Merc HP600 vs Ilmor MV10-625 ......

[RiverToysJas]

This is sort of a spin off of the New boat prices thread... (http://www2.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119757&page=1&pp=25)
Anyone read the article in the new issue of "Speedboat" magazine (July 2006, pg 48)? Pretty interesting!
Talks about how comparable both motors are to each other, with about the only differance being the torque curve. Interestingly though, they mention that Eliminator charges the same amount of money for either motor in a given model, but DCB charges 8 Grand more for the v-10 upgrade over the Merc's, in their F-29 (pg 50, in Paragraph beginning "Big Bucks").
The base price of the V-10 is 5K less than the Merc 600 (see complete details from article below), but Outerlimits also charges 8K more for the V-10's, because rigging takes more time.
Per the article:
Each price provided with the optional $6,437 ITS system.
The HP600 SCi Bravo One Sportmaster retails for $64,673. (600hp at the prop)
The Ilmor MV10-625 w/ TCM XR Platinum Sportmaster drive is $59,347. (625hp at the crank)
Thought I'd share, since everyone was interested price and profit.
If I was doing a Merc 600, I'd consider the V-10 for sure. I think I would still lean towards the Merc's, but perhaps my softspoken neighbor up the road can convince me otherwise. ;)
RTJas :D

[Charley]

This is sort of a spin off of the New boat prices thread... (http://www2.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119757&page=1&pp=25)
Anyone read the article in the new issue of "Speedboat" magazine (July 2006, pg 48)? Pretty interesting!
Talks about how comparable both motors are to each other, with about the only differance being the torque curve. Interestingly though, they mention that Eliminator charges the same amount of money for either motor in a given model, but DCB charges 8 Grand more for the v-10 upgrade over the Merc's, in their F-29 (pg 50, in Paragraph beginning "Big Bucks").
The base price of the V-10 is 5K less than the Merc 600 (see complete details from article below), but Outerlimits also charges 8K more for the V-10's, because rigging takes more time.
Per the article:
Each price provided with the optional $6,437 ITS system.
The HP600 SCi Bravo One Sportmaster retails for $64,673. (600hp at the prop)
The Ilmor MV10-625 w/ TCM XR Platinum Sportmaster drive is $59,347.
Thought I'd share, since everyone was interested price and profit.
If I was doing a Merc 600, I'd consider the V-10 for sure. I think I would still lean towards the Merc's, but perhaps my softspoken neighbor up the road can convince me otherwise. ;)
RTJas :D
Even Though I have had 2 issues, 1 small & 1 large I still have confidence in the MV10... I glanced at that article the other day and went looking for it last night but couldn't find the magazine. Does it compare the two on fuel economy? One thing I was pleasantly surprised about my ilmors was the fuel economy I seemed to be getting quite a few hours out of my tanks and I liked that alot. The motors feel peppy, idle good around the dock and I have had excellent service when it comes to mfr reaction to my issues.
One small note- the MV10's have an idle circuit that pops them up to 2000-ish RPMs for about 3 seconds when first started... I have caught myself twice in need of a fast start and throw it in gear to get my boat moving away from "something" ..When you put a boat in gear at 2000 rpms you tend to cringe! I'm gonna learn to think ahead and try not to do that but I thought it was worth mentioning!

[RiverToysJas]

That's good info Charley, but I was thinking maybe we could just go for a ride sometime! :crossx:
Yes, the article does compare fuel flows through each motor. Merc was better up to 5,000RPM, but the Ilmor got more efficient at topend. Ilmor flowed 96.8gph at 5900rpm, and the Marc flowed 99.9gph at 5350rpm.
RTJas :D

[INSman]

I recall the article saying that fuel economy was better on the Ilmor, but only near or at WOT. The one advantage to the Merc is all the electronics and Smartcraft. Can't really go wrong either way.
Now throw the new Merc 700 with NXT drive into the picture, whole other story but also a whole other price tag :220v:

[Charley]

That's good info Charley, but I was thinking maybe we could just go for a ride sometime! :crossx:
Yes, the article does compare fuel flows through each motor. Merc was better up to 5,000RPM, but the Ilmor got more efficient at topend. Ilmor flowed 96.8gph at 5900rpm, and the Marc flowed 99.9gph at 5350rpm.
RTJas :D
Oh now that I have a boat you wont ignore me on the river????
Do I need to post that series of pictures again from when i was in my pontoon and almost got Blind "Laveyed" over???
Jus teasin, Ride next time were both out, NP!

[Charley]

Now throw the new Merc 700 with NXT drive into the picture, whole other story but also a whole other price tag :220v:
To be honest I probably would have very seriously considered that option, I regret not doing the 6's, just couldn't come up with the dough :(

[INSman]

To be honest I probably would have very seriously considered that option, I regret not doing the 6's, just couldn't come up with the dough :(
The 700 with the NXT (mini 6) would have been great, but very pricey, may have got Bling of your ass for just a while longer :)

[RiverToysJas]

Oh now that I have a boat you wont ignore me on the river????
Do I need to post that series of pictures again from when i was in my pontoon and almost got Blind "Laveyed" over???
It's true! The LAST place I'd look for Big flashy boat having, monster truck drivin', DCB pimpin' Charley is flowtin' through the low rent district of Needles (which sux BTW) on old pontoon boat! http://op6c.com/forums/html/emoticons/pirate.gif LOL! :D
RTJas :D

[Charley]

The 700 with the NXT (mini 6) would have been great, but very pricey, may have got Bling of your ass for just a while longer :)
Oh I think yer right and Bling "off" yer ass is a good thing ;)
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/38boink.jpg
It's true! The LAST place I'd look for Big flashy boat having, monster truck drivin', DCB pimpin' Charley is flowtin' through the low rent district of Needles (which sux BTW) on old pontoon boat! http://op6c.com/forums/html/emoticons/pirate.gif LOL! :D
RTJas :D
LOL... Old pontoons rule!!! mines for sale BTW ;)

[Dave C]

daaammnnnn... I'll take neither.....
T
Per the article:
Each price provided with the optional $6,437 ITS system.
The HP600 SCi Bravo One Sportmaster retails for $64,673. (600hp at the prop)
The Ilmor MV10-625 w/ TCM XR Platinum Sportmaster drive is $59,347. (625hp at the crank)
RTJas :D

[prosthogod]

Why would you spend that $$$, when you can have a Larry Peto 650hp EFI motor with an Imco extreme drive installed for ~38-39K

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Why would you spend that $$$, when you can have a Larry Peto 650hp EFI motor with an Imco extreme drive installed for ~38-39K
I was going to post the exact same thing. Granted with Merc and Ilmor you get the big company backing for issues and maybe a little bit better luck on service availability but still those prices are nuts!

[INSman]

I was going to post the exact same thing. Granted with Merc and Ilmor you get the big company backing for issues and maybe a little bit better luck on service availability but still those prices are nuts!
The prices are admitedly nuts, but it is all relative. If Merc couldn't consistently get those prices, they would have been out of business decades ago. There is certainly something to be said with big company backing, warranty, servicability, reliability and such that goes all the way down to their raw material suppliers.
These companies have very strict standards, very tight controls, highly regulated procedures, redundant QA and QC and some even have ISO or QS 9000 or 9000 certifications that are not met or needed by these small shops.

[Charley]

#1 Those are retail prices, no one should pay that
#2 I love Larry Peto, but the boat will be more viable in the resale market with either of the other two.
#3 The R&D in the Merc and Ilmor pkgs is just more extensive, and that's no slam on a peto Motor
#4 the Ilmor is fuel injected and the Merc is blown and injected... apples and oranges to Larrys single carb setup

[ChumpChange]

The V10 motor just sounds cool. There's something to be said about that. Pay for the sound.

[prosthogod]

#1 Those are retail prices, no one should pay that
#2 I love Larry Peto, but the boat will be more viable in the resale market with either of the other two.
#3 The R&D in the Merc and Ilmor pkgs is just more extensive, and that's no slam on a peto Motor
#4 the Ilmor is fuel injected and the Merc is blown and injected... apples and oranges to Larrys single carb setup
Just to correct you, I have a 650hp EFI motor from Larry. He does alot of EFI motors. In fact we just lake tested my friends 580block whipledEFI(dynoed at870hp and over900Torque) Very sweet. That was 33K, try getting an efimerc 900hp for that.

[Dave C]

The responses to prosthogod points are hilarious. Merc motors are pieces of junk. All of them.
First of all the Larry Peto motors use a much higher quality of parts and workmanship then that of Merc. Most of Merc's stuff is stock GM production garbage.
I have built several GM Gen VI's over the years and I will not do it again. EVER.
Now the 502 (GEN VI) has some pretty decent garbage in it that is perfectly suitable for this application but its still garbage nonetheless.
Peto's motors are custom pieces and most of the parts used are VASTLY superior to the quality of the stock GM garbage.
Anyone who thinks that a GM/Merc motor DESERVES a higher resale value should have their friggen head checked. (note, I didn't say they WOULDN'T get it)
The bottom line is the Peto motor is higher quality. So if the market gives a higher resale value to the Merc motor then boating consumers don't know what they are talking about.... :mad:

[prosthogod]

The responses to prosthogod points are hilarious. Merc motors are pieces of junk. All of them.
First of all the Larry Peto motors use a much higher quality of parts and workmanship then that of Merc. Most of Merc's stuff is stock GM production garbage.
I have built several GM Gen VI's over the years and I will not do it again. EVER.
Now the 502 (GEN VI) has some pretty decent garbage in it that is perfectly suitable for this application but its still garbage nonetheless.
Peto's motors are custom pieces and most of the parts used are VASTLY superior to the quality of the stock GM garbage.
Anyone who thinks that a GM/Merc motor DESERVES a higher resale value should have their friggen head checked. (note, I didn't say they WOULDN'T get it)
The bottom line is the Peto motor is higher quality. So if the market gives a higher resale value to the Merc motor then boating consumers don't know what they are talking about.... :mad:
At least there are 2 people out there that have a brain. Nicely stated.

[Dave C]

Oh sure you say that now. But where were you to save me from making a mistake when I had a brain fart and purchased my 496HO.... ;) :cry: :cry: now I'm stuck with it and f-cked myself... :cry: :cry:
Anyway the bottom line is Merc has some damn good marketing..... ya thats about it ;) ;) ......
At least there are 2 people out there that have a brain. Nicely stated.

[Beer-30]

But where were you to save me from making a mistake when I had a brain fart and purchased my 496HO.... ;) :cry: :cry: now I'm stuck with it and f-cked myself... :cry: :cry:
What? No you're not. Everyone has 3 mortgages now, didn't you know? :)

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Larrys Engine and Marine (http://www.larrysengine.com/engine_580TKM.htm) 675 HP, 700 lbs of torque $26,750 with EFI and CMI exhaust manifold. Have no clue on installation costs.

[Dave C]

no kidding, thats a no brainer.... ;) ;)
I'm screwed cuz I can't do the ol' motor switch-a-roo cuz now the wife likes the slow ass stock POS motor. :cry: :cry: I may have to sell the whole damn boat and buy a new one, just this time with the correct motor installed ;) ;)
What? No you're not. Everyone has 3 mortgages now,
didn't you know? :)

[Dave C]

Peto put some good looking stuff in there..
Dart block and heads, JE Pistons, 4340 crank, 4340 hbeam rods, inconel valves, canton pan..... TOP shelf parts!!!!!
Nice piece.
Larrys Engine and Marine (http://www.larrysengine.com/engine_580TKM.htm) 675 HP, 700 lbs of torque $26,750 with EFI and CMI exhaust manifold. Have no clue on installation costs.

[djunkie]

So if the market gives a higher resale value to the Merc motor then boating consumers don't know what they are talking about.... :mad:
I willing to guess that most don't know. Thats why they go with the mercruiser power cause thats all they know about.

[redi4fun]

Please give your thoughts.....
http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119928 :) :)

[Dave C]

no wonder because thats all they friggen sell around here :cry: .... If it wasn't for Teague and Ilmor EVERYONE would have a Merc motor. :cry:
I willing to guess that most don't know. Thats why they go with the mercruiser power cause thats all they know about.

[XTRM22]

Just to correct you, I have a 650hp EFI motor from Larry. He does alot of EFI motors. In fact we just lake tested my friends 580block whipledEFI(dynoed at870hp and over900Torque) Very sweet. That was 33K, try getting an efimerc 900hp for that.
I agree with you and DaveC, I need to get a few more hours on my 454 (save a few more dollars) then I'll have Larry go through it, and I expect the only merc parts left will be the block, and the accessories. CHarley's 29 had 2 of Larry's first 588 package motors and then they were single carb 625-650 hp. I know I was there when he dyno'd em and I delivered them to DCB. Merc, Teague and Ilmor all spend big money on marketting, Larry Pedo builds motors. Only 2 stickers in the back window of my Truck, DCB and Larry's Engine and Marine "The Evil Toymaker"
Chuck

[Dave C]

when will Charley learn how to cheerlead. I wouldn't buy a DCB for all the damn kool-aid in the world but if it had a Peto motor in it.... MAYBE ;) ;).... LOL
I Only 2 stickers in the back window of my Truck, DCB and Larry's Engine and Marine "The Evil Toymaker"
Chuck

[steet]

All the engine packages are expensive, but I would prefer the Ilmor, because of the warranty. They do not give you the run-around. Also, if you purchase the 625 package you can trade them in if you want to upgrade to the next generation of engines. I did this with my early 550's. Lets see Merc do that. Try trading in a pair of 600's for their new 700's and they will still be laughing.
I understand the new 700 Ilmors will debut in either Ft.Lauderdale boat show or definitely in Miami. 1 Year warranty and still naturally aspirated EFI.

[INSman]

All the engine packages are expensive, but I would prefer the Ilmor, because of the warranty. They do not give you the run-around. Also, if you purchase the 625 package you can trade them in if you want to upgrade to the next generation of engines. I did this with my early 550's. Lets see Merc do that. Try trading in a pair of 600's for their new 700's and they will still be laughing.
I understand the new 700 Ilmors will debut in either Ft.Lauderdale boat show or definitely in Miami. 1 Year warranty and still naturally aspirated EFI.
700 Ilmors would be SWEET !!!!!!!!!!!!
I bettter start building my new boat in my head here pretty soon :idea: