uhh, wrong bearings?

[shaun]

I was reading the howto hotrod you big block chevy book and it was talking about bearings. It says the part that goes in the cap should be grooved and the part that goes in the block should not. I bought federal Mogul bearings and the bottoms have a slight groove in them. Are these the wrong bearings to use? The book showed GM bearings and one side had a groove and the other had nothing. Mine are not fully grooved but i'm not sure still. The bearings i pulled out of it looked like the ones in the book...
New bearing box, with PN
http://reitanfamily.com/gallery/d/10357-1/DSCF3888.JPG
Pic of new bearings..
http://reitanfamily.com/gallery/d/10360-2/DSCF3891.JPG
pic of old bearings.
http://reitanfamily.com/gallery/d/10351-1/DSCF3886.JPG
Also just to confirm the rod bearings shouldnt have a groove right? My rod bearings are speed pro pn# 8-7200CH

[Moneypitt]

I think you have it backwards. The idea of additional oil flow with "full groove" mains has it's place, but you also loose alot of support area in the lower bearing. If you look at the new bearings you will notice that the tangs will not allow you to put them in the wrong place. Use the the ones with oil holes and grooves in the block, and the non grooved, non holed, ones in the caps. The book you are refering to clearly states that full grooved bearing in a BBC is a mistake. One thing you might look into is the hardness of the bearing material. I know years ago, prior to the clevite type, it was a crap shoot as to how hard the bearings were, and soft bearings have a habit of "grabbing" the rod throws and spinning in the rods. You might go to a tech site for the brand you're using just to see how they compare with the "clevite" types..........MP

[shaun]

Your right, i had it backwards when i wrote this, i just wasnt paying attention. My concern is that the bearing thats suppose to be non grooved on mine are slightly grooved for a bit and then graduly go flat. Thats what i'm wondering if is ok to use.

[Moneypitt]

Your right, i had it backwards when i wrote this, i just wasnt paying attention. My concern is that the bearing thats suppose to be non grooved on mine are slightly grooved for a bit and then graduly go flat. Thats what i'm wondering if is ok to use.
\
Yes............MP

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Should be no problem.
When I rebuilt mine, I was advised to get Clevite 77's as a preference, so I did, but yours are fine I am sure.

[GofastRacer]

I've used nothing but Clevites but you need to get the right ones for your application or you could have serious problems!..
Clevite! (http://www.engineparts.com/motorhead/techstuff/brgselec.html)

[RICHARD TILL]

gofastracer told you right. for a BB chevy i`ve used cleveite bearing part # MS2829P bearings for 35 years and never had a problem. would`nt consider anything else. they look like your old bearings.

[Fiat48]

That is a 141M Federal bearing. Clevite equivalent but 3/4 groove. No problem.
Those old bearings look good enough to put back in.

[shaun]

Think i do have a problem, the old bearings say L-010 on them and i think the crank was turned .010 on the main. I took a caliper to it and if i remember correctly the measurment came out to 2.347 (my dumb ass didnt write it down). The first machinest i used told me it was std/std. Not only that the more i get into this the more that cast crank is getting at me. Anybody have a steel crank they want to sell? :cry:

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Dude, that cast steel crank is tougher than you think. Just how hard do you plan on spinning it. The local performance business men I have spoken to here have had zero issues with me pushing a 454 to 500+ HP NA on my cast crank as long as I am planning on keeping the revs down under 6-large.

[shaun]

A few have said i'd be fine, few said i'd be pushing the limits and a few said to buy a steel crank or cast steel crank. I did not know this at the time of having everthing balanced but i guess this crank is cast iron. My thinking here is i would rather spend the money now to correct a potential problem than having it possibly cause more damage. I like to stand on the throttle so i'll be working this motor pretty good. I'm not really sure what i'm going to be putting out, a few i've talked to think 500-550 or so...
i couldnt find the numbers on my crank on mortecs site. Here's a few pics..
http://reitanfamily.com/gallery/d/6215-2/IM000880.jpg
http://reitanfamily.com/gallery/d/6218-2/IM000881.jpg
http://reitanfamily.com/gallery/d/6158-2/IM000840.jpg

[WannabeRacing]

I have seen many a cast crank run REAL hard for many years. When you get it set up right, and proper clearances, and a great balance job, the cast crank should do fine. It is when you throw them together without a good balance job, etc. that you find the weakness. But a good forged crank is always a good investment if you do have the $$.

[shaun]

I was thinking of just getting a cast steel crank as i hear they are good up to around 700hp. I was looking at at both these...
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SCA%2D910454L&N=700+400063+4294908216+4294840133+4294871923+115&autoview=sku
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=ESP%2D104544000&N=700+400075+4294908216+4294840133+4294889122+4294 838995+115&autoview=sku

[Oldsquirt]

If you are going to go to the trouble of changing cranks now, go with FORGED not cast.
The number you have a pic of is most likely a shop's job# or invoice number, not a part or casting number.

[shaun]

If you are going to go to the trouble of changing cranks now, go with FORGED not cast.
The number you have a pic of is most likely a shop's job# or invoice number, not a part or casting number.
Forged is 3 times the price of a cast steel. Other than strength what advantages will forged provide? The cast steel should handle my build from what i'm being told, the forged steel is probably way over kill right?
The number i was searching for is the number that was in the last pic, the one thats stamped into the crank.

[Moneypitt]

Forged is 3 times the price of a cast steel. Other than strength what advantages will forged provide? The cast steel should handle my build from what i'm being told, the forged steel is probably way over kill right?
The number i was searching for is the number that was in the last pic, the one thats stamped into the crank.
Cast steel? Never heard of a cast steel crank........The crank number you're looking for will be in the rough area of the crank. Something like 7416 or 1063, or a long casting number, about 7 digets long. .......MP

[shaun]

Thats what the links above say, both scat and eagle say cast steel.... From what i've seen looking around there's cast iron and cast steel... i know nothing about this, maybe they are the same? dont think so though...

[motormonkey]

You might be thinking nodular iron. Its stonger than cast crank but not as strong as forged.

[GofastRacer]

There is a difference, OEM cast cranks are cast iron, Eagles are cast steel which is molten steel poured into molds, a step up from cast iron and a pretty good deal for the $$$$$$$$!....

[shaun]

I'm going to attempt to call scat and eagle tomorrow to try to figure this all out. If the cast steel cranks support up to 700hp'ish then it sounds like that is the best solution for my build, it's strong enough but not too expensive.
The guy who did my machining (jim @ orange engine up in aneheim) recommended i just go with the scat cast steel.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

My bigger concern, since you are worrying about things, is what rod bolts are you living with?
The small chevy (3/8" knurled shank) bolts are decently adequate for a low-HP engine but even GM, once they started to push 400HP, went to the monsterous 7/16" Boron Steel bolts. You don't need those but I'd go to ARP for a good set of 3/8" replacement bolts and have the rods remachined. Cost me $88 here plus the bolts.
I decided the 8740 Chrome Molly Wave-Loc bolts were plenty for my aplication. PN 135-6402, Summit has for $55. Jeggs, $46

[GUGS102]

Crank - 454, correct
rods?
cam?
heads?
Exhaust?
Drive, impeller Size/ratio?
All of this will also determine what you need. You'll also have to rebalance the combo once you get the new crank. I went with SCAT assembly (crank, pistons, rods) and we had to take a bunch out of the crank to make weight but my shop balances within a tenth of a gram.
Gugs

[shaun]

My bigger concern, since you are worrying about things, is what rod bolts are you living with?
The small chevy (3/8" knurled shank) bolts are decently adequate for a low-HP engine but even GM, once they started to push 400HP, went to the monsterous 7/16" Boron Steel bolts. You don't need those but I'd go to ARP for a good set of 3/8" replacement bolts and have the rods remachined. Cost me $88 here plus the bolts.
I decided the 8740 Chrome Molly Wave-Loc bolts were plenty for my aplication. PN 135-6402, Summit has for $55. Jeggs, $46
Thanks for the heads up. I did already buy the ARP Rod Bolts - Pro Series - BB-Chevy, 3/8" and had them put in and had the rod's resized.

[shaun]

Crank - 454, correct
rods?
cam?
heads?
Exhaust?
Drive, impeller Size/ratio?
All of this will also determine what you need. You'll also have to rebalance the combo once you get the new crank. I went with SCAT assembly (crank, pistons, rods) and we had to take a bunch out of the crank to make weight but my shop balances within a tenth of a gram.
Gugs
Rods are just the stock truck rods that where in this motor.
Cam is from chris straub, gave him all my specs and he designed a cam
Heads are 990's w/ some port work and larger intake valves
exhaust are the std over transom basset short headers
impeller is a berk A

[shaun]

Just called scat, they are telling me 700hp for the cast steel crank in case anybody is interested.

[GUGS102]

My opinon - put together what you have, that crank will hold no problem. Putting in a forged crank with truck rods does not make financial sense. Your rods in that combo would be the weak link anyway. (not to say they will not last for years) Just saying that spending the dough on the crank woud be excessive. Since you already have the combo balanced and ready to rock, put it together, I've run stock parts VERY hard with no problems. Just make sure you have adequate clearances, forged slugs, and good rod bolts. For piece of mind, throw a set of arp main studs in and forget about it. Hope it rocks when you get it going!!
An "A" with that combo will turn under 6000 anyway so you'll be fine.