The writing's on the wall: RE bubble burst

[Tom Slick]

Pretty good article on the RE housing bubble:
Face it: The housing bust is here
Missed in last week's 'Fed is done' euphoria was more stark evidence the housing bubble has burst. Growing numbers of homeowners can't make their payments.
By Bill Fleckenstein
Back on June 12, 2005, Time Magazine chose this headline for its cover: "Home $weet Home: Why We're Going Gaga Over Real Estate." I did not share the euphoria, as I believed that the housing bubble was about to peak.
In fact, in my column two months later -- the headline of which, "It's RIP for the housing boom," stood in stark contrast -- I said that Time's cover would be shown in retrospect as basically having marked the peak. That real-time view little more than a year ago has been validated, regrettably.
The fabled engine of our economy is clearly unwinding. The sobering implications, however, were lost on the stock market last Tuesday. That's when a weaker-than-expected PPI number incited the umpteenth Fed-is-done rally. What folks ignored that day: News from the National Association of Homebuilders that its Housing Confidence Index fell to the lowest level since early 1991.
When 'adjustable' becomes unsustainable
But the bigger picture is becoming increasingly harder to ignore. What we'll soon be seeing on a regular basis was portrayed by The Wall Street Journal last week, in a story titled "Homeowners Start to Feel the Pain of Rising Rates" (subscription required). The subtitle nicely summarizes the thrust of it: "Payments on Adjustable Loans Hit Overstretched Borrowers; 'Budgets Are Out of Whack.'"
It begins with the story of a Detroit accountant who was looking to lower her monthly payments. In 2004, she refinanced a $312,000 mortgage via an option-adjustable-rate mortgage that offered various payment choices, as do so many of these plans. Her (introductory) rate of 2.3% is now up to 8.75%, and her loan balance has grown to $324,000. She claims that the terms weren't clearly spelled out. But if she actually read the documentation, as accountants often do, and didn't get it, you can imagine how many people truly understand their mortgages. (Hint: The number rhymes with "hero.")
Since she's unable to refinance (in part, due to a nasty prepayment penalty), she must sell her house. The problem: Because everyone else is pretty much in the same boat and Detroit's economy isn't so swell, she can't -- even with having reduced her original asking price of $470,000 to $270,000. (Note: That would leave her $54,000 in the hole.)
To share some numerical dimensions of the problem: People who have ARMs are "all of a sudden finding their budgets out of whack because their house payments went up 25% or 30%," according to a Pasadena bankruptcy attorney whose comment serves as the Journal story's subtitle. According to Credit Suisse: "The portion of adjustable-rate mortgages that were at least 90 days past due has climbed 140% this year. And, according to a UBS study: About $137.5 billion face resets this year and about $524 billion face resets over the next four years."
Aftertaste of an open spigot
The story states the problem precisely: "Yet, the downside of the lending boom (my emphasis) is starting to show." And that is what it has been: a lending boom.
As I have been saying: Although the abdication of responsibility in lending showed up in housing prices, this mania, at its heart, has been a lending mania. (If we'd had a bull market in houses that produced stupid prices -- but we didn't have folks buying homes they patently couldn't afford -- it wouldn't have to end in the absolute debacle we are headed toward.)
Ghosts of Volckers past
It's a topic at the heart of another Wall Street Journal piece last week: "How the Fed Lost Its Groove" (subscription required) by economist Henry Kaufman. He notes the explosion of liquidity and debt that has occurred in the last handful of years (though it's been going on longer than that.) Though the federal funds rate has risen from 1% to 5.25%, he points out, this hasn't slowed down a debt expansion or credit availability: "Non-financial debt in the U.S. expanded at a rate of 6% in 2001, grew by 10% in 2005, and has been swelling at an even faster rate this year. At this pace, debt is growing at an astounding 50% faster than GDP."
Kaufman also notes that credit-derivative contracts increased from roughly $4 trillion at the end of 2003 to $17 trillion at the end of 2005. This growth -- in what Greenspan and the Fed think are so wonderful -- "is not just about reducing risk; it is fueling speculation."
No safety in transparency
Kaufman cited the downside of the Fed's insistence on transparency, that being the explosion of footings on the balance sheets of financial institutions:
"How can this be? The Fed policies of measured response and transparency have improved the capacity of financial intermediaries to gauge the market impact of central-bank actions. In this kind of environment, financial intermediaries employ a variety of 'value at risk' analytical techniques, along with a wide range of credit instruments, to quantify risk within narrow bounds. Ironically, the predictability borne of the Fed's measured response and transparency encourages (my emphasis) risk-taking and speculative trading. As the Fed lowers uncertainty about the near term, investors grow bolder."
At some point (sooner, rather than later), there will be a housing-finance-related "accident," due to an incendiary combination of housing debt and derivatives. That is what lies ahead. What remains to be seen is exactly when the financial bomb gets detonated.
Meanwhile, though this mess has just started, the end game is (and has been) very predictable, as the story states: "Some borrowers are opting to sell homes they can no longer afford." Unfortunately, folks like the accountant from Detroit are going to find that as this occurs, there won't be enough buyers, as many people will need to sell. The inevitable scenario: "Some California brokers say they are beginning to see a return of 'short sales' -- transactions in which the sales price isn't large enough to cover outstanding loans." Soon, this term will be replaced by "jingle mail," which I described in my Aug. 7 column.
Ringmaster of this disaster
That, ladies and gentlemen, is how Alan Greenspan managed to make folks' lives ultimately even worse, in attempting to bail out his equity bubble with a real-estate bubble. Let's never forget who the un-indicted architect of this mess was: Alan Greenspan and the other merry pranksters at the Fed.
Of course, those folks who didn't learn anything from the equity mania, and who will turn out to have gotten themselves trapped in the housing mania, really have only themselves to blame. As I have been warning for at least a couple of years now, all of this was going to be wonderful until it wasn't. That moment in time is upon us.
Bill Fleckenstein is president of Fleckenstein Capital, which manages a hedge fund based in Seattle. He also writes a daily Market Rap column on his Fleckenstein Capital Web site. His investment positions can change at any time. Under no circumstances does the information in this column represent a recommendation to buy, sell or hold any security.

[jbone]

I hope 5 more years is enough time to sort this shiat out. That's when my arm turns into an adjustable. Ouch!
J

[DMOORE]

Between the housing slow down and fuel prices, this is goind to put a big squeeze on the economy.
Darrell.

[riverracerx]

My 30 year jumbo is fixed at 5.65% and staying!

[Kilrtoy]

Stop this nonsense, the RE agents are gonna get mad at you, the market is great BUY BUY BUY :boxed: :boxed: :boxed: :boxed:

[Mandelon]

Foreclosures are going nuts. But are still at historically low percentages. Condos are going to suffer the worst I think. If you bought and had to stretch, you'd better get your budget worked out to a manageable point.

[boatnam2]

i hope the whole thing takes a shit especially the river,then i can get another pad and live happily ever after! :)

[Tequila-John]

i hope the whole thing takes a shit especially the river,then i can get another pad and live happily ever after! :)
BAH watch your month bud!

[DILLIGAF]

My 30 year jumbo is fixed at 5.65% and staying!
:)
Mine are 5.25%, 5.65% and a new one at 6.75% all fixed at 30 years. I never go with anything other than a fixed. I like to know what I will be paying even though intially you pay more......
F all that creative financing mumble jumbo. It doesn't work for ME personally. For others it may be the only way to get into a house but sooner or later the bill has to be paid.

[ChumpChange]

I hope 5 more years is enough time to sort this shiat out. That's when my arm turns into an adjustable. Ouch!
J
I'd recommend Overtime and getting the note paid off by then. I think rates will still be high at that time. Won't have enough time to cycle through.

[cdog]

:)
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/19798531.jpg

[spectras only]

Fortunately I've forgot what a mortgage is :p , but never forget 1982
when interest rates shot up to 18.5 % here in canada . Lot of folks lost their homes ,including a few of my friends :2purples:

[cxr133]

i hope the whole thing takes a shit especially the river,then i can get another pad and live happily ever after! :)
too bad for the people who currently hace houses for sale at the river...
but the wife and I anre hoping this happens also so we can pickup a river pad .. cheap cheap cheap

[syke-o]

would now be a good time to buy some of these homes at a lower price and then rent them out to people who cant afford them anymore??

[boatnam2]

im not sure it will ever be cheap again in parker,but hopefully affordable for the weekend retreat.just might happen you never know

[AirtimeLavey]

Another media hype article. :rolleyes: The example he used was extreme, and didn't clearly spell out all of the details for the woman taking such an enormous loss. :hammer2: Stupidity played a huge factor there. Anyone with any sense knew/knows that the adustable financing deals could and would bite back at some point. Doesn't mean it's a bubble and we're all gonna lose half our values. You just can't paint RE with such a broad brush. So much is location, and other related factors. The media looks to draw in readers. Everyone wants to be the one to say I told you so. Consider the source and look at the hard numbers. It is a good time to buy, long term. Maybe not if you're an novice flipper. I don't have a crystal ball, but I know RE is still the best way to build wealth, if done with some intelligence. The sky is not falling, but it does have it's seasons. Just my .02.

[Jyruiz]

would now be a good time to buy some of these homes at a lower price and then rent them out to people who cant afford them anymore??
Not yet, give it more time.

[Debbolas]

i can still make my house payment :cool: :rollside: 510$
and he can WALK down to Lake Powell to have a beer and a tittie :D lol ;)

[AirtimeLavey]

Stop this nonsense, the RE agents are gonna get mad at you, the market is great BUY BUY BUY :boxed: :boxed: :boxed: :boxed:
No, don't buy.....let's stagnate the market even more. :rolleyes: :D

[DILLIGAF]

No, don't buy.....let's stagnate the market even more. :rolleyes: :D
I just sold a place in AZ and bought another one in Corona. I am doing my part to help the good ol' USA :)

[spectras only]

Tom , when I drove through greater LA , Corona seemed to have the worst air pollution . Are there sawmills burning cedar there ? :rollside:

[socalmofo]

Why do some people on this board get such a hard on over bubble bursting articles? People that start these threads think they were so smart over the last few years to predict a slow down or in their words a "Bubble Burst". Wow you must be a genius, cause we all thought it would last forever.
Is this supposed to be a told you so thread? What is the point? Are you a bitter renter who can't afford the home you want? Have you been watching and reading the how to buy homes with no money down books?
I have never understood why some people get soo excited about these articles. Do you live a dark,sad life and like to see people lose value on their homes and go into foreclosure?

[DILLIGAF]

Tom , when I drove through greater LA , Corona seemed to have the worst air pollution . Are there sawmills burning cedar there ? :rollside:
Corona is bad because it is in a canyon area...at least where I am at. It is true that the air is bad here because everything blows thru here. Good news is it keeps going...bad news is it keeps coming :(

[Chipster27]

Stop this nonsense, the RE agents are gonna get mad at you, the market is great BUY BUY BUY
Ironically that's almost the exact quote a realtor gave me yesterday. "Now that summer is over it's starting to pick up again..." Yea BS I can see the same houses sitting this week that were there 3 months ago.
If someone is serious about selling their place, price it to sell. You're kidding yourself if you think you can price it 10% higher than the last recorded sale.

[mbrown2]

i hope the whole thing takes a shit especially the river,then i can get another pad and live happily ever after! :)
Should have never sold the 1st to Jim and Shiela....but at least they did bring another pretty Schiada to the river...:)

[UpRiver]

Doesn't a bubble usually burst ? I don't see any panic selling so I don't think this is over yet. Maybe a bumpy landing but the bottom isn't falling out yet. If it does burst prices will fall and people will panic but intrest rates will be so high you won't be able to afford a house then either. :)

[No Name]

Hearing things like this make me so happy I never took out a second mortgage on my home. I have a 5 1/4% fixed and my payment is under 1.000.00 a month, that’s less then some people’s boat payment, and I’m happy to say I don’t have one of those either. :)
Good luck to all who are in over their heads. :220v:

[Tom Slick]

Why do some people on this board get such a hard on over bubble bursting articles? People that start these threads think they were so smart over the last few years to predict a slow down or in their words a "Bubble Burst". Wow you must be a genius, cause we all thought it would last forever.
Is this supposed to be a told you so thread? What is the point? Are you a bitter renter who can't afford the home you want? Have you been watching and reading the how to buy homes with no money down books?
I have never understood why some people get soo excited about these articles. Do you live a dark,sad life and like to see people lose value on their homes and go into foreclosure?
Wow, guess I'm a huge A-hole for simply sharing an interesting article that was sent to me and excuse me for posting it here on a public forum. Perhaps some folks are interested in this kind of stuff and would appreciate reading an article like this, since there are unforunately many people in this country that are effected by this change in our economy. Fact is, this is a reality and it's going to have an impact on many peoples lives, good and bad. No, I don't wish any ill will on anyone and your remarks towards me are complete BS. If you have such a problem with threads like this one, then don't ready them. Now, back to my "dark, sad life". :cry:

[AirtimeLavey]

I just sold a place in AZ and bought another one in Corona. I am doing my part to help the good ol' USA :)
Good man. See, here's an example of a wealthy man, building more wealth, intelligently. :D

[DILLIGAF]

Good man. See, here's an example of a wealthy man, building more wealth, intelligently. :D
I will take the good man comment but.....
wealthy? intelligent?
lol

[AirtimeLavey]

I will take the good man comment but.....
wealthy? intelligent?
lol
Oh yeah, I forgot you're a Clipper fan... :crossx:

[DILLIGAF]

Oh yeah, I forgot you're a Clipper fan... :crossx:
It has started even before preseason :)

[AirtimeLavey]

It has started even before preseason :)
It's still over a month away.... :cry:

[TOBTEK]

Wow, guess I'm a huge A-hole for simply sharing an interesting article that was sent to me and excuse me for posting it here on a public forum. Perhaps some folks are interested in this kind of stuff and would appreciate reading an article like this, since there are unforunately many people in this country that are effected by this change in our economy. Fact is, this is a reality and it's going to have an impact on many peoples lives, good and bad. No, I don't wish any ill will on anyone and your remarks towards me are complete BS. If you have such a problem with threads like this one, then don't ready them. Now, back to my "dark, sad life". :cry:
YEAH... PRETTY MUCH! :rollside: J/K I due believe the MEDIA has ALOT to do with the slow down. They have the ability to talk everyone into a recession. People need to remember back when they were paying 8%, 9% or more on their mortgages ( not this ARTIFICIAL enviroment we have been in post 911 ) . Things would be fine if the media would just STFU (quote from dilligaf :) ) IF people listen to the news and STOP buying, things will explode and then you'll see your value get hurt. You would be suprised how many people we are still refinancing that are in 8% or higher mortages.

[cdog]

Brought to you by Corey Condit @ RE/MAX Real Estate Services in Anaheim Hills...
September 7, 2006
Good Morning!
With school bells ringing, it is time for sellers to apply what they have learned, price accordingly or do the entire market a favor and do NOT sell. Sellers ARE choosing to pull their homes off the market. In August there were 3,121 homes pulled off, compared to 1,262 in August 2005. The active listing inventory dropped from 16,006 two weeks ago to 15,767 today, a 239 home drop. Yet, the market time for Orange County increased from 6.79 months two weeks ago to 7.12 months today. The increase is due to drop in demand, typical for this time of year, the official “Fall Market.” The number of homes placed into escrow within the prior 30 days, demand, is at 2,216 homes today, compared to 2,357 homes two weeks ago, a 141 home drop. Disgruntled sellers just are not pulling their homes off the market fast enough to help drop market time. We can expect a bit more of a drop in demand and quite a bit more of a drop in the active inventory as more and more sellers opt to pull their homes off the market. In the coffee room, many agents state that there are still some sellers who refuse to listen to the market and are still holding out for unrealistic values. For these sellers, no matter how stubborn and adamant they are about pricing, they will not sell. Buyers in today’s market simply are not willing to overpay for a home. There is just far too much competition. As these sellers become discouraged, they too will pull their homes off the market. Compared to January 1st of this year, there are 8,524 additional homes on the market today. Out of the 15,767 homes on the market, 4,335 are vacant, or 27.5% of the market. This statistic is very interesting and illustrates that there really is motivation in the market. At today’s demand it would take more than two months to exhaust just the vacant listing inventory. For proper perspective, one year ago today, there were only 7,319 homes on the market, 8,449 fewer compared to today, and there were 3,281 homes placed into escrow within the prior 30 days, 1,065 additional escrows compared to today. The market time was at 2.23 months. It was about this time last year that the Orange County real estate market began its transition to the market we know today. Slowly, but surely, more and more homes were placed on the market as demand dropped. The market time slowly climbed from the 2.23 month mark to 4.01 months by the end of December. Today, all ranges above $500,000 are within the definition of a buyer’s market, six months of inventory or more. All ranges above $1.5 million are above the 10 month mark. There is virtually NO difference in market time between attached homes and detached homes. The Orange County market is not for the faint of heart. For the best strategy to capitalize on the market, buyers and sellers must turn to the wisdom and experience of a professional real estate agent.
What can we expect for the rest of the year? Orange County has officially entered the Fall market. With the kids back in school, we have already realized a small drop in demand. Demand should drop a little bit more over the coming weeks. Unlike 2005, there are a tremendous number of sellers who have been on the market for months. In 2005, most sellers were successful during the first 3 quarters. Today’s sellers that have been unsuccessful for a long period of time, for whatever reason, will be inclined to pull their homes off the market, especially given the typically hotter Spring and Summer markets are now in the past. The probability of success is not high. With 15,767 homes on the market and only 2,216 homes placed into escrow within the prior 30 days, given this most recent snapshot, 13,551 sellers will not successfully sell their homes over the next month. We will enter the Holiday market after Halloween. With the distractions of the holidays, demand will drop further as fewer sellers opt to place their homes on the market. Demand will not pick up until the middle of January as we rev up for the Spring market.
How should a seller approach the market? Unmotivated sellers should do the entire market a favor and pull their homes off the market NOW. It certainly would make it a lot easier for buyers to work with motivated sellers. There is no sense of urgency for buyers. But, for a seller, sitting on the market at an unrealistic price is like fishing without bait. Gone are the days of catching a fish by just placing your hook in the water. The fish are a lot smarter now. So, if sellers are unwilling to be realistic, they should pull their homes off the market and enjoy the colors of the Fall and all of the wonderful distractions of the holidays. A reduction in the number of “for sale” signs and “open house” directional arrows would be a great thing. In the end, the market will be left with those that really have to sell or are highly motivated. Now that we have entered the Fall market and the Holiday market is right around the corner, sellers need to be prepared for fewer showings and fewer inquiries. Sellers should not expect immediate success unless they are willing to price their home for less than the last comparable sale. But, there still are no guarantees. In pricing, adding “pad” or “cushion” to make room for negotiating is not advisable. The end result will be wasted time sitting on the market. In most cases, until demand changes, homes are going to sell for less than the last comparable sale. If a seller is not willing to price their home according to the market value, they simply will not sell. For sellers, the fundamental key to success is CAREFULLY selecting their real estate agent. What should they look for in an agent? Local market knowledge, exceptional communication skills and a detailed marketing strategy are absolutely essential to achieving success in this market. DO NOT choose an agent based upon a promised price. Instead choose an agent based upon experience, knowledge and a genuine comfort level. Sellers should price their homes carefully, analyzing escrow activity first, most recent sales second and then older sales (not more than six months back). Lastly, take a look at the active inventory to see where they would rank compared to the competition and to see if there are any sellers who have priced their home below the last comparable sale or escrow.
Did I mention I'm in the top 1% of all Realtors...... :)

[Tom Slick]

YEAH... PRETTY MUCH! :rollside: J/K I due believe the MEDIA has ALOT to do with the slow down. They have the ability to talk everyone into a recession. People need to remember back when they were paying 8%, 9% or more on their mortgages ( not this ARTIFICIAL enviroment we have been in post 911 ) . Things would be fine if the media would just STFU (quote from dilligaf :) ) IF people listen to the news and STOP buying, things will explode and then you'll see your value get hurt. You would be suprised how many people we are still refinancing that are in 8% or higher mortages.
I think that the biggest problem with the slow down is the extremely over inflated prices. It comes down to people actually being able to afford a home and when the median price for a home here in So. Cal. is somewhere around the mid $500's, it gets tough for folks to afford. With interest rates on the rise it gets even more difficult and with inventories going up it creates competition. It comes down to rates and supply versus demand. Right now we have a huge supply with rising rates, which equals less demand. All that means is that if you have a property that you want to move, you're going to have to lower your price to be competitive. Otherwise your home is going to sit on the market, which is happening in many areas.

[DCBDaytona]

Houses are overpriced and sitting on the market for months. Buyers are holding out, and thus this will be the beginning of the decline. Only those houses that are DEALS will sell now...As it appears today in Havasu, I'll have a river house sooner than I expected. :)

[AirtimeLavey]

I think that the biggest problem with the slow down is the extremely over inflated prices. It comes down to people actually being able to afford a home and when the median price for a home here in So. Cal. is somewhere around the mid $500's, it gets tough for folks to afford. With interest rates on the rise it gets even more difficult and with inventories going up it creates competition. It comes down to rates and supply versus demand. Right now we have a huge supply with rising rates, which equals less demand. All that means is that if you have a property that you want to move, you're going to have to lower your price to be competitive. Otherwise your home is going to sit on the market, which is happening in many areas.
:idea: hmmm...I hear some different conversation on this. Here's an interesting link....interest rate trends (http://mortgage-x.com/trends.htm)
Can't argue with supply and demand, but for now, the market is in a unique situation, where there is still appreciation (in most areas, not all). Not huge appreciation of the recent years, but appreciation non-the-less. CA appreciation (http://dailybulletin.socalhomesite.com/article.do?id=30)

[AirtimeLavey]

Ironically that's almost the exact quote a realtor gave me yesterday. "Now that summer is over it's starting to pick up again..." Yea BS I can see the same houses sitting this week that were there 3 months ago.
If someone is serious about selling their place, price it to sell. You're kidding yourself if you think you can price it 10% higher than the last recorded sale.
Wow. Can't say I agree w/that comment. What realtor said that? You might want to talk to more realtors. Usually, just the opposite is true. I agree with the rest of your comments, though.

[Trailer Park Casanova]

Slow leak in some markets maybe,, but no burst IMHO.

[socalmofo]

With interest rates on the rise it gets even more difficult and with inventories going up it creates competition. It comes down to rates and supply versus demand. Right now we have a huge supply with rising rates, which equals less demand.
False! Rates have gone down in the last 6 weeks.

[DCBDaytona]

Common theme: All RE Agents remain positive/optimistic regarding the market.
My thought: All RE Agents have to remain positive...For god sakes, if the market turns RE agents will be facing hard times. No wonder they are optimistic. :)
Conclusion: I sure hope the MILLIONS of Agents in Ca. were smart enough to stash some cash and prepare for some harder times.

[3 daytona`s]

Houses are overpriced and sitting on the market for months. Buyers are holding out, and thus this will be the beginning of the decline. Only those houses that are DEALS will sell now...As it appears today in Havasu, I'll have a river house sooner than I expected. :)
DCB you are 100% when I moved to BHC little over a year ago I had a RE tell me to step up or get out of line there are 10 behind me ready and willing to not buy but put their bid in over asking price.The climate here now is owner will carry price reduced etc etc. I`ve been told my several the hot shit RE is sucking air now I`ll wait for awhile and will make it a point to call her and see her attitude then.The people were greedy here over 100% price increase in 2-3 years.I don`t want people to suffer but that sort of greed deserves what happens.

[UpRiver]

DCB you are 100% when I moved to BHC little over a year ago I had a RE tell me to step up or get out of line there are 10 behind me ready and willing to not buy but put their bid in over asking price.The climate here now is owner will carry price reduced etc etc. I`ve been told my several the hot shit RE is sucking air now I`ll wait for awhile and will make it a point to call her and see her attitude then.The people were greedy here over 100% price increase in 2-3 years.I don`t want people to suffer but that sort of greed deserves what happens.
Not only that but how many working class stiffs do you know of that got a 100% increase in pay over the last 5 years ? Well the only ones I know of "were" working in real estate. The downturn will weed out the greedy.

[GHT]

There is not a "bubble Bursting" in the housing market. The market has leveled and is in a current "holding pattern". Big F'ing deal.... If people didn't make "GRAVE" mistakes with the equity in there homes then they should be Okay. Of course if they did make "GRAVE" mistakes (aka.. Big Baller Syndrom) then they are going to be screwed. Sorry, but the truth hurts sometimes. The market WILL recover it is only a matter of time. Those that made the right decisions will be MUCH better in the next 5 to 10 yrs. The others...??? Will be talking about what they SHOULD have done...
My .02

[DCBDaytona]

Not only that but how many working class stiffs do you know of that got a 100% increase in pay over the last 5 years ? Well the only ones I know of "were" working in real estate. The downturn will weed out the greedy.
Yes sir. The RE Agents who have been around for 20+ years and have a great reputation will be alright. The newcomers who've been making cheese during the last boom will suffer!

[callbob4homes]

Not only that but how many working class stiffs do you know of that got a 100% increase in pay over the last 5 years ? Well the only ones I know of "were" working in real estate. The downturn will weed out the greedy.
This is probably the dipshit of the week award for uninformed and uneducated comments. Nuthin personal here bud, but it is not the agent that is greedy, it is the seller. Agents do not set the price, we offer advice given the market conditions AT THE TIME. The seller can always set the price, but the buyer will ALWAYS set the value. That is what is happening now. The market has come back to the buyer. and Miguel, I had more faith in you than your comment. It really is a good time to buy.............................if you are intelligent enough to do it properly, and not thinking about your toy value. That's where peeps are getting bit now, they leveraged their homes to buy that DCB and new Corvette and now that home values and interest rates have changed.................................well not so pretty now I guess. The ones that sat on their home equity are still sitting pretty and laughing at the "opportunitists" (sp?) out there. Lots of experts on here, but a few sitting back and counting their money I would venture and laughing at the rest. :rolleyes:

[SummitKarl]

This is probably the dipshit of the week award for uninformed and uneducated comments. Nuthin personal here bud, but it is not the agent that is greedy, it is the seller. Agents do not set the price, we offer advice given the market conditions AT THE TIME. The seller can always set the price, but the buyer will ALWAYS set the value. That is what is happening now. The market has come back to the buyer. and Miguel, I had more faith in you than your comment. It really is a good time to buy.............................if you are intelligent enough to do it properly, and not thinking about your toy value. That's where peeps are getting bit now, they leveraged their homes to buy that DCB and new Corvette and now that home values and interest rates have changed.................................well not so pretty now I guess. The ones that sat on their home equity are still sitting pretty and laughing at the "opportunitists" (sp?) out there. Lots of experts on here, but a few sitting back and counting their money I would venture and laughing at the rest. :rolleyes:
as usual your always right on the money :)
the phase most commonly spoken here among the Havasu R/E is "Things are returning to normal", I am sure there is a fair amount of "weeding out" to be done for those that HELOC'd themselves into irresponsible debt trying to play "keep up with the jones" :rolleyes:
equity is just that equity..a "unrealized gain" it is not a pre-approved credit card, just like you can't borrow yourself out of debt you can't borrow yourself into a higher standard of living then you can REALLY afford. just because the loan officer can get you the loan DOES NOT mean you can afford it. I would like to see just how many actually followed the rules of being a borrower or lender in not exceeding 55% of your Gross in reoccurring debt. :hammer2:
so really in the end it's the irresponsibility of borrowers and lenders that caused the unrealistic growth over the last few years not R/E agents. IMO
Supply and demand will always set the market/value of homes. it's irresponsible borrowers and lenders that hurt the economy of R/E

[FLOJO]

i cant wait for the person who paid 500,000 to live in pacioma wake up and say i live in the hood what the -uck was i thinking

[AirtimeLavey]

This is probably the dipshit of the week award for uninformed and uneducated comments. Nuthin personal here bud, but it is not the agent that is greedy, it is the seller. Agents do not set the price, we offer advice given the market conditions AT THE TIME. The seller can always set the price, but the buyer will ALWAYS set the value. That is what is happening now. The market has come back to the buyer. and Miguel, I had more faith in you than your comment. It really is a good time to buy.............................if you are intelligent enough to do it properly, and not thinking about your toy value. That's where peeps are getting bit now, they leveraged their homes to buy that DCB and new Corvette and now that home values and interest rates have changed.................................well not so pretty now I guess. The ones that sat on their home equity are still sitting pretty and laughing at the "opportunitists" (sp?) out there. Lots of experts on here, but a few sitting back and counting their money I would venture and laughing at the rest. :rolleyes:
Funny how most people don't stop to realize this. It's these same people that get all caught up in the hype...
I am looking forward to the thinning of the herd (RE agents & lenders), though. As for pay, hate to say it, but commissions are actually starting to creep up. The Walmart-style 1 & 2%ers are going away. Those were really the greedy ones. Turn and burn, with minimal service. Good riddens.

[Tom Slick]

False! Rates have gone down in the last 6 weeks.
Let me guess, you must be a RE agent, because your still living under the assumption that the market is still fantastic and won't ever come to an end. Listen guy, if you think the RE market isn't on a downward trend, then you are a very ignorant person. The cycle peaked bud, and now it's on its way back down. Doesn't mean it won't come back someday. Time for you to get a reality check and realize that rates are much higher then they were 1 to 2 years ago and bullshit Neg. Am. and ARM's aren't going to get the job done in the long run. For many people it is time to pay the piper and it sucks for them, but facts are facts and unfortunately there are many that have gotten in way over their heads and are now in a tough situation. Hate me and my words all you want, but the facts are the facts and any RE agent with any common sense will tell you the same. Is it the end of the RE world, NO, but it is a different RE world and myself and many of the experts in the business have the same feeling. This topic has been brought up many times over the past couple of years, so my inclusion of this article is simply for food for thought, not for your lame ass to come on hear and be a prick. Have a nice day and good luck selling your homes. Piece!!!

[Tom Slick]

This is probably the dipshit of the week award for uninformed and uneducated comments. Nuthin personal here bud, but it is not the agent that is greedy, it is the seller. Agents do not set the price, we offer advice given the market conditions AT THE TIME. The seller can always set the price, but the buyer will ALWAYS set the value. That is what is happening now. The market has come back to the buyer. and Miguel, I had more faith in you than your comment. It really is a good time to buy.............................if you are intelligent enough to do it properly, and not thinking about your toy value. That's where peeps are getting bit now, they leveraged their homes to buy that DCB and new Corvette and now that home values and interest rates have changed.................................well not so pretty now I guess. The ones that sat on their home equity are still sitting pretty and laughing at the "opportunitists" (sp?) out there. Lots of experts on here, but a few sitting back and counting their money I would venture and laughing at the rest. :rolleyes:
This is a big part of the equation...Great point!

[ROZ]

Let me guess, you must be a RE agent, because your still living under the assumption that the market is still fantastic and won't ever come to an end.
I'm no real estate expert and don't know this guy from Adam, but did he say the market was fantastic?
I also don't think a correction is bubble bursting... Then again, define bubble burst. you 'll likely get several different answers based on opinions... A 10% hit is not a burst to me...
I think that if a person finds a house they can AFFORD to live in to make a "home" and are not just buying to flip, that person will be okay...
The problem is that the comsumer over the last 7 years paid the inflated asking prices of homes.
I "think" the 700k - 950k homes will be hit the hardest. People who can afford a 2 mil- 6mil house can generally afford the house.. I "think" "homes" in good areas without mello roos(or any other non tax, tax) and have reasonable(35-75 per month) HOA fees that are selling for 450k-525k will be in better standing.
The 2 homes that haven't moved in my area are on busy street and can stand to use updating and landscaping. The problem is that these two homeowners have priced their homes equal to the much nicer homes in our area that have great curb appeal.
I agree with what Mandelon has posted on several occasions: The people who have over extended themselves will be the ones in trouble. T

[Tom Slick]

Roz,
I don't believe that I ever said that the bubble was bursting, however the article that I posted did. All I did was post an article that was sent to me for people to read and this guy jumps down my throat for doing so. Read his first post towards me and you'll understand why he pissed me off and got the reply from me that he did. This wasn't intended to turn into a pissing contest, it was supposed to be educational. Oh well, win some, loose some. Have a nice weekend.

[Fire Water]

The market here in SC is a little different but not much.
Hilton Head Island busted about six months ago. It's slowly starting to happen here in Charleston SC as well.
The biggest problem I see are the interest only loans. I've seen figures as high as 40% of all new mortgages are interest only.
The scenario is as follows. Thirties something couple buys a house that they really can't afford, but are able to because all they're paying is the interest. Interest only loans are short term. I don't know of any over five years. The couples are planing on selling the house and walking away with alot of equity. Problem is the market is slowing down because the prices have become unrealistic. Their note comes due and when they refinance the rising interest rate causes payments to become unaffordable. Now they can't make the house payment and the market has droped so they can't sell either. Looking at a lose or forclosure. What really scares me is it almost reminds me of what bying on margin did in the 1920's. Theses people are trying to control large assets with small investments. Every thing is great until their margin gets called, then they're in way over thier head.
It just doesn't seem realistic for the market to double in price in less than 5 years which is what has happened here.

[DCBDaytona]

The market here in SC is a little different but not much.
Hilton Head Island busted about six months ago. It's slowly starting to happen here in Charleston SC as well.
The biggest problem I see are the interest only loans. I've seen figures as high as 40% of all new mortgages are interest only.
The scenario is as follows. Thirties something couple buys a house that they really can't afford, but are able to because all they're paying is the interest. Interest only loans are short term. I don't know of any over five years. The couples are planing on selling the house and walking away with alot of equity. Problem is the market is slowing down because the prices have become unrealistic. Their note comes due and when they refinance the rising interest rate causes payments to become unaffordable. Now they can't make the house payment and the market has droped so they can't sell either. Looking at a lose or forclosure. What really scares me is it almost reminds me of what bying on margin did in the 1920's. Theses people are trying to control large assets with small investments. Every thing is great until their margin gets called, then they're in way over thier head.
It just doesn't seem realistic for the market to double in price in less than 5 years which is what has happened here.
EXACTLY. As HavasuCig and I have been saying...The last couple years buyers are similar to Margin Buyers in the Stock Market. While the market is hot, you can leverage yourself well. But as soon as the market turns, you get margin called! This is when all hell breaks loose and people become desperate to cover their loses.

[Havasu Cig]

Another good Article...
Getting real about the real estate bubble
Fortune's Shawn Tully dispels four myths about the future of home prices.
By Shawn Tully, Fortune editor-at-large
August 25 2006: 5:42 AM EDT
NEW YORK (Fortune) -- For the past five years, the housing bulls have been trotting out one rational-sounding argument after another to explain why the boom made perfect economic sense.
Forget about a crash, they assured homeowners. Expect a "soft landing" where your three-bedroom colonial in Larchmont or Larkspur not only holds onto its huge price gains, but keeps appreciating at a "normal," "sustainable" rate of 6 percent or so into the sunset.
More from FORTUNE
10 breakaway brands
Serwer: Measure buy measure
Hottest college degrees for job seekers
FORTUNE 500
Current Issue
Subscribe to Fortune
Real estate slowdown
New homes slump worsens
Pace of new home sales falls more than forecast as inventory builds, prices decline. (more)
Freebies for home buyers
Home sellers are trying to find creative ways to get buyers to sign on the dotted line. (more)
Americans wanted to believe, and they did. Now, the giant popping noise you're hearing is the sound of yesterday's myths exploding like balloons pumped up with too much hot air.
The newest sign that the myth-makers were spectacularly wrong is the data on existing home sales for July. Nationwide, median prices rose .9 percent.
But even that meager number masks the real story. Prices actually fell where housing is most vulnerable, in the bubble markets in the West and Northeast. In the Northeast, they dropped 2.1 percent from July of 2005, at the same time prices nationwide rose around 3 percent, meaning that houses lost over 5 percent of their value adjusted for inflation.
Homeowners just saw their wealth shrink, by a lot. The numbers will only get worse. It's time to examine the clichés that the "experts" - chiefly analysts and economists from realtors and mortgage associations - used to convince Americans that what they're seeing now could never happen. Here are the four great housing myths - and why they never made much sense in the first place.
Myth #1: As long as job growth is strong, prices can't go down
You can almost forgive the bulls for stumbling over this one. In past housing recessions, prices fell sharply in markets with severe job losses, like Texas in the mid-80s and Boston in the early 90s.
But the argument that prices can't fall in a good job market doesn't make economic sense: To be sure, a strong employment picture helps demand. But if far more houses are pouring onto the market than can be absorbed by households lured by the new jobs, and if the sellers are pressured to sell, prices will fall.
That's precisely what's happening now in good job markets such as San Diego and Northern Virginia. In this boom, prices soared to such extraordinary levels that builders kept churning out new homes, and owners of existing houses threw a record number of units on the market to cash out. The supply grew so fast that demand, even in strong job markets, simply couldn't keep up.
As usual, for the believers, it's always easier to fall back on a cliché than read the warning signs.
Myth #2: The builders learned their lesson in the last downturn. They won't swamp the market with new houses when the market turns
You might call this the OPEC theory of homebuilders. The idea was that the builders wouldn't take a chance by building lots of unsold, "spec" units that could clog the market in a downturn. They had supposedly absorbed hard-won discipline from their excessive building in past downturns.
Well, it hasn't turned out that way. Builders are still pouring out near-record numbers of new homes as sales decline, assuring a further fall in prices. "Buyers" are walking away from deposits on houses that were supposedly pre-sold, forcing developers to throw them back on the market at a discount.
The problem is that even now, margins on new homes are still pretty good, though well below the levels of a year ago. As a result, builders will just keep building until those big margins evaporate. High prices are sewing the seeds of their own demise. They always do.
Myth #3: Low interest rates will keep values rising, or at the very least, put a floor under prices
What really matters for all assets, whether it's houses, stocks or bonds, is real interest rates - in other words, nominal rates after subtracting inflation. And real rates fell sharply starting in 2001. That caused a legitimate, one-time increase in housing prices.
The rub is that prices rose far more than could ever be justified by declining mortgage rates. That's where the bubble kicked in. Today's relatively low rates are not, and never were, a reason why prices would keep rising. Once real rates drop and stabilize, the impetus goes away - again, the gain is a one-time, not a recurring, phenomenon.
Today, real 10-year rates are still extremely low. They have nowhere to go but up. When the one-time gain of 2001-2004 reverses, housing prices could take a further hit.
By the way, a decline in rates due to a fall in inflation isn't the boom to real estate it's advertised to be. Sure, rates go down, but workers also receive lower raises. So the fall in rates turns out to be a wash. As for what matters - real rates - what goes down later goes up, and housing prices go in the other direction, namely south.
Myth #4: restriction on development in the suburbs ensure low supply, and guarantee rising prices
This argument ignores that the tough zoning laws and anti-development fervor have been a feature of America's tony towns since the early 1970s. The "not in my town" phenomenon is nothing new.
Sure, it's still difficult to get new building permits in suburbs of New Jersey, New York, Washington, Seattle and San Francisco. But America's housing market is extremely fluid. People move farther from job centers, and commute longer hours, to get bargains where housing is plentiful. Then the jobs move to the areas with the cheap houses. People in their 50s and 60s cash out early in San Diego and buy a bigger house for half the money in Texas or South Carolina.
And the cities are just as enthusiastic about developing blighted areas with new, tax-paying high-rises as the suburbs are slamming the door. In the New York area, Brooklyn, Jersey City and Hoboken - and even Manhattan - are sprouting more new housing than in decades, despite a job market that's hardly robust.
A year ago, the reigning cliché was that real estate had entered a new world of "no supply." Now, a record 3.85 million homes are up for sale, and buyers are getting scarce.
No, the world hasn't changed. And the myths haven't changed either. Next time, don't believe them.

[catman-do]

In speculative markets such as California, Arizona, Southern Idaho, Texas, and Florida the prices will and in most cases have dropped. In other markets where they didnt see the same gains there wont be a drop. It will still be an avg influx. KB and Wright both cut expected earnings for 2007 and made the market drop a little on Thrusday. The fed is expected to do one more hike in rates to level off inflation. The unemployment rates for most of the country are still very low, and inflation levels are still to high compared to the avg income gains for the working person (4% per year, while specialized or upper mgmt is getting 8-9.5% increases). There wont be the huge burst that everyone is worried about. The 350-500K range is still hot, however the houses that are now above 600K are seeing extended DOM for MLS. Havasu would have been a great place to sell about 5 months ago. Ive been studying their market and around March a newer house (1998 or newer) about 1400-1500 sqft with parking was going for 250-300k. Now there are several going for 190k. I would think that by the time Feb 07 comes around I will pick up a house for around 140-150k with those qualifications.
Alot of distress sales in boats, and second homes right now. People are shitting their pants over bills and never thought about the "rainy season". Even Im thinking about selling the boat, bikes, motorhome, trailer, and one car so that I can afford to buy distress sales in the next 18 months!! Then I will pay cash to buy all the stuff back.

[ROZ]

Roz,
I don't believe that I ever said that the bubble was bursting, however the article that I posted did. All I did was post an article that was sent to me for people to read and this guy jumps down my throat for doing so. Read his first post towards me and you'll understand why he pissed me off and got the reply from me that he did. This wasn't intended to turn into a pissing contest, it was supposed to be educational. Oh well, win some, loose some. Have a nice weekend.
I never said you said the bubble is bursting.
People will always be sensitive toward their investments, job, and dog...maybe the wife, too :D
Chalk it down to ***boat :D
Have a good one :D

[UpRiver]

This is probably the dipshit of the week award for uninformed and uneducated comments. Nuthin personal here bud, but it is not the agent that is greedy, it is the seller. Agents do not set the price, we offer advice given the market conditions AT THE TIME. The seller can always set the price, but the buyer will ALWAYS set the value. That is what is happening now. The market has come back to the buyer. and Miguel, I had more faith in you than your comment. It really is a good time to buy.............................if you are intelligent enough to do it properly, and not thinking about your toy value. That's where peeps are getting bit now, they leveraged their homes to buy that DCB and new Corvette and now that home values and interest rates have changed.................................well not so pretty now I guess. The ones that sat on their home equity are still sitting pretty and laughing at the "opportunitists" (sp?) out there. Lots of experts on here, but a few sitting back and counting their money I would venture and laughing at the rest. :rolleyes:
No offense taken, bud :boxed: However you would like to look at it you still make 6% on the sale of a home that you list and sell. 5 years ago if you sold my home for $300k you would charge a commission of $18k, now if you sold the exact same home today for $800k you would charge 6% or $48k. 1.Am I wrong ? 2.Did you do any more work to sell it for 800k then you did to sell it for $300k ? But you made $30k more, now an uneducated, uninformed dipshit (hey I resemble that comment) might question what exactly you did to make so much more money this time? But I guess an educated and informed smartshit would not question that. Actually we agree that sellers don't set the price in a free market, buyers do. :rollside:
Oh I forgot I have 1 more question: Who do you work for ?
a) the buyer
or
b) the seller

[cdog]

I'm at a listing doing an open house right now. All the showings have been from agents due to the full 6 percent commission. No walk in's so far.

[al cole'holic]

...just got in from the Troop Real Estate company picnic with most all of the 600 agents, and they too agree....THE SKY IS FALLING!!! hahahaha :)
My line that is becoming my mantra on here, "buy something, anything if you don't own a property!"....or, continue to hold onto your sack :)

[echo]

Alot of real intellegent posts, but the key word is cycle. The market has always cycled,always will. Buckle-up. about 3 years this time.

[callbob4homes]

No offense taken, bud :boxed: However you would like to look at it you still make 6% on the sale of a home that you list and sell. 5 years ago if you sold my home for $300k you would charge a commission of $18k, now if you sold the exact same home today for $800k you would charge 6% or $48k. 1.Am I wrong ? 2.Did you do any more work to sell it for 800k then you did to sell it for $300k ? But you made $30k more, now an uneducated, uninformed dipshit (hey I resemble that comment) might question what exactly you did to make so much more money this time? But I guess an educated and informed smartshit would not question that. Actually we agree that sellers don't set the price in a free market, buyers do. :rollside:
Oh I forgot I have 1 more question: Who do you work for ?
a) the buyer
or
b) the seller
Different markets, different prices, and ALL commissions are negotiable. ALL OF THEM. If they are not, find another agent. Simple answer here, if you are willing to price your home to sell (not just be an inventory home that you expect me to advertise, put out 30 flyers a month, sit open house on 2 a week, put in 12 different websites, newspapers and home magazines) than you are damn right I will negotiate my commission. The way I do business, if you want to put some unrealistic price on your home hoping for a hit, I would not even take the listing. There is always some out there that will. If I was showing homes to buyers and I did the comps on your house related to like homes in the area, I would recommend the buyers pass or possibly not even show it. When I was listing homes by the hour, I was not charging 6 percent, but I had almost nothing invested either but the time to enter the home in the MLS and put up a sign. The other side of the coin is, you were also making more, and getting it faster than doing it yourself. Case in point. I was driving over to my parents house one day and saw a guy putting a for sale by owner sign in his front yard. 2 blocks away from the same house I sold my folks a month before. Stopped and asked him how much he was asking. He replied with the same price I got the one for my folks. Keep in mind, the market is spiking now. I ask him if he would list it with me if I could CLEAR him more money than what he was asking after commissions. Long story short, I had the house sold the next day and he cleared more than he was asking. Sometimes, some of us do know more about the market than most do it your self types. Not to say all, because there are some out there that do the market research and do know how to get er done. If you feel comfortable doing your own negotiations and due diligence and are able to sue your own ass for any mistakes you might make, than by all means go for it. and your number 2 comment, did I do any more work to sell it now than before? I would have to say hell yes in this market. Sorry, I don't buy into a lot of those arguments. Cost of doing business has changed, no matter what you do for a living. If you make that much of a profit on a house, there is a reason for it and cost of living for everyone, wages, and supply and demand all come into play. 40K today ain't the 40 K of yesterday.
As far as who do I work for?
I list the house, I work for the seller
I bring the buyer around, I work for the buyer
I get them both? Called dual agency, doesn't happen very often when you get to double dip (the full commission)
Our market here (as well as most) you have to offer 3% to the selling side or your property will not get shown. Ethical? not really, but a fact of life.
So it is a split, not the listing agent getting the whole enchilada.
I am getting tired of typing or I would continue on this class of RE 101, but suffice to say, there are a lot more costs (to some agents) than most of the public is not aware. Not to mention the cost of the duct tape! :cry: :rollside:

[ratso]

I have built and sold a few homes. The commissions were never negotiable, but I do still think it's wise to go with a realtor... one that will WORK for you. Seems too many just want to get the listings, maybe do an open house, then put it on the back burner. Not one of my homes ever sold by the person that listed it, yet they still got a cut for sitting on their dead asses. I will do my homework better next time, yet I still believe in going through a realtor.

[cc322]

Well instead of getting double didgets on home values I quess I can live with the leveled forecast and single didget increase in Mission Viejo, key word being increase. Land is tight here in the OC and alot of peeps are wanting in. Especially when Irvine is full of business, oh yeah did I mention one of the best planned areas around, jobs, schools, income. As far as the river, who cares its a vaacation place, wouldnt want to live there full time right now anyhow.

[callbob4homes]

and I don't really want to sound like I am going off on you Upriver, I just get sorta tired of hearing about what I do is worth less that what you do. (not you personally) I should keep my wages the same as 5 or 6 years ago? Would you? My expenses don't stay the same.
Ratso, I know what you are saying, but the whole idea of listing with an agent and putting it in the MLS is that you are effectively hiring the whole REALTOR community in that association. I very rarely sell my own listings, but I get them out there for the exposure and once we have a nibble, I try to get the hook set and make sure the seller gets the representation they deserve.
and yes there are some shitbags in this business, I used to work for one of them when I was in the Zoo, but what business doesn't have it's share of slime?

[Trailer Park Casanova]

I have been buying and selling homes forever.
My experience:
Male agents either answer the phone or get right back.
Female agents rarely answer the phone, and never get back to you.
I've had one plum property where I got sandbagged and they held out for an in house listing and sale to take the full comission, and that sucked so I listed it in the paper and it sold immediately, and beat the commission.
So many biz have taken a hit from the internet like travel agents, catalog sales ect.
The internet seems to be an electronic brochure for homes,, and perhaps the commissions need to be corrected in some cases.

[callbob4homes]

I have been buying and selling homes forever.
My experience:
Male agents either answer the phone or get right back.
Female agents rarely answer the phone, and never get back to you.
I've had one plum property where I got sandbagged and they held out for an in house listing and sale to take the full comission, and that sucked so I listed it in the paper and it sold immediately, and beat the commission.
So many biz have taken a hit from the internet like travel agents, catalog sales ect.
The internet seems to be an electronic brochure for homes,, and perhaps the commissions need to be corrected in some cases.
Lot of good points and personally I would not mind a sliding scale. If your homes sells quickly and with little effort, or I beat this dog all around the strret, I can live with it. One sale and a disallusioned client won't get you repeat biz.

[locogringo]

Why do some people on this board get such a hard on over bubble bursting articles? People that start these threads think they were so smart over the last few years to predict a slow down or in their words a "Bubble Burst". Wow you must be a genius, cause we all thought it would last forever.
Is this supposed to be a told you so thread? What is the point? Are you a bitter renter who can't afford the home you want? Have you been watching and reading the how to buy homes with no money down books?
I have never understood why some people get soo excited about these articles. Do you live a dark,sad life and like to see people lose value on their homes and go into foreclosure?
YOu must have one of those adjustable rate differed interest paymnt thingymajig dealios by your post and are bitter about it becasue you didn't evaluate it correctly. However, I may be WAY off base here!
Noone likes to see someone lose what they have worked so hard to get. It's actually a very sad thing and I am not looking foreard to what is laying ahead in the next 1-2 years.
Just my opinion though

[locogringo]

CDOG, that post you added on page two sounds like a Board of Realtors posting.
Alot of the homes that are now not on the market (which is why there s a seemingly decline) is because they have become expired and they don't want to relist or are fed up with the scenario. Also, the FSBO's are going up also because the owners don't have any equity to pay Realtor's fees (in their thinking that is).
All I can say is that in 2007, there will be over a TRILLION dollars of adjustable rate mortgages becoming due. Should be interesting what will happen then and how many active homes for sale, etc.

[cdog]

CDOG, that post you added on page two sounds like a Board of Realtors posting.
Alot of the homes that are now not on the market (which is why there s a seemingly decline) is because they have become expired and they don't want to relist or are fed up with the scenario. Also, the FSBO's are going up also because the owners don't have any equity to pay Realtor's fees (in their thinking that is).
All I can say is that in 2007, there will be over a TRILLION dollars of adjustable rate mortgages becoming due. Should be interesting what will happen then and how many active homes for sale, etc.
Yep! It's from the owner of my company. He runs one of the most successful and profitable brokerage in CA. While it was slightly optimistic it also speaks the truth. The sky is not falling but for some the Shit will hit the fan. Such is capitalism. But people still need a place to live and will continue to buy homes. Here in OC FSBO's are going nowhere. Jokers...And the Help U smells and I'll do it for free guy's are hurting. This year we had a large group of people putting their home up for sale just to see if they can get some ridiculous price. They just wasted everyone’s time.
I’m having my best year yet! :)

[racincraft440]

My opinion is that anyone who got an "ARM" type mortgage when fixed rate mortgages were the lowest in 20+ years was overbuying to begin with. Interest rates were ONLY going to go up and they were living on borrowed time. It's just that simple.
I have 12 years left on a fixed rate loan. No worries, no boat/car payments either. :)
As mentioned, it's just switched back to a buyers market for a while.

[kanedog]

the market is fantastic?????????????????for buyers or sellers?

[NashvilleBound]

I do love these RE threads.......
RE agents in general, are, in my opinion, wastes of skin. Most got into a market that sucked them in due to the volume. We'll see where they end up when times "adjust". I know very few that do anything more than whine about not making enough money. PAH-LEASE. 99% just throw the home on the MLS and thats it. Lazy....well....I dont want to get all worked up and possibly hurt someones feelings. On the other hand, some are very conscientious and actually answer their phones. Imagine that huh? Maybe advertise or hold an open house??? Naaaaaaaa..... :rollside:
As one of the posters here stated "all commissions are negotiable". But I dont think I have ever heard one volunteer that info......(few exceptions). Getting 3% of a home in CA is great....if someone is willing to pay that rediculous commission then they should get it. Seller/buyer are happy then alls well. Taking 5 or 6% on a double ended deal.... PURE GREED. But it is only business and if that is what was agreed on then so be it. All I can say to that is buyer/seller beware of an agent like that.
Our market here has softend slightly tho we are past our high season. Our prices have not come down at all.... not selling as fast in the $400+ market, but that will change next spring.
I really feel sorry for the people that some dumb ass idiot loan person swayed into one of the non conventional loans. Those loan people are MORONS and the agents that reccommend them should be barred from RE. If you can't afford the home with a regular loan the its too much for you. Do your homework people. These agents and loan officers, in general, do not care about the long term effects this will have on you. They are making BANK on closing deals.
Should I go on............. :) :) :)

[Sherpa]

I'm not scared........... yet. Since my 15yr mort @ 6 3/8% is in it's 10th year, and I'm about 4 years from full payoff (always paid extra principal)
even if I lost my job I'd be ok.
not withstanding, I have a freind who made a "spot-decision" to restart her
life and move to Carson City from Laguna Niguel..... she so far is having a
hard time selling her 3 bedroom townhouse..... imagine that..... worst year
for condo/townhome sales in like 20 years........
--Sherpa

[al cole'holic]

...wow, NashvilleBound you must have had some experience with the wrong agent at some point!
As far as the rest of your post.... :rolleyes:

[NashvilleBound]

...wow, NashvilleBound you must have had some experience with the wrong agent at some point!
As far as the rest of your post.... :rolleyes:
I am actually own a development company and a RE company just so you know for the purposes of this thread. I see it everyday. It's nauseating to see a loan person add 4 points to a loan just for the hell of it cause they can and the uneducated borrower will have no clue or think its "normal". Or an agent who never answers their phone to demand 5% cause they are the only agent (listing) and someone happened to drive by and call on the sign..... just to list two examples. I would like to think that the people I work with try be the example setters.(customer service) With the feedback I do get I think its working. I think a long time ago when housing was a little more realistic (CA for example) the percent system for the industry was a good idea. I would like to see a step system or at least an updated system integrated for the RE marketplace. Will it happen, most likely not. Do I care, not really.
Just stirring the pot here........ :argue: :rolleyes:

[DCBDaytona]

I do love these RE threads.......
RE agents in general, are, in my opinion, wastes of skin. Most got into a market that sucked them in due to the volume. We'll see where they end up when times "adjust". I know very few that do anything more than whine about not making enough money. PAH-LEASE. 99% just throw the home on the MLS and thats it. Lazy....well....I dont want to get all worked up and possibly hurt someones feelings. On the other hand, some are very conscientious and actually answer their phones. Imagine that huh? Maybe advertise or hold an open house??? Naaaaaaaa..... :rollside:
As one of the posters here stated "all commissions are negotiable". But I dont think I have ever heard one volunteer that info......(few exceptions). Getting 3% of a home in CA is great....if someone is willing to pay that rediculous commission then they should get it. Seller/buyer are happy then alls well. Taking 5 or 6% on a double ended deal.... PURE GREED. But it is only business and if that is what was agreed on then so be it. All I can say to that is buyer/seller beware of an agent like that.
Our market here has softend slightly tho we are past our high season. Our prices have not come down at all.... not selling as fast in the $400+ market, but that will change next spring.
I really feel sorry for the people that some dumb ass idiot loan person swayed into one of the non conventional loans. Those loan people are MORONS and the agents that reccommend them should be barred from RE. If you can't afford the home with a regular loan the its too much for you. Do your homework people. These agents and loan officers, in general, do not care about the long term effects this will have on you. They are making BANK on closing deals.
Should I go on............. :) :) :)
WOW...I see somebody has a similar opinion to mine. :crossx:

[callbob4homes]

Since I feel most of what your rant stated does not apply to me, I don't really take exception to what you said NB. I do however get a kick out of people always saying "What I make, I earn and deserve, you get paid way too much for what you do" :rolleyes:

[al cole'holic]

I am actually own a development company and a RE company just so you know for the purposes of this thread. I see it everyday. It's nauseating to see a loan person add 4 points to a loan just for the hell of it cause they can and the uneducated borrower will have no clue or think its "normal". Or an agent who never answers their phone to demand 5% cause they are the only agent (listing) and someone happened to drive by and call on the sign..... just to list two examples. I would like to think that the people I work with try be the example setters.(customer service) With the feedback I do get I think its working. I think a long time ago when housing was a little more realistic (CA for example) the percent system for the industry was a good idea. I would like to see a step system or at least an updated system integrated for the RE marketplace. Will it happen, most likely not. Do I care, not really.
Just stirring the pot here........ :argue: :rolleyes:
I too despise any loan officers that add anything onto a loan..hell, the ones I deal with on a regular basis make nothing on top and only on the back end!
Stirring the pot is one thing, I like doing it myself...but to say any one putting someone in anything other than what you think is conventional ain't your place to do..

[NashvilleBound]

Since I feel most of what your rant stated does not apply to me, I don't really take exception to what you said NB. I do however get a kick out of people always saying "What I make, I earn and deserve, you get paid way too much for what you do" :rolleyes:
Just to be clear I don't "rant". I was not directing any of it towards you, tho I did quote you about percentages. I laugh as well when I hear the same statements from people. It doesn't matter wht industry your in. You can't "Get paid too much for what you do" when people are willing to pay it. It's called free enterprise....and good business on occasion ;) It's what makes the world go 'round.

[NashvilleBound]

I too despise any loan officers that add anything onto a loan..hell, the ones I deal with on a regular basis make nothing on top and only on the back end!
Stirring the pot is one thing, I like doing it myself...but to say any one putting someone in anything other than what you think is conventional ain't your place to do..
Well it IS just my opinion. Maybe I am too old school. But I, as well as my wife, truely look out for each customer like they were a family member.

[al cole'holic]

Well it IS just my opinion. Maybe I am too old school. But I, as well as my wife, truely look out for each customer like they were a family member.
...if you looked out for your customers like they were family I guess you wouldn't charge a dime for your services, and kick back all your commissions to them right...??

[NashvilleBound]

...if you looked out for your customers like they were family I guess you wouldn't charge a dime for your services, and kick back all your commissions to them right...??
Kickbacks are illegal. But Home Depot Gift Cards are a great way to surprise people. We cut our commissions all the time......every different sale is different set of circumstances. You cant do it all the time you would hurt the industry and I do have a business to keep up and running.

[al cole'holic]

Kickbacks are illegal. But Home Depot Gift Cards are a great way to surprise people. We cut our commissions all the time......every different sale is different set of circumstances. You cant do it all the time you would hurt the industry and I do have a business to keep up and running.
...wow, you can afford to give out Home Depot cards after the tiny commissions you charge on those measly $400k home prices there? :)

[NashvilleBound]

...wow, you can afford to give out Home Depot cards after the tiny commissions you charge on those measly $400k home prices there? :)
LOL...I KNEW I should have been more specific!! LOl.... :rolleyes: ie...the last sale to my wifes cousin... she received enough in certificates to buy all new appliances in the kitchen.

[al cole'holic]

LOL...I KNEW I should have been more specific!! LOl.... :rolleyes: ie...the last sale to my wifes cousin... she received enough in certificates to buy all new appliances in the kitchen.
..blender, toaster, and coffee pot??

[cdog]

Just to be clear I don't "rant". I was not directing any of it towards you, tho I did quote you about percentages. I laugh as well when I hear the same statements from people. It doesn't matter wht industry your in. You can't "Get paid too much for what you do" when people are willing to pay it. It's called free enterprise....and good business on occasion ;) It's what makes the world go 'round.
NB, your statements are pretty lame. It's like me saying all guys’ who drive vipers have a popcorn shrimp for a wiener. If you don't have a SCCA lic. You have no biz. Or even the correct training to drive a car like that. It's a free market. Commissions are negotiable. Actually the idiots that will sell a home for abnormally cheap over all are the ones you have to worry about. They usually are less educated. I know millionaire agents that thru the last cycle the charge 7%. That guy kicks ass. And if you have to bitch about it.....You can't afford him or his SERVICES. Sort of like when you bought that 100K car or a DCB.
Please, no more blanket statements. At least be fair and say half a not worth their salt.
The two greatest factors are supply and demand. And what the market will bear.
Now I have to go. The Italian grand prix is on speed channel.

[bigq]

LOL...I KNEW I should have been more specific!! LOl.... :rolleyes: ie...the last sale to my wifes cousin... she received enough in certificates to buy all new appliances in the kitchen.
uh... can you do business in CA... :rollside:

[al cole'holic]

uh... can you do business in CA... :rollside:
..is that all it will take?? :boxed:

[SHOTKALLIN]

My 30 year is fixed at 5.75%. Now it the time to start buying rentals. The moment I have been waiting for. Who wants to take a 100k below asking price? :D

[bigq]

..is that all it will take?? :boxed:
I wish :)
Maybe that and about a 40% drop in prices. Unfortunately I can only be comfortable with about 300k house and for some reason ...there are none.

[al cole'holic]

I wish :)
Maybe that and about a 40% drop in prices. Unfortunately I can only be comfortable with about 300k house and for some reason ...there are none.
...buy a rental...I came across a sick one in CatCity, 2 bedroom condo all saweet inside done very nicely for $220k. BTW I took in a renter on one of mine last week for $8700 Jan-Apr 1st in the same complex. You gotta think about it, if you can't buy something here to live in at least buy something that will be an investment elsewhere :)

[NashvilleBound]

NB, your statements are pretty lame. It's like me saying all guys’ who drive vipers have a popcorn shrimp for a wiener. If you don't have a SCCA lic. You have no biz. Or even the correct training to drive a car like that. It's a free market. Commissions are negotiable. Actually the idiots that will sell a home for abnormally cheap over all are the ones you have to worry about. They usually are less educated. I know millionaire agents that thru the last cycle the charge 7%. That guy kicks ass. And if you have to bitch about it.....You can't afford him or his SERVICES. Sort of like when you bought that 100K car or a DCB.
Please, no more blanket statements. At least be fair and say half a not worth their salt.
The two greatest factors are supply and demand. And what the market will bear.
Now I have to go. The Italian grand prix is on speed channel.
I dont know slim.... I think my statements are pretty fair. I never said "everyone" or "all of them". At least I dont think I did.....I'll go back and check it out. It certainly would not be fair to accuse everyone when its only like 50% :rolleyes: I thought my last statement, the one you quoted, was a pretty good disclaimer to narrow mindedness.
(after re-checking)Ok, so this morning I was a bit overly aggressive.....my appologies. I will stick with the 50% gig for now...... :)

[UpRiver]

Memo to Mister Used House Sales Person: Stop being so full of yourself !!! It is only because of (according to pimpmyself.....errr.... callbob4homes) uneducated, "dipshit" folks (like me) that you have a commission job in the first place. You sell used homes. You're not doing anything more or less then that. If you think you are building space shuttles or performing brain sergury then you are seriously messed up. Do your job and make your money and go have a nice life. :cry:

[Kachina 34]

Real estate agents are like attorneys, the world would be better off without them.

[locogringo]

Memo to Mister Used House Sales Person: Stop being so full of yourself !!! It is only because of (according to pimpmyself.....errr.... callbob4homes) uneducated, "dipshit" folks (like me) that you have a commission job in the first place. You sell used homes. You're not doing anything more or less then that. If you think you are building space shuttles or performing brain sergury then you are seriously messed up. Do your job and make your money and go have a nice life. :cry:
I think you should tell all of us here how you REALLY feel because your comments were a little vague.
lol

[3 daytona`s]

I still can't understand how the RE co's charge a flat 5-7% on the whole transaction in the US. Here they charge 5-7% on the first 100,000 and 3% on the balance.
Because they can, and people don`t question the fees just wan`t to sell.Get out and start over not thinking how much giving away

[al cole'holic]

...where does this 5%-7% flat rate come from??
You can get your house listed for 1%, good luck with that by the way...you do get what you pay for and most people don't realize they still need to pay the broker on the other side the 2.5% until it's too late. Service, marketing, MLS services, open houses....depends on whats important to you when you go to sell the largest investment most people buy/sell in their life :)
Commissions are usually negotiated and adjusted for every situation to make the best for everyone involved..

[cdog]

I dont know slim.... I think my statements are pretty fair. I never said "everyone" or "all of them". At least I dont think I did.....I'll go back and check it out. It certainly would not be fair to accuse everyone when its only like 50% :rolleyes: I thought my last statement, the one you quoted, was a pretty good disclaimer to narrow mindedness.
(after re-checking)Ok, so this morning I was a bit overly aggressive.....my appologies. I will stick with the 50% gig for now...... :)
Right on just havin some fun. :)

[Jeanyus]

The housing bubble has burst, the sky is falling, the sky is falling.(sarcasm)
OK housing sales have dropped 28% in northern Ca. If you want to sell a house in todays market you have to lower the price. This year prices of housing went up 5% instead of 15%, big bubble burst. Keep looking for cheap prices on forclosed houses, while you are waiting for hell to freeze over.
Famous last words "I was waiting for the prices to come down" your probably waiting for the price of gas to go back to $1.00.
It's a buyers market, but if people can't get what they want for a house, they wont sell.
By the way buyers set the housing prices, and from what I can tell they are starting to get tired of waiting. This BUBBLE BURST wont last long.

[Kilrtoy]

The housing bubble has burst, the sky is falling, the sky is falling.(sarcasm)
OK housing sales have dropped 28% in northern Ca. If you want to sell a house in todays market you have to lower the price. This year prices of housing went up 5% instead of 15%, big bubble burst. Keep looking for cheap prices on forclosed houses, while you are waiting for hell to freeze over.
Famous last words "I was waiting for the prices to come down" your probably waiting for the price of gas to go back to $1.00.
It's a buyers market, but if people can't get what they want for a house, they wont sell.
By the way buyers set the housing prices, and from what I can tell they are starting to get tired of waiting. This BUBBLE BURST wont last long.
I want what he is smoking , CUZ THAT IS SOME DAMN GOOD SHIT :boxed:
the whole economy is tanking, WHAT PANET ARE YOU ON

[doesitfloat?]

I want what he is smoking , CUZ THAT IS SOME DAMN GOOD SHIT :boxed:
the whole economy is tanking, WHAT PANET ARE YOU ON
I agree...pass the bong!
Reminds me of the police cadet in Animal House screaming, "Please keep calm...All is well, All is well" while EVERYTHING is falling apart around him.

[Jeanyus]

I want what he is smoking , CUZ THAT IS SOME DAMN GOOD SHIT :boxed:
the whole economy is tanking, WHAT PANET ARE YOU ON
The sky is falling.
Here's a few tips.
Don't take diet and exercise advice from a fat person.
Don't take financial advice from a poor person.
Don't take advice on the economy, and real estate from cops.

[callbob4homes]

Memo to Mister Used House Sales Person: Stop being so full of yourself !!! It is only because of (according to pimpmyself.....errr.... callbob4homes) uneducated, "dipshit" folks (like me) that you have a commission job in the first place. You sell used homes. You're not doing anything more or less then that. If you think you are building space shuttles or performing brain sergury then you are seriously messed up. Do your job and make your money and go have a nice life. :cry:
I also sell new ones :p
I would get a refund on that brain sergury, it didn't work :rollside:
Maybe I should get a job just like you have, so I too can be respectable. You do work don't you? Own your own home? That kind of working people kind of stuff? Obviously not overpaid though :rolleyes:

[callbob4homes]

and just a little bit of a dipshit thought here myself...............................
Not all folks need a RE agent
Not everyone needs a certified auto mechanic
Not everyone needs a lawyer.........................
But who do we call when we get ourselves in over our heads?
yeppur, me too. :cool:

[soupersonic]

the whole economy is tanking, WHAT PANET ARE YOU ON
Have another doughnut :) All the chicken little's out there should get out of the market and stay out. You dont make money on the sale you make it on the buy.Its a buyers market again. Anyone who is over their head and losing there home due to some creative financing probably should have "calledbob" because he would have pointed them in the right direction instead of taking advantage of the situation. Anyone who is waiting for deals on foreclosures,good luck with that. Let me see.. they bought at a high point,more is owed than its worth,sounds like a bargain :rolleyes:
Anyone who is not liquid at this point is probably kicking themselves,taking hits to sell something isnt what anyone wants to do,but paying top dollar or above for something because you have to isnt any fun either.Good luck with your RE ventures. Remember to call an expert before you get in over your head,not after.

[FREIND OF AA AND TA]

I knew this would happen, always does!!
I will shut up and take the RE bashing comments. I can't help that 98% of all agents are fing morons!!
Thank God I have been lucky enough for 16 years to keep getting past customers calling me back.
I had a smart guy once tell me that he likes paying me for what I know not what I do.
Sometimes when you help people and they know you care they like to pay you for it.

[HocusPocus]

bursting or not, we just got back from havi on sunday and i couldn't believe all the for sale signs out there. i hate to see anyone loose their toys, or a home because they got in way over their heads. my havi house i have had for 18 years and my cali house for 10, they are not big with lots of upgrades but the payments on both are less then some are paying for their truck payments. i can't tell you how tempted i have been to pull money out and go boat shopping or upgrade to a newer nicer house, but i knew it wasn't a good idea. now im really glad i kept my head.

[Havasu Cig]

bursting or not, we just got back from havi on sunday and i couldn't believe all the for sale signs out there. i hate to see anyone loose their toys, or a home because they got in way over their heads. my havi house i have had for 18 years and my cali house for 10, they are not big with lots of upgrades but the payments on both are less then some are paying for their truck payments. i can't tell you how tempted i have been to pull money out and go boat shopping or upgrade to a newer nicer house, but i knew it wasn't a good idea. now im really glad i kept my head.
I hope the market will thin the crowds out there. I used to like being able to launch at 11:00 am and not wait in line. I also want to pick up another place out there when people are really starting to feel it.

[cjordan]

I wonder how many people who own 2nd homes have put a pencil to how much their "investment" is costing them? OK, now run the numbers at zero appreciation...how much is it costing now? How many times have you heard, "but I can always sell it for what I've got in it..." Really, have you tried to sell it yet?......Now what is it REALLY costing when you take into account interest, property tax, maitenance, fees, insurance, real estate commissions, etc, etc? Now, how many nights per yr are you spending there? Some people might be surprised how much their "investment" is costing them and would be better off to go stay at a $500.00/night Ritz....

[Havasu Cig]

I wonder how many people who own 2nd homes have put a pencil to how much their "investment" is costing them? OK, now run the numbers at zero appreciation...how much is it costing now? How many times have you heard, "but I can always sell it for what I've got in it..." Really, have you tried to sell it yet?......Now what is it REALLY costing when you take into account interest, property tax, maitenance, fees, insurance, real estate commissions, etc, etc? Now, how many nights per yr are you spending there? Some people might be surprised how much their "investment" is costing them and would be better off to go stay at a $500.00/night Ritz....
I have had this same conversation with people in the past when they tell me how much better real estate is than stocks or other investments. We have a diverse portfolio, and when looking at real estate investments you need to factor in ALL the costs.

[cjordan]

Most people are pretty amazed......for true "investment" property they need to look at Commerical Real Estate...but even that is getting really stupid in some parts at sub 5 caps.....It will all work its way out though...it always does.

[Havasu Cig]

Most of the people I know in my parents age range 50's-60's have converted alll their real estate investments to commercial properties. One guy that has made a lot of money over the years says the residential market is just to volitile for him.

[NautiTwins]

Most of the people I know in my parents age range 50's-60's have converted alll their real estate investments to commercial properties. One guy that has made a lot of money over the years says the residential market is just to volitile for him.
Wow that's a statement.

[FREIND OF AA AND TA]

I wonder how many people who own 2nd homes have put a pencil to how much their "investment" is costing them? OK, now run the numbers at zero appreciation...how much is it costing now? How many times have you heard, "but I can always sell it for what I've got in it..." Really, have you tried to sell it yet?......Now what is it REALLY costing when you take into account interest, property tax, maitenance, fees, insurance, real estate commissions, etc, etc? Now, how many nights per yr are you spending there? Some people might be surprised how much their "investment" is costing them and would be better off to go stay at a $500.00/night Ritz....
Wise man!! A 2nd home is a liability and hopefully the rental is an asset.
If you don't use it enough let the positive cash flow if any pay for your Ritz bill.

[al cole'holic]

...residential market is too volitile...??...wtf...?? He must not live on the planet :)

[doesitfloat?]

I wonder how many people who own 2nd homes have put a pencil to how much their "investment" is costing them? OK, now run the numbers at zero appreciation...how much is it costing now? How many times have you heard, "but I can always sell it for what I've got in it..." Really, have you tried to sell it yet?......Now what is it REALLY costing when you take into account interest, property tax, maitenance, fees, insurance, real estate commissions, etc, etc? Now, how many nights per yr are you spending there? Some people might be surprised how much their "investment" is costing them and would be better off to go stay at a $500.00/night Ritz....
Good post. I agree and the same can be said for boat ownership. I've come to realize that I'd be $1,000's (probably $10,000's) ahead if I just rented a Bayliner at the marina everytime I wanted to go skiing.

[FREIND OF AA AND TA]

Good post. I agree and the same can be said for boat ownership. I've come to realize that I'd be $1,000's (probably $10,000's) ahead if I just rented a Bayliner at the marina everytime I wanted to go skiing.
SSSSHHHHHH!!! We are all guilty of that!

[SHOTKALLIN]

If I had to sell a home today I would go Help U Sell and offer the the buyers realtor 4%. Todays market is dead although there are some buyers out there.

[cjordan]

Most of the people I know in my parents age range 50's-60's have converted alll their real estate investments to commercial properties.
Very true, and a lot of people are converting their commercial property to CASH right now and not even bothering with a 1031 exchange due to the tax rates being so favorable...why sell something and turn around and potentially buy something else that's overvalued (IE: 5-6cap) just to save on the taxes? In some markets you are using up all of your "tax savings" by paying it right back in a premium purchase price....

[That Guy]

It will all work its way out though...it always does.
The smartest comment in this entire thread...the sky is not falling, the economy is not tanking and as cjordan says...in the long run, it will be ok. If you can't stand some adjustment periods when investing in RE it is very difficult to stay in the game. People just need to understand that you can't realize 20% and 30% gains year over year. Eventually, things will adjust and historically, then climb again. Just my .02.....

[djunkie]

Can I buy a house now or should I wait longer? Afterall it sounds like all of you know exactly where the market is going. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[cdog]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/197976726671-L.jpg

[doesitfloat?]

If I had to sell a home today I would go Help U Sell and offer the the buyers realtor 4%. Todays market is dead although there are some buyers out there.
Not me. IMHO, Help u sell is generally good for sellers' markets only. I sold 2 homes this way and would use them again. But the "legit" realtors wouldn't show my house to anyone (even had a few tell me that) because it was a Help-U-Sell house. Most agents despise HUS homes as they see them undercutting their profit/industry. I even met a couple who eventually came through my house on their own after their agent lied to them and told them innacuracies about my house.
But it didn't matter because it was a sellers market and eager buyers were coming through the door anyway.
In a buyers market where there's a million homes on the market, signs everywhere, etc. you NEED agents directing clients toward your property. To me, a Help-U sell property in this market (regardless of 4%), is at a disadvantage.

[AirtimeLavey]

Not me. IMHO, Help u sell is generally good for sellers' markets only. I sold 2 homes this way and would use them again. But the "legit" realtors wouldn't show my house to anyone (even had a few tell me that) because it was a Help-U-Sell house. Most agents despise HUS homes as they see them undercutting their profit/industry. I even met a couple who eventually came through my house on their own after their agent lied to them and told them innacuracies about my house.
But it didn't matter because it was a sellers market and eager buyers were coming through the door anyway.
In a buyers market where there's a million homes on the market, signs everywhere, etc. you NEED agents directing clients toward your property. To me, a Help-U sell property in this market (regardless of 4%), is at a disadvantage.
Good observations. Ashame you got no realtors to show your home in your HUS deal. I will show a house if it meets my buyers needs/wants, regardless of the commission offered. Because that's my job. It's about my clients, and usually, they don't put the listing agency as a perameter. Can't say though, that industry wide, it doesn't have an impact.
I've had a lot of complaints lately about the low cost listing services. People don't realize it takes more in today's environment to sell a house. They usually figure that out after a few months of sitting on the market. Cheap listing = little service. It's a person's most valuable asset, yet some think it's wise to cut corners. :idea:

[FREIND OF AA AND TA]

Not me. IMHO, Help u sell is generally good for sellers' markets only. I sold 2 homes this way and would use them again. But the "legit" realtors wouldn't show my house to anyone (even had a few tell me that) because it was a Help-U-Sell house. Most agents despise HUS homes as they see them undercutting their profit/industry. I even met a couple who eventually came through my house on their own after their agent lied to them and told them innacuracies about my house.
But it didn't matter because it was a sellers market and eager buyers were coming through the door anyway.
In a buyers market where there's a million homes on the market, signs everywhere, etc. you NEED agents directing clients toward your property. To me, a Help-U sell property in this market (regardless of 4%), is at a disadvantage.
Sad but true in most cases. Don't forget these slime ball HUS agents really just want the calls from buyers so they can take them to my listings to get 3% It's better to find a good agent with a good rep to sell it for less. Even I would take 4% listings in a sellers market because I could spend a lot less$$ in advertising. You still need a pro to get you through escrow not to mention negotiating skills. Like it or not I can out negotiate anyone in RE. It's just because I have thousands of sales under my belt and know tricks most have never even thought of. I would not perform a surgery on a myself because I want to save money. I would gladly pay the right Dr for the job. Sounds funny but so true. Many people get lucky but most don't. I have seen more people in court and loose money because they thought they were doing the right thing.

[NautiTwins]

Sad but true in most cases. Don't forget these slime ball HUS agents really just want the calls from buyers so they can take them to my listings to get 3% It's better to find a good agent with a good rep to sell it for less. Even I would take 4% listings in a sellers market because I could spend a lot less$$ in advertising. You still need a pro to get you through escrow not to mention negotiating skills. Like it or not I can out negotiate anyone in RE. It's just because I have thousands of sales under my belt and know tricks most have never even thought of. I would not perform a surgery on a myself because I want to save money. I would gladly pay the right Dr for the job. Sounds funny but so true. Many people get lucky but most don't. I have seen more people in court and loose money because they thought they were doing the right thing.
I have had a real problem seeing what a realtor really gets paid to do. The conversation between friends and co-workers usually ends up with a couple of open houses and a sign in the front yard that they pay someone to do. I think that the buyers agent should get paid more then the seller. If you think about what you do to list a house vs. drive someone around for a month, it would see more expensive to show people 30 homes, then sit around on an open house.
One more point and this is just my opinon and not knocking the profession or trying to single one agent out from another, but what do realtors do to bring people to my listing? An example, A neighbor across the street is selling his home. It has been on the market for 3 months and is a pretty nice house in a popular range of price. I work outside mainly on the weekends and for the last three weeks they have been having an open house, very few people show up.
So that begs the question, how is the realtor going to bring people to see my house. From the looks of it, they rely solely on other realtors to show thier clients my house.
So in summation. The seller gets a sign and a nice glossy ad in a couple of papers in hopes that other realtors will show that one house to thier clients.
Remember, this is just my perception!
And just as a side note. I completely agree with paying a professional that is trained and has experience in a given field. I truely just do not see the point in paying someone $50,000 to get a glossy and a sign. I can get a real estate lawyer to do the negotiating for $2000 and he is going to be better then a realtor who is supposed to be a pro at homes, not the law surrounding the investment.
Again, just my .02!

[callbob4homes]

ok, here is the "inside" look at HUS, Assist to sell, or any other shall we say. "low cost" alternatives. First of all, it will not go into the MLS without offering some kind of compensation to a buyers agent. The MLS effectively hires every agent that belongs to that association and even some that don't because they can still search listings as can you. There is nothing wrong with these type of listings. Whatever works for you. If that home is the perfect match for my client, I will #1, ask their agent if they are willing to compensate me, #2, ask the client if they are willing to compensate me (and this is where a buyer broker agreement comes in) or lastly, if this is the dream home for them, I will help them through the process because that is my job. Period. It is called referral networking. They will tell their friends who really helped them= another sale down the road. or if they decide to sell later. Now...the other part. You get what you pay for. A HUS bare bones listing (in my area anyway) is 2995.00. Fine print? Under 200K and it is not in MLS and you show the house, you spill your guts to an educated buyer looking for your motivation, and then only then does the bare bones guy come in and maybe help you negotiate your price and do the paperwork for you. You get a sign in your yard and advertisement in that particular companies ad only. There is a company over here that advertises 1% listings. OK, but YOU have to pay the other agents commission if this company doesn't sell it. Again, probably 3%. So is it really one percent? Is it really just 2995? Do the math. In a slow market, you need all the exposure you can get if you want to sell. In my area alone that means somewhere around 18K agents! Bottom line is, if you don't have to sell, don't put it on the market, the long days on market scares some buyers off. If you have to sell for whatever reason, do the homework or call an agent to research the market for you. (it is free) Listen to what they say or call a different agent in a different office and get a second opinion. Lots of new agents will take any listing at any price because they haven't yet figured out that there is no payday until the sale closes. Sellers always get pissed at these agents because they have no activity on their home. and they call another agent that is hungry for a listing and do the same overpriced dealio again. same result. 98% of the time a house does not sell is because of price. It is not worth what you think it is, it is worth what a buyer will pay for it.
Lot of good info on this subject here and I have to agree that there are a lot of scumbags in this line of work along with a lot of newbies that haven't learned the biz yet (or ever for some). I have had quite a few peeps on this board either email me or call me regarding buying or selling and I don't make a dime off of info. I have also sold some really nice homes to some board members that were happy with the service and the deal the got. I got accused of pimping myself. OK, that is good by me. I also have a hands on breast exam dealio I would like to get started too, but I don't get paid for that either. :p :cry:
Hope some of this stuff helps some people, some just won't get it anyway :rollside:

[Ion]

I want what he is smoking , CUZ THAT IS SOME DAMN GOOD SHIT :boxed:
the whole economy is tanking, WHAT PANET ARE YOU ON
Now who is smoking what? Here is a link to a dow chart for the last 2 years: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=%5EDJI&t=2y Looks like a pretty steady rise to me.
And...what is a "PANET"?

[FREIND OF AA AND TA]

I have had a real problem seeing what a realtor really gets paid to do. The conversation between friends and co-workers usually ends up with a couple of open houses and a sign in the front yard that they pay someone to do. I think that the buyers agent should get paid more then the seller. If you think about what you do to list a house vs. drive someone around for a month, it would see more expensive to show people 30 homes, then sit around on an open house.
One more point and this is just my opinon and not knocking the profession or trying to single one agent out from another, but what do realtors do to bring people to my listing? An example, A neighbor across the street is selling his home. It has been on the market for 3 months and is a pretty nice house in a popular range of price. I work outside mainly on the weekends and for the last three weeks they have been having an open house, very few people show up.
So that begs the question, how is the realtor going to bring people to see my house. From the looks of it, they rely solely on other realtors to show thier clients my house.
So in summation. The seller gets a sign and a nice glossy ad in a couple of papers in hopes that other realtors will show that one house to thier clients.
Remember, this is just my perception!
It would take way too long to explain the whole thing to you so I will make it simple.
Back to the Dr example.
You pay $5000 for the surgery
You think that but what you are really paying for is years of experience, knowledge, schooling, overhead, contacts, trade shows, knifes, electricity,etc.......
Like I said before, Sometimes we get paid for what we know not what we do.
Perfect example, I had a client the other day talk about this great loan that he was getting. After listening I turned him on to my lender that saved him 6 grand up front, $350 a month and got rid of a 3 year prepay. Here is the kicker. I was able to sell him a different house than the one he just had to have. ( It was over priced) I found him another house that was not even on the market for 50 grand less, plus a pool, on a cul-de-sac, with a fing view, with more upgrades.
If I still dont derserve 3% let me know!!!
Want the real kicker kicker? Because of a contact I made 10 years ago this all happened.
kicker kicker kicker! The better house was also a client of mine. They found another house through me that they had to have the next day. It had multiple offers on it and they would have lost it if the other agent was not a friend of mine that I helped train a few years back.
Oh ya, we do a lot more when they are listed with us. I am sorry to let you know there are asses out there but what industry does not. Cops, Drs, Attourneys, ect........
Ask any of my clients if they think I am over paid and they will all tell you that when they see me at the Turltle, THEY BUY ME DRINKS!!!!!!
Sorry to rant and rave but I swear there are good ones out there that care! There are some out there that are worth every stinkin penny!!!
Yep I am one, can ya tell?
Oh ya, I made over 60 grand off that deal. They all know and are happy. I know what you are thinking. I really buy their drinks but they really do offer.
I love my job!!!
Oh ya again, of that 60 grand I should have made 90+ because of the goodness of my heart they all got discounts for being loyal good client that refer me to there friends and family so I can make another 60 grand. :rollside:

[FREIND OF AA AND TA]

Hey Nauti, if you think an attourney can negotiate RE better than me, You better be happy to pay me 6% to sell your house. Thats funny right there. Out of state they do it for a living but sure as hell not in So Cal. I walk all over those monkeys when they call me. I deal with them all over the country when I buy my rentals and what not. They suck trust me!!!!

[AirtimeLavey]

I have had a real problem seeing what a realtor really gets paid to do. The conversation between friends and co-workers usually ends up with a couple of open houses and a sign in the front yard that they pay someone to do. I think that the buyers agent should get paid more then the seller. If you think about what you do to list a house vs. drive someone around for a month, it would see more expensive to show people 30 homes, then sit around on an open house.
One more point and this is just my opinon and not knocking the profession or trying to single one agent out from another, but what do realtors do to bring people to my listing? An example, A neighbor across the street is selling his home. It has been on the market for 3 months and is a pretty nice house in a popular range of price. I work outside mainly on the weekends and for the last three weeks they have been having an open house, very few people show up.
So that begs the question, how is the realtor going to bring people to see my house. From the looks of it, they rely solely on other realtors to show thier clients my house.
So in summation. The seller gets a sign and a nice glossy ad in a couple of papers in hopes that other realtors will show that one house to thier clients.
Remember, this is just my perception!
And just as a side note. I completely agree with paying a professional that is trained and has experience in a given field. I truely just do not see the point in paying someone $50,000 to get a glossy and a sign. I can get a real estate lawyer to do the negotiating for $2000 and he is going to be better then a realtor who is supposed to be a pro at homes, not the law surrounding the investment.
Again, just my .02!
Unfortunate, but common perception of realtors. I've met a few wonderkins myself, and that is all they do. They're in every industry, and came into the business in droves over the last few years. Now, they really have to work for it. We'll see how long they last.
As for using an attorney...have you ever? Think you'll get the deal done for the original quote/retainer? Think you'll get the deal done in a timely manner? Think you'll ever reach him on the phone? Careful what you wish for. A good attorney, isn't necessarily a great negotiator, although you'd think so, wouldn't you. Think attorney's have their act together? I would say you haven't dealt with many. Besides, where you gonna get the glossy sign? :D
Guess we've strayed from the bub-bubble bursting topic. Ooops. :boxed:

[Jeanyus]

Can I buy a house now or should I wait longer? Afterall it sounds like all of you know exactly where the market is going. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Wait for prices to go down. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[SoCalOffshore]

As a financial advisor i have read most of these comments. Many are insightfull and very intelligent. i rarely comment on these financial threads as they are comsumed with diatribe. But, there are a couple of important ponts i will comment on.
1. RE agents are still paid via a commision. To be a true professional they must abandon this pay scale. They need to charge a fee or a sliding scale based upon sale price. Most do nothing but put it on MLS.
2. All assets are cyclical. they go up and then they go down in value. But, unlike most investmetns, RE is bought with leverage. its like buying a car on a lease and not knowing your payoff. you have to plan on your monthly cost to increase if your buying on an adjustable. there is nothing wrong with an adjustable mortgage if you know what you are doing or if your INCOME will increase faster than your cost to borrow.
3. boats, rv's rhino's are depreciating assets. in other words, they loose value. the more you "customize" them the more you loose in value. when you finance a depreciating asset you have to pay for the cost off the asset plus the finance charges and then the selling cost which will be less than your purchase cost. i have seen people selling boats, rhinos and the like for far less than they paid in only a few months of ownership.
4. there is actually a mathamatical formula for figuring out ones rate of return on an asset, usually know as the internal rate of return. this takes into consideration the cost to buy and sell, financing charges, the cost to carry and time value of money. this is an important concept as we have a risk free rate of return. this return is usually the 90 day t bill rate. in other words, we can invest our money with NO risk at this rate. i would suspect many of us would do far less in return than we could of if we take all these aspects into consideration.
5. there is NO simple answer in life. one needs to diversify. we must be able to carry our debt load. if you can not. you are over extended. remember leverage is great, but only when you can cover the cost to leverage in the bad times. most great real estate investment deals went bankrupt when they could not cover debt servie. in other words, they couldn't wait untill the market recovered.
6. obviously, RE prices are going to come down. no asset class can substain a 100% increase over such a short period of time. just ask all the people who bought tech stocks at the beginning of 2001, then factor in the leverage. we all purchased RE with leverage. no one carred about the selling price, all they carred about was the monthly cost. what prompted this radical increase? the cost to borrow!! it was and is artificial. now we are paying the piper.
7. RE unlike all assets has a USE value. in other words. you need a place to live. if you dont own your home you need to rent. this is an important concept. one needs to way the cost to rent vs. the cost to buy and vactor in the potential for appreciation. this does not apply to many people in many parts of the country. because they wont get the future appreciaton. yes!! many places in the country wont make money on their home. in fact, their home prices wont appreciate, or if they do, it will be very little.
8. i have missed many points and NO thread could answer them all. i have tried to shed some light on a very complex financial issue. i hope all future fiancial success to all who have posted. but, the world is changing and we all need to be liquid and flexible in our finances.
9. dont shoot the messinger. good luck to all.
:argue: :argue: :argue: :argue: :argue:

[djunkie]

Wait for prices to go down. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
My parents bought their house for $28k back in 1971. Do you think it will drop back down to that since the economy is in the toilet? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :crossx: :crossx:

[deltaAce]

May I over simplify my opinion,
Since most houses can sell themselves, you don't really need a RE agent to "talk" somebody into buying what they like. The necessary professional services of a Real Estate Attorney can be used to draw up the sales agreement & address the legalaties & such. That can be done for a fee that you can shop for. Just how rediculous an amount does it cost you in "commissions", to "sell" a $500K home. Do they (RE agent & broker) really provide $30K worth of services when the Smiths already love the Jones house? What negotiations are there, if the Smiths won't pay the comp ($500K) the Wilsons will! There's an abundance of RE agents who claim their industry as the sole necessity of "Bringing buyer & seller together". Many years ago most home RE agents were stay at home mothers that were able to suppliment the families income with a part time job. But so many greedy people jumped on the "gravy train" of effortless income, that there seems now to be a RE agent for every house for sale, seriously, have you seen all the adds, the man, the lady, the couple, the two ladies, all the smiling faces & slogans! They join every club, every organization in the effort to "network" their services, "and when your ready to sell....." We need the good passionate ones, at a reasonable rate! P.S. And if I hear one more investment jerk say, "flip that house"............................

[Jeanyus]

May I over simplify my opinion,
Since most houses can sell themselves, you don't really need a RE agent to "talk" somebody into buying what they like. The necessary professional services of a Real Estate Attorney can be used to draw up the sales agreement & address the legalaties & such. That can be done for a fee that you can shop for. Just how rediculous an amount does it cost you in "commissions", to "sell" a $500K home. Do they (RE agent & broker) really provide $30K worth of services when the Smiths already love the Jones house? What negotiations are there, if the Smiths won't pay the comp ($500K) the Wilsons will! There's an abundance of RE agents who claim their industry as the sole necessity of "Bringing buyer & seller together". Many years ago most home RE agents were stay at home mothers that were able to suppliment the families income with a part time job. But so many greedy people jumped on the "gravy train" of effortless income, that there seems now to be a RE agent for every house for sale, seriously, have you seen all the adds, the man, the lady, the couple, the two ladies, all the smiling faces & slogans! They join every club, every organization in the effort to "network" their services, "and when your ready to sell....." We need the good passionate ones, at a reasonable rate! P.S. And if I hear one more investment jerk say, "flip that house"............................
Spoken like a true idiot. Effortless income :rolleyes: :rolleyes: . If buy a house from someone for full market value and no real estate agents are involved,as a buyer I would expect a 6% drop in price, since no agents are being paid,why should I pay the same price as a house that sells and pays a comission. Is thier a single idiot out thier that thinks maybe the price of housing has a comission built in.
If you want to deal with a person at thier worst behavior, try buying or selling thier house. RE agents put up with a lot. If selling real estaste is effortless income, why arent you a RE agent.

[cjordan]

Real estate brokerage is one of the few industries where commission rates have not been slashed......you might get down to a 5% turn on 1MM+ homes. One of the many problems with the industry is the fact that the Realtors company(s) keep 2.5%-3% of the 5% in the above example for really doing nothing...I mean they provide an office for the realtors (which most good ones rarely use) paperwork, a propriatary web site, a a few other small things....I think giving the realtors company(s) ~50% of the total commission paid is a sham for providing very little. The agents do 99% of the work for in many cases less than 50% of the pay. Most people would have no problem paying say 3% for both sides of the transaction, maybe only 1/4% should go back to the "company" for what they provide.
I don't have the time to go into this in detail, but how the industry and particularly the MLS service get around price fixing and anti-trust issues is a bigger mystery than what happened to Jimmy Hoffa....The payoffs by the industry to lawmakers to look the other way on this issue are H U G E.

[callbob4homes]

May I over simplify my opinion,
Since most houses can sell themselves, you don't really need a RE agent to "talk" somebody into buying what they like. The necessary professional services of a Real Estate Attorney can be used to draw up the sales agreement & address the legalaties & such. That can be done for a fee that you can shop for. Just how rediculous an amount does it cost you in "commissions", to "sell" a $500K home. Do they (RE agent & broker) really provide $30K worth of services when the Smiths already love the Jones house? What negotiations are there, if the Smiths won't pay the comp ($500K) the Wilsons will! There's an abundance of RE agents who claim their industry as the sole necessity of "Bringing buyer & seller together". Many years ago most home RE agents were stay at home mothers that were able to suppliment the families income with a part time job. But so many greedy people jumped on the "gravy train" of effortless income, that there seems now to be a RE agent for every house for sale, seriously, have you seen all the adds, the man, the lady, the couple, the two ladies, all the smiling faces & slogans! They join every club, every organization in the effort to "network" their services, "and when your ready to sell....." We need the good passionate ones, at a reasonable rate! P.S. And if I hear one more investment jerk say, "flip that house"............................
Can I get a hit off that pipe? :rolleyes:

[doesitfloat?]

Spoken like a true idiot. Effortless income :rolleyes: :rolleyes: . If buy a house from someone for full market value and no real estate agents are involved,as a buyer I would expect a 6% drop in price, since no agents are being paid,why should I pay the same price as a house that sells and pays a comission. Is thier a single idiot out thier that thinks maybe the price of housing has a comission built in.
If you want to deal with a person at thier worst behavior, try buying or selling thier house. RE agents put up with a lot. If selling real estaste is effortless income, why arent you a RE agent.
Like almost every ***boat argument, the truth is somewhere in the middle. I agree with you, Jeanyus, that it isn't effortless. Especially in slow times, you can be showing a house for months or driving that indecisive couple around for months.
BUT, as a custom home builder, I will say this without any hesitation. RE's pay scale is way out of whack. I've seen/built way too many homes with months of true hard work (both physical and mental) dealing with the city, county, architects, subs, emotional owners, theft, vandalism, EPA, weather, etc to get a house to market. Then the house goes up for sale and is sold in 2 days and the RE makes damn near the same that I did for 7-8 months of work. Yes, I know there's behind the scenes work that we don't see but not $40,000 worth.
I'm not knocking ya for getting it, I'm knocking the fee scale itself. I've dealt with some successful (and wealthy) agents who were just flat out stupid (or, at the least, not very knowledgible). The crap that they were feeding their clients was flat out lies and I had to sit there and listen to it as they made a commision equal to my job profit (in a few days).
Nothing personal...RE's ARE needed in the industry. But the commision fee doesn't jive with the education, experience, or services provided.

[DCBDaytona]

This thread is getting good :crossx: :crossx: :crossx: :crossx: :crossx:
It appears that the smart RE agents are staying away from this, pretty smart if you ask me....

[AirtimeLavey]

The RE business is just capitalism and free enterprise. I think pro athletes are over paid, too. Some people think union/gov. workers are over compensated. Most RE professionals I know do slide their pay scale on the price of the home, but don't mistake them for those desperate ones who just under-cut and under-deliver as a business model. Kinda scary to think that you use a part time, wife/mother/Mr. Mom, to negotiate and arrange your largest single asset(s). To each their own. Good luck.
As for DCBGaytona's (j/k :wink: )comment,...ok, I'll take the bait....yep, it's just us dummies here contributing to the discussion. :rolleyes: Personally, I'd rather know how a person feels about issues relating to their profession, and that they have the confidence to stand up for their profession. I'd worry about the ones that stay in the background and are afraid to say anything, and don't contribute. (Having said that, there are one or two on this site that I respect, and they have not yet chimed in. No offense to them. :cool: )

[al cole'holic]

...I've said it so many times, "Buy something, anything for fock sakes if you don't own anything"...but this about sums it up :)
Arizona Real Estate Market Offers
Rare Windows of Opportunity for Savvy
Home Buyers and Sellers
By Bill Jilbert
( Coldwell Banker Residential Brokerage Arizona President and Chief Operating Officer)
A lot has been written lately about the cooling of our red-hot real estate market, both locally and across the country. It's hard to go a day without some news story suggesting the "bubble is about to burst" on the market, or the sky is falling, or something equally catastrophic. But what's missing in the avalanche of news coverage is the fact that while home sales have indeed slowed down, this current housing market offers a unique window of opportunity for savvy buyers and sellers to profit - a window that may not be open again for many years, if ever. For the first time in quite a while, the stars are all in alignment for consumers: mortgage interest rates are near their all-time low, prices have stabilized, there's a large selection of homes to pick from, and yet the prospects for long-term gains in the market remain strong. Certainly, it makes a more exciting news story to dwell on the negative, but for smart consumers it is definitely more economically advantageous to seize opportunities as they present themselves. And this market does indeed offer some tremendous opportunities. So who could benefit by this current market? You don't need to read any further unless you fall into one of these categories:
* First-time buyers trying to break into the market;
* Existing homeowners looking for a new home;
* Consumers looking to profit from investment property;
* People planning for retirement; and
* Almost anyone looking to increase their net worth.
If you're a first-time buyer who has been patiently sitting on the sidelines during the heyday of the seller's market, you couldn't find a better time to get into the game. Prices have finally stabilized even as mortgage rates remain low. Add to that a good supply of homes, and you've got a window of opportunity that you rarely see. With rents going up, first-time buyers may pay little more for a mortgage payment than they do for their apartment today after considering tax advantages. Because the pendulum has swung in favor of buyers, we're seeing more sellers offering concessions than we've had in years. In fact, nearly every contract we get these days includes seller concessions. It's not uncommon for homeowners several thousand dollars toward a buyer's closing costs. In other instances, sellers are offering to "buy down" the interest rate for buyers to make their home listing more attractive. The point is that there may never be a more affordable time to buy a home than now. If you wait for prices to fall, you could be in for a shock. But even if they do go down a little, the savings could be more than offset by higher interest rates and fewer seller concessions next year.
For investors, now may also be a good time to buy into the market. Those interested in building wealth may find some tempting sale prices on real estate. Savvy investors buy low (that's now) and then trade up when they can get a higher rate of return somewhere else. Real estate investors also understand that leveraging can earn them greater returns than they can get with other investments. If a $300,000 property increases 10% in value, or $30,000, that may actually translate to a 50% return on their investment if they put $60,000 down.
Those planning for retirement can also benefit by buying real estate now. Where would you be today if you had never purchased a home? Chances are your net worth would be a whole lot less than it is now. Now think where you'd be if 10 years ago you had purchased a couple of investment properties? Perhaps retired. By owning real estate as part of your retirement portfolio, most of your retirement can be funded by others. The tenant, tax advantages and appreciation over time can fund quite a nest egg. When you do cash out, capital gains rules offer a much lower tax rate than the tax you'll pay on your other retirement accounts. With proper planning, investing in real estate can be extremely effective in funding your retirement. Over the years, real estate has been one of the greatest wealth creators. Not a lot has changed today, except that prices have temporarily leveled off, creating an attractive buying opportunity. Interest rates, selection, favorable tax laws, loan programs and seller concessions make this the perfect time to invest.
So what about existing homeowners? There are opportunities for you as well, particularly if you are interested in moving up to a larger home. Sellers may get a little less than they were hoping for in this market, but the good news is that they can more than make up for it on the move-up home. If, for instance, your $400,000 home sells for 10% less, that's $40,000. But if you are able to buy that larger, $750,000 home for 10% less, that's a $75,000 savings. If you were to wait for your existing home to go back up to 400,000, the move up home will most likely go up proportionately, too. Despite reports to the contrary, the sky isn't falling in on this market. It certainly has cooled off from the last two years, but those were record years. We're back to a normal market - we just forgot what it's like. So while much of the news coverage of the housing market has been dark and gloomy, there are actually a lot of bright spots for opportunistic consumers. :boxed:

[DCBDaytona]

The RE business is just capitalism and free enterprise. I think pro athletes are over paid, too. Some people think union/gov. workers are over compensated. Most RE professionals I know do slide their pay scale on the price of the home, but don't mistake them for those desperate ones who just under-cut and under-deliver as a business model. Kinda scary to think that you use a part time, wife/mother/Mr. Mom, to negotiate and arrange your largest single asset(s). To each their own. Good luck.
As for DCBGaytona's (j/k :wink: )comment,...ok, I'll take the bait....yep, it's just us dummies here contributing to the discussion. :rolleyes: Personally, I'd rather know how a person feels about issues relating to their profession, and that they have the confidence to stand up for their profession. I'd worry about the ones that stay in the background and are afraid to say anything, and don't contribute. (Having said that, there are one or two on this site that I respect, and they have not yet chimed in. No offense to them. :cool: )
I'll keep STIRRING. :p

[AirtimeLavey]

I'll keep STIRRING. :p
Yep, keeps it entertaining... :cool:

[DCBDaytona]

Speaking of RE and RE Agents...
Anybody interested in the buying houses from the high 900's on the Island? The Island Estates are coming to town! And I just happen to be VERY close with the person selling them. :crossx:

[ChumpChange]

Speaking of RE and RE Agents...
Anybody interested in the buying houses from the high 900's on the Island? The Island Estates are coming to town! And I just happen to be VERY close with the person selling them. :crossx:
After I buy a house there can I complain to the city that boats keep running around the island too fast and too loud?

[DCBDaytona]

After I buy a house there can I complain to the city that boats keep running around the island too fast and too loud?
If you'd like.

[AirtimeLavey]

Speaking of RE and RE Agents...
Anybody interested in the buying houses from the high 900's on the Island? The Island Estates are coming to town! And I just happen to be VERY close with the person selling them. :crossx:
Sounds like the bubble is blowing into Havasu.... :crossx:

[NashvilleBound]

My parents bought their house for $28k back in 1971. Do you think it will drop back down to that since the economy is in the toilet? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :crossx: :crossx:
I think if you wait possibly just a few more days it will come back to that level. :220v: :220v: :220v: :220v:

[deltaAce]

My main point was, when home sales were flying of the shelf, the buyer-seller could split the 6% commissions & have an Attorney handle the papers.
And YES way back RE agents were mostly women working part time!
And if I hear one more investment jerk say, "flip that house"...........................

[cjordan]

Its EASY to flip that house.....just ask Carlton Sheets :) No money down....and get a check at closing for your troubles.... :p :wink:

[NautiTwins]

Hey Nauti, if you think an attourney can negotiate RE better than me, You better be happy to pay me 6% to sell your house. Thats funny right there. Out of state they do it for a living but sure as hell not in So Cal. I walk all over those monkeys when they call me. I deal with them all over the country when I buy my rentals and what not. They suck trust me!!!!
I was not attacking you personally, I thought I made that clear. My point was that a good real estate attorney (which I have used in the past to clear estates) can be very benefical.

[djunkie]

I think if you wait possibly just a few more days it will come back to that level. :220v: :220v: :220v: :220v:
Thats the way its sounding. :rollside: :rollside:

[FREIND OF AA AND TA]

I was not attacking you personally, I thought I made that clear. My point was that a good real estate attorney (which I have used in the past to clear estates) can be very benefical.
I know you were not attacking me personaly. I think I was getting a little too into the posts. It's just hard when you bust your ass and a few idiots ruin your reputation. I still dont think an attourney should negotiate real estate. They can barely do the paperwork. They read way too into everything and start adding their own crap. Half the time it scares the hell out of the buyer and they walk.
Clearing an estate is definatly the attourneys job. I could never figure that part out.
Sorry if I went a little overbored. It looks like I was drinking when I was posting. I never should post about this stuff. Until you do it yourself nobody will ever understand.

[boatnam2]

Should have never sold the 1st to Jim and Shiela....but at least they did bring another pretty Schiada to the river...:)
YEA ITS SUCKS,we camp acorss river from tha old pad and i see him all the time.

[NautiTwins]

I know you were not attacking me personaly. I think I was getting a little too into the posts. It's just hard when you bust your ass and a few idiots ruin your reputation. I still dont think an attourney should negotiate real estate. They can barely do the paperwork. They read way too into everything and start adding their own crap. Half the time it scares the hell out of the buyer and they walk.
Clearing an estate is definatly the attourneys job. I could never figure that part out.
Sorry if I went a little overbored. It looks like I was drinking when I was posting. I never should post about this stuff. Until you do it yourself nobody will ever understand.
I live by that statement!

[Sportin' Wood]

Forgive my ignorence please, I don't want both side dogpiling on me.
Simple question, Is it twice as hard to sell a house for 1M then it is for $500,000?
I ask because I'm considering a sell and the commission idea has been troublesome for me. seems a contracted rate that spells out your advertising budget and duties makes more sense to me regardless if it sells or not. You keep up your side of the bargin and I pay regardless if it sells or not.(I don't have to sell other then we out grew the house) I have a hard time under standing why I should pay someone around $75,000 to sell my house?
I'll add a few more facts on the bubble burst......
I work in the southern ca. Construction industry and have since 1988.
New construction is dead in the water and it happened over night about 3 weeks ago. We laid off half our labor and so did all my competition.Builders canned start dates and although we are bidding like crazey nothing is starting, when it does the phases are way smaller. My suppliers are dead and housing sales are nada. I have Employee's pulling thier 401K's out on hardship cases and the mood among my work force is pretty bleak. On the flip side even though gross sales are down my profit margin is up because the ba$tards are now afraid to get fired and are actually working? Go figure!
Its gonna get a little uglier before it gets better. I don't feel a burst is all bad as I'm pretty tierd of credit happy employee's holding me over a barrel and jumping from company to company. (sucks when they appear to have more money then the owners) It may hurt a little but I have been waiting for the crash for 5 years and preparing to capitalize big time.
The Trader magazine is a great source of entertainment nowadays :p

[cdog]

Forgive my ignorence please, I don't want both side dogpiling on me.
Simple question, Is it twice as hard to sell a house for 1M then it is for $500,000?
I ask because I'm considering a sell and the commission idea has been troublesome for me. seems a contracted rate that spells out your advertising budget and duties makes more sense to me regardless if it sells or not. You keep up your side of the bargin and I pay regardless if it sells or not.(I don't have to sell other then we out grew the house) I have a hard time under standing why I should pay someone around $75,000 to sell my house?
I'll add a few more facts on the bubble burst......
I work in the southern ca. Construction industry and have since 1988.
New construction is dead in the water and it happened over night about 3 weeks ago. We laid off half our labor and so did all my competition.Builders canned start dates and although we are bidding like crazey nothing is starting, when it does the phases are way smaller. My suppliers are dead and housing sales are nada. I have Employee's pulling thier 401K's out on hardship cases and the mood among my work force is pretty bleak. On the flip side even though gross sales are down my profit margin is up because the ba$tards are now afraid to get fired and are actually working? Go figure!
Its gonna get a little uglier before it gets better. I don't feel a burst is all bad as I'm pretty tierd of credit happy employee's holding me over a barrel and jumping from company to company. (sucks when they appear to have more money then the owners) It may hurt a little but I have been waiting for the crash for 5 years and preparing to capitalize big time.
The Trader magazine is a great source of entertainment nowadays :p
I often do listings for a set amount when the seller pays for the advertising budget. One thing you may consider is listing with an OC agent like me so the home is advertised and is available to OC residents who are looking for that big home out of the area.
If interested contact Steaminrice (Greg) for reference's. I recently sold his home in Aliso Viejo.
Contact me via pm with your info if interested.

[AirtimeLavey]

Forgive my ignorence please, I don't want both side dogpiling on me.
Simple question, Is it twice as hard to sell a house for 1M then it is for $500,000?
I ask because I'm considering a sell and the commission idea has been troublesome for me. seems a contracted rate that spells out your advertising budget and duties makes more sense to me regardless if it sells or not. You keep up your side of the bargin and I pay regardless if it sells or not.(I don't have to sell other then we out grew the house) I have a hard time under standing why I should pay someone around $75,000 to sell my house?
I'll add a few more facts on the bubble burst......
I work in the southern ca. Construction industry and have since 1988.
New construction is dead in the water and it happened over night about 3 weeks ago. We laid off half our labor and so did all my competition.Builders canned start dates and although we are bidding like crazey nothing is starting, when it does the phases are way smaller. My suppliers are dead and housing sales are nada. I have Employee's pulling thier 401K's out on hardship cases and the mood among my work force is pretty bleak. On the flip side even though gross sales are down my profit margin is up because the ba$tards are now afraid to get fired and are actually working? Go figure!
Its gonna get a little uglier before it gets better. I don't feel a burst is all bad as I'm pretty tierd of credit happy employee's holding me over a barrel and jumping from company to company. (sucks when they appear to have more money then the owners) It may hurt a little but I have been waiting for the crash for 5 years and preparing to capitalize big time.
The Trader magazine is a great source of entertainment nowadays :p
First, everything is negotiable. As for the difference between a 500k and 1 mil, there are differences. Market for 1 mil. is inherently and vastly smaller. Different marketing approach should be used. Some similarities, but different products, and different targets, different methods, perhaps different contingencies, etc. I think comm. should be scaled, but some don't.
I hope your business cruises through whatever this adjustment brings. I had a sub-contracting bus. that I quit after the events in the early 90's. This is different, but could still be rough on some. The worst for me was, the builders didn't just say one day, the projects were cancelled, they kept saying we're delayed, we're delayed. After a while, that can kill a sub whose geared up for the larger scale contracts.

[Sportin' Wood]

The worst for me was, the builders didn't just say one day, the projects were cancelled, they kept saying we're delayed, we're delayed. After a while, that can kill a sub whose geared up for the larger scale contracts.
Nothing has changed, builders are still doing the same thing, guess its pretty scarey to not have a skill to fall back on so they have to screw the people who build for them.
I would be lieing if I said I was not concerned. We just try and and keep the AR from getting out of hand. I don't like issueing credit to people I know will roll over on me. Its a Sh!tty biz, but I'm too stupid to get a law degree and find a bunch of fools to vote me into local politics :cry: Maybe county road dept will take me? :rollside: I think I can remember how to hold a shovel and look busy.

[Havasu Cig]

...residential market is too volitile...??...wtf...?? He must not live on the planet :)
The guy I am talking about is probably worth at least 100 million and owned a large Century 21 office before he retired. Most of his holdings are now commercial for the reasons I stated above (shopping centers, commercial properties etc...). I believe he knows a thing or two about real estate.

[FREIND OF AA AND TA]

The guy I am talking about is probably worth at least 100 million and owned a large Century 21 office before he retired. Most of his holdings are now commercial for the reasons I stated above (shopping centers, commercial properties etc...). I believe he knows a thing or two about real estate.
Commercial is the best way to go for sure. Most can't handle the stress of building it though. I have two going right now and it is soooo tough!

[NashvilleBound]

I wish I could get a crew out here to do some really high end tilt ups. No one out here has a clue. Just brought one of our Olin concrete pumps out here from San Diego and its like introducing sliced bread all over again.....

[FREIND OF AA AND TA]

I wish I could get a crew out here to do some really high end tilt ups. No one out here has a clue. Just brought one of our Olin concrete pumps out here from San Diego and its like introducing sliced bread all over again.....
I have heard concrete pumps are a new thing out there. It blows my mind. I heard they still have manuel pumps. Someone should move out there and get out of the rat race like you did. I also agree about that tilt up thing. I heard there is not much of that either,crap that's all we have going up here. :cry:
If only I had the balls to move!!!!

[NautiTwins]

The guy I am talking about is probably worth at least 100 million and owned a large Century 21 office before he retired. Most of his holdings are now commercial for the reasons I stated above (shopping centers, commercial properties etc...). I believe he knows a thing or two about real estate.
Would it be possible to meet this guy? I love meeting people like that and picking thier brain.

[NashvilleBound]

I have heard concrete pumps are a new thing out there. It blows my mind. I heard they still have manuel pumps. Someone should move out there and get out of the rat race like you did. I also agree about that tilt up thing. I heard there is not much of that either,crap that's all we have going up here. :cry:
If only I had the balls to move!!!!
Not neccesarily a new thing but the trailer pumps are relics.... squeeze tube, old mayco's, slowwwwwwwwwwwww POS's. We only run Olin 5-85's with full remote including throttle....when they see this they look like a deer in the headlights. Education....its going to take a while. There are tiltups....just very generic...no colors, no sandblasting.

[NashvilleBound]

Would it be possible to meet this guy? I love meeting people like that and picking thier brain.
LOL...so you meet this guy.... what are the first three questions you will ask him?

[callbob4homes]

First question: how much commission split and office fees and advertising fees do you pull off the top of the agents? :rollside:
Not really baggin on the guy, free enterprise and all that, but thats why I have my license in a 100% house. 210 a month 150 a side for the first 12 sides and nothing thereafter. I was with a c21 office for a short time so I know how expensive it can get.

[NautiTwins]

LOL...so you meet this guy.... what are the first three questions you will ask him?
1. How did you get where you are today? Specifically, seed money to start out with? What was your first purchase and why? If you could start over would you have changed anything?
2. Obviously he would be a hard worker (alot of hours in and out of the office), How did he balanace his personal/work life during the first 5 years of getting established? Which comes first now vs. then, if it has changed?
3. What would you say to someone starting a career (any career), who wanted to become successful. In terms of work ethic, getting mentors, surrounding yourself with people who would help them grow thier business? More specifically, how did you obtain those contacts? Just years in business or did you actively seek them out?
These are just a couple of things that I am really interested in, at my point in my career. I am constantly seeking mentors and people who will help me grow my business. It is good to sit down with people that have become succesful and most often times they are more then willing to help out.

[Sportin' Wood]

These are just a couple of things that I am really interested in, at my point in my career. I am constantly seeking mentors and people who will help me grow my business. It is good to sit down with people that have become succesful and most often times they are more then willing to help out.
I know what you mean.

[Tequila-John]

well said

[NashvilleBound]

I agree, well said. I was not expecting that to be honest. :boxed:

[NautiTwins]

I agree, well said. I was not expecting that to be honest. :boxed:
So when are we going to meet?

[FREIND OF AA AND TA]

There are enough smart people on these boards to start a small partnership and pull together to invest and build together. I believe the geographic differences are awesome to find out about up and comming areas and other opportunities.
Can anybody think of something good that they don't have the financial ability and might need investers? I have a couple hundred grand to get rid of. The numbers get huge with a small group. The returns are way better!
Besides Cali is soooo ful of red tape.

[Sportin' Wood]

Assisted living senior housing. Boomers are gonna need housing in a bad way over the next few years. Years of abusing their bodies will see alot of folks needing that type of housing IMHO. Build it anywhere its not fricking snowing and they will come.

[NautiTwins]

There are enough smart people on these boards to start a small partnership and pull together to invest and build together. I believe the geographic differences are awesome to find out about up and comming areas and other opportunities.
Can anybody think of something good that they don't have the financial ability and might need investers? I have a couple hundred grand to get rid of. The numbers get huge with a small group. The returns are way better!
Besides Cali is soooo ful of red tape.
Sure do, but I'm going to need about 2 million.

[cdog]

Assisted living senior housing. Boomers are gonna need housing in a bad way over the next few years. Years of abusing their bodies will see alot of folks needing that type of housing IMHO. Build it anywhere its not fricking snowing and they will come.
Very smart man you are. This will the future for the largest wealth holding generation in the history of the US. Sad part is only 50% have 50k or more in their retirement. You will see a huge exodus out of CA due to the state chipping away at prop 13 as retired people look for afordable housing options.
Next cycle............................................. .............................. :)

[HocusPocus]

Assisted living senior housing. Boomers are gonna need housing in a bad way over the next few years. Years of abusing their bodies will see alot of folks needing that type of housing IMHO. Build it anywhere its not fricking snowing and they will come.
i have a friend in washington (state), that has 3 such places and she still has a waiting list of people wanting in. from what she says the hardest part of owning them is finding good people to work'em. i told her thats a common problem everywhere.

[Sportin' Wood]

Sad part is only 50% have 50k or more in their retirement.
Next cycle............................................. .............................. :)
Do you think its that High?
I'm guessing some boomers are going to sh!t when they watch the equity in there homes disappear. I know my inlaws are using that equity as a large portion of there retirement wealth. Surprise you just lost a chunk!
It's going to be interesting to say the least.
Both my parents are screwed, and they know it. Thank god my Dad has the V.A. Mom will be working till she drops dead and likely will be on a steady diet of cat food and cheap wine.They should have read "richest man in Babylon" I guess. :p

[NautiTwins]

Do you think its that High?
I'm guessing some boomers are going to sh!t when they watch the equity in there homes disappear. I know my inlaws are using that equity as a large portion of there retirement wealth. Surprise you just lost a chunk!
It's going to be interesting to say the least.
Both my parents are screwed, and they know it. Thank god my Dad has the V.A. Mom will be working till she drops dead and likely will be on a steady diet of cat food and cheap wine.They should have read "richest man in Babylon" I guess. :p
LMAO. I thought I was the only person in the world that follows that book.

[Sportin' Wood]

I just had a funny idea.
The Navajo Indian reservation is the poorest and largest in the nation if memory serves me correctly. They should develop nirvana out there in AZ. Cheap senior housing, Gambling, and no gov't BS to cost a ton and bog down the project. They could finally have a money maker with all that waste land.
I could see it now. a free people mover that takes your wheelchair down to the casino for 99 cent breakfast, cheap smokes, the Tom Jones tribute players and penny slots. Yep They could call it Nirvana!

[Sportin' Wood]

LMAO. I thought I was the only person in the world that follows that book.
I'm looking for a 1st edition to add to my Library. I have a 2nd edition from the 60's but the 1st is a hard find. Best $3.00 paper back I have ever read. Gave it out for christmas one year. That went over like a fart in church. Whats this crap? :p

[NautiTwins]

I'm looking for a 1st edition to add to my Library. I have a 2nd edition from the 60's but the 1st is a hard find. Best $3.00 paper back I have ever read. Gave it out for christmas one year. That went over like a fart in church. Whats this crap? :p
LMAO. I did that with As a man thinketh. I know for a fact to this day none of the guys, but one has read it. Hell it takes all of 10 minutes.

[cdog]

Do you think its that High?
I'm guessing some boomers are going to sh!t when they watch the equity in there homes disappear. I know my inlaws are using that equity as a large portion of there retirement wealth. Surprise you just lost a chunk!
It's going to be interesting to say the least.
Both my parents are screwed, and they know it. Thank god my Dad has the V.A. Mom will be working till she drops dead and likely will be on a steady diet of cat food and cheap wine.They should have read "richest man in Babylon" I guess. :p
I've read it numerous times in financial publications. One of which was done by a US census study thru Forbes. Scary!
The trick is to find cheap land and wait to build until the materials and labor market bottoms out. Who knows when that will be but we'll see a big change in the next 5-7 years for sure.
Over time I bet that investors will start scooping these types of business up to ad to their portfolio's just like REIT's and commercial properties. The only problem I see is that this type of biz will bloom, bubble and then fade with the baby boomer generation.

[Havasu Cig]

Would it be possible to meet this guy? I love meeting people like that and picking thier brain.
He is a wierd guy to say the least, and one of my fathers best friends. He lives in San Diego and spends most of his time traveling now. I really don't like the guy much myself, but he does know real estate. He made a lot of money selling all kinds, but his personal money, like I said above, is mostly invested in commercial. I don't know that he would be interested in meeting with anybody unless their was money to be made on his end to tell you the truth.

[Havasu Cig]

1. How did you get where you are today? Specifically, seed money to start out with? What was your first purchase and why? If you could start over would you have changed anything?
2. Obviously he would be a hard worker (alot of hours in and out of the office), How did he balanace his personal/work life during the first 5 years of getting established? Which comes first now vs. then, if it has changed?
3. What would you say to someone starting a career (any career), who wanted to become successful. In terms of work ethic, getting mentors, surrounding yourself with people who would help them grow thier business? More specifically, how did you obtain those contacts? Just years in business or did you actively seek them out?
These are just a couple of things that I am really interested in, at my point in my career. I am constantly seeking mentors and people who will help me grow my business. It is good to sit down with people that have become succesful and most often times they are more then willing to help out.
Some of the answers...
1. He inherited enough money when he was in his early 20's to buy 1/2 of a Century 21 office. He ended up later in life owning a much larger office himself.
2. He worked 7 days a week from what I remember growing up. It is kind of sad really, because he never really stopped to enjoy the money he was making when he was younger. Once he was diagnosed with cancer (which he survived) about 5 years ago he retired and started to enjoy life. He is in his mid 60's now.
3. The money he inherited, and his family having money for several generations definitely helped with contacts. His son (he has 3 kids) just entered the business, but he is going to get a trust worth about 20 million, so he is not a real hard worker. I guess if I was going to inherit 20 million I might not be either.
Starting with money gives you a HUGE advantage over someone making it from nothing. He worked very hard, and made good investments, but IMO he would not have what he does had he not been born into money.
On the question of commercial versus residential though, he has told me that commercial is much more stable. He made a lot of money selling residential real estate, but I don't know of any in his portfolio. I think that makes a statement. He also has told me that a good agent can always make a living selling reale estate, but you have to be realistic about changes in the market. A lot of the people that just got into the business are going to find this out. My.02

[Nautitwins2]

He is a wierd guy to say the least, and one of my fathers best friends. He lives in San Diego and spends most of his time traveling now. I really don't like the guy much myself, but he does know real estate. He made a lot of money selling all kinds, but his personal money, like I said above, is mostly invested in commercial. I don't know that he would be interested in meeting with anybody unless their was money to be made on his end to tell you the truth.
Sent you a PM!

[NashvilleBound]

So when are we going to meet?
LOL....well, I am actually picking someone up at the airport tomorrow from San Diego that has never been to this side of the world. He knows me (distantly) but knows I never mess around when it comes to business. When I say there is money to be made you better have your pen and checkbook ready. So your welcome to come out any time. This place is on the move. Building permits over the counter the same day...... I can buy a farm and have all streets and underground approved and installed in less than 16 months (residential). Murfreesboro TN......do you homework and let me know. We are on the top of the lists for building and home sales nationally. If you have your own company and want to expand....bring it. This place needs any GOOD companies that sell or provide reputable services.
The schoolings free.........

[Havasu Cig]

Assisted living senior housing. Boomers are gonna need housing in a bad way over the next few years. Years of abusing their bodies will see alot of folks needing that type of housing IMHO. Build it anywhere its not fricking snowing and they will come.
My uncle just sold his assited living business. He had five facilties in riverside county with 8-12 beds per facility. He was making about 750k a year, but he was tied to the business 24/7. He made a nice living doing it, but I have never seen a business that had more problems than that. He could never get away because something was always going on. Everytime we had plans to do something his cell phone would start ringing. Major pain in the ass to run IMO.

[Steamin' Rice]

I often do listings for a set amount when the seller pays for the advertising budget. One thing you may consider is listing with an OC agent like me so the home is advertised and is available to OC residents who are looking for that big home out of the area.
If interested contact Steaminrice (Greg) for reference's. I recently sold his home in Aliso Viejo.
Contact me via pm with your info if interested.
I would be happy to refer anyone who needs a realtor to Corey (CDOG)
If everything goes smoothly in a transaction it can be tempting to look at the commission that gets paid to the agents and wonder what they did to earn it, but sometimes a good agent is what makes things go smooth. While listing our house, Corey had a visual tour of our house posted online, advertised in newspapers, and held an open house. We ended up selling faster than average (about 40 dom compared to 60 dom for most of my neighbors) for a great price, and we closed on schedule with no surprises at the end. This was well worth the commission to me.

[NashvilleBound]

I would be happy to refer anyone who needs a realtor to Corey (CDOG)
If everything goes smoothly in a transaction it can be tempting to look at the commission that gets paid to the agents and wonder what they did to earn it, but sometimes a good agent is what makes things go smooth. While listing our house, Corey had a visual tour of our house posted online, advertised in newspapers, and held an open house. We ended up selling faster than average (about 40 dom compared to 60 dom for most of my neighbors) for a great price, and we closed on schedule with no surprises at the end. This was well worth the commission to me.
Oh brother...here goes this thread............. Steamin' Rice is in the house.....(jk) :rollside: :) :rollside:

[Steamin' Rice]

Oh brother...here goes this thread............. Steamin' Rice is in the house.....(jk) :rollside: :) :rollside:
lol