Do you live near an Engine reservation? Have ya heard this fairytail?::

[Trailer Park Casanova]

http://boatcop.com/smf/index.php?topic=40.0

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Considering his wife is Cherokee, I think, I would imagine Alan would take issue with those comments. Kind like slapping her and her ancestors in the face. I've met both Alan and his wife, though they certainly would not remember me, but I found them both to be very nice people.

[PowellScooter]

uuuuuh , think it will rain today?

[ONAROLL]

Since I have spent the majority of my life in the Cherokee Nation, I can only speculate that the "Nation" Boatcop knows so well must be in another state.......Vic

[RiverDave]

Since I have spent the majority of my life in the Cherokee Nation, I can only speculate that the "Nation" Boatcop knows so well must be in another state.......Vic
So are you saying that you disagree with BoatCops post? I gotta admit it was about 180 degrees different then my understanding of it as well? If Alan said it though I'm inclined to believe it.. I've always been told Indian's get kicked down quite a bit of $$$ though even to this day..
RD

[Sleek-Jet]

The second wealthiest indian tribe in the nation is the Southern Ute Indian Tribe (SUIT) in Ignacio, Colorado. SUIT has what they call their growth fund, within that fund are real estate holdings, construction companies, oil and gas production and exploration companies. They routinely publish that the growth fund has in excess of 1 billion (yes, with a b) in cash. The tribe numbers somewhere in the 650 member range. They have direct control of all their mineral royalties, and every member of the tribe gets "X" amount every month. Any tribe member over the age of 65 get's around 55,000 a year till their death. Good for them. Yes, they have a casino as well... :D
What chaps my ass about them is they still get to take advantage of all the programs through the feds. Their kids can attend any state run college free of charge, they get BIA/IHS health care, they get grants to improve infrastructure on the reservation, ect...
Not all tribes are the same.
http://www.sugf.com/about.htm

[RiverDave]

I don't understand why if they are a "sovereign nation" (not part of the US?) then why they get to lobby, and vote? Especially if our laws don't really apply to them?
RD

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I don't understand why if they are a "sovereign nation" (not part of the US?) then why they get to lobby, and vote? Especially if our laws don't really apply to them?
RD
I've never understood that either.

[Jesster]

I grew up in the middle of the "Sioux Nation" in NE South Dakota an have seen fist hand what the Indian people have come to at least in that area.
Government handouts, grants, claims and claim checks have pretty much devastated them as a people. I have to agree with the first article written on Boatcops web site that the handouts have ruined many of them. The other cause is the propensity toward alcoholism, its 3x the national average. The facts he stated are true however. My problem with it is that people have been displaced and conquered by war throughout history. Because this is more recent and closer to a more civilized time it is perceived as wrong. Well by our standards now it was wrong and what was done to them was probably perceived as wrong by a lot of people even back then. That is war that is what happens as people explore, populations expand and people are absorbed. The weaker (or less numerous in this case) population is displaced. If we wouldn’t have done it somebody else would have, there is no way that they would have stayed isolated. Most likely they would have been conquered by some South America country and as we see now they have problems of their own with self governance, far more than we do anyway. My point is does anybody think they would have been better off, or even given the option of a nation within a nation. I don’t think so.
What the government did to them was not right but what the government continues to do to them or allow them to do to themselves is just as inexcusable.
We hear most about the tribes that are doing well with investments and casino's but there are far more that can barely support their respective tribal council's and their tribal governments and couldn’t if not for government handouts. I am not saying there are not a lot of "white people" taking handouts but I think if you were to look at the respective percentages of ethnic populations taking handouts whether government or tribal or both the American Indian is far and above every other group.
The Indians lost the Black Hills reservations because of gold being discovered but are still being paid for it to this day. Every tribe member with as little as 1/16th Indian blood (from the affected tribes) gets a claim check when they turn 18. I remember it was about $5000 back in 84' don’t know what it is now but in 80' it was $3500.
The self governance, at least for this tribe is not working and hasn't for years. We lived in a very nice house on 40 acres overlooking the town we lived in. 8 years after we built there the "Tribal chairman" of the Sioux tribe built a new house about a mile down the road from us. 2-3 years after they moved in he was indicted by the federal government for selling construction equipment that the Government gave to the tribe and pocketing the money. He did a couple years federal time and was out. He is now Tribal chairman again. Go figure.
My point is that for the most part the tribes are incapable of self governance. It is not working and as we continue to let it go on we do them another disservice. They talk about maintaining their heritage. I think that is important, but I also think they are maintaining it at the cost of many many tribal members. I am sure it comes down to keeping them together as a people but I'm not sure it is worth the cost. It’s not like they try to marry within the tribe to maintain bloodlines. I have 2nd cousins that are part Native American and don’t know of any pure blood Sioux.
It looks to me that the government has recently taken a hands off approach with the Indians mainly because of past bad acts. Even when they do something they feel would help it is perceived and sometimes rightly so as harming them.
At some point the American Indians will all be absorbed into America as Americans but in the mean time most (in the tribes I am familiar with) are suffering another disservice by the tribes they belong to and our government for its lack of action.
Do I feel bad about past transgressions by our government? Yes. Is the government still doing things they shouldn't? Yes. Should we have given them the right of self governance to begin with? In retrospect, no. They should have been absorbed into America as Americans from the beginning and not left to their own devices. That has caused nothing but suffering for a large percentage of Native Americans and continues to do so.

[ONAROLL]

:cry: So are you saying that you disagree with BoatCops post? I gotta admit it was about 180 degrees different then my understanding of it as well? If Alan said it though I'm inclined to believe it.. I've always been told Indian's get kicked down quite a bit of $$$ though even to this day..
RD
Im not saying that I totally disagree with his post, but it is just the same old "slant" The Cherokees had there own written language and history that is pretty extensive,(not recorded by the "white man" as Alan inferred) the controversies that have plagued the two bands of the Cherokee nation, have been going on for years, hell, I think they were pushing for position while walking the trail of tears, economic assistance was/is granted to tribal members via the Cherokee Nation and financed through the federal government, formal education was not a part of the culture at that time, but in order to educate tribal members to asimilate into a modern era they had to be educated in a centrally located facility (the dreaded indian school) being the territory was pretty damn vast the students had to be lodged there simply due to distance, these schools were overseen by tribal members and educators of the time. yes, you got your ass popped if you were caught speaking your native language during school hours, the point was to teach them another language in which to communicate effectively in a changing world......I can go on and on but you get the idea...........roll forward a couple hundred years....currently the nation is a buisness, with soverign powers, this is where I have a problem........I have friends that have been denied positions within the nation because we need someone that looks more indian, even when the individual denied has a higher blood quantum.....and is ultimately more qualified.....(where are the equal rights now?)when you have a group of tribal elders that make the decisions concerning a multi-billion dollar buisness and give them soverignty within this nation because people take the attitude we owe from past wrong doings you are facilitating a monster, I would just like to ask Alan what percentage of the billions does your family recieve each month from being a member of the nation, whoops I guess mines in the mail too...........wait a minute......."ole whitey" slapped my great great grandfather as a boy so he would learn english......theres gotta be a civial rights law suit in there some where.......Im gonna get me that big f%@^$#!~ canoe with the triple SC's.........wadonk........ :cry:

[Boatcop]

I would just like to ask Alan what percentage of the billions does your family recieve each month from being a member of the nation,
Me? None. My great x 7 Grandfather debauched one of his uncle's Ottawa slave girls on Mackinac Island in the mid 1700's, and begat my Great X 6 Grandfather. That's the extent of Native Blood in my heritage..
My Wife is the Cherokee Citizen, and she also gets no benefit from the CN. Except Tribal Hiring preference and Health care at the Indian Hospital, which is provided to members of any federally recognized tribe.
As far as the billions owed Native Americans for land, oil and mineral leases, I re-checked my sources, and found out it is closer to 127 Billion. Just today (7/24) Congress is close to settling the suit for 8 billion. How and who will get the money is beyond me. I don't know how many, if any, Cherokees would be eligible, since they signed those rights away, under the Dawes act which dissolved the Cherokee "Reservation" at the turn of the Century (1900 +/- )