New to V-Drives- Have a question

[mrsbaracuda]

We just bought a '76 18' Sanger flatbottom with a 468 blown BBC. We have never had nor driven one before. The question I have is where should I run the cavatation plates to keep it from porpoising? (The T-handle is about 1/4 of the way up.) Or do you just ride or accelerate thru it? We have a STV Outboard that does the same thing around 65/70 MPH, with this we just accelerate thru it and it takes care of itself.
baracuda

[Kindsvater Flat]

NO! NO! NO! Don't try and power through it. Ever see a flying wing? Find someone near you that has a v-drive and let them take you for a ride. A T-handle adjustment isn't fast enough when you need to drop it down. I prefer the foot pedals. Be safe rather that sorry.

[mrsbaracuda]

We have the foot pedal for adjustment as well. Do you use the foot pedal versus the T handle to bring the nose down when it starts to porpoise? Not to many people here have V-drive knowledge to be able to go on a ride with.

[Kindsvater Flat]

I only have have the foot pedals. I start with pedal down and raise as I pick up speed. It will get light and loose when the plate is raised. When in doubt run the plate down until you get used to it. Once you get a feel for how the boat handles you will feel more confident. It all takes time. It took quite a few outing before I felt confident about raising the pedal.
About the porpoising, if the plate doesn't take care of it, you will have to use motor placement.

[infotraker]

I have a 68 Schiada (owned sin 68) with a 454 Chysler, dual tunnel. Top speed is about 80. I have a t handle only and control the porpoiseing pretty well by lowering the plate. You need to get the plate adjusted correctly to begin with by adjusting the turnbuckles. I leveled the plate and then turned down the right side a little towards the outside to handle the prop pull. There are procedures somewhere on a forum on how to set the plate intially.

[mrsbaracuda]

Kindsvater Flat,
Thank you for the input. The way to getting better I guess is to practice. Thru trial and error, hopefully more trial than error!
OOps got to get the smilies down!! Wrong one
[This message has been edited by mrsbaracuda (edited June 02, 2002).]

[mrsbaracuda]

Originally posted by infotraker:
I have a 68 Schiada (owned sin 68) with a 454 Chysler, dual tunnel. Top speed is about 80. I have a t handle only and control the porpoiseing pretty well by lowering the plate. You need to get the plate adjusted correctly to begin with by adjusting the turnbuckles. I leveled the plate and then turned down the right side a little towards the outside to handle the prop pull. There are procedures somewhere on a forum on how to set the plate intially.
Thanks!! I will try and find the procedures if it is on this forum.

[058]

If the boat is porpoising adjust the plate at the turnbuckles first before you move anything. Everyone has their own way of adjusting the plate so it would help to talk to a few people who know what they are doing but you may get several opinions. The only thing you should use the T handle is for cruising to lock the plate down so your leg doesn't get tired.

[Costello]

Bernie, JoeDon, Jetboatguru, 126 driver, LeeSS, SuperDave, and maybe a few others on here have all raced flats and should be of help. V-Drive Tom is also very knowledgeable on a solid setup. The porpoise problem is more than likely a combo of plate setting, engine placement, horsepower, gear, and propeller. The measurements, honest ball park HP rating, gear ratio, and dimensions of your prop are going to be needed for you to recieve adequate guidance either here or from someone local to you.

[superdave013]

It takes seat time to drive a flat well. Flats are unlike any other as it takes lots of driver input to make one run / ride well. They will all porpoise at some point with the plate in a fixed spot. Forget that tee handle for speed runs and just use the down pedal. That way you can make quick, instant plate adjustments. Stay off the up pedal for now too if it has one. The tee handle is only for crusing around and pulling skiers.
You are starting off with a boat that has some power so don't try to be a hero right away. When you whack it from an idle you will want to be giving it lots of plate right now. Then as it starts to set you will want to let up on the plate. Don't go WOT with the plate all the way down as it might want to bow steer. At WOT it should ride with no propoising and set nice and flat with you foot pretty much off the plate.
If it does not don't start cranking on the turnbukles right away. Let us know what it's doing and we can give you some input.
When you get some seat time then we will have the world famous JetBoatGuru explaine how to "Hang Fin" and not do da doinke doink when getting out of the hole.
I know those STVs are pretty bad ass but I bet you about craped your pants when you wacked the throttle on the flat for the first time. Flats are very fun to drive on smooth water. You will love it when ya get it figured out.
Is your boat a true flat or is it a runnerbottom (little 5/8" or so tunnles)?

[hulshot]

454 with a 6:71 makes a consevative 600/700 Hp depending on parts. Put some 15-18% gears in the box with a 11x16 prop, pop it into gear, mash the down pedal, stuff your foot through the carbs, when it burns out and lays over release the down pedal fairly quickly, now hold the up pedal and hang on for a 9-10 second pass.
Oohh, did you say you were new, my mistake, play it safe and have the plate set by people who have run flats befor. True flats and Runner bottoms handle very different. Be paitient and dont hang the nose out there if your uncertain of the handling or water conditions. T handles are for skiing and slow tho moderate speeds not hot laps. The first part was a crack at some humor.

[mrsbaracuda]

Superdave013,
Boy did you hit the nail on the head when you said 'having the crap scared out of you'.
We had it out for the first time this past Friday, the only day that was nice, I put my foot into it only a quarter of the way (throttle) and had the cav plate set with the T-handle 1/4 of the way up. I am used to alot of acceleration and speed with the STV but this was totally off the wall. I can definatley tell that it is going to take alot of seat time to master this one.
Oh yes I almost forgot it is a true flat. There are some pictures in Readers Rides.
Costello,
I believe it is running about 700/800 hp, prop dimensions are 11.5x15 Stelling and I am not sure about the gear ratio. Does this help?
Hulshot,
I like your sense of humor. Thank god you get more cautious with age, well maybe not TOO cautious.
Thanks for all the info
baracuda

[pgf127rt]

Originally posted by mrsbaracuda:
Superdave013,
Boy did you hit the nail on the head when you said 'having the crap scared out of you'.
We had it out for the first time this past Friday, the only day that was nice, I put my foot into it only a quarter of the way (throttle) and had the cav plate set with the T-handle 1/4 of the way up. I am used to alot of acceleration and speed with the STV but this was totally off the wall. I can definatley tell that it is going to take alot of seat time to master this one.
Oh yes I almost forgot it is a true flat. There are some pictures in Readers Rides.
Costello,
I believe it is running about 700/800 hp, prop dimensions are 11.5x15 Stelling and I am not sure about the gear ratio. Does this help?
Hulshot,
I like your sense of humor. Thank god you get more cautious with age, well maybe not TOO cautious.
Thanks for all the info
baracuda
baracuda, in my opinion you should forget the T handle and keep your left foot in constant contact with the down pedal, start out with just enough power to get the boat to get up to planing speed and learn what it will do when you gas it and again always in contact with the down pedal, this is where you learn to control the attitude of the nose, those banzai take-offs will either get you very wet or tossed out and a wrecked boat, learn to crawl before you run, and have a safe and happy v-drive experience.
What are a do you live in? We have members from all over the country any of whom would be more than willing to help you get the boat setup where it is driveable and safe.

[rrrr]

Yeah, PGF127rt doesn't know it yet but when I get mine put together he is gonna be my instructor.
I have really enjoyed this board, great advice, stories, and humor. I can tell the people are really quality folks looking out for each other. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

[DetroitJim]

Baracuda, I see you bought Joe G's boat, I very nearly flew out to Phoenix to buy it. Congratulations, I can say that from the pics he sent me that boat is one of the nicest rig jobs I've seen. If I am not mistaken, you have a 5/8 runner bottom hull. You should be able to run 100 once you get familiar with it. Be careful and stay safe. That wing will get you in big trouble with too much up pedal at WOT.
DJ

[V-Drive Tom]

mrsbaracuda, Welcome to the fine art of blown flatbottom driving! Everything thats been said so far are pionts to remember. Plate adjustment should be done with your handle all the way forward.(because when your left peddle is up, thats as high as you want your to be,AND everything down from THAT is MORE control.) With your handle in the forward position, put a straight edge on the bottom of the hull just ahead of the plate and sticking out to the end of the plate.
On a boat like yours a smart adjustment will be about 1/16 higher than the straight edge at the end of the plate.(It would be 0 if it perfectly followed the bottom of the boat.) Rolling the right corner down a little can also help in your case.
You need to make sure you have GOOD spring pressure on your peddle.
This is a good basic position to go out with and can change when you know how the boat reacts. That left peddle will COMPLETLY control the boat, so be carful, DON'T take your foot off it!! There is lot more to this but thats good for now! TOM.. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/eek.gif http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Jetboatguru]

Try not to make it look like this
http://free.***boat.net/gallery/Raceboat_Arenas/Drag_Boats/drboat12.JPG
This is not good.

[mrsbaracuda]

Originally posted by DetroitJim:
Baracuda, I see you bought Joe G's boat, I very nearly flew out to Phoenix to buy it. Congratulations, I can say that from the pics he sent me that boat is one of the nicest rig jobs I've seen. If I am not mistaken, you have a 5/8 runner bottom hull. You should be able to run 100 once you get familiar with it. Be careful and stay safe. That wing will get you in big trouble with too much up pedal at WOT.
DJ
DJ,
Thanks for the compliment. Yes we did get this from Joe G. and so far we think we made a good investment.
What deterimines a 5/8 Runnerbottom? By looking at the bottom it is flat all the way accross? Now as for the wing could you elaborate, please?! http://free.***boat.net/ubb/confused.gif
baracuda

[mrsbaracuda]

Originally posted by pgf127rt:
baracuda, in my opinion you should forget the T handle and keep your left foot in constant contact with the down pedal, start out with just enough power to get the boat to get up to planing speed and learn what it will do when you gas it and again always in contact with the down pedal, this is where you learn to control the attitude of the nose, those banzai take-offs will either get you very wet or tossed out and a wrecked boat, learn to crawl before you run, and have a safe and happy v-drive experience.
What are a do you live in? We have members from all over the country any of whom would be more than willing to help you get the boat setup where it is driveable and safe.
We live in Great Falls, Montana. If there is someone from around here that I don't know about please let me know. I apprectiate all the advise I can get. I also figured it out that it is going to take seat time before I get too cocky.
baracuda

[mrsbaracuda]

Originally posted by V-Drive Tom:
mrsbaracuda, Welcome to the fine art of blown flatbottom driving! Everything thats been said so far are pionts to remember. Plate adjustment should be done with your handle all the way forward.(because when your left peddle is up, thats as high as you want your to be,AND everything down from THAT is MORE control.) With your handle in the forward position, put a straight edge on the bottom of the hull just ahead of the plate and sticking out to the end of the plate.
On a boat like yours a smart adjustment will be about 1/16 higher than the straight edge at the end of the plate.(It would be 0 if it perfectly followed the bottom of the boat.) Rolling the right corner down a little can also help in your case.
You need to make sure you have GOOD spring pressure on your peddle.
This is a good basic position to go out with and can change when you know how the boat reacts. That left peddle will COMPLETLY control the boat, so be carful, DON'T take your foot off it!! There is lot more to this but thats good for now! TOM.. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/eek.gif http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif
Tom,
Thank you for the warm welcome. I believe this is something I am really going to enjoy. The peddle does have good spring pressure on it.
http://free.***boat.net/ubb/confused.gif I do have another question, about the prop, Stelling 11.5x15 2 blade, is this a good or bad prop? I know that it is REALLY sharp (I cut my finger on it last night, oops) Now when it comes to the STV I know what is good and bad, but with this V-drive I haven't got a clue.
Also, how do you determine the gear ratio you are running?
baracuda

[mrsbaracuda]

Originally posted by Jetboatguru:
Try not to make it look like this
http://free.***boat.net/gallery/Raceboat_Arenas/Drag_Boats/drboat12.JPG
This is not good.
No that definatley would not be good. Like to keep the flat side down, not paticularly wanting to go airborne at this time. What did this guy do to make it go wrong? I take it that he is just coming out of the hole? http://free.***boat.net/ubb/eek.gif
baracuda

[DetroitJim]

http://free.***boat.net/gallery/Reader_Rides/V-Drives/tn_30277115rzVICHrJTh_ph2.JPG
http://free.***boat.net/gallery/Reader_Rides/V-Drives/tn_joe2.JPG
Here is a pic Joe sent me, I was told is was a runner bottom, meaning there is a shallow tunnel on either side of the centerline of the boat. The pic is in reader rides if you can't see it clearly. By the way, how do you resize an image so it comes out right on this board??
[This message has been edited by DetroitJim (edited June 03, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by DetroitJim (edited June 03, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by DetroitJim (edited June 03, 2002).]

[mrsbaracuda]

Originally posted by DetroitJim:
http://free.***boat.net/gallery/Reader_Rides/V-Drives/tn_30277115rzVICHrJTh_ph2.JPG
Here is a pic Joe sent me, I was told is was a runner bottom, meaning there is a shallow tunnel on either side of the centerline of the boat. The pic is in reader rides if you can't see it clearly. By the way, how do you resize an image so it comes out right on this board??
[This message has been edited by DetroitJim (edited June 03, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by DetroitJim (edited June 03, 2002).]
DJ,
I beleive I stand corrected, it does look to be a 5/8 runnerbotom. (Boy, I actually had to work and go out and look at it a little closer) I guess at this point it doesn't really matter because I don't know how to run either of them. No time like the present to learn though.
baracuda

[PGF545]

Welcome Baracuda, That is what we like to call in the flatbottom world a Doink....those are not really fun...lol. That boat is really fast and the only times that I have done something like that is when I let out to early on the down plate, and then the prop hooked up causing the boat to take flight...now that will make you crap in your pants. But on the Doink scale I would give that one a 10...that's a Super Doink. On the prop, call V-drive Tom I got one of his props last year and really picked up our boat.
Tom, I think you will be getting a call this week from Randy...I told him about the prop that we talked about and I think he is going to get one. He is trying to tune around a prop that won't do what he wants it to do...I told him to spend the money and get a good prop and then tune to match the prop...A lesson learned is a lesson tought...lol.
Bernie

[boat030]

Jetgu, that is a nice picture. can you give us all a lesson on how we can duplicate this amazing feat. Baracuda it matters quite a bit if it is a flat or a runnerbottom if it's a true flat you should just get used to the bouncin' if it's a runnerbottom then you have received alot of good advice here that will help you get down the lake. The only different advice i could give you is in one of your posts you said it was going to take you alot more seat time before you get to cocky, if you are going to be a real flat driver you have to get the science of being cocky down before you learn to drive the boat. Jetboatguru can help you with this.

[Jetboatguru]

OK 030 what gives with that last comment? We are trying to have an educational discussion here and you have to kick up dirt. You left the flat ranks to become a Hydro "point and steer-er" You sold out. I am not cocky. If anybody thinks I am cocky then please show with a thumbs up.
Bernie, the doink pictured above is one of the all time classic doinks. The boat flying out of the water was a doink as well.
Mrs Baracuda, the hardest thing Mr Baracuda is gonna have to learn is that you can't drive the boat any other speed than WOT!!!!
There is no other way. Advice from JDL and PGF545 and SUper Dave will put you in good hands. Listen and learn. If 030 tries to help, RUNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[superdave013]

Originally posted by Jetboatguru:
If anybody thinks I am cocky then please show with a thumbs up.
:d http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif :d

[superdave013]

Originally posted by superdave013:
Originally posted by Jetboatguru:
If anybody thinks I am cocky then please show with a thumbs up.
http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Jetboatguru]

Dave you accidentally clicked the thumbs button.

[pgf127rt]

Hang, at one time or another I think I remember all of us getting the dreaded SUPER DOINK, the only problem I had was mine came about half track, but that one of Dago Red is a classic, I have it saved on my website.
Barracuda, that is a beautiful boat that will give many thrills, good luck.

[boat030]

Jetgu don't get your panty's in a bunch, i was just havin' a little fun. actually i was trying to see if you had fully recuperated from rick trying to trade paint with you last weekend at 1/2 track http://free.***boat.net/ubb/eek.gif don't be so sure i'm a sell out remember i am a true boat ***** you don't know what i might be driving next.

[mrsbaracuda]

Originally posted by boat030:
Jetgu, that is a nice picture. can you give us all a lesson on how we can duplicate this amazing feat. Baracuda it matters quite a bit if it is a flat or a runnerbottom if it's a true flat you should just get used to the bouncin' if it's a runnerbottom then you have received alot of good advice here that will help you get down the lake. The only different advice i could give you is in one of your posts you said it was going to take you alot more seat time before you get to cocky, if you are going to be a real flat driver you have to get the science of being cocky down before you learn to drive the boat. Jetboatguru can help you with this.
boat030,
Baracuda actually has the science down on being cocky. Just don't tell him I told you OK. I do think though that the first ride brought 'down' his cockiness a knotch or two. I found out that the new 'Oh Shit' handle that he installed is anchored down real good. If it wasn't I would have found out real quick. (hehe) But we did have alot of fun.
Thanks guys for all the responses every little bit helps.
mrsbaracuda

[Costello]

Originally posted by boat030:
i am a true boat ***** you don't know what i might be driving next.
JBG, I know just the ride for 030 to step into!!... http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif Still looking out for your best interests 030.
Your Buddy,
Cos http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif

[mrsbaracuda]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by boat030:
[B]Jetgu don't get your panty's in a bunch,
I thought it was only women's panty's that get in a bunch?
Sorry couldn't resist....
mrsbaracuda

[boat030]

baracuda what does that tell you about jetgu???

[boat030]

Cos, i know i can count on you too ***** me out http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif. What's up i haven't seen you at the races in a while???

[mrsbaracuda]

Originally posted by boat030:
baracuda what does that tell you about jetgu???
boat030,
I better clarify that it was I, Mrsbaracuda, not my husband who couldn't resist that comment. Baracuda has been using my screen name because he forgot his password. Hopefully we will get that fixed for him so I don't get him into trouble when I post. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/wink.gif
(jetboatguru seems to know his stuff though)
mrsbaracuda
P.S. You boys need to play nice

[boat030]

this is nice.
I will say jetgu does know a thing or two about hangin' fin he is also my mentor in being a good boat ***** http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Jetboatguru]

Mikey, I was just funnin with you. I think you need to call a certain TAF owner about a ride. I love how you call me jetgu. It makes me feel like I just ,,,,, well, you know.
Joe Don, please explain to the Baracuda family that there is only one speed to drive a flat.

[mrsbaracuda]

Originally posted by Jetboatguru:
Joe Don, please explain to the Baracuda family that there is only one speed to drive a flat. [/B]
Jetboatguru,
I think baracuda is going to try it, but this time I think I will stay on the shore and take pictures (my hand hurts from holding on to tightly to the 'oh shit' handle, plus I wouldn't want to tear it off). Also I think I will up his life insurance policy to at least $1 mill. before he does it. What do you think? Is it enough or should I get more?
Just kidding you guys. I LOVE to go fast. My motto is the faster the better. Baracuda wants me to get to where I can drive either this or the outboard for racing. I only weigh 90lbs. so if you put me in his place that almost 100lbs less weight, which means faster. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/wink.gif
mrsbaracuda

[Costello]

Originally posted by boat030:
Cos, i know i can count on you too ***** me out http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif. What's up i haven't seen you at the races in a while???
I'm busy doing other things right now. I had wanted to come up to Red Bluff, but my little girl was sick for the first time in her life. Now Berenda is cancelled so..maybe the Finals??? There will be another open seat out there for ya soon. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif

[pgf127rt]

Originally posted by Jetboatguru:
Mikey, I was just funnin with you. I think you need to call a certain TAF owner about a ride. I love how you call me jetgu. It makes me feel like I just ,,,,, well, you know.
Joe Don, please explain to the Baracuda family that there is only one speed to drive a flat.
jetgu, yes if it were you, 545, 030 (aka known as bot ho) Tom, or a few others on here I would have told them in the beginning how we test a flat, the only way we know to find out if there is a problem is WFO, and pray before you leave cause there ain't time when trouble rears its ugly head.
BTW, you looking good in the new ride look fwd. to seeing you in the Falls.
[This message has been edited by pgf127rt (edited June 05, 2002).]

[BadBoyzSkiRacer]

hey DUDE... just give it some gas.. stop worring about how the bloody thing handles. u won't go hard if you don't scare yourself.. the are no breaks when you are racing. a good motto to use.
" HOLD MY TROPHY WHILE I KISS YOUR GIRLFRIEND

[126driver]

Yeah, just stomp on the gas without worrying about how it handles. There will be plenty of "breaks" (read: pieces). http://free.***boat.net/ubb/rolleyes.gif

[058]

Yeah, Stomp the gas and you might make the Darwin list....

[picklefork1]

"PUSH PEDAL TO FLOOR TILL YOU SEE GOD THAN RELEASE".

[PGF545]

http://photos.imageevent.com/speedfreakphotography/inbox/icons/62146dressedindrag2.jpg
Hope this works, but this is a super doink gone really bad http://free.***boat.net/ubb/frown.gif. Wonder what the guys in the other lane was thinking??? Don't let this happen at home...it gets expensive.
[This message has been edited by PGF545 (edited June 05, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by PGF545 (edited June 05, 2002).]

[Jetboatguru]

Bernie "545" I can tell you exactly what I was thinking. "Holy Shit that thing is coming towards me, I better turn." Then I thought "Damn, I hope he is alright"
Not a good day.

[PGF545]

I knew who was over there...I was just pulling your chain...lol. Call me sometime, I don't have your number anymore.

[boat030]

jetgu, i'm not letting you race my friends anymore you're 2 for 2. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/mad.gif

[Jetboatguru]

Holy shit Mikey, that is true. I just thought about that.

[hulshot]

I pulled a super Doink at Bakersfield, just as the boat layed over I mashed the up pedal before I was done burning the prop and the boat went straight up and about 40 degrees on its side. I let the boat settle and was pissed at my self for doing that and at the 1/8 mile marker I layed into it with full down pedal and clicked the lights at 132 @ 9.23. Some one a week later handed me a picture of it, what an eye opener. could have been bad.
The one problem in a runner bottom is at speed if up dont hold the up pedal down the bow will slowly rock up/down do to the air going through the runners sucking the plates down. This can get bad if you stay in it. I'm suprised no one mentioned that.
Unless your doing 150 or more the wing slows you down. Also if it is set up wrong it will be a hand full and can get you into trouble. I've seen many boats running in the 7's encluding mine with no wing.
I would seem to tthink the 11.5 diameter prop is to much transom lift and could also produce bad results in a flat of any type. I would have it reduced to a 11.0 or try another 11.0 diameter and compare. It may have had an 11.5 to combat the wing??

[Jetboatguru]

Originally posted by hulshot:
I pulled a super Doink at Bakersfield, just as the boat layed over I mashed the up pedal before I was done burning the prop and the boat went straight up and about 40 degrees on its side. I let the boat settle and was pissed at my self for doing that and at the 1/8 mile marker I layed into it with full down pedal and clicked the lights at 132 @ 9.23. Some one a week later handed me a picture of it, what an eye opener. could have been bad.
The one problem in a runner bottom is at speed if up dont hold the up pedal down the bow will slowly rock up/down do to the air going through the runners sucking the plates down. This can get bad if you stay in it. I'm suprised no one mentioned that.
Unless your doing 150 or more the wing slows you down. Also if it is set up wrong it will be a hand full and can get you into trouble. I've seen many boats running in the 7's encluding mine with no wing.
I would seem to tthink the 11.5 diameter prop is to much transom lift and could also produce bad results in a flat of any type. I would have it reduced to a 11.0 or try another 11.0 diameter and compare. It may have had an 11.5 to combat the wing??
Hulshot what was your best time slip at NJBA?
The wing is an absolute must on a lightweight flat. It makes the boat more manageable and you don't scrub ET because you have to drive it so hard. On a Pro Gas Flat that weighs #450 and runs in the 7.30s you need a wing. The wing serves 2 purposes well 3 if you throw in the "looks cool" factor. First it stabilizes the rocking from side to side. Secondly it helps plant the ass of the boat and gives lift to the nose or vice-versa.
As for the down pedal situation I have no idea what you are talking about. There are 5 or six PGF and/or Comp flats that I consider to be BAD ASS. All of these boats have one thing in common, No Up Pedal. To me, this is the reason that you see more "close calls" or saves than crashes. The foot stays on the down all the time. Come by and look at #505 or #146 or #824 all comp flats. These boats are set up on kill and leave the driver in complete and total control. With the exception of a parts failure, a crash is 100% driver error. I remember seeing your boat at CFW and if I remember right, you had some huge gear like 60's in it. I heard you crashed it and was wondering if you would, tell us what happened. If you don't want to talk about it I understand as well.

[CircleJerk]

MrsBaracuda, If you're not tired of all the BS replies, I have another for you. My wife and I race two flats here in Washington in the new Nostalgic class and we would love to help you with your new ride or just drool on it! We are in contact with a V-driveaholic near you in Helena, Mt. who would love to correspond with you. I guess there are a dozen flats in that town and over 30 in my town of Spokane. My wife said to tell you to take it easy at first and let the boat talk to you. Once you get enough seat time, it will tell you what not to do at any given time or degree of throttle pressure. I'm told people who ride horses or motorcycles or fly planes make good flat-jockeys because they can 'feel' what the thing is doing before the 'doink'!! She is in her fourth year of drag racing and second of circle racing and having a blast splashing the 'Boys'! And beating them also! I would also highly recommend coming to our first Reunion Race June15 and let the former Champions and boat racing Gurus in attendance give you hands on advise. Your boat would be very welcome at the Show and Shine and Robin is dying to give you a ride on the circle track in her Lavey-Craft. Email us for more info if interested. Jerk

[boat030]

NO UP PEDAL!!!!!!! IF YOUR BOAT SUCKS THE PLATES THEN YOU NEED BIGGER SPRINGS. for once jetgu is right http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Costello]

We just had a huge discussion about up pedals here what, 3 weeks ago?

[V-Drive Tom]

HULSHOT, Prop diameter has just about nothing to do with transom lift...
Are you sure you want to start advising here on how to run a fast runner bottom???? OORRRRR come on in and we can start talking about it. TOM.. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif PS. JETGURU, I think it was a 63% gear.

[Jetboatguru]

Circle Jerk,
Maybe I read your post wrong, but I don't think anyone has been giving out any BS to Mrs Baracuda. The people in here who have chimed in have more than just a little knowledge of driving flats. PGF127 Has run from River Racer to Pro Gas and has run in the 140's. Boat030, (granted is a weiner) has run in the high 130s and has numerous Championships Oooops I mean, Well he is damn good. SuperDave013 has driven just about everything under the sun including Blown Gas Flat. Bernie Iven (PGF545) Has probably driven more flatbottoms than all of us and has run in the 140's. V-drive Tom has forgotten more about Flat set ups than we will ever know.
I am absolutely certain that they have a little more quality instruction and advice than your wife telling her "let the boat talk to her" If I read the tone of your post wrong, I truly am sorry. It is just great that Mr and Mrs Baracuda have a place they can come to for questions and answers.

[HavasuDreamin']

Originally posted by Jetboatguru:
As for the down pedal situation I have no idea what you are talking about. There are 5 or six PGF and/or Comp flats that I consider to be BAD ASS. All of these boats have one thing in common, No Up Pedal. To me, this is the reason that you see more "close calls" or saves than crashes. The foot stays on the down all the time. Come by and look at #505 or #146 or #824 all comp flats. These boats are set up on kill and leave the driver in complete and total control. With the exception of a parts failure, a crash is 100% driver error.
First off, this is great information for me.........a person who doesn't own a flat but is dying to get one (I just need a bigger garage so I can keep the tunnel too, and need to convince the wife that it is a necessity to own a bad runnerbottom http://free.***boat.net/ubb/wink.gif )
So JBG, just to clarify, if I am looking for a bad runner (probably used and for river/lake use) the boat should only have a down peddle (no up) and if the plate is getting sucked back down .......the fix is more spring pressure in the peddle?
Do most of the used runner's out there come set up like this or are they mostly set up with down & up peddles? If they are mostly set-up with down & up, do you recommend locating one with a down set up only? Thanks in advance for the info. This is a great thread! http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif
[This message has been edited by HavasuDreamin' (edited June 06, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by HavasuDreamin' (edited June 06, 2002).]

[PGF545]

Tony, Thanks for the compliment, but I am still much a student of flatbottom driving. Everytime I get in that thing I learn something new. As for the up peddle, I used to not have a problem using the up, even though I was using it just to hold the up locked. It wasn't until we got the new prop and added some HP did I quit using the up....I now call it my NO NO peddle because everytime I tried to get on it the boat thought it was an airplane...lol. I put new springs on the plates and never had anymore problems sucking down.
Bernie

[Jetboatguru]

Havasu Dreamin, That is great that you are interested in Flats. I can help you locate one when you are ready. e mail me PGF526@aol
When we are talking about not using an up peddle we are mainly referring to flats that are making good horsepower and are running in excess of 100. However, like PGF545 stated, put on some stouter springs and the plate won't suck back down. On the river, it is usually so rough, you are not off the down all the way anyway. When a flat is properly set up there is no need or redeeming quality for an up peddle.
I knew a guy who had a major mishap with the up and the down peddles. He was at NJBA, as he left the start line he started to get pitched from his boat and his left leg got hung up between the up and the down. His body was in the water but his leg was stuck. It stretched his calf muscle 18 inches and he still limps today. I would rather see someone curl their toes over the top of the down peddle and pull back on it then reach over to another peddle. It is easier to react to a bad situation happening. My river boat has an up peddle and I forget it is there. If any of you ever get out to a race at Bakersfield, go look at the #146 boat "Flat Nasty" or Go to the #505 boat "Smackdown" Or if you live in the Midwest go look for PGF545 "Moondust" All of these boats are set up with one peddle. I know for a fact that if you were lift your foot off of the down completely at ANY GIVEN spot on the track, the boat would crash. On 505 and 146 the peddles have been custom fit to the drivers and made out of Chrome moly. Which brings up another important topic of seat placement. Save that for another thread.
Havasu dreaming shoot me an email.

[HavasuDreamin']

Thanks for the information guru. I am not ready yet, I still need to do some convincing. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/wink.gif Never the less, flats have perked my interest since I was small so it is only a matter of time. In the mean time, I like to try to learn as much as possible.
Thanks for volunteering your help in locating a rig for me. Most likely I will want either a TR-2/Tr-4 or quite possibly a Sanger bubbledeck runner. I like the looks of both of those boats a LOT. I want a stout river runner, either a blown or NA big block that will push the rig around a 115 mph or so and I want it set up to run that speed in the quarter. Even though the wings are there for a purpose, I don't want the boat to have one, so my speed will be limited based on that. However, it doesn't sound as though 115mph will require one.
Like I said, I am not ready yet, but will be lurking around the v-drive section trying to learn.
By the way, nice boat! Is it a Cole?
http://free.***boat.net/gallery/Raceboat_Arenas/Drag_Boats/jbg.JPG
[This message has been edited by HavasuDreamin' (edited June 06, 2002).]

[126driver]

Up-pedal:
http://www.dangerousaddiction.com/images/jpegs/peralta_laughlin.jpeg
[This message has been edited by 126driver (edited June 06, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by 126driver (edited June 06, 2002).]

[126driver]

Down-pedal:
http://www.dangerousaddiction.com/images/jpegs/Puddingstone_stuff.jpg
Look inside the splash. Sometimes too much down in a turn is bad for us roundy-round guys http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif
[This message has been edited by 126driver (edited June 06, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by 126driver (edited June 06, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by 126driver (edited June 06, 2002).]

[Costello]

HD, The photo above is a Wayne Mettler Canyon.
[This message has been edited by Costello (edited June 06, 2002).]

[Costello]

.
[This message has been edited by Costello (edited June 06, 2002).]

[126driver]

OK, I used to be able to post a pic.
Seriously though, even us SS guys with much less HP rarely, rarely use the up pedal. I agree 100%, much better to curl your toes over the top of the down.
Scott

[LeE ss13]

I don't know Scott ...at Long Beach, once I start the turn I stand on the Up Pedel all the way around the turn and then as the boat straightens out and starts to go skyward, I Down Pedel it back down. That way there is less drag in the water in the turn. JMO
http://free.***boat.net/gallery/Raceboat_Arenas/Circle_Racers/Long_Beach1.JPG
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LeE ss13

[mrsbaracuda]

Thanks everyone for all the useful information. We are definatley learning alot. Just a little added info we do not have an up peddal with our setup.
V-drive Tom,
My husband wanted to thank you again for the info you gave him over the phone. It is much appreciated and educational.
Circle Jerk,
Would love to meet you and your wife sometime. Right now we are making plans on going to the V-Drive Regatta at the end of July. Would love to make it your way sometime as well, but I don't think it will be in June. I had to have surgery and we are stuck here for the physical therapy. Who are the people you are speaking of in Helena? Is one of them John H.? We used to go over to Hauser Lake there in Helena all the time with our outboard. We used to know alot of people from that area. We would like to find out who the other flats are since there was only a few that we know of last time we were there. If you are ever out this way let us know. Here in Great Falls we have direct access to the Missouri River (Right in the middle of town).
Jetboatguru,
I have to agree with you it is nice that we have a place to go and ask questions and get all the useful info that we have been getting. Along with all the do's and don'ts. You guys have helped alot. Thank you again.
mrsbaracuda

[WILDERTHANU540]

DON'T FORGET ABOUT THE 506 BOAT, ONE PEDAL AS WELL !!!! JETBOATGURU I'M ON YOUR SIDE, WOT ALL THE WAY, THESE THINGS WERE MADE FOR SPEED. IF YOU DONT LIKE IT GET A JET BOAT!!!!!

[baracuda]

just sold the jet boat.I guess, I'm not Baracuda no more.hum,I wonder if the name goes with the boat.

[Jetboatguru]

LeeSS13 and 126 driver, I have much respect for what you guys do. I run to the edge of the water to watch the SS boats run. You guys are bad ass and have to drive those things all day long while we make a measly 1/4 mile pass. Big ups to you guys. I would love to get into the SS scene.
Tony

[WILDERTHANU540]

THOSE CIRCLE BOATS KICK ASS! ! ! !

[Kurtis500]

What ever happened to the K's?? Talk about needing a pair to drive a boat. I go to the Thanksgiving Regatta mostly to just get a glimpse of the K-boats, though they seldom run.
msbarracuda, sounds like you bought a nice ride. One more thing to remember a long with the driving technicalities. Watch the water well ahead of you. Most here do it as second nature and dont think to tell new people that, since driving a flat for most began in slower speeds than your at(probably). At 100 the big waves you didnt see at first are going to be almost under you by the time you see them. Even if you can see it and let off in a hurry, hitting a big wave moving sideways or a roller at 80 or so is a good chance for a wreck. Especially in a flat.

[hulshot]

guru, yes I did crash at camp far. I also had 60's in the box. At the track you cant roll your toes on the top of the pedal. All I used the up pedal for is to keep the air from sucking the plate down. My boat weighed 325 with no wing. The crash at camp far was a spectator just outside of veiw was moving his boat and I caught his wake and barrel rolled. The motor at about 2/3 track would spin 7800 rpms with the gears. boat 505 is either Shawn or Kelly Rhead, and Shawn builds Kelly's motors. The boat was a hand full with the power to weight ratio. If you think about it the time is really not that bad, idle at about 15-20 to the half track marker and nail it with the plate burried and still run low 9's at 132. That is a bold statemnt to make about a crash is 100% driver error, but what do I know, I crashed and I guess it was my fault for hitting a roller, I also guess Mike Barns in #316 Physicole Attraction thought it was his fault for chining and slipping acros the deck. Ther is all sorts of crashes some are drive error and some arent.
enough about crashes we dont want to scare anyone out of driving one of the badest thrill rides.
Just for thought, My boat had a small blown gas motor when I first started racing, it was a woping 468 BBC that maybe made 650 Hp. Now for the thought part, I recorded 8.52 @ 109.9mph with 40's in the box, think about the acceleration to acomplish this, now think about over 2 times the power and 60's in the box that would turn 7800 just past half track, it would probably have turned very good #'s Most likely low 7.0's but I'll never know. The 2 complete passes were skewed by the birds at the end of the track in Bakersfield. I also dont ever recall being challenged by anyone at a Lake before, even by a hydro. It was fun while it lasted.
All I can say is keep the shinny side up and wear the gear, It saved my life.

[boat030]

you had a flat that weighed 325??? if so how much did you pay for this??? maybe i just misunderstood your post???

[Costello]

Hulshot, Yes 505 is Shawn's PGF now a CF. The Guru is the hired shoe for the boat. 030 Michael, I don't know exactly what Hulshot's boat weighed, but when we lifted what was left of it off the beach and onto the trailer after it was located the next day, I did notice that the glass was paper thin where it had torn away.

[126driver]

Originally posted by LeE ss13:
I don't know Scott ...at Long Beach, once I start the turn I stand on the Up Pedel all the way around the turn and then as the boat straightens out and starts to go skyward, I Down Pedel it back down. That way there is less drag in the water in the turn. JMO
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LeE ss13
Now you did it Larry, showed me the short way around the track http://free.***boat.net/ubb/wink.gif
Scott

[126driver]

JBG & 540,
Thanks guys. Ups to you too for launching those flatties off of the line like that http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif
Scott

[coolchange]

Hey Havasu my buddies got a TR Cole for sale. Used to run UGF "Spring Fever" Now has mild tunnel ram BBC. The Baca paint and Ellis re-do has never been wet. I think he wants 10K.

[Jetboatguru]

Cool Change shoot me off an email and give me your buddies number who is selling the flat.
PGF526@AOL.com

[HavasuDreamin']

Originally posted by coolchange:
Hey Havasu my buddies got a TR Cole for sale. Used to run UGF "Spring Fever" Now has mild tunnel ram BBC. The Baca paint and Ellis re-do has never been wet. I think he wants 10K.
I wish I was in the market for one right now. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/frown.gif That sounds perfect, but unfortunately I have a while to go before I get one. Thanks anyway

[PGF545]

We have the White boat for sale. It is a splash off a TR2 and we were running PGF here in Texas. We won the NDBA and the SDBA PGF Championship last year and also won the IHBA Marble Falls race. Boat is for sale with or with out motor.
Bernie

[PGF545]

http://www.dragboats.com/gallery/images/01_08_MF_3664_505.jpg
Ok is this works then here is a picture.
[This message has been edited by PGF545 (edited June 07, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by PGF545 (edited June 07, 2002).]

[Jetboatguru]

Saweeeeeeetttttttttttttttt Numbers Bernie.
Yeah daddy!!!!!!!!!

[PGF545]

Those numbers were special designed by some guy in Cali, he said something like don't worry about it I will take care of the art work...you should see the custom artwork "Canyon by Mettler" http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gifI think that the guy is a graphic artist, he was baddddassss with a sharpie!!!!!!!!! Thanks Tony for the great weekend, I will never forget that one as long as I live.
Bernie

[Jetboatguru]

Bernie, you drove your ass off that weekend. It was all about you!!!!!!!
I am going to graffiti school.

[LeE ss13]

Originally posted by 126driver:
Now you did it Larry, showed me the short way around the track http://free.***boat.net/ubb/wink.gif
Scott
"Ha Ha,we are all very amused" (Disney's 'Atlantis')... you have always known the shortest way around the track from what I remember!
-------
LeE ss13

[hulshot]

030 the boat was a 1991 Syndicate 7/8 runner. Just to clarify, The bare hull weighed 325. You could shine a flashlight through almost anwhere in the hull. It was actuall an X racer that got popped for drugs and everything he had went to auction. Thats how I got it. Most people that new it when I ran it including Kelly in 505a and many others called it a patato chip. I do wish I still had it so that I could have fun with everyone,but the wife said no more so now I have a big family cruiser, I still have over 1000hp under the hatch though, I will never be able to get away from the sound of power and speed I just do it now in a big boat. I can sit all day and watch the v-drives because that is still my favorite. Have fun guys.