Crate motors?

[MOBrien]

A few Q's on complete crate motors. zz502, 540, zz572.....
Where's the best place to get 'em and at what costs?
What needs to be done to prep them for marine use & is that easy or difficult?
Direct bolt-in where a 7.4MPI sits now?
thanks & hope others will benefit from this thread too. Please, no opinions here. Just educated responses from those who have direct knowledge/experiences on this topic. :rollside:
-MOB

[core attitude]

If you do a search there are quite a few threads along these topic lines. That might get you going until others respond.........and that not an opnion, it's a suggestion.

[HM]

www.crateenginedepot.com
720 HP(11:1) and 620HP(9.6:1) versions of the ZZ572
and they have a ton of other GM crate motors and the prices are decent. Where are you going to find a brand new complete 720 HP motor for $13,000 and change?
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/images/12498827_large.jpg

[ultra27jay]

A few Q's on complete crate motors. zz502, 540, zz572.....
Where's the best place to get 'em and at what costs?
What needs to be done to prep them for marine use & is that easy or difficult?
Direct bolt-in where a 7.4MPI sits now?
thanks & hope others will benefit from this thread too. Please, no opinions here. Just educated responses from those who have direct knowledge/experiences on this topic. :rollside:
-MOB
i was just over at my buddys engine builders house and gave him a deposit on a 540. im pulling out my 496ho at the end of the season. i cant wait. but from what my buddy was telling me its about 4500.00 to change out the 454 block that i just finshed and replace it with the new 540. and the list goes form on............... :)

[HM]

World Crate 632 c.i. 800 hp motor (http://www.modernenginetech.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=407)
http://www.modernenginetech.com/images/ENGMERLI.jpg

[Cas]

Where are you going to find a brand new complete 720 HP motor for $13,000 and change?
Bad Ass Racing here in Sonoma.
Bad Ass Racing (http://www.badasscars.com/)
from their webpage
650 to 900+HP 540 big block: This engine can be set-up to run on pump gas or race gas. Brand new / fully machined HD Gen. VI - four bolt main block fitted with ARP main bolts. 4340 forged steel crank and 4340 forged steel H-beam "long" rods, super lite forged JE/SRP pistons with full floating wrist pins and plasma moly / iron ductile rings, Federal Mogul HD race main & rod bearings, HD cam bearings, brass freeze plugs, SFI harmonic balancer and SFI TH-400 flex plate, new HD balancer bolt and flex plate bolts, ARP head studs, Victor series high flow rectangle port heads, Victor series intake manifold / all port matched together, custom solid roller cam and lightweight roller lifters, roller timing chain, Fel Pro race gaskets, Stainless steel roller rockers and stud girdles, chrome moly push rods, Milodon oil pan and new timing cover, stainless steel bolts for all external parts, rotating assembly fully balanced to within 1/4 gram, Edelbrock high flow aluminum water pump, polished cast aluminum valve covers with breathers, Holley "HP series" carb, MSD billet distributor, Moroso HD hold down, MSD plug wires, new spark plugs, oil and oil filter, new chrome 1 wire HD alternator and aluminum alternator brackets, true gear reduction mini starter, billet aluminum water pump and crank pulleys with new fan belt, Dyno run and tuned with dyno sheets and build sheets, ready to drop-in and go when you get it.
http://www.badasscars.com/gallery/bbc1.jpg
550 - 800+ HP Big Block:Fully machined and prepped 4 bolt main 454 block fitted with ARP main bolts and new cam bearings. New cast steel after market crank, Forged TRW blower pistons hung on 5140 forged steel rods with large ARP rod bolts and plasma moly rings, HD main and rod bearings, Aluminum Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, chrome moly push rods, aluminum roller rockers, ARP head bolts, Double roller timing assembly, special blower grind cam and HD lifters. Weiand 8-71 blower and a pair of Holley carbs. 5 to 10 psi of boost. Chrome timing cover & oil pan, Fel Pro gaskets. New nodular iron harmonic balancer, a new flex plate, all Stainless Steel bolts and a fully balanced rotating assembly . $11,699 outright
http://www.badasscars.com/gallery/blown468.jpg

[HM]

Bad Ass Racing here in Sonoma.
Bad Ass Racing (http://www.badasscars.com/)
from their webpage
http://www.badasscars.com/gallery/bbc1.jpg
http://www.badasscars.com/gallery/blown468.jpg
Bookmarked!!!
That is a smoking deal on the blower motor. What do they charge to marinize these bad boys? (cam, oil pan, diapers)
Thanks!!! :cool: :cool: :cool:

[Cas]

Bookmarked!!!
That is a smoking deal on the blower motor. What do they charge to marinize these bad boys? (cam, oil pan, diapers)
Thanks!!! :cool: :cool: :cool:
no way for me to give price quotes for them but I would assume a give and take would apply. The cost of the automotive stuff would be subtracted and the marine stuff would be added. Give them a call and see what he says.
I know he's building a BBC roller motor ($6K) right now for someone here on the boards and a 545 BBF is on the drawing board for another (price unknown).

[AZJD]

$12G's for 572 crate motor.....WOW! That means what, like a $15k total install after headers and ect........ :cry:

[Cas]

$12G's for 572 crate motor.....WOW! That means what, like a $15k total install after headers and ect........ :cry:
not to mention the bearing clearances are set up for an automotive application and should be loosened up for marine. Add that plus a proper cam and you might as well build exactly what you want.

[Oldsquirt]

A few Q's on complete crate motors. zz502, 540, zz572.....
Where's the best place to get 'em and at what costs?....
You're up here in the general San Francisco Bay Area, right? Since it looks like you want a GM factory crate motor, try Fitzpatrick Chevy in Concord, Good Chevy in Alameda or Crown Chevy in Dublin. You will likely find their advertised prices to be within a $100 of each other and competitive with most GMPP dealers everywhere.

[NOTALENT]

If your looking for a ZZ502 I can see what kind of price I can get @ my company. ATK Engines. You would just have to tear it down and marinize it. PM me if your intrested.

[KLEPTOW]

A few Q's on complete crate motors. zz502, 540, zz572.....
Where's the best place to get 'em and at what costs?
What needs to be done to prep them for marine use & is that easy or difficult?
Direct bolt-in where a 7.4MPI sits now?
thanks & hope others will benefit from this thread too. Please, no opinions here. Just educated responses from those who have direct knowledge/experiences on this topic. :rollside:
-MOB
I have done a lot of home work on motors for marine use, that said what i have come up with is the best bag for your money is a GM crate 502. My buddy has one in his 28ft Advantage and his boat is right there with my Mercury HP 500 in a 24ft Cat, if you want bals out HP the best bag is the Chevy 572 motor it is pricey but who else can you depend on to honor there warrenty. I have bought one of these crate motors after it sucked a valve from a unnamed dealer that took it back under warrenty and replaced it no questions asked.

[jbone]

I'm using the ZZ502 crate in a jet. I did no marinization mods other than changing the pan. It runs great.
It only goes in fresh water though.

[VanDeano]

I just bought a marine 502 crate 415/hp my total cost shipped to my front door $5,450 w/ a 1 year warranty. This is a Brand New Engine, not a rebuild. When you buy out of state you save big $$$ because no tax. If you can get the YACHT Trader and look in the advertisement section I seen them price a little lower even.

[Sand Dawg]

All of these sites are for car use.
Is there any of these that have marine motors?

[KLEPTOW]

All of these sites are for car use.
Is there any of these that have marine motors?
You might want to do some home work on the ture differences in marine use verses auto, you will be supprised in how much your paying for a oil pressure spring.

[25dic]

Vandeano, where did you get your motor from? What were you running before and what kind of difference did you see with the upgrade?

[HM]

All of these sites are for car use.
Is there any of these that have marine motors?
Looks like Bad Ass will build for marine application. There was an east coast outfit that did marine "crate" motors. They had a crate 632 that was about 800 ponies for around $15K. I am still looking for that link, I think I have it saved on my home computer.

[Cas]

You might want to do some home work on the ture differences in marine use verses auto, you will be supprised in how much your paying for a oil pressure spring.
Automotive engines run in the idle to 2500 rpm range with a burst now and again to 4000 to 4500. Marine engines cruise in the 3500 rpm range with lots of run time in the 5K range. The bearing clearances need to be larger, the cam is different, oil pump, oil pan, windage trays....that's just a few things that should be done.
For me, I'd much rather have a marine engine that's custom built for what I'm going to use it for especially since it's the same price or possibly less.

[Howie Feltersnatch]

No personal experience but I have seen several positive posts on other sites regarding motors from these guys:
http://www.1800runsnew.com/

[Sand Dawg]

after looking on here and reading a lot,
car motors are not the same as marine
when it comes to tolerances go.
I'm just looking for a couple of sites to find a replacement motor
for my boat.

[VanDeano]

Vandeano, where did you get your motor from? What were you running before and what kind of difference did you see with the upgrade?
The following is there ad. Looks like they added $500.00 to the price. The guy there is pretty cool and his name is Kevin. Maybe he'll give you the same price as he did for me. Shipping was pretty cheap. Less then $300.00 The name of the business is "Performance Product Technologies"
I can tell you it was a big difference from my old 502, but that isn't saying much since it was a dog from the get go. I put this in my 1988 27' Carrera w/ a 24' bravo 1 and it puts me at 65 +/- at 5000 rpm. If you can get a hold of the YACHT TRADER i seen them in there for less then what I paid. I think the co. was called "1800newengine". hope it helps.
http://www.perfprotech.com/Store2/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=840
New GM MARINE Longblock - 8.2L/502cid, 415hp
Your Price: $5,750.00
Model Number: 823801P
There are various changes that were made on the 7.4L/8.2L engine throughout the years. Listed below is a link that will assist you in choosing the correct longblock for you application.Technical Tips. This NEW G.M. service longblock is intended for 1990 - 2002 applications. This longblock comes with complete with cast aluminum valve covers, an 8 quart oil pan, composite timing cover, and harmonic balancer. However it does not include the intake manifold, water pump, or flywheel.
Note: There is no provision for mechanical fuel pump, electric fuel pump must be used
Product Specifications:
Type: 90° 8.2L V8
Displacement:502 cid(8227.78cc)
Compression Ratio: 8.75:1
Valve Configuration: Pushrod Actuated
Overhead Canted Valves
Valve Lifters: Hydraulic Roller
Bore x Stroke: 4.47x 4.00in (113.54x101.60mm)
Main Bearing Caps:4-Bolt Cast Iron
Balance Method: External
Materials:
Block: Cast Iron
Cylinder Head: Rectangular Port - Cast
Iron (with exhaust valve seat inserts)
Intake Manifold: Customer Supplied
Firing Order: 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2
Oil Pan Capacity: 8qt
Fuel Types: Gasoline (unleaded)
Engine Rotation: Clockwise (from the front)
Paint Protection: Component Painted
Shipping Weight: 635lb (288 kg)
Correction to ISO 3046/SAE J1228. Actual power levels may vary depending on OEM calibration and application.
All specifications, availability, and pricing listed are based on the latest product information available at the time of publication.The right is reserved to make changes at any time without notice.
If you are replacing a non-roller type engine you will need to replace your distributor gear to work with the roller valvetrain on these Gen VI engines.

[Boa1277]

If you want a nice boat motor go to this website, this guy will build you a very nice motor that will run very strong. He is not the cheapest but he is not the most expensive, the problem is he is very back logged most of the time, he built my 460 for me and it had 425hp for around 5,500 that included the balancing and breakin on the dyno. Oh yeah he also upgraded the manifold and put a MSD distributor on it. www.larrysengine.com/
He also builds the motors in Gary Smiths Predator boat.

[Cas]

The following is there ad. Looks like they added $500.00 to the price. The guy there is pretty cool and his name is Kevin. Maybe he'll give you the same price as he did for me. Shipping was pretty cheap. Less then $300.00 The name of the business is "Performance Product Technologies"
I can tell you it was a big difference from my old 502, but that isn't saying much since it was a dog from the get go. I put this in my 1988 27' Carrera w/ a 24' bravo 1 and it puts me at 65 +/- at 5000 rpm. If you can get a hold of the YACHT TRADER i seen them in there for less then what I paid. I think the co. was called "1800newengine". hope it helps.
http://www.perfprotech.com/Store2/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=840
New GM MARINE Longblock - 8.2L/502cid, 415hp
Your Price: $5,750.00
Model Number: 823801P
that's a perfect example, a mass produced 415 hp long block, not even complete for $5750. Bad Ass has this for less money-
450 - 530HP street 454: Fully machined and prepped 454 block,( cleaned, magnafluxed, shot peened, bored, honed, align honed, decked and all threads chased), fitted with ARP main bolts, new steel crank, high performance cam, rod and main bearings, re-sized HD rods fitted with ARP bolts, Forged TRW pistons with moly rings, custom cam & lifter set, double row timing assembly, Melling high volume oil pump with hardened shaft and pick-up, fully remanufactured large oval port heads fitted with new valves, springs, guides, seals, locks and hard seats, pressure tested and surfaced, new TRW push rods, aluminum roller rockers, ARP head bolts, Fel Pro gaskets, Edelbrock RPM intake manifold, chrome timing cover and a polished billet aluminum HEI distributor. Comes fully assembled with new stainless steel bolts. $5,699 outright. Add $300 for balancing.
sorry but I can't see the reasoning behind getting a crate motor when you can get more for your money elsewhere. I'm sure there are quite a few other reputable engine builders out there that can do the same.

[KLEPTOW]

Automotive engines run in the idle to 2500 rpm range with a burst now and again to 4000 to 4500. Marine engines cruise in the 3500 rpm range with lots of run time in the 5K range. The bearing clearances need to be larger, the cam is different, oil pump, oil pan, windage trays....that's just a few things that should be done.
For me, I'd much rather have a marine engine that's custom built for what I'm going to use it for especially since it's the same price or possibly less.
So I'm looking at my Mercury rebulid Manual and the clearances are on par with ANY hipo motor clearances. I dont have a rebuild spec sheet for the 572 waiting for it but maybe you could shed some light on the specs for the 572 seeing's how you keep saying there different?

[Oldsquirt]

that's a perfect example, a mass produced 415 hp long block, not even complete for $5750. Bad Ass has this for less money-
Comparing the NEW marine crate motor to your guy's REBUILT is not really a fair comparison. To make it fair, add the price of a new block, crank, rods and heads. Then you will be closer to comparing apples to apples.
sorry but I can't see the reasoning behind getting a crate motor when you can get more for your money elsewhere. I'm sure there are quite a few other reputable engine builders out there that can do the same.
The simplest answer to that is TIME. You can walk into a GMPP dealer and drive away with a motor that is, for all practical purposes, "ready-to-run". Since the 502 is available in 5 different stages of completion(short block up to complete with intake, ignition and carb), you buy what you need and swap in the rest from the old motor or buy new stuff. Plenty of options.With the custom builder, you have to deal with "lead time". How long will your engine actually take? How many engines are in line to be built before yours? Been there, done that. Probably would have come out ahead with a 502 crate, and a few hours spent setting it up they way I wanted.

[Cas]

Comparing the NEW marine crate motor to your guy's REBUILT is not really a fair comparison. To make it fair, add the price of a new block, crank, rods and heads. Then you will be closer to comparing apples to apples.
He just got through with an engine, new forged crank, rods, and pistons with aluminum heads and roller cam....$6300.
As far as the block goes, I've seen what the castings look like and I'd much rather have a core that's been detailed than a new one. I'll also know and feel confident in everything was machined properly.
The simplest answer to that is TIME. You can walk into a GMPP dealer and drive away with a motor that is, for all practical purposes, "ready-to-run". Since the 502 is available in 5 different stages of completion(short block up to complete with intake, ignition and carb), you buy what you need and swap in the rest from the old motor or buy new stuff. Plenty of options.With the custom builder, you have to deal with "lead time". How long will your engine actually take? How many engines are in line to be built before yours? Been there, done that. Probably would have come out ahead with a 502 crate, and a few hours spent setting it up they way I wanted.
Since I've started out talking about Bad Ass I'll finish with it. Bad Ass Racing will only rebuild your current engine upon request. Most of his engines are built/rebuilt utilizing a company that preps the blocks prior to Bad Ass getting them. There is no core charge so there's no additional costs there. If you know what you want, you can have it built while you're still using what you have.
We all have choices for just about everything we do. I choose to go the route of having something built/rebuilt with quality parts and to exact specs on what I'll be using it for not something that's built to go into many different applications.

[VanDeano]

that's a perfect example, a mass produced 415 hp long block, not even complete for $5750. Bad Ass has this for less money-
Originally Posted by BadAssRacing website
450 - 530HP street 454: Fully machined and prepped 454 block,( cleaned, magnafluxed, shot peened, bored, honed, align honed, decked and all threads chased), fitted with ARP main bolts, new steel crank, high performance cam, rod and main bearings, re-sized HD rods fitted with ARP bolts, Forged TRW pistons with moly rings, custom cam & lifter set, double row timing assembly, Melling high volume oil pump with hardened shaft and pick-up, fully remanufactured large oval port heads fitted with new valves, springs, guides, seals, locks and hard seats, pressure tested and surfaced, new TRW push rods, aluminum roller rockers, ARP head bolts, Fel Pro gaskets, Edelbrock RPM intake manifold, chrome timing cover and a polished billet aluminum HEI distributor. Comes fully assembled with new stainless steel bolts. $5,699 outright. Add $300 for balancing
sorry but I can't see the reasoning behind getting a crate motor when you can get more for your money elsewhere. I'm sure there are quite a few other reputable engine builders out there that can do the same.
IMOA, you are comparing apples to oranges. 454 compared to a 502. This is a factory engine, no rebuild stuff. How does that saying go " no placement for displacement"? Something like that. :p
Plus, IMOA the internals are just as good if not better. TRW pistons compared to JE pistons. I'll take the JE pistons. 502's marine crate engines are so beffy no modifcations are necessary to add a supercharger. 1 year warranty. I just like the idea of a factory built motor. Just my 2 cents.