how much doe for the go

[bergen]

ok guys i know this has been covered b-4 buttt, sold my boat & i'm buying a mini day crusier with jet with 454 chevy, i know the day crews/er is a lead sled but what can i do with motor and pump to make this sled turn some #'s like 70 mph and be good day in and day out, heres the kicker can i do it on $3,500 budget, 454 in her now is not tired but not fresh either, should i buy all parts form like lets say summit, and have a shop build my motor or is their
a package deal out their i dont know about, any input would be welcome,
maybe some money figures with what i could do or should do to make my sled a little more slicker, thanks guys, bergen

[bergen]

oh sorry guys the mini day cruiser 21', i know thats a lot of glass to push around, bergen

[atxwrangler]

sounds like you need a blower! :crossx:

[SmokinLowriderSS]

3500 isn't enough I don't think. About double that maybe, and be a solid, reliable setup.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

With the given motor, and very careful purchasing, and YOU ASSEMBLE, And nitrous (the poor-man's blower), 600+ HP, and good reliability, unblown.
$$250 Good intake like performer RPM Air Gap
$$600 Roller cam kit arround .600 lift, 280* duration
$$100 Good 3/8" pushrods and guideplates (if you don't have 3/8 already)$$100 good timing chain kit
$1500 porting and manley Pro Flow valves into stock heads
$$400 Speed Pro forged pistons, check all measurements BEFORE to get 10:1
$$220 in rings & bearings, Molly (or double) and Clevite 77's
$$170 put ARP rod bolts in & have rods resised.
$$$75 average for ARP main studs ($50 for 2-bolt, $107 for 4-bolt w/ stock windage tray
$$100 new oil pump & quality drive shaft (I'm not a Hi-vol-everywhere guy)
$$250 BIG oil pan, measure carefully for fit, measure again.
$$100 gasket set
$400 plate N2O kit, 100 HP
$4,095
I think if chosen carefully, fitted right, over 600 NA HP, arround 5,500 RPM. Put a AA impeller behind it. (I'm slowly headed there with a Mk-IV 454 actually)
Now add $700 bronze impeller (I don't trust Alum at that HP, and don't care how many lucky folks get away with it. More power to them. :) )
$250 pump build kit
$5,045
Another $125 if you stud the heads.
Roller rockers, $250, and I would only go steel, unless you want to inspect them a lot, I don't.
Hope you already have a diverter & ride plate. If not:
$400 (used) to $1000 total, new.
That's how I'd try it if I were you.
A blower makes the motor power easier, add $3000 or so for the huffer, use all the same other parts, minus the N2O.

[lilrick]

better get a v drive if you wanna run 70's with a 21' cruiser!!!

[TJS]

Ya I do not think 3500.00 will cut it for a full rebuild. I have 9500.00 (I made an excel spread sheet for parts and price tracking on everything) into my engine with Brodix heads and a roller cam, factory forged crank and eagle rods. I had to buy a rebuildable core (LS-7 block) which took me 6 months to find something rebuildable in where the seller did not think he was selling gold bars.
You might want to just do the upper part(Heads) of the engine, and cam,(with nitrous) but you still run the risk of damaging your investment if something goes wrong in the bottom end.
T.J.

[bergen]

dam smokin, if i had to type that list it would take me 2 days, thanks for the info, not sure what route i am going to go with yet, maybe i'll go blower and only run little boost 2-4 lbs, i agree with you need pump work, hell who knows maybe i'll have to settel for 36 1/2 mph, until i can save a few more bucks, thanks again, bergen

[SmokinLowriderSS]

My somewhat similar build is being done piecemeal, part of it every winter, run it the next summer & enjoy.

[Ken F]

Bergen,
Having been down this road, let me offer you a little advise.
Don't get cought up trying to make a big heavy boat fast. You will just spend lots of money, and be dissappointed with the results in the end.
If you want to go fast, get a different hull which was designed for it!
Not trying to throw water on your deal, just from personal experience.
Ken F

[bergen]

Bergen,
Having been down this road, let me offer you a little advise.
Don't get cought up trying to make a big heavy boat fast. You will just spend lots of money, and be dissappointed with the results in the end.
If you want to go fast, get a different hull which was designed for it!
Not trying to throw water on your deal, just from personal experience.
Ken F
ken thanks for the advice, when you say dont get cought up trying to make a big heavy boat fast, what are we talking as far as fast go's, i would like to make the boat a little faster than stock, am i spining my wheels thinking i could make a 21' day crusier go 65 to 70 mph, hey smokin looks like your avi shows you have a day cruiser what speed are you running and what speed are you looking to go, thanks bergen.

[Devilman]

I dunno. I been running my old mild truck motor for two seasons & been dying to build something stouter that would get my sled outta the 50's and back into the high 60's where it was when I bought it. And then I think of how, ever since I swapped this motor in on a spur of the moment type deal, I think of people that have boo-koo $$$ tied up in their mills so they can haul ass, but spent quite a bit of time broke down for some reason or another. Workin on 'em, tweakin 'em, etc... Maybe its just coincidence, but it sure is nice bein able to run whenever I want to, wherever I want to. I may not get there first, but I always get there & I always got the cold beer. :crossx:
But I still been tossing the idea of building another motor around though. Just because... :rollside: That's just part of the sickness. :D

[Ken F]

Bergen,
Let me put it this way....I had an open bow 21' Omega and wanted the same as you. After lots of money, time & frustration I finally got it to 72.5
This is after changing the pump, intake, doing a setback w/rideplate, new engine, ect. With all the money & time I spent I could have been going a lot faster with a boat which was meant to go faster in the first place.
I'm not saying it can't be done but you have your work cut out for you!
You are the only one who can make the decision, and if you really like/love this boat and it's one you want to keep forever...go for it.
Devilmans last post is pretty much right on the money though. There's a lot to be said for a boat that is turnkey all summer for years in a row.
Ken

[bergen]

ok time out, i'm all for the turn key deal every day, ok maybe i over stated my objective, i am not looking for the fasted speed i can make this tug go,
i was just wondering, lets just say 60 mph, is this a reachable goal, with out as you say a ton of money & time. thanks bergen

[Devilman]

i would like to make the boat a little faster than stock
I'm pretty sure this is one of those "urban legends".... LMAO, nobody is happy with "a little faster than stock", there's just no such thing! :D :rollside:
Devilmans last post is pretty much right on the money though. There's a lot to be said for a boat that is turnkey all summer for years in a row.
Ken
Thanks Ken. My wife was in here reading over my shoulder. You agreeing with my post about building a new motor pretty much had the same affect as a Louisville Slugger on a baby seal's melon. Thanks, bro. LMAO! :D :D

[Ken F]

LOL....See what you get for letting her read over your shoulder???
In all reality, your ol worn out truck engine is bound to be on it's last legs anyway, so you are going to have to start sinking lots of money in keeping it running. Might as well build a new engine at this point.
There....that better?

[SmokinLowriderSS]

ken thanks for the advice, when you say dont get cought up trying to make a big heavy boat fast, what are we talking as far as fast go's, i would like to make the boat a little faster than stock, am i spining my wheels thinking i could make a 21' day crusier go 65 to 70 mph, hey smokin looks like your avi shows you have a day cruiser what speed are you running and what speed are you looking to go, thanks bergen.
Nope, no daycruiser. 1978 Taylor SS, 18'6", but pretty heavy for an 18/19 footer. No good GPS'ings currently, here's what I know.
72MPH, radared by dad, back when her hull was smooth, stock 454, 75HP Nitrous.
58MPH GPS Spring '05, freshly built 454, mildly modded (cam/intake), good loader, still breaking her in. 58MPH @4600 RPM, 10 hrs on the engine. Spun 4800 by end of summer. Nitrous unused
Re-did gel last winter but no GPS'ing available this past summer. Headers put her to 5,000 RPM, 400 honest HP, Berk "A" (Aggressor "B")

[jrork]

I may not get there first, but I always get there & I always got the cold beer. :crossx:
Devil, you and me gotta go boating. We've got the same prioritys.. :D

[SmokinLowriderSS]

I'm pretty sure this is one of those "urban legends".... LMAO, nobody is happy with "a little faster than stock", there's just no such thing! :D :rollside:
That's the first stage of "The Disease", and "The Disease" is definitely no urban legend. :cry: :cry:

[1fastlx]

my 78 taylor dc is 21 foot has a mild/weak 460 berk jg pump with AA impleller speedo shows 60 but closer to 55 by my friends comp ski boat. turning 4200rpms and seems like it will run forever (knock on wood) I agree with the rest of the folks here high speed is for other hulls but if you can live with 60 it may be reached with your budget. just double check your combo before shelling out cash for parts that will not push your boat

[Devilman]

LOL....See what you get for letting her read over your shoulder???
In all reality, your ol worn out truck engine is bound to be on it's last legs anyway, so you are going to have to start sinking lots of money in keeping it running. Might as well build a new engine at this point.
There....that better?
Hell yeah! I just got the green light on a blown injected, alky burning 743 c.i. powerplant! Thanks dude. Oh wait a minute..... LOL..
I was just funnin. Main thing that is holding up my next motor is my lack of motivation. Been wondering how yours turned out though... :cool:
Devil, you and me gotta go boating. We've got the same prioritys.. :D
Sounds good to me..... Lemme know if you ever venture this far south, I'll have several cold ones with your name on 'em. If I end up going your direction, I'll be sure to give ya a shout... :rollside: :cool:
That's the first stage of "The Disease", and "The Disease" is definitely no urban legend. :cry: :cry:
Yeah, unfortunately, I have found this to be true. What is it they say? Admitting you have a problem is the first step? LOL, I figure I'm lost somewhere between step 5 & step 8 on a 13 step program... :crossx: :rollside:

[Ken F]

[QUOTE=Devilman]Hell yeah! I just got the green light on a blown injected, alky burning 743 c.i. powerplant! Thanks dude. Oh wait a minute..... LOL..
I was just funnin. Main thing that is holding up my next motor is my lack of motivation. Been wondering how yours turned out though... :cool:
Devilman,
It wound up dynoing 655/625 @ 6200. Almost a flat torque curve.
Gained 5-600 rpm over last year. Havn't got to really stand on it yet as I had an oil pressure issue. New Pan on the way any day now!
Ken

[bergen]

my 78 taylor dc is 21 foot has a mild/weak 460 berk jg pump with AA impleller speedo shows 60 but closer to 55 by my friends comp ski boat. turning 4200rpms and seems like it will run forever (knock on wood) I agree with the rest of the folks here high speed is for other hulls but if you can live with 60 it may be reached with your budget. just double check your combo before shelling out cash for parts that will not push your boat
hey 1fastlx, thats what i'm talkin about, 60mph is more in line of what i'm looking for, i'm not looking to have set up on kill, just maybe some after market parts, when i hit the delta in sacramento i want to be able to cruise
to stockton in a reasonable time to hook up with my freinds from the bay area, so if i go from 36 1/2 mph to @least 55 mph i can get to the party a little faster, thanks bergen

[SB]

With the given motor, and very careful purchasing, and YOU ASSEMBLE, And nitrous (the poor-man's blower), 600+ HP, and good reliability, unblown.
$$250 Good intake like performer RPM Air Gap
$$600 Roller cam kit arround .600 lift, 280* duration
$$100 Good 3/8" pushrods and guideplates (if you don't have 3/8 already)$$100 good timing chain kit
$1500 porting and manley Pro Flow valves into stock heads
$$400 Speed Pro forged pistons, check all measurements BEFORE to get 10:1
$$220 in rings & bearings, Molly (or double) and Clevite 77's
$$170 put ARP rod bolts in & have rods resised.
$$$75 average for ARP main studs ($50 for 2-bolt, $107 for 4-bolt w/ stock windage tray
$$100 new oil pump & quality drive shaft (I'm not a Hi-vol-everywhere guy)
$$250 BIG oil pan, measure carefully for fit, measure again.
$$100 gasket set
$400 plate N2O kit, 100 HP
$4,095
I think if chosen carefully, fitted right, over 600 NA HP, arround 5,500 RPM. Put a AA impeller behind it. (I'm slowly headed there with a Mk-IV 454 actually)
Now add $700 bronze impeller (I don't trust Alum at that HP, and don't care how many lucky folks get away with it. More power to them. :) )
$250 pump build kit
$5,045
Another $125 if you stud the heads.
Roller rockers, $250, and I would only go steel, unless you want to inspect them a lot, I don't.
Hope you already have a diverter & ride plate. If not:
$400 (used) to $1000 total, new.
That's how I'd try it if I were you.
A blower makes the motor power easier, add $3000 or so for the huffer, use all the same other parts, minus the N2O.
Well you could aim a little lower:
400 hp at 4800 rpm maybe gets you almost 60 mph
$1,000 for A2 or Aggressor A impeller and pump rebuild.
$1,000 for diverter.
That leaves $1,500 to raise compression with either new heads or pistons.
You can learn to be content with saving money on gas.

[skeeter]

Isn't some of the aftermarket chevy heads available complete for less than 2 grand which would be better than the chevy iron heads?

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Yea, there are some, Merlin, Dart, Edelbrock, just on a quick scan of my Summit catologue. EAd's look least expensive, $1400+ pair.
Personally, I'd want bare castings myself, so I could install the valves I want, the springs matched to my cam setup, etc, and get what I want w/o buying extra unwanted parts.

[1fastlx]

check your wear ring clearance, I was at 35mph turning 5500 rpms then when I freshened up the drive revs droped to 42-4300 range and speed increased to around 55 or so now I can keep up with my buds and fuel consumption dropped probably 75%. this is my first jet and when I put it in the water the first time i was sick 30-35 from a big block boat???? then I found how important pump clearances are. now I'm more pleased and spent way less$$ than building a new engine to turn a worn out pump!

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Damn, you really had a worn out pump. Was there actually a wear ring and impeller in it, or had somebody put their spare Jet-Ski impeller in it. :p

[SmokinLowriderSS]

It's not real hard to get 400+ ponnies out of that 454 (I'm still doing it on 8.5:1 compresssion), and the open-chamber heads are good breathers. Give me a casting number from them and I can try to be closer.
I still think you're gonna need to be on the high side of 400 real HP (my 330 HP 454 stock was unlikely to actually make over 280/290, DuaneHTP had seen a lot of them dyno'd, and that was typical).To try to get to 400+ HP, I'd shoot it this way, to try to keep the budget intact too.
Full rebuild, the stock parts are fine (crank/rods/heads if you have the right ones)
$$100 gasket set
$$400 Speed Pro forged pistons, check all measurements BEFORE to get 10:1
$$220 in rings & bearings, Molly (or double) and Clevite 77's
$$100 Good 3/8" pushrods and guideplates (if you don't have 3/8 already
$$100 new oil pump & quality drive shaft
$$100 good timing chain kit
$$250 Good intake like performer RPM Air Gap
$$400 Hydraulic cam kit arround .565 lift, 280* duration
$$77 Stock long-slot rockers.
$$170 put ARP rod bolts in & have rods resised.
(especially since I saw in a chevy factory performance manual "Std performance and some early high-performance big blocks were equipped with connecting rods with 3/8" bolts. These rods are suitable for moderate use in pleasure boats, tow vehicles, and limited competition classes. 3/8" rod bolts and nuts should be inspected frequently and replaced at every engine overhaul.")
Personally, I think with good 3/8" bolts from arp, they may be stronger than the ones cored out for 7/16" bolts.
$$1900 new Lightning headers and 4" outlets. maybe $1500 used with new outlets.
$3800 for a solid, nothing fancy, 400+ HP 454 just itching for head work or replacement at a later time.
That's very close to mine, and it runs good, very good.

[bergen]

thanks for the info smokin, thats more in line with what i was thinking of, i do know what all the guys are talkin about when i said i wanted a little more speed and the thinking is that would i be happy with a little more and not be adicted and want a lot more latter, the answer is i just want a little more,
first off i no the daycruiser is no speed boat, second im done with the real need for speed, i have had my fill of speed, on the water and on the street with my motorcycles, thanks bergen