Steering Help!! - Blown Campbell '24

[namtra]

Hi all, I am new the the ***boat Forums and in need of some help.
I own a 1980 Campbell '24 Cuddy with a blown 427 (dyno'd 613hp) 2 speed TH400 Tranny (1st gear removed) and a v-drive. My dad bought the boat new, rigged everything himself....has all top of the line parts. Only problem we have really ever faced is the steering...its a nightmare. It is currently rigged with cable steering. This boat weighs a lot and the steering makes it less-than enjoyable to drive. Its like road racing an RV with no power steering!
Anyone familiar with Campbells, Spectras, Schiadas, Sleekcraft or other heavy v-drives?
I was told that hydraulic steering is the ticket. Thoughts? Referrals to manufacturers?
I'm not racing this thing, just want my wife to be able to manage the boat if I'm wakeboarding :rolleyes:
Thanks for reading...your help is VERY appreciated!

[InKahntrol]

Unfortunately, that seems to be a problem with Campbells. I assume your boat has a Teleflex-Morse type setup with a single cable and a gearbox behind the wheel. That's the standard setup on these boats, and it isn't exactly razor sharp.
However, has the cable ever been replaced? If not, it's probably just old and sticky, and with a new cable it will definately get easier. We put a new Morse setup in my boat, and its not bad. Not sharp like a flatty, but smooth and relatively precise.The problem could also be caused be a big-power motor and a huge rudder. I've seen some go-fast schiadas with smaller flatty-style rudders to make steering easier.
I don't think a power-assist setup like you're talking about is the way to go. It would be heavy and imprecise. The trickest solution is a full push-pull cable system like a flat bottom or GN boat. I know Dave Sammons has done that conversion on cruisers before, you might want to shoot him a line (he's on the boards here). I think it would be a lot of work (and $$$), but would result in much more precise steering.
Like I said though, if the cable has never been replaced, try that first. Could be a quick & easy way to solve your problem.
Dan

[namtra]

Thanks for the tip. I don't believe the cable has ever been replaced. I will try that.
Going to a smaller rudder...what would the negative side to that be? It seems the wheel would be easier to turn...but wouldn't that make it even less responsive?
One problem we have had is the cable sometimes jumps off the track when under a lot of load.
Thanks for the advice.

[InKahntrol]

Wait... jumps off the track? Is it a morse cable, with a steel cable inside a plastic housing that slides in and out, or is it a cable and pulley system? If it's a Morse setup, and its binding or slipping, you should replace the entire unit. Try Glenwood Marine (http://www.glenwoodmarine.net/), they'll have what you need.
If your boat isn't making huge power, I'd avoid changing the rudder. Do the cable first, that's probably your solution. My boat is making over 900hp and I'm using a standard cruiser rudder, and it steers fine. On my dad's 24' with a 850-horse blown bbc, it was tough to steer. I custom steel wedge-type rudder might make it easier to steer, but I don't think it would handle as good at lower speeds.
Dan

[namtra]

Its a cable quadrant system. I think I'll start with replacing the cable.
Do you have any pics and specs of your dad's 24'? ...and for your 21'? Seeing some bitch'n Campbells gets me through my work week. Thanks again for the help.

[InKahntrol]

I like your signature pic! Is that the engine from the cover of this month's Hot Rod? Pretty sweet.
Here's a pic of my dad's old boat. It is the last 24 built, and has an 850-horse 871 blown 510 BBC. Wild boat, made crazy power and noise, and drove like a giant flatty.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b307/inkahntrol/kahn2_Small.jpg
And here are a few of mine:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b307/inkahntrol/_MG_1614.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b307/inkahntrol/_MG_1618.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b307/inkahntrol/_MG_1621.jpg
-Dan

[namtra]

Very cool...thanks for the pics.
That motor is not the one on the cover of HotRod however it is a Nelson motor. The one on my signature is called "Project Kong" - 704cid, 106 mm turbocharged, intercooled twin injected BBC - crazy!! Who did your turbo motor? I do all the marketing and advertising for NRE, he re-worked our little blown 427 for the '24 and has built motors for my Camaro and Nova.

[namtra]

What type of mile per hour are you getting out of the 21' and your Dad's 24'?

[napabob]

Has anyone used the Command 200 twin system?
http://www.harmanmarine.com/newsite/Library/pp/40.pdf

[LD Mandella]

I have it on my Nordic, it is OK, I am limited in steering options but if you can the cable and pulley system is best then the Calgo set-up and next would be the 200 system in my opinion.

[InKahntrol]

That motor is not the one on the cover of HotRod however it is a Nelson motor. The one on my signature is called "Project Kong" - 704cid, 106 mm turbocharged, intercooled twin injected BBC - crazy!! Who did your turbo motor? I do all the marketing and advertising for NRE, he re-worked our little blown 427 for the '24 and has built motors for my Camaro and Nova.
I've heard of Nelson, very cool. It sounds like we're in the same biz. I do all the marketing and PR for Wilson Manifolds, JESEL, and Racepumps, and Nitrous Pro-Flow.
My dad and I actually built my turbo motor ourselves. It's a long-rod 496 with all forged Lunati internals and ported canfield/holley heads. We're still dialing it in (only used it twice so far), and I don't have the carbs fully tuned yet. So far I've seen low 70s at about 4,000, so it should go low-80s when everything is working right.
The 24 (dad sold it, its actually up for sale again on the Campbell website) was a total beast and loved to fly. It went about 80 and felt scary doing it. There are a few 24s out there that go REALLY fast. "Turn it Loose" has a Gentry twin turbo motor making over 1,000hp, and he gave me a 100mph ride that scared the crap out of me. Also, the Parker Brothers have some serious hardware... "Rat Roaster" has a blown 510 Hemi, and "Oh So Shy" has a blown 540 Chevy, both with BIG blowers and intercoolers. They both go over 100mph and look awesome doing it, but those guys have done a ton of work to their hulls and rigging to get there. Too bad there aren't any more regattas...

[Roaddogg 4040]

The steerng that I used in my Schiada and a few of my friends Schiada's was a Calgo (I Think) cable unit hooked up to a gear drive steering box at the rear of the boat and it worked perfect. No feed back presure on the steering wheel, no torque steer and light steering.
Steve

[namtra]

I've heard of Campbell's going over 100mph...thought was a myth...are they running v-drives with tranny's? Are they setting the motor further forward?
Are they still doing the regattas at the Nautical?
September (Date to be determined)
33rd Annual Campbell Boat Regatta
Nautical Inn Resort

[schiada96]

I've heard of Nelson, very cool. It sounds like we're in the same biz. I do all the marketing and PR for Wilson Manifolds, JESEL, and Racepumps, and Nitrous Pro-Flow.
My dad and I actually built my turbo motor ourselves. It's a long-rod 496 with all forged Lunati internals and ported canfield/holley heads. We're still dialing it in (only used it twice so far), and I don't have the carbs fully tuned yet. So far I've seen low 70s at about 4,000, so it should go low-80s when everything is working right.
The 24 (dad sold it, its actually up for sale again on the Campbell website) was a total beast and loved to fly. It went about 80 and felt scary doing it. There are a few 24s out there that go REALLY fast. "Turn it Loose" has a Gentry twin turbo motor making over 1,000hp, and he gave me a 100mph ride that scared the crap out of me. Also, the Parker Brothers have some serious hardware... "Rat Roaster" has a blown 510 Hemi, and "Oh So Shy" has a blown 540 Chevy, both with BIG blowers and intercoolers. They both go over 100mph and look awesome doing it, but those guys have done a ton of work to their hulls and rigging to get there. Too bad there aren't any more regattas...
I had a friend Dr Steve Mikol rest in peace who had a 24 that flat hauled ass.
Twin turbo bbc. It was the only 24 v drive that I have ever seen.

[InKahntrol]

Actually I'd say at least half the 24s are v-drives, maybe more. There were actually two ways to order a 24 new from the factory... standard, and "turbo." The turbo boats (even if they didn't have a turbo engine) came with bigger stringers, different layup, and a few other things to beef them up (and unfortunately make them even heavier).
Campbells were never really rigged for speed, so you have to make some basic changes to get them to move. All the really go-fast boats have the motor moved forward with a different strut (stock is 12 degree), and you have to take the hook out of the bottom. The Parker brothers both have v-drives with transmissions, and both are running HUGE gears. I've got 29s and a TH400 in mine, and I think they have taller gears than that.
As for the Regatta... I guess you haven't heard the bad news. After THREE DECADES of regattas, Campbell decided to stop doing the event. They announced it at the Spring Roundup this year. However, a group of owners are attempting to organize their own event for the weekend after labor day. Hopefully they pull it off.
It's a real shame, we've been to every regatta since the 16th, and my whole life I always wanted to race my own 20' in the "Plus Power" catagory. The year I finish my boat, and they kill the longest-running regatta in LHC.

[namtra]

Are these other boat owners you speak of on the forums ever..? I'd love to pick their brain to get me boat rigged properly.
Im sure you've seen this Campbell link page...http://community-2.webtv.net/campbellboats/STEVESCAMPBELLBOATS/
Too bad about the regatta...hopefully the other owners will pull it off.

[InKahntrol]

That website belongs to Steve Sipes, his twin-turbo 20' Campbell is what inspired me to build mine. I think he's actually selling it because he stepped up to a 24. He also owns half of Numero Uno, the first 32 Campbell.
I don't think any of the go-fast 24 guys are on the board, but I have some of their numbers. Martin Fracini owns "Turn it Loose" the Gentry-powered 24. PM me and I'll send you his number, he's a super-cool guy.

[namtra]

Our Campbell 24 has a TH400 with 1st gear removed. Last year we grenaded the torque converter (the original). Any idea of what converter I should run? Also my v-drive is a Champion (only 1%). What gear should I run there. Thanks as always.

[InKahntrol]

Don't run a converter. It weighs a TON, causes excess heat, and there's no reason to have it. Your prop slips in the water and acts as a converter. Use a three-fingered coupler from Hughes Performance (http://www.hughesperformance.com). Measure the thickness of your motor plate, then call them up and they'll take care of you. Ask for Junior, he just set me up with mine.
I used to use one of these deals in my Nordic and it worked great (my dad has been running one in his flat bottom for 20 years). On my campbell I switched over to a different design, a direct crank-to-trans coupler from a sprint car. So far it has grenaded three transmissions. I ordered a coupler from Hughes yesterday.
Unless you're making huge power with your Campbell, I'd leave the gears in the box that you've got. I'd just mess with props for now. Getting gears for the Champ boxes is hard, I had to do a lot of legwork to find my 29s. If you need them, I've got 5s somewhere in the garage, and I think the original shop that made the boxes still has some leftover gear sets. If you do want to change them though, there's a shop in LHC that does bitchin work on those boxes.
Dan

[VD CRUISER]

namtra,
I don't believe you have gotten much of an answer about your original problem,(steering). If you have the cable/quadrant type, thats a good system and should steer very easy. Have you checked all of your pulleys ,bearings, and steering shaft for bind and the rudder itself. You said you were going to replace the cable, while you have it off check every thing in the system for binding. If everything is free and the cable is adjusted it should turn very easy.

[namtra]

Thanks Kahn, the steering is the original (from 30 yrs ago). Its a Nicson Quadrant and cable system. I think I found the cable at Glenmarine.com (pn#18416). We're pulling the tranny this weekend, hopefully testing at Elsinore next weekend, and be at the Nautical in a few weeks. Still have a lot of work to do. :argue: