Are Edlebrock Performer 455 Olds heads worth the $$$

[1899]

I just got the papers on what has been done to the blown-up Olds 455 thats in the boat i just got. I tried to crank the motor, it still runs but is making a slight low-pitch squeaking noise. (not good, but kind of expected)
Looking at the recipts, So far, been rebuilt atleast twice, it looks like it has been bored .30, Crankshaft ground 020 R 020M. It has a Main and head stud kit, and has the following parts:
Edelbrock Performer 455 Olds Manifold - 2151
Holly 800CFM Marine Carb. 4011
Speed-Pro Power Forged Pistons (.30) TRW-L2323F30
COMP CAMS 280H MAGNUM CAM 42-231-4
(No indication of any special rods installed.)
Now, I have a feeling Im going to have to build up a junkyard motor and Im going to try to salvage these parts for it, but it looks like the only thing he didnt get was the 455 Performer heads.
Edelbrock heads link (http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=partdetail.asp&autofilter=1&part=EDL%2D60519&N=4294908158+4294840139+4294890852+4294867081&autoview=sku)
Do you think these are worth the $$$ or keep the stock heads? Im going to start tearing down the motor tommorow. Also, is that a good cam? Any other suggestions?

[Old Guy]

I like mine. I have pretty much the same setup except the cam. I don't know what you got there. I'm running 10.25:1 compression and 91 octane gas. With log exhaust system, it makes about 470 hp.

[YeLLowBoaT]

If you want to make big power then Yes. If your happy wiith about 450 ish then no.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Take that crank and throw it as far as you can. I would never un a 20/20 crank. 10/10 is my personal limit. Other than that you have some great parts there;) Should be a great mill when your done;)
396

[Taylorman]

Take that crank and throw it as far as you can. I would never un a 20/20 crank. 10/10 is my personal limit. Other than that you have some great parts there;) Should be a great mill when your done;)
396
Funny, i guess im cheap. My crank is .030 and .040. I cant remember which is which though. No problems yet.

[Devilman]

Funny, i guess im cheap. My crank is .030 and .040. I cant remember which is which though. No problems yet.
From what I seen, it runs pretty friggin good, too!

[Sleek-Jet]

Take that crank and throw it as far as you can. I would never un a 20/20 crank. 10/10 is my personal limit. Other than that you have some great parts there;) Should be a great mill when your done;)
396
Why??? Old school thought was bigger journals were better, but the smaller journal slows down bearing speed considerably. Lot's of high HP builders are running 30/30 cranks and the like. I'd have the crank magnafluxed and if it test ok, go a head and run it.
I'd also take a look at that junk-yard motor. It might have a steel crank in it, depending on what car it came out of. You never know, you could get lucky.
As far as the heads go, what heads to you have now?? Look on the left hand side of the head and there will be a large letter cast in the head next to the spark plug hole. What does it say??? C, G, K, Ka????

[Wet Dream]

A good set of worked over "C" heads flow as good as or better than the Edelbrocks

[Taylorman]

A good set of worked over "C" heads flow as good as or better than the Edelbrocks
But aluminum is soooooooooooo pretty.

[V1800J]

I remember reading a tech article somewhere that one of the RPM limiting factors on OLDS was the large size main journals because it builds up so much heat at higher RPM's. Maybe by turning them down, you can decrease the surface area somewhat, thus reducing heat. If you stick with the olds, I would most definately get a 10 quart oil pan, main restricters (from Mondello) and a oil cooler. Taylorman seems to be doing fine with his cut down crank.

[V1800J]

Sorry, I did'nt mean main restrictors, but rather cam restrictors that sends more oil to the mains.

[Taylorman]

Sorry, I did'nt mean main restrictors, but rather cam restrictors that sends more oil to the mains.
The main restrictors and oil resticted cam bearings do the same thing, that is, slow the oil down going to the top of the motor. Oil restricted push rods are also a good idea. Do yourself a favor and don't deal with Mondello, bad customer service. There are many other Olds specialists out there. I have been dealing with John or Dick at www.rocketracingperformance.com. They are familiar with Olds motors in jet boats.

[HotDogz]

Edelbrock heads flow better out of the box than iron heads ever will even with extensive porting done to them. Iron BB Olds heads flow like a SBC head will. Want to make real power with an Olds, ya need the Edelbrocks. :crossx:

[Taylorman]

Actually they flow 268 cfm intake and 188 exhaust out of the box at .600. Their are some guys porting C heads that are flowing 275/206 at .600. There are some aluminum heads out now that flow way more than the Edelbrocks. Bulldogs, Rocket Racing heads, Knowltons. Check this out.
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm#Olds

[HotDogz]

The Knowlton Intake and Head combo are said to flow 350cfm @.600 lift. Dont know how much tho.
Knowlton (http://www.mondellotwister.com/CylinderHeads.htm)

[Taylorman]

The Knowlton Intake and Head combo are said to flow 350cfm @.600 lift. Dont know how much tho.
Knowlton (http://www.mondellotwister.com/CylinderHeads.htm)
If they do flow that much, that will be awesome. To put that into perspective, AFR 315 BBC heads flow 348 at .600. Pretty good for Olds heads.

[HotDogz]

Yeah but I'm willing to bet the cost would be around $4000 at least for the package. Comes port matched and gasket matched tho. Maybe Santa will be nice to me this year. :rolleyes:

[YeLLowBoaT]

350 cfm is a lot of air...I really don't see a "jet boat" motor using that much. lets not forget that the motor can only use so much air...Flow rates are not every thing.

[Taylorman]

350 cfm is a lot of air...I really don't see a "jet boat" motor using that much. lets not forget that the motor can only use so much air...Flow rates are not every thing.
Your right about that.

[1899]

Ok, the junkyard motor has "G" Heads, Guess thats grocery getter heads. Havent checked on the bown up motor yet. I had no idea heads made that big of a difference in HP. Like bolt-on power. So if i get these hi-performance heads, am I stuck with Hi octane gas?
Also, What kind of intake manifold are you guys running? I have the Performer Olds 455 #2151 as I mentioned, but Edelbrocks website says the Performer RPM heads require Manifold #7111. If thats true I cant upgrade heads without throwing away my manifold?
And do you think I should stick with the stock rods?

[Squirtcha?]

A good set of worked over "C" heads flow as good as or better than the Edelbrocks
There's no getting around the 70+ pounds of additional weight of the irons though.

[Taylorman]

Ok, the junkyard motor has "G" Heads, Guess thats grocery getter heads. Havent checked on the bown up motor yet. I had no idea heads made that big of a difference in HP. Like bolt-on power. So if i get these hi-performance heads, am I stuck with Hi octane gas?
Also, What kind of intake manifold are you guys running? I have the Performer Olds 455 #2151 as I mentioned, but Edelbrocks website says the Performer RPM heads require Manifold #7111. If thats true I cant upgrade heads without throwing away my manifold?
And do you think I should stick with the stock rods?
If you buy Edelbrock heads you should at least have the torquer manifold. Stock rods are fine for the power you'll be making. Gas depends on your compression. Bump up your compression to 10:1 and run 91 octane gas and you'll be fine.

[1899]

OK, I just checked the motor thats in the boat. It has K heads on it. I didnt see that on the chart. Can you tell me about these K heads? Good or bad?
EDIT: its K with a little "a" near them.

[HotDogz]

ID/ Use Casting
Code Year(s) CID CCs Number Notes
A '65 400 80 383821 Unique 3/8" stud and nut rocker
425 mounting, using a 3-piece rocker
pivot assembly; all except irrigation
B '65 400 80 383821 Later '65 heads. Some use 3-piece
B '65 425 rocker pivot asssembly.
B '66 400 80 389395 Toro's and 442's got the big [2.072"]
B '66 425 valves. Some use 3-piece rocker pivot
asssembly. "-1" after the casting number
on all B heads after April 21, 1966.
C '67 - '69 425 80 394548 A/C '68 H/O's. Toro's and 442's got big.
455 valves. Rumored to flow the best of all BB
heads. Can still be found.
CA Very small ~3/8" ID lettering.
D* ' 68 - '69 400 69.75 400370 All W-30. Non A/C '68 H/O's. All '69 H/O's.
All big-valve.
455 69.75 400370
DA
E '68 - '70 455 77,80 403686 455's in general, with 442/Toro's
having big valves.
F* '70 455 80 404438 W-30's. All big-valve units.
G '71 455 80 409100 Generic 455 use, big valves in the
usual applications.
Ga '72 455 80 409100 W-30's, manual 442's used big valves.
H* '71 455 80 409160 W-30's. Big Valve units.
J '73 - '76 455 80,82 411783 All 445's. 'Smog heads',
restrictive exhaust valve pockets.
No big valve units.
K** 455 80 413191
Ka** '73 - '76 455 80 413191 Marine, irrigation, industrial, W-30/Toro,
442 4-speed replacement head. Most were
big valve units.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Funny, i guess im cheap. My crank is .030 and .040. I cant remember which is which though. No problems yet.
I know that your motor runs great! I personally would never run anything under 10/10. I just imagine the crank going through the floor when it snaps :cry: :cry: :cry: Thats why I run std or 10/10. I have had an olds and it ran great. I just did my homework like you kevin;)

[MACHINEHEAD]

I had heard that the perf. cam bearings come with a smaller hole than they used too. Not sure. 230/236xe hyd. w/ e-head made about 475 w/performer and I think went up to almost 495 w/torquer. Is that enough? Definetly step up the cam as that XE comp peaked at about 5100. I always have to look back at all those 455 olds jets running around that are bullet proof. Why is that? Maybe because they didnt make enough power to hurt themselves.Straping on these E-heads/cam and the 120-150 hp that goes with them shouldnt be taken lightly. Consult somebody whom has blown up a few but now has a hard runner! And the journals are still big even at 30/30!

[maxwedge]

There's no getting around the 70+ pounds of additional weight of the irons though.
Sure there is, I just leave the dog at home. In fact, if I leave the dog, the wife, toys, friends, and the anchor at home, it feels just like I did the whole Mondello package with a set of edelbrock heads, only I still have gas and beer money. LOL :)

[1899]

Cool! Im almost fininshed tearing down the junkyard block. Its sceduled to go to the machine shop on Monday to do 30 over on the block and cleaning. Anything I should tell the shop to do or check?
Heres my list of stuff from Summit for the rebuild. Did i miss anything?
Part # Item
CLE-MS804P
Main Bearings, P Series, 1/2 Groove, Standard Size, Tri Metal, Oldsmobile V8,
$49.88
FEM-1234M
Cam Bearings, Direct Replacement, Tin-Based Babbit, B-100, Oldsmobile, Kit
$31.69
FEM-3345P-Rod Bearing, Standard Size, Tri Metal, Oldsmobile, V8, Each
$10.99
SES-7-60-08-017-Oil Pump and Pickup Assembly, High-Volume, Oldsmobile,
$49.95
SLP-260-1008-Full Gasket Set, Oldsmobile V8, Set
$52.39
SLP-E-243K030-Piston Rings, Moly, 4.155 in. Bore, 5/64 in., 5/64 in., 3/16 in.
$46.95
Sub Total: $241.85
You wont belive what happned to the Carb! I was trying to crank the boat and I looked down in the carb and the fuel is pouring in the intake on top of the 4 butterflies like a sink! The guy had a fuel pump on the boat that looks like a red ignition coil. Now the motor is hydrolocked with fuel and comming out of the exaust header drains! What could be causing the carb to not seal out the fuel?

[1975sleekcraft]

the float in the carb is stuck open. sounds like you have an electric fuel pump.
someone might correct me if i am wrong but they are not coastgard approved.
anyway i see alot of standard sizes on those parts listed-when your done at the
machine shop she wont be standard.
you definetly need oil restricters
i had my rods channelled on the (big end) both sides top and bottom.
mondellos has a tech article on doing this.
if you cant do this i would get the mondellos rods with this already done.
arp bolts for sure.
10 quart oil pan too.

[1975sleekcraft]

click on "search"
type in "455 guys engine buildup"
click on the thread
these guys built a sweet motor !!!!!!!!!!
they take you step by step !!!!!!!!!!!!

[1899]

Yea, I saw his engine, cool video too. I have a head and Stud kit on the damaged motor, if I can get them out, ill transfer them to the new motor.
As for the oiling problem, Im thinking of drilling a hole in each valve cover and running a line down to a hole in the front of the oil pan. I kinda like the idea of too much oil :)

[Glencoe MiniDay]

As for the crank issue the wall thickness of the crank is the determining factor as to the desired undersizing of the journal dia.
Olds are known to have minimal wall thickness in these areas.
Also Olds have A very large cylinder bank angle that puts alot of stress on the rotational assembly as far as the inertia of this assembly is causes alot of stress on the crank.
The heads are worth the money by the time you rebuild the heads.
Valves
Springs
retainers
locks
Seats
positive seals
Screw in studs
Guide plates
filling the crossovers
Machining the pads for the plates
turning the guides for the positive seals.
Versus the 1700 bucks for the Ede.
And they are pretty too.