Make it simple for me....what the hell is the israeli war about

[lewiville]

I just dont understand it. I know these guys have been fighting for ever, but why? I keep watching the news on this and nobody is saying why they are fighting , I dont understand it.
Can someone give me the readers digest version? Sorry for bringing this up, but curious why.

[Tom Brown]

There is nothing I would enjoy more than seeing you dead.

[KACHINA KEN]

Bunch of guys not getting enough sex and lack of boats + guns and ammo everywhere.

[wsuwrhr]

This will be a good thread.
I don't think either side could answer your question.
Either side would most likely blame on the other guys.

[Outnumbered]

Terrorist org Hezbollah has basically taken over Lebanon over the past several years. Recently, Hezbollah crossed the border and kidnapped Israeli soldiers. Israel said f uck you, we are sick of your shit and started blowing the shit out of Hezbollah hide-outs in Lebanon. Since a lot of the so-called "innocent" Lebanese are harboring Hezbollah terrorists, they are getting killed and are "innocent victims" of the evil Israeli attacks :rolleyes: .
Now, since its all Bush's fault that this started (insert your favorite conspiracy theory here) :rolleyes: all the liberal media is making Hezbollah seem like the victims and Israel, the terrorist (its called spin). So now, the world is more pissed at us for starting this (Bush sux and its all his fault) and supporting Israel. In a phrase, Bush sux, and we should have elected John F Kerry.

[Tom Brown]

What if there really is no war? What if it's all a conspiracy? :idea:

[DeeCandyBar]

it's simple really:
1. israel is a democracy that wants to stay a sovereign nation while
2. iran is calling for the annihilation of all jews, so
3. iran is pushing syria to provide support to hezbollah (a terrorist group in the country of lebanon) to attack israel
4. iran via syria is providing rockets and other weaponry to hezbollah so they can fire them into israel randomly killing israelis
5. hezbollah started this latest war by coming in across israel's border (through tunnels), killing 8 israeli soldiers and kidnapping 2 more soldiers
6. since no one else will stop hezbollah from firing rockets into israel or disarm them israel is fighting for their survival.
furthermore:
* lebanon is a country in name only. its "government" is toothless and the country is controlled by hezbollah. that's why lebanon cannot make hezbollah leave the country nor disarm them which would in effect put an end to this war.
* hezbollah never has launched a strike on us soil, but prior to al-qaida's sept. 11, 2001, attacks, it was responsible for more american deaths than any other terrorist group. hezbollah attacked the u.s. embassy in lebanon, killing 63 as well as a spate of kidnappings and murders of americans in lebanon. hezbollah's deadliest attack against americans was the 1983 bombing of the u.s. marine barracks in beirut, lebanon that killed 241 u.s. servicemen.

[lewiville]

got it

[C-2]

Terrorist org Hezbollah has basically taken over Lebanon over the past several years. Recently, Hezbollah crossed the border and kidnapped Israeli soldiers. Israel said f uck you, we are sick of your shit and started blowing the shit out of Hezbollah hide-outs in Lebanon. Since a lot of the so-called "innocent" Lebanese are harboring Hezbollah terrorists, they are getting killed and are "innocent victims" of the evil Israeli attacks :rolleyes: .
Now, since its all Bush's fault that this started (insert your favorite conspiracy theory here) :rolleyes: all the liberal media is making Hezbollah seem like the victims and Israel, the terrorist (its called spin). So now, the world is more pissed at us for starting this (Bush sux and its all his fault) and supporting Israel. In a phrase, Bush sux, and we should have elected John F Kerry.
Just a thought here.....maybe Mexico needs to come up and kidnap two of our soldiers?
C2<---, takes a bow for finally finding a solution to the illegal immigrant problem. :220v: :220v:

[DeeCandyBar]

Just a thought here.....maybe Mexico needs to come up and kidnap two of our soldiers?
C2<---, takes a bow for finally finding a solution to the illegal immigrant problem. :220v: :220v:
just wait til the next 9/11 when we find out the terrorists came up through our southern border. then our illegal aliens problem will be solved...permanently

[Riomouse911]

Religious fanatacisim... this, along with tribal/ethnic fanatacisim, is the cause of the vast majority of the worlds violent conflicts for the last two thousand years. Folks can't just let others be what they want, how they want, without starting a beef.

[ROZ]

It's really simple.. Israel has always been at war..nothing new :D

[DeeCandyBar]

It's really simple.. Israel has always been at war..nothing new :D
without getting too serious for you roz, what's your point? is israel fighting for its survival or do you think they're fighting for some other reason?

[Tom Brown]

It's really simple.. Israel has always been at war..nothing new :D
The Red Sea parted creating the very first channel and, with no ordinances against partying and having fun, things got out of hand from there.

[lewiville]

The Red Sea parted creating the first channel and, with no ordinances against partying and having fun, things got out of hand from there.
Tom I can always count on you. :)
By the way, were you around then?

[Tom Brown]

By the way, were you around then?
No but I have studied the uncut version of the story.

[PlyaPlya22]

They are actually fighting over the land and the division of the Jews from thousands of years ago. It's a long story but there is the just of it.

[Trailer Park Casanova]

Syria pulled it's troops and polititians back outta Lebanon some months ago after assasinating the Lebonese Prez, and now it's back to chaos.
If you've ever visited Israel, you'll notice the Israilies all want to be the boss in the workplace, never the workers. Kinda like here with the latinos, but over there they have to import Arabs to run the businesses.
So:
The Arabs bring the weapons and suicide bombs in with them, in addition to the rocket attacks from over the border.
The destruction you see on the nitely news usually (in addition to tactical fighting), is either where the rockets landed in Israel, or where the Israilies identified where the rockets were launched from and did a retalitory airstrike / artilliary strike on the launch spot.
Syria wants back the Golan heights. Look for that issue to hit the table soon among other things.
As long as the rocket attacks continue, the Isralies won't cease fire or seek settle this matter.
Who knows if ever that will happen.
Look to see longer range rockets make their appearance in the future.

[VanDeano]

I think Bush kidnap the soilders because he knew it would start a war, and it would keep the media off his ass. But then again, he too stupid to think something like that up. I also think he got Mel Gibson Phuck up on some shooters. Media has no air time for Bush with shiot like this going on in the world. :cool:

[Freak]

True or false you gotta love Mr. Galloway beating on this reporter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-brkmfrxrQY&eurl=
Anyone catch him beating on Congress? I think it was congress. THAT was good stuff also.

[Old Guy]

Religious fanatacisim... this, along with tribal/ethnic fanatacisim, is the cause of the vast majority of the worlds violent conflicts for the last two thousand years. Folks can't just let others be what they want, how they want, without starting a beef.
Add power and money, and you are 100% correct.
I bought my first computer from a guy who was born and raised in Lebanon. He was in his early 20's, had an American wife, and was trying to start his own computer business. He helped me whenever I had a computer problem. We would talk for hours about the Middle East, Israel, and how he could survive in his work environment at the bank.
I asked him why they fight. His answer was EXACTLY as outlined above.
He said the people over there (Lebanon) do not want a democratic form of government. They understand the Tribal concept and are most comfortable with it.
The problem comes with the Muslims. They are taught starting almost at birth to hate everyone who is not Muslim, especially Jews. If you are not Muslim, you are an infidel and should be killed.
He looked me straight in the eye and told me that according to what he was taught in school, I was an infidel and if he had the opportunity, he should kill me. His parents told him this was not always true and he should go to America where there was more opportunity. His Father was in the Produce business in Lebanon, sent him here, and paid for his education in computer science. He is a programmer. He has been promoted at the bank and last I knew, has a very good position.
During the time I was dealing with him, I was aware of him going by 4 different names. I told him that was bullshit and demanded to know his real name. He did tell me, and I believed him. I would trust him as far as I can throw my boat.
old
That's as short as I can make it.

[Schiada76]

Arabs fell off the evolutionary ladder about 3000 years ago and want to kill anyone that shows signs of being an intelligent human.
Israel is the only successful modern country in the middle East and thus an embarrassment to the primitives. They have to "KILL THE JEW!" just to save face. :rolleyes:

[Schiada76]

Religious fanatacisim... this, along with tribal/ethnic fanatacisim, is the cause of the vast majority of the worlds violent conflicts for the last two thousand years. Folks can't just let others be what they want, how they want, without starting a beef.
Not true in the least.
It's much more simple, power and money.
Name any "religious war" that comes close to the 1st and 2nd world wars. Or our civil war, revolutionary war, Spanish American war, war of 1812, Vietnam, etc etc.

[DeeCandyBar]

Not true in the least.
It's much more simple, power and money.
Name any "religious war" that comes close to the 1st and 2nd world wars. Or our civil war, revolutionary war, Spanish American war, war of 1812, Vietnam, etc etc.
that's brilliant - do you work for cnn? :rolleyes:

[Schiada76]

that's brilliant - do you work for cnn? :rolleyes:
Well name some "religious wars" wars then whiz bang. :rolleyes:

[DeeCandyBar]

Well name some "religious wars" wars then whiz bang. :rolleyes:
how many do you want genius? there are many religious wars. the religious wars began with overt hostilities in 1562 and lasted until the Edict of Nantes in 1598. it was warfare that devastated a generation, although conducted in rather desultory, inconclusive way.
The First War (1562-1563)
The Second War (1567-1568)
The Third War (1568-1570)
The St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre (1572)
The Fourth War (1572-1573)
The Fifth War (1576)
The Sixth War (1577)
The Seventh War (1580)
The War of the Three Henries (1584-1589)
The Wars of the League (1589-1598)
but this doesn't address the current war in the middle east. to call it a "religious war" is not accurate or truthful. the war is because, as old guy posted above, "The problem comes with the Muslims. They are taught starting almost at birth to hate everyone who is not Muslim, especially Jews. If you are not Muslim, you are an infidel and should be killed."

[boxscore]

how many do you want genius? there are many religious wars. the religious wars began with overt hostilities in 1562 and lasted until the Edict of Nantes in 1598. it was warfare that devastated a generation, although conducted in rather desultory, inconclusive way.
The First War (1562-1563)
The Second War (1567-1568)
The Third War (1568-1570)
The St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre (1572)
The Fourth War (1572-1573)
The Fifth War (1576)
The Sixth War (1577)
The Seventh War (1580)
The War of the Three Henries (1584-1589)
The Wars of the League (1589-1598)
but this doesn't address the current war in the middle east. to call it a "religious war" is not accurate or truthful. the war is because, as old guy posted above, "The problem comes with the Muslims. They are taught starting almost at birth to hate everyone who is not Muslim, especially Jews. If you are not Muslim, you are an infidel and should be killed."
Wow... let's go have a drink... I might learn something rather than hanging with my regular cronies.

[MBlaster]

The jihadis believe that their form of wahhabi islam should control the middle east first, then europe, then the world. And all those who do not bow to allah should be killed, enslaved, or subjugated. They want to finish the holocaust, destroy israel, and purge the world of jews.

[Schiada76]

how many do you want genius? there are many religious wars. the religious wars began with overt hostilities in 1562 and lasted until the Edict of Nantes in 1598. it was warfare that devastated a generation, although conducted in rather desultory, inconclusive way.
The First War (1562-1563)
The Second War (1567-1568)
The Third War (1568-1570)
The St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre (1572)
The Fourth War (1572-1573)
The Fifth War (1576)
The Sixth War (1577)
The Seventh War (1580)
The War of the Three Henries (1584-1589)
The Wars of the League (1589-1598)
but this doesn't address the current war in the middle east. to call it a "religious war" is not accurate or truthful. the war is because, as old guy posted above, "The problem comes with the Muslims. They are taught starting almost at birth to hate everyone who is not Muslim, especially Jews. If you are not Muslim, you are an infidel and should be killed."
My My My! Aren't you quite the genius? Nice google search.
Sadly though you being the simpleton that you are you missed the point.
The overwhelming number of wars are wars of conquest for power and money.
The Roman empire was not founded on religious imperialism for one. Now take a deep breath do another few searches and you'll find I'm right.
If you want to educate yourself a little bit on the current cause of conflict in the Middle east start with the Ottoman Empire and it's collapse after WWI.
It's not about religion.

[Outnumbered]

....It's not about religion.
They want to kill us becuase we are "infidels". Get a clue. They are focking psychos.

[GHT]

I just dont understand it. I know these guys have been fighting for ever, but why? I keep watching the news on this and nobody is saying why they are fighting , I dont understand it.
Can someone give me the readers digest version? Sorry for bringing this up, but curious why.
Read "The Old Testiment".... They have been at war since the begining and still continue to carry a grudge... NOBODY will stop what is happening over there. It has been going on for THOUSANDS of years and will continue.

[Freak]

It looks as though some have a presupposition that Hezbollah is a terroist organization and Israel has a right no matter where they are located to destroy the organization and anything associated with it. If that is true then:
1. If Hezbollah cells were in the Detriot, USA would you allow Israel to bomb the Motor city?
2. If Israel society and statehood is based on Zionism which is established as a racist ideolgy and ideologues participated in terroist activites towards arab nationals in the establishment of the Israeli state. Israel then forced the Un to revoke the racism resolution for the UN during the 1991 peace talks by George senior. Then is it justifiable for USA to support a racist regime?
When I think of these things it seems that Israel is the antagonist. Just because a government or movement that is setup as a democracy and supported by the USA does that mean that it can in no way be a criminal? Hezbollah was only formed in 1985 as a response to "Israli occupation of Lebenon." Sounds like a broken record, no?
This whole thing is nutz...I don't get it either.....

[Schiada76]

They want to kill us becuase we are "infidels". Get a clue. They are focking psychos.
Yes Muslims are pyscho primitives. That's not the root of the current war that Israel is fighting though. They've been fighting this same war since the creation of Isreal which predates the current wave of fanaticism.
You however have brought up a true "relgious war" that we are fighting globally. We are at war with islam no matter what the politically correct a holes want to say.
My point was only to the guy who reiterated the liberal bullshit of most wars being based in religion which is simply not true.

[rivercrazy]

Religious fanatacisim... this, along with tribal/ethnic fanatacisim, is the cause of the vast majority of the worlds violent conflicts for the last two thousand years. Folks can't just let others be what they want, how they want, without starting a beef.
That pretty much sums it up. Then couple that with the intense heat that has baked all their brains over there........Bottom line its religous and race based.

[Dave C]

Don't you think this is kind of ironic that this conflict has us arguing about it? :rollside: Captivating...... LOL
Anyhow, my 2 pennies is that currently Israel has possession of the "holy land," particularly Jerusalem. All 3 religions claim ownership of the holy land because it holds particular significance for each. (particularly that end of the world story where Jerusalem is entrance to heaven, blah, blah, blah.....)
The Muslims view the Jews possession of the holy land as a personal affront. Therefore they will fight to get it back just as they have done numerous times in the past.
Its a vicious cycle, the jews hold it, then muslims toss them on their ass, then christians tossed the muslims on their ass, then the muslims tossed the christians on their ass.... so on and so forth.........
unfortunately this will only stop once one party is dead. :cry: :cry:
the history channel just did a great piece about the Knights Templar and the Kingdom of Jerusalem. To truly understand this scenario once must read about the Jewish Kingdom following the Roman occupation, the Knights Templar and the crusades and the Syrian muslim emperors.
But it wouldn't be the readers digest version. ;)

[DeeCandyBar]

The jihadis believe that their form of wahhabi islam should control the middle east first, then europe, then the world. And all those who do not bow to allah should be killed, enslaved, or subjugated. They want to finish the holocaust, destroy israel, and purge the world of jews.
here's a clue - it's not just about the jews. they want to kill americans just as badly. if we were over in the middle east it'd be us they'd be firing rockets at.

[DeeCandyBar]

It's not about religion.
i never said it was about religion!

[Dave C]

take it easy... I don't want to see one of you guys car bombing the other.... LOL....
History teachs us that wars typically start over control of land and/or resources. Religion or ideology is sometimes used as the "motivating factor" to get people to kill the other guy for that land and/or resources... :rollside: :rollside:
just my 2 pennies

[lewiville]

Read "The Old Testiment".... They have been at war since the begining and still continue to carry a grudge... NOBODY will stop what is happening over there. It has been going on for THOUSANDS of years and will continue.
GHT I have read the old testiment, several times. I never meant to start a thread of political rhederic, but of something that can explain the simplistic issue.
And do this peacefully, I know everyone has there own "opinon". Opinions dont help me out.

[centerhill condor]

where do they get all these 50 year old rockets? don't they have a "best if used by date" stamped somewhere? I think this episode of the fight is to keep Persia and their Uranium enrichment goals out of the news and so far it has worked...
I think we should give the Persians enriched uranium in 100 lb spheres surrounded by high explosives...delivered by B-2 under the cover of darkness.
This is a combination war... a religous war and a war on religion. This is also a continuation of the "Crusades" and an attempt at the resurgence of the Ottoman and Persian Empire. Israel is merely the tip of our spear.
We've (US) been in a world war with the Persians for over 30 years. To date no U.S. president has properly dealt with the situation so it will fester and become quite the problem for the next presidential administration.
President Nixon in his letter to President Carter warned/predicted of strenuous difficulties from Persia and Muslims/Islams. Old Jimmy, he didn't understand and the Iranian students, all grown and now running the country, seized the embassy in Tehran.
Currently, the U.S. doesn't have the intestinal fortitude for such a conflict and we'll be slowly surrounded by defeated allies; france, spain, etc...
We will then have a choice of perpetual servitude complete with 6 times daily prayer shouts to Alla in every town in the country or have to kill the sombitches at a rate with which our generation is as yet unfamiliar.
Israel/Lebanon isn't a war yet... call me the first time you hear the word "napalm" and then it might be a war... now, they're merely adjusting for windage and elevation...

[PlyaPlya22]

very intresting.

[Jesster]

Don't you think this is kind of ironic that this conflict has us arguing about it? :rollside: Captivating...... LOL
Anyhow, my 2 pennies is that currently Israel has possession of the "holy land," particularly Jerusalem. All 3 religions claim ownership of the holy land because it holds particular significance for each. (particularly that end of the world story where Jerusalem is entrance to heaven, blah, blah, blah.....)
The Muslims view the Jews possession of the holy land as a personal affront. Therefore they will fight to get it back just as they have done numerous times in the past.
Its a vicious cycle, the jews hold it, then muslims toss them on their ass, then christians tossed the muslims on their ass, then the muslims tossed the christians on their ass.... so on and so forth.........
unfortunately this will only stop once one party is dead. :cry: :cry:
the history channel just did a great piece about the Knights Templar and the Kingdom of Jerusalem. To truly understand this scenario once must read about the Jewish Kingdom following the Roman occupation, the Knights Templar and the crusades and the Syrian muslim emperors.
But it wouldn't be the readers digest version. ;)
Jerusalem really holds little significance for the Muslim, Mecca is their holy land. They didn't start to want Jerusalem until it was given to the Jews after WWII by the UN. Mecca is mentioned many many times in the Quran but Jerusalem is never mentioned. The only reason they want it is because the Jews have it and ever since Isaac and Ishmael were born there has been conflict between Jews and Muslims. Muslims think that Ishmael was Abraham’s son given to sacrifice and the Jews think it was Isaac. Bible vs. Quran, since the Quran was written by a so called prophet on hallucinogen by some sources or at least a little demented who is the root cause of terrorism as it exists today Ill go with the bible on this one. And why anybody thinks the land belongs to the Palestinians is beyond me. The Gaza strip was owned by Egypt and the West Bank was owned by Jordan before it was given to the Jews. There were no Palestinians before. Palestinians is a relatively new term for displaced Lebanese. They had no country before but think they somehow need one now. It is all Arab supported rhetoric to justify the destruction, or Genocide, because that’s what they would like, of another nation.

[C-2]

My brother in-law is Lebanese. First generation – their entire family fled Lebanon in the early 1980’s after their father was assassinated for teaching outside the mandated curriculum. They started in Michigan and moved to So Cal since the climate is similar to Lebanon. They are all highly educated, wealthy and consider themselves Americans – not Lebanese.
His thoughts and EXPERIENCES are simple; half the country tries to live and enjoy life, much like we do here in the US. The other half is hell-bent on stopping that from happening. For the other half – fighting is all they are taught and frankly, it’s all they’re interested in.
Nothing more, nothing less according to him.
He laughs when people try to discuss the “issues” with him, again pointing out there are no issues, other than half the country is f*#*in nuts. :idea:

[Schiada76]

i never said it was about religion!
No but you posted a stupid response to my post to the other guy that claimed war is mostly due to relgion.
So do you just like to stir shit for no apparent reason? :rolleyes:

[Schiada76]

Now back to the original question.
ISRAEL AND JERUSALEM FACTS
1. ISRAEL BECAME A STATE IN 1312 B.C., TWO MILLENNIA BEFORE ISLAM;
2. ARAB REFUGEES FROM ISRAEL BEGAN CALLING THEMSELVES "PALESTINIANS" IN 1967, TWO DECADES AFTER (MODERN) ISRAELI STATEHOOD;
3. AFTER CONQUERING THE LAND IN 1272 B.C., JEWS RULED IT FOR A THOUSAND YEARS AND MAINTAINED A CONTINUOUS PRESENCE THERE FOR 3,300 YEARS;
4. THE ONLY ARAB RULE FOLLOWING CONQUEST IN 633 A.D. LASTED JUST 22 YEARS;
5. FOR OVER 3,300 YEARS, JERUSALEM WAS THE JEWISH CAPITAL. IT WAS NEVER THE CAPITAL OF ANY ARAB OR MUSLIM ENTITY. EVEN UNDER JORDANIAN RULE, (EAST) JERUSALEM WAS NOT MADE THE CAPITAL, AND NO ARAB LEADER CAME TO VISIT IT;
6. JERUSALEM IS MENTIONED OVER 700 TIMES IN THE BIBLE, BUT NOT ONCE IS IT MENTIONED IN THE QUR'AN;
7. KING DAVID FOUNDED JERUSALEM; MOHAMMED NEVER SET FOOT IN IT;
8. JEWS PRAY FACING JERUSALEM; MUSLIMS FACE MECCA. IF THEY ARE BETWEEN THE TWO CITIES, MUSLIMS PRAY FACING MECCA, WITH THEIR BACKS TO JERUSALEM;
9. IN 1948, ARAB LEADERS URGED THEIR PEOPLE TO LEAVE, PROMISING TO CLEANSE THE LAND OF JEWISH PRESENCE. 68% OF THEM FLED WITHOUT EVER SETTING EYES ON AN ISRAELI SOLDIER;
10. VIRTUALLY THE ENTIRE JEWISH POPULATION OF MUSLIM COUNTRIES HAD TO FLEE AS THE RESULT OF VIOLENCE AND POGROMS;
11. SOME 630,000 ARABS LEFT ISRAEL IN 1948, WHILE CLOSE TO A MILLION JEWS WERE FORCED TO LEAVE THE MUSLIM COUNTRIES;
12. IN SPITE OF THE VAST TERRITORIES AT THEIR DISPOSAL, ARAB REFUGESS WERE DELIBERATELY PREVENTED FROM ASSIMILATING INTO THEIR HOST COUNTRIES. OF 100 MILLION REFUGEES FOLLOWING WORLD WAR 2, THEY ARE THE ONLY GROUP TO HAVE NEVER INTEGRATED WITH THEIR CORELIGIONISTS. MOST OF THE JEWISH REFUGEES FROM EUROPE AND ARAB LANDS WERE SETTLED IN ISRAEL, A COUNTRY NO LARGER THAN NEW JERSEY;
13. THERE ARE 22 MUSLIM COUNTRIES, NOT COUNTING PALESTINE. THERE IS ONLY ONE JEWISH STATE. ARABS STARTED ALL FIVE WARS AGAINST ISRAEL, AND LOST EVERY ONE OF THEM;
14. FATAH AND HAMAS CONSTITUTIONS STILL CALL FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL. ISRAEL CEDED MOST OF THE WEST BANK AND ALL OF GAZA TO THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY, AND EVEN PROVIDED IT WITH ARMS;
15. DURING THE JORDANIAN OCCUPATION, JEWISH HOLY SITES WERE VANDALIZED AND WERE OFF LIMITS TO JEWS. UNDER ISRAELI RULE, ALL MUSLIM AND CHRISTIAN HOLY SITES ARE ACCESSIBLE TO ALL FAITHS;
16. OUT OF 175 UNITED NATIONS SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTIONS UP TO 1990, 97 WERE AGAINST ISRAEL; OUT OF 690 GENERAL ASSEMBLY RESOLUTIONS, 429 WERE AGAINST ISRAEL;
17. THE U.N. WAS SILENT WHEN THE JORDANIANS DESTROYED 58 SYNAGOGUES IN THE OLD CITY OF JERUSALEM. IT REMAINED SILENT WHILE JORDAN SYSTEMATICALLY DESECRATED THE ANCIENT JEWISH CEMETERY ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES, AND IT REMAINED SILENT WHEN JORDAN ENFORCED APARTHEID LAWS PREVENTING JEWS FROM ACCESSING THE TEMPLE MOUNT AND WESTERN WALL.
So, simply, the war is about primitive arab scum trying to kill Jews who just want to live in peace. :D

[Diablo54]

Some information on this guys blog, has alot of links
http://erikrader.blogspot.com

[jxr02]

Rent the movie "Kindom of Heaven" and pay attention to the part where Olando Bloom says "What is Jerusalum worth? The Muslam temples are built on the ruins of the jewish temples which are built on the ruins of the roman temples.....for whom is it more holy?" and so it goes.
Add to that the relative newness of Isreal as a sovereign country (after the second world war) and the Ass Kicking the gave Syria and Egypt back in the '60s you get a bunch of very pissed off people.

[Riomouse911]

Finally back on the computer, and noticed the response and attacks. Gee, if 76 had read the entire posting, instead of getting crunched up on the word RELIGION in the paragraph, then that word along with words like "tribal/ethnic conflict are the cause of the vast majority of the worlds problems".
This is an ethnic war. (Arab vs. Zionist). A tribal war (Palestinian Arab, Shiite Arab vs. Israeli) AND a religious war (Muslim vs. Jew). Quit being so sensitive when it's pointed out that religious lines are the ones often drawn when conflict arises, ITS A FACT! Conflict is a hydra.. It can be as simplistic as alcohol induced "tribalism" (Arsenal vs. Man U soccer hooligans in Manchester, England. Or Charger vs. Raider fans in San Diego) Or complex same general race yet multi-generational animosity "tribalism" (Hutu vs Tutsi in Rwanda, Kurd vs Sunni in Iraq). We can visit Bosnia for contemporary ethnic strife drawn on religious lines, and of course the good ol' Northern Ireland (religously drawn) devotion to crown (Prods) or Country (Catholic) hoopla that we watched on TV for all those years and which continues today (Orange parades?...Sinn Fein?.... anyone?...anyone?... Bueller?... Bueller?). Holy war? Crusades! Persecution on "religious difference" thats how some of our U.S. states (Ever been to Utah?) were formed; BY PEOPLE FLEEING ZEALOTRY.
It's very clear that people of all faiths (and those with none at all) have for eons often chosen to rally with those of like thought, and divest themselves from those of opposing thought. Churches split from the "main bodies" over differences in belief or teaching (Gay bishops in the Anglican Church is a recent one) . This can, and often does breed resentment and intolerance towards ones of differing opinion even within "the walls" of one religion. Now lets toss in ethnic differences... maybe a tribal sleight or two and a stolen cow..and here we are. It's apparent by 76's assault on anyone with a clear thought of their own, who differs from 76's opinion, that 76 immediately jumps to defend what 76 believes without first taking into the idea that maybe someone else is different than you. It's much more than the split of the Ottomans, and the UN creation of "Israel" from "Palestine" after Britain lost control of the area. It's been recorded since the brothers started fighing in the old testament, and continues today split along almost the same lines.
Tolerance... open mindedness.... acceptance...try it. If a few billion more folks would, maybe we would end hunger, global warming, AIDS and any other malady you can pop in here. But maybe thats just the idea of a simpleton...

[Riomouse911]

Oh, just read the latest google post and it's confirmed by 76. It is a religious conflict. Along with trobal, ethnic, on and on and on.

[OGShocker]

http://theinsideline.org/forums/image.php?u=448&dateline=1144163454

[moneypit]

The Jews are sick of getting f'd with. Since world war two they found a place to live. (Not sure it was a good place to settle with the hatreed they have around there.) The dealt with Hitler now they deal with the middle east. They are not a country to back down to a bully that picks a fight.
As much as we dont need more war in this world, Im glad to see them kick the shit out of those bastards.
Its amazing to me that the Chistian side of Lebanon is sitting back and watching thier country get destroyed and they arent in the fight.

[Riomouse911]

Years ago, Golda Maier, one of Israel's most influential leaders, had a funny comment about the location of Israel once.. can't remember it exactly, but I believe it was something along the line of "God led us through the desert for a thousand years to the one place in the Middle East where there is no oil." It also should say, "and where we have no neighbors we can call true friends."
And 76, I do agree with you that the arabs started the latest mess, and probably the vast majority of the others in the region, too. I have no sympathy for their cause and won't dream of supporting any people, or event, that is handled in the manner they have handled this.

[Schiada76]

RioM,
My apologies if you took my rant about wars being religious based wrong. I get tired of hearing libs blame war on religion when most war is about power, control and money. My response was to deecandybars insulting post. BTW you obviousley are far from a simpleton. :D
This current war that Israel is engaged in, defensively only on Israels part, is not simple at all. It's been orchestrated by Iran with tacit approval from Russia, France and China to name a few. Remnants of the cold war have been driving the Middle East situation for many years to say nothing of the Soviet backed attacks on Israel. The current govt. in power in Iran is a direct result of Jiminy Catuh abandoning the Shah to the muslim loons in the seventies. Iran was our ally in the cold war against the Soviet Union. We can't make the mistake of brushing this off as a religious war. It's strategic, 100%.
It's a global stuggle for supremacy. Iran is a tool of the Chinese, Russians the French and are also trying to establish themselves as the controlling influence in the Mid East. Which would make them a huge global power (controlling oil). They are using pyscho muslims as their tool and as a smokescreen.
They are not just attacking Israel, they are testing us. You all better pray Israel wins and quickly. Nukes are not far out of this picture. :frown:
Almost forgot, Iranian's are Caucasian not Arabic they controll hezbollah.

[Seadog]

Entire books have and will be written about the centuries of conflict in the middle east. For thousands of years, jewish kings have ruled the area, until the Persians (Iran) defeated them. More recently, the Ottoman empire had control of the area until picking the wrong side in WWI. The area was split among the victors. France was given the area that is now Syria and Lebanon. The British had Egypt and what is now Israel. There is no such thing as Palestine. The name derives from philistines, which were wandering tribes from around Greece and Turkey, among other areas.
After WWII, many jews took up the concept of a zionist nation. This was nothing new, having its start in the 1800s. One colony was started in New York state. Since Jeruselum was consider the holy land, many of the displaced jews immigrated there. The British tried to resist the immigration of jews and were attacked by terrorist cells. Finally, the British conceded the land to a joint occupation derived by the UN. Many brits still have animosity to the Israelis due to the terrorist acts then. The joint control failed in the first Israeli-Arab war (post WWII). After that, there were constant conflict.
Numerous things have happened since then. Egypt decided to take over the Suez Canal from the British/French operating company. During the battleing, Eisenhower could not support the British and French governments due to our making a big fuss over Russia's assualt on Hungary during the attempted revolution.
In 1967, the arab countries tried an all out assault on the Israelis. Brilliant tactics and use of their military gave the Israelis a victory and they gained a lot of territory. The arabs tried again in 1973(?) and almost succeeded due to Israeli mistakes, but again they prevailed. While the bulk of the captured lands were returned to the arabs in negotiations, the Israeli still control certain key areas that they did not have prior to 1967.
When dumbass Jimmy Carter took office, he failed to understand the logistics and dynamics of the Middle East and abandoned Iran to the religeous fanatics. He still cannot understand that christian good will is wasted on those who understand only hate. His naive stupidity turned the balance of the Middle East into a spiral that threatens the future of the area and the world.
There is fault on both sides, and the amusing part about this, is that the Israeli have more culturally and religeously to the muslim arabs, than to the christian countries in europe. It is just like the warfare between the shiites and the sunnis. They do not understand anything but hatred. The sects mullahs teach hatred of anyone who is not of their faith. Until these mullahs are destroyed, and several generations of muslims are taught how to live with each other, peace will never be possible.
Most people do not try to understand the history and dynamics of the Middle East. Bush went into Iraq without the power, resources, and attitude that was needed. The public is associating the Middle East with Vietnam. What should have been done with Iraq, is to gone in with enough force to secure everything as they went. That means a plan to occupy every little thing until it could be secured and checked out. With the attacking forces, should have been engineers and plans for immediately restoring the infrastucture. The Iraq military should have been kept intact, with the troops being assigned areas that they could take care of without problems. Al Sadr should have been taken out as soon as he started rabble rousing.
The Middle East is a war zone that we will be involved with. If we warble all over the area, we will lose big time.

[Seadog]

BTW, Lebanon did not exist until the French split it from Syria. Before then, it was a christian stronghold within Syria. The French split it off to allow a christian controlled nation in the Middle East. If it were not for the arabs from Syria and terrorist groups like Hezbollah, Lebanon would be a stable country with good relations with Israel.

[bigq]

Entire books have and will be written about the centuries of conflict in the middle east. For thousands of years, jewish kings have ruled the area, until the Persians (Iran) defeated them. More recently, the Ottoman empire had control of the area until picking the wrong side in WWI. The area was split among the victors. France was given the area that is now Syria and Lebanon. The British had Egypt and what is now Israel. There is no such thing as Palestine. The name derives from philistines, which were wandering tribes from around Greece and Turkey, among other areas.
After WWII, many jews took up the concept of a zionist nation. This was nothing new, having its start in the 1800s. One colony was started in New York state. Since Jeruselum was consider the holy land, many of the displaced jews immigrated there. The British tried to resist the immigration of jews and were attacked by terrorist cells. Finally, the British conceded the land to a joint occupation derived by the UN. Many brits still have animosity to the Israelis due to the terrorist acts then. The joint control failed in the first Israeli-Arab war (post WWII). After that, there were constant conflict.
Numerous things have happened since then. Egypt decided to take over the Suez Canal from the British/French operating company. During the battleing, Eisenhower could not support the British and French governments due to our making a big fuss over Russia's assualt on Hungary during the attempted revolution.
In 1967, the arab countries tried an all out assault on the Israelis. Brilliant tactics and use of their military gave the Israelis a victory and they gained a lot of territory. The arabs tried again in 1973(?) and almost succeeded due to Israeli mistakes, but again they prevailed. While the bulk of the captured lands were returned to the arabs in negotiations, the Israeli still control certain key areas that they did not have prior to 1967.
When dumbass Jimmy Carter took office, he failed to understand the logistics and dynamics of the Middle East and abandoned Iran to the religeous fanatics. He still cannot understand that christian good will is wasted on those who understand only hate. His naive stupidity turned the balance of the Middle East into a spiral that threatens the future of the area and the world.
There is fault on both sides, and the amusing part about this, is that the Israeli have more culturally and religeously to the muslim arabs, than to the christian countries in europe. It is just like the warfare between the shiites and the sunnis. They do not understand anything but hatred. The sects mullahs teach hatred of anyone who is not of their faith. Until these mullahs are destroyed, and several generations of muslims are taught how to live with each other, peace will never be possible.
Most people do not try to understand the history and dynamics of the Middle East. Bush went into Iraq without the power, resources, and attitude that was needed. The public is associating the Middle East with Vietnam. What should have been done with Iraq, is to gone in with enough force to secure everything as they went. That means a plan to occupy every little thing until it could be secured and checked out. With the attacking forces, should have been engineers and plans for immediately restoring the infrastucture. The Iraq military should have been kept intact, with the troops being assigned areas that they could take care of without problems. Al Sadr should have been taken out as soon as he started rabble rousing.
The Middle East is a war zone that we will be involved with. If we warble all over the area, we will lose big time.
Nice sumation...
That war in 67 still causes a lot of issues. Arabs want the land back, but they attacked Israel, go figure :rolleyes:

[CMATT21]

It's not about religion. Thats good. When this is all over . I mean when it's ALL OVER. Those won't be your words. My My My! Aren't you quite the genius? Nice google search.
Sadly though you being the simpleton that you are you missed the point.
The overwhelming number of wars are wars of conquest for power and money.
The Roman empire was not founded on religious imperialism for one. Now take a deep breath do another few searches and you'll find I'm right.
If you want to educate yourself a little bit on the current cause of conflict in the Middle east start with the Ottoman Empire and it's collapse after WWI.
It's not about religion.

[CMATT21]

> "SHITTY LITTLE COUNTRY"
>
>
> The Middle East has been growing date palms for centuries. The average tree is about 18-20 feet tall and yields about 38 pounds of dates a year.
>
> Israeli date trees are now yielding 400 pounds/year and are short enough to be harvested from the ground or a short ladder.
>
> Israel the 100th smallest country, with less than 1/1000th of the world's population, can lay claim to the following :
>
> The cell phone was developed in Israel by Israelis working in the Israeli branch of Motorola, which has its largest development center in Israel .
>
> Most of the Windows NT and XP operating systems were developed by Microsoft-Israel.
>
> The Pentium MMX Chip technology was designed in Israel at Intel .
>
> Both the Pentium-4 microprocessor and the Centrino processor were entirely designed, developed and produced in Israel.
>
> The Pentium microprocessor in your computer was most likely made in Israel.
>
> Voice mail technology was developed in Israel.
>
> Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only R&D facilities outside the US in Israel.
>
> The technology for the AOL Instant Messenger ICQ was developed in 1996 by four young Israelis.
>
> Israel has the fourth largest air force in the world (after the U.S, Russia and China). In addition to a large variety of other aircraft, Israel's air force has an aerial arsenal of over 250 F-16's. This is the largest fleet of F-16 aircraft outside of the U. S.
>
> Israel's $100 billion economy is larger than all of its immediate neighbors combined.
>
> Israel has the highest percentage in the world of home computers per capita.
>
> According to industry officials, Israel designed the airline industry's most impenetrable flight security. US officials now look (finally) to Israel for advice on how to handle airborne security threats.
>
> Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees to the population in the world.
>
> Israel produces more scientific papers per capita than any other nation by a large margin - 109 per 10,000 people --as well as one of the highest per capita rates of patents filed.
>
> In proportion to its population, Israel has the largest number of startup companies in the world. In absolute terms, Israel has the largest number of startup companies than any other country in the world, except the U.S. (3,500 companies mostly in hi-tech).
>
> With more than 3,000 high-tech companies and startups, Israel has the highest concentration of hi-tech companies in the world -- apart from the Silicon Valley, U.S.
>
> Israel is ranked #2 in the world for venture capital funds right behind the U.S.
>
> Outside the United States and Canada, Israel has the largest number of NASDAQ listed companies.
>
> Israel has the highest average living standards in the Middle East.
>
> The per capita income in 2000 was over $17,500, exceeding that of the UK.
>
> On a per capita basis, Israel has the largest number of biotech startups.
>
> Twenty-four per cent of Israel's workforce holds university degrees, ranking third in the industrialized world, after the United States and Holland and 12 per cent hold advanced degrees.
>
> Israel is the only liberal democracy in the Middle East.
>
> In 1984 and 1991, Israel airlifted a total of 22,000 Ethiopian Jews (Operation Solomon) at Risk in Ethiopia, to safety in Israel.
>
> When Golda Meir was elected Prime Minister of Israel in 1969, she became the world's second elected female leader in modern times.
>
> When the U. S. Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya was bombed in 1998, Israeli rescue teams were on the scene within a day -- and saved three victims from the rubble.
>
> Israel has the third highest rate of entrepreneurship -- and the highest rate among women and among people over 55 - in the world.
>
> Relative to its population, Israel is the largest immigrant-absorbing nation on earth. Immigrants come in search of democracy, religious freedom, and economic opportunity. (Hundreds of thousands from the former Soviet Union)
>
> Israel was the first nation in the world to adopt the Kimberly process, an international standard that certifies diamonds as "conflict free."
>
> Israel has the world's second highest per capita of new books.
>
> Israel is the only country in the world that entered the 21st century with a net gain in its number of trees, made more remarkable because this was achieved in an area considered mainly desert.
>
> Israel has more museums per capita than any other country.
>
> Medicine... Israeli scientists developed the first fully computerized, no-radiation, diagnostic instrumentation for breast cancer.
>
> An Israeli company developed a computerized system for ensuring proper administration of medications, thus removing human error from medical treatment. Every year in U. S. hospitals 7,000 patients die from treatment mistakes.
>
> Israel's Given Imaging developed the first ingestible video camera, so small it fits inside a pill. Used to view the small intestine from the inside, cancer and digestive disorders .
>
> Researchers in Israel developed a new device that directly helps the heart pump blood, an innovation with the potential to save lives among those with heart failure. The new device is synchronized with the camera helps doctors diagnose heart¹s mechanical operations through a sophisticated system of sensors.
>
> Israel leads the world in the number of scientists and technicians in the workforce, with 145 per 10,000, as opposed to 85 in the U. S., over 70 in Japan, and less than 60 in Germany. With over 25% of its work force employed in technical professions. Israel places first in this category as well.
>
> A new acne treatment developed in Israel, the Clear Light device, produces a high-intensity, ultraviolet-light-free, narrow-band blue light that causes acne bacteria to self-destruct -- all without damaging surrounding skin or tissue.
>
> An Israeli company was the first to develop and install a large-scale solar-powered and fully functional electricity generating plant, in southern California's Mojave desert.
>
> All the above while engaged in regular wars with an implacable enemy that seeks its destruction, and an economy continuously under strain by having to spend more per capita on its own protection than any other county on earth.
>
> . .. . . AND THE FRENCH AMBASSADOR IN ENGLAND SAYS :
>
> "ISRAEL IS NOTHING BUT A SHITTY LITTLE COUNTRY"
:argue:

[lewiville]

for once a thread worth reading,and i'm learning some thing :cool:
Dude its a friggen college education.
We are all doing good and not shooting each other down ( for the most part ).
The whole idea of this thread was to help me learn something that I could not seem to piece together.
Great job peep's.

[Old Guy]

I think that perhaps the most valuable information to surface here is about enlightenment.
In most parts of the world, people are controlled as to which thoughts are proper and which are not. This starts when they are very young. What you are taught when you are a small child, will likely stay with you your whole life.
The first great teaching is that someone else will decide for you. All things important will be decided for you. It is not necessary for you to struggle with unfamiliar concepts, someone much wiser will tell you what to think. Just do what you are told to do and you will be just fine.
This great Authority will be known as "XXXXXX" (President, Pope, Doctor, Wife......). You get the picture.
With the freedom to "self determine" comes the great responsibility to be "self informed". That is to examine with an open mind (what a cool concept) the available information and seek truths that will guide future decisions.
This is where the trouble starts. People in this country think that everyone wants to be free. That is not close to being true. Most people want to be secure and safe from harm. A powerful Dictator can probably provide that for you. If you are free, you may need to provide for your own security.
It's not difficult to see why so many prefer to have someone else do their thinking for them. It leaves them with no responsibility for almost everything they say and do.
old

[Seadog]

You can see interesting parallels to what is happening and has happened elsewhere. At the end of WWI, jews made up only 11% of the area population. By WWII, the population was around 30+%. More importantly, jews owned the majority of the land. At the beginning, the arabs did not mind the influx of jews, but as the jews gain power and land, they started to resent it. History shows that the indigenous populations can usually handle a certain flow of immigrants, but when it passes a certain point, it is viewed as an invasion.
Another factor is the differences in traditions. The European jews coming in, brought european attitudes and customs. The arabs did not own land, but they did own the olive trees, being handed down for centuries within each family. An olive tree can live for over a thousand year and is a major source of income. The europeans moved in, bought the land and claimed the trees. This was contrary to arab custom, but since Britain was controlling the area, they had a tendency to side with land ownership.
Scholars have argued who did what to who for this entire century. The problem is that all parties have committed grave sins, all parties have given in to rhetoric over facts, and all parties have legitimate arguments.

[DeeCandyBar]

You can see interesting parallels to what is happening and has happened elsewhere. At the end of WWI, jews made up only 11% of the area population. By WWII, the population was around 30+%. More importantly, jews owned the majority of the land. At the beginning, the arabs did not mind the influx of jews, but as the jews gain power and land, they started to resent it. History shows that the indigenous populations can usually handle a certain flow of immigrants, but when it passes a certain point, it is viewed as an invasion.
Another factor is the differences in traditions. The European jews coming in, brought european attitudes and customs. The arabs did not own land, but they did own the olive trees, being handed down for centuries within each family. An olive tree can live for over a thousand year and is a major source of income. The europeans moved in, bought the land and claimed the trees. This was contrary to arab custom, but since Britain was controlling the area, they had a tendency to side with land ownership.
Scholars have argued who did what to who for this entire century. The problem is that all parties have committed grave sins, all parties have given in to rhetoric over facts, and all parties have legitimate arguments.
sure but this war is not about olive trees or traditions. it's about hezbollah killing israelis on behalf of iran who has called for the annihilation of all jews everywhere.

[Jesster]

Muslims have been taught to hate and Kill Jews for centuries, Going all the way back to Isaac and Ishmael, I have a hard time believing there was ever a point in history that the Muslims didn’t mind an influx of Jews.
I don't know if I am reading anything into your post but Muslims would not be better off in any way at any point in history if anybody would have just left them alone.
Two reasons:
1. Oil, they, we God brought us all together with oil, meaning they were going to be exposed to us and the Western ways regardless of what anybody did.
2. They're religion dictates that they kill all non-believers. It does not say this directly if it is taken in context but it does say do not kill unjustly, kill in a just cause. Well, how do you think a life long, Islamic following, turban wearing, gun toting Muslim is going to read that. And given enough pressure, rhetoric and time most Muslims will end up agreeing that it is a just cause to kill non-believers or if not kill them directly not raise a hand to stop it. Obviously there are exceptions but have you seen any protests by Muslim Americans? For the MOST part they are silent on the whole thing.
This brings me back to the leave them alone thing. Their way of life as it exists cannot continue in today’s world. For the peaceful Muslims more power to them but the religion as it exists breeds contempt for the haves and as far as the vast majority of Muslims are concerned (not to mention the socioeconomic status of most Muslims in the Mid-East) everybody else is in the haves category. Meaning Muslims even the peaceful ones need to look at the world differently.
Many religions have had to go through a change in paradigm. Look at Christianity, definitely needed a Paradigm change and got one as it is a peaceful religion today as compared to what it was. The Muslim religion still exists as a 14th century warrior cult and in today's world it can't be allowed to exist in its present form.