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axkiker
08-24-2006, 04:27 AM
Ok my question is concerning states that do not require a title for boats. If you were to take a boat and say transfer this boat to a non title state in the name of someone you knew in this state. Could you then transfer this boat back to your name in your home state. At that time there would technically not be a title so you would have to apply for a new one. Now here is where the sketchy part comes in. Once you go to transfer back to your home state you could really tell them it was whatever year you wanted. I know when I register a boat in ky all I do is give them hull and engine numbers and im good to go. Then you would have a boat titled with whatever year you wanted. Now im not condoning this at all. I recently began thinking about it when some people were telling me about guys who buy flood damaged cars out of state and bring them to ky to sell without a rebuilt title because of just such practices. When buying cars I always use carfax. This tells if its been wrecked etc and will verify the year based on VIN. However I dont know of such a site for boats. I guess you can call the mfg with hull number but honestly I never have and doubt many people do either. Ya never know I could have bought a 1995 boat advertised as a 2000. Anyways what do you all think.

Boatcop
08-24-2006, 04:58 AM
The Hull ID Number contains the model year of the boat.
Claiming it's a different year would send up a bunch of red flags.

Wild Horses
08-24-2006, 05:55 AM
In Utah when you bring a boat in from out of state you have to have the HIN# certified by a policeman or the DMV. And as stated by boatcop the year is in the HIN#.

Cheap Thrills
08-24-2006, 06:05 AM
Back years ago I had an old 12' row boat that I bought at a yard sale. There was no telling how old it was when I got it.It never had a title and since it was not powered it didn't need registration here in NC. I put a 40 horse Johnson ,built a steering column for it threw in some seats and had a shitload of fun with it untill I got a ticket for not having a reg. the officer told me what to do about getting it registered.
So all I had to do was register it as a homebuilt. the paperwork reflected the year I had gotten the ticket and not the production year of the old row boat. So I guess you can get by with changing the year of a boat under certian circumstances. However I wouldn't suggest knocking off the HIN plate and trying that with a non titled / lost titled boat.
C.T. :wink:

Ike
08-24-2006, 08:32 AM
Good advice from all of you. I spent many years working with state registration offices and state water cops on this very issue. They are really antsy about this because of the number of boats that are stolen each year and the amount of insurance fraud that goes on. So, if you want your boat impounded go ahead but it's not a good idea to try it. You could be charged with fraud, making false statements etc. As you say, many states now require a title (I think the last count was 29). On new boats they all now require a Certificate of Origin, also known as a Builders Certificate.
Yes in many states you can fool the registration people but this is getting to be fewer and fewer states. Plus that if you make a mistake on an HIN or some other item the computer will red flag it instantly. So it's better not to fool around.
By the way It's a Federal Offense to alter or remove an HIN as well as being illegal in all 50 states.
There are quite a few boat dealers who have found this out the hard way. They have left over inventory from the last year so they just make the boat a new boat again. Not a good idea. Manufacturers are required to keep a list of whoever they sell their boats to and the easiest way to do this is keep a cross referenced list of HINs' All a cop has to do is get the list from the manufacturer. I have done this many times.
Although there is now no central database of HINs, within the next ten years or so there will be. It's something the Coast Guard has been working with the states on for at least 10 years and it's getting closer. Then if you get stopped for a boarding the water cop will be able to look up the history on your boat just like they do for cars now.
Of course crooks and dishonest people won't care, but with the rest of us we have families and homes etc and it just isn't worth it for some petty thing like changing the model year on a boat.

fujimo
08-24-2006, 08:45 AM
what year did they start putting numbers on the boat? i have the paperwork but can't find any numbers on the hull.

DelawareDave
08-24-2006, 09:08 AM
Title States (http://www.easternmarine.com/em%5Fshowroom/licenses/title_states.html)

Boatcop
08-24-2006, 11:21 AM
what year did they start putting numbers on the boat? i have the paperwork but can't find any numbers on the hull.
They were required under the Federal Boat Safety Act of 1971. Supposed to apply to all boats 1972 and newer, but very few manufacturers got a handle on it until 1973.

Riverjet502
08-24-2006, 11:52 AM
This is interesting reading.... My question now is..... What about a boat made in the late 80's that left the manufacture with no HIN #'s stamped on the starboard side of the stern. Or anywhere for that matter?? The boat is titled and current in registration. So who is liable here the owner or manufacture for not displaying the HIN #'s???

Ike
08-24-2006, 04:49 PM
An HIN is a manufacturer requirement. However, lack of one can cause the owner all kinds of grief. What you need to do is simply explain what has happened to the office that registers boats. They will check it out and make sure you're not just pulling a scam. They may even have a LE officer look at the boat. Then they will issue you a state HIN which you will be required to put on the transom of the boat and somewhere else in a concealed location.
Do it. Eventually someone wearing a badge is going to ask you a lot of embarrassing questions about this if you don't. Then they just might impound your boat.
This happens occasionally especially with boats built in the 70's, and with manufacturers that have gone out of business. Also sometimes when doing new paint, repairs or gelcoat work on a hull, the HIN gets ground out.
There may be an HIN on the boat in another location than on the transom. After 1984 manufacturers were required to put the HIN in two places. The problem is the second number is concealed and only the builder knows where it is, but a good boat theft investigator could probably find it if it is there.
If you want more info on this call Rick Gipe at Coast Guard HQ. His number is 202-267-0985 or e-mail at David.R.Gipe@uscg.mil. Ask him who the boating Law Adminsitrator is in your state. Or you can look it up at http://www.nasbla.org/ This is the person responsible for enforcing all boating laws in your state. He/she can help you get this taken care of.

Boatcop
08-24-2006, 05:09 PM
What he said.
Also, there is a move on to create a database of confidential HIN locations, accessible by LE only.
The manufacturer has the location in their warranty files, but are NOT supposed to tell the general public their location(s). (for obvious reasons)
We are also trying to enact a 17 digit HIN, with check numbers, and other information (hull material, propulsion, etc) encoded in the numbers.
HINs were originally intended for defect notification and tracking purposes, with little thought to vessel identification and stolen boat recovery. The manufacturers are opposed the 17 digit HIN, for some reason. It wouldn't create any measurable additional cost to put 17 numbers instead of 12.
In the meantime we just do the best we can with what we have.
Like Ike said, drag the boat down to your local boat-cop and have them inspect for the hidden number. They can contact the builder and find out the location of the confidential HIN. Even if the company is out of business, we have ways to track down the company owner, or other person from the firm, to tell us where they put it.

Riverjet502
08-25-2006, 09:25 AM
Thanks guys for the info.....Will have to do some inquiring now.....#'s are on the title and registration just not stamped on the hull.......Builder is out of business and hull hasn't been reworked... Go figure.....

Desert Rat
08-25-2006, 10:44 AM
Thanks guys for the info.....Will have to do some inquiring now.....#'s are on the title and registration just not stamped on the hull.......Builder is out of business and hull hasn't been reworked... Go figure.....
Has there ever been damage to the transon and maybe the repair was done over the #'s? I had the upholstry out of mine for some floor repair and found the 2nd set of #'s, they were on the top half of the boat on the under side by the driver seat (ride side drive). I was damn glad the matched the #'s on the back :D

Riverjet502
08-25-2006, 11:30 AM
Back in the mid 90's I personally called the manufacture and spoke with a fellow who remembered the boat I was speaking of. He told me that they never stamped a HIN on the transom period. I asked Why? He didn't know. Like I said it never came with one to begin with.

Ike
08-25-2006, 04:38 PM
Geez, I wish you had said the HIN was on the title and Reg way back at the beginning. I could have saved you a lot of time and effort. Believe it or not you have to have the Coast Guard's permission to put the number back on the hull. Over the years I must have written a thousand of those letters.
Call Rick Gipe at 202-267-0985 or e-mail him at David.R.Gipe@comdt.mil
His address is:
Commandant G-PCB-3
U. S. Coast Guard
2100 Second St SW Room 3100
Washington DC 20593.
He will send you a letter saying Yes, go ahead, etc. You will have to keep the letter with the boats other papers in case anyone ever questions it.