Too much shoe?

[FILUCKY]

17' Earl Smith, the shoe is 3/16" below the keel line and has a open pro loader. this boat will not air out, breaks water about front of motor at best and adjusting the ride plate and nozzle angle don't realy help. I'm wondering can the shoe and loader grab too much water and force the boat down? Any ideas how to air it out?
Thanks, Dallas :)

[poncho-pwr]

I am not an expert but I would certainly think it would be possible for the deep shoe and aggressive loader to cause that problem. Maybe somebody ran it that way with a lot of power or something and needed more water, hence the deep shoe. I sure would think that boat would be scary if it shut off at high speed with that much shoe.

[Vern S]

17' Earl Smith, the shoe is 3/16" below the keel line and has a open pro loader. this boat will not air out, breaks water about front of motor at best and adjusting the ride plate and nozzle angle don't realy help. I'm wondering can the shoe and loader grab too much water and force the boat down? Any ideas how to air it out?
Thanks, Dallas :)
What shoe, tapered, backcut, flat? Do you know the intake pressure?
What's the top speed, and how does it act on rapid shutdown?

[Unchained]

How much pressure do you get on an intake pressure gauge?
Adjust the shoe until you get 30 - 40 #
When my Cheyenne had the shoe too deep the back of the boat would hop even under accelleration.

[UBFJ #454]

How much Hp are you running?

[Old Guy]

While you're under there, you might want to check the bottom for hook.

[FILUCKY]

I would say the shoe has a 1*BC too it. Yes it will throw ya out if any sudden loss of power. Not sure of top speed as i don't feel good about the setup, but the boat is a 275# layup with over 900Hp so i feel safe to say well over a 100. No hook either. I bought this boat less motor already setup and this is a strange deal to me when adjusting the ride plate and nozzle angle won't lift the front or help to air out the boat.

[Gearhead]

If the keel in the boat is not braced well, you may need to do so. On a 275 lb layup and 900 hp, you may be experiencing keel flex. If the keel is flexing, all the time you take to set the hardware (plate angle, shoe angle, etc.) just went out the window. That is one of the reasons we sometimes see heavier layups outperform lighter hulls. At lower HP the hull flex may not show up as bad. If this happens to be the case the keel can be reinforced and braced to prevent flex.
You may try a little less shoe and check to see how far the loader blades protrude below the keel. If they both are deep, it would be interesting to shallow them up a little to see if that helps. The deeper hardware also puts more pressure on the keel. (which could cause flex)

[Vern S]

3/16 seems a bit low to me, but every boat is different. If it wants to throw you over the wheel on shutdown I would guess it may be too low. An intake pressure gauge is a great tuning tool. Take unchained's advice and install a gauge and shoot for 30-40 psi as he recommends. Also look at the loader ramps in relation to the bottom, like gearhead stated.

[FILUCKY]

Thanks guys, i'm going to tap the pump and add a pressure gauge and see what i get, does blocking off the center grate help with lift?

[UBFJ #454]

Some pictures of the boat might help ... in particular, slight oblique from the back, last 3 or so feet of the keel from side looking up and a front shot.
Also what intake is in the boat and what nozzle insert size are you using?

[FILUCKY]

Its got a standard Berkeley intake that has been cut for a shoe/ride plate and i'll have to check on my nozzle insert, i have four sizes and don't remember what was in it. Also i will get a few pics tonight.

[djdtpr]

does blocking off the center grate help with lift?
Yes

[FILUCKY]

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l130/Filucky/th_100_1051.jpg (http://s95.photobucket.com/albums/l130/Filucky/?action=view&current=100_1051.flv)
Heres a short vid of the boat, i know its not very good but its something.

[djdtpr]

cool little video.

[wsuwrhr]

If that thing was any lower in the water we'd call it a submarine! Waddya got up under the bow, a FAT chick? :D
Rio
Rio, you could get alot more with a teaspoon of sugar than you could with a pound of salt.
thought you should know.

[Sanger Jet]

She rides a little wet BUT How loose will she get if you air her out?
Might get scarry!!!

[FILUCKY]

I'll trade a little scary for some topend... :)

[Unchained]

Take some pictures of the bottom like Jak said.
Specifically what does the keel look like right ahead of the pump intake ?
A drop keel really helps to get the hull out of the water and loads the pump better too.

[FILUCKY]

My old scorpion (in my avitar) had a bubble in front of the intake, about 1/2 or so deep and 12" long and that boat aired out great and from top speed it would coast down perfectly. This Earl is flat in front of the intake.http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l130/Filucky/th_100_1050.jpg (http://s95.photobucket.com/albums/l130/Filucky/?action=view&current=100_1050.flv)
Heres another vid, pay no attention to me hammering it out of the hole, i was getting mad about this time. :rolleyes:

[UBFJ #454]

Whereas before I posted:
"Some pictures of the boat might help ... in particular, slight oblique from the back, last 3 or so feet of the keel from side looking up and a front shot.
Also what intake is in the boat and what nozzle insert size are you using?"
I'd now say after seeing the video ... Some pictures Will Help.
I like what I see when it accelerates ... the air box in the front is lifting the boat out and trying to get it up on plane ... but, something happens to cause it to settle wet in the back when it starts to run ... Remember guys, this is a 17 ft. Earl Smith not an 18' 3'' ,or, 19 footer like most of you are used to dealing with.
In addition the the questions I had above about the intake & nozzle size, If you care to share ... what's the distance from the back of the block to the outside of the transom, how far is the pump set back, how long is the ride plate, what does the motor weigh and do you have any idea of exactly where the longitudinal CG is in reference to the back of the driver's seat ...
From what I saw in your video, what might be happening is the weight distribution may be off significantly (CG Too far Back) such that the motor & pump weight's downforce maybe overriding both the of uplift of the tunnels and the ride plate and/or nozzle manipulations you've tried ... again, remember this is a 17 ft.boat and the lever arm (centered about the CG) is quite a bit less than for an 18 or 19 ft. boat than a 17 footer.
If the above is the case, then there are several things you might op to do .....Remembering 17 footer's are only good for so fast, then they get Can Very Dangerous in other than 'Glass Water' ... Even then, they can get Spooky @ Times.
Just some thoughts ...

[atxwrangler]

DALLAS, DO YOU AT LEAST HAVE AN HTP RATCHET IN THAT BOAT??? MAN YOU MUST HAVE BRASS BALLLS!HAVE YOU ACTUALLY HAD IT TO W.O.T. YET?MAYBE IT WILL LIFT AT A CERTAIN GIVEN SPEED AND SCARE THE SHIZNIT OUT OF YOU????THE WEIGHTS IN THE MOTOR FROM CHEBBY TO FORD DIDN'T CHANGE,RIGHT?IS THE MOTOR FURTHER FORWARD OR BACKWARD THAN WHAT IT WAS BEFORE???GOOD LUCK WITH THE SETUP,I AM COMIN TO PLAY SOON! http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2686HPIM0767.JPG

[Gearhead]

Is this the same 17' Earl's that recently went through Garry's shop and was in NE Texas a couple of years ago?

[FILUCKY]

Marty, its got a jet-a-way in it.
This is the same boat that was at Garry's shop.
UBFJ#454, sorry i don't have any pics of what ya need to see yet, i'll get some tomorrow and post them. The motor is a BBF with aulm. heads rods and pistons and a single carb setup so the weight of the motor is probably on the light side. The pump is set back to where the clean out is almost all the way out of the transom. And i still need to check on the nozzle size also. I've been working and haven't had a chance to get to my shop. Also the intake is a Berkeley that has been cut for a shoe/ride plate. Also i will get a measurement from the back of motor to the transom. I have no problem sharring any info on my stuff, no secrets here. :)

[FILUCKY]

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l130/Filucky/17Earl028.jpg
Heres a side shot for a referance to where the motor is sitting.