Why wont it start..

[Slacker]

I have a 94 Sunkist performer chevy BBC jet with two fours that i bought used last year.I purchased a new starter as my old one went bad. I got a brand new hi torque mini starter instead of the standard delco, Also put in a brand new optima blue top battery. The problem is that when i first put the starter on it dragged, tried it again , it ran but cut off. So i hit the switch again and nothing at all, no clicking or anything. Volt guage reading 12 volts, WTF, i put the charger on the battery and it fired up no problem.Did it again..started again. I turned the charger off and nothing at all. Tried a running a new wire from ignition to starter, nothing , tried a new igniton switch , nothing. I took the new battery out and hooked it up to my truck, it started it. I am getting 12 volts to starter, ignition and alt., all wire is at least 10 to 14 guage and installed new cables for the battery terminals (screw on kind not the car ones). Checked all wires none loose and the fuses are good.So now i put my old broke starter back on an it spins but wont engage the motor. This is the second starter(hi Torque) i have gotton, the first one broke the casing and had to be replaced.Its like the starter needs more than my 12 volts to make it spin, putting a starter on should not be this diffifcult. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks ......

[shockwaveharry]

Is the ground cable bolted directly to the block? Definately sounds like an amperage/voltage drop problem...

[Slacker]

The ground cable is bolted through my rail kit to my block, this is the original setup as i have not changed it, the only thing i have changed is what i have mentioned before. No problems before...

[wickedfab]

does the motor turn over easily with a breaker bar?

[centerhill condor]

try it with the plugs out. You may have fuel in the cylinders..doesn't take much fuel either. I would go direct to the block with the ground wire do it like harry wrote.. Also, can you verify the clearance between the starter gear and the flexplate with the paper clip. I know I know its not easy to see in there and darned near impossible with the two gears engaged. You may have not enough clearance between the two gears and this could cause a broken cone! If she'll turn over right without the plugs you'll be able to hear if you have proper engagement...most guys never need a shim but you could be lucky today! Also, are you using the right starter bolts..you know the knurled shaft. They can make an incredible difference.
keep us updated and good luck!

[Rexone]

try it with the plugs out. You may have fuel in the cylinders..doesn't take much fuel either. I would go direct to the block with the ground wire do it like harry wrote.. Also, can you verify the clearance between the starter gear and the flexplate with the paper clip. I know I know its not easy to see in there and darned near impossible with the two gears engaged. You may have not enough clearance between the two gears and this could cause a broken cone! If she'll turn over right without the plugs you'll be able to hear if you have proper engagement...most guys never need a shim but you could be lucky today! Also, are you using the right starter bolts..you know the knurled shaft. They can make an incredible difference.
keep us updated and good luck!
Yep, exactly what he said.

[Moneypitt]

With everything hooked up the way it doesn't work, try adding a jumper cable from the batt - to the starter mounting flange and see if anything changes. I would suggest grounding on clean, unpainted engine block, as close to the starter as possible. Remember, the way it was used up the last starter for some reason, and low voltage and/or bad ground will waste a new starter quickly. It will also allow an engine to "kick back" against the starter, cracking the nose...........MP

[Slacker]

try it with the plugs out. You may have fuel in the cylinders..doesn't take much fuel either. I would go direct to the block with the ground wire do it like harry wrote.. Also, can you verify the clearance between the starter gear and the flexplate with the paper clip. I know I know its not easy to see in there and darned near impossible with the two gears engaged. You may have not enough clearance between the two gears and this could cause a broken cone! If she'll turn over right without the plugs you'll be able to hear if you have proper engagement...most guys never need a shim but you could be lucky today! Also, are you using the right starter bolts..you know the knurled shaft. They can make an incredible difference.
keep us updated and good luck!
Thanks CHC, Basically whats goin on is this .. Put charger on battery (New battery and new hi torque starter) motor will fire and run. Take charger off , will not start or do anything. Put on old junk starter(bad bendix) no charger and the starter will engage, make noise etc.(wont turn over because of bad bendix).SO why will the new hi torque starter not work but the old one will, remeber that the hi torque jobby did the first time out and but not anymore unless its on a charger.
Motor will run so its not locked up or anything. Cant run long as no water to the pump. The new hi torque starter engages fine (clearance checked with paper clip etc..) while on the charger, and it also comes with different bolts. You can not use knurled bolts on this starter without tapping out the holes. But alignment is not my problem now. I will have to check and see about a new ground, but my digital tester kept reading as a good ground for my 12 volts...especially to my starter .. These starters are used by a very respected jet builder on all his engines... Thanks again for the responses..

[IMPATIENT 1]

Thanks CHC, Basically whats goin on is this .. Put charger on battery (New battery and new hi torque starter) motor will fire and run. Take charger off , will not start or do anything. Put on old junk starter(bad bendix) no charger and the starter will engage, make noise etc.(wont turn over because of bad bendix).SO why will the new hi torque starter not work but the old one will, remeber that the hi torque jobby did the first time out and but not anymore unless its on a charger.
Motor will run so its not locked up or anything. Cant run long as no water to the pump. The new hi torque starter engages fine (clearance checked with paper clip etc..) while on the charger, and it also comes with different bolts. You can not use knurled bolts on this starter without tapping out the holes. But alignment is not my problem now. I will have to check and see about a new ground, but my digital tester kept reading as a good ground for my 12 volts...especially to my starter .. These starters are used by a very respected jet builder on all his engines... Thanks again for the responses..
check the voltage from the positive post on the starter and one of the starter bolts, then have someone try and crank it,there should be more than 10volts will crankin(or attempting to anyway).if there's a voltage drop to the starter it'll show up this way.

[Slacker]

With everything hooked up the way it doesn't work, try adding a jumper cable from the batt - to the starter mounting flange and see if anything changes. I would suggest grounding on clean, unpainted engine block, as close to the starter as possible. Remember, the way it was used up the last starter for some reason, and low voltage and/or bad ground will waste a new starter quickly. It will also allow an engine to "kick back" against the starter, cracking the nose...........MP
Moneypitt-Just read your post...
I will try and see about the jumper tomorrow. Everything was hooked backed up to the way it was when i bought the boat last year. So could have a low battery fried my old starter? But how would that explain why my new battery will not work with my new starter. It has 12 volts and reading 12 volts to the starter. I was thinking a ground my self, but its grounded exact same spot as before and it ran fine for at least 2 seasons that i had it.

[Slacker]

check the voltage from the positive post on the starter and one of the starter bolts, then have someone try and crank it,there should be more than 10volts will crankin(or attempting to anyway).if there's a voltage drop to the starter it'll show up this way.
Thanks Impatient 1, after this i will have to change my name to IMPATIENT 1 2. LOL I will also check this tomorrow, if there is a voltage drop any ideas or suggestions?

[IMPATIENT 1]

Moneypitt-Just read your post...
I will try and see about the jumper tomorrow. Everything was hooked backed up to the way it was when i bought the boat last year. So could have a low battery fried my old starter? But how would that explain why my new battery will not work with my new starter. It has 12 volts and reading 12 volts to the starter. I was thinking a ground my self, but its grounded exact same spot as before and it ran fine for at least 2 seasons that i had it.
i work on all alum caddy mills all the time that have ground trouble because they grounded to the side of the alum. block instead on a tranny bolt stud.if the ground cable is grounded to the rail kit and not to the block itself, i'd run one straight to the block.

[IMPATIENT 1]

Thanks Impatient 1, after this i will have to change my name to IMPATIENT 1 2. LOL I will also check this tomorrow, if there is a voltage drop any ideas or suggestions?
i bet it drops way below 10volts when you try and crank it. if the battery charger hooked up to the battery will start it, and the battery cable is good all the way to the starter, its gotta be a ground issue.

[Slacker]

i work on all alum caddy mills all the time that have ground trouble because they grounded to the side of the alum. block instead on a tranny bolt stud.if the ground cable is grounded to the rail kit and not to the block itself, i'd run one straight to the block.
Dont know what it is called -so Bare with me on this, the allen head bolt goes through the plate into the block. The plate is what the engine is mounted to which in return mounts to the rail kit. It is on the same side the starter is on about 6 inches from the starter itself. Hope i didnt lose you on that one, its getting late for me sorry....

[IMPATIENT 1]

are you able to do the drop test rite now?? got any help around ya? do that and report back to us the voltage while attempting to crank it, it'll tell more about what's goin on.
i'd pull the ground loose and clean the threads of the bolt used and connection points for starters, but do the drop test first.

[Slacker]

Cant do anything tonight, but my cousin is suppose to help me tomorrow, i will try the test tomorrow and let ya know what we found. I did take and clean the ground when i changed to new wires. Maybe i need a different ground spot for this hi torque pain in my azzz. Thanks for your time...IP1
By the way saw the pics you posted about flash and nashville that was just unbelieveable...still cant get over seeing that...

[IMPATIENT 1]

yeah, that lake is an hr away and i never go there anymore with my 18ft..very dangerous lake to be doin high speeds across,whether the boat was made for it or not. i went there once and had to stay in bed a couple of days afterward due to beatin up my kidneys(not by alcohol :p ).
i think you'll find your trouble with the voltage drop testing. if the battery is real hot and it still takes a charger to get it to crank,there's only a short list of things that could be wrong.here's where i'd start if it were mine:
(these test are assuming the starter is good and battery is fully charged)
check voltage at battery while attempting to crank it(if it goes below 10volts, charge or replace it)
check cranking voltage at starter(below 10volts, i'd look at cables and connections)
if that didn't locate it, check solenoid voltage while cranking(if it drops below 10volts, start checking connections and ignition starter switch)
if this don't find it, your probally lookin at a shiat starter :crossx:

[Slacker]

They will be on my checklist for tomorrow, tried new ignition switch didnt help. Thanks again... CT

[Slacker]

I tried the drop test ... only dropped about 1 volt from 12.30 to around 11.30. All conections were good, tried new ground nothing, Everything leads up to 12 volts. So maybe i did get another bum starter what are the odds of that? I will check with a local starter rebuilder and get it tested.

[SuperWrench0166]

Take your Battery With you and Have it Load tested at same time.

[sanger rat]

Take your Battery With you and Have it Load tested at same time.
Good answer. Battery could have a bad cell and it will still show 12 volts.

[Moneypitt]

Good answer. Battery could have a bad cell and it will still show 12 volts.
That battery started his truck, no problem.......I lean towards a bad "new" starter. I have seen more of those mini high torque starters create problems than I have seen work with no issues. On another note, have you tried jumping the solinoid at the starter?...............MP

[Slacker]

That battery started his truck, no problem.......I lean towards a bad "new" starter. I have seen more of those mini high torque starters create problems than I have seen work with no issues. On another note, have you tried jumping the solinoid at the starter?...............MP
Took it to the rebuilders today, said that the starter was good. I tried the old stick a screwdriver on the postive and ignition trick.... and that worked.I am getting another new gm style starter tomorrow and i will put that on and see what happens. SO whats next any other suggestions for the new hi torquer....

[Moneypitt]

Took it to the rebuilders today, said that the starter was good. I tried the old stick a screwdriver on the postive and ignition trick.... and that worked.I am getting another new gm style starter tomorrow and i will put that on and see what happens. SO whats next any other suggestions for the new hi torquer....
Put out a request for all the others that have had problems with them to send you their junk mini starters, link them all together and make an anchor, assuming you have a large boat, and a thick anchor rope/chain.............MP

[Slacker]

Went and picked up the gm starter.. put it on and with the first turn... That sweet bbc sound just a rumblin away... Oh well, wait and see if this works and for how long. Thanks for all the input and suggestions, nice to know that there are some cool fellow boaters out there that are willing to help..

[Schiada76]

I had a similar problem with a high torque POS. I shimmed it perfect and checked it on the stand. Didn't work, took it back to PAW and the guy at the counter mumbles that ALL of those starters get returned. Dkhead could of told me beforehand. Bought a much more expensive HT and it's worked fine.

[River Rat 005]

Since the GM starter worked, I'd be taking the high torque one back where I got it and havin a little chat with them.. :argue:

[bonesfab]

one phrase "made in china" mini starters are good as long as they are good to start with. go buy a Hitachi pe106 and have no more problems. had a customer show up with a "bitchen bad a$$ no name starter and it wouldn't turn it over. 2nd one didnt do much better. and this was on a race car with a 16 volt system.. put the new hitachi on it and no more problems....

[River Rat 005]

My Summit hi torque starter has been working fine for years. 12.5 comp. with crank trigger.