe that materials for boats are going up. But I believe that alot of the boat manufacturer's are dumping money back into their companies and creating new molds, stronger materials, faster hulls etc. Look at how many companies have come out with a deck boat. Shockwave, Howard. Nordic came out with a cat and now a 40' vee. This cant be cheap. The process of tooling, design and eventually a boat is very expensive. I just think that the top boat manufactueres are reinvesting their money into R&D.

[Not So Fast]

Could you imagine the uproar of replacing the engine every single time you took the boat out?
Very little of the powertrain is reused untouched again in a Cup car. Many of the components are gone through and/or replaced every race. That is if it didn't go against the wall, or another car during the race.
Too much riding on the outcome.
I do think the 80k is out there though. But mercruiser stuff is pretty bulletproof isnt it?
I have always built my own motors
Brian
Ive been out of the Porsche market for some time now (Raised three sons) but I believe you can still get a nice 911 (are they still called that) for that price, AND ITS THE WHOLE CAR and pretty good quality at that. You telling me Mercury is that much higher quality, doubt that!! NSF

[Dave C]

bingo.. not only are we paying for todays cost of manufacturing the existing product but also future innovations.
just ask Froggystyle how much it costs to design and build a prototype ..... ;) :rollside:
those costs have to be allocated somewhere (i.e. existing products)
I believe that materials for boats are going up. But I believe that alot of the boat manufacturer's are dumping money back into their companies and creating new molds, stronger materials, faster hulls etc. Look at how many companies have come out with a deck boat. Shockwave, Howard. Nordic came out with a cat and now a 40' vee. This cant be cheap. The process of tooling, design and eventually a boat is very expensive. I just think that the top boat manufactueres are reinvesting their money into R&D.

[Roxysnow]

Yes they are! Prices are ridiculous!

[Beer-30]

Yes they are! Prices are ridiculous!
Last boat show I was told about $109K for duplicates of ours. I assume you bought yours new, as it's a few years newer than mine. I paid half that (not new).

[Jyruiz]

Last boat show I was told about $109K for duplicates of ours. I assume you bought yours new, as it's a few years newer than mine. I paid half that (not new).
One reason I think I will always buy used.

[No Name]

I myself would never buy a new boat again. I have been looking at used boats lately and have seen the same boats for sale for over six months now. These are boats that are two years old with low hours that owners are trying to sell for half of what they paid new. I was looking at a 2004 33’ Eliminator Daytona with twin 525’S. The guy paid almost 300,000.00 before TTL and is asking 159,000.00 OBO. I have looked at the boat and it is mint with 92 hours on it, I would buy it right now but I need to sell mine before I can do so. After buying two new boats in the last five years I can say I will never buy new again.

[Dave C]

Merc is a ripoff... nuff said.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

A simple example of how boating prices are inflated.
I was at the LA Boat show looking to upgrade. I was speaking with one of the LHC based builders, had the boat all set up with every option I wanted. Total options/upgrades were in excess of $12k I think; my memory is a little fuzzy. :) Anyway, the salesman says if I leave him a $500 deposit that day he will throw in the options for FREE! So, if this particular builder can throw in $12k+ of options at no charge how much freaking money you think the builder was making on that boat to begin with?

[USCFAN]

A simple example of how boating prices are inflated.
I was at the LA Boat show looking to upgrade. I was speaking with one of the LHC based builders, had the boat all set up with every option I wanted. Total options/upgrades were in excess of $12k I think; my memory is a little fuzzy. :) Anyway, the salesman says if I leave him a $500 deposit that day he will throw in the options for FREE! So, if this particular builder can throw in $12k+ of options at no charge how much freaking money you think the builder was making on that boat to begin with?
I would imagine a significant profit.. I am sure of one thing that everyone here can agree with because we know that there are not many. The word boat and the word free do not go together. Nothing is free when it comes to a boat.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I would imagine a significant profit.. I am sure of one thing that everyone here can agree with because we know that there are not many. The word boat and the word free do not go together. Nothing is free when it comes to a boat.
Break
Out
Another
Thousand

[KineticoH20]

Not to side with the builders as I am having a boat built right now, but there is a BIG difference between gross profit and net profit. Builders have to make money to get through lean times. Look at GM they have been losing billions per quarter.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I wouldn't bet on a 20 to 30% profit margin. After all costs are factored I would think that most would be lucky to net 5 - 7%
No way. They are operating on way mroe profit margin than that. I know of one builder that will offer as much as a 20% discount and they STILL make money on the boats.

[jbtrailerjim]

Yes, I definitely think new boat prices are out of hand. As long as the demand is high, the builders will continue to raise their prices. I can tell you that I know overhead for any business nowadays has increased. The higher prices are not just added profit to the builders. California is a very expensive state to do business in.
The thing that blows me away, is the amount of people that are buying these new boats. I'm stunned with the amount of people that sell their boats after one year and move up to something bigger. Do people really have that much disposable income where they can afford to take a big hit on a boat after owning it a year or two?
IMO...I think there is just a lot of people who have the trying to "Keep Up With The Jones" syndrome.

[Hotcobra270]

kinda makes you wonder if our kids will be able to afford a new boat...

[River918]

I would imagine a significant profit.. I am sure of one thing that everyone here can agree with because we know that there are not many. The word boat and the word free do not go together. Nothing is free when it comes to a boat.
I got some free coolie cups and T-Shirts with mine...Hell, you can't beat that.. :crossx:

[MR HARLEY]

I got some free coolie cups and T-Shirts with mine...Hell, you can't beat that.. :crossx:
You have Mrs River what more could a Man want or need. :p

[USCFAN]

I got some free coolie cups and T-Shirts with mine...Hell, you can't beat that.. :crossx:
You paid for those coolie cups and T-Shirts,trust me....... :crossx:

[River918]

You paid for those coolie cups and T-Shirts,trust me....... :crossx:
Believe me, I know.........

[wsuwrhr]

Ive been out of the Porsche market for some time now (Raised three sons) but I believe you can still get a nice 911 (are they still called that) for that price, AND ITS THE WHOLE CAR and pretty good quality at that. You telling me Mercury is that much higher quality, doubt that!! NSF
Read,,,I DO think Merc stuff is out there, 80k??
Brian

[Froggystyle]

A simple example of how boating prices are inflated.
I was at the LA Boat show looking to upgrade. I was speaking with one of the LHC based builders, had the boat all set up with every option I wanted. Total options/upgrades were in excess of $12k I think; my memory is a little fuzzy. :) Anyway, the salesman says if I leave him a $500 deposit that day he will throw in the options for FREE! So, if this particular builder can throw in $12k+ of options at no charge how much freaking money you think the builder was making on that boat to begin with?
All that means is that you had cut a deal that was $12K more than he would have cut if you had kept beating on him.
$12K in options is about 6K in cost BTW... The retail vs. wholesale markup on stuff like trailer options, audio systems, swimsteps, aqua ladders, bimini tops etc... is nearly 50% in most cases.
If you ever get more for your used car trade-in than you can sell it for... you are paying that much more for your new car. Money does not come from nowhere... and if you can't sell it for more... neither can they. Any time you get a great deal on a trade... you are likely taking a bath on either financing or the price of your new vehicle. Do the math.

[USCFAN]

All that means is that you had cut a deal that was $12K more than he would have cut if you had kept beating on him.
$12K in options is about 6K in cost BTW... The retail vs. wholesale markup on stuff like trailer options, audio systems, swimsteps, aqua ladders, bimini tops etc... is nearly 50% in most cases.
If you ever get more for your used car trade-in than you can sell it for... you are paying that much more for your new car. Money does not come from nowhere... and if you can't sell it for more... neither can they. Any time you get a great deal on a trade... you are likely taking a bath on either financing or the price of your new vehicle. Do the math.
Well said.........................

[Not So Fast]

I myself would never buy a new boat again. I have been looking at used boats lately and have seen the same boats for sale for over six months now. These are boats that are two years old with low hours that owners are trying to sell for half of what they paid new. I was looking at a 2004 33’ Eliminator Daytona with twin 525’S. The guy paid almost 300,000.00 before TTL and is asking 159,000.00 OBO. I have looked at the boat and it is mint with 92 hours on it, I would buy it right now but I need to sell mine before I can do so. After buying two new boats in the last five years I can say I will never buy new again.
I dont know about lower prices for used, at least in the deckboat market. When I bought mine in July 2004, I had been looking seriously for a used Conquest or Magic (thats all there was to choose from at that time) and I could not find one anywhere. Its a different story now with quite a few to chose from but I really think I could get close to what mine cost, minus the tax of course if I wanted to sell it, mainly because prices have increased and Deckboats seem to be holding thie value very well. Answer to question, YES BOATS COST TOO MUCH. NSF

[MagicMtnDan]

Salaries haven't gone up enough to support the growth in high-dollar auto, truck and boat sales. What is enabling these purchases is the jump in home prices and the subsequent rise in home equity loans.
With the increase in gasoline prices driving inflation, raw materials costs have been going up. Now that the real estate market is cooling off I expect that consumer purchasing power will soften meaning high-dollar boat sales will soften too.

[Biglue]

Salaries haven't gone up enough to support the growth in high-dollar auto, truck and boat sales. What is enabling these purchases is the jump in home prices and the subsequent rise in home equity loans.
With the increase in gasoline prices driving inflation, raw materials costs have been going up. Now that the real estate market is cooling off I expect that consumer purchasing power will soften meaning high-dollar boat sales will soften too.
Is this when you plan on buying a boat? :idea: :D

[Not So Fast]

Read,,,I DO think Merc stuff is out there, 80k??
Brian
gotcha, sorry. My point is that you can go buy a comparable Teague package and save bou-coup bucks and that is quality!! and its also high priced but better priced than Mercury. I know about R&D but come on, its still a motor and drive, $83,000 :idea: NSF

[RiverDave]

When Magic's Deckboat 1st came out (not that long ago 3 - 4 years?) They were offering some of the 1st ones to get them out there at less than 60K with an HO!! (56K if memory serves correctly) Then the price crept up to 70K a month afterwards, and shortly after that it jumped up to 100'ish K...
Your telling me Merc raised there prices by 30K in 4 years?
Well no they didn't, so now it becomes a supply and demand issue..
For awhile there you had to wait in line to buy one of those deck boats (didn't matter who made it, conquest magic etc..) so that drove the prices through the roof. Now the builders will build a boat and build it for showroom stock. It don't matter their still going to get 100K for it, regardless if the supply is outweighing demand. Sit on it for a few weeks and make 30K? Why not.. No point in discounting it if there's still a demand.
Now that the interest rates have come up though, I'd be willing to wager you see the price of boats atleast level off, and in some (most) cases they will take a decline for mfg's to stay alive. Nobody is buying boats right now. Or to phrase that better, not as many people are buying high dollar ticket items right now.
Used to be that you would see a "Pulled the Trigger" thread on here almost every other day awhile ago. when's the last time you've seen one? Maybe once every two to three weeks?
RD

[Kilrtoy]

gotcha, sorry. My point is that you can go buy a comparable Teague package and save bou-coup bucks and that is quality!! and its also high priced but better priced than Mercury. I know about R&D but come on, its still a motor and drive, $83,000 :idea: NSF
teague 700 with drive is 52K
Corrected

[RiverDave]

teague 700 with drive is 53K
And it's still a Bravo Based Drive.. That new Merc Drive looks bad ass, how it will hold up only time will tell, but it sure seems to be based more off a # 6 then a Bravo just by the aesthetics of it.
I haven't seen a cut away of it yet so I dunno. I know it uses a Tranny so it has gotta be way stronger then a bravo.
Between those 2 price tags all of a sudden the Merc package doesn't seem so unreasonable to me. In reality though, Teagues is over priced too (IMO) Good brand name though so they can command the respect and the $$$ that goes with it.
RD

[Kilrtoy]

I forgot the 5K for the stand off box, so it is 57K

[jbtrailerjim]

Now that the interest rates have come up though, I'd be willing to wager you see the price of boats atleast level off, and in some (most) cases they will take a decline for mfg's to stay alive. Nobody is buying boats right now. Or to phrase that better, not as many people are buying high dollar ticket items right now.
Used to be that you would see a "Pulled the Trigger" thread on here almost every other day awhile ago. when's the last time you've seen one? Maybe once every two to three weeks?
RD
I think you are right about boat sales slowing. I've got a good friend in the boat industry. He told me the other day that boat sales have slowed wayyyyy down and some of the custom builders are a little concerned.

[blown dough]

Everyone is just talking about parts and labor, but being self employed I know all to well the high cost of workers comp and liability. Both have tripled plus for most employers over the last two to three years and utilites have at least doubled. All part of the overhead which is on the rise each year.

[Kilrtoy]

Everyone is just talking about parts and labor, but being self employed I know all to well the high cost of workers comp and liability. Both have tripled plus for most employers over the last two to three years and utilites have at least doubled. All part of the overhead which is on the rise each year.
I thought ARNIE fixed all that

[Nord]

I hope the prices come down!!! When the buying of new boats slows down, I think some deals will be made, but I don't think the boats that are 100K+ will drop to 60 or 70k. Insurance rates might bring down the cost of cats pretty soon though........

[Nord]

I thought ARNIE fixed all that
NOPE!!!!!!!

[MOBrien]

teague 700 with drive is 53K
still an effing rip IMO. Don't think I'll ever buy new on pure principle of the issue. I agree the whole thing is out of hand. And it's not specific to the boat builders, but seemingly with everything these days. Pick-up trucks are now $40-60K loaded up? Ridiculous.

[blown dough]

I thought ARNIE fixed all that
He did a little so props to him for that but not much, we get ripped monthly for our two business's its crazy.

[jbtrailerjim]

I thought ARNIE fixed all that
He got the comp. rates down but they are still out of hand. Liability insurance? Not a f*cking chance. They are outrageous and continue to rise every year!

[rlj676]

Well, I can think of two companies whose cat business must be doing so well they can't send me price quotes. Appearantly these things are still selling themselves and don't require the work of any sales staff despite the high prices.

[hotlavey]

I think you are right about boat sales slowing. I've got a good friend in the boat industry. He told me the other day that boat sales have slowed wayyyyy down and some of the custom builders are a little concerned.
Lavey told me my boat new(mine is a '02) with the equipment I have on it would cost between $130-$140K. I have had it for sale for a few months now @$82,500 and have had no action. Judging from all the other boats for sale in the spam section that have not sold I think it's obvious things are really slow.

[Not So Fast]

teague 700 with drive is 52K
Corrected
Read first reply on this, Merc's new 700/drive package lists for $83,200.

[Kilrtoy]

Read first reply on this, Merc's new 700/drive package lists for $83,200.
gotcha, sorry. My point is that you can go buy a comparable Teague package and save bou-coup bucks and that is quality!! and its also high priced but better priced than Mercury. I know about R&D but come on, its still a motor and drive, $83,000 :idea: NSF
I simply gave you the price for the teague package

[acatitude]

I agree with all these price upgrades on boats and motors..... Guess my ole 2000 howard that is showroom cindition is a steal..
I spent under 17k to have Larry Peto build my blown 588, (used some of my existing parts) and I will stand with his motors over what the other builders want a fortune for... If your just buying a stock little motor maybe merc is ok but man they are pricy... and Teague also and I didnt want a production motor...or spend 50k more for a boat that said DCB on the side and was 10-15 mph slower....... like these guys that spend 60-70 grand on a roll bar boat that goes 52 mph...... :rolleyes: just my .02

[Froggystyle]

Judging from all the other boats for sale in the spam section that have not sold I think it's obvious things are really slow.
Dead around here... I thought our phone got disconnected.
For a company that just built the boat we built, I didn't expect in a million years to be looking for buyers for #2 and #3 right now. Let alone discounting to where we have them right now.
I understand the whole being leery of a new company and all, but we are trying to move the first couple of boats for basically what we have into them parts-wise and are finding no willing participants. Everyone who has ridden in it calls it their dream boat, and the answer to every question they have ever asked. Nicest boat they have ever been in etc... NOBODY seems to be in a purchase position right now. There are people selling cars to buy our boat, re-fiing homes etc... but still no sales. Good news for me is they aren't going and buying anyone elses either, so I am not losing sales but geez...
I figure we got the triple-whammy of rising interest rates, rising gas prices and new-company"itis" that is putting a crimp on us, but asking around for the last couple of weeks, it is across the board. I guess I don't feel too bad considering.

[riverroyal]

bad time for toys,everyones sitting on the money

[Froggystyle]

bad time for toys,everyones sitting on the money
No shit. I come out with this bitchin boat like "TA DAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!" and it was like the room was empty.
Talk about hitting the market at the wrong time... Five years of development and refinement only to open the doors for business into this BS...
Ah well... if it was easy everyone would be living their dream, right?

[Kilrtoy]

I agree with all these price upgrades on boats and motors..... Guess my ole 2000 howard that is showroom cindition is a steal..
I spent under 17k to have Larry Peto build my blown 588, (used some of my existing parts) and I will stand with his motors over what the other builders want a fortune for... If your just buying a stock little motor maybe merc is ok but man they are pricy... and Teague also and I didnt want a production motor...or spend 50k more for a boat that said DCB on the side and was 10-15 mph slower....... like these guys that spend 60-70 grand on a roll bar boat that goes 52 mph...... :rolleyes: just my .02
DID I understand this correctly, your 257 is running close to 130 with 800 HP

[DILLIGAF]

First guy that came out to see my boat bought it. I gave him a good deal on it but what is a couple of grand when you got a new one being delivered the next week. Maybe the used boats need to drop their price a bit. I sold mine for about 7K less than I bought mine for.
I also got what I condsider a good deal on the new 29. Sure, I could have worked it for a couple more grand but WTF! Got wat I wanted, in the timeframe that I was looking.
Overall, with the boats for sale not moving it has to have a ripple effect on the boat mfrs as SOME of them are looking to upgrade but want to move their current boat first. I think bottom line it comes down to RE slowing down. Just one mans opinion FWIW.

[riverracerx]

Only a couple of bites on my boat and it is a deal, with low hours. In fact Nordic went thru the whole thing and upgraded it just two years back. Buy a new one now for over 100K.
But then again, looking at new boats I don't think I really want to sell. :boxed:

[acatitude]

DID I understand this correctly, your 257 is running close to 130 with 800 HP
you better read it again, then look at some of the speeds of the dcb's in the spam section... no I didnt say that, you did. and its not a 257, thats the 1st clue I'll give ya :) and 83 grand or 52 grand or whatever it is for a merc or teague is pretty pricy, thats my point, I was agreeing with what most people say, so don't go getting your dcb panties all in a knot...

[Kilrtoy]

you better read it again, then look at some of the speeds of the dcb's in the spam section... no I didnt say that, you did. and its not a 257, thats the 1st clue I'll give ya :) and 83 grand or 52 grand or whatever it is for a merc or teague is pretty pricy, thats my point, I was agreeing with what most people say, so don't go getting your dcb panties all in a knot...
Well between the NSX, the 257 and the howard, I have no clue what you have or HP, so educate me....

[acatitude]

My Howard is in the spam section also, go bump it for me, lol.. at least it got you and charlies blood flowin again. Just sayin with the price of boats and motor packages that the 2 DCB's I see for sale that run 109-110 and are 105-127k makes my howard seem like a good deal. I have nothing against DCb's, great boat but I think overpriced, just as daytonas are. Ive ridden in my kids dcb 26 (twinmach26dcb) and I love the canopies, but not the price.......and I saw some quote on what you want for yours... not sure any 26 is worth that, the comparison was what you spend with teague for the 800 compared to what you can get elsewhere for less...you get what the market will bare and right now they are getting big big $$..

[Kilrtoy]

My Howard is in the spam section also, go bump it for me, lol.. at least it got you and charlies blood flowin again. Just sayin with the price of boats and motor packages that the 2 DCB's I see for sale that run 109-110 and are 105-127k makes my howard seem like a good deal. I have nothing against DCb's, great boat but I think overpriced, just as daytonas are. Ive ridden in my kids dcb 26 (twinmach26dcb) and I love the canopies, but not the price.......and I saw some quote on what you want for yours... not sure any 26 is worth that, the comparison was what you spend with teague for the 800 compared to what you can get elsewhere for less...you get what the market will bare and right now they are getting big big $$..
albeit everything is for sale, I have never listed my as for sale, I think you have me confused with TOBY at 155K. TMDCB got a smoking deal on Browns boat. and I agree the price of DCBs is alot, but Howards are the same price as a mach brand new. I will bump your howard, and only charly gets upset

[acatitude]

I might have got yours and tobies mixed up, they all look the same to me :rolleyes:

[moneypit]

Everything will sell for what people are willing to pay (just like the overpriced housing). A good deal is something that you thought was a good price at "that" time. Supply and demand thats all.
These boat builders are making a hell of a profit. Insurance costs havent gone up that much (if fact work comp has settled). The hourly wage in Havasu City hasnt sky rocketed either.
We will see alot of boat builders close the doors or sell their molds and take their cash and run. Or they will settle for lowering there price to what someone is willing to pay. There also will be a high influx of USED boats. The same people that buy a boat and never use it will have to sell once the economy changes. For alot of families, the first thing to go is toys... "Im getting married, gotta sell" or " im getting a divorce", or "I hardly use it" are all excuses that come to mind.
So if your wiling to pay those high prices for a bottle of phucking water, then your probably willing to buy that "expensive" boat.
Demand and supply, demand and supply...

[Charley]

Ah well... if it was easy everyone would be living their dream, right?
Like that Spirit Wes!

[riverracerx]

The other thing that will threaten boat prices is if they impose any more laws on the lakes. Especially a speed limit.
Although they can barely enforce pasties, so who is going to cover the entire lake and bust the speeders who are doing well over a buck. They would need air support. I doubt that would ever get funded.

[Not So Fast]

I might have got yours and tobies mixed up, they all look the same to me :rolleyes:
Uh-oh :D :D :D My original point was the astronomical prices of boats in general, period. Merc's new 700 SCi package $83,200, Teague's just as high quality maybe moreso, 700/drive package $52,000, every body needs to stand back and get a grip on reality JMO NSF

[HavasuDreamin']

I just read this entire thread and there were some great points, but nobody brought up bank financing. IMHO, prices on boats didn't start to go through the roof until you could get 10, 15, or even 20 year financing on them. If this isn't predatory lending, I don't know what is. Talk about setting people up for failure. Financing a rapidly depreciating asset over 20 years? :rolleyes: What happens in two years when they go to sell? Well, it has been fine so far because prices have been rising at unsustainable rates so secondary sales haven't been bad. But, the next couple of years will tell the tale. My guess is there will be a lot of bank repo's because the financing enabled people to "afford" more boat than they ever could have before. The boat became "just another payment." Now the $200K price tag doesn't look as bad when it is $20K down and $1,200/mo. The boat manufactures were not sitting there oblivious to this. They started selling payments just like everybody else and it just so happens that we live in a society that has decided living paycheck to paycheck is alright. Not for me, but to each their own.
HD

[jbtrailerjim]

The other thing that has raised prices on boats, is all of the "Bling" items on boats now. A lot of new boats now have billet this and billet that, huge stereo's, big power, and lots of attention to detail rigging. Things like this add to the cost of the boat. Look at a boat that was built 10 years ago. You didn't see tons of billet, the rigging was not as clean, and a lot did not have big power in them.
Hell, I remember my 95 Essex that I bought new for 25k and I thought it was a real nice ride back then. When I brought my new Ultra home in 2004 and I still had my Essex, I could not believe the difference in rigging between the two. The Ultra was by far a nicer rigged and built boat. I'm not slamming Essex. I think this is true for most custom built boats. The quality of boats has greatly improved over the years. All of those kind of improvements come with a price tag on them.

[beaverretriever]

Sort of on subjet.
I just sold my boat this week for 300.00 more than I paid for it new. :)

[CBadDad]

I just read this entire thread and there were some great points, but nobody brought up bank financing. IMHO, prices on boats didn't start to go through the roof until you could get 10, 15, or even 20 year financing on them. If this isn't predatory lending, I don't know what is. Talk about setting people up for failure. Financing a rapidly depreciating asset over 20 years? :rolleyes: What happens in two years when they go to sell? Well, it has been fine so far because prices have been rising at unsustainable rates so secondary sales haven't been bad. But, the next couple of years will tell the tale. My guess is there will be a lot of bank repo's because the financing enabled people to "afford" more boat than they ever could have before. The boat became "just another payment." Now the $200K price tag doesn't look as bad when it is $20K down and $1,200/mo. The boat manufactures were not sitting there oblivious to this. They started selling payments just like everybody else and it just so happens that we live in a society that has decided living paycheck to paycheck is alright. Not for me, but to each their own.
HD
There may be some merit to your point, and anything with a motor will depreciate initially. The same can be said for real estate. No one knows for sure what is going to happen, only time will tell. However, I am not going to sweat the financial industry as they are making a boat-load of money doin what they do.
At the same time with inflation being what it is (or will be), a boat that you paid for $100K last year will most likely sell for close to (if not more than) 100K in 2015 and 200K in 2025.

[ChumpChange]

Think of it this way. The boat builders are taking advantage of lower interest rates the same way that home owners are. You, as the buyer, are getting the same amount of boat, if you finance.
Look at the following payments:
$40,000 @ 10% for 15yrs = $429.84/mo.
$50,000 @ 5.5% for 15yrs =$408/mo.
I used 5.5% because that is the rate that I got on my boat when I bought it. If prices of boats go down, chances are because of higher interest rates. In the end, if you're financing, you'll end up paying the same. If you bought the boat for $40,000 when rates were 10% do you feel like you got a better deal? Only if you paid cash.
If the builders take advantage of this....more power to them. Nobody works for love.
I laugh at the people thinking they're going to wait until used prices drop before buying a boat.....unless you going to pay for it cash, you're going to end up paying the same amount for that boat in the long run.

[shagmebabe]

Guys....... Dont forget that people are in business for a profit,to grow a business and to provide for their family . Why would anyone put their ass on the line so they could be "Good Guys" and give away boats. Business is risky and more in CA than anywhere else in the US. If you dont want to pay the big dollar dont buy such a big ass boat. Dont blame the boat builder buy what you can afford.

[burtandnancy]

Some of you are missing the point when it comes to the motor/drive package such as the Merc 600 at $83,210. This is a marinized motor, drive package, gimble package with steering, electronics, power steering and much more. From that list price of $83,210 there is a discount to the distributor and a discount to the OEM. On top of that is a 1 year warranty, thats not cheap either. Another example is the 1075 Merc package at approximately $150,000 each (and who buys just one?). These are not just hopped up motors that you buy from a speed shop, these are MARINE motors. On top of that, all materials are up including glass resins (which is a petroleum product). I could go into R & D, engineering, labor, insurance, overhead and much more, that would get real boring. Just remember, you have expensive toys, shut up and go play with them...

[acatitude]

Uh-oh :D :D :D My original point was the astronomical prices of boats in general, period. Merc's new 700 SCi package $83,200, Teague's just as high quality maybe moreso, 700/drive package $52,000, every body needs to stand back and get a grip on reality JMO NSF
That was what I responded to NSF, there is no way I would pay those prices just because it says merc on it or teague. I priced apples to apples(as close as possible) before I got my new motor, The 2 mentioned above and 1 other west coast motor builder and I ended up at LARRYS ENGINE AND MARINE. I feel I got much more bang for my buck and less then 1/2 the cost, and If his motors are good enough for predator, they are surely good enough for my junk...and my boat is running awesome... not to say they wont break any time but I can do it twice for the dollars the others wanted..

[Brian]

This thread makes me appreciate my 4 yr old slug even more!
:D

[Mandelon]

At the same time with inflation being what it is (or will be), a boat that you paid for $100K last year will most likely sell for close to (if not more than) 100K in 2015 and 200K in 2025.
Sweet, so if I just hold on to my boat long enough it will be worth a fortune!!! :p

[Classic Daycruiser]

Sweet, so if I just hold on to my boat long enough it will be worth a fortune!!! :p
Join acbc.org and attend the Classic Boat Regatta when your boat is 20 years old, and it just might be!!!!! Good luck!!!!

[Fast Freddy]

The other thing that has raised prices on boats, is all of the "Bling" items on boats now. A lot of new boats now have billet this and billet that, huge stereo's, big power, and lots of attention to detail rigging. Things like this add to the cost of the boat. Look at a boat that was built 10 years ago. You didn't see tons of billet, the rigging was not as clean, and a lot did not have big power in them.
Hell, I remember my 95 Essex that I bought new for 25k and I thought it was a real nice ride back then. When I brought my new Ultra home in 2004 and I still had my Essex, I could not believe the difference in rigging between the two. The Ultra was by far a nicer rigged and built boat. I'm not slamming Essex. I think this is true for most custom built boats. The quality of boats has greatly improved over the years. All of those kind of improvements come with a price tag on them.
i agree with every thing you have said here but you must also consider that as boats get longer in length it seems to me that there is more of an attention to detail as a result of the price goin up. take a look at tigers yacht for example. "privacy" comes with a $20 million price tag and the lawsuit he has filed on his yacht builder is $50 million despite the fact that the attention to detail on this boat is greater than any boat on this planet.

[Fast Freddy]

I just read this entire thread and there were some great points, but nobody brought up bank financing. IMHO, prices on boats didn't start to go through the roof until you could get 10, 15, or even 20 year financing on them. If this isn't predatory lending, I don't know what is. Talk about setting people up for failure. Financing a rapidly depreciating asset over 20 years? :rolleyes: What happens in two years when they go to sell? Well, it has been fine so far because prices have been rising at unsustainable rates so secondary sales haven't been bad. But, the next couple of years will tell the tale. My guess is there will be a lot of bank repo's because the financing enabled people to "afford" more boat than they ever could have before. The boat became "just another payment." Now the $200K price tag doesn't look as bad when it is $20K down and $1,200/mo. The boat manufactures were not sitting there oblivious to this. They started selling payments just like everybody else and it just so happens that we live in a society that has decided living paycheck to paycheck is alright. Not for me, but to each their own.
HD
so true.......

[VanDeano]

I myself would never buy a new boat again. I have been looking at used boats lately and have seen the same boats for sale for over six months now. These are boats that are two years old with low hours that owners are trying to sell for half of what they paid new. I was looking at a 2004 33’ Eliminator Daytona with twin 525’S. The guy paid almost 300,000.00 before TTL and is asking 159,000.00 OBO. I have looked at the boat and it is mint with 92 hours on it, I would buy it right now but I need to sell mine before I can do so. After buying two new boats in the last five years I can say I will never buy new again.
Then I'll buy it from you in a couple years for $25,000 :p

[Not So Fast]

That was what I responded to NSF, there is no way I would pay those prices just because it says merc on it or teague. I priced apples to apples(as close as possible) before I got my new motor, The 2 mentioned above and 1 other west coast motor builder and I ended up at LARRYS ENGINE AND MARINE. I feel I got much more bang for my buck and less then 1/2 the cost, and If his motors are good enough for predator, they are surely good enough for my junk...and my boat is running awesome... not to say they wont break any time but I can do it twice for the dollars the others wanted..
Exactly my point, thank you! :D NSF

[JMC]

Some of you are missing the point when it comes to the motor/drive package such as the Merc 600 at $83,210. This is a marinized motor, drive package, gimble package with steering, electronics, power steering and much more. From that list price of $83,210 there is a discount to the distributor and a discount to the OEM. On top of that is a 1 year warranty, thats not cheap either. Another example is the 1075 Merc package at approximately $150,000 each (and who buys just one?). These are not just hopped up motors that you buy from a speed shop, these are MARINE motors. On top of that, all materials are up including glass resins (which is a petroleum product). I could go into R & D, engineering, labor, insurance, overhead and much more, that would get real boring. Just remember, you have expensive toys, shut up and go play with them...
Anyone that would cough up 83k for a 600sc a XR drive and the assembly needs their head examined. Merc has been ganking people for years.

[Fast Freddy]

Anyone that would cough up 83k for a 600sc a XR drive and the assembly needs their head examined. Merc has been ganking people for years.
man that is a major rip off. bend over and take it up the butt with no lube. seriously i think for this kind of $$$ you could get both of predators engines

[dirty old man]

Then, there are tens of thousands of us who buy this stuff. Do you think Brunswick is going broke or something? Do you think your new pick up truck should cost 40k plus? A gallon of milk for $2.50, 16 oz of water for $1.29. Wake up, theres no free lunch any more

[2Driver]

I could be mistaken but, over time it has always seemed like a very nice desirable boat costs about the same as a nice respectable one year salary.

[3 daytona`s]

Some of you are missing the point when it comes to the motor/drive package such as the Merc 600 at $83,210. This is a marinized motor, drive package, gimble package with steering, electronics, power steering and much more. From that list price of $83,210 there is a discount to the distributor and a discount to the OEM. On top of that is a 1 year warranty, thats not cheap either. Another example is the 1075 Merc package at approximately $150,000 each (and who buys just one?). These are not just hopped up motors that you buy from a speed shop, these are MARINE motors. On top of that, all materials are up including glass resins (which is a petroleum product). I could go into R & D, engineering, labor, insurance, overhead and much more, that would get real boring. Just remember, you have expensive toys, shut up and go play with them...
Marinized Motor well that explains it all!! I`ve had my laugh for the day :)

[JMC]

Then, there are tens of thousands of us who buy this stuff. Do you think Brunswick is going broke or something? Do you think your new pick up truck should cost 40k plus? A gallon of milk for $2.50, 16 oz of water for $1.29. Wake up, theres no free lunch any more
Dirtyoldman, you may enjoy burning money but I refuse to. When you can buy 650 horse N/A engines with 2 year warranties for 13k all day long, why would you go for the Merc? That would leave you an aweful lot of money towards a slightly used #6 that can be had in the 25-30k range. For 80k you can get 1200 horses on pump gas and a #6. Now who needs to wake up?
Like I said, Merc has been ganking people for years. The prices on all the parts are silly. Price a basic plastic outdrive reservoir and tell me "thats a deal" or even, "thats reasonable". Merc was losing skegs on their performance outboard sportmasters left and right and facing lawsuits. They actually had to spend some more money and time to correct the castings and almost tripled the price for the consumer now. Im glad to see the mom and pop engine builders out their not to mention the bigger companies like Ilmor offering other alternatives for us.

[dirty old man]

JMC, when I said "us" I was referring to the boat buying public in general. When you look at the size of Merc, they must be doing something right. I'm a hard nosed capitalist and I believe there is nothing wrong with a distribution system and making a profit (within reason). And I have yet to see a 650 hp motor with a two year warrantee for $13,000 that will run as hard as I use them. I know various motor builder such as Teague, Pfaff, Larry, GT, KE and others, but have not seen any deal like you indicate. Even a crate motor converted to true marine use would exceed that