460 Issues

[77 Eliminator]

I have a 20 foot 1977 Eliminator mini day cruiser with a 460 Ford and a Berkeley split bowel pump. I just bought the boat and after the first sort trip out the boat was running very ruff with a lot of black smoke from the exhaust at idle once the boat was up on plane it seemed to run fine with out issues it has a Holley double pumper carb on it, I ran the boat for about an hour then at cruising speed the boat just quit and turned over but would not fire, once I returned home I checked the oil and it was milky with water. The boat had been sitting for about a year and a half. The previous owner had the motor and carb rebuilt and had only ran the boat a few times since. The boat also has transom exhaust. I checked the "T" valve and it is just a open fitting, are these suppose to have a spring and ball inside them or is that just for over the transom headers? Any help you can give to help steer me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.

[Rampager]

Could be a few things but my first guess would be a head gasket. Water is getting into the oil somehow and thats one way it can. You also want to look at how the water going into the block is regulated because the block cannot take the full pressure from the jetpump. Usually you want 15 psi tops and there are many ways guys acomplish that.
Next you can check the timing cover. The 460 has a funny bit on the casting that can possibly break thru, if it does there is potential for a leak into the timing cover and then into the pan.
Can you get a bit more info to us and or some pics? did you pull plugs yet to see how they look? usually if its a head gasket you can tell what cylinder(s) are not firing
Cheers

[LakesOnly]

I have a 20 foot 1977 Eliminator mini day cruiser with a 460 Ford...after the first sort trip out the boat was running very ruff with a lot of black smoke from the exhaust at idle once the boat was up on plane it seemed to run fine with out issues it has a Holley double pumper carb on it, I ran the boat for about an hour then at cruising speed the boat just quit and turned over but would not fire, once I returned home I checked the oil and it was milky with water. The boat had been sitting for about a year and a half. The previous owner had the motor and carb rebuilt and had only ran the boat a few times since. The boat also has transom exhaust. I checked the "T" valve and it is just a open fitting, are these suppose to have a spring and ball inside them or is that just for over the transom headers? Any help you can give to help steer me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.The black smoke could be rich mixture setting on the carburetor...simple fix, unless the black smoke is a sign of something else going in the motor...
I don't think thru-transom logs need a t-valve with the ball check in it..only the OT headers benefit from that feature/fitting.
In regards to the milky oil: drain the oil, change the oil & filter and see if it milkshakes again; might have been condensation (how bad was it?).
All of these things might be easily addressable, but if these symptoms thus far descibed end up being bigger probs, then it is still fixable but not necessarily in a few minutes.
LO

[LakesOnly]

The 460 has a funny bit on the casting that can possibly break thru, if it does there is potential for a leak into the timing cover and then into the pan.
CheersBeing that it is made of cast aluminum, the timing cover is suceptible to water corrosion, but the most common wall in the timing cover that corrodes and breaks through does not allow for a path of water into the engine; rather, it is just a dead cavity within the cover that the water fills, that's all.
LO

[Rampager]

yes thats true and i didn't mean to imply that it becomes a guaranteed leak but when that cavity is full of water there is only a very small gasket area between water and the part of the cover where you most certainly do not want water. It can become an issue especially with older covers that are in poor condition or if someone was not careful during aseembly of the timing cover etc
Just figured I would make him aware if he is unfamiliar with the 460
Cheers

[pywackett2000]

My holley every year needed new needle assemblies. The fuel dries up and the needle and seat assembly wont needle and seat. It will just let in crap loads of fuel causing black smoke and usually a paddling situation! As for the water er, milkshake i should say, if the previous owner ever really got alot of water in the boat you could get water in the oil by it seeping around the timing cover seal if the boat was running at the time of the incident. Could be the reason he sold it, one big leak will make you sell everything if its big enough! To fix the carb at the end of the season put a squirt of silicon spray or w-d40 in your fuel inlet before you store the boat or if its going to set for a long time. But you will probably have to rebuild the carb.

[Hiddenvalley-Kid]

Fighting same problem with friend's boat now. He is at Water Wheel picking it up as I write this. I suspect the block is full of sand causing an overheating problem. Pull block plugs and flush out. At least could be a blown head gasket. I hope it is not worse.

[cudaz101]

Once the Bearings get wet in the rotating assembly I always thought it was a MUST to replace them??
Brad

[GottaJet]

In my experience here on the boards Lakes seems to be the guy when it comes to anything 460 so do yourself a favor and listen to any advice he offers. A personnel experience of mine though: I had the same milshake problem your describing and when I pulled the front piece of my timing cover (obviously on a 460 as well) I found that little hole in the corner that kept getting bigger everytime I touched it due to a pretty bad corrosion problem. Anyway long story short I changed the timing cover and gaskets and the milkshake went away. Maybe I got lucky and changed a bad gasket at the same time I don't know. Hope this is any kind of help/answer for you. Just my .02

[77 Eliminator]

All,
Thanks for your imput on this! I have solved the carb problem it was due to old gas in the tanks. I changed the oil and ran the boat again, it ran great. However it did milk the oil AGAIN. I pulled the motor checked the intake, timing cover and heads along with all their gaskets. I still see no appent problem where water is getting into the oil. Any other ideas? Could the plumbing from the pump into the motor cause this if it was routed wrong or could the water logs themselves in any way cause this to happen? Thanks again for the help!

[twowheeledfish]

All,
Thanks for your imput on this! I have solved the carb problem it was due to old gas in the tanks. I changed the oil and ran the boat again, it ran great. However it did milk the oil AGAIN. I pulled the motor checked the intake, timing cover and heads along with all their gaskets. I still see no appent problem where water is getting into the oil. Any other ideas? Could the plumbing from the pump into the motor cause this if it was routed wrong or could the water logs themselves in any way cause this to happen? Thanks again for the help!
I've seen the log headers melt their water jackets from a previous owner plugging them with sand and subsequent overheating... this resulted in the engine sucking water in the engine on each exhaust valve opening, thus making the milkshake.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

I've only had to replace 2 Holley needls/seat assy's in 28 years, maybe I've been lucky.
Logs can also corrode internally through from the water jacket to the exhaust stream. Mine did finally summer '05, 27 years, she sat unused some of those years tho, unused and full of glycol.
Make sure the valving from your pump to the engine for cooling water is NOT WIDE OPEN. The block seals will not hold that pressure of water, and it is not needed. The controll valve needs to be open only very little. I set mine and it maintains an idle temp arround 180* and aprox 140* at most any elevated throttle setting. Have never had any seal-blowing or condensation troubles.

[Dominator Scott]

All,
Thanks for your imput on this! I have solved the carb problem it was due to old gas in the tanks. I changed the oil and ran the boat again, it ran great. However it did milk the oil AGAIN. I pulled the motor checked the intake, timing cover and heads along with all their gaskets. I still see no appent problem where water is getting into the oil. Any other ideas? Could the plumbing from the pump into the motor cause this if it was routed wrong or could the water logs themselves in any way cause this to happen? Thanks again for the help!
I had this same problem with my dad's Sanger which also has a 460. I ended up putting in a dump valve where the water is delivered from the pump to the engine so the motor isn't over pressurized and it took care of the issue. The valve allows a certain amount of water into the motor and when the pressure exceeds what the valve is set at,it dumps the excess water out through a dump fitting in the transom. Like a bilge pump. It works great and I haven't had an issue since.
Here is the only pic I have. If you look back at the jet you can see a little red water valve(like a water spicket for your garden hose.) That is the control valve which regulates your water intake. You can also see the dump hose that goes through the transom to bleed off excess water pressure.