Crankcase vacume pumps?

[Squirtcha?]

Pondering some different things. First a puke tank, primarily to keep the valve covers clean. I run a PCV and your standard valve cover breathers. The motor doesn't spew oil, but will mist the covers when I stay in it for long periods of time. I ran a leakdown test on my motor the other day and everything looks real good considering it has five hard seasons on it, and many bottles of nitrous run through it.
As an alternative, I've seen where a number of guys are running the crankcase vacuum pumps and was curious as to how well they work. If there are any measurable gains by running them etc. I've heard some guesstimates on horsepower increases and wondered if they really help, or not. If I understand the concept correctly they're supposed to allow/help the rings to seal better?
Just looking for some validation here. Or somebody who's in the know to set me straight.
I'd also be curious to see some vacuum pump plumbing setups if somebody has pictures?
Thanks
Dan

[poncho-pwr]

I really like vacuum pumps and although you will see the most HP gains if you are also running low-tension rings, you will still see gains running a regular ring pack as well. I have never seen a loss of HP by installing a vacuum pump and I have seen as much as 28HP gain on an engine with a standard style ring pack. That same engine was run on the dyno with a pan evac system before installing the vacuum pump and the pan evac system was worth 12HP. This testing was all done on a n/a 511 ci engine.The one thing I would recommend you do for a non drag race application is to run a vacuum relief valve and regulate how much vacuum you run and keep it to 15" or less, preferably in the 12-15" range or you can run into some oiling issues in some cases with the pins. I like them and think they are easy horsepower. Hope that helps.

[Squirtcha?]

That's consistent with everything I've been reading. Right down to the vacuum relief valve and setting it to 15" of vacuum. I'm not using low tension rings and I'm gapped for nitrous. I am using the total seal gapless/staggered ring pack though.
This bit concerned me some.
Excerpt from Dragstuff.com tech articles / vacuum pumps (http://www.dragstuff.com/techarticles/vacuum-pumps.html)
"How many runs should your pumps go before rebuild?
When they need rebuilt, you'll see a drop in vacuum by about 4", that's a good indicator. How many runs it will last is entirely dependant on how much oil mist the pump gets during use. That is hard to predict, but you should figure at least 150-200 1/4 mile passes, significantly more if the pump has adequite oil mist going through it."
Not exactly a long life considering the price of those things.
Thanks for the reply poncho-power. Anybody else? Got pictures?
http://www.dragstuff.com/techarticles/images/vacuumpump/sportsmanpump.jpg

[Cs19]

there is a few threads in gear heads on pumps, might be worth reading..do some research online too, you will find all sorts of stuff about pumps on the sportsman drag racing and pro street forums..enough info to make your head spin.. :rollside:
Ive ran mine for a few seasons without rebuilding and no problems..It seems there is some gray area when it comes to how much vacuum to run on a street or river engine, from what Im reading most car guys dont run much of any vacuum on the street then they crank down on the regulator when its time to get after it.As far as pumps go, Moroso has an updated 3 vein for wet sumps that apparently works good, there are some issues with the shaft on the old style, so be aware. Good luck.

[T-56]

There is a GM part # for an electric vacume pump for some of the Corvettes.
I don't know which Vette it is, but they seem to last for years on Dirt Track cars.
Plus, w/ an electric pump, you can remote locate it and don't have to worry about another drive belt.
$0.02....
EDIT: They don't draw many amps. The cars that I've seen them on were only running a 30A alternator that was made into the water pump.

[UBFJ #454]

Dan -
If you want to come over and look at how we have our vacuum pump system set up your more than welcome to.
jak

[Squirtcha?]

Thanks for the replies. Still looking favorable, and hearing that CS's pump has lasted a couple years helps. I know you use your boat a lot Chris, and so do I.
Chris, I have been doing some research and the information has been helpful, however the techie article I was reading was more like a sales pitch than technical information. I'll do some more reading and check the other forums you mentioned.
T-56 I've been doing some reading on the electric pumps too. Haven't decided which way to go just yet, but kinda leaning towards the mechanical right now. Thanks for posting up.
Jak, might just take you up on that offer. Kinda going crazy with work and the holiday coming up right now. It's not something I intended to do in the next week or so anyway. I typically research things to death before actually doing anything. If you don't mind shooting me your digits on a pm or email? I've lost a harddrive since I called last and your number and address were on that harddrive.
Thanks
Dan
Anybody else? Good or bad, I'd still like some more info if you have anything.

[Youngblood]

Moroso pumps (http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=17200)
The enhanced Moroso pump would be a very good choice & all of theirs are servicable not to mention they will produce more vacuum than any factory GM/Ford etc...pump could ever think of.

[drysumpjet]

There are rumors that vacuum pumps tend to pull lots of oil out of the motor along with the air, perhaps due to a valve cover baffling (or lack of baffling) issue?
Another pricey and space/weight permitting approach to obtain crankcase vacuum is a drysump system. The scavenger oil pumps also doubles as vacuum pumps. Mine maintains around 12". The external oil tank does a great job of separating the oil and air.
Some benefits of crankcase vacuum (either vacuum pump or drysump) are the oil tends to stay cooler (removal of hot crankcase gases) and cleaner (due to contaminants are suck out before they are absorbed in the oil). Also the oil tends to "milk up" less as the vacuum removes crankcase water vapor.

[Squirtcha?]

Thanks for the link Youngblood. Looks like the best price for the original design is about $359. Not terrible. Of couse then I get to add in the fittings, hoses, belt, pulley etc. etc.
http://www.dougherbert.com/images/MOR%2022640.jpg

[Taylorman]

Dan,
I have some leakage past my rings and was getting a little oil out of the dipstick tube when i ran it at wot. I had a puke tank but put my crankcase evac back on and it cured the oil out of the dipstick. I simply ran braided lines from valve covers to the exhaust. Im not using any check valves.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/vidrinek/Boat/100_1438.jpg

[Cs19]

Id look into a pan-evac system like Taylorman has Squirtcha. Vacuum systems are more for the guy thats trying to find that extra 30 HP to shave a few .05 at the track (in my opinion) and there is a healthy price tag with them after you add up the pump,mounts, hoses,fittings,weld on bungs,catch can and drive accessories. Considering you dont have the things that help make the extra power (like piston rings) Id reccomend the panevac, it would suck to drop $600 bucks on this system and see no gains whatsoever at the lake other than clean valve covers.Run more NOS if you want to go faster. :) As far as the drysump like Jak and the other guys have, break out the credit card !!
There is my .02.
Chris.

[Aluminum Squirt]

I little off topic here but, what is the generally accepted method of venting the engine on a not-too-exotic set up? I was running the little push in K&N's and was getting a rediculous amount of blow by/oil puking. Granted my motor is shot and I'm pretty sure its rings, but what is the best way to go? PCV on one side, vented on the other? Both sides to a puke tak? Vented to headers? My set up will be a ZZ4 eventually, and it will almostly entirely be run at WOT for somewhere between 15-45 minutes at a time. We are restricted from running dry sumps or anything crazy like that because I run in a crate motor class. The big dogs in the upper classes all run dry sump systems. Any suggestions? Sorry for the partial thread hijack-Aluminum Squirt

[Squirtcha?]

Good stuff here.
No sweat on the hijack Al Squirt. As far as I'm concerned it's still on topic.
Chris and Taylorman, I've considered the panevac setup. My headers aren't exactly pristine, but they're still in pretty good shape. I'm not anxious to weld some pipe to them. Haven't totally discounted the idea, but hesitant just the same. Might still go with a puke tank only. I have an old 1 gallon spun aluminum nitrous fuel tank that would just need a couple bungs welded in. Also have some left over -10 lines and fittings. I'd just have to rework my valve covers some to put it all together. Also need to figure out a clean way to mount the tank (cleaner than the picture below).
As for the bigger shot of nitrous...............She's hanging fine with the 150, but I don't know how much more she'd take with stock rods and a two bolt crank (even though it's a Ford crank and the caps/bearings are pretty big).
http://www.homestead.com/jetboat/files/img_0313e.jpg

[460 jus getn it]

Dan, im having the same thing happen on my ford. Little mist out of the breather while on it for a long time. I have a pcv on the passenger side and a breather on the other side. Im going to install an evac system after this season.

[UBFJ #454]

Dan - Check your PM's.

[sleekcrafter]

I run a couple breathers from a header evac system, with hoses run up to the scoop pan. I don't ever use or loose a drop of oil, and has been running 7 seasons now.
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/7363100_0293-med.JPG

[olbiezer]

dont stop now guys.........i have the k & N push in filters also and like someone said its rediculess how much oil blows out on the valve covers....i like the hose to the scoop pan idear..does anyone lese use that system at all? :argue:

[78CoLe]

I just bought the summit evac kit for like $50.00 had alot of blow buy i was running 2 pvc and a breather barrowed my buddy evac not another problem last weekend and i ran it hard he's running a 514ci ford with bluethunders heads and the motor builder put them on the motorduring dyno gained 8 hp for 50.00 not bad

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Great thread dan! I get a little oil on my valvecovers at high rps as well. I went to lopers and bought thier "Mr Gasket" panevac system for $30. I will be welding bungs in my headers this week. I will be using steel braided lines to the headers. I say either puke tank or panevac;) Cheap on the wallet and efficient....