Citgo, there goes the competition

[Poster X]

If you haven't noticed yet, gas prices are on the rise again. Slowly, but definitely surely. Next to the Middle East, Venezuela is our largest source for fossil fuels. It's also no secret Chavez has been this administrations most vocal and vitriolic opponent. Citgos excuse is feeble at best for shutting down their American operations. Their refinery alone is one of the largest and most modern on the Gulf Coast.
So, me being the conspiratorial hare to your blase everything will work out like it's supposed to tortoise... I think something is afoot? Certainly more than what is being let on.
Without trade balanced by fair competition there is NOTHING to stop the juggernaut of oil price exploitation we are witnessing.

[Old Texan]

It was announced today Chavez is uping exports to china from 168K barrels per day to 300K.
China has increased their consumption something like 200% each year for the last 4. Throw India's usage into the equation and global demand is growing astronomically. Like it or not it's a global economy and the USA is just a player like everyone else. We aren't in a position to dictate to others and capitalism drives it all.
Buy low sell high, everyone is catching on.
I hear what you're saying and I don't like it but a solution isn't apparent without some serious trade talks. Problem is getting all our players to work in stride to deal with their players. We need more businessmen and less politicians making the hard calls.

[Blown 472]

It was announced today Chavez is uping exports to china from 168K barrels per day to 300K.
China has increased their consumption something like 200% each year for the last 4. Throw India's usage into the equation and global demand is growing astronomically. Like it or not it's a global economy and the USA is just a player like everyone else. We aren't in a position to dictate to others and capitalism drives it all.
Buy low sell high, everyone is catching on.
I hear what you're saying and I don't like it but a solution isn't apparent without some serious trade talks. Problem is getting all our players to work in stride to deal with their players. We need more businessmen and less politicians making the hard calls.
What we need to do is produce our own and tell the ****ing bark eaters to go pound sand. Or convert to ethenol and tell the world to **** off.

[Steve 1]

We have plenty of our own Oil just get the tree Fags out of the way.

[Old Texan]

Something amiss in the heavens, the 4 of us all pretty much in agreement? Who'd a thunk..... :)
Now if we could just get some of our idiot pols to wake the f--- up.

[Poster X]

The "tree huggers" aren't putting a dent in American production. Saying anything less is just uninformed. It's a fact that even the oil industry admits the cost of Alaskan wilderness exploration far exceeds the value of any refineable oil in the region. Best case scenario is a multitrillion dollar fiasco that would take 20 years to get into production and would only affect annual consumption by 4%.

[Steve 1]

Who in the Hell said anything about Alaska????????

[Poster X]

Pick a spot, you cannot produce evidence tree huggers are preventing drilling anywhere in the United States that is holding up a major oil basin. I could give a damn about the white hooded spotted owl or the flying squirrel but just arbitrarily spouting off a sound byte like it means something kinda gets in my craw.
ps..I changed my mind. I like flying squirrels better than most people.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

The "tree huggers" aren't putting a dent in American production. Saying anything less is just uninformed.
Talk about uninformed!!!!
ANWAR,
The Gulf Of Mexico,
Coast of California,
Coast of Florida,
There are all manner of on and off-shore locations the US posesses that have oil reserves under them but the environmental groups have for 30 years succeeded in stopping all new production facilities. They have also succeeded in stopping all new REFINING facilities.
It doesn't matter right now if we DOUBLED our own imports or production (supply) we could not refine any additional crude. We burn over 300 MILLION GALLONS of gasoline A DAY. We burn a very similar figure in DIESEL FUEL (between trucks and rails). Additional millions of gallons are burned daily in Jet Fuel, Kerosene fuel, and specialty fuels. Every state requires it's own special fuel blends, further eliminating the ability to cover shortage somewhere with excess somewhere else. Our current fuel production capacity is MAXED, and, as with all things, refining equip has to have maintenance occasionally, causing even more problems. Supply means nothing when you cannot use it.
Of course, no notice is made of the fact that gasoline usage in the USA goes UP durring the summer. That would have ZERO connection to the increase in prices. Fixed supply crossed with increasing demand equals increasing price.
Poser, you want a first year Mickey Mantle baseball card to cost $.02 too don't ya? That one too is a ripoff conspiracy sired by a monopoly of course (MLB).

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Pick a spot, you cannot produce evidence tree huggers are preventing drilling anywhere in the United States that is holding up a major oil basin.
Ho hummmmmm:
The Tip Of the Iceberg.
11/09/05 - At least 22 House Republicans forced the leadership to remove provisions for drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and the offshore continental shelf from the House Budget Reconciliation Bill. This is a huge victory for environmentalists and a huge defeat for the Republican leadership and the White House.
Stripping Arctic refuge drilling from the bill is a huge victory for environmentalists, who have made the House their last stand in the decades-long fight to keep oil firms out of the region.
9/21/05 - Thousands of opponents of proposed drilling in Alaska’s Wildlife Refuge traveled to Washington this week to protest the plan. Influential Democratic leaders joined the protestors, including Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton (NY) and John Kerry (MA). The drilling would disrupt the Refuge’s ecosystem including the migration patters of a vulnerable porcupine caribou population. Frigging Porcupine Caribou walking paths. :rolleyes:
7/12/05 - 12 environmental and public interest groups launched the “Exxpose Exxon” campaign yesterday by holding press conferences and events throughout the country. The coalition demanded Exxon Mobil change its stance on global warming and oil drilling in Alaska, with advocates vowing to boycott the company until changes are made.
Then there is this:
Left-wing activists who claim that the liberation of Iraq is really a “war for oil” are doing everything they can to prevent oil and gas drilling in ANWR or anywhere else within the United States. Many in the media are busy asserting that Alaskan Natives oppose ANWR drilling and that drilling poses a grave danger to Alaskan caribou herds. Neither of these statements is true.
A typical example of media deceit on ANWR is this quote from MSNBC:
“Congress could soon approve drilling in the refuge, a move opposed by environmentalists who along with Inupiat Eskimos also oppose offshore arctic development because of possible risks to migrating whales and other wildlife.”
This passage strongly implies that the Inupiat are opposed to drilling ANWR—this is false. The Inupiat oppose only offshore drilling, which is not currently technically feasible in the ANWR area. Their support for ANWR on-shore drilling is explained on the website of the city of Kaktovik, AK (population 286)--the only human settlement in ANWR:
“The essence of the Kaktovik position is that we would support oil exploration and development of the coastal plain provided we are given the authority and the resources to ensure that it is done properly and safely. Without the necessary provisions to ensure this protection, we would not.”
Leftists point to one of the very few native groups to oppose drilling—the Gwich’in—but do not note that they are located hundreds of miles south of ANWR on the other side of the Brooks Range. The majority of Gwich’in live in Canada. Another native group opposing oil drilling in ANWR is the native city of Point Hope, AK—700 miles from ANWR. The vast majority of Alaskan Native corporations support drilling as do the vast majority of Alaskans.
In Hawaii, where activists are working feverishly to reverse the two key pro-ANWR-drilling votes of Hawaii Democrat Senators Akaka and Inouye (pledged in exchange for Alaska Senators Stevens and Murkowski for the Akaka Bill, which would tribalize Native Hawaiians as Native Alaskans and American Indians), the Honolulu Weekly criticizes pro-drilling Alaskan Natives as “corporate”, denouncing one Native group as “the largest landowner in South East Alaska.” Other leftists denounce Hawaiian activists who accept Alaska-based funding. Apparently the only “real” Natives are the ones who line up with environmentalist dogma. In Alaska and Hawaii, ethnicity is being transformed into a political position.
Media accounts of ANWR feature photos of caribou and musk oxen frolicking in fields of wildflowers. The Artic slope looks like this for about one month of the year. A more realistic image of harsh ANWR environment can be found in the photo galleries of the Kaktovik, AK city website.
The Sierra Club claims that, “the harm to wildlife and this spectacular wilderness would be permanent and irreparable.” ANWR is 19 million acres – larger than Massachusetts, New Jersey, Hawaii, Connecticut and Delaware combined. If oil is found, less than 2,000 acres would be directly affected.
Caribou herds in Alaska’s existing North Slope drilling areas have actually increased in size since drilling began. Caribou around the Prudhoe Bay oilfield increased from about 3,000 in the 1970s to over 32,000 today. The Porcupine herd, which occupies the ANWR areas currently blocked from drilling, decreased in the same period. If they were truly concerned about the caribou, logically the Sierra Club should be demanding more drilling, not less.
Their agenda is revealed in the “Earth Charter”, endorsed by the Sierra Club and many other so-called environmentalists, which reads: "the dominant patterns of production and consumption are causing environmental devastation.” In other words, they want to destroy the free enterprise system and replace it with a system that “Promote(s) the equitable distribution of wealth within nations and among nations” – in other words, socialism.
In order to destroy free enterprise, the eco-socialists are using false arguments about Alaskan natives, false images of life in ANWR and false claims about the effect of oil drilling on wildlife. Their real goal and its affect on the day-to-day life of millions of humans is contained in the preamble to the Earth Charter which reads: “when basic needs have been met, human development is primarily about being more, not having more.”
In a first world context this leads to recession and unemployment. In a third world context this leads to poverty disease and starvation.
Of Canadian developement of the Tar Sands area....
The tar sands development is “putting unacceptable pressure on the environment,” says Julia Langer, of World Wildlife Fund-Canada.
That’s pretty much what we heard from the California Wilderness Coalition, when it sued to stop a federally approved geothermal power project at Medicine Lake in northeastern California two years ago. The two proposed power plants would impact only 15 acres each, and would produce no greenhouse gases. Remember, it’s the eco-activists who tell us greenhouse gases are the most important environmental calamity in the world. Nor would the geothermal plants produce any radioactive wastes. The plants would even feed into the existing Bonneville power grid without any extensive new transmission lines.
If the environmental activists and their media allies are protesting the Alberta tar sands and California’s Medicine Lake geothermal plants, what option does society have left — short of mud huts and darkness?
From Green Corps own website:
Arctic Refuge Victory Campaign:
When the Alaska Coalition needs effective grassroots organizing to protect the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge from oil drilling, they come to Green Corps.
For more than 10 years, the oil and gas industry has lobbied to exploit the last pristine wilderness area on Alaska’s northern slope, and each year, Green Corps has served as the grassroots field team to help defeat these efforts. In the fall of 2005, pro-drilling forces in Congress with allies in the Bush administration were pushing to include Arctic drilling in the federal budget. Drilling proponents hoped to use this back-door strategy to avoid drawing public attention to the issue, well aware of public opposition to drilling the Refuge. This was potentially the last stand for the Arctic Refuge.
With Congress set to vote on the budget that would open the Arctic Refuge to drilling, the Green Corps organizers knew that it would take people power to win. Launching massive grassroots and media campaigns in critical states like Illinois, Wisconsin, New Jersey, Oregon, Washington, Michigan and New Hampshire, Green Corps organizers mobilized public outcry—with the goal of gaining the support of key House Republicans.
In New Hampshire, Green Corps organizer Mary Nicol’s work to educate Rep. Charlie Bass (R-NH) resulted in one of the turning points of the campaign. Never a champion on environmental issues, Rep. Bass needed to hear from his constituents. Mary recruited over 200 citizen volunteers, including 52 activists that took an 18 hour ride to attend the Arctic Refuge Action Day in Washington, D.C. Using the skills she learned in Green Corps’ classroom training, Mary secured 35 stories about the Arctic Refuge in New Hampshire media outlets and signed on the New Hampshire Council of Churches to her campaign.
Responding to the public outcry on the issue, Rep. Bass became a champion in the fight to protect the Arctic Refuge, circulating a letter to fellow Republicans in the House about the need to prevent drilling. His letter gained the support of 23 of his Republican colleagues, successfully blocking Arctic drilling from inclusion in the House budget.
Other Green Corps organizers helped to bring thousands of concerned citizens to the Arctic Refuge Action Day in Washington, D.C. on September 20—the largest environmental lobby day organized in U.S. history. The Action Day brought together 5,000 citizens to the U.S. Capitol to hear political, religious, and Native American leaders speak, including noted environmentalist Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Rhode Island Republican Sen. Lincoln Chafee, and Senate Democrats John Kerry (Mass.), Joseph Lieberman (Conn.) and Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.).
How many more do you want poser? You're wrong again. :idea:

[Poster X]

I hate to piss on your parade (not really) but I never said the environmentalists didn't win a case or two. I said they haven't put a dent in American production. Even your own source (which you apparently were too embarrassed to mention) said that we couldn't refine more oil even if we found it. Try again smokestoomuch. Weak weak weak.

[Seadog]

In the long run, it may be best for us if Chavez ships its oil to China. It would forc us to push production of tar sand oils and conversion of coal to diesel. It would also make it necessay for us to rethink our priorities. In the short term, it may destroy our economy, but the ovrall effect would be to stir things up and get rid of deadwood. Kind of like a forest fire.

[Old Texan]

So much for agreement, eh... :rolleyes:
Canada and Mexico are 2 of our top five import resources plus there is enough oil in the Gulf of Mex to keep us going for many moons. We aren't as dependent on the middle east as everyone has us believe.
Alternative energy sources are beginning to kick in with ethanols plants being built through out the heartland.
Prices are dictated by the open market and immediate supply pretty much isn't relative to the rise in prices. Markets are much more complicated and demand is driving things upwards on the futures markets.
Buy unleaded gas futures and jump on board for the ride. :cool:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html
Crude Oil and Total Petroleum Imports Top 15 Countries
May 2006 Import Highlights: Released on July 14, 2006
Preliminary monthly data on the origins of crude oil imports in May 2006 has been released and it shows that three countries have each exported more than 1.40 million barrels per day to the United States. Including those countries, a total of five countries exported over 1.00 million barrels per day of crude oil to the United States (see table below). The top five exporting countries accounted for 70 percent of United States crude oil imports in May while the top ten sources accounted for approximately 88 percent of all U.S. crude oil imports. The top sources of US crude oil imports for May were Canada (1.877 million barrels per day), Mexico (1.576 million barrels per day), Saudi Arabia (1.457 million barrels per day), Venezuela (1.169 million barrels per day), and Nigeria (1.075 million barrels per day). The rest of the top ten sources, in order, were Iraq (0.666 million barrels per day), Angola (0.356 million barrels per day), Algeria (0.350 million barrels per day), Russia (0.255 million barrels per day), and Ecuador (0.239 million barrels per day). Total crude oil imports averaged 10.234 million barrels per day in May, which is an increase of 0.402 million barrels per day from April 2006.
Canada remained the largest exporter of total petroleum products in May, exporting 2.319 million barrels per day to the United States. The second largest exporter of total petroleum products was Mexico (1.710 million barrels per day) which had a slight decrease from last month of 0.040 million barrels per day.
Crude Oil Imports (Top 15 Countries)
(Thousand Barrels per Day)
Country May-06 Apr-06 YTD 2006 May-05 Jan - May 2005
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CANADA 1,877 1,710 1,757 1,722 1,586
MEXICO 1,576 1,601 1,668 1,748 1,559
SAUDI ARABIA 1,457 1,582 1,422 1,430 1,512
VENEZUELA 1,169 1,171 1,186 1,273 1,336
NIGERIA 1,075 1,022 1,134 1,111 1,046
IRAQ 666 531 533 588 536
ANGOLA 356 389 427 341 436
ALGERIA 350 256 259 152 175
RUSSIA 255 0 67 185 280
ECUADOR 239 312 279 238 289
KUWAIT 220 225 156 213 186
COLOMBIA 185 149 160 116 126
UNITED KINGDOM 174 169 122 194 219
NORWAY 98 74 86 117 128
BRAZIL 96 111 110 115 54
Total Imports of Petroleum (Top 15 Countries)
(Thousand Barrels per Day)
Country May-06 Apr-06 YTD 2006 May-05 Jan - May 2005
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CANADA 2,319 2,238 2,277 2,188 2,123
MEXICO 1,710 1,750 1,785 1,826 1,640
SAUDI ARABIA 1,490 1,595 1,453 1,526 1,573
VENEZUELA 1,470 1,393 1,482 1,574 1,582
NIGERIA 1,189 1,098 1,207 1,214 1,134
IRAQ 666 531 533 588 536
ALGERIA 643 543 552 449 431
RUSSIA 616 218 317 325 445
VIRGIN ISLANDS 373 239 301 367 327
ANGOLA 368 419 443 353 446
UNITED KINGDOM 349 315 272 345 361
NETHERLANDS 259 161 178 178 109
ECUADOR 246 319 285 238 294
KUWAIT 226 225 160 219 196
COLOMBIA 204 176 183 176 161
Note: The data in the tables above exclude oil imports into the U.S. territories.

[centerhill condor]

Oil is the commodity of the day... hard to believe but nutmeg, pepper, sugar, rubber and other things we take for granted were once strategic materials upon which empires were built and blood was spilled.
Oil's global importance will be a historical footnote as has every other vitally important economic commodity. The question is where will we get the leadership?
Answer: the free market.
We'll make the transition in baby steps... first E-85, then pure alcohol, then alcohol for fuel cells. The market requires a little time and a profit motive for change. We're building ethanol plants all over the country... not new refineries. We'll have to make changes to these 30 year old boats. But ya'll like turning wrenches and learning new things, right?
Look who can't make the transition; China, India, Russia and most of Africa and others can't feed their own people so they're stuck with oil. Those "amber waves of grain" can be easily converted to ethanol with a well deserved pay raise for our farmers and American labor. This change is good for American industry. Think how much easier foreign policy will be. And Al Gore can get a real job because alcohol from agriculture is a "break even" on the CO2 cycle.
At the end of the day, this $4 gallon gas will be what makes the world a better place for the good old U.S.A.!

[Blown 472]

Oil is the commodity of the day... hard to believe but nutmeg, pepper, sugar, rubber and other things we take for granted were once strategic materials upon which empires were built and blood was spilled.
Oil's global importance will be a historical footnote as has every other vitally important economic commodity. The question is where will we get the leadership?
Answer: the free market.
We'll make the transition in baby steps... first E-85, then pure alcohol, then alcohol for fuel cells. The market requires a little time and a profit motive for change. We're building ethanol plants all over the country... not new refineries. We'll have to make changes to these 30 year old boats. But ya'll like turning wrenches and learning new things, right?
Look who can't make the transition; China, India, Russia and most of Africa and others can't feed their own people so they're stuck with oil. Those "amber waves of grain" can be easily converted to ethanol with a well deserved pay raise for our farmers and American labor. This change is good for American industry. Think how much easier foreign policy will be. And Al Gore can get a real job because alcohol from agriculture is a "break even" on the CO2 cycle.
At the end of the day, this $4 gallon gas will be what makes the world a better place for the good old U.S.A.!
DING!!!!!!!!!!!

[Seadog]

Ethanol is a fools fuel. We do not have the capacity to grow food and fuel at the same time. Brazil has tried it several times and even with their vast areas of agriculture, it was never really viable.

[Blown 472]

Ethanol is a fools fuel. We do not have the capacity to grow food and fuel at the same time. Brazil has tried it several times and even with their vast areas of agriculture, it was never really viable.
Yeah you are right, so lets all bend over and grab our ankles.
That and I sat in line behind other "fools" waiting to pump 1.99 a gallon 105 octane fuel into their motorhomes and trucks, effin idiots we are. :rolleyes:

[centerhill condor]

Seadog Ethanol is a fools fuel. We do not have the capacity to grow food and fuel at the same time. Brazil has tried it several times and even with their vast areas of agriculture, it was never really viable
so ethanol isn't your thing... no problemo. In Sullivan county TN we're currently converting coal into methanol. The U.S. is the Saudi of coal in particular Montana is the Kuwait sans towels...
They're as many alternatives to oil as oil products. The free market will determine which ones are put into play and at what price. My personal favorite is ethanol 'cause it goes well with ice. Alcohols can be made from lawn clippings and other decaying organic matter.
CocaCola was once the world's largest buyer of sugar. They got tired of being yanked around by the producers and switched to corn syrup. Nobody noticed the difference. Your greatgrandkids will view petrol the same way we view whale oil... obsolete.
Rest assured that loaf of bread will continue to be made and the price will go up. The only question is where the money goes! Nebraska or Nigeria you decide.

[Sleek-Jet]

So, Chavez is going to double his sales to China...
So, wouldn't that lower the price of oil?? Putting an additional 150 million barrels a day on the market would lower the market price.

[Seadog]

Chavez sending his oil to China will not increase the amount available from other sources due to several factors.
As a fuel, ethanol would be a less than adequate replacement due to its extreme corrosivity. A vehicle that operates on gasoline will never get the efficiency out of ethaol that would make it meet EPA standards. In some areas, ethanol would be fine as a limited use fuel. I could see some agricultural equipment using it, if it can be economically produced on the farms.
We and Canada have enormous potential in tar sands development, I find our best bet is with coal to diesel. Estimates are that it will run about $3/gal in full production. We have the largest coal reserves of any nation. There is the future ability to produce gasoline from coal, but diesel is a reality now.

[mickeyfinn]

The real solution will be a combination of things. One of the two biggest players will be shale and tar sands for the next twenty years or so. Prices won't drop, bur reliance on the sandniggers will be reduced. (did I say that aloud?). Long term I believe we will see an increase in vehicle efficiency, ethanol and the above. Eventually if no other viabe source of portable energy comes out we will see nuclear power being used as a cheap power source to generate hydrogen for use in fuel cells. Electric powered vehicles will gain popularity for single people or couples to use for close to home running around. My money is on shale and tar sand. At current prices they are both now cost effective. Estimates now claim that shale could prove to be a larger reserve than the middle east and some estimates are claiming that Alberta's tar sands could be second to the shale eventually pushing the middle east to third......Let them drink their f-ing oil. Of course none of this matters if we don't get some additional refining capacity. It would also be nice if we could limit oil harvesting in our territories to wholly American companies.

[Blown 472]

Chavez sending his oil to China will not increase the amount available from other sources due to several factors.
As a fuel, ethanol would be a less than adequate replacement due to its extreme corrosivity. A vehicle that operates on gasoline will never get the efficiency out of ethaol that would make it meet EPA standards. In some areas, ethanol would be fine as a limited use fuel. I could see some agricultural equipment using it, if it can be economically produced on the farms.
We and Canada have enormous potential in tar sands development, I find our best bet is with coal to diesel. Estimates are that it will run about $3/gal in full production. We have the largest coal reserves of any nation. There is the future ability to produce gasoline from coal, but diesel is a reality now.
??????????????????

[Steve 1]

We and Canada have enormous potential in tar sands development, I find our best bet is with coal to diesel. Estimates are that it will run about $3/gal in full production. We have the largest coal reserves of any nation. There is the future ability to produce gasoline from coal, but diesel is a reality now.
The Oil Shale in one deposit alone has been estimated at 1 Trillion barrels.

[Kurtis500]

Oil is the commodity of the day... hard to believe but nutmeg, pepper, sugar, rubber and other things we take for granted were once strategic materials upon which empires were built and blood was spilled.
Oil's global importance will be a historical footnote as has every other vitally important economic commodity. The question is where will we get the leadership?
Answer: the free market.
We'll make the transition in baby steps... first E-85, then pure alcohol, then alcohol for fuel cells. The market requires a little time and a profit motive for change. We're building ethanol plants all over the country... not new refineries. We'll have to make changes to these 30 year old boats. But ya'll like turning wrenches and learning new things, right?
Look who can't make the transition; China, India, Russia and most of Africa and others can't feed their own people so they're stuck with oil. Those "amber waves of grain" can be easily converted to ethanol with a well deserved pay raise for our farmers and American labor. This change is good for American industry. Think how much easier foreign policy will be. And Al Gore can get a real job because alcohol from agriculture is a "break even" on the CO2 cycle.
At the end of the day, this $4 gallon gas will be what makes the world a better place for the good old U.S.A.!
I like that.

[Poster X]

Alternative fuel is WAY down the road and isn't going to happen overnight. Venezuela is needed as well as Canada to provide some kind of balance in oil pricing. If we alienate Canada like we have our other allies it could creat immediate dependancy on Middle East oil which would be catastrophic to the small business man. Let's not forget when Bush outlawed Canadian drugs it kinda pissed them off. I'm not saying they'd cut off their nose to spite their face, but it's certainly feasible they would would raise their prices exponentially as the Middle East does theirs, removing any sense of financial competiton with suppliers. There is no way we can prepare for alternate fuels on a mass basis in ten years best case scenario. That's plenty of time to put hundreds of thousands of small businesses in the crapper. That means, sans a few large independants, entrepeneurism would come to schreeching halt setting us up for a caste system if not in our lifetime...certainly in our childrens. Let's not forget Walmart has plans to get into auto sales and real estate. There is also plans to build "mini-marts" as a subdivision of the large stores. Small business is in deep trouble. You won't see it today but in 10 years things can change a lot. Hopefully for the better, even tho the trend is quite the opposite.
I know. Gloom and doom, gloom and doom. It's hard not to predict a gloom future based on the current trends.