frahz hulls?

[tfrahz555]

hey anyone know about Terry Frahz's Sprint boats? I know showboat racing(Bob Zabady) is trying to run one out on the east coast. Did his boats ever work?

[TAF]

Don't know about racing them but my buddy owned a black / gold / maroon one here in Mesa, AZ for 10 yrs, had it twin turbo'd 390 ( 103 mph) but sold it a couple months ago to a guy in Parker who I'm told blew the motor w/ too much boost.

[steve d]

What happened to Champagne Dreamin?

[V-DRIVE VIDEO]

hey anyone know about Terry Frahz's Sprint boats? I know showboat racing(Bob Zabady) is trying to run one out on the east coast. Did his boats ever work?
http://www.v-drivevideo.com/jerrysgallery/albums/userpics/10001/Frahs%20002.jpg
http://www.v-drivevideo.com/jerrysgallery/albums/userpics/10001/Frahs.jpg

[Itsahobby]

$7400, I'll take 2. :)

[canam10]

hey anyone know about Terry Frahz's Sprint boats? I know showboat racing(Bob Zabady) is trying to run one out on the east coast. Did his boats ever work?
I ran aganist Terry many time before his untimely death. Terry built a very nice boat and they were as fast as any in the days before the Biesemeyer's.
His boats looked like the Warren Hurricane hulls I used to race against him early on. We all pretty much went to Biesemeyers and Terry changed many things on the bottom of his boat to try and run with the Biesemeyers. One of the last times I ran against Terry he destroyed a boat in St. Timothee, Quebec trying to run with the Biesemeyers. Terry did that quite often as Terry was a very hard driver and would not back off he'd rather go on his head than finish second I think. I'm sure one of his boats would make a great lake boat and maybe even a decent boat for the new SE class but I would not try and run one in any of todays classes. Tim

[Sked]

The boat featured in the Powerboat Magazine article is the first v-drive flatbottom I drove. Terry called it his wife, Mary Anne's boat and he let me take it out for a test drive when I stayed at his house following a race in Florida in October 1973. I had been racing a speed skiff and Terry and I traded boats while we were out running in Terry's home waters in Jacksonville, FL. Terry's business was actually named Chater Marine, not Charter Marine as stated in the article.
Frah's hulls were highly competitive in the late sixties and early seventies capturing many titles during that time period. Most notable among his winning boats was Henry Langsenkamp's SK-146 "Steeler", driven by Jack Wilcox and later by Terry. (See http://www.jerseyspeedskiffs.com/71miamipc.htm and http://www.jerseyspeedskiffs.com/frahs1.htm)
With the advent of the runner bottom Biesemeyer hulls and increased horsepower, the Frahs hulls lost their competitive edge on short, tight turn race courses, but still ran respectably well on large courses. Terry upgraded his hulls to a runner bottom design in order to be more competitive, but due to the basic hull design which had a sharp chine, the hulls could still not equal the cornering ability of the Biesemeyer and Terry basically limited himself to only running the larger courses, similar to what Starfire drivers were doing. At the time that wasn't of too much importance because the only competition record that counted was the mile and two-thirds size (large) race course.
The Frahs hull that Bob Zabady recently purchased was Terry's own race boat, and I believe it was the last boat he raced. It was his last design complete with strakes and a new deck design. Properly set up it may run OK, but I don't believe it will ever be competitive against current Biesemeyer style hulls especially given the level of sophistication these hulls have evolved to since their introduction.
By the way, Hi Woody!

[tfrahz555]

sked:
Very good, it is I. Thanks for the info. I figured i'd remain anonymous since most of the guys on here are west coast legends and probally wouldn't know me anyway. So have you got her yet? I believe the plate is too long and not enough weight forward. let me know when u test it.
Woody

[steve d]

sked:
Very good, it is I. Thanks for the info. I figured i'd remain anonymous since most of the guys on here are west coast legends and probally wouldn't know me anyway. So have you got her yet? I believe the plate is too long and not enough weight forward. let me know when u test it.
Woody
As far as I'm concerned-----Welcome. This post motivated Jerry to post pics of that hull---Never seen one. Thanks...And thanks to Jerry

[Sked]

sked:
Very good, it is I. Thanks for the info. I figured i'd remain anonymous since most of the guys on here are west coast legends and probally wouldn't know me anyway. So have you got her yet? I believe the plate is too long and not enough weight forward. let me know when u test it.
Woody
It came in today. Has a few issues I'll be addressing tomorrow. Hope to get it in the water Thursday for a test run.

[DaveA]

There's a Frahs hull (less BBC) for sale in my area. PM me if you want a hookup.
DaveA

[Sanger D]

was this the same issue with the LITTLE beisemeyers ,( good on the big course but not so good on the one pin courses)?,What can I expect from my little beisemeyer?

[Sked]

I ran aganist Terry many time before his untimely death. Terry built a very nice boat and they were as fast as any in the days before the Biesemeyer's.
His boats looked like the Warren Hurricane hulls I used to race against him early on. We all pretty much went to Biesemeyers and Terry changed many things on the bottom of his boat to try and run with the Biesemeyers. One of the last times I ran against Terry he destroyed a boat in St. Timothee, Quebec trying to run with the Biesemeyers. Terry did that quite often as Terry was a very hard driver and would not back off he'd rather go on his head than finish second I think. I'm sure one of his boats would make a great lake boat and maybe even a decent boat for the new SE class but I would not try and run one in any of todays classes. Tim
Your assessment of Terry's driving and his boats are right on the mark. Terry was a skilled and fearless driver and his boats were impeccably constructed. His boats actually more resembled a Stevens and I believe Terry worked for them in his earlier years.
I recall the event that year at St.Timothee. There were something like eighteen to twenty-four Super Stocks and an equal amount of SK/PCs. I was there driving Bob Raide's Starfire. SS-63 Keeping up with the Jones' (http://www.jerseyspeedskiffs.com/ss63.htm)
Saturday was very windy and rough so Raide decided we would sit it out as this was only the second race for the boat and I was new to the Starfire and he didn't want me taking any chances. Terry had a new kevlar lay-up hull and crashed it violently in the first turn while trying to stay with Julian Pettengil. The boat went over so hard that the engine was ripped out, bending the drive shaft and torque tube at a ninety degree angle and one side of the hull and deck were just gone. I remember being amazed at the amount of damage done to the boat as myself along with Hank Wendt and others helped get the boat on the trailer as Terry was being taken to the hospital. It looked like the engine had gone right through the side of the boat. Around 6:00 PM, immediately following the day's racing, Terry, having just been released from the hospital, walked back into the pits and came directly over to me to praise me, saying, as he put it, "you're the only smart son of a bitch here" for sitting out the race, something I really couldn't take credit for as it was actually Raide's decision.
http://www.jerseyspeedskiffs.com/uploadedimages/sttimothy.jpg
1979 St. Timothee

[Sked]

was this the same issue with the LITTLE beisemeyers ,( good on the big course but not so good on the one pin courses)?,What can I expect from my little beisemeyer?
As I recall, the only area the LITTLE Biesemeyers excelled, and marginally at that, was in the kilos as an E boat. I think the boats were just too narrow to make them a good circle boat. Those more knowledgeable than I in Biesemeyer history my very well dispute that and I would have to concede to them not being that well versed in the history of those boats.

[V-DRIVE VIDEO]

Great pic but I had to tone it down a bit. :cool:
http://www.v-drivevideo.com/jerrysgallery/albums/userpics/10001/sttimothy.jpg

[bocco]

Anybody notice 11.5:1 compression and runs on regular. Wasn't the octane already dropping by then?

[canam10]

Great pic but I had to tone it down a bit. :cool:
http://www.v-drivevideo.com/jerrysgallery/albums/userpics/10001/sttimothy.jpg
Sked,
My guess is that photo is not from 78 but more likely 79-80. I was involved in that real bad crash at St. Timothee in 78 when three of us went over and I ended up driving thru Don Warner's PC boat(driven by Bert Mosch) . David Basacco was the third boat involved. In 79 I put my boat over testing up there on Friday and broke it up pretty bad. 79 was also the year Joe Gimbrone was killed up there and Terry was already in the hospital(from the crash we were talking about) when they brought Joe in. 78 was also the year Chip Hanauer put the Lauterbach GP boat in the trees after losing a rudder. I still have the newspaper article about that weekend. After St.Timothee 79 I purchased Doc's new boat he had built to replace the one he crashed in 78. For the next few years I came down and pretty much ran with you Guys down South. I called the boat American Dream SS-10 and won most times out as a SS and my share as an SK & PC. I still have many of the trophy's but the 4 ducks I have maybe my favorite. Getting back to the picture looking at the boats in the water (back to front) Ken Brodie (Rich Hull local Grand Island builder Rich Oddo) SS-63 Bob Raid's boat (you in it?) next boat backing in I believe is Julian(yellow/orange boat),SS-7 (not quite sure but my guess is It's the old Never Enuff that Midget had) next Ron Wildey? and don't recall the 777 boat. Back on land waiting to go in SS-427 Joe Less' former Mama's Mink probably Guy Verdon owner at the time next looks like Stevie Smith and Angel Fire and SS-17 (with the heart between the SS and the 17) is Dick Bullers is Phil Bradley's Afternoon Delite. Looking down at the end again is that Nick with the beard behind the yellow scoop and infront of the white one?? Sked if you could drop me a line I would appreciate it. I purchased a little Starfire splash I'm planning on making a return to racing with in the SE class and am just about ready to start drilling holes and would like to talk abit before I start. my e-mail is schulte10@verizon.net If you could send me a number you could be reached at I would gladly call. I tried to write through the skiff site but got no ans. Tim Just as a little side note to the guys that have never had the pleasure of racing in Canada I'll bet if who ever took that picture turned 180* there would have been as many boat the other way. For just a few I'm sure Cyril Smith , Andy Kasamaric, Mel Trevochka,Gordie Judges, Doc, Pierre Pontbriand ,Mike Thompson ,Don Warner, Duff often made thoes trips, Bob Bodie and other were also there. If it was 79 Terry's and my boat were crashed at that race

[CircleJerk]

Boy, look who turned into chatty Kathy (Mr P.)! Cant be a lurker when the talk is of Eastern flat racin........that picture could very well be of our Nostalgia fleet here in the Northwest, of course we wouldnt be as fast.....? Or are we?
PS Blondie likes to ride in those overpowered rowboats! Hutch is to blame!

[Sked]

Sked,
My guess is that photo is not from 78 but more likely 79-80. I was involved in that real bad crash at St. Timothee in 78 when three of us went over and I ended up driving thru Don Warner's PC boat(driven by Bert Mosch) . David Basacco was the third boat involved. In 79 I put my boat over testing up there on Friday and broke it up pretty bad. 79 was also the year Joe Gimbrone was killed up there and Terry was already in the hospital(from the crash we were talking about) when they brought Joe in. 78 was also the year Chip Hanauer put the Lauterbach GP boat in the trees after losing a rudder. I still have the newspaper article about that weekend. After St.Timothee 79 I purchased Doc's new boat he had built to replace the one he crashed in 78. For the next few years I came down and pretty much ran with you Guys down South. I called the boat American Dream SS-10 and won most times out as a SS and my share as an SK & PC. I still have many of the trophy's but the 4 ducks I have maybe my favorite. Getting back to the picture looking at the boats in the water (back to front) Ken Brodie (Rich Hull local Grand Island builder Rich Oddo) SS-63 Bob Raid's boat (you in it?) next boat backing in I believe is Julian(yellow/orange boat),SS-7 (not quite sure but my guess is It's the old Never Enuff that Midget had) next Ron Wildey? and don't recall the 777 boat. Back on land waiting to go in SS-427 Joe Less' former Mama's Mink probably Guy Verdon owner at the time next looks like Stevie Smith and Angel Fire and SS-17 (with the heart between the SS and the 17) is Dick Bullers is Phil Bradley's Afternoon Delite. Looking down at the end again is that Nick with the beard behind the yellow scoop and infront of the white one?? Sked if you could drop me a line I would appreciate it. I purchased a little Starfire splash I'm planning on making a return to racing with in the SE class and am just about ready to start drilling holes and would like to talk abit before I start. my e-mail is schulte10@verizon.net If you could send me a number you could be reached at I would gladly call. I tried to write through the skiff site but got no ans. Tim Just as a little side note to the guys that have never had the pleasure of racing in Canada I'll bet if who ever took that picture turned 180* there would have been as many boat the other way. For just a few I'm sure Cyril Smith , Andy Kasamaric, Mel Trevochka,Gordie Judges, Doc, Pierre Pontbriand ,Mike Thompson ,Don Warner, Duff often made thoes trips, Bob Bodie and other were also there. If it was 79 Terry's and my boat were crashed at that race
Tim,
OK, 1979 it is. And yes, there were at least twice as many flatbottoms present than what's shown in the picture.
I don't recall receiving an email from you. Either it didn't make it or I inadvertantly deleted it as one of the over two hundred spam emails I receive every day. Anyway, my phone number is listed on my website JerseySpeedSkiffs.com (http://www.jerseyspeedskiffs.com/) but if you're looking for set up recommendations, I really don't have any as my boat is different. I already spoke to Marc about this. I suggest you contact the builder to get his recommendations on the set up. After all, as the builder, he should know what the best set up is for his hulls.

[Sked]

Boy, look who turned into chatty Kathy (Mr P.)! Cant be a lurker when the talk is of Eastern flat racin....
....that picture could very well be of our Nostalgia fleet here in the Northwest, of course we wouldnt
be as fast.....? Or are we?
PS Blondie likes to ride in those overpowered rowboats! Hutch is to blame!
If you got one of those two seater overpowered rowboats of your own then maybe Blondie could take you for a
ride and show you how it's done. http://members.aol.com/jssk88/biggrin2.gif
Oh, and don't worry, my penchant for socializing comes in spurts. I'm sure this one won't last long.
See, already my posts are getting shorter. http://members.aol.com/jssk88/wavebye.gif

[tfrahz555]

sked, anyword yet? Did you test?
Woody

[canam10]

Tim,
I don't recall receiving an email from you. Either it didn't make it or I inadvertantly deleted it as one of the over two hundred spam emails I receive every day. but if you're looking for set up recommendations, I really don't have any as my boat is different. I already spoke to Marc about this. I suggest you contact the builder to get his recommendations on the set up. After all, as the builder, he should know what the best set up is for his hulls.
Not a problem. I trash everything I don't know who it's from also.
For some reason there seems to be a bit of a darkside to this hull and nobody is telling or knows the whole story. First let me say I'm very glad I was able to get this boat and very thankfull for all the help from Marc and his Dad to make it possible. I was able to get in touch with Joey and he tells me they did not build this boat. He said it may have been built at Eliminator boats. One thing I'm pretty sure of is it is an exact copy of the Starfire. The deck is different it does have the D'Cucci deck. It's not the same bottom as the one Duff is driving. From what I know the boat was built for Paul Stratton. It seems that the mold may have been taken from a Starfire hull without permission and thats why nobody is taking claim for building it. Marc did send me some measurements he got from Joey and I have talked to a couple others that have been very willing to help out. Mel has all the hardware built and we're ready to start putting this thing togeather. The only thing we need yet is the pillow blocks for the adj. plate we are going to use as the transom is rounded and slants back they will not be a standard item. Are you running an adj. plate or is yours fixed ? Maybe better to give you a call when is the best time?? Tim

[canam10]

was this the same issue with the LITTLE beisemeyers ,( good on the big course but not so good on the one pin courses)?,What can I expect from my little beisemeyer?
Sanger D,
I'm really surprised nobody has jumped on the question. I think the first thing one must know is what your planning on doing with it. If it is going to be used as a pleasure boat one thing I thing I'm pretty sure of it will be one of the best looking hulls out there and will turn better than most. If you are going to race it, than there are other issues !!
I agree with what Sked said, the little boat never lived up to It's big brother's reputation. Julian built the first one's and they may have been the most unforgiving of the little boats. When Ray got the mold he made several changes and it was better but still not as good as the wide boat. Mel of Temptation boats has a narrow mold that many changes were made to the plug before taking the mold and the boat really is pretty close to the wide boat maybe a tad faster but again maybe not as forgiving. There have been many reasons given for Julian building the narrow boat but I believe it was for different reasons than most talk about. I got my first Biesemeyer in the mid 70's when the Biesemeyers were first starting to come to the fore front as the premier circle boat, it wasn't much longer after that , if you didn't have one you would more than likely be chasing them. I was very fortunate to own and race a Team boat and was unfortunatelly there to watched the rise and fall of Arizona boats. Your boat will make you a great boat no matter what you do with it. Just use your head a bit more than your right foot and you'll be just fine. Tim

[jackaroos]

I own a 77' Frahs jet and was always trying to get info on it. It was purchased 9 years ago from a guy in Roseville, Ca. The boat name is Racey Macey any history would help. I know this is in the wrong section but the right topic.

[tfrahz555]

Well the frahz seems to be competitive. Sked of JS Marine did some work on the prop and plate. I was really suprised how well this boat drove. Then again everyone said the same things about Barron Sprints and they are still my favorites.
Woody