Texas Tunnel owners.....

[1968Droptop]

I'm looking to find out more about Texas tunnel boats. I'd like some personal expiences with this specific boat, and maybe some details photo's if possible. I'd also like to here what you like and don't like about these hulls. I'm looking to purchase one, but would like some input, good or bad.

[sdba069]

I've owned a few of them, what would you like to know? You can respond to my email if you like, snowman069@hotmail.com

[1968Droptop]

I've owned a few of them, what would you like to know? You can respond to my email if you like, snowman069@hotmail.com
Took you up on your offer, check your e-mail. THANKS !!!!

[78CoLe]

hey sdba 069 did you own a 16' white texes tunnel named snowman cause if you did i got it here in needles ca we won pro gas jet with it in 2002 well actually pete mconnell did

[RICHARD TILL]

a friend of mine and myself own three of them. i think its one of the quickest hulls made. you`ll have to show it the upmost respect. great race boat and a fair lake boat. has`nt happened to us yet but we know it will pitch your but in a new york second.

[MikeF]

but we know it will pitch your but in a new york second.
Happens REAL QUICK! Seen it at near top speed (albeit in some really choppy water).
For recreational boating......opinion, stay away from this hull. :rollside:

[1968Droptop]

Happens REAL QUICK!
For recreational boating......opinion, stay away from this hull. :rollside:
That's the kind of info I'm looking for right there. I've been told they're a real fast hull, but that's all I really know. I took a ride in a 21' Eliminator the other weekend, my fist time in a tunnel. What an GREAT riding boat !!! 1.5' of chop, 4 people, 50 gallons of fuel and 90+, smooth as glass . I was hooked right away ! I'd heard that the Texas Tunnels are really fast which naturally got my interest. I'm not going to race it, except against my buddies, and it will indeed spend most if it's time on a lake.
If a TT isn't what I'm after, I'm open to opinions. I want it to be fast (who doesn't), but not flighty. I doubt if I want to go to a 21', I'd prefer a `19. My current 18' Sanger Sprint is a kick in the *ss, but a bit rough compaired to that Daytona. I'm 6'5", so I'll somehow need to fit into whatever I get :rollside:
Thanks for sharing your experiences !!!

[SmokinLowriderSS]

a friend of mine and myself own three of them. i think its one of the quickest hulls made. you`ll have to show it the upmost respect. great race boat and a fair lake boat. hasn't happened to us yet but we know it will pitch your but in a new york second.
I've heard them refered to as "Texas-get-wet's" in certain circles.

[steelcomp]

That's the kind of info I'm looking for right there. I've been told they're a real fast hull, but that's all I really know. I took a ride in a 21' Eliminator the other weekend, my fist time in a tunnel. What an GREAT riding boat !!! 1.5' of chop, 4 people, 50 gallons of fuel and 90+, smooth as glass . I was hooked right away ! I'd heard that the Texas Tunnels are really fast which naturally got my interest. I'm not going to race it, except against my buddies, and it will indeed spend most if it's time on a lake.
If a TT isn't what I'm after, I'm open to opinions. I want it to be fast (who doesn't), but not flighty. I doubt if I want to go to a 21', I'd prefer a `19. My current 18' Sanger Sprint is a kick in the *ss, but a bit rough compaired to that Daytona. I'm 6'5", so I'll somehow need to fit into whatever I get :rollside:
Thanks for sharing your experiences !!!Look for a deal on a 19' Youngblood, Earl Smith, or CP gullwing.

[IMPATIENT 1]

i'm hooked on gettin a cheyenne tunnel. best of both worlds from what i've herd. they ride great, stable and it doesn't take a thousand hp to get it to upper 90's.

[Wicked Performance Boats]

We'll make you a deal on a NEW Wicked gullwing! has the best of all the gullwings and it can be rigged for a 6'5" guy. Budlight :idea:http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2295100_2267-med.JPG

[78CoLe]

hey pat dont forget about the deal we talked about it still stands he when you guys coming down next give me a call

[MikeF]

The gullwing is not going to ride like a 19'/21' tunnel. If I were to buy a hull today it would be an Eliminator Daytona, or buying new.....would be an Edge Stealth.

[sdba069]

If you are looking for a lake boat, I'd steer away from the Earl Smith hull. I'll argue with anyone that the best all around jet boat ever made is a 19' gullwing. Doesn't take a lot of motor to go relatively fast, plenty of room, and handles well. Tunnels look good and go fast but give up user comfort.

[jrork]

Knock it off Droppy. Any of those boats mentioned wouldn't look right with a single 4 on an adapter bolted to a lowrise 2bbl cast iron Ford stationwagon intake manifold...
Sorry guys, kinda a inside joke between us last of the single 4 bunch in the Northwest..........

[1978 Rogers]

Knock it off Droppy. Any of those boats mentioned wouldn't look right with a single 4 on an adapter bolted to a lowrise 2bbl cast iron Ford stationwagon intake manifold...
Sorry guys, kinda a inside joke between us last of the single 4 bunch in the Northwest..........
I resent that comment John or resemble. One of them.

[Wicked Performance Boats]

The gullwing is not going to ride like a 19'/21' tunnel. If I were to buy a hull today it would be an Eliminator Daytona, or buying new.....would be an Edge Stealth.
You haven't ridden in a Wicked gullwing. Would you like to go for a ride so you can give an informed opinion? Not all gullwings ride the same. That's like saying all tunnels ride the same BL

[jrork]

I resent that comment John or resemble. One of them.
Don't worry Chris. You and Malcolm are included in the club. But there aint any more.

[Duane HTP]

I'd like to come see your place and take a ride some day. I would feel better about trying to sell your boats. Quite frankly, I've had very little interest in them. I believe that is only because they are not a well known boat in this area. Don't get me wrong, I'm not being negative in any way. I want to sell some of them. Just need some first had experience to be able to sell better.
Duane HTP

[olbiezer]

hey 1968 if u liked the 21 daytona why not look for a 19 daytona.....they scoot thrugh the due pretty well also and ride nice.......lots of em around also....... :) :rollside: :argue: if your ever in missisippi drop by for a ride

[MikeF]

You haven't ridden in a Wicked gullwing. Would you like to go for a ride so you can give an informed opinion? Not all gullwings ride the same. That's like saying all tunnels ride the same BL
If the opporotunity arises, I might like to go for a ride.
But I still stand by my statement that a tunnel will ride quite a bit better than any semi-V bottom boat in nearly any kind of water.

[1968Droptop]

olbiezer, I loved the way that Daytone rode, but didn't know if a 19 would ride similar. And thanks for the offer on the ride ! ! !
Bud Light, don't know chit about a true gull wing boat (I was under the impression a had one...W R O N G), but have not ruled one out in any way. I didn't seem to mind the inside of the Daytona at all.
steelcomp, I've heard a thing or two about Youngblood boats. Where can I find out more ?
sdba069, 'user comfort' ? All I need is a seat, steering wheel, and a place to set a cooler :cool:
IMPATIENT 1, tell me more about your Cheyenne. Are these as scary as the TT's ? Better suited for what I'm looking for ? Do you sit in the boat, or on the boat ? How many are actually out there ?
This is what I wanted to do, talk out loud about what I want, and learn as much as possible. When I purchased my Sanger Sprint I had no idea what I had purchased, other than a jet boat. I really have no copmplaints about this hull, it's a fun boat, but I want to go faster, and the ride of that tunnel in the chop was incredible. I had heard that the Texas Tunnel's were really fast hulls, but realistically I want something that can forgive the occasional rookie behind the wheel, and the Texas Tunnel doesn't sound like it is. olbiezer mentioned that there's a lot of Daytona's around, nothing against the current owners of these boats, but I like the idea of having a hull that's not very common. But not so much that I'd give up ride or stabilty to own an uncommon boat. I hope I'm making some sense, trying to type what you want is sometimes harder than just BSing face to face.
P.S. jrork :argue: , I was laughing my *ss off ! ! !

[Wicked Performance Boats]

olbiezer, I loved the way that Daytone rode, but didn't know if a 19 would ride similar. And thanks for the offer on the ride ! ! !
Bud Light, don't know chit about a true gull wing boat (I was under the impression a had one...W R O N G), but have not ruled one out in any way. I didn't seem to mind the inside of the Daytona at all.
steelcomp, I've heard a thing or two about Youngblood boats. Where can I find out more ?
sdba069, 'user comfort' ? All I need is a seat, steering wheel, and a place to set a cooler :cool:
IMPATIENT 1, tell me more about your Cheyenne. Are these as scary as the TT's ? Better suited for what I'm looking for ? Do you sit in the boat, or on the boat ? How many are actually out there ?
This is what I wanted to do, talk out loud about what I want, and learn as much as possible. When I purchased my Sanger Sprint I had no idea what I had purchased, other than a jet boat. I really have no copmplaints about this hull, it's a fun boat, but I want to go faster, and the ride of that tunnel in the chop was incredible. I had heard that the Texas Tunnel's were really fast hulls, but realistically I want something that can forgive the occasional rookie behind the wheel, and the Texas Tunnel doesn't sound like it is. olbiezer mentioned that there's a lot of Daytona's around, nothing against the current owners of these boats, but I like the idea of having a hull that's not very common. But not so much that I'd give up ride or stabilty to own an uncommon boat. I hope I'm making some sense, trying to type what you want is sometimes harder than just BSing face to face.
P.S. jrork :argue: , I was laughing my *ss off ! ! !
My offer to you 1968 DT, is Come take a ride. I live near Las Vegas, Nv, next to lake mead, one of the world's largest manmade lakes. flights into LV are every hour,can be had discounted. We're more than willing to let you compare hulls. WPB PS. I've got access to a 19ft eliminator that you can compare ours to. We're not ashamed to let you compare it to a Wicked gullwing

[TRG]

You haven't ridden in a Wicked gullwing. Would you like to go for a ride so you can give an informed opinion? Not all gullwings ride the same. That's like saying all tunnels ride the same BL
what makes your hull ride any different than any of the other said gull wings,... preferably scottens gullwing????
Just curious!
Todd

[blue wonder]

TPR STEALTH.....hands down..no questions asked...best hull ever built

[Cs19]

Duane come out labor Day weekend to the lower colorado river, it should be a fun weekend.
I like the way my daytona rides, not a single complaint, im convinced it handles the river chop as good if not better than other 18-19 hotrods but there isnt much room, the 19 gullwings have a really nice layout, lots of room and they run good too.Great lake boats.
bluewonder, how much better are the tprs than daytonas or cheyannes when it comes to handling? It sounds like you have it all figured out but last i checked they are all very similar.
:rolleyes:

[Wicked Performance Boats]

what makes your hull ride any different than any of the other said gull wings,... preferably scottens gullwing????
Just curious!
Todd
Todd, I'm not going on a public forum and telling everything about my hulls. No boat manufacturer has or will do that. #2. I'm not going on a public forum and bashing or comparing our hull to anybody else's hull, especially BS's. If you or anybody else wants to buy their hulls, fine, its ok. But check out ours personally, then try their's and compare. WE just are offering another option. I guess now I know why no boat manufacturers post on here! [Well almost no manufacturers] We as human beings only can form an intelligent opinion on what knowledge we personally have. How can you form an intelligent opinion when you haven't been exposed to all the information or experiences. Trust me , I don't know it all. But I'm trying to learn it all. I'll still be learning when I die. But never will I think something can't be improved on. No matter how long it's been around or who's name is on it. Meet us at the river and experience it yourself. Form your own opinion or just file away the knowledge for later. BL

[olbiezer]

hey pat.......not many gullwings around here that i know of.......u can pm me if u want and give me the answer to myquestion.......what makes gullwing hulls so fast? also do they chine walk at? my 19 daytona is so rock solid at speed. it just flattens out the chop........ :) :rollside:

[TRG]

Pat, I think you have me all wrong!... If you go through all of my questions that i may have asked you about your hulls, you would see that i am in no way trying to "RIB" you or throw you under any sort of perverbial bus! so i hope you do not think i am trying to ruffle any feathers, if you knew me, you would know i am not that way! its just that not many folks have had any experience with your hull and i potentially am opening your hulls for discussion about how your hull may differ between any of the other boats that are VERY similar to your hull design! I for one do agree that everything here on the good lords green earth stands a chance to be perfected on,... just interested in learning on how yours is different versus all of the other boats and hopefully safe! i dont think the other builders dont post in fear of being bashed or ridiculed,...i personally think that they are just busy building boats!
The builders that i know personally dont give two shits about what you or i think about their boats, bottom line is, they are selling them and that is their focus!
This is the same reason why i come on here, i have a buss. that caters to the folks that may come across a dilemma and hopefully i can offer a solution, just like you can offer a solution on how your boat may be a safer designed hull compared to the next hull, by being done in a tasteful manner you might be suprised how many followers you might pick up rather than shy away by offering a ride @ 100+mph! I for one have no desire to step into a boat with some cat that, for all i know has 3 yrs of experience in a boat and wants to take me above the century mark in a boat that may or may not be a proven hull. Once again, Pat dont take me the wrong way, i do think you have a nice product but you have to give up some info on how your boat works better than the next because you are leading up to that when you post about the wicked performance hulls, do you really expect people to take you for your word???? boat builders in the past have been notorious to be the ones that are the most "SHADY"!
If you love your product, which by the way seems that you have sunk your heart and soul into, give it up, let us know why we all should get into one of your hulls! i am trully way interested in a perfect product and how it came to be?
Bud, i for one hope you sell a shitload of boats and even more so that your customers use TRG fiberglass to repair them! (I know a tasteless whoring of ones self!)
Good luck!
Todd

[Cs19]

what makes your hull ride any different than any of the other said gull wings,... preferably scottens gullwing????
Just curious!
Todd
From what I think I saw, the Wickeds center lift strakes are about 3/8-1/2 wider on each side than a PJB boat is, which should create a significant amount of lift, the entry appeared very similar, deck is shaped different too but the aero shouldnt be all that much different. Id like to see one get tweaked on at the race track to see what kind of hardware they want and to see what the are capable of. I would be willing to bet they are capable of doing anything a cp could do, hard to say if they could do better without some data on the boat.
Budlight, -if your interetsed- please take a measurement from the side of the shoe to the edge of the strake so we can compare it to the width of a cp strake.

[TRG]

I figured there had to be something a lil different!
Chris, do you think that with the wider center strakes, it would almost be a more stable boat once it were on top of the water?

[sofa king smooth]

Bring the wicked to Blythe and lets see how it stacks up to a cp. I'm sure there will be plenty with similiar power. This would be the place to show what the wicked can or can't do.
You say it rides great and your trying different things,how come no diverter.

[Wicked Performance Boats]

Hey, CS19, You have seen our Wicked boat perform and not only that BUT, You were OFFERED to drive it and test any way you wanted.!!! You REFUSED!!! WHY??????? You had the chance to ride or drive and WE did want your opinion on our boats. We also let several peeps drive it and ride in it and they gave their opinions. ALL GREAT!!! We have always said where we are going to be and OFFER rides and peeps to drive. Well all you that have all these Questions about our hulls and don't think we are answering them correctly, Show up where we are and try for yourself. And our boat did run 100+. We will be at GRASS BEACH this weekend. We have to DELIVER OUR 1st WICKED BOAT CUSTOMERS BOAT Saturday. then we will head down to grass beach. OH YEA, WE SOLD A BOAT ALREADY!!!!!!!! WPB Julie and Pat :220v: :crossx: :220v:

[TRG]

Hey, CS19, You have seen our Wicked boat perform and not only that BUT, You were OFFERED to drive it and test any way you wanted.!!! You REFUSED!!! WHY??????? You had the chance to ride or drive and WE did want your opinion on our boats. We also let several peeps drive it and ride in it and they gave their opinions. ALL GREAT!!! We have always said where we are going to be and OFFER rides and peeps to drive. Well all you that have all these Questions about our hulls and don't think we are answering them correctly, Show up where we are and try for yourself. And our boat did run 100+. We will be at GRASS BEACH this weekend. We have to DELIVER OUR 1st WICKED BOAT CUSTOMERS BOAT Saturday. then we will head down to grass beach. OH YEA, WE SOLD A BOAT ALREADY!!!!!!!! WPB Julie and Pat :220v: :crossx: :220v:
Congrats on your first boat sold Pat!
I know your boat runs "a buck" a buddy had seen you pull out on his 28 Daytona a few weeks ago South of Laughlin a few weeks ago!
He said it was definitly on the "PLATE"!
Todd

[Wicked Performance Boats]

Hey Toddnjuzz, you made a comment about 100+ rides, WELL, WE do go 100+ and we did let peep ride in a 100+ WICKED GULLWING, and Shawn drove it 100+ and also rode in it lots of times and Tim, Ducky,Holorinhal,Bobbi,Big kahunaa,Cole78,Stephanie,Marysuzann,Rivertard,Ryan ,Dodgeball,Waterwitch, and more. Also the guy that just got the White CP. They all said that "This is the best riding boat that they have been in" They even posted it on these threads. And as far as Other Boats Builders are busy building boats, Well What do ya think we are doing!!!! We work full time jobs and do boats after. AND TODD, HOW DARE YOU CALL ME A CAT!!!! With only 3yrs experience. Buddy I can Out drive you anyday!!!! I have been in the racing world for 35YRS> I started on Horses then Motorcycles Then Sandrails, Then 4x4 Off-Road racing,(I have lots of trophy and ribbons)and NOW BOATS. And alot that have rode with me have said I drive better than most of you guys out there. I have even had peeps ride with me that don't like riding in FAST Boats, Now they want one!!!! That has got to say something!!! Yes we are proud of our Hulls, and by all rights WE SHOULD BE!!!!! WPB JULIE :220v: :crossx: :220v:

[sofa king smooth]

100+ gps, radar? Still think blythe Labor Day would be the best spot to take your boat. Show up and silence the critics.

[djdtpr]

I like the way my daytona rides, not a single complaint, im convinced it handles the river chop as good if not better than other 18-19 hotrods but there isnt much room
Why would it handle better than any other 18 or 19 especially a cheyanne or stealth i thought they were pretty much the same but different?What makes the daytona ride better is there that much difference in the bottoms?

[djdtpr]

bluewonder, how much better are the tprs than daytonas or cheyannes when it comes to handling? It sounds like you have it all figured out but last i checked they are all very similar.
:rolleyes:
I think he has it close to figured out and hes owned a little 16 foot texas tunnel also so hes been around a little bit.
P.S. Im pretty sure you know what the boat next to him runs so you get the idea.
http://www2.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16852&stc=1

[Wicked Performance Boats]

I for one have no desire to step into a boat with some cat that, for all i know has 3 yrs of experience in a boat and wants to take me above the century mark in a boat that may or may not be a proven hull. Todd, Are you calling my wife a "Cat with 3years experience"? BL

[DK18]

100+ gps, radar? Still think blythe Labor Day would be the best spot to take your boat. Show up and silence the critics.
SOFA.... Good call... Wont be like the last time we hung out at Aha! I think we should get all the gullwings lined up and check um out. I too would like to see a Wicked up close. The sh$t talk could reach a record high!

[moneysucker]

BL, I wish you could have made it down for the Power tour in Yuma but I do understand having a business to run, that and who knew the turn out would have been as good as it was for the first one at that location. It should be a pretty regular event so I do look forward to ssing your boats at the track as well as at a few events. (I know, I have to go to more than 1 event to see other people but I am trying. lol) A few have seen the chubacraba aka the myth of the Money $ucker last week. See, I really do have a boat. If it ran fast I could say a little more. We will see where it goes at bayfair once it is looked at. Shhhhhh! :rolleyes:

[BIGAMIST]

I have boxing gloves :rolleyes: :p

[Bense468]

Todd, Are you calling my wife a "Cat with 3years experience"? BL
LOL...TODD YOU GOT SOME SPLANING TO DO. THIS CAT DON'T JiVE

[1968Droptop]

Well it looks as though I've unintensionally stired the pot. BL, I really appreceite the offer. But honestly I have nothing to compare it to, besides my modified flatty (or at least that's what I think I have...who the hell knows???) and a 5 minute ride in a 21` Blown Daytona. That's the reason for this post, peeps opinions. I understand that everyone has an opinion, and I'm interested in all of them to help me formulate an idea of what I want. I've got so little boating experince, let alone a jet boat that's capable of triple digit speeds, that I'm not even sure what feels somewhat safe, and what is scary as shit ! I know my hull is doing 74-74 witha hand held GPS, not bad for a very mildly built 460. I've been told my hull is capable of 100, but it sure doesn't like much chop, nor does my BACK :skull:
I've already learned that a TT may not be the boat for me. It sounds as though a 19' Daytona, Cheyenne, and possible a Youngblood are are very similar. I was looking at a pix of a Nordick in last months ***boat mag, and it looked similar to the Daytona from the front, not really sure. It does indeed sound as though all of these boats are capable of 100 MPH (which is my goal) "safely", and with a decent ride.

[FryJet]

Todd, Are you calling my wife a "Cat with 3years experience"? BL
Oh come on BL, "some cat" just jive talk for "some guy". Here is a lesson in jive talk and its meanings...lol.
Jivetalk #1: Sheeeet, man, that honkey mus' be messin' my old lady got to be runnin' col' upsihd down his head!
Whitetalk...Golly, that white fellow should stay away from my wife or I will punch him.
Jivetalk #2: Hey Holm, I can dig it! You know he ain't gonna lay no mo' big rap upon you man!
Whitetalk... Yes, he is wrong for doing that.
Jivetalk #3: I say hey sky, s'other say I won say I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol.
Whitetalk... I knew a man in a similar predicament, and he ended up being sorry.
Jivetalk #4: Knock yourself a pro slick. Gray matter back got perform' us' down I take TCBin, man'.
Whitetalk... Don't be naive Arthur. Each of us faces a clear moral choice.
Jivetalk #5: You know wha' they say: See a broad to get that bodiac lay'er down an' smack 'em jack 'em.
Whitetalk... Early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise.
Together Jive: Col' got to be! Yo! How true!
Together White: $hit! Golly!
Hope it helps............. :rollside:
F.J.

[DK18]

Oh come on BL, "some cat" just jive talk for "some guy". Here is a lesson in jive talk and its meanings...lol.
Jivetalk #1: Sheeeet, man, that honkey mus' be messin' my old lady got to be runnin' col' upsihd down his head!
Whitetalk...Golly, that white fellow should stay away from my wife or I will punch him.
Jivetalk #2: Hey Holm, I can dig it! You know he ain't gonna lay no mo' big rap upon you man!
Whitetalk... Yes, he is wrong for doing that.
Jivetalk #3: I say hey sky, s'other say I won say I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol.
Whitetalk... I knew a man in a similar predicament, and he ended up being sorry.
Jivetalk #4: Knock yourself a pro slick. Gray matter back got perform' us' down I take TCBin, man'.
Whitetalk... Don't be naive Arthur. Each of us faces a clear moral choice.
Jivetalk #5: You know wha' they say: See a broad to get that bodiac lay'er down an' smack 'em jack 'em.
Whitetalk... Early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise.
Together Jive: Col' got to be! Yo! How true!
Together White: $hit! Golly!
Hope it helps............. :rollside:
F.J.
Funny sh$t!!!!

[djdtpr]

Oh come on BL, "some cat" just jive talk for "some guy". Here is a lesson in jive talk and its meanings...lol.
Jivetalk #1: Sheeeet, man, that honkey mus' be messin' my old lady got to be runnin' col' upsihd down his head!
Whitetalk...Golly, that white fellow should stay away from my wife or I will punch him.
Jivetalk #2: Hey Holm, I can dig it! You know he ain't gonna lay no mo' big rap upon you man!
Whitetalk... Yes, he is wrong for doing that.
Jivetalk #3: I say hey sky, s'other say I won say I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol.
Whitetalk... I knew a man in a similar predicament, and he ended up being sorry.
Jivetalk #4: Knock yourself a pro slick. Gray matter back got perform' us' down I take TCBin, man'.
Whitetalk... Don't be naive Arthur. Each of us faces a clear moral choice.
Jivetalk #5: You know wha' they say: See a broad to get that bodiac lay'er down an' smack 'em jack 'em.
Whitetalk... Early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise.
Together Jive: Col' got to be! Yo! How true!
Together White: $hit! Golly!
Hope it helps............. :rollside:
F.J.
Too f#ckin funny.

[blue wonder]

I think he has it close to figured out and hes owned a little 16 foot texas tunnel also so hes been around a little bit.
P.S. Im pretty sure you know what the boat next to him runs so you get the idea.
http://www2.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16852&stc=1
hey cs-19...im not an expert by any means but i have personally driven all three models...and my opinion...whether or not it matters...is the tpr is the best hull out there...no question there are cheyene's(like coaches)..and eliminators like yours and mike millers that run outstanding...but in rough water where i am used to running the tpr handles it much better than the other two...i also know some blown alcohol daytona's that make much more horespower than i do that can't touch me...hull design????

[1968Droptop]

What is a TPR ? Are they spooky or forgiving ?

[Captain Assin' Off]

All I can say is, if you want to beat me next season, you'd better get after it :p (Gotcha!)

[moneysucker]

I can honestly say the TPR I rode in at 113 felt safer at 113 than mine at 95. Rides better in general and handles a little chop way better too.

[steelcomp]

i also know some blown alcohol daytona's that make much more horespower than i do that can't touch me...hull design????
Set-up...weight...driver with no balls...Old Daytona's with the flat keel, or newer ones?
How many variables are there?
Define "way more hp"...as in 10 more, 100 more, 500 more?
Define "can't touch me"... as in tenths in the quarter, seconds? 1 mph...10 mph?
It's all relative. Doubt it's just the hull design.
I'm pretty happy with my Bahner. Handles the rough stuff with no problem, turns very well, 100 mph is well within it's safety margin...it'll never blow over, and it has tons of room. I think the mod-v's have a definate place in this conversation. Just not a lot of them out there.

[blue wonder]

Set-up...weight...driver with no balls...Old Daytona's with the flat keel, or newer ones?
How many variables are there?
Define "way more hp"...as in 10 more, 100 more, 500 more?
Define "can't touch me"... as in tenths in the quarter, seconds? 1 mph...10 mph?
It's all relative. Doubt it's just the hull design.
I'm pretty happy with my Bahner. Handles the rough stuff with no problem, turns very well, 100 mph is well within it's safety margin...it'll never blow over, and it has tons of room. I think the mod-v's have a definate place in this conversation. Just not a lot of them out there.
well it was me driving both boats so the balls, weight, and driver were the same...the daytona has at least 300-400 more horespower than i do...and the other boat is still 4 mph slower!! and we wont even get into the et...no comparisson!!!!!!

[1968Droptop]

I can honestly say the TPR I rode in at 113 felt safer at 113 than mine at 95. Rides better in general and handles a little chop way better too.
Again I ask, what is a TPR ? Link maybe ? Pix ?

[djdtpr]

Again I ask, what is a TPR ? Link maybe ? Pix ?
The blue boat that is pictured above is a tpr stealth.Look up Tom Papp Racing he has a website you can look at.There are alot of pics of them on the thread that reads pt 2 pics look there.All the tunnels mentioned are great boats the modified v's dont ride near as good as a true tunnel ive had both.

[steelcomp]

well it was me driving both boats so the balls, weight, and driver were the same...the daytona has at least 300-400 more horespower than i do...and the other boat is still 4 mph slower!! and we wont even get into the et...no comparisson!!!!!!Right on...that makes it a pretty good comparison from a driver's standpoint, but I still say there are too many variables to say it was just due to the hull. Some will argue that the Cheyenne is the best of the pickle tunnels.

[djdtpr]

Some will argue that the Cheyenne is the best of the pickle tunnels.Thats amazing since the same guy built the cheyenne mold that built the TPR stealth mold.I think with proper setup they are all equally leathal.

[steelcomp]

modified v's dont ride near as good as a true tunnel ive had both.
If I remember, your PC was a potatoechip lightweight?? Since we're talking about ride quality, I'm assuming we're talking about somehting laid up heavy enough to run on the river. A little weight goes a long way in ride quality. Having said that, I agree that a true tunnel rides better than a mod-v, but there are other things to consider.
I still think the 19 Gullwing is the best all around recreational hot rod.

[steelcomp]

Thats amazing since the same guy built the cheyenne mold that built the TPR stealth mold.I think with proper setup they are all equally leathal.Same guy may have built the molds, but they're still different boats. You're right...with a good set-up, they all work pretty damn well. Mostly comes down to personal preference and style.

[djdtpr]

If I remember, your PC was a potatoechip lightweight?? Since we're talking about ride quality, I'm assuming we're talking about somehting laid up heavy enough to run on the river. A little weight goes a long way in ride quality. Having said that, I agree that a true tunnel rides better than a mod-v, but there are other things to consider.
I still think the 19 Gullwing is the best all around recreational hot rod.
The placecraft was actually pretty heavy it weighed allitle over 600 lbs when we tore it apart.It never took chop near as good as my new one rides and the new one only weighs 400 with an intake in it.
I have to agree though for a everyday family river boat the 19 gullwing is pretty cool but i think i still would go with a 21 tunnel,lots of room great ride and still can be made to get it on.

[atxwrangler]

Well it looks as though I've unintensionally stired the pot. BL, I really appreceite the offer. But honestly I have nothing to compare it to, besides my modified flatty (or at least that's what I think I have...who the hell knows???) and a 5 minute ride in a 21` Blown Daytona. That's the reason for this post, peeps opinions. I understand that everyone has an opinion, and I'm interested in all of them to help me formulate an idea of what I want. I've got so little boating experince, let alone a jet boat that's capable of triple digit speeds, that I'm not even sure what feels somewhat safe, and what is scary as shit ! I know my hull is doing 74-74 witha hand held GPS, not bad for a very mildly built 460. I've been told my hull is capable of 100, but it sure doesn't like much chop, nor does my BACK :skull:
I've already learned that a TT may not be the boat for me. It sounds as though a 19' Daytona, Cheyenne, and possible a Youngblood are are very similar. I was looking at a pix of a Nordick in last months ***boat mag, and it looked similar to the Daytona from the front, not really sure. It does indeed sound as though all of these boats are capable of 100 MPH (which is my goal) "safely", and with a decent ride.
i know of a guy in south carolina that was selling his 19' nordic ,like the one in ***boat for 6,500.00.i could dig up the email or number if you want,it was a nice ass boat.

[cyclone]

Same guy may have built the molds, but they're still different boats. You're right...with a good set-up, they all work pretty damn well. Mostly comes down to personal preference and style.
the "Tunnel" boats we are talking about are not true tunnels (true tunnels dont have a center pod).
But the mod-vee's like the placecraft, bahner, crusader and gullwing do not ride nearly as well in chop as a say a Daytona, Stealth, Cheyenne and yes, the Ultra Shadow (it came from a cheyenne mold as well).
the difference between the modern day Daytona (with round keel), the TPR Stealth, and the Cheyenne is very small but the resulting ride and how the boat runs is pretty different. The Daytona gets more tail lift by design and it takes a lot of attention to detail in the hardware to keep the pump loaded at high speeds in varying water conditions. Its not much of an issue at slower speeds or with a heavier layup. CS19's boat is no slouch and he can attest to what it takes to make one run hard.
Papp designed the Cheyenne and Stealth and has intimate knowledge of the Daytona. You'd have to ask him what the difference is because i'm not going to repeat what he told me here.
Bottom line though is that all three of those hull designs work great when someone that knows what they are doing sets them up. Neither hardware setup will be too simliar because of the small, subtle differences in the hull. Similar but not the same.

[djdtpr]

Very well said there Mikey i swear you should be a wrighter or something!

[cyclone]

Very well said there Mikey i swear you should be a wrighter or something!
hello mr. b. those pics of your boat look great. got one of the deck up close. i hear the coors light bottle is spot on!

[Mike D.]

The placecraft was actually pretty heavy it weighed allitle over 600 lbs when we tore it apart.It never took chop near as good as my new one rides and the new one only weighs 400 with an intake in it.
I have to agree though for a everyday family river boat the 19 gullwing is pretty cool but i think i still would go with a 21 tunnel,lots of room great ride and still can be made to get it on.
So how do these tunnels turn while driving at 20 to 40 mph, I have never driven one but have been told they are dangerous to use on the river,is this true? I have seen a few on the river but they don`t appear to be all that popular.I have a 19 gulwing and it will turn pretty sharp even under a considerable amount of speed,I was led down the same road that the 19 gulwing was the best all around hull, I wish I had driven a tunnel first because I will never be able to achieve the speeds they run. Don`t do much turning any ways

[moneysucker]

I can tell you that many of the tunnels I have been in including my SWDT have a little hop turning sharp (Making U turns). Mine is pretty apparent and I would never dream to try to flip this boat around at any decent speed. The TPR I was in did much better. Just my opinion.
Cy

[Cs19]

Why would it handle better than any other 18 or 19 especially a cheyanne or stealth i thought they were pretty much the same but different?What makes the daytona ride better is there that much difference in the bottoms?
You misunderstood my comment DJD.
It doesnt matter, thats my point and thats why I said what I said to blue wonder. I doubt there is any noticeable slow speed handling differences between a cheyanne or stealth and a daytona, the boats are all too similar to say one is so much better than the other. Im talking about cruising and river use here,obviously racing one is another story.
The only thing I dont like about some of those boats mentioned is the large reliefs in the center sponson, thats a good thing for an all out pro gasser or fueler or whatever, but is that style center sponson good for a river guy with 600-700 HP? Perhaps an insert in the mold for lower HP applications could be the answer?Thats what Eliminator did back in the day when Bennet,Grimes and Shoemaker were racing,the reliefs were different depending on what the boat was being used for.
Just my .02
Chris.

[TRG]

Hey Toddnjuzz, you made a comment about 100+ rides, WELL, WE do go 100+ and we did let peep ride in a 100+ WICKED GULLWING, and Shawn drove it 100+ and also rode in it lots of times and Tim, Ducky,Holorinhal,Bobbi,Big kahunaa,Cole78,Stephanie,Marysuzann,Rivertard,Ryan ,Dodgeball,Waterwitch, and more. Also the guy that just got the White CP. They all said that "This is the best riding boat that they have been in" They even posted it on these threads. And as far as Other Boats Builders are busy building boats, Well What do ya think we are doing!!!! We work full time jobs and do boats after. AND TODD, HOW DARE YOU CALL ME A CAT!!!! With only 3yrs experience. Buddy I can Out drive you anyday!!!! I have been in the racing world for 35YRS> I started on Horses then Motorcycles Then Sandrails, Then 4x4 Off-Road racing,(I have lots of trophy and ribbons)and NOW BOATS. And alot that have rode with me have said I drive better than most of you guys out there. I have even had peeps ride with me that don't like riding in FAST Boats, Now they want one!!!! That has got to say something!!! Yes we are proud of our Hulls, and by all rights WE SHOULD BE!!!!! WPB JULIE :220v: :crossx: :220v:
Pat/Julie!...First and foremost, i think you might want to grab a "BUDLIGHT" and re-read what i have posted, because you obviously cannot take any sort of constructive critisism!
second, the term "CAT" has been used since the 60's (If im not mistaken, your were around then!) and was never used as a derogatory statement towards your spouse! bottom line!
You obviously do not know me as if you did, you would know that i am not trying to take any sort of wind out of your sails, as i ended my post commending you on your buss. venture!...and as for the 100MPH remark, that was intended for the guy that is wanting a safe river boat and not concerned about running @ the speeds that you claim to have taken passengers (potential customers) uhmm, can you say a nasty liability?..but that is on you and your company! (none of my concern!)
Just let this be known, that i am in no way bashing you or your company, just purly asking how your hull is in any way different that any of the other man.!...you are the one that is taking my previous post in a totaly different direction!
BTW, Pat or Julie, we are all still waiting for a reply on how your hulls are superior to the other gullwings and i for one did not want this thing to turn out this way,...but had some idea that it would!
And lastly,...RELAX!
If you two would like to talk about this, please feel free to drop me a dime and i will explain further on this matter!
626-991-9031
Todd

[Cs19]

the difference between the modern day Daytona (with round keel), the TPR Stealth, and the Cheyenne is very small but the resulting ride and how the boat runs is pretty different. The Daytona gets more tail lift by design and it takes a lot of attention to detail in the hardware to keep the pump loaded at high speeds in varying water conditions. Its not much of an issue at slower speeds or with a heavier layup.
I agree with Mike here.
Thats kinda what I wanted to say but your better at putting it into words than i am.
Id still like to slowly add to the reliefs on a boat like yours to see how much it could take before it started to unload, would be a fun project/test.

[Cs19]

Hey, CS19, You have seen our Wicked boat perform and not only that BUT, You were OFFERED to drive it and test any way you wanted.!!! You REFUSED!!! WHY??????? You had the chance to ride or drive and WE did want your opinion on our boats.:
I wasnt in the mood to go for a ride, maybe another time. Maybe you read my post wrong or something, i have nothing bad to say about your boats.i only posted what I thought i saw.
chris

[Cs19]

i also know some blown alcohol daytona's that make much more horespower than i do that can't touch me...hull design????
Well your hull design isnt so superior over a daytona that it takes a few extra hundred HP in a daytona to keep up with a hull like yours. Lets be realistic.
Looking forward to see your boat at AHA. :crossx:

[TRG]

Maybe you read my post wrong or something,
chris
Ya think??

[Cs19]

The TPR I was in did much better. Just my opinion.
I can honestly say the TPR I rode in at 113 felt safer at 113 than mine at 95. Rides better in general and handles a little chop way better too
what are you waiting for? cut the check. :)

[Cs19]

we wont even get into the et...no comparisson!!!!!!
what kind of et did you turn and on what track?
thanks.
Chris

[Wicked Performance Boats]

hey,todd and CS19, You guys arn't even interested in buying one of our hulls,so, why all the bull!!!! We did not read it wrong!!!! Nasty liability??? What the Hell !!! Claim to have taken peeps 100+. What do you mean by Claim???? If you want details like inch by inch, Its not gonna happen!!! We know how to take critic, But you have hit below the belt. If you refuse to drive or ride in it, THEN you have no business asking how it handles or performs or what the differents is. You say if we knew you we would think that your not that way, Well you writing say differently.I may only have 3 yrs experience in driving a jet boat, BUT I would never endanger anyones life. Our boat is Safe and Reliable, and many many peeps have said so, SO, if you read some post in the past from riders and drivers of the Wicked Boat, Maybe your answers to how ours is different is there. And CS19, You wanted us to GIVE you one of our hulls to race,and when we said we could'nt do it, you started acting like an ass. And Don't say it not true, cuz you know it is!!!!! We wanted to work with you for racing , But we dont give Boats AWAY FREE!!! And We will be racing them ourselves. SO have a nice day!!!!! JULIE :crossx: :220v: :crossx:

[TRG]

You just dont get it! i'll say it again....RE-READ my post (first longwinded one) and if it is possible, try to see it from another angle,...other than bashing you guys wich BTW i never did!
As i said before, you have my number!

[Cs19]

hey,todd and CS19, You guys arn't even interested in buying one of our hulls,so, why all the bull!!!! We did not read it wrong!!!! Nasty liability??? What the Hell !!! Claim to have taken peeps 100+. What do you mean by Claim???? If you want details like inch by inch, Its not gonna happen!!! We know how to take critic, But you have hit below the belt. If you refuse to drive or ride in it, THEN you have no business asking how it handles or performs or what the differents is. You say if we knew you we would think that your not that way, Well you writing say differently.I may only have 3 yrs experience in driving a jet boat, BUT I would never endanger anyones life. Our boat is Safe and Reliable, and many many peeps have said so, SO, if you read some post in the past from riders and drivers of the Wicked Boat, Maybe your answers to how ours is different is there. And CS19, You wanted us to GIVE you one of our hulls to race,and when we said we could'nt do it, you started acting like an ass. And Don't say it not true, cuz you know it is!!!!! We wanted to work with you for racing , But we dont give Boats AWAY FREE!!! And We will be racing them ourselves. SO have a nice day!!!!! JULIE :crossx: :220v: :crossx:
WTF is this?
Julie you are freaking out for no reason. The only person acting like an ass here is you.
You should read each post individually before you explode on everybody.Some people may be attacking you here, I was not. I was trying to help you guys when I asked about the bottom of your boat, people want to know about them, I was trying to get people some answers, thats all I was doing, like I said in my last post directed towards you..I have nothing against your boats, if I did Id tell you.You obviously misunderstood me BIGTIME.
As far as wanting a boat, I was joking around, I cant expect you guys to give a boat away when you have only sold a few...However you guys should get involved with someone who is interested in racing that owns a strong engine and you guys could work a deal..You own the boat they own the engine and drive if capable and you go guys racing one way or another an promote your boats.. That WILL sell boats if the boat ends up working well, what your doing here on the boards wont sell boat.
Im over trying to help you guys, your attitide sucks towards this whole deal, keep your damn boat I have no intrest anymore, see you at the track, looking forward to blowing your doors off BIGTIME :mad:
Chris

[Cs19]

You just dont get it! i'll say it again....RE-READ my post (first longwinded one) and if it is possible, try to see it from another angle,...other than bashing you guys wich BTW i never did!
As i said before, you have my number!
she obviously is not reading the posts Todd, neither of us had any negative things to say.
who cares..

[78CoLe]

I thought these forums were for people helping and getting to know people I think ALL parties should drop this discusion my .02 p.s. iv ridden in a wicked cp dattona tpr lighting southwind tunnel my fav so far was the wicked but these were all in fairly good river conditions just my .02 now for racing go get a pro mod and shut up

[pattymelt18]

Well Least She Yelled At U Guys This Time.

[ERV JR]

Wow As A Second Party Readig These Posts It Seems That Wicked Is Just Going Off Half Cocked. In No Way Does It Seem Thta Anyone Was Bashing Their Product ,the Only Thing I See From Reading The Posts Are The Wicked People Saying There Boats Are Great But Not Giving Any Facts To Back Them. I Am Reading This Post Because I Am Intrested In Building A New Boat Also,but For Them To Say Take A Ride In Our Boat Isnt Going To Make Me Jump At The Deal. I Beleive What Others Are Saying Goes Like This ... Any Time U Take A Ride In A 100 Mph Boat U Are At Risk Of Something Going Wrong And The A Client Getting Hurt Would Really Hurt Ure Buss. I For One Would Not Just Want To Jump Into A Boat With Someone For A 100 Mph Pass That I Just Met Weather They Own A Boat Company Or Not ,or Have Been Driving For A Long Time,you Never Know What Could Happen Or Exactly How The Drive If Something Happens. On A Clean Pass They May Drive Great But How Does That Person React In A Second To A Boat That Hops To The Side Due To A Swell, Sorry My Life Isnt Worth Finding Out. Be It A Great Driver Or A New Driver ,i Would Still Be A Pass. @ Possible At Risk.
Just My Two Cents , On What I Read

[djdtpr]

So how do these tunnels turn while driving at 20 to 40 mph, I have never driven one but have been told they are dangerous to use on the river,is this true? I have seen a few on the river but they don`t appear to be all that popular.I have a 19 gulwing and it will turn pretty sharp even under a considerable amount of speed,I was led down the same road that the 19 gulwing was the best all around hull, I wish I had driven a tunnel first because I will never be able to achieve the speeds they run. Don`t do much turning any ways
My placecraft didnt turn at all it would unload in a turn.I have turned the new boat at speed and so far so good but i can tell you its nothing like your gullwing yours turs WAY better.
CS i didnt missunderstand you at all i was asking you a question which Mike answered perfectly for me so there was a missunderstanding but not on my end.Every since i told you i wasnt going to give you a free boat you have been an ass to me also. :rollside:

[flat broke]

hey,todd and CS19, You guys arn't even interested in buying one of our hulls,so, why all the bull!!!! We did not read it wrong!!!! Nasty liability??? What the Hell !!! Claim to have taken peeps 100+. What do you mean by Claim???? If you want details like inch by inch, Its not gonna happen!!! We know how to take critic, But you have hit below the belt. If you refuse to drive or ride in it, THEN you have no business asking how it handles or performs or what the differents is. You say if we knew you we would think that your not that way, Well you writing say differently.I may only have 3 yrs experience in driving a jet boat, BUT I would never endanger anyones life. Our boat is Safe and Reliable, and many many peeps have said so, SO, if you read some post in the past from riders and drivers of the Wicked Boat, Maybe your answers to how ours is different is there. And CS19, You wanted us to GIVE you one of our hulls to race,and when we said we could'nt do it, you started acting like an ass. And Don't say it not true, cuz you know it is!!!!! We wanted to work with you for racing , But we dont give Boats AWAY FREE!!! And We will be racing them ourselves. SO have a nice day!!!!! JULIE :crossx: :220v: :crossx:
Pat and Julie,
I have no desire to own one of your boats or a boat similar to one of your boats. I think that makes me pretty neutral in this whole deal, and after reading the whole thread and your collective contributions/advetising in other threads, I've gotta say what a whole lot of people are thinking.
First of all, congrats for finding a way to get into the boat business and hopefully becoming profitable doing something you love. Not many folks get that opportunity, so hopefully you'll tend to it with the care and discipline needed to make a go of it. As you read the rest of my post, keep the thought in your mind that most people here really do want to see you guys and your boats do well.
With that being said, you are utilizing a public forum to advertise your product at no cost to you. In the process of using this free advertising, you open yourself up to questions, comments and opinions. If you want "one way" advertising, nut up and pay for an ad in ***boat, Family and Performance, any of the drag specific publications, etc.
Over the past year, you have shown a tendency to react negatively towards ANY question about your product. This does very little in the way of building trust with potential customers. You continually harp on how your hull is superior to a Scotten gullwing, but to date have given no justification for the statement. No timeslips, no explanation on what the differences are and why they would make the hull better. Personally, I like the deck on your hulls better than a traditional CP, but I wouldn't buy one based soley upon that aspect of design.
When you speak on these boards as individuals, you're also speaking as representatives of your company, and I've got to tell, you're not doing yourselve any favors by withholding information and taking the abrasive tone you have to date. Questions about ballpark pricing are met with, "give us a call and we'll work something out". The first thing you need to know about sales is that most people HATE talking to sales people. When you get a call about your boat, you are playing the role of salesperson, whether you like it or not. With that in mind, make it easy for folks to make that call. My impression when you say, "call us" is that you either don't have a good idea of the pricing, or it varies based upon who you are. Either way, not a situation I'd personally get involved with.
Then when technical questions are asked about the hull, you hide behind excuses like, "do you think any boat builder would tell you about their hull?" Umm, yeah they would. Do yourself a favor and call a couple boat MFGs, explain that you're looking to buy a boat and need some particular information about the hull such as deadrise, number size and location of strakes, and see if they give you the info. I bet you'll find that they do. Having purchased a set of molds, you know how cheap they aren't. So do you really think that if you came out on the boards and showed the specific differences between your hull and a Scotten CP, someone would take their CP, mod the bottom to your hull's spec,then splash it? The answer is no, and for two reasons, your boat isn't a proven performer (100 in a CP isn't groundbreaking by any stretch of the imagination), and you have no hard data beyond the statement that it's been 100+ to back the claim of performance. The second reason is that it would take forever for someone to make their investment back making these boats. The ***boat market from 32'DCBs to 18'gullwings is a very small slice of the boating industry as a whole, and the 18'-19' new river rod segment is probably the smallest subset therein. No one is going to tool a brand new mold to steal your unproven secrets, so be forthcomming, respond to questions with factual answers instead of angry rhetoric, and you might start to see some more interest.
One more thing, I have to comment on the statement you guys made alluding to the fact that your hulls handle chop as well as a tunnel. Maybe your heavier layup gullwing handles chop better than other gullwings, of equal or lighter weight; but any halfway decently built Cheyene, TPR, Daytona, etc. will eat up chop much easier than a gullwing. Your rebuttal to this was for someone to "come out and ride in our boat". Then if they don't take you up on your offer, they're marked as a hater and you dispel what they have to say as true. As Todd and Chris have said, I wouldn't get into a boat capable of those speeds with someone I didn't know very well. And your 35 years of racing doesn't mean dick to me when a small segment of it was spent on the water. The very fact that you guys ran a cp tunnel on the river with little to no safety equipment shows that you're either not fully aware of the potential consequences of your actions, or simply don't care. Either way, I wouldn't climb into a "100+ mph" boat with someone who takes that approach. Not a bag on you guys, just a personal conviction that others on these boards happen to share. I don't need to ride in your variation of a gullwing to know it just plain and simple isn't going to handle chop as well as the boats mentioned above.
In closing, remember that none of this is meant as a personal attack, but rather to give you some perspective on what other people might think of how you handle yourselves and subsequently represent your product. The bottom line is that if you answer questions directly with factual information, get over yourselves in terms of thinking you're doing groundbreaking work with an 18' boat, and lay off with the personal attacks in your response to questions, you'll probably do more for your corporate image as well as your pocketbook than you would with your current methodology. Congrats on the first boat delivery, and let us know what races you plan on attending, so we can be on hand to see what the Wicked deal can do.
Chris

[FryJet]

hey,todd and CS19, You guys arn't even interested in buying one of our hulls,so, why all the bull!!!! We did not read it wrong!!!! Nasty liability??? What the Hell !!! Claim to have taken peeps 100+. What do you mean by Claim???? If you want details like inch by inch, Its not gonna happen!!! We know how to take critic, But you have hit below the belt. If you refuse to drive or ride in it, THEN you have no business asking how it handles or performs or what the differents is. You say if we knew you we would think that your not that way, Well you writing say differently.I may only have 3 yrs experience in driving a jet boat, BUT I would never endanger anyones life. Our boat is Safe and Reliable, and many many peeps have said so, SO, if you read some post in the past from riders and drivers of the Wicked Boat, Maybe your answers to how ours is different is there. And CS19, You wanted us to GIVE you one of our hulls to race,and when we said we could'nt do it, you started acting like an ass. And Don't say it not true, cuz you know it is!!!!! We wanted to work with you for racing , But we dont give Boats AWAY FREE!!! And We will be racing them ourselves. SO have a nice day!!!!! JULIE :crossx: :220v: :crossx:
Cut me som' slac' jak! Chumps don wan no help, chumps don git no help. Jive ass dudes don got no brains anyhow. I can dig it but ize hopin he ain't gonna lay no mo' big rap upon you man!
F.J.

[Johnwithjm]

hey,todd and CS19, You guys arn't even interested in buying one of our hulls,so, why all the bull!!!! We did not read it wrong!!!! Nasty liability??? What the Hell !!! Claim to have taken peeps 100+. What do you mean by Claim???? If you want details like inch by inch, Its not gonna happen!!! We know how to take critic, But you have hit below the belt. If you refuse to drive or ride in it, THEN you have no business asking how it handles or performs or what the differents is. You say if we knew you we would think that your not that way, Well you writing say differently.I may only have 3 yrs experience in driving a jet boat, BUT I would never endanger anyones life. Our boat is Safe and Reliable, and many many peeps have said so, SO, if you read some post in the past from riders and drivers of the Wicked Boat, Maybe your answers to how ours is different is there. And CS19, You wanted us to GIVE you one of our hulls to race,and when we said we could'nt do it, you started acting like an ass. And Don't say it not true, cuz you know it is!!!!! We wanted to work with you for racing , But we dont give Boats AWAY FREE!!! And We will be racing them ourselves. SO have a nice day!!!!! JULIE :crossx: :220v: :crossx:Have you ever had one of your Wicked boat loose power at high speed? Say any speed 70 to 100MPH. Does the boat turn when it looses power?

[MudPumper]

Wow As A Second Party Readig These Posts It Seems That Wicked Is Just Going Off Half Cocked. In No Way Does It Seem Thta Anyone Was Bashing Their Product ,the Only Thing I See From Reading The Posts Are The Wicked People Saying There Boats Are Great But Not Giving Any Facts To Back Them. I Am Reading This Post Because I Am Intrested In Building A New Boat Also,but For Them To Say Take A Ride In Our Boat Isnt Going To Make Me Jump At The Deal. I Beleive What Others Are Saying Goes Like This ... Any Time U Take A Ride In A 100 Mph Boat U Are At Risk Of Something Going Wrong And The A Client Getting Hurt Would Really Hurt Ure Buss. I For One Would Not Just Want To Jump Into A Boat With Someone For A 100 Mph Pass That I Just Met Weather They Own A Boat Company Or Not ,or Have Been Driving For A Long Time,you Never Know What Could Happen Or Exactly How The Drive If Something Happens. On A Clean Pass They May Drive Great But How Does That Person React In A Second To A Boat That Hops To The Side Due To A Swell, Sorry My Life Isnt Worth Finding Out. Be It A Great Driver Or A New Driver ,i Would Still Be A Pass. @ Possible At Risk.
Just My Two Cents , On What I Read
I was thinking the same thing and couldn't have said it better.
FlatBroke, excellent post. Objective, reasonable and well articulated. Wish I could write like that. :rollside:

[Bense468]

You can run a bayliner at 100 mph. Doesn't mean its going to be safe.
Has anything been done to the molds since that boat was built prior to you guys? For example has anything been done since this boat was built
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/731DSC00512.JPG

[djdtpr]

You can run a bayliner at 100 mph. Doesn't mean its going to be safe.
They said drive so i did it i dont know what a wedge here a turn here is im a driver teach me Harry!

[Bense468]

They said drive so i did it i dont know what a wedge here a turn here is im a driver teach me Harry!
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/121/202002jj2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Harry- What do you know about stock car racing?
Cole- Well... watched it on television, of course.
Harry- You've seen it on television?
Cole- ESPN. The coverage is excellent, you'd be surprised at how much you can pick up.
Harry- I'm sure I would.
I'm gonna give you an engine low to the ground... extra thick oil pan to cut the wind from underneath you. It'll give you thirty or forty more horsepower. I'm gonna give you a fuel line that'll hold an extra gallon of gas. I'm gonna shave half an inch off you and shape you like a bullet. I'll get you primed, painted and weighed, and you'll be ready to go out on that racetrack. Hear me? You're gonna be perfect.
I'm settin' you up for cool weather... but if that sun breaks, after you're out on the track, you're liable to get real loose real quick. Now I don't wanna worry you or nothin, but, Cole's not ready for that... he's changed, see, he's changed. You cannot get out of control and expect him to bring you right back. He's liable to hurt you, you're liable to hurt him, and... I couldn't handle that, so, ah, you've gotta take care of him... see... you gotta take care of him.

[pattymelt18]

Greatest movie of all time. especially when he shows nicole kidman how the draft works "And then off to victory lane". :)

[edog_103]

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/121/202002jj2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Harry- What do you know about stock car racing?
Cole- Well... watched it on television, of course.
Harry- You've seen it on television?
Cole- ESPN. The coverage is excellent, you'd be surprised at how much you can pick up.
Harry- I'm sure I would.
I'm gonna give you an engine low to the ground... extra thick oil pan to cut the wind from underneath you. It'll give you thirty or forty more horsepower. I'm gonna give you a fuel line that'll hold an extra gallon of gas. I'm gonna shave half an inch off you and shape you like a bullet. I'll get you primed, painted and weighed, and you'll be ready to go out on that racetrack. Hear me? You're gonna be perfect.
I'm settin' you up for cool weather... but if that sun breaks, after you're out on the track, you're liable to get real loose real quick. Now I don't wanna worry you or nothin, but, Cole's not ready for that... he's changed, see, he's changed. You cannot get out of control and expect him to bring you right back. He's liable to hurt you, you're liable to hurt him, and... I couldn't handle that, so, ah, you've gotta take care of him... see... you gotta take care of him.
That's some funny Sheeeeit. How many times Have you watched it?

[MikeF]

Have you ever had one of your Wicked boat loose power at high speed? Say any speed 70 to 100MPH. Does the boat turn when it looses power?
Let's see....driver on the left,........ boat goes to the right. :boxed:

[MikeF]

Flatbroke, Now I know why Em married you....you really can read minds. :) :cool:

[djdtpr]

what kind of et did you turn and on what track?
thanks.
Chris
I think his boat went in the low 7's and ran all over the place but youd have to call frank to find out exactly.
Danny

[djdtpr]

Have you ever had one of your Wicked boat loose power at high speed? Say any speed 70 to 100MPH. Does the boat turn when it looses power?
Goose pull the hatch goose i cant reach it pull it!!!!!!!!!!

[Wicked Performance Boats]

Have you ever had one of your Wicked boat loose power at high speed? Say any speed 70 to 100MPH. Does the boat turn when it looses power?
JWJ, Julie had the boat shut off at full speed in front of Grass Beach about a month ago. It stopped straight as an arrow! I was standing on the beach with some peeps from this site, drinking a Budlight and we witnessed the incident BL

[Wicked Performance Boats]

Let's see....driver on the left,........ boat goes to the right. :boxed:
WRONG! BL

[Wicked Performance Boats]

You can run a bayliner at 100 mph. Doesn't mean its going to be safe.
Has anything been done to the molds since that boat was built prior to you guys? For example has anything been done since this boat was built
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/731DSC00512.JPG
Bense468, Only cosmetic work was done to this mold. BL

[MikeF]

WRONG! BL
Apparently it goes STRAIGHT in "any and all" water conditions.
Mine has gone right when I lost throttle rather abruptly. Speaking from experience....of course. :)

[Wicked Performance Boats]

Pat and Julie,
I have no desire to own one of your boats or a boat similar to one of your boats. I think that makes me pretty neutral in this whole deal, and after reading the whole thread and your collective contributions/advetising in other threads, I've got to say what a lot of people are thinking.
First of all, congrats for finding a way to get into the boat business and hopefully becoming profitable doing something you love. Not many folks get that opportunity, so hopefully you'll tend to it with the care and discipline needed to make a go of it. As you read the rest of my post, keep the thought in your mind that most people here really do want to see you guys and your boats do well.
[QUOTE]With that being said, you are utilizing a public forum to advertise your product at no cost to you. In the process of using this free advertising, you open yourself up to questions, comments and opinions. If you want "one way" advertising, nut up and pay for an ad in ***boat, Family and Performance, any of the drag specific publications, etc.
With that being said, you are utilizing a public forum to advertise your product at no cost to you. In the process of using this free advertising, you open yourself up to questions, comments and opinions. If you want "one way" advertising, nut up and pay for an ad in ***boat, Family and Performance, any of the drag specific publications, etc. This does very little in the way of building trust with potential customers. You continually harp on how your hull is superior to a Scotten gullwing, but to date have given no justification for the statement. No timeslips, no explanation on what the differences are and why they would make the hull better. Personally, I like the deck on your hulls better than a traditional CP, but I wouldn't buy one based soley upon that aspect of design.
When you speak on these boards as individuals, you're also speaking as representatives of your company, and I've got to tell, you're not doing yourselve any favors by withholding information and taking the abrasive tone you have to date. Questions about ballpark pricing are met with, "give us a call and we'll work something out". The first thing you need to know about sales is that most people HATE talking to sales people. When you get a call about your boat, you are playing the role of salesperson, whether you like it or not. With that in mind, make it easy for folks to make that call. My impression when you say, "call us" is that you either don't have a good idea of the pricing, or it varies based upon who you are. Either way, not a situation I'd personally get involved with.
Then when technical questions are asked about the hull, you hide behind excuses like, "do you think any boat builder would tell you about their hull?" Umm, yeah they would. Do yourself a favor and call a couple boat MFGs, explain that you're looking to buy a boat and need some particular information about the hull such as deadrise, number size and location of strakes, and see if they give you the info. I bet you'll find that they do. Having purchased a set of molds, you know how cheap they aren't. So do you really think that if you came out on the boards and showed the specific differences between your hull and a Scotten CP, someone would take their CP, mod the bottom to your hull's spec,then splash it? The answer is no, and for two reasons, your boat isn't a proven performer (100 in a CP isn't groundbreaking by any stretch of the imagination), and you have no hard data beyond the statement that it's been 100+ to back the claim of performance. The second reason is that it would take forever for someone to make their investment back making these boats. The ***boat market from 32'DCBs to 18'gullwings is a very small slice of the boating industry as a whole, and the 18'-19' new river rod segment is probably the smallest subset therein. No one is going to tool a brand new mold to steal your unproven secrets, so be forthcomming, respond to questions with factual answers instead of angry rhetoric, and you might start to see some more interest.
One more thing, I have to comment on the statement you guys made alluding to the fact that your hulls handle chop as well as a tunnel. Maybe your heavier layup gullwing handles chop better than other gullwings, of equal or lighter weight; but any halfway decently built Cheyene, TPR, Daytona, etc. will eat up chop much easier than a gullwing. Your rebuttal to this was for someone to "come out and ride in our boat". Then if they don't take you up on your offer, they're marked as a hater and you dispel what they have to say as true. As Todd and Chris have said, I wouldn't get into a boat capable of those speeds with someone I didn't know very well. And your 35 years of racing doesn't mean dick to me when a small segment of it was spent on the water. The very fact that you guys ran a cp tunnel on the river with little to no safety equipment shows that you're either not fully aware of the potential consequences of your actions, or simply don't care. Either way, I wouldn't climb into a "100+ mph" boat with someone who takes that approach. Not a bag on you guys, just a personal conviction that others on these boards happen to share. I don't need to ride in your variation of a gullwing to know it just plain and simple isn't going to handle chop as well as the boats mentioned above.
In closing, remember that none of this is meant as a personal attack, but rather to give you some perspective on what other people might think of how you handle yourselves and subsequently represent your product. The bottom line is that if you answer questions directly with factual information, get over yourselves in terms of thinking you're doing groundbreaking work with an 18' boat, and lay off with the personal attacks in your response to questions, you'll probably do more for your corporate image as well as your pocketbook than you would with your current methodology. Congrats on the first boat delivery, and let us know what races you plan on attending, so we can be on hand to see what the Wicked deal can do.
Chris
I have no desire to own one of your boats or a boat similar to one of your boats. I think that makes me pretty neutral in this whole deal, Chris, just because you do not have a desire to own a boat like ours or similar. Why does that make you neutral? I've got to say what a lot of people are thinking. Where did you gain this vast amount of knowledge about what "people" are thinking.With that being said, you are utilizing a public forum to advertise your product at no cost to you. In the process of using this free advertising, you open yourself up to questions, comments and opinions. If you want "one way" advertising, nut up and pay for an ad in ***boat, Family and Performance, any of the drag specific publications, etc. So what if I'm using this "free" forum for spam. Doesn't everybody including you? Aren't all ads "one way"? Then someone contacts the ad placer and a one on one contact goes on. You say I fly off the handle when ANYBODY asks us a Question about our boat! I say BULLSHIT. I've answered many question about it. You just choose to quote a few posts where peeps have asked questions directed to get our specs or ideas that have worked in the making of this mold. Most smart business people don't give that info out. Go to KFC and ask for their detailed way of making chicken. Or Lance Armstrong for his detailed formula for winning the Tour de France. Or John Force for all the specs to build his multi -winning motors. Get my point, NOBODY gives that out.My impression when you say, "call us" is that you either don't have a good idea of the pricing, or it varies based upon who you are. Either way, not a situation I'd personally get involved with. First I say, PM us mostly[ though I take calls too.] And if you were as knowledgeable about boat buildingas you think you are. You would know that fiberglass and it's products are made from petrolilum[spelled wrong]and as the price rises hour by hour, so costs are subject change also.And anybody who has pm'ed us or called has been given a price. Either way , if your not interested in buying a boat why would you be interested in a situation that you personally don't want to get involved in?You continually harp on how your hull is superior to a Scotten gullwing, WE at Wcked Boats have NEVER said our boat is better than A CP. OR the same as one! Where did you get that crap? I would never compare directly to any other boat builders boat! Do you think I'm so stupid to as to do that? We don't want to be sued for infringment.Your rebuttal to this was for someone to "come out and ride in our boat". Then if they don't take you up on your offer, they're marked as a hater and you dispel what they have to say as true. I personally would not want to buy any boat that I had not ridden in or driven. That's like buying a car without test driving it! And that statement about labeling them a hater for not going for a ride or driving it, is nothing but BS! And I don't despel what anybody has to say. And if you are scared or overly concerned that your safety will be compromised. Then I promise if you go for a ride, I will promise to only go what speed you you feel confortable with.lay off with the personal attacks There is alot of peeps on here that throw out comments, just fishing to get a response By saying things that can be mistaken or misunderstood. You know, you've seen them. First they say something that can be misunderstood intentionally. Then sit back and wait for the response and then claim that isn't what they meant at all. And they really only wanted the best for them. Sound familar? Now is the time for you to go on here and say all you were doing was providing some constructive criticisum[wrong spelling]to help us be a better boat company. Give us a break! We're a new company trying to HELP the jetboat industry say alive. We have not come on here and bashed you . Why have you come on here and bashed us? BL

[djdtpr]

JWJ, Julie had the boat shut off at full speed in front of Grass Beach about a month ago. It stopped straight as an arrow! I was standing on the beach with some peeps from this site, drinking a Budlight and we witnessed the incident BL
Not to be a dick but what is the top speed cause ive seen a few of them go left violently and one wasnt even going 100.It was a gullwing but not one of yours or a CP.I have seen one just like your that was in the pics above run but it rode like crap and had setup problems it porposed really bad so its hard to get a comparison.

[blue wonder]

hey wicked performance...who's gullwing did you splash and what did you do that make yours so much better???

[Wicked Performance Boats]

BTW, Pat or Julie, we are all still waiting for a reply on how your hulls are superior to the other gullwings and i for one did not want this thing to turn out this way,...but had some idea that it would! Todd, Did You have this notion that it would turn out this way because maybe you knew the way you worded it it would get a response out of us? Or you going stick with your claim it's all misunderstood? By the way that phrase "CAT" hasn't been used since Doby Gillis as Maynard G. Crebbs except a few black men talking about each other about 1960. So it would be easy to think you were refering to something different than that. I have found that alot of men don't think or like a woman being involved in boatbuilding. They think it's only a mans world. My wife has put her heart and soul into this boatbuilding venture. She helps build all aspecs of our boat from motors, to rigging ,to polishing, to talking on the phone with customers and suppliers. She's as great a partner and a wife! and I see what happens. Some professional people only want to deal with a man. Hell, there's plenty of guys out on the river that are afraid to race her, because they don't want to be beat by a woman! So I say, even if you didn't mean it against her. You used a bad choice of words that were easy to be misunderstood. Only God knows if you were fishing. But I believe you owe her an apoligy. BL

[Wicked Performance Boats]

Not to be a dick but what is the top speed cause ive seen a few of them go left violently and one wasnt even going 100.It was a gullwing but not one of yours or a CP.I have seen one just like your that was in the pics above run but it rode like crap and had setup problems it porposed really bad so its hard to get a comparison.
DJD, It was going about 90 with 2 people in the boat, going across boat chop. As we all know hardware setup is everything. that's why some manufacturers refused to let anybody setup their boat. It only takes one badly setup boat to harm a good reputation. BL

[Wicked Performance Boats]

hey wicked performance...who's gullwing did you splash and what did you do that make yours so much better???
BW, Our boat hull is not "splashed" from anyone elses hull. We bought it from okiedave in Tulsa and have not changed it. This was not a splashed mold. It was made from a handbuilt plug. And as of now, We have no desire to change it. BL

[blue wonder]

BW, Our boat hull is not "splashed" from anyone elses hull. We bought it from okiedave in Tulsa and have not changed it. This was not a splashed mold. It was made from a handbuilt plug. And as of now, We have no desire to change it. BL
Well unless YOU hand built the mold then you got a mold that was splashed from someone else...and if im correct earl smith was the first to make the hull

[blue wonder]

hey wicked performance are you going to have any of your boats at aha quin??? and if so i hope you got your best running one there...you talk it to high heaven... i would like to see it...and run it

[MikeF]

But I believe you owe her an apoligy. BL
Pat/Julie!...First and foremost, i think you might want to grab a "BUDLIGHT" and re-read what i have posted, because you obviously cannot take any sort of constructive critisism!
second, the term "CAT" has been used since the 60's (If im not mistaken, your were around then!) and was never used as a derogatory statement towards your spouse! bottom line!
Todd
EXACTLY WHAT PART OF THIS DID YOU NOT UNDERSTAND!? :rolleyes:
Looks black and white to me.

[Wicked Performance Boats]

Well unless YOU hand built the mold then you got a mold that was splashed from someone else...and if im correct earl smith was the first to make the hull
BW, A mold is built by making a plug. That's a thick boat built by hand and finished perfect. Then a mold is made from it and normally the plug is destroyed because it's way to heavy and not a good performer. people that splash hulls rarely make a great mold. most are warrbly down the side. The first gullwing was made by Youngblood. Earl bought the rights to the molds from him. BL

[Wicked Performance Boats]

hey wicked performance are you going to have any of your boats at aha quin??? and if so i hope you got your best running one there...you talk it to high heaven... i would like to see it...and run it
Nope ,It's my birthday weekend and we have other plans. BL

[TRG]

Todd, Did You have this notion that it would turn out this way because maybe you knew the way you worded it it would get a response out of us? Or you going stick with your claim it's all misunderstood? By the way that phrase "CAT" hasn't been used since Doby Gillis as Maynard G. Crebbs except a few black men talking about each other about 1960. So it would be easy to think you were refering to something different than that. I have found that alot of men don't think or like a woman being involved in boatbuilding. They think it's only a mans world. My wife has put her heart and soul into this boatbuilding venture. She helps build all aspecs of our boat from motors, to rigging ,to polishing, to talking on the phone with customers and suppliers. She's as great a partner and a wife! and I see what happens. Some professional people only want to deal with a man. Hell, there's plenty of guys out on the river that are afraid to race her, because they don't want to be beat by a woman! So I say, even if you didn't mean it against her. You used a bad choice of words that were easy to be misunderstood. Only God knows if you were fishing. But I believe you owe her an apoligy. BL
Pal!...You must have fallen and smacked your head on the shart you just typed!
The day i apologise to you it will be a cold day in hell!...Only someone with the rep. as you have would think i purposly worded my posts to get into your side!
I never once insinuated that you dont know what you (OR YOUR SPOUSE!) are talking about, whether it be your hulls you are selling, or the way you drive your customers around, or any of the other comments i've made, dont you think i could have something here to lose as well being involved in this heated B.S. debate, i also get alot of work from this website, today alone i recieved more than 20 phone calls(no B.S.) about how you and your spouse are handling this worthless debate! the only reason why i initially asked you (a month or so ago) about the condition of the bottom the boat (do you remember??) is because a good friend was VERY interested in your hull, do you want to know what he told me today?....needless to say, he is no longer interested in a wicked! (also no B.S.) Sorry Pat i was almost looking forward to the commission check! LOL
Maybe the next time you come across a post that mentions you or your (and your spouse') company, you re-re-re-re proof read it before you fly off the handle at someone that might have a potential customer on the hook!
You are the one in the wrong here pal,...NOT ME!
Give up some of your "kernal sander secret bottom" recipe so you can sell some boats!
:hammerhea

[Wicked Performance Boats]

EXACTLY WHAT PART OF THIS DID YOU NOT UNDERSTAND!? :rolleyes:
Looks black and white to me.
That's your opinion. You know it not worth wasting my time and typing skills trying to make a few butthurt opinionated postwhores understand anything. I'm done with this bashing. Please 1968droptop delete this thread. Budlight

[TRG]

Julie, should be throwing apologies in a couple of directions but that is actually not necessary!
BTW, happy b-day! Please dont look too deep into this post BL!
That is what sarcasm is all about!
Todd

[MikeF]

That's your opinion. You know it not worth wasting my time and typing skills trying to make a few butthurt opinionated postwhores understand anything. I'm done with this bashing. Please 1968droptop delete this thread. Budlight
Yeah.....postwhores.
Who walked into this thread pushing the " I'll give you a deal on a wicked gullwing"........ when the guy was asking about buying a tunnel.
And my post count for the 5+ years I've been here are nowhere near the whoring around for the post count for the year and a half of yours.

[Cs19]

Every since i told you i wasnt going to give you a free boat you have been an ass to me also. :rollside:
LMAO bendejo.
:)
Hey, I asked what blueblunder's et was not frank's.

[TRG]

Getting back to the preference of a hull?... I would have to say that a TPR is the way to go for me! :crossx: CUZ MINE CAME OUT OF THE MOLD TODAY M'er F'ers! lol
Now back to your regular scheduled program.

[Bense468]

:crossx: :crossx: :crossx: :crossx: :crossx: :crossx: :crossx: :crossx:

[flat broke]

That's your opinion. You know it not worth wasting my time and typing skills trying to make a few butthurt opinionated postwhores understand anything. I'm done with this bashing. Please 1968droptop delete this thread. Budlight
So let me get this straight, a guy posts up a question, then you thow your hat/boat in the ring as the answer, then when your hand gets called, you want the guy who started the thread to pull the plug? This is exactly what I mean about using the boards for advertising as a two way street. If you spam on the boards, you have to be ready and able to endure the questions or remarks, good bad or in different.
Now since you were so kind as to answer some of my points with more supposition and innuendo, I'll try this again.
So what if I'm using this "free" forum for spam. Doesn't everybody including you? Aren't all ads "one way"? Then someone contacts the ad placer and a one on one contact goes on. You say I fly off the handle when ANYBODY asks us a Question about our boat! I say BULLSHIT. I've answered many question about it. You may have answered many questions, but you have also carefully dodged important ones that are pretty rudimentary, such as specifics on the bottom and price... but wait, you have good responses for those questions dont you...
...Most smart business people don't give that info out. Go to KFC and ask for their detailed way of making chicken. Or Lance Armstrong for his detailed formula for winning the Tour de France. Or John Force for all the specs to build his multi -winning motors. Get my point, NOBODY gives that out.
I addressed this issue directly in my first post, but in what seems to be typical Wicked Performance Boats fashion, you sidesteped the question by making an allusion to highly competitive racing environments(NHRA Funnycar, and international profesional cycling) where true research and development advances can be worth hundreds of thousands, to tens of millions of dollars. The 18-19' jetboat market is in no way near the same league, and you are EXTREMELY full of yourself and short on ROI analysis if you think anyone would actually take the information about the dimensions of your hulls and use it to doctor up an existing gullwing and then tool a mold off of it. Even in a good economy (and we're nowhere near one now and getting farther away every day) where people tend to buy more useless toys, you'd be hard pressed to make your investment back in any immediate timeframe.
Then there is the issue of why anyone would want to copy your proprietary bottom design in the first place. Asside from some internet gossip, there are no achievements in racing or performance evaluations that would support the idea that the hull is any better or worse than the rest of the gullwings on the river.
The bottom line is that the hull is nothing more than a semi V gullwing. You're comparing the thing to a proprietary recipe like 11 herbs and spices, which actually does taste different than whatever you get at Popeyes, or another fastfood chicken chain. So why all the secrecy? Are you going to make the owner of your first hull sign an affidavit that he/she will not let anyone measure the bottom of their hull, nor will they post any pictures of the bottom on the internet? Probably not, because that would be ridiculous, just like you thinking that you have some special blend of fiberglassy goodness that will make a Wicked better than a CP or Earl Smith, etc. The way you go on with this, "it's not good business" etc. etc. etc. you make it sound like your hull is the best thing to happen to jetboating since a Berk was shoved in a Tahiti.
With statements likeAnd if you were as knowledgeable about boat buildingas you think you are. You would know that fiberglass and it's products are made from petrolilum[spelled wrong]and as the price rises hour by hour, so costs are subject change also. Obviously you don't watch your commodities as close as you'd like to think. Since you've "been in the business" oil has gone up and down a fair amount. Overall, it's gone up, but that is definitely not an absolute statement when you're sampling the market by the hour as indicated in your post. But I digress as I'm sure as a learned businessman, you fully understand the difference.
I PM'd you giving you a heads up on this very issue many months back. A "ballpark" price is what many people were interested in, and you wouldn't give one. A written quote is one thing, and I understand why you would want to do that for a specific window like 30 days etc, but ballpark pricing is just that, a general idea on what a blank hull would cost. You still refuse to do it, and unfortunately, you've hurt your company in the process. Like Todd, there were 2 parties that I knew of that were toying around with the idea of doing new hulls, but because of the appearingly secret nature of your pricing, they felt like they were probably going to get a different deal than if they were a heavy hitter on the boards, and in the end they didn't pursue the issue any further.
Second, and just because I'm a prideful SOB, I'm very realistic about where I sit with regard to my knowledge of the inner workings of the performance boating industry. For you to sit where you are, making the statements you are about me, shows exactly what and who you don't know. So maybe this is the perfect time to address this little gem Where did you gain this vast amount of knowledge about what "people" are thinking. The answer is so simple it might shock you. When I talk to people about boats, I listen. I don't pound my ideas down their throat or have a side agenda of pedaling a product or service. I enjoy talking about performance boats and when I talk to other people that enjoy performance boats, they are usually on the boards. One thing leads to another and after a while you get to know a lot about where people stand, what they believe to be true, so on and so forth. If you want, you can always post a poll to get an idea of what people are thinking on certain topics. Then you too could have my super secret power.
There is alot of peeps on here that throw out comments, just fishing to get a response By saying things that can be mistaken or misunderstood. You know, you've seen them. First they say something that can be misunderstood intentionally. Then sit back and wait for the response and then claim that isn't what they meant at all. And they really only wanted the best for them. Sound familar? Now is the time for you to go on here and say all you were doing was providing some constructive criticisum[wrong spelling]to help us be a better boat company.
If you would have read and taken to heart my preface Pat and Julie,
I have no desire to own one of your boats or a boat similar to one of your boats. I think that makes me pretty neutral in this whole deal, and after reading the whole thread and your collective contributions/advetising in other threads, I've got to say what a lot of people are thinking.
First of all, congrats for finding a way to get into the boat business and hopefully becoming profitable doing something you love. Not many folks get that opportunity, so hopefully you'll tend to it with the care and discipline needed to make a go of it. As you read the rest of my post, keep the thought in your mind that most people here really do want to see you guys and your boats do well.
You would know that in essence that is my desire, to see you guys and your boats succeed. But when you incessantly keep pumping your product, take an abrasive tone (at least that's how me and a few other people read it) when questions are asked, and continue to sidestep some very fundamental questions; you simply become that little thread on the sweater than folks can't help but pull on. And the more attention you draw to the thread, the more it gets pulled until soon the sweater is looking like crap and you're wishing you wouldn't have called attention to that thread in the first place. Get where I'm going with this? I know for myself, and I have a feeling for CS, Todd and many of the others, that these responses we post aren't meant as personal attacks, but rather a sounding board trying to tell you what people are thinking. Unfortunately, your responses have helped take things down a path that simply doesn't portray your product in the best light.
I wont apologize for statements I made, because they are my opinions, and labeled as such. This board is all about sharing opinions, information and experiences. It's up to each reader to figure out what he/she wants to do with that content.
Chris

[MudPumper]

And Flatbroke hits another one out of the Park..... :rollside:

[steelcomp]

Loose lips sink....
boat building businesses.
Bud...chill, and listen to Flat Broke. Words of wisdom offered for very little...a mere swallowing of one's pride.
I'm sad to hear you going on like this. I've been reading this and following and I haven't heard anyone here say anything bad or negative about your boat, just asking questions, and not getting very good answers. Now it's all blown out of ridiculous proportion.
In a previous thread you offered some information about how the "tunnels" on your hull continue more to the back of the boat, and the entries were different. That wasn't so hard then, why now? You should elaborate on these things, not hide them like national security.
I've always liked rapping and BS'ing w/you here on the boards, and we're definitely going to have a BL one day, hopefully soon. I was at CBBB when you blew out the back of your old CP and stopped to help put it on that borrowed trailer, and that's where and when I met you. I thought you and Julie were good folks then, and still do, but I gotta tell you, I think you're going about this all wrong.
Take a breather. Step back from this for a few, and give what has been said here some careful thought.
From my experience when I had my Cobra shop, (and our car won many engineering awards, and was very different underneath from an original) I couldn't say enough about the technical differences between our car and other competitor's cars, when talking to perspective customers. Engine set-back, suspension differences, frame construction, weight and balance, and detail after detail...sometimes I wish I could have just plopped in a tape and hit "play" :rolleyes: but, it's part of the customer's buying experience, and you gotta make that the best part for the customer. I was a one man shop which means I worked 110 hrs a week, near half of which was spent on the freekin phone talking to customers. There wasn't much of an internet then, (and I think I'm glad) but if there was, you can bet I'd be on there telling anyone who wanted to know, anything I could about our car, and then inviting them to come to the shop for a test ride. By the time I had explained the differences from our car to the others, that test ride was seldom necessary.
Sell your product. Talk it up, and not with secrecy, but with details, details, details. So many details, that they (perspective customer) finally say, "OK, OK...I'm sold!"
You're not John Force, your boat's not an F1 Car, and no one really cares, except a perspective customer, who should be the most important person to you in the world (except Julie, of course). That is, if you want to sell boats. For every question asked here on the boards, there is a perspective customer waiting to hear the answer, and listening to your responses. You have to believe that, and respond accordingly.
Quit pouring vinegar on your deal, and pour some honey on it.
This comes from the heart, as one who knows about having everything you eat, sleep and drink, wrapped up in your own passionate deal.
My .02

[sdba069]

I'm not for or against anybody on this deal. But as far as the molds that OkieDave had, per my understanding, were some of the molds that came from Jimmy Johnson, aka Jet Boat Engineering. I do not know that for sure, but if the mold that Wicked has was the old JBE gullwing mold, I'm pretty sure it was a splash. I used to buy a few boats from JBE and they were pretty wavy. Sometimes we would get a nice one, sometimes not. But they could be bought cheap and sometimes price rather than quality sells boats. There again, I don't know for sure that the gullwing mold that Wicked has is that mold.

[FryJet]

LMAO bendejo.
:)
Hey, I asked what blueblunder's et was not frank's.
:rolleyes: I was thinking you hit the wrong letter on your keyboard on accident but b is nowhere around w..................hmmmmmmmm.
F.J.

[ERV JR]

Fisrt Off , What All U Guys Are Sellin Here No One Needs,this Goes To Everyone Thats A Vender. What That Means Is That Noone Needs A Boat Or Acc, Ofr Boats, But They Want Them. For This Reason Wicked Or Anyone Else Should Know That Me Or Anybody Else Does Not Need A Boat, They Want One,for This Reason U All Need To Try To Sell Your Product. State Facts About Them And Pump Up The Good Points,make A Client Feel Good About What U Are Selling And It Will Go A Long Way. U May Even Sell A Boat!!!!! Ok Wicked I Can See Why U May Be Mad About Someone Asking For A Hull For Free,but
U Are A New Company And Need Boats Out There So Why Not Sell A Hull For Just The Coast Of The Layup Inorder To Get A Boat Out There For Someone To Race. This Idea Isnt New Cole,canyon Marine
Both Did The Same For My Dad While He Was Racing And It Turned Out Very Well ,great Marketing ,there Was A Record Holding Boat That Was In The Manufactures Add,and It Helped To Sell Boats.

[Wicked Performance Boats]

I'm not for or against anybody on this deal. But as far as the molds that OkieDave had, per my understanding, were some of the molds that came from Jimmy Johnson, aka Jet Boat Engineering. I do not know that for sure, but if the mold that Wicked has was the old JBE gullwing mold, I'm pretty sure it was a splash. I used to buy a few boats from JBE and they were pretty wavy. Sometimes we would get a nice one, sometimes not. But they could be bought cheap and sometimes price rather than quality sells boats. There again, I don't know for sure that the gullwing mold that Wicked has is that mold.
It IS NOT one of those molds. If you click back on okiedave posts. he clearly talks about our hulls and the mold and how straight it is. BL

[EMCAM]

What happened to the origional thread topic????:confused: A guy asked about texas tunnels and now we have a bunch of peeps bickering and bitching:rolleyes:That isnt fair to the guy that started the origional thread.......

[edog_103]

This topic has become very interesting to me. I am "that guy" that Todd was referring to. I am still up in the air, if I want a Modified-V or a Tunnel. I like the fact that a tunnel rides bitchen, but don't care for the fact that they don't turn. I have been a V-bottom owner all my life. I think that is one reason I am partial to the Modified-V. I like the fact that they have more room and act more like a river boat not a race boat. Im not looking to do a 198 mph or anything. I am looking to put together a nice river boat that can run some where in the mid 80's, then pull the kids around on the tube.

[Wicked Performance Boats]

This has gone on long enough! None of you have helped sell our boats, IN fact ,we have sold 2 boats and the first is being delivered w/new Wicked Trailer Saturday. and the 2nd is getting ready to be layed up. We sold both boats from comments made by peeps who have ridden or driven the WICKED. and you handful of guys out there telling us how to run OUR business had NOTHING to do with it. We are not Stupid or liars. We tell the truth about how it handles and performs. You say we don't know you, Well you don't really know us either then i guess. You few people have managed to hurt us and bring out the BAD. If you don't like how we are talking on the net, well then DON't read it. And we too are getting pms and calls saying how wrong you guys are being on here. Our WICKED boats will speak for themselves. Like Jr.high school, there is always a handful of peeps giving others a hard time. Is Its jealousy???? Remember, This is a jet boat site (JUST JETS) where all peeps talk and sell boats. Now your telling us we are wrong for being on here. You want to tell us HOW and Where we should sell our boats. We do know what we are doing. We are Us and You are You, now get over it. :220v: Julie :cool: AND we will NEVER compare to another manufacturers boat!!!!!! our boat is always on the water or trailer when we are done, so, everybody has a opportunity to compare and check it out . We are not hiding anything. WPB

[djdtpr]

LMAO bendejo.
:)
Hey, I asked what blueblunder's et was not frank's.
OOPS my bad. :)
Oh by the way Wonder is spelled with a W not a B class dismissed.And to think they call me Bendejo! :)

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

What happened to the origional thread topic????:confused: A guy asked about texas tunnels and now we have a bunch of peeps bickering and bitching:rolleyes:That isnt fair to the guy that started the origional thread.......
exactly!!!!! THis shit always happens in here. Someone cuts the skin and everyone else pours salt in it. Let talk about the texas tunnel for once....
I have seen several texas tunnels run and the are very fast hulls. I would never consider one as a lakeboat. I have seen several people get pitched out. These hull have a tendancy to violently turn and hurt people. If you look at these hulls at the races they almost always have a pop off and a jetaway in them! I had a chance to buy one for $400 but passed because it was 300lbs:eek: It had injury written all over it. However, If you are an experienced driver and want to race one then have at it. But for a lake boat, I say no way jose!.
I did meet a girl that raced one and she manhandled it. but she did say that you definately have to respect that hull.....

[Wicked Performance Boats]

This topic has become very interesting to me. I am "that guy" that Todd was referring to. I am still up in the air, if I want a Modified-V or a Tunnel. I like the fact that a tunnel rides bitchen, but don't care for the fact that they don't turn. I have been a V-bottom owner all my life. I think that is one reason I am partial to the Modified-V. I like the fact that they have more room and act more like a river boat not a race boat. Im not looking to do a 198 mph or anything. I am looking to put together a nice river boat that can run some where in the mid 80's, then pull the kids around on the tube.
THAT sound like a great river boat! which is just what we built for Julie. You sound like a person who knows what he wants. But if you have any questions that i can help answer please call me at 702-204-5035 Pat

[Johnwithjm]

This has gone on long enough! None of you have helped sell our boats, IN fact ,we have sold 2 boats and the first is being delivered w/new Wicked Trailer Saturday. and the 2nd is getting ready to be layed up. We sold both boats from comments made by peeps who have ridden or driven the WICKED. and you handful of guys out there telling us how to run OUR business had NOTHING to do with it. We are not Stupid or liars. We tell the truth about how it handles and performs. You say we don't know you, Well you don't really know us either then i guess. You few people have managed to hurt us and bring out the BAD. If you don't like how we are talking on the net, well then DON't read it. And we too are getting pms and calls saying how wrong you guys are being on here. Our WICKED boats will speak for themselves. Like Jr.high school, there is always a handful of peeps giving others a hard time. Is Its jealousy???? Remember, This is a jet boat site (JUST JETS) where all peeps talk and sell boats. Now your telling us we are wrong for being on here. You want to tell us HOW and Where we should sell our boats. We do know what we are doing. We are Us and You are You, now get over it. :220v: Julie :cool: AND we will NEVER compare to another manufacturers boat!!!!!! our boat is always on the water or trailer when we are done, so, everybody has a opportunity to compare and check it out . We are not hiding anything. WPBYou guys should bring your Wicked boat down to Aha Quin over labor day because alot of these guys from the boards will be there and show them what your boat has to offer. There will be alot of boats to choose from it sounds like. If your boat is what you say it is that should shut everyone up. Should be a fun weekend

[Wicked Performance Boats]

What happened to the origional thread topic????:confused: A guy asked about texas tunnels and now we have a bunch of peeps bickering and bitching:rolleyes:That isnt fair to the guy that started the origional thread.......
You are 1000% correct BL

[Johnwithjm]

OOPS my bed. :)
Hey bendejo you gonna be by the shop anytime soon? Got the boat done yesterday :rollside:

[djdtpr]

Hey bendejo you gonna be by the shop anytime soon? Got the boat done yesterday :rollside:
Ill be there all day sat and sunday.How did it turn out?Did you get any pics?

[Johnwithjm]

Ill be there all day sat and sunday.How did it turn out?Did you get any pics?
It looks great. I have pics but I do not know how to post them.

[blue wonder]

You guys should bring your Wicked boat down to Aha Quin over labor day because alot of these guys from the boards will be there and show them what your boat has to offer. There will be alot of boats to choose from it sounds like. If your boat is what you say it is that should shut everyone up. Should be a fun weekend
thats what im talking about!!! I agree with john...bring that thing to aha quin and prove us wrong...until you can do that you cant say your boats better...like i said before bring your best running one...I WANT A PIECE OF IT!!!!!!!!

[Wicked Performance Boats]

Nope ,It's my birthday weekend and we have other plans. BL
What part of this are you having a hard time understanding!!!!!

[blue wonder]

What part of this are you having a hard time understanding!!!!!
well then some other time!!!!!...ill be waiting anxiously

[Wicked Performance Boats]

well then some other time!!!!!...ill be waiting anxiously
Cool

[OkieDave]

Just for the record, the mold I sold to Pat did not come from JJ nor did I build it. I got it form a guy in Havasu when I lived there in the late 80's named Ray who was building K and SK boats. It originated in Cal and is a very straight, true, shiny, steel reinforced professionally built mold. I owned it for 15 years and built one boat from it. the boat runs well, stops straight at least from 100 or so. this thread is a good example of why I rarly post on here. too much mis-information and drama.

[Bense468]

It looks great. I have pics but I do not know how to post them.
John i can post something for ya. Email me at Bense468@gmail.com

[sdba069]

Hey Wicked and OkieDave........ I am not the enemy, actually, it doesn't matter to me one way or the other as I know absolutely nothing about those boats, not that I would mind getting some info and pricing on them. What builders that are left in this part of the world have about priced new hulls so far out of reach that it's ridiculous. Anyway, I was just passing on what I had heard from a couple of boat builders about that mold, that's all. As I mentioned before, I didn't know that for fact. You guys from Wicked, send me some info on your boats, I don't mind taking a look. Hey Dave.......... are you and Ron going to make Plowman's this year ????? How's that for changing the subject. Just FYI....... I've been talking to the guy that started this topic and he's over the Texas Tunnel deal so, end of story.

[1968Droptop]

exactly............Let talk about the texas tunnel for once....
I have seen several texas tunnels run and the are very fast hulls. I would never consider one as a lakeboat. I have seen several people get pitched out. These hull have a tendancy to violently turn and hurt people. If you look at these hulls at the races they almost always have a pop off and a jetaway in them! I had a chance to buy one for $400 but passed because it was 300lbs:eek: It had injury written all over it. However, If you are an experienced driver and want to race one then have at it. But for a lake boat, I say no way jose!.
I did meet a girl that raced one and she manhandled it. but she did say that you definately have to respect that hull.....
Thanks for the reply 396, that seems to be the gerneral perception, injury just waiting to happen. NO WAY do I want one of those for what I intend to use it for.
I had a very LONG convo with Garry (sdba069) about a Cheyenne (thanks again Garry!!!). This boat sounds like it's more up for doing what I want outta a boat. It also sounds like there is a couple different hulls with the same name, some better than others (not trying to say anyone here has a chitty boat). My main concern about a Cheyenne is how well I can fit in it ? As I said earlier, WAY earlier, I'm 6'5", about 275 (OK OK 285 DAMN Hostess CupCakes!), but decently proportioned for a tall guy. My plan is for only 2 seats up front with a little extra leg room. In back I want to make an aluminum cooler holder/ helmet holder (so they're always in the boat)/ sub woofer encloser/ jockey box. I think I can get enough 'comfort' with this idea, but I'm not sure how deep one is on the inside ? I might start a new thread (after a bit) asking about Cheyenne's only. Hopefully it'll go smoother. I kind of regret starting a thread that got so many fired up, I was just trying to find out about Texas tunnels....
P.S. Garry, I REALLY wish it was a little lighter shade of blue, if it were, I'd BE WAY interested !!! Got you e-mail, THANK YOU !!! Got your # is programmed.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

What kind of speeds are you looking for?? I rode in a 21ft liberator and it runs 80 all daly long in good and bad water with a mild motor. It has some serious leg room and rides like a dream. I couldnt believe that it rode that smooth! I have never been in a cheyenne,stealth,or eliminator but everything I have been reading about them that past 6yrs have all been good! If your undecided then try to get a ride in all the ones that you have in mind. That way you can make the best decision that suits your needs. It really doesnt matter what this guy or that guys says or thinks. Its all about what YOU want! I can tell you that i have driven a earl smith gullwing and it hauled ass. It was a very smooth ride and handled like no other boat. The only issue was upon shutdown you will eat the dash if you had alot of shoe in it. of sourse thats common with most boats with too much shoe;) I hope you find what your looking for. Gary is a very nice guy and has alot of knowledge. I have seen him run at firebird several times. If you saw his hardware you would really understand. good luck with whatever you do;)

[1968Droptop]

What kind of speeds are you looking for??..........good luck with whatever you do;)
I want to see 100 for sure. I know it'll take some power, but lucky for me I'm a Ford guy so power is easy to make :rollside: :rollside: :rollside: . But seriously, I want the other side of trips and be able to eat up some chop w/o eating up my back. I recently rode in a Daytona, 4 peeps, full cooler, and 3/4 of 52 glns of fuel. We ran in the low to mid 90's very comfortably, even through 1.5' of chop. Needless to say "Tunnel Vision" set in :)
P.S. My marriage may not be able to withstand me visiting Garry's shop :220v:

[HotRod Sprint]

Check out this link (http://phoenixfiberglass.net/main.html) for Cheyenne hulls. If I were able to buy a new one today this would be my choice.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2750captainoval.jpg
Also one thing is for certain even if it were the best 18' in the world, I will never own a Wicked boat just because of the owners attitudes. You people need to get off the PIPE.
Rod

[1968Droptop]

Thanks man ! ! ! I'm droolin on the keyboard :cool:

[HotRod Sprint]

I'm droolin on the keyboard :cool:
Been there done that, can't stop doin it every time I look at that pic. :D
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2750captainoval.jpg
Rod

[Nucking futs]

So what did that cost ya???? ballpark ?????

[TRG]

Can someone tell me how to post pics with a mac??? have pics of my new boat and would'nt mind sharing what route i went down!
Todd "no shart talking" Griggs
Thanks

[Cs19]

This is a beautiful boat, love the colors. If I was in the market Id be looking at one of these for sure.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2750captainoval.jpg

[edog_103]

Can someone tell me how to post pics with a mac??? have pics of my new boat and would'nt mind sharing what route i went down!
Todd "no shart talking" Griggs
Thanks
Yep! It's this simple. Shit-can the mac.
I love you man...Don't get all broke back on me or anything like that.

[TRG]

Thats funny, just saw on KTLA that there is a recall on the ****ers!...something about the bat. pack catching fire!...WHATTAPILEOSHIT!
wheres my old PC? oh yeah, out in the garage, collecting dust!

[TRG]

Pluto is also no longer a planet! did you know that?

[TRG]

I think i'll rock the TPR stealth
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/662IMG_1842.jpg[/IMG]

[sdba069]

I haven't gotten past the 80 MPH mild engined 21' Liberator. I've owned one of them and worked on several, but anyway. Chris, really enjoyed the conversation. I don't imagine that changing a color or two on the Cheyenne would be a problem. I've got a Stealth here with a blown intercooled BBC. I'm changing it over to injected alky.

[Bense468]

Thats funny, just saw on KTLA that there is a recall on the ****ers!...something about the bat. pack catching fire!...WHATTAPILEOSHIT!
wheres my old PC? oh yeah, out in the garage, collecting dust!
Dell has a 4 million battery re-call too for the same reason so don't feel bad. Sucks when half my dell laptop users have batteries that will catch on fire LOL. Oh and yeah can you belive that pluto shit. Whats next...the easter bunny is not real

[edog_103]

Pluto is also no longer a planet! did you know that?
Pluto was a planet?? Dam-it. All this time I thought it was a Disney character.

[moneysucker]

WHAT!!?? No easter Bunny!!!??? :cry:

[djdtpr]

WTF first i find out that the Moneysucker is real then no pluto and then no easter bunny Screw this place its ruining my life! :yuk:

[moneysucker]

WTF first i find out that the Moneysucker is real then no pluto and then no easter bunny Screw this place its ruining my life! :yuk:
QUICK!!! Someone...Get Danny a beer!!!!! Reality is setting in!!! :220v: F-ing Bigfoot, Chubacabra!!!!!

[djdtpr]

I was reading somewhere that BEER realy does bring joy and happyness to peoples lives.So take that all you no drinking goody two shoes.

[TRG]

Got any literature?....PINKIE???

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

For the record todd, Macs SUCK :crossx: :yuk: :yuk:

[TRG]

Well my MAC cant suck that bad,..it get's me on here to see posts like yours, BTW, thanks for the "UPLIFTING" comment, now im gonna go beat the "SNOT" out of my wife for buying this POS!
P.S. at least i can look at free porn and wont get a virus like most of you! :yuk:

[Bottle Fed]

Well my MAC cant suck that bad,..it get's me on here to see posts like yours, BTW, thanks for the "UPLIFTING" comment, now im gonna go beat the "SNOT" out of my wife for buying this POS!
P.S. at least i can look at free porn and wont get a virus like most of you! :yuk:
thats very true todd

[Bense468]

P.S. at least i can look at free porn and wont get a virus like most of you! :yuk:
NOTHING A BOTTLE OF STOLIE WON'T TAKE OUT

[TRG]

Jeff, im protected!....by saran wrap that is! AKA Dental dam!

[djdtpr]

NOTHING A BOTTLE OF STOLIE WON'T TAKE OUT
How can anyone take advise from you a guy that dont even go to the river anymore!
Your Gay. :crossx:

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Well my MAC cant suck that bad,..it get's me on here to see posts like yours, BTW, thanks for the "UPLIFTING" comment, now im gonna go beat the "SNOT" out of my wife for buying this POS!
P.S. at least i can look at free porn and wont get a virus like most of you! :yuk:
Now I know where my password went to milfhunter:D You know Im just pullin' ya leg sucka;) They have some clean ass lookin' comps but I just dont care for the layout of the programs. The only huge plus is the viruses cant get you like the rest of up MS users:cry:

[Bense468]

How can anyone take advise from you a guy that dont even go to the river anymore!
Your Gay. :crossx:
Homie I was in parker 2 weekends ago. I'm not part of the cool crowd anymore I guess. :rolleyes:

[djdtpr]

. I'm not part of the cool crowd anymore I guess. :rolleyes:
You sound like you need a hug!
Or a kick in the d*ck! :)