Real Estate "Correction"

[ChumpChange]

I've seen the word "correction" in many posts lately in regards to real estate. That word is used instead of just stating that values are dropping. One can say that the value of my house is "correcting" and I'm fine with that. The artificial/appraised value of my home is still higher than what I paid for it so I really don't care.
But.......What do you say to those people who bought a house in January of this year when the prices were at their highest artificial level? Technically, they have lost money on the deal....do you still use the word correction to them?
The reason I ask is that I called up my Havasu Realtor yesterday and was asking about the market up there since I'll be buying soon. She stated it is really soft(does this make her a liar to those realtors on the board?). In order to put this in persective, I asked her about the house I sold in February. The new owner has had a real tough time there since the time he bought it and wanted to unload it, not a tough time financially as he bought the house cash but physically(heat, marriage, etc.). He can't unload it for $40,000 less than he bought it from me. Do realtors just tell him, don't worry, it's a correction.....at this time, what do realtors say to a person in this situation? Nobody has yet to state that it is/was a bad time to buy real estate.
edit: We all "know" where real estate is going, I just wanted some insight on the use of the word "correction" with this post and what one can say to clients who bought at the "wrong" time.

[ratso]

MSNBC had a bleak forecast for the real estate market... but what do they know? :idea:

[Jyruiz]

I think they use the word correction because it sounds better than a bursting bubble. :)

[ChumpChange]

MSNBC had a bleak forecast for the real estate market... but what do they know? :idea:
We all think we know where real estate is going depeding on what side of the fence we're on. I wanted to ask about the word "correction" and it's use in the market place to those who bought at the wrong time. Can that word be used?

[Mandelon]

He bought when the market was "incorrect"..... :rolleyes:
Lots of folks have overpaid, the bought at the top and their equity will suffer. There's a lot of reasons Havi won't suffer, but plenty that it will.....
Values will be down $50K to 100K from the peak, maybe more.....
Its happening here already.
The market was too hot, and will slow down to a more normal pace. You can call that correcting.....its not plunging or crashing....

[DCBDaytona]

Real Estate again???
My momma is a RE Agent for Havi/Laughlin, etc., and yes the market is SOFT, especially Havasu. Suprisingly, Mohave Valley is getting HOT.

[Trailer Park Casanova]

Some areas will remain strong like Redondo Beach, Manhattan Beach, and some similar others where it's lot value buying, scraping the shack and re-building with an awsum home.
Prices are still soaring in these lot value markets.
Some will wake up and realize they can't justify the prices like areas in Las Vegas where massive spec buying makes ya ask the question as the where the values may now go?
LV Spec buyers own homes in a high vacancy rental market where they can't collect anywhere near the rent $$ to make the monthly note, so unloading them at corrected prices before they go upside down seems to be the current trend.
I don't know anyone willing to take a $100.000 + hit that could very well happen in the next 24 months.
At least the half dozen LV spec buyers I know are unloading with no buyers. They want out.
They're jumping ship like rats, and heading back to PI.
No offense ratso,,

[gmejia]

I Paid 340,000.00 For My Housein Oct Of 04 My Neighbor Just Sold At 502000 The Guy Across The Street Just Help Lower The Market (divorce Sale ) By Selling 399000.00

[Trailer Park Casanova]

I Paid 340,000.00 For My Housein Oct Of 04 My Neighbor Just Sold At 502000 The Guy Across The Street Just Help Lower The Market (divorce Sale ) By Selling 399000.00
Though my wife is worth far more than me, I pre nup'd my shack.
Crestfallen Manor stays with the TPC if she walked.
So far, by keeping my mouth shut,, she's sticking around.

[DMOORE]

Correcting, adjusting... all means the same. There's never a guarantee on an investment. I still feel, if someone is going to stay in a home for 5 years, it doesn't matter. As for those that think they could flip a home and be guaranteed a profit, well lesson learned. I don't feel the realtors have to tell the gentleman that purchased your home anything. He's an adult. He should realise that trying to get out of an investment in 6 months is going to be a bad move financially. When people make bad decisions they suddenly want to blame someone else( a realtor ) in this case. No one has a crystal ball.
Darrell.

[phebus]

Unless the guy was a first time buyer, it's all relative. If he sold a house to buy yours, and the market was hot, he got top dollar from his sale to buy yours. So, if he'd have stayed where he was, he'd take a hit on his old property, or now that he has moved, he's takeing a hit on the new house.

[Nautitwins2]

yes the word correction can be used in this situation. It is just a choice of words. Correction=loss or Correction=off previous highs or Correction=reversion to mean.
They all kind of mean the same thing. my .02

[AirtimeLavey]

I guess if you buy and then turn around and try to sell in 9 mos., you could have issues. People trying to play the market timing game can get stung. If he holds long term, is he still stung? Will it be a bad buy then? No one is denying that the market is soft and appreciation has and is declining. I don't know many realtors suggesting buy now, and sell in a few months or a year. Market's not there at the moment. No one has a crystal ball. No one. Yet, everyone wants to know what's going to happen next. You can see signs and indicators, but the only sure thing is it's cyclical. It's unfortunate that his timing appears to have been bad. As someone said before, you make money when you buy. Did he buy smart? Anyway, best of luck to him, and I hope he doesn't take a bath if he has to get rid of it.

[socalmofo]

I guess the word correction makes some of us positive thinkers feel ok. If the market goes down 20%, fine, I got my ducks in a row.
And it is all relative. Get top dollar for your house and pay top dollar for the next one. If your house drops 20% so does the next house you purchase. You do better on either the buy or the sell, and rarely both.

[phebus]

Local government, that benefits from property tax are the ones really getting nervous over this "correction"

[HavasuDreamin']

Correction is used to describe a downtown in more than just real estate.... the stock market for example. You get all these eighty two bazillion people looking to buy....feeling good about their jobs, lives, incomes, etc.... and flood the market for a couple of years. After all, everyone else is doing it. Prices start climbing drastically...they start climbing 25% + per year. This IS NOT sustainable over the long term. Never has been, never will be. Doesn't matter if you are talking stocks, bonds, homes, etc. In fact what has happened, is the asset in question has risen in value by more than it should have over the short term due to the craziness in the market. So yes, people buying at the peak are paying too much. You here the term buy high and sell low describing the guy that just made a bad investment in the stock market. Happens all the time....in real estate too.
One thing to keep in mind though...the only way to turn a high priced item into a LOSS is to sell low. Wait a couple of years (if possible) and then sell. Chances are you will make money.
One more item to keep in mind.... the prices of real estate generally go up when rates are down. So anyone who has a "paper" loss right now should theoretically have a better rate than what can be had in the market today offsetting some of the higher cost of the asset.

[Roxysnow]

Call it correction, loss, adjustment....Homes become overpriced as rates get lower, why because people can afford more and are willing to pay more with lower rates and sellers take advantage and they should. For example, 2-5 years ago a 500k loan at 5.5%, 30yr - $2838. Now, with rates adjusting upward that same person could only get 450k loan at 6.5% 30yr loan with a pmt of $2844. 50k difference in price. The market will always and continue to do this. As the rates increase, people can't afford what they used to and sellers start to lower prices. And homes do home values do correct themselves according to interest rates. As someone stated earlier, if your not selling anytime soon then why be worried. Market is always up and down!

[Mandelon]

This site has some good articles on the situation.
http://housingbubblecasualty.com
"If you have an I/O mortgage, you are just renting from the bank and your state. You do NOT own your house at this time. Sure, on paper, it is yours…but if you doubt me, stop making your mortgage payment for a few months and then let me know who REALLY owns that house. With an interest only mortgage, your principal balance isn’t changing and you get the added joy of paying property taxes. Sure there is a tax write-off, but in most of the bubble areas that doesn’t make up the difference between ‘owning’ and ‘renting’. That wasn’t a problem when property was increasing in value every month, but treading water financially when prices are flat or falling is NOT a good place to be, especially when facing an ARM that is about to reset to a much higher payment. Making higher payments on a decreasing asset sounds about as much fun…as renting! Ha ha…just kidding. You get the point. "

[AFD]

I guess the word correction makes some of us positive thinkers feel ok. If the market goes down 20%, fine, I got my ducks in a row.
And it is all relative. Get top dollar for your house and pay top dollar for the next one. If your house drops 20% so does the next house you purchase. You do better on either the buy or the sell, and rarely both.
Very well said, but the correction isnt going to touch those of us with conventional loans and normal lifestyles. Those with the I/O loans, Equity lines and all of the big toys are going to be the ones in forclosure.
How in the hell does someone making 100k a year with a wife and kids afford some of these boats we all see. I doesnt add up and at some point its time to crash and burn. Sad but true.

[Sportin' Wood]

How in the hell does someone making 100k a year with a wife and kids afford some of these boats we all see. I doesnt add up and at some point its time to crash and burn. Sad but true.
Good question for a first post, We all ready know the answer. :)

[Hallett19]

I think they use the word correction because it sounds better than a bursting bubble. :)
a few others would be: tanking, going belly up, hittin' the $hit, sinking, bottom's falling out.... you get the point.

[Ion]

A few yeas ago, "correction" was the term being used here in Havasu to describe the drastic appreciation rates we saw. It made sense, because the prices of homes truly were undervalued. Now they're correcting again, just in the opposite direction. There's no way in hell they will drop to the levels before the upward correction began. Sooner or later, they'll get it right. I think we're close to reaching that plateau where homes are valued correctly and will appreciate at more reasonable rates.

[Waist Deep]

Bought a model in BHC six months ago and not concerned at all. Builder is paying us $2,300.00 a month for three more years to lease it back in order to continue showing it. By that time, the correction should be good. They still are selling in BHC the way they were before the correction.

[ratso]

I think I'm gonna put this "Correction" thing to work when I write payroll for my employees here in a bit. :idea:

[SHOTKALLIN]

Real Estate again???
My momma is a RE Agent for Havi/Laughlin, etc., and yes the market is SOFT, especially Havasu. Suprisingly, Mohave Valley is getting HOT.
I am not surprised that Mohave Valley is doing well. 1/2 way between Laughlin/Bullhead and Havasu. Thats a no brainer. With the way prices shot up Mohave Valley is a bargain. Its not out of the way like Kingman. Its right in the mix. Launch at Needles or Jack Smith, head south and youre at Park Moabi or the sand bar. I bought 3 lots in Mohave Valley last year. Now I'm just waiting.

[AFD]

Good question for a first post, We all ready know the answer. :)
Why sugar coat the truth, alot of people are going to be bankrupt and destitute when all is said and done. Makes me sick to see what some people will do to be in the cool crowd.

[socalmofo]

Why sugar coat the truth, alot of people are going to be bankrupt and destitute when all is said and done. Makes me sick to see what some people will do to be in the cool crowd.
Wow, the quote of the century. It's always funny to see a guy whose wife doesn't work, who makes average money, driving a dcb pulled by an escalade and has a diesel pusher and a long travel buggy to go with it all while on an interest only.
Hopefully everything works out and these people make it through ok but it might also be a long road.

[AFD]

Wow, the quote of the century. It's always funny to see a guy whose wife doesn't work, who makes average money, driving a dcb pulled by an escalade and has a diesel pusher and a long travel buggy to go with it all while on an interest only.
Hopefully everything works out and these people make it through ok but it might also be a long road.
Sorry, sometimes being new makes it hard to be original. Sounds to me we might be on the same page. I also hope that everything works out for the best.

[LhcBrad]

Here is my 2 cents
"More than $2 trillion of U.S. mortgage debt, or about a quarter of all mortgage loans outstanding, comes up for interest-rate resets in 2006 and 2007, estimates Moody's Economy.com, a research firm in West Chester, Pa."
We say so its only a few trillion bucks Now here is the fun part. Does anyone know how many a trillion is? Its alot. Read on!!
How much is a million?
"If one million kids climbed onto one another's shoulders, they would be…farther up than airplanes can fly. About 40,000 ft
If you wanted to count from one to one million…it would take you about 23 days."
How big is a billion?
"If a billion kids made a human tower…it would stand up past the moon.
If you sat down to count from one to one billion…you would be counting for 95 years."
How tremendous is a trillion?
"If a trillion kids stood on top of each other, they would reach beyond the moon – beyond mars and Jupiter, and almost as far as Saturn's rings.
If you wanted to count from one to one trillion it would take you almost 200,000 years."
200,000 years to count to one trillion!
Dont forget thats 2 trillion not 1 trillion come due
This is why i think 2007 will be the sinking year for housing
Just my 2 cents though

[CA Stu]

What about the collateral losses? Less people able to make it in the Real Estate biz, the finance companies that were making money on people refinancing their homes 3 or more times are going to be laying off workers left and right, construction will slow down.
I think it has the potential to be quite the snowball.
It's going to get ugly before it gets pretty, I reckon.
I'm glad I'm fiscally conservative. :boxed:
Thanks
CA Stu

[AFD]

[QUOTE=CA Stu]What about the collateral losses? Less people able to make it in the Real Estate biz, the finance companies that were making money on people refinancing their homes 3 or more times are going to be laying off workers left and right, construction will slow down.
I think it has the potential to be quite the snowball.
It's going to get ugly before it gets pretty, I reckon.
I'm glad I'm fiscally conservative. :boxed:
Thanks
CA Stu[/QUOTE
You reckon correctly!!! All I can say is that I will be combing the spam section of this site to pick me up a nice boat for pennies on the dollar, who knows maybe two or three!!!!!!

[Rexone]

From my seat I see a historical cycle just repeating. A lot of folks under 30-35 probably were too young to notice the last one when values crashed.
Using my home as an example, owned for 11 years. Value was relatively flat with single digit appreciation for about 9 years. Past two years value exploded to about 2.5 x. Realistic? no. But lots of folks borrowed up to their ears on these inflated values. My opinion (which I'm sure the RE folks wont' agree with) is that values are gonna tank in some cases 40% or more over the next couple years. Then a long period of realistic appreciation will again insue for a long period of years (5-8) before the next unrealistic runup. Not a good scenario for those who bought on the high side with intent to flip for profit. Not a problem for the long term dweller who bought for somewhere to live (as long as the inflated equity wasn't used to buy toys).
The toys will take a big hit too as the fire sales start (as toys most often do anyway) and will become difficult to sell at fire sale prices. But a lot of toys will be sold in attempt to keep the houses once the ARM & I/O loan payment hikes kick in.
Chumpchange and I were talking the other day and he mentioned a lot of I/O or Neg am loans written with a 2 year mark on the payment increase, but with a 3 year prepay penalty. Basically that person is trapped in that loan without substantial costs to refi. An example of poor lending practices (greed driven). I had a similar loan about 4 years ago that I got through an online lender. It was an expensive loan to start with in terms of costs but the attractive rate and payment were the hooks. I refinanced out of it a year ago to a conservative 30 year fixed. That ARM loan today would be kicking my ass financially had I kept it. Unfortunately those who took similar loans in the past 2 years are now going to be facing that same trap, but in a declining market. Not a pleasent scenario. A lot of less than ethilical lending has occured the past couple years too, which in turn fueled the price runup imo to some extent. A lot of stated income seconds were written based on equity with false value.
That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it. :wink:

[HocusPocus]

From my seat I see a historical cycle just repeating. A lot of folks under 30-35 probably were too young to notice the last one when values crashed.
Using my home as an example, owned for 11 years. Value was relatively flat with single digit appreciation for about 9 years. Past two years value exploded to about 2.5 x. Realistic? no. But lots of folks borrowed up to their ears on these inflated values. My opinion (which I'm sure the RE folks wont' agree with) is that values are gonna tank in some cases 40% or more over the next couple years. Then a long period of realistic appreciation will again insue for a long period of years (5-8) before the next unrealistic runup. Not a good scenario for those who bought on the high side with intent to flip for profit. Not a problem for the long term dweller who bought for somewhere to live (as long as the inflated equity wasn't used to buy toys).
The toys will take a big hit too as the fire sales start (as toys most often do anyway) and will become difficult to sell at fire sale prices. But a lot of toys will be sold in attempt to keep the houses once the ARM & I/O loan payment hikes kick in.
Chumpchange and I were talking the other day and he mentioned a lot of I/O or Neg am loans written with a 2 year mark on the payment increase, but with a 3 year prepay penalty. Basically that person is trapped in that loan without substantial costs to refi. An example of poor lending practices (greed driven). I had a similar loan about 4 years ago that I got through an online lender. It was an expensive loan to start with in terms of costs but the attractive rate and payment were the hooks. I refinanced out of it a year ago to a conservative 30 year fixed. That ARM loan today would be kicking my ass financially had I kept it. Unfortunately those who took similar loans in the past 2 years are now going to be facing that same trap, but in a declining market. Not a pleasent scenario. A lot of less than ethilical lending has occured the past couple years too, which in turn fueled the price runup imo to some extent. A lot of stated income seconds were written based on equity with false value.
That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it. :wink:
i think your opinion is gonna be pretty close, im 45 and remember all to well what happened the last time around. the wifes parents lost their home among other things. for some folks its really going to be a living nightmare that will be hard to recover from.

[nodigg]

I'm going on record. Time to buy, buy, buy! The slump is oer!

[totenhosen]

A few yeas ago, "correction" was the term being used here in Havasu to describe the drastic appreciation rates we saw. It made sense, because the prices of homes truly were undervalued. Now they're correcting again, just in the opposite direction. There's no way in hell they will drop to the levels before the upward correction began. Sooner or later, they'll get it right. I think we're close to reaching that plateau where homes are valued correctly and will appreciate at more reasonable rates.
Your tune sure has changed from 6 months ago when Havasu would never fall because of all the people wanting to move to there.
We are not even close to the bottom. Just wait for one people are forced to sell and the market is flooded.

[Rexone]

i think your opinion is gonna be pretty close, im 45 and remember all to well what happened the last time around. the wifes parents lost their home among other things. for some folks its really going to be a living nightmare that will be hard to recover from.
I remember having a discussion with my (new at the time) next door neighbor when I moved in. This was a few years after the last crash. His home had "corrected" from 900K plus down to the 600K range. Just as an example of what is happening currently may be the start of. Maybe not, time will tell. But historically, cycles repeat.

[AFD]

Your tune sure has changed from 6 months ago when Havasu would never fall because of all the people wanting to move to there.
We are not even close to the bottom. Just wait for one people are forced to sell and the market is flooded.
Very true. As I see it the havasu market is flooded right now. Record levels of inventory (increasing every day) average time on the market has doubled and tripled. Couple that with the fact that a good portion of the homes there are owned by folks in california that have interest only notes on their homes so thet can afford their "vacation" homes and you have a time bomb waiting to explode.
What a concept, defer your interest payments on your families home so you can buy another one and defer the interest in it as well. Then go out and get a twenty year loan on on a 100k boat. And while your at it contribute nothing to your IRA accounts, and other savings.
This scenario I'm sure is reality for many of the folks on the water each weekend. Sad but true.

[3 daytona`s]

I think they use the word correction because it sounds better than a bursting bubble. :)
We have a medical issue vs terminal cancer

[locogringo]

Very true. As I see it the havasu market is flooded right now. Record levels of inventory (increasing every day) average time on the market has doubled and tripled. Couple that with the fact that a good portion of the homes there are owned by folks in california that have interest only notes on their homes so thet can afford their "vacation" homes and you have a time bomb waiting to explode.
What a concept, defer your interest payments on your families home so you can buy another one and defer the interest in it as well. Then go out and get a twenty year loan on on a 100k boat. And while your at it contribute nothing to your IRA accounts, and other savings.
This scenario I'm sure is reality for many of the folks on the water each weekend. Sad but true.
I woul dhave to agree with you. There is a place and a time for IO loans though in my opinion. Maybe not necessarily the deferred interest kind but IO has its benefits.

[callbob4homes]

Correction is the market coming back to what it should be, versus the inflated values the "investors" drove it into. If you over leveraged your equity at the wrong time..........(is there a right time?) you can't blame the market. You are the dumb ass. Enjoy the big dog toys............................until the guy shows up with the tow truck. :crossx: :cry:

[wsuwrhr]

I have been wanting a house at the river somewhere. Hopefully now I'll be able to afford one.
Brian

[AFD]

I have been wanting a house at the river somewhere. Hopefully now I'll be able to afford one.
Brian
I would wait until this time next year to start looking. By then the trickle down will become a landslide and your money will go further. Goodluck to you.

[AFD]

I woul dhave to agree with you. There is a place and a time for IO loans though in my opinion. Maybe not necessarily the deferred interest kind but IO has its benefits.
They definetly have their place. However in most circumstances people use them to get into bigger and more expensive homes that they could never afford with a conventional loan. Bad Idea.

[CBadDad]

They definetly have their place. However in most circumstances people use them to get into bigger and more expensive homes that they could never afford with a conventional loan. Bad Idea.
Really? What about a ten year Interest Only loan. I would think that the depreciation (i.e., corection) will have past and coupled with inflation, that would be a good way to get into a nice home and be ahead when it comes time to start paying principle.
If someone was to do something like that, would 10% be enough down?

[AFD]

Really? What about a ten year Interest Only loan. I would think that the depreciation (i.e., corection) will have past and coupled with inflation, that would be a good way to get into a nice home and be ahead when it comes time to start paying principle.
If someone was to do something like that, would 10% be enough down?
Depends on the type of ARM they get. If they are paying all of the interest each month nd not defering any of it thats great. Most I/O loans are tied to one of the bank indexes I.E. Libor ect, which alow a payment schedule that increases over time, or worse offeres the minimum payment possible. This gives the buyer much more buying power, and in most cases gives people a false sense of ownership. They own the home on paper but they are essentialy renting it from the bank. Unfortunatly most people in this situation take the extra money each month and spend it on things that wont make them any money, but only cost them more.
If you own your home outright and use an I/O loan for an investment property or for speculation, then more power to you, and congratulatios for being finacialy succesfull. Just saying that most people using these loans are not.

[CBadDad]

Depends on the type of ARM they get. If they are paying all of the interest each month nd not defering any of it thats great. Most I/O loans are tied to one of the bank indexes I.E. Libor ect, which alow a payment schedule that increases over time, or worse offeres the minimum payment possible. This gives the buyer much more buying power, and in most cases gives people a false sense of ownership. They own the home on paper but they are essentialy renting it from the bank. Unfortunatly most people in this situation take the extra money each month and spend it on things that wont make them any money, but only cost them more.
Does it have to be an ARM? Can you not find a fixed I/O?
Just curious because I have about $100K that I'm sitting on waiting for the market to "correct". Although it has taken longer than I expected, it seems to be headed in that direction. With all of the manipulation of the market though, one wonders what will "put off" the ultimate correction next. Will it be 40 year loans???

[Waist Deep]

Yes you can find a fixed 30 with the option of paying I/O for the first 9. The difference will be calculated into the 20 year balance. We're just paying the full so we dont need to worry about finding the rest later.

[AFD]

Yes you can find a fixed 30 with the option of paying I/O for the first 9. The difference will be calculated into the 20 year balance. We're just paying the full so we dont need to worry about finding the rest later.
This is the only way an I/O loan really works, again most folks are simply not disciplined enough to pay the extra money each month.
I dont mean to get up on the soap box, just that i have seen too many people get into these loans and get burned.

[Waist Deep]

The reason we opted for this is due to the fact that after three years and our builder stops paying the lease, we had intended to sell, so whether or not we payed the principal down or not was not that important. My wife, however has always felt that we should pay the full amount. She is usually right about these things.

[Ion]

We are not even close to the bottom. Just wait for one people are forced to sell and the market is flooded.
No sense disputing an unfounded claim. Oh...and wait for what? It's been happening all summer (people forced to sell and flood the market). I don't have the stats, but I'll bet most of those freaking out right now are those who over-extended themselves to get their 1500 sq. ft. spec. houses here.
According to Zillow.com, (who alleges to base their findings on actual sales), Havasu, on average, has appreciated 6.9% for the year. That sure doesn't apply to my house and 'hood, but I'm not over-extended and will realize appreciation again.

[totenhosen]

No sense disputing an unfounded claim. !
HUH???
Oh...and wait for what? It's been happening all summer (people forced to sell and flood the market). I don't have the stats, but I'll bet most of those freaking out right now are those who over-extended themselves to get their 1500 sq. ft. spec. houses here.
According to Zillow.com, (who alleges to base their findings on actual sales), Havasu, on average, has appreciated 6.9% for the year. That sure doesn't apply to my house and 'hood, but I'm not over-extended and will realize appreciation again.
Timing couldn't be worse for all this! 5th wheels & winnebagos are just around the corner, full of snowbird lookie-loos, who are now bound to find a bargin somewhere in town!
That is not a forced sale. Imagine people not actually being able to make the payment when the loan adjusts. The words short sale will once again become common. What makes a decline even worse is that Havasu is still primarily a second home market.

[Ion]

[QUOTE=totenhosen]HUH???
[QUOTE]
That was re: your statement that we're nowhere near the bottom. That is unfounded.

[Ion]

What makes a decline even worse is that Havasu is still primarily a second home market.
Anyone have stats on this claim? Until someone comes up with that, I'm going to lean toward you being wrong again. So, according to you, out of the 60,000-some residents here in town, over 30,000 are part-timers? Prove it.

[locogringo]

Anyone have stats on this claim? Until someone comes up with that, I'm going to lean toward you being wrong again. So, according to you, out of the 60,000-some residents here in town, over 30,000 are part-timers? Prove it.
I had the stats and looked for about 10 minutes (about my attn span on here) but can't find it. If recollection serves my brain correctly, the amount of absentee owners in Lake Havasu was right around 23%, but I couldn't be certain.
That still is a fairly high level.

[lawbreaker2]

http://www.realtor.com/FindHome/HomeListing.asp?snum=96&locallnk=yes&frm=bymap&mnbed=4&mnbath=2&mnprice=200000&mxprice=99999999&js=off&pgnum=10&fid=so&stype=&mnsqft=&mls=xmls&areaid=26708&poe=realtor&ct=Lake+Havasu+City&st=AZ&sbint=&vtsort=&sorttype=&typ=1&typ=6&x=20&y=2&sid=074553A044B8C&snumxlid=1066132458&lnksrc=00001
I like this one, But I'll wait till it comes down a little more, Like about $600,000 more. :rolleyes: These prices are still way to high. :cry:

[Ion]

I had the stats and looked for about 10 minutes (about my attn span on here) but can't find it. If recollection serves my brain correctly, the amount of absentee owners in Lake Havasu was right around 23%, but I couldn't be certain.
That still is a fairly high level.
Based on a longtime resident & RE broker's website, totten is WAY off the mark.
Whe he said: "What makes a decline even worse is that Havasu is still primarily a second home market". He DID say "primarily", not "fairly high". Primarily surely implies majority in the english language, right? Check out this longtime local RE woman's website and judge for yourself: http://www.lakehavasu.com/stone/profile.htm
Oh...btw, locogringo, your 23% was very close to this woman's estimate of second home owners....but that's nowhere near totten's "primarily".

[AFD]

Based on a longtime resident & RE broker's website, totten is WAY off the mark.
Whe he said: "What makes a decline even worse is that Havasu is still primarily a second home market". He DID say "primarily", not "fairly high". Primarily surely implies majority in the english language, right? Check out this longtime local RE woman's website and judge for yourself: http://www.lakehavasu.com/stone/profile.htm
Oh...btw, locogringo, your 23% was very close to this woman's estimate of second home owners....but that's nowhere near totten's "primarily".
Bottom line is that hopefully those that bought second homes in Havasu were financially stable when they bought, and have since not sucked all of the equity out of their homes. However in my opinion by the looks of all the new boats on the water they have.......and sooner or later it will come back to bite them.

[totenhosen]

[QUOTE=totenhosen]HUH???
[QUOTE]
That was re: your statement that we're nowhere near the bottom. That is unfounded.
Basic economics tells us that. Do some research on the early 90's R/E market.

[totenhosen]

Based on a longtime resident & RE broker's website, totten is WAY off the mark.
Whe he said: "What makes a decline even worse is that Havasu is still primarily a second home market". He DID say "primarily", not "fairly high". Primarily surely implies majority in the english language, right? Check out this longtime local RE woman's website and judge for yourself: http://www.lakehavasu.com/stone/profile.htm
Oh...btw, locogringo, your 23% was very close to this woman's estimate of second home owners....but that's nowhere near totten's "primarily".
You are right primarily is the wrong word. (Maybe primarily thought as would have been better or a large concentration.) Either way it is still a HUGE concentration! In a downtrend areas such as these get hit harder than say Phx or LA.
I also wonder where they get the estimate from. I know for a fact that when people buy out of state properties they will list on the R/E contract that they intend to occupy the property as a primary residence in order to get a better loan and/or pay less in property taxes. What about all the speculators?
Either way you are wrong when you had said R/E prices will never drop in Havasu. Hopefully you weren't one of those that is leveraged to the tilt and don't have a ARM loan.

[AFD]

QUOTE=totenhosen]
Either way you are wrong when you had said R/E prices will never drop in Havasu. Hopefully you weren't one of those that is leveraged to the tilt and don't have a ARM loan.
Hopefully is the key word here because most people are tilted as you say and do have ARM's and or I/O. Thats what Havasu is all about, being in the cool crowd and keeping up with the Jone's. To bad some people have mortgaged their families futures for an image amoungst their peers.

[ROZ]

Why sugar coat the truth, alot of people are going to be bankrupt and destitute when all is said and done. Makes me sick to see what some people will do to be in the cool crowd.
Funny you mention this... For a while I've thought that the reason the BK laws changed was to protect lenders from what they all knew was coming due to consumer debt and over spending...

[ROZ]

Either way you are wrong when you had said R/E prices will never drop in Havasu. Hopefully you weren't one of those that is leveraged to the tilt and don't have a ARM loan.
You're usually more thorough..Not to pick you're post apart, but Ion did post this on the last page:
That sure doesn't apply to my house and 'hood, but I'm not over-extended and will realize appreciation again.

[boatsnblondes]

i think your opinion is gonna be pretty close, im 45 and remember all to well what happened the last time around. the wifes parents lost their home among other things. for some folks its really going to be a living nightmare that will be hard to recover from.
I agree also. Here is where we are. We sold our home in June of this year, and bought up here in the Modesto area. Though I originally paid 173,000 for the house down there, after I got married, I refinanced to pay off her debt, and mine also. Took it up to about 255 with closing costs. We sold in June for 470, put 20% down on this place, paid off everything we needed to, pocketed the rest. The house was originally the model for the area, it was listed on the website at 565, we got it for 459. It has in it, 126,000 in upgrades, and 106,000 in incentives. And we put nearly 100,000 down on it.
I say all of this because I looked at the market and decided it was tanking at the time, with more to come. Since we are here for the long haul, not short term, I was not worried about the equity like some might be. At this time, we have less than 15,000 in debt, and own the boat outright. I consider autos a depreciating expense, so we buy, but do not lease.
One thing though, and here is my main point. This is a new job for me, in a new area, so I decided to take it easy on the housepayment long enough to let us get settled in, and let my wife start teaching. So I took an I/O for the same terms mentioned above. Even though I have I/O for two years, and a prepayment penalty for three, I will refi after two. I figure 6 mos of the fixed interest rate as a penalty is a lot cheaper to pay than 12 mos of the re-indexed rate. And we end up in a conventional loan for 30 years....mission accomplished.

[totenhosen]

You're usually more thorough..Not to pick you're post apart, but Ion did post this on the last page:
Yeah, I know. But I'm going back to several months. It was only last summer when R/E was king with huge appreciation. Things are slowly changing. I think by Jan. we'll actually see some YOY decreases.

[Classic Daycruiser]

I've seen the word "correction" in many posts lately in regards to real estate. That word is used instead of just stating that values are dropping. One can say that the value of my house is "correcting" and I'm fine with that. The artificial/appraised value of my home is still higher than what I paid for it so I really don't care.
But.......What do you say to those people who bought a house in January of this year when the prices were at their highest artificial level? Technically, they have lost money on the deal....do you still use the word correction to them?
The reason I ask is that I called up my Havasu Realtor yesterday and was asking about the market up there since I'll be buying soon. She stated it is really soft(does this make her a liar to those realtors on the board?). In order to put this in persective, I asked her about the house I sold in February. The new owner has had a real tough time there since the time he bought it and wanted to unload it, not a tough time financially as he bought the house cash but physically(heat, marriage, etc.). He can't unload it for $40,000 less than he bought it from me. Do realtors just tell him, don't worry, it's a correction.....at this time, what do realtors say to a person in this situation? Nobody has yet to state that it is/was a bad time to buy real estate.
edit: We all "know" where real estate is going, I just wanted some insight on the use of the word "correction" with this post and what one can say to clients who bought at the "wrong" time.
It's a "Soft market", you bought during a strong market. Correction seems like someone make a mistake. Real estate "always" goes up in general...4% a year. In 25 years it should double.

[Rexone]

It's a "Soft market", you bought during a strong market. Correction seems like someone make a mistake. Real estate "always" goes up in general...4% a year. In 25 years it should double.
IMO someone did make a mistake. The mortgage industry is on top of the list for lending tactics that strongly encouraged folks to buy beyond their means with i/o and neg/am loans. They sold loans that were all about payment amount on what people could "presently" barely afford with little regard to the fact their loan principal was increasing (in the case of neg/am) and their payment would likely balloon into something they couldn't afford down the road. The banks are second in line for accepting these types of loans, accepting stated income in many cases, etc, etc. The the real estate agents had a part too for encouraging all of the above knowing perfectly well the end result. BTW all of the above was/is driven by greed, (big loan fees, big commissions, etc) that would barely be noticed in a time of rapidly inflating home values. Just telling it like it is and I'm sure those in these industries will flame my ass for it but it won't be the first time. :rollside:
Then there the borrowers in the group that went along with all of the above to engage in the "keep up with the Jone's" syndrome, more houses, excessive toys, all bought with home equity that was largely falsely inflated. They're also part of the mistake if they have no reserves to cover the down cycle and were relying on continued false inflation of their home values to carry the load.
Yes it should double in 25 years, like most other things do. But for the most part it recently doubled in 2 years. That's a mistake. What's occurring now is the correction. People in these industries will sugar coat it many ways but this is the reality.

[totenhosen]

IMO someone did make a mistake. The mortgage industry is on top of the list for lending tactics that strongly encouraged folks to buy beyond their means with i/o and neg/am loans. They sold loans that were all about payment amount on what people could "presently" barely afford with little regard to the fact their loan principal was increasing (in the case of neg/am) and their payment would likely balloon into something they couldn't afford down the road. The banks are second in line for accepting these types of loans, accepting stated income in many cases, etc, etc. The the real estate agents had a part too for encouraging all of the above knowing perfectly well the end result. BTW all of the above was/is driven by greed, (big loan fees, big commissions, etc) that would barely be noticed in a time of rapidly inflating home values. Just telling it like it is and I'm sure those in these industries will flame my ass for it but it won't be the first time. :rollside:
Then there the borrowers in the group that went along with all of the above to engage in the "keep up with the Jone's" syndrome, more houses, excessive toys, all bought with home equity that was largely falsely inflated. They're also part of the mistake if they have no reserves to cover the down cycle and were relying on continued false inflation of their home values to carry the load.
Yes it should double in 25 years, like most other things do. But for the most part it recently doubled in 2 years. That's a mistake. What's occurring now is the correction. People in these industries will sugar coat it many ways but this is the reality.
Amen! Greed and ignorance caused the inflated values. After the fall out I expect the government to change the way the mortgage industry and realtors etc are regulated. Far too easy to get licensed. Compare it say to a guy having to get his series 7 or ???. There are few good people working in the industry and far too many dumb asses. (I bet most of the realtors on this board would agree wiht me)

[YeLLowBoaT]

IMO someone did make a mistake. The mortgage industry is on top of the list for lending tactics that strongly encouraged folks to buy beyond their means with i/o and neg/am loans. They sold loans that were all about payment amount on what people could "presently" barely afford with little regard to the fact their loan principal was increasing (in the case of neg/am) and their payment would likely balloon into something they couldn't afford down the road. The banks are second in line for accepting these types of loans, accepting stated income in many cases, etc, etc. The the real estate agents had a part too for encouraging all of the above knowing perfectly well the end result. BTW all of the above was/is driven by greed, (big loan fees, big commissions, etc) that would barely be noticed in a time of rapidly inflating home values. Just telling it like it is and I'm sure those in these industries will flame my ass for it but it won't be the first time. :rollside:
Then there the borrowers in the group that went along with all of the above to engage in the "keep up with the Jone's" syndrome, more houses, excessive toys, all bought with home equity that was largely falsely inflated. They're also part of the mistake if they have no reserves to cover the down cycle and were relying on continued false inflation of their home values to carry the load.
Yes it should double in 25 years, like most other things do. But for the most part it recently doubled in 2 years. That's a mistake. What's occurring now is the correction. People in these industries will sugar coat it many ways but this is the reality.
What he said

[boatsnblondes]

What he said
I agree, when I first started to shop the loan on this house, EVERYONE I talked to was shouting NEGAM!! NEGAM!!! I did some research, figured it out quick, and never talked to those people again. I would be very interested to know how many folks are in default who have a negam loan....

[totenhosen]

I agree, when I first started to shop the loan on this house, EVERYONE I talked to was shouting NEGAM!! NEGAM!!! I did some research, figured it out quick, and never talked to those people again. I would be very interested to know how many folks are in default who have a negam loan....
Not too many yet. With huge appreciation gains the last few years people who got into trouble have been able to sell w/o too many issues. Now that the market is going the other way and rates are rising we'll start seeing more defaults/issues.

[kanedog]

dumb asses in the real estate industry? nah, couldn't be.

[Rexone]

I had a neg/am loan 11 years ago. I had it for 5 years and refinanced out of it when the I/O phase ended. It served it's purpose for me at the time and was during a period of very moderate appreciation. They can work for the right reasons. Unfortunately during the last couple years a large majority of neg/am loans were pushed for the wrong reasons (to make a deal happen even though the buyer was in over his head).
I replaced that neg/am loan with an ARM. Again still moderate appreciation time. This loan also served it purpose for me and I refinanced out of it about a year ago when the payment started taking off upward.
All these types of loans were ok if used and planned properly when to get in one and when to get out. The problem is when they were used for the wrong reasons (to make a deal happen with borrowers too naive to know what's up), or with all focus on low payments and pulling home equity for other aquisitions that weren't income returning (2nd homes, toys, fancy vacations, etc).
The problem now is with home values rapidly declining in many areas people will be upside down in these loans and won't be able to refinance out of them because of neg equity to loan value. Payments will continue to rise when the I/O phases out and homes in some cases will be worth a fraction of the principal balance on the loan. So they either have the income and reserve to bail on the loan and refi in spite of the neg equity (refi and pay the difference), or continue to pay on the existing loan, or they go upside down and lose the home.
That's the reality and has been largely encouraged by the mortgage and real estate industries to "make deals happen" regardless of the long term best interest of the client. In othe cases I'm sure the client insisted and pushed the deal to happen to gut the equity out to spend. Either way the result is the same when the market corrects.

[boatsnblondes]

Rex, I totally agree....but who do these people go to when they lose theyre house because some loan officer slam dunked them into a shitty loan so he could go to Vegas that weekend??? Buyer beware was never so true, huh bro?

[Rexone]

Rex, I totally agree....but who do these people go to when they lose theyre house because some loan officer slam dunked them into a shitty loan so he could go to Vegas that weekend??? Buyer beware was never so true, huh bro?
Well now that's a damn good question. A lot of loans are out there that shouldn't have been made imo.
The experience I had on the ARM loan I mentioned above was quite interesting. I went through Lendingtree.com and ended up getting the loan through one of their referrals because I didn't know any loan people at the time. What a friggin joke. The guy was all over it until everything was done and it was time to fund, then he somehow became somewhat hard to reach. Took me about a month longer than promised to get er done hounding him with phone calls at the end. I will NEVER go that route again, even though the loan was a decent one for me at the time, the cs of the loan jockey just sucked. Plus he nailed me pretty hard on the fees (that weren't part of the original sales pitch) looking back and being more educated now.

[Rexone]

Now here's some real new news.... (http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20060929/ts_csm/avulnerable) :rolleyes:

[C-2]

Come on Rex....
It's Not True
It's Not True
IT'S NOT TRUE
Everything is fine and the market has only slowed a little. When people start walking and homes go into foreclosure...it will have ZERO impact on the market. Repeat, ZERO
.
.
.
..... I make money in a depressed economy, and I gotta tell ya, I'm getting excited. http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1132woowoo.gif
.
.
.

[locogringo]

Didn't think this thread was still going on but since it is...
that article from RexOne is dead on. The crash which is indubidably on its way will be far worse than the 80's just based off of all these facts.
I will preict here though that within the next year max, you will be able to get a fixed 30 year mortgage in the mid 4% range in an effort to bail out the mess but it'l be short lived. Just my prediction nothing else.
Carry on...

[locogringo]

Come on Rex....
It's Not True
It's Not True
IT'S NOT TRUE
Everything is fine and the market has only slowed a little. When people start walking and homes go into foreclosure...it will have ZERO impact on the market. Repeat, ZERO
.
.
.
..... I make money in a depressed economy, and I gotta tell ya, I'm getting excited. http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1132woowoo.gif
.
.
.
Me 2 C2. Though it is sad dealing with some of these people's mess and circumstances, it was bound to happen sooner or later.

[CP Dad]

How can people possibly say the slump is over? The rates are still at a 40 year low. What happens when they go up a couple points????? Then throw an 8 year record high on new forclosures, and the result aint pretty. I was out in BHC this weekend talking with a few builders to throw up a shack on my lot in Willow Valley. Every one of them said this time last year they all had 20 plus homes under construction. This year same time, the highest was 6. We're no where near the end of this................

[C-2]

Me 2 C2. Though it is sad dealing with some of these people's mess and circumstances, it was bound to happen sooner or later.
Yup, I hear ya. We ran all the front-end foreclosure work for Home Savings - literally 30 files a DAY rolled across our desks for about three years straight (but a non-stop, 5-6 year run altogether).
I said I would never do the work again - but fawk it, somebody's gotta do it, and at least I'm nice about it.
I'm trying to get back in the game as we type! IMPAC is also tear-assing after all the bad loan originators, that's also keeping me pretty busy.

[locogringo]

Yup, I hear ya. We ran all the front-end foreclosure work for Home Savings - literally 30 files a DAY rolled across our desks for about three years straight (but a non-stop, 5-6 year run altogether).
I said I would never do the work again - but fawk it, somebody's gotta do it, and at least I'm nice about it.
I'm trying to get back in the game as we type! IMPAC is also tear-assing after all the bad loan originators, that's also keeping me pretty busy.
I'd be interested in talking to you. I am currently purchasing between 7-10 pre-foreclosures per month and subsequently working short sales on them. Have a few REO departments I am directly in-sync with and feel that in another 6-9 months from now, the REO department will be wiling to talk logically, if you know what I mean.

[homelessinaz]

It doesn't surprise me that you righty types are now all aghast because of this development.
Let me guess, you all went out in the boom times (2003-2005) and financed a bunch of things with home equity loans on your stucco desert boxes, in spite of the obvious indicators that this Bush administration "boom" economy was all a sham, right?
I'll bet you all TIVO'd "Your World With Neil Cavuto" and slept better at night, didn't you?
Now it's time to pay the piper, and you are all put out. You can't give tax cuts to the wealthy and encourage deficit spending and expect to produce a solid economy. In short, you all are screwed.
Fortunately for me and my tribe, we have been anticipating this "correction" (which should actually be called an indictment of the powers that be, secretary of the treasury all the way up to your beloved W), and we have planned accordingly.
I know your story; you took out a $200,000 mortgage, saw your property value rise to $320,000, figured you had at least $100,000 to play with and went out and bought the following items with a home equity loan:
A Fat Boy,
A tight ass MoHo,
A really tight Suburban with rims and a bumpin' system,
A new top for your boat,
A lift kit for your "rig",
A one year membership at the tanning salon for your trophy wife,
Season tickets to some team that plays a sport in the general vicinity of where you pay property taxes...
Now, your house is worth LESS that what you owe on it (thanks to your Dubyah'esque financial senses), and you all want to blame the (get ready for this) Lib'Ril Medee-Yahh fer talkin' down th' e'kon uh mee, right?
Fret away, righty ***boat people, but if you had a progresive perspective you'd have seen this coming.
Idiots.
P.S. Don't forget to shop at Wal-Mart and hate Homosexuals and "Illegal Aliens" on your way home tonight in your big gas sucking SUV's while you listen to Sean Hannity.

[Rexone]

It doesn't surprise me that you righty types are now all aghast because of this development.
Let me guess, you all went out in the boom times (2003-2005) and financed a bunch of things with home equity loans on your stucco desert boxes, in spite of the obvious indicators that this Bush administration "boom" economy was all a sham, right?
I'll bet you all TIVO'd "Your World With Neil Cavuto" and slept better at night, didn't you?
Now it's time to pay the piper, and you are all put out. You can't give tax cuts to the wealthy and encourage deficit spending and expect to produce a solid economy. In short, you all are screwed.
Fortunately for me and my tribe, we have been anticipating this "correction" (which should actually be called an indictment of the powers that be, secretary of the treasury all the way up to your beloved W), and we have planned accordingly.
I know your story; you took out a $200,000 mortgage, saw your property value rise to $320,000, figured you had at least $100,000 to play with and went out and bought the following items with a home equity loan:
A Fat Boy,
A tight ass MoHo,
A really tight Suburban with rims and a bumpin' system,
A new top for your boat,
A lift kit for your "rig",
A one year membership at the tanning salon for your trophy wife,
Season tickets to some team that plays a sport in the general vicinity of where you pay property taxes...
Now, your house is worth LESS that what you owe on it (thanks to your Dubyah'esque financial senses), and you all want to blame the (get ready for this) Lib'Ril Medee-Yahh fer talkin' down th' e'kon uh mee, right?
Fret away, righty ***boat people, but if you had a progresive perspective you'd have seen this coming.
Idiots.
P.S. Don't forget to shop at Wal-Mart and hate Homosexuals and "Illegal Aliens" on your way home tonight in your big gas sucking SUV's while you listen to Sean Hannity.
You snuck in just under the wire to win the Most Arrogant Off Target Post award for ***boat for Sept. Good job dude.

[cruser]

Homeless,
Can I really get all that for just a $100k? Cool.

[CBadDad]

Homeless, were the fock did that come from???
Oh wait a sec, it was posted at 2a.m.
You must have been drunk off your ass.
How's the overhang this mornin'?

[bigq]

It doesn't surprise me that you righty types are now all aghast because of this development.
Let me guess, you all went out in the boom times (2003-2005) and financed a bunch of things with home equity loans on your stucco desert boxes, in spite of the obvious indicators that this Bush administration "boom" economy was all a sham, right?
I'll bet you all TIVO'd "Your World With Neil Cavuto" and slept better at night, didn't you?
Now it's time to pay the piper, and you are all put out. You can't give tax cuts to the wealthy and encourage deficit spending and expect to produce a solid economy. In short, you all are screwed.
Fortunately for me and my tribe, we have been anticipating this "correction" (which should actually be called an indictment of the powers that be, secretary of the treasury all the way up to your beloved W), and we have planned accordingly.
I know your story; you took out a $200,000 mortgage, saw your property value rise to $320,000, figured you had at least $100,000 to play with and went out and bought the following items with a home equity loan:
A Fat Boy,
A tight ass MoHo,
A really tight Suburban with rims and a bumpin' system,
A new top for your boat,
A lift kit for your "rig",
A one year membership at the tanning salon for your trophy wife,
Season tickets to some team that plays a sport in the general vicinity of where you pay property taxes...
Now, your house is worth LESS that what you owe on it (thanks to your Dubyah'esque financial senses), and you all want to blame the (get ready for this) Lib'Ril Medee-Yahh fer talkin' down th' e'kon uh mee, right?
Fret away, righty ***boat people, but if you had a progresive perspective you'd have seen this coming.
Idiots.
P.S. Don't forget to shop at Wal-Mart and hate Homosexuals and "Illegal Aliens" on your way home tonight in your big gas sucking SUV's while you listen to Sean Hannity.
Ah… another tortured soul furious at the world for their own misfortune. Seems always easier to blame someone else...Victocrat?

[SHOTKALLIN]

thats more like 300k

[HM]

Burst, correction, or ........????? Is it coming, is it not? No one knows for sure. Just be smart at buying right now. Be prepared to survive 7-10 years and you will be fine, even if you bought at inflated prices. 20 years down the road you will be kicking yourself for not buying more "inflated and artificially high" homes - they will seem like bargains.
A lot of people caught up in a short window of time regarding real estate - and ignore the over all history of real estate. There is nothing new here. Circumstances are different from the last burst. Now is the time to work on your long game if you are buying homes at market prices.

[Misogynist]

I remember the last big "burst" in Los Angeles... A small one in 1991..... and huge one in 1994.... Right after the Northridge earthquake. Foreclosures on damaged homes were at an all time high. You could pick up a damaged home for about 120 thousand. Today's market... even after the correction... 600 thousand. But... you have to think... If any of you are in construction, then you know that some of these overpriced pieces of $hit aren't worth the money. If the structure can be built for 150 to 200 thousand... where in the hell do they think they can get 400 thousand for a chunk of dirt 50 feet by 100 feet?.... I think too many people bought into the Carlton Sheets idea of making money and the market was overheated by fools. The sad part is at some point people realize that a 600 thousand dollar home is really worth about 350 thousand and refuse to buy such an overpriced dwelling. The market softens and sales fall. It's the old adage..... Don't ever try and catch a falling knife. Wait until it hits the ground then pick it up.

[SHOTKALLIN]

There has got to be at least 12 big new condo style apartment complexes built or still under construction in my town. I think they are being built for a reason.

[homelessinaz]

You snuck in just under the wire to win the Most Arrogant Off Target Post award for ***boat for Sept. Good job dude.
I'm sorry, I just love hearing Republicans cry and fret over money everytime a bull market comes crashing down around them.

[homelessinaz]

Homeless,
Can I really get all that for just a $100k? Cool.
What are you, new around here? You don't actually buy the whole item, you make a 20% downpayment and finance the rest, based on the assumption that Lord W will give another tax break to the wealthy sometime soon.

[homelessinaz]

Ah… another tortured soul furious at the world for their own misfortune. Seems always easier to blame someone else...Victocrat?
Actually, I have down quite well thank you. I went in on a new build with some of my living mates in 2000 and we've managed to gain quite a bit of equity. The difference is, we didn't run out and buy gas guzzling SUV's in light of our newfound prosperity. Instead, we made safe, long term investments in ethical companies that have held their value a lot better than your homes have.
If anyone is a victim here, it's all of you folks who believed that a large box made of stucco and chicken wire wrapped around some foam was really worth $400,000 after you paid $250,000 for it. You must've been too busy patting yourself on the back for being such a financial wizard to consider the possibility of a "correction" in the market.

[4DAY4PLAY]

Actually, I have down quite well thank you. I went in on a new build with some of my living mates in 2000 and we've managed to gain quite a bit of equity. The difference is, we didn't run out and buy gas guzzling SUV's in light of our newfound prosperity. Instead, we made safe, long term investments in ethical companies that have held their value a lot better than your homes have.
If anyone is a victim here, it's all of you folks who believed that a large box made of stucco and chicken wire wrapped around some foam was really worth $400,000 after you paid $250,000 for it. You must've been too busy patting yourself on the back for being such a financial wizard to consider the possibility of a "correction" in the market.
I would comment, but scum like you isnt even worth my time....

[bigq]

If anyone is a victim here, it's all of you folks who believed that a large box made of stucco and chicken wire wrapped around some foam was really worth $400,000 after you paid $250,000 for it. You must've been too busy patting yourself on the back for being such a financial wizard to consider the possibility of a "correction" in the market.
I agree somewhat , but even worse is people now that pay 400k for a piece of crap makes no sense to me, but what do I know, i'm renting.

[Troy McClure]

Actually, I have down quite well thank you. I went in on a new build with some of my living mates in 2000 and we've managed to gain quite a bit of equity. The difference is, we didn't run out and buy gas guzzling SUV's in light of our newfound prosperity. Instead, we made safe, long term investments in ethical companies that have held their value a lot better than your homes have.
If anyone is a victim here, it's all of you folks who believed that a large box made of stucco and chicken wire wrapped around some foam was really worth $400,000 after you paid $250,000 for it. You must've been too busy patting yourself on the back for being such a financial wizard to consider the possibility of a "correction" in the market.
You sure you're a Libertarian? I think you're a Democrat and well, let's be honest; no one really wants to be one of those, so you call yourself a Libertarian. Apparently you hate Republicans because you think they are all wealthy and, of course, only the Wealthy get tax breaks. Those wealthy republicans go out and buy boats with noisy motors and scare all the little fishes in the water and goats on the shore. Again, you hate them for this (a trait usually associated with the Dem's). Those pesky Republican's are also the one's that are buying property and taking ALL the equity out. Not ONE Democrat has done this. So It’s all the “Righty's” causing the prob's?
Let's review. You seem to despise the "Right", your views are that of the "Left", therefore you are a Libertarian? NOPE, you’re a Democrat.
From the Libertarian Website:
Are Libertarians liberal or conservative?
“Libertarians are neither. Unlike liberals or conservatives, Libertarians advocate a high degree of both personal and economic liberty. For example, Libertarians agree with conservatives about freedom in economic matters, so we're in favor of lowering taxes, slashing bureaucratic regulation of business, and charitable -- rather than government -- welfare. But Libertarians also agree with liberals on personal tolerance, so we're in favor of people’s right to choose their own personal habits and lifestyles.”
Did you read anything about the Libertarian party before you joined???
Hope that clears everything up for you, now go back to planting trees or saving the Green Spotted, Purple Headed, Moss Eating Mosquito, or just go bash some Republican's.
Dumbazz.

[Troy McClure]

Damn, after writing that last post, my Cuban cigar burnt down and fell out of the ashtray in my Bentley. Burnt a hole in the carpet, now I'm going to have to go out and buy another one. Maybe I'll get a different color this time...

[Tom Slick]

Damn, after writing that last post, my Cuban cigar burnt down and fell out of the ashtray in my Bentley. Burnt a hole in the carpet, now I'm going to have to go out and buy another one. Maybe I'll get a different color this time...
NICE!!! :D

[Rexone]

I'm going down and withdraw what's left of my home equity and hit the Bahamas for a few months. You guys have a nice winter. I've ordered a new SUV with lift kit and supercharger and 38 foot cigarette boat and am having them shipped there to drive around. I figure by the time I return home prices will have taken off again and my vacation will be free.
If it doesn't work out I can just blame Bush, re-register as homelessinca, jump on an entitlement program, the bank can suck on my foreclosed house, and I'll just stay in the Bahamas with my tribe of 5 hot chicks I'm taking with me.
You know how us righty's do it.

[AirtimeLavey]

You sure you're a Libertarian? I think you're a Democrat and well, let's be honest; no one really wants to be one of those, so you call yourself a Libertarian. Apparently you hate Republicans because you think they are all wealthy and, of course, only the Wealthy get tax breaks. Those wealthy republicans go out and buy boats with noisy motors and scare all the little fishes in the water and goats on the shore. Again, you hate them for this (a trait usually associated with the Dem's). Those pesky Republican's are also the one's that are buying property and taking ALL the equity out. Not ONE Democrat has done this. So It’s all the “Righty's” causing the prob's?
Let's review. You seem to despise the "Right", your views are that of the "Left", therefore you are a Libertarian? NOPE, you’re a Democrat.
From the Libertarian Website:
Are Libertarians liberal or conservative?
“Libertarians are neither. Unlike liberals or conservatives, Libertarians advocate a high degree of both personal and economic liberty. For example, Libertarians agree with conservatives about freedom in economic matters, so we're in favor of lowering taxes, slashing bureaucratic regulation of business, and charitable -- rather than government -- welfare. But Libertarians also agree with liberals on personal tolerance, so we're in favor of people’s right to choose their own personal habits and lifestyles.”
Did you read anything about the Libertarian party before you joined???
Hope that clears everything up for you, now go back to planting trees or saving the Green Spotted, Purple Headed, Moss Eating Mosquito, or just go bash some Republican's.
Dumbazz.
You're not trying to use logic and rationale from the real world with this guy, are you? It doesn't work with them. Too busy chasing butterflies....smoking weed, and blaming somebody else for everything they don't like.... :cry: :rolleyes:

[burtandnancy]

I'll go out on a bit of a limb and suggest that the balloon did not burst, that there was only a slight glitch in the SO CAL market. Within a few short months, the local market will again go to new record highs. Fortunately for me all the real investments I made were 25 years ago (on average) and it would take a complete financial breakdown to hurt me...

[wsuwrhr]

Can I come with?
Please....
Brian
I'm going down and withdraw what's left of my home equity and hit the Bahamas for a few months. You guys have a nice winter. I've ordered a new SUV with lift kit and supercharger and 38 foot cigarette boat and am having them shipped there to drive around. I figure by the time I return home prices will have taken off again and my vacation will be free.
If it doesn't work out I can just blame Bush, re-register as homelessinca, jump on an entitlement program, the bank can suck on my foreclosed house, and I'll just stay in the Bahamas with my tribe of 5 hot chicks I'm taking with me.
You know how us righty's do it.

[phebus]

Actually, I have down quite well thank you. I went in on a new build with some of my living mates in 2000 and we've managed to gain quite a bit of equity.
What the hell is a living mate? On second thought, nevermind, I don't want to know. :rolleyes:

[4DAY4PLAY]

[QUOTE]living mate?
Thats gay

[Rexone]

Better than non-living mates. They really stink the place up and drive values down.

[CBadDad]

I'll go out on a bit of a limb and suggest that the balloon did not burst, that there was only a slight glitch in the SO CAL market. Within a few short months, the local market will again go to new record highs. Fortunately for me all the real investments I made were 25 years ago (on average) and it would take a complete financial breakdown to hurt me...
Glad you're investments were a while back and they're doing good, but if you think that SoCal had a "slight glitch" then you haven't been paying attention. SoCal is the only market that has had only minor slowing and depreciation. The rest of the nation is sliding fast. SoCal will catch up next year, and I predict, pass up the rest of the nation in '08.
If anybody wants to buy now (or recently bought, you'll be O.K. if you can hang on till 2020.

[CBadDad]

What the hell is a living mate? On second thought, nevermind, I don't want to know. :rolleyes:
I figured he lived in a commune.

[Trailer Park Casanova]

Glad you're investments were a while back and they're doing good, but if you think that SoCal had a "slight glitch" then you haven't been paying attention. SoCal is the only market that has had only minor slowing and depreciation. The rest of the nation is sliding fast. SoCal will catch up next year, and I predict, pass up the rest of the nation in '08.
If anybody wants to buy now (or recently bought, you'll be O.K. if you can hang on till 2020.
K&B and several other big builders in Las Vegas dropped all their options on property for new starts.
Most the big high rise condo projects have returned the deposits to buyers and folded too.

[AFD]

Glad you're investments were a while back and they're doing good, but if you think that SoCal had a "slight glitch" then you haven't been paying attention. SoCal is the only market that has had only minor slowing and depreciation. The rest of the nation is sliding fast. SoCal will catch up next year, and I predict, pass up the rest of the nation in '08.
If anybody wants to buy now (or recently bought, you'll be O.K. if you can hang on till 2020.
There are a few places in Ca that have gone down a bit in value, but for the most part I agree with you. We have some family friends who's son bought a home in Lakeside, seems he's a bit in the red after six months but not suprising for that area.

[locogringo]

You sure you're a Libertarian? I think you're a Democrat and well, let's be honest; no one really wants to be one of those, so you call yourself a Libertarian. Apparently you hate Republicans because you think they are all wealthy and, of course, only the Wealthy get tax breaks. Those wealthy republicans go out and buy boats with noisy motors and scare all the little fishes in the water and goats on the shore. Again, you hate them for this (a trait usually associated with the Dem's). Those pesky Republican's are also the one's that are buying property and taking ALL the equity out. Not ONE Democrat has done this. So It’s all the “Righty's” causing the prob's?
Let's review. You seem to despise the "Right", your views are that of the "Left", therefore you are a Libertarian? NOPE, you’re a Democrat.
From the Libertarian Website:
Are Libertarians liberal or conservative?
“Libertarians are neither. Unlike liberals or conservatives, Libertarians advocate a high degree of both personal and economic liberty. For example, Libertarians agree with conservatives about freedom in economic matters, so we're in favor of lowering taxes, slashing bureaucratic regulation of business, and charitable -- rather than government -- welfare. But Libertarians also agree with liberals on personal tolerance, so we're in favor of people’s right to choose their own personal habits and lifestyles.”
Did you read anything about the Libertarian party before you joined???
Hope that clears everything up for you, now go back to planting trees or saving the Green Spotted, Purple Headed, Moss Eating Mosquito, or just go bash some Republican's.
Dumbazz.
Greatest post I've read in a while but it is falling on his deaf ears becasue his head is so far up the lebert-democrats asses.

[Old Texan]

Actually, I have down quite well thank you. I went in on a new build with some of my living mates in 2000 and we've managed to gain quite a bit of equity. The difference is, we didn't run out and buy gas guzzling SUV's in light of our newfound prosperity. Instead, we made safe, long term investments in ethical companies that have held their value a lot better than your homes have.
If anyone is a victim here, it's all of you folks who believed that a large box made of stucco and chicken wire wrapped around some foam was really worth $400,000 after you paid $250,000 for it. You must've been too busy patting yourself on the back for being such a financial wizard to consider the possibility of a "correction" in the market.
Why we all certainly appreciate your lil' ol' opinion there Tinkerbell. Now go back and have a "sip" with your lil' playmates so you can take your nap and have plenty of energy tonite for that rousing game of "hide the wienie" you and your mates fancy so much. :crossx:

[Old Texan]

I wonder how many "canoes" get "Wake swamped" out on the lake tommorrow by big Azz Power Boats hoping they just sunk "homelessASSinaz"?
See what you went and done now ya little Fairy F'r...... :cool:

[FREIND OF AA AND TA]

Why we all certainly appreciate your lil' ol' opinion there Tinkerbell. Now go back and have a "sip" with your lil' playmates so you can take your nap and have plenty of energy tonite for that rousing game of "hide the wienie" you and your mates fancy so much. :crossx:
Thats :rollside:

[essexjet]

It doesn't surprise me that you righty types are now all aghast because of this development.
Let me guess, you all went out in the boom times (2003-2005) and financed a bunch of things with home equity loans on your stucco desert boxes, in spite of the obvious indicators that this Bush administration "boom" economy was all a sham, right?
I'll bet you all TIVO'd "Your World With Neil Cavuto" and slept better at night, didn't you?
Now it's time to pay the piper, and you are all put out. You can't give tax cuts to the wealthy and encourage deficit spending and expect to produce a solid economy. In short, you all are screwed.
Fortunately for me and my tribe, we have been anticipating this "correction" (which should actually be called an indictment of the powers that be, secretary of the treasury all the way up to your beloved W), and we have planned accordingly.
I know your story; you took out a $200,000 mortgage, saw your property value rise to $320,000, figured you had at least $100,000 to play with and went out and bought the following items with a home equity loan:
A Fat Boy,
A tight ass MoHo,
A really tight Suburban with rims and a bumpin' system,
A new top for your boat,
A lift kit for your "rig",
A one year membership at the tanning salon for your trophy wife,
Season tickets to some team that plays a sport in the general vicinity of where you pay property taxes...
Now, your house is worth LESS that what you owe on it (thanks to your Dubyah'esque financial senses), and you all want to blame the (get ready for this) Lib'Ril Medee-Yahh fer talkin' down th' e'kon uh mee, right?
Fret away, righty ***boat people, but if you had a progresive perspective you'd have seen this coming.
Idiots.
P.S. Don't forget to shop at Wal-Mart and hate Homosexuals and "Illegal Aliens" on your way home tonight in your big gas sucking SUV's while you listen to Sean Hannity.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1905cartmann.gif

[homelessinaz]

You sure you're a Libertarian? I think you're a Democrat and well, let's be honest; no one really wants to be one of those, so you call yourself a Libertarian. Apparently you hate Republicans because you think they are all wealthy and, of course, only the Wealthy get tax breaks. Those wealthy republicans go out and buy boats with noisy motors and scare all the little fishes in the water and goats on the shore. Again, you hate them for this (a trait usually associated with the Dem's). Those pesky Republican's are also the one's that are buying property and taking ALL the equity out. Not ONE Democrat has done this. So It’s all the “Righty's” causing the prob's?
Let's review. You seem to despise the "Right", your views are that of the "Left", therefore you are a Libertarian? NOPE, you’re a Democrat.
From the Libertarian Website:
Are Libertarians liberal or conservative?
“Libertarians are neither. Unlike liberals or conservatives, Libertarians advocate a high degree of both personal and economic liberty. For example, Libertarians agree with conservatives about freedom in economic matters, so we're in favor of lowering taxes, slashing bureaucratic regulation of business, and charitable -- rather than government -- welfare. But Libertarians also agree with liberals on personal tolerance, so we're in favor of people’s right to choose their own personal habits and lifestyles.”
Did you read anything about the Libertarian party before you joined???
Hope that clears everything up for you, now go back to planting trees or saving the Green Spotted, Purple Headed, Moss Eating Mosquito, or just go bash some Republican's.
Dumbazz.
Bash some Republican's what? Don't you know the proper use of the apostrophe?
From the unt.edu website:
Apostrophe
Use an apostrophe to show that letters have been omitted from contractions.
Example:
The Caprice can't touch the Mustang as an interceptor.
Use an apostrophe to show that the first two numbers have been omitted from a year.
Example:
The '95 Mustang was the best.
Use an apostrophe to form the plural of letters and numbers. The apostrophe is not needed when making centuries and decades plural: 1880s and 1400s.
Example:
That kid painted a bunch of ten's on the wall before he saw us.
Use an apostrophe and an 's' to make a singular noun possessive.
Example:
A prisoner's property is restricted to items from the prison store.
To show possession, add an apostrophe and an 's' to a plural noun that does not end in 's.'
Example:
The patrolmen's oaths to uphold the law were questioned by Reverend Sharpton.
When a plural noun ends in 's,' add only an apostrophe to show possession.
Example:
The officers' resented the implication that they were a danger to the community that they served.
The possessive forms of personal pronouns do not have apostrophes.
"Its" describes the property owned by it. "It's" is a contraction for "it is."
In case you missed it, there is nothing in there about using an apostrophe to indicate plurality of a noun or pronoun, which you did 6 times in your last post. At least you cut and pasted the part from the Libertarian website correctly.
It is spelled D-U-M-B-A-S-S.
And you folks actually want to CUT funding for education? With this level of public school performance on display, I think we out to consider spending even MORE!!!
Dumbass.
Now, on to explaining myself. I am actually best described as a Communist, especially in light of the fact that I live in a communal dwelling with about a dozen other Communist minded individuals. I was, for a short time, a disaffected Democrat who registered with the Libertarian Party because I felt the Libertarian Party best reflected my views on social issues such as narcotics laws and equal rights for Homosexual-Americans. If you would have bothered to read the entire Libertarian website you would have seen that they are a "big tent" party, with candidates from both the left and the right sides of the political spectrum. In fact, Libertarians from different regions of the country (let's say New York versus Texas) often hold quite divergent opinions on a number of issues.
The party, due to its relative insignificance in national politics, doesn't have to adopt a national platform to garner votes, because it so seldom receives national attention. It can adopt one viewpoint in one region to siphon away liberal votes from the Democrat party, and it can also siphon away conservative votes by out righting the Republicans.
I was a liberal Libertarian in the last state I lived in because I was tired of seeing that State's Democratic Party members try so hard to pretend they weren't Democrats, so I switched. When I moved to Arizona, I registered Libertarian but later learned how different Arizona Libertarians are from the Libertarians I knew.
Now, huddled down in this Republican stronghold of Arizona, I am forced to choose between bad Libertarians, worse Republicans, and watered down Democrats like Janet Napalitano.
I still voted for Badnarik (he was the Libertarian candidate for president in 2004 election) because he was about the only candidate who was willing to flat out say we were going to end our foreign adventure in Iraq if he was elected.
So, I'm basically a Communist who is registered as a Libertarian but usually splits his vote between Democrats, Libertarians and Independents.
There, that's a grammar lesson and a polical science lesson. You're welcome.
I do not hate anyone, which includes Republicans, but I do feel a bit sorry for them, and perhaps a little bit superior to them. You see, Republicans become Republicans for the same reason Christians become Christians, Jews become Jews and KKK members become KKK members; because their parents were Christians, or Jews, or Klan members or Republicans. Few people decide on their political party based upon thoughtful introspection.
I feel dismayed that the major politcal parties (more often the Republicans than the Democrats) use people's beliefs in imaginary gods, non-existent threats from abroad and, as illustrated in your post stereotyping of me, their fears and pre-conceived notions about each other to get votes.
I don't like the way that both major parties have people convinced that they only have two choices.
Now you can go back to watching WWE Smackdown and fantasizing about Ann Coulter asking you to leave your wife and come live with her in Manhattan.

[homelessinaz]

Why we all certainly appreciate your lil' ol' opinion there Tinkerbell. Now go back and have a "sip" with your lil' playmates so you can take your nap and have plenty of energy tonite for that rousing game of "hide the wienie" you and your mates fancy so much. :crossx:
See, this is what I mean. I explicitly said in my profile that I am NOT a Homosexual-American, because I know most folks on this board would incorrectly assume so right off the bat once they became familiar with me and my living situation. I am not a Homosexual(or Gay)-American. I live with about a dozen livingmates, roughly a third of whom are Women. There are Homosexual-Americans in our tribe, as well as Bi-Sexual-Americans and heterosexuals.
We call each other livingmates because we do so much more with each other than share a room, or a house. We pool assets, labor and skills. Go ahead, make fun of it, you'll just be confirming the stereotype of intolerant right wingers.
Everytime a Republican politician gets in trouble for letting a N word or a "faggot" slip out, you all try to put on the victim hat and claim that you aren't racist or sexist or homophobic; that you are all just victims of a liberal media witch hunt, but look at you!
Look at how you are in your little chatrooms. You're all a bunch of racist, sexist, homophobic right wing stereotypes, and I don't care when you make comments like the ones you have made to me and about me, because it saves me from having to prove your ignorance by allowing you to demonstrate it all on your own.

[C-2]

T-R-O-L-L
Get back to the topic at hand. I could care less about your political and sexual orientations (yes, plural).
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1132gfight.gif

[C-2]

Where's Riodog....I can't wait to see his response. :220v:

[Mandelon]

Look at how you are in your little chatrooms. You're all a bunch of racist, sexist, homophobic right wing stereotypes, and I don't care when you make comments like the ones you have made to me and about me, because it saves me from having to prove your ignorance by allowing you to demonstrate it all on your own.
Nice way to stereotype. :rolleyes: Just by reading your post I can tell you are superior to all of us. Is everyone in the commune....uh....I mean "tribe" as bitter as you are? Why did you even log on to this site? I am sure you have some vegetables that need picking, no? :boxed:

[homelessinaz]

Nice way to stereotype. :rolleyes: Just by reading your post I can tell you are superior to all of us. Is everyone in the commune....uh....I mean "tribe" as bitter as you are? Why did you even log on to this site? I am sure you have some vegetables that need picking, no? :boxed:
Why do I log onto this site? Well, I have to confess, I log onto this site pretty much out of morbid curiosity, as well as professional interest. You see, I am an anthropologist by trade (it's in the dictionary), and I came to Arizona after I was awarded a grant to study the decay of Native American culture. This study took me to several regions, one of which was the area you all refer to as Havasu, which is one of the regions that was once occupied by one of the tribes I am studying.
I am allowed 3 days off a month, and as an avid canoe enthusiast, I tend to spend those days on the Colorado River. This is where I got my first taste of you all, whom I like to refer to as, “The Boater Tribe”.
I found ***boat.com after seeing a man standing in line at a gas station in front of me with t-shirt with the link to this site on it. I jotted down the URL and later visited this website, and then I realized that I had stumbled upon the cultural exchange center of a society I never knew existed.
I am still conducting my Native study, but I only have 3 months left on my grant. After my grant expires (which it likely will), and after I have published my study and undergone review, I plan on directing my anthropological interests towards you all.
That's why I come to ***boat; to watch the animals.

[ratso]

Why do I log onto this site? Well, I have to confess, I log onto this site pretty much out of morbid curiosity, as well as professional interest. You see, I am an anthropologist by trade (it's in the dictionary), and I came to Arizona after I was awarded a grant to study the decay of Native American culture. This study took me to several regions, one of which was the area you all refer to as Havasu, which is one of the regions that was once occupied by one of the tribes I am studying.
I am allowed 3 days off a month, and as an avid canoe enthusiast, I tend to spend those days on the Colorado River. This is where I got my first taste of you all, whom I like to refer to as, “The Boater Tribe”.
I found ***boat.com after seeing a man standing in line at a gas station in front of me with t-shirt with the link to this site on it. I jotted down the URL and later visited this website, and then I realized that I had stumbled upon the cultural exchange center of a society I never knew existed.
I am still conducting my Native study, but I only have 3 months left on my grant. After my grant expires (which it likely will), and after I have published my study and undergone review, I plan on directing my anthropological interests towards you all.
That's why I come to ***boat; to watch the animals.
You joined about a week and a half ago and already have formed your opinion... lmfao... I hope it pays well so you can afford something nicer than a canoe... :D

[callbob4homes]

It is spelled D-U-M-B-A-S-S.
Dumbass.
There, that's a grammar lesson and a polical science lesson. You're welcome.
QUOTE]
You should have used spellcheck before posting this crap skippy. I don't have the time to pick out all of your mis spells, but next time you refer to D U M B A S S , you might look in the mirror first. :rolleyes:

[wsuwrhr]

I can't believe I bothered to read your post.
Brian
Bash some Republican's what? Don't you know the proper use of the apostrophe?
From the unt.edu website:
Apostrophe
Use an apostrophe to show that letters have been omitted from contractions.
Example:
The Caprice can't touch the Mustang as an interceptor.
Use an apostrophe to show that the first two numbers have been omitted from a year.
Example:
The '95 Mustang was the best.
Use an apostrophe to form the plural of letters and numbers. The apostrophe is not needed when making centuries and decades plural: 1880s and 1400s.
Example:
That kid painted a bunch of ten's on the wall before he saw us.
Use an apostrophe and an 's' to make a singular noun possessive.
Example:
A prisoner's property is restricted to items from the prison store.
To show possession, add an apostrophe and an 's' to a plural noun that does not end in 's.'
Example:
The patrolmen's oaths to uphold the law were questioned by Reverend Sharpton.
When a plural noun ends in 's,' add only an apostrophe to show possession.
Example:
The officers' resented the implication that they were a danger to the community that they served.
The possessive forms of personal pronouns do not have apostrophes.
"Its" describes the property owned by it. "It's" is a contraction for "it is."
In case you missed it, there is nothing in there about using an apostrophe to indicate plurality of a noun or pronoun, which you did 6 times in your last post. At least you cut and pasted the part from the Libertarian website correctly.
It is spelled D-U-M-B-A-S-S.
And you folks actually want to CUT funding for education? With this level of public school performance on display, I think we out to consider spending even MORE!!!
Dumbass.
Now, on to explaining myself. I am actually best described as a Communist, especially in light of the fact that I live in a communal dwelling with about a dozen other Communist minded individuals. I was, for a short time, a disaffected Democrat who registered with the Libertarian Party because I felt the Libertarian Party best reflected my views on social issues such as narcotics laws and equal rights for Homosexual-Americans. If you would have bothered to read the entire Libertarian website you would have seen that they are a "big tent" party, with candidates from both the left and the right sides of the political spectrum. In fact, Libertarians from different regions of the country (let's say New York versus Texas) often hold quite divergent opinions on a number of issues.
The party, due to its relative insignificance in national politics, doesn't have to adopt a national platform to garner votes, because it so seldom receives national attention. It can adopt one viewpoint in one region to siphon away liberal votes from the Democrat party, and it can also siphon away conservative votes by out righting the Republicans.
I was a liberal Libertarian in the last state I lived in because I was tired of seeing that State's Democratic Party members try so hard to pretend they weren't Democrats, so I switched. When I moved to Arizona, I registered Libertarian but later learned how different Arizona Libertarians are from the Libertarians I knew.
Now, huddled down in this Republican stronghold of Arizona, I am forced to choose between bad Libertarians, worse Republicans, and watered down Democrats like Janet Napalitano.
I still voted for Badnarik (he was the Libertarian candidate for president in 2004 election) because he was about the only candidate who was willing to flat out say we were going to end our foreign adventure in Iraq if he was elected.
So, I'm basically a Communist who is registered as a Libertarian but usually splits his vote between Democrats, Libertarians and Independents.
There, that's a grammar lesson and a polical science lesson. You're welcome.
I do not hate anyone, which includes Republicans, but I do feel a bit sorry for them, and perhaps a little bit superior to them. You see, Republicans become Republicans for the same reason Christians become Christians, Jews become Jews and KKK members become KKK members; because their parents were Christians, or Jews, or Klan members or Republicans. Few people decide on their political party based upon thoughtful introspection.
I feel dismayed that the major politcal parties (more often the Republicans than the Democrats) use people's beliefs in imaginary gods, non-existent threats from abroad and, as illustrated in your post stereotyping of me, their fears and pre-conceived notions about each other to get votes.
I don't like the way that both major parties have people convinced that they only have two choices.
Now you can go back to watching WWE Smackdown and fantasizing about Ann Coulter asking you to leave your wife and come live with her in Manhattan.

[wsuwrhr]

"Back to the subject at hand"
Brian

[phebus]

So, go buy the new tennis shoes, and the Kool Aid, and then you and your fellow cult members can put an end to this thread..........

[Troy McClure]

Don't you know the proper use of the apostrophe?
That's you're retort? You misspelled about ten words in you're post.
If you need the kool aid recipe, I'm sure a google search would bring it up.
Dumbazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Boozer]

I just got done reading a financial report that said for the first time in 11 years property values have dropped in the Denver Metro area. In some areas condos that were selling for 135-145K 2 years ago are now all bank owned and being sold for 45-55K. My mother bought her home just shy of 3 years ago for 190K and it is now valued at about 170K. As long as she has no intentions of selling in the next few years I think she will be just fine, not to mention she's in a much better position then those who bought similar houses in the same neighborhood a little over a year ago for 215K.
For those of you feeling so gloom and doom there is certainly light at the end of the tunnel. If you take some time to educate yourself you will see that times like now can be an investors dream. In the last 2 months a friend and myself have made well over 6 figures by making a few smart plays, we never spent a penny of our own money. Now that we have the money to spend we are expecting 7 figures within a year maybe 2 at most.
3 months ago I could barely afford to make my car note. Today the car is paid for, I'm closing on my personal home in 3 weeks, and owning my first ***boat is looking more and more like a realistic possibility by the day, not to mention I'm not living paycheck to paycheck anymore and that's the best possible feeling in the world. Who says there's no money in R/E?

[CBadDad]

Boozer, what are you doing trying to get this topic back on track? I'm glad you're doing well, but for heavens sake man, start a new thread to tell us all about it. We're too busy making fun of the troll here to listen to you... :)

[bigq]

I just got done reading a financial report that said for the first time in 11 years property values have dropped in the Denver Metro area. In some areas condos that were selling for 135-145K 2 years ago are now all bank owned and being sold for 45-55K. My mother bought her home just shy of 3 years ago for 190K and it is now valued at about 170K. As long as she has no intentions of selling in the next few years I think she will be just fine, not to mention she's in a much better position then those who bought similar houses in the same neighborhood a little over a year ago for 215K.
For those of you feeling so gloom and doom there is certainly light at the end of the tunnel. If you take some time to educate yourself you will see that times like now can be an investors dream. In the last 2 months a friend and myself have made well over 6 figures by making a few smart plays, we never spent a penny of our own money. Now that we have the money to spend we are expecting 7 figures within a year maybe 2 at most.
3 months ago I could barely afford to make my car note. Today the car is paid for, I'm closing on my personal home in 3 weeks, and owning my first ***boat is looking more and more like a realistic possibility by the day, not to mention I'm not living paycheck to paycheck anymore and that's the best possible feeling in the world. Who says there's no money in R/E?
I don't look at as "Doom and Gloom" a lot don't. I think it is unhealthy for the prices to be inflated like they are, but do agree it will be an opportunity to buy again which should be great news not doom and gloom.
the words i hear a lot now are " as long as you don't plan on selling in the next few years you should be fine". :cool:

[Troy McClure]

Sorry to post something on topic here but...
I just read this in the Register. Think people are getting desperate?? :220v: :220v: :220v:
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/money/homepage/article_1292915.php

[ratso]

Sorry to post something on topic here but...
I just read this in the Register. Think people are getting desperate?? :220v: :220v: :220v:
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/money/homepage/article_1292915.php
She'd probably have better luck shoving it up her ass... :rolleyes:

[AirtimeLavey]

She'd probably have better luck shoving it up her ass... :rolleyes:
LMAO.....

[CBadDad]

Sorry to post something on topic here but...
I just read this in the Register. Think people are getting desperate?? :220v: :220v: :220v:
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/money/homepage/article_1292915.php
I saw some Homo do that on the TV show Million Dollar Listings.
Whatever...

[wsuwrhr]

She'd probably have better luck shoving it up her ass... :rolleyes:
....by the looks of the picture, she could fit three, maybe four in there.
Brian

[wsuwrhr]

I saw some Homo do that on the TV show Million Dollar Listings.
Whatever...
That guy was a homo no doubt

[locogringo]

firt things first...
And you folks actually want to CUT funding for education? With this level of public school performance on display, I think we out to consider spending even MORE!!!
It is ought not out dumbass.
And second...
Don't you guys see into this. He is posing as this type of person. I would bet 100 bucks he is a member with another name trying to stir up shiat and having some fun with it. No one is this idiotic.

[Kachina26]

That's you're retort? You misspelled about ten words in you're post.
If you need the kool aid recipe, I'm sure a google search would bring it up.
Dumbazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzyour

[Troy McClure]

I was trying to be a little facetious.....at least that's my story.