Water Past the Head Bolts

[disco_charger]

I've reached my wits end with this little motor. On my 454 (.30 over 4-71 blower, 990 heads, single carb) I noticed I had water in my oil and shut it down. Tore it down, head and intake gaskets looked good. Some of the head studs were kind of loose. I took the motor apart and off to the machine shop it went. Got it back, reassembled with good MLS head gaskets, and it's pushing water through the bolts again. I used the Permatex stuff all over the threads. I tore the heads off again and replaced the Milodon studs with Milodon head botls. Same problem. What things should I be looking at here. I have a pressure regulator, set at 15lbs. But the times after the rebuild when it did it, it was hooked to the garden hose at my house. Any thoughts?

[roostwear]

Permatex liquid Teflon sealant. It's anaerobic, and seals great.

[disco_charger]

I've reached my wits end with this little motor. On my 454 (.30 over 4-71 blower, 990 heads, single carb) I noticed I had water in my oil and shut it down. Tore it down, head and intake gaskets looked good. Some of the head studs were kind of loose. I took the motor apart and off to the machine shop it went. Got it back, reassembled with good MLS head gaskets, and it's pushing water through the bolts again. I used the Permatex stuff all over the threads. I tore the heads off again and replaced the Milodon studs with Milodon head botls. Same problem. What things should I be looking at here. I have a pressure regulator, set at 15lbs. But the times after the rebuild when it did it, it was hooked to the garden hose at my house. Any thoughts?
That's why I'm confused

[cstraub]

What year block, or is it a 4, 5, or 6 Generation. Reason I ask the Gen 6 head bolt holes are blind tapped and not into water but what I have seen done is people will use Gen 4 studs and bolts on a Gen 6 and run these down in the holes, bottom them out and then when they are torqued the block cracks in the bolt hole. Won't hold torque and will leak after this is done.

[disco_charger]

The block is a Gen 4.

[cfm]

What is your water psi as checked in the block ? If okay I'd ask your engine builder about using loc-tite with your head studs. I know some people use this with studs, not bolts of course.

[Moneypitt]

Just common ol down the road silicone has always worked for me. Maybe the red high heat stuff, but I think the silicone is more pliable, gets into the imperfections better than the permatex. If you really want to seal it, and lock the studs in forever use Permatex #1, dries like concrete, Just kidding, don't do it..........Silicone on the threads should fix it. ........MP

[blowngas]

I have a pressure regulator, set at 15lbs
sounds like this setup is in a jet----are you sure the regulator is holding 15 lbs??-----then, is the water dump out the back big enough??----back the pressure down a little and see if the engine temp will take it----don't need a lot of pressure with 80 deg. lake water-----just make sure dump lines are open and large enough

[MikeF]

How much water in the oil after how much run time?
Having a hard time believing that "alot" of water will make it past the bolts/studs/washers/90# of torque....and into the oil. :boxed:

[502 JET]

I have never heard of any BBC having water leak out the head bolts as long some kind of sealer is used.
Have you seen the water coming out of the bolts?
I have used Aviation and Indian Head sealer on head bolts and never had a problem.
How much water are you talking about in the oil?
What exhaust system are you running?
How is your water system plumbed?

[Oldsquirt]

..... I used the Permatex stuff all over the threads.......
Specifically, which Permatex product did you use?

[disco_charger]

The liquid teflon stuff. I saw the stuff bubble out of the bolt up by #1 that's at the front of the head, outside of the valve cover.

[disco_charger]

How much water in the oil after how much run time?
Having a hard time believing that "alot" of water will make it past the bolts/studs/washers/90# of torque....and into the oil. :boxed:
Not a ton of water, but enough to milkshake it.

[MikeF]

Not a ton of water, but enough to milkshake it.
Does it have logs or water inj headers (can't remember right now)?
I know these questions sound a little simple.....but they all help.

[disco_charger]

Logs.

[MikeF]

Logs.
OK,
So there is no way it could be getting water from the logs as the water is present only at the top of the riser.
I know alot of people say "it's leaking from the head gasket"....but usually it's not.
The only real chance for water to get in the oil (in copious amounts), is through the water passages on the intake manifold (either the front or the back).
There is another way and that is some type of crack in the block where water could get into the crankcase. Or possibly a head is cracked and water is getting in there. Sometimes valve guides are directly exposed to water. Again, this is just a possibility.
Water is gonna have a hard time bleeding through the threads on a bolt (I'm not saying it does not happen, just that it is hard). If you've taken an exhaust manifold/pipe off a car before you know you have to drown it in Liquidwrench to be able to break it loose and you know how long it takes to seep into the threads.
Make sure the manifold is parallel to the head surface and put enough sealant on the passages to keep a leak from occurring.
:boxed:

[GofastRacer]

Just about anything will seal studs or head bolts!. But here's a little tid bit I went thru, if you use ARP studs and follow the instructions they give you'll have a milkshake for sure, they specify "hand" tight only I have never done that ever but I figured I'd follow instructions, well the heads came off three times in one day three different sealers(ARP Teflon, Silicone, #2 Permatex) and still a milkshake!. So I went back to my normal way, hand tight plus a "slight" tweak to tighten up the threads and wala no more milkshake!.. :)

[502 JET]

The liquid teflon stuff. I saw the stuff bubble out of the bolt up by #1 that's at the front of the head, outside of the valve cover.
Did you see water bubling or just the teflon?
When you had the engine at the shop did you have it magnafluxed for cracks and pressure tested?
If you did not tear the engine apart yet:Adapt a coolant system pressure tester or regulate your air compressor down to 15 psi and connect into the water passages.Bolck off water inlets and outlets,fill the block up with water up to the thermostat housing and block off.Pull valve covers and pressurize the system try to find the leak find the leak.

[Morg]

In the past to find a leak I have pressurised the block with 15 psi. Then listen for the leak. Drain the block, get a pressure guage & a valve. Don't over pressurize. Listen for the leak.

[MikeF]

The liquid teflon stuff. I saw the stuff bubble out of the bolt up by #1 that's at the front of the head, outside of the valve cover.
Kinda went past this post. :p

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Thx for the info GFR. I am planning a set of ARP head studs in my Mk-IV this winter. Glad to hear how to avoid the problem I would likely have had. When I am in new territory, I tend to follow directions religiously.

[Oldsquirt]

If you did not tear the engine apart yet:Adapt a coolant system pressure tester or regulate your air compressor down to 15 psi and connect into the water passages.Bolck off water inlets and outlets,fill the block up with water up to the thermostat housing and block off.Pull valve covers and pressurize the system try to find the leak find the leak.
Exactly. You can just remove the radiator adapter from the pressure tester, leaving an 1/8"NPT(I think) fitting that is easily adapted to the coolant outlet or a fitting in the manifold crossover. Works even better if the engine is on a stand with the oil pan off as well.

[GofastRacer]

Thx for the info GFR. I am planning a set of ARP head studs in my Mk-IV this winter. Glad to hear how to avoid the problem I would likely have had. When I am in new territory, I tend to follow directions religiously.
You're welcome, btw I used the liquid Teflon they give you and it works, just give them a tweak!..

[Moneypitt]

You're welcome, btw I used the liquid Teflon they give you and it works, just give them a tweak!..
Yeah, hand tighten only, so I guess the "now, new ones" have the allen hex in them just for removal?....Yeah, right........Although, with nice clean threads in the block, the "tweek" is barely 1/8th turn.......MP

[GofastRacer]

Yeah, hand tighten only, so I guess the "now, new ones" have the allen hex in them just for removal?....Yeah, right........Although, with nice clean threads in the block, the "tweek" is barely 1/8th turn.......MP
Hmm didn't know they put an allen deal in them, I used two nuts and yes "barely" an 1/8th turn not even that much really!..

[hellman2u]

Water up the head studs is a very common problem, I've seen it numerous times. I use grey loctite bolt prep, work it into the threads in the block and the studs. Install studs in normal manner then torque down. You might make sure your bypass can flow enough water to keep from backing up pressure in the block. Like everybody said check intake seal also. Jets love to create this problem. Good luck.