Torque Converter for V-Drive

[namtra]

I'm running a 24 foot Campbell and would like to know what the right Torque Converter is for the TH400 I am running. There is one in the boat now, but it's so old it's hard to decypher what it is. Any tips. The Motor is making about 650 hp and we have removed first gear out of the trans. Thanks.

[lucky]

put a new drive plate in it and don't run a converter - go to Rex on line cataloge -- less moving parts = good

[RUSHIN ROULETTE]

Lucky is right.... :)

[Unchained]

http://namtramedia.com/ttkong.gif
That motor looks like 650 hp per bank.
Those are some big ass compressors.

[enzo]

That motor looks like 650 hp per bank.
Those are some big ass compressors.
Try 1500 hp per bank. watch the video on the dyno www.nelsonracingengines.com

[lilrick]

I'm running a 24 foot Campbell and would like to know what the right Torque Converter is for the TH400 I am running. There is one in the boat now, but it's so old it's hard to decypher what it is. Any tips. The Motor is making about 650 hp and we have removed first gear out of the trans. Thanks.
from what I've been told.....A converter is better because of the added coolng capacity. (I think they hold about three quarts or so). The TC is not an ordinary truck conveter. The way I understand it is that they gut the inside of the converter and weld it back up making it direct drive so to speak, there is no stall. Also, they add length to the (spline hub or whatever it's called) to compensatefor the thickness of the motorplate you are using. I just ordered one for $125.00

[enzo]

ordered it from?

[lilrick]

put a new drive plate in it and don't run a converter - go to Rex on line cataloge -- less moving parts = good
I'm not sure I understand how a torque converter adds more parts than the adapter thingie. Am I forgetting something?:idea: :confused:

[lilrick]

ordered it from?
Jerry's transmission....I forget where I put the #, but I'll get it up here today. They are very familiar with boat trannies. They are in so cal, where are you?

[enzo]

San Diego,
the only thing the converter adds is weight though - with the inertia created by spinning the fluid and the converter - its actually dragging on the motor further, sounds like a direct link with lighter weight would be fine too? wouldn't you agree.

[lilrick]

San Diego,
the only thing the converter adds is weight though - with the inertia created by spinning the fluid and the converter - its actually dragging on the motor further, sounds like a direct link with lighter weight would be fine too? wouldn't you agree.
makes perfect sense to me....:D

[InKahntrol]

from what I've been told.....A converter is better because of the added coolng capacity. (I think they hold about three quarts or so). The TC is not an ordinary truck conveter. The way I understand it is that they gut the inside of the converter and weld it back up making it direct drive so to speak, there is no stall. Also, they add length to the (spline hub or whatever it's called) to compensatefor the thickness of the motorplate you are using. I just ordered one for $125.00
That's not right. Even if they gut the inside and weld it back together, it just adds extra weight. Plus, it would sap a lot of power having to spool up a big steel doughnut filled with oil every time you mashed the gas. Much better to go with something light and strong, like a three-fingered coupler from Hughes or Art Carr. If you want extra oil capacity for cooling, run a finned deep pan. I just posted some ordering info for that stuff in the other thread on this topic.
Dan

[enzo]

My thouughts exactly Kahn - the closer you get to assimilating a direct drive the more performance you will get.

[lucky]

I'm not sure I understand how a torque converter adds more parts than the adapter thingie. Am I forgetting something?:idea: :confused:
take one apart - or bettter yet get a motor that will destroy one - then you wlll find out about all the moving parts in a conveter -- jet boy :)

[InKahntrol]

Exactly. With my latest setup, I acutally tried using a Sprint Car coupler, which is basically a splined shaft that sticks into the front of the trans on one end, and a six-bolt flange that attaches to the crank on the other.
Unfortunately, it didn't work out. Because I had the block line-bored, the centerline of the crank is up a little higher than the centerline of the trans, and it loaded the trans pump, which kept blowing up transmissions. The three-fingered coupler I used in my last boat attaches to the flexplate, instead of the crank, which gives it enough wiggle-room to last over time. I'm putting one of those back on now.
Dan

[63stevens]

If you are looking for all the power you can get the coupling that Rex, Artcarr, etc. sell. If power is not your concern the locked up converter is alot cheaper. I have the converter in my 63 stevens that has been locked up . They can use a smaller converter reducing the rotating mass. I think mine is a 10 converter that is locked up. The converter is about $125 compared to the other drive that is $300-400

[InKahntrol]

I just paid $250 for a custom made one from Hughes.

[Oldsquirt]

Unfortunately, it didn't work out. Because I had the block line-bored, the centerline of the crank is up a little higher than the centerline of the trans, and it loaded the trans pump, which kept blowing up transmissions. The three-fingered coupler I used in my last boat attaches to the flexplate, instead of the crank, which gives it enough wiggle-room to last over time. I'm putting one of those back on now.
Dan
Some offset dowels and a little work with a dial indicator and you could have that thing re-indexed. Eliminate problem for good.

[GofastRacer]

I just got this one from Hughes, $180!..
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15899&stc=1

[lilrick]

lots of good input!! thanks guys :D

[Marty Gras]

I've used the three finger coupler made by A1 Transmissions for over 35 years. It works! 3 bolts (1/2" grade 8) and a good alignment, makes it happen. Have never broken any in over (aprox) 50 boats, including 1550hp ski racers, and a wild turbocharged drag hydro. The Art Carr "splined tube" rests on the front pump seal when not in use. It's loose fit (to cover poor alignment) makes this problem possable. Park the boat for a few months and you have a trans leak. Big heavy ol' converters are 'not the way to go for any boat application'. The A1 coupler was $165.00 retail! It's a nice deal. "Try it you'll like it".

[sawtooth]

My Dad just got his 2 from Hughes (the three finger type for the shorty PG) for his Campbell 28'. He called Hughes and they were very helpful, I think they were $240.00 ea. The boat had converters in it and I don't think they were the "gutted" type, they weighed a ton even after they were drained. I have always been told/heard that centrifugal weight is one of the biggest HP killers.

[InKahntrol]

I've used the three finger coupler made by A1 Transmissions for over 35 years. It works! 3 bolts (1/2" grade 8) and a good alignment, makes it happen. Have never broken any in over (aprox) 50 boats, including 1550hp ski racers, and a wild turbocharged drag hydro. The Art Carr "splined tube" rests on the front pump seal when not in use. It's loose fit (to cover poor alignment) makes this problem possable. Park the boat for a few months and you have a trans leak. Big heavy ol' converters are 'not the way to go for any boat application'. The A1 coupler was $165.00 retail! It's a nice deal. "Try it you'll like it".
You're absolutely right. In fact, Marv at A1 built the trans in my boat, and I used one of his three-finger couplers in my Nordic for 10 years and never had a problem. Here's the thing: they're not making them anymore. Marv is the one who sold me the direct coupler thing instead. So, since they don't make it anymore, the next place I called was Hughes, and they were SUPER cool. A little more pricey, but its worth it.
As for offset dowel pins and a dial indicator, that would fix the problem. Unfortunately, with a twin turbo setup I've got plumbing everywhere, and pulling the motor is sort of a big deal. Since I finished the boat in May and have yet to use it for a full weekend without the trans wiping out, I just want to get this thing fixed and in the water, ya know?

[DUCKY]

I just got this one from Hughes, $180!..
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15899&stc=1
I had one of those on my old biesemeyer hydro with SBC/Powerglide. It worked great and around $200 from Hughes.

[shirkey4750]

Interesting post, I run the six bolt flange type on my powerglide in the Howard,after a hard pass the trans acts like it is out fluid and will do nothing but rev the motor. Give it a few minutes and everything goes back to normal. I run an extra deep pan, that has an extra two quarts in it. I also have the three fingered connecter. Would using it make a difference?

[VD CRUISER]

I've been using a welded up converter type in my Howard, with turbo 400, for 23 years, only thing I've had to do was have the drive snout replaced, it cracked and was leaking a little fluid, about 4 years ago. Afraid to say this, but the trans has not been touched. Howard Brown sent it, uninstalled, with the boat. I believe it came from C&O Transmissions in Hawthorne.

[GofastRacer]

Interesting post, I run the six bolt flange type on my powerglide in the Howard,after a hard pass the trans acts like it is out fluid and will do nothing but rev the motor. Give it a few minutes and everything goes back to normal. I run an extra deep pan, that has an extra two quarts in it. I also have the three fingered connecter. Would using it make a difference?
Sounds like you're aireating the oil and loosing pressure, had that problem in a race car back in the day, took two quarts out and no more problems. Found out that under exceleration the oil would climb up the back of the pan into the rotating parts!..

[shirkey4750]

Thanks Gofast, will give it a try. Now if it will just quit raining.

[Schiada76]

The spline drive/dampner plate that Rex has is supposed to provide a little shock cushioning, the direct drives from Hughes or TCI work fine but the quaility of the Hughes is way above the TCI deal.

[InKahntrol]

Got an update on my deal... I ended up needing an off-the-shelf three-finger coupler from Hughes for a 1/4" motor plate, not a custom job. Total cost: $165. Not too shabby.

[DUCKY]

Interesting post, I run the six bolt flange type on my powerglide in the Howard,after a hard pass the trans acts like it is out fluid and will do nothing but rev the motor. Give it a few minutes and everything goes back to normal. I run an extra deep pan, that has an extra two quarts in it. I also have the three fingered connecter. Would using it make a difference?
The filter/pickup may have come off or may be too far from the bottom of the pan.....
You may also consider running engine oil in it instead of ATF. I've always used 5-30 mobil 1 synthetic in my boat trannys. It doesn't foam like ATF,it lubricates much better, and it's more resistant to thermal breakdown.

[enzo]

Helped Namtra get the trans out today - we checked the pressure prior to pulling it and it was all straight (we think). What kind of pressure is deemed normal on a th 400 - in neutral and in gear?
The old torque converter was a beast - it weighed a ton, I think the Hughes deal is the way to go. Hopefully it will be back in the boat before next weekend.

[InKahntrol]

The filter/pickup may have come off or may be too far from the bottom of the pan.....
You may also consider running engine oil in it instead of ATF. I've always used 5-30 mobil 1 synthetic in my boat trannys. It doesn't foam like ATF,it lubricates much better, and it's more resistant to thermal breakdown.
That's an interesting idea... what's the downside? Is there one? How does this compare to using an expensive anti-foaming ATF like Redline?

[DUCKY]

I don't think there is one. A good tranny builder once explained that ATF has tons of detergents in it for keeping the inside of the converter clean, because the smallest amount of build-up will screw it up, especially if it's a lockup unit like on the newer cars. But when you are using a auto trans like a "clutchless manual", with extra clutch packs to prevent slip, and no converter to create excessive heat, all you need is hydraulic pressure and lubricant. Synthetic motor oil serves both purposes, while having a few positive side effects like slightly higher pressure (5-30 is just a little thicker than ATF which applies more pressure to the bands and clutches), virtually no foaming, and it's more stable under heat.

[Schiada76]

Helped Namtra get the trans out today - we checked the pressure prior to pulling it and it was all straight (we think). What kind of pressure is deemed normal on a th 400 - in neutral and in gear?
The old torque converter was a beast - it weighed a ton, I think the Hughes deal is the way to go. Hopefully it will be back in the boat before next weekend.
Make sure you talk to them about the correct endplay, depends on the motor plate thickness.

[enzo]

so - does anyone know what the right transmission pressure should be??

[Marty Gras]

Dirt, particals, sludge, and burnt oil cause problems in the Valve body and the Governor, not the convertor. Sure passages in the housing could get clogged, but the fluid would be really burned up by then. The other problem can be solved by blocking the original "auto" filter hole, which is at the rear of the trans. Since you are going the other way, make a hole in the filter at the flywheel end, with the original hole sealed shut. I have used T400's for decades with the 1-2 shift valve pinned, along with other mods in the valve body. The mods allow almost direct line pressure to apply the upshift clutches (no slip). This also allows the driver to put the trans in Drive and not take his hand off of the wheel to manually upshift. Those of you that have 45's or larger gears know what I'm talking about. With larger gears, I would use a "line lock switch" to up and down shift at will. This is done with the "kick down detent switch" located in the valve body. If the Hughes coupler works the same as the old A1, then it's the best way to go. I just want the least amount of rotating weight on ALL components thruout the entire boat.

[enzo]

so are you saying there is a way to set up a direct drive while eliminating 1st gear and have it shift automatically from 2nd to 3rd?

[Marty Gras]

Yes, didn't I say that? I've tested it; 1554HP turbo, and 1200+ blown, that is all that I know. "You may choose to write your name in the book of life, with a fine quill pen or a melted crayon, it's up to YOU". This is not rocket science, back in the 70's and 80's fuel funny cars used T-400 transmissions, why can't some boaters keep one running for more than 1 hour in their boat? I have a Chevy dually that has 498,000 miles on the original T- 400, oh and it's always been a turbocharged work truck!

[enzo]

ok thanks for your feedback Marty - I wasn't questioning you - just asking YOU to clarify - so thank you for your response