Tankless Water heaters

[spectratoad]

I know this has been discussed before but does anyone on th eboards have the hookup for one or a reference for agood place to purchase?
I am finally in the market for one. I am wanting one of the whole house types and I run propane to heat.
I know folks here have them in use so I am wondering what the best brands are? Thanks for info. :)

[lewiville]

i have the hook up, however are you going to do the intalling?
You need to go to www.awhi.net
These guys are my client and are the best in the western U.S. I dont think they will go out to L.V. to install, but maybe you can get it for the right price.
Call and ask for Narciso, tell him Dan Lewis told you to call.

[spectratoad]

Yes I can install it myself. I will give them a call. Thanks for contact.

[Makinitdrip]

I got mine at Home Depot. its great.

[a catered life]

kepp us updated on the price you get cause i might want to switch over also :p

[spectratoad]

I have been looking at Noritz or Takagai. Both seem to be around $900. Doesn't home depot carry Bosch? M-Drip- how long have you had it, any probs?

[YeLLowBoaT]

if your willing to drive about a hour I can get you one for just slighty over cost.

[lewiville]

I have been looking at Noritz or Takagai. Both seem to be around $900. Doesn't home depot carry Bosch? M-Drip- how long have you had it, any probs?
Noritz makes the Bosch
Takagi make someother ones as well that the box stores sell

[Sportin' Wood]

Been here before search it.
I like the Ranaii brand the best.
The reem looks promising as well.
I used to pimp the hell out of the noritz and we we're the biggest installer of Noritz before they spent a pile on marketing. Since production went up we stopped selling Noritz. I had a problem with a bunch of them.If you go Noritz stay away from the 6.3 and go 6.9.
Keep in mind your current gas pipe sizing may not be big enough to handle a tankless. a 50 gal. heater is around 50,000 BTU or 45 CFH
a tankless runs in the neighborhood of 200,000 btu or 180 CFH.
3/4 min. gas line for a tankless. To put it into perspective your FAU is around 100,000 BTU or 90 CFH.
Propane would change CFH. If you need the conversion divide BTU demand by 2500.
Sorry I don't sell retail. Might do an install in the I.E. as building has slowed way down and I have some hungry construction workers.

[Angie]

We just switched over to one of these recently and haven't rec'd the first water bill to see the diff and not sure that we will see one, but it seems to work out well.
I love the fact that it's a space saver.
Don't forget to check into the slight noise issue (not sure they all have that), but it was resolved when a "kit" was installed. Just caught us off guard when we heard a faint machine gun noise after turning off running water and thought... "WTH is that?!"

[BOBALOO]

I have the 8.4 Noritz and had to install a
LARGE gas line as this unit runs at a max of about 224K BTU. I believe there cant be any more than 10' of 3/4" pipe and I ran 1-1/2" from the new meter throughout the house and branched off 3/4 to all the gas appliances,firepit,bbq. The gas line requirements are the # 1 reason people decide against the tankless. The 2nd reason is cost and the 3rd is the expensive double walled stainless vent that must be used for some models if installed indoors. Outdoors gets a cheap direct vent cap about at about 50$
We have a slight buzzing sound that is audible after the water is shut off and the rubber mounts did not stop the noise so I figure the noise is being transmitted thru the pipes. Maybe some high quality flex water lines will help. The noise is only heard if it is quiet, which it is when my wife is trying to sleep at 5:00 am.
I dont know the cost b/c I haven't been billed yet but I think it is about 1600$-1800$ for the one we got. I bought this unit for the space savings more than anything else and believe we will see a gas savings of about 9$ a month. BFD!:D
The water gets hot as fast as the conventional tank unit did and I will be able to run 2 showers at once and not run out of hot water. Ours came with a controller to adjust what temp the water comes out at. The Idea is to set the temp you want so that you dont have to mix cold water with the hot to cool it down. Mixing cold in means you are heating more water than you need to and using more gas in doing so.
I just saw that HD is selling a brand called Paloma that looks VERY similar to the Noritz on the outside.
They are not for everybody, and I dont think the gas savings is enough to change over but I wanted one so we got one and are happy with it.
Good Luck.

[Mandelon]

I have one at home and did the install myself. However the manufacturer won't warranty it if its not installed by an approved installer... Its a Rinnai 2532. Works bitchen. Our gas bill is way down from a year ago. And my kids take more showers. IT can keep up with 3 showers running at once. I think the unit was 800 and another 200 for the damn fancy vent tubing. I got a new closet out of the deal too, as my unit is located in a closet off the hallway.
It is recommended to drain it and flush it with vinegar once a year to keep the solids from clogging it up inside.
We've installed a Bosch for a customer and it was not so great. As noted the gas volume to the unit is important. I have 1" running up to about 3 feet away, then 3/4" to the unit itself. They need a lot of gas.

[redneckcharlie]

over the last year, i've averaged about one install a week in tankless heaters. have used bosch in the past, not a bad unit, but the water flow sensing switch can be problematic. in the last ten months or so, have used nothing but rinai, out of fifty or so installed to this point, have not had one call back. when choosing one, make sure you know how much the actual output is(gallons per minute). for a family of four, you need somewhere above five. as far as the warranty, in many states its illegal for a manufacturer to restrict warranties based on someone taking their certification course. :rollside:

[redneckcharlie]

oh, if you want a rinnai, i can get them. sell it to you at my cost, you would just have to pay the shipping to you. i'm in nm.

[scooooter7]

These tankless heaters sound great. I was wondering about the "point of use" heaters too. The ones that go in the water line under the sink, I think they are electric. Anyone try them out?

[YeLLowBoaT]

I have put a ton of them in, they are great if you have a need for instant almost boiling water. Just be warned you need to run them on thier own circuit.

[probablecause]

Ok all of you bitchen installers and users (excluding the ones who have not received their bills yet). Is there a cost savings or is it a convenience thing only????

[YeLLowBoaT]

It depends on what you have now what you get and what your water needs are.
it takes the same amount of BTU to heat water. It does not matter how you heat it. What matters is how effecently you heat it.
For the most part don't expect to save any money. For most installs, in the long term your losing money.( more so if somthing breaks.)

[redneckcharlie]

actually there is a huge cost savings. i just did an install on monday in a centex home that had two sixty gallon heaters. estimated useage was $417 each, anually. the rinnai units estimated useage was less than $300. now factor in, a hot water tank rotting out every six or seven years, where we are. doesn't take long to pay for itself, not to mention convenience. the only downside to these units is the placement of the hot water supply to the house. they work much better if the units are placed close to the useage point. its not recommended to use them with a recirculation line. they do cost more to initially buy, but quickly recoup the cost. :rollside:

[YeLLowBoaT]

actually there is a huge cost savings. i just did an install on monday in a centex home that had two sixty gallon heaters. estimated useage was $417 each, anually. the rinnai units estimated useage was less than $300. now factor in, a hot water tank rotting out every six or seven years, where we are. doesn't take long to pay for itself, not to mention convenience. the only downside to these units is the placement of the hot water supply to the house. they work much better if the units are placed close to the useage point. its not recommended to use them with a recirculation line. they do cost more to initially buy, but quickly recoup the cost. :rollside:
Actaully they have the about the same life span as a normal water heater. I keep hearing storys( from a friend that owns a plumbing supply store) that some units are having probs with ether the controler or burners in the 3-5 year range. Granted they are still under warrenity. Well if you needed a permit to do the job and one was not pulled... guess what... no warrenity.( which is basicly standard for any water heater)
Granted if you have a older unit or one that sucks you will see a lot of savings, but not really much more then if you swaped it out for a newer unit.

[redneckcharlie]

not to start a pissing match with this subject, but. the major cost in useage for a conventional hot water heater is in maintaining the temperature when the tank is not being drawn on. a tankless unit only uses energy when hot water is on. as far as how long they last, i haven't installed a unit yet that was not made up of some type of copper manifold. i've yet to see copper rot out in a house. as far as electrical switches and the such, everything fails. i would much rather change a switch out, than come home to a failed heater that just put a couple hundred gallons of water on the floor.

[redneckcharlie]

one more thing, i have yet to have any manufacturer that i use, whether its hvac, tankless heaters, or conventional heaters, ask me for a permit when getting warranty work done.

[spectratoad]

Thanks for all the good info. Hey Redneck & Yellowboat, what brands are you able to get? I saw RedneckCharlie that you said you used Bosch in the past, what do you use now?
I need to look at my gas line but I think it is 3/4" to the furnace and water heater. Not sure what it is from the tank to the house.
I think I will see a cost savings just from not running the heater to heat water that is not being used. Then I also won't have to worry about turning the heater down when we leave town. Propane is at $2.59/gallon right now and I am sure it will go up when it starts getting into winter.
My e-mail is p2g@charter.net if you can get me a brand and cost. I'm not really brand specific but I do want reliability. Thanks for the help. :)

[Grinnin'B]

One more consideration from the gallery. My company is a home performance company in the bay area. We will not do anythning to a house that cannot be measured with diagnostics. One significant challenge with the US tankless heaters is that they are untested for duration (life) and performance. THe units sold here are dramatically different than European "on demand systems that are located in teh bath, kitchen etc. I think the gentlemen in here that commented on not working well with recircs is being modest. Recircs throw the units completely out of spec. one solution worth considering if your looking for duration and efficiency is Weissman systems or Polaris water heaters. We use these sytems integrated with radiant heat and hydronic air handlers for forced air systems. Then we have a system with multiple uses for the same btu used. Botom line when discussing efficiency look at the whole system. PLumbing in a house will SIGNIFACANTLY impact the distribution of hot h2o, if the plumber was hung from a weekend of pasties and shots....a tankless isnt gonna help much! For water specifically look up Gary Klien's water reports from the california energy commision. He covers heating, distribution, and wayste. He also gives classes nationally (if your in nor cal some are free in PG&E's Stockton Training Center. Gary is one of our partners and if your talking about water, heating it, drinking it, or flushing it....he is the man.
Just my .02
Grinnin

[roostwear]

I'm in the process of deciding what features I want in a house we will be building, and the tankless heater is one I have been considering. Until we move there full time (when I retire), the house will be only used on weekends or weeks in the Spring thru Fall. My concern is that with as much calcium as there is in the water, I don't want a conventional heater sitting and corroding or building up calcium. It would seem the tankless would be better in this regard. Used in conjuntion with reverse osmosis, I would think maintenance and frequency of repairs would be reduced. With new construction I can determine placement and be able to use the interior space more efficiently.

[redneckcharlie]

these days i pretty much use rinnai, and only rinnai. i'd be glad to get you a price, just need to know how many people in the house. you defenitely need a 3/4 gas line. 1/2 will not cut it. gas flow is measured in column inches, but usually a 3/4 line is ample in size for the flow required.

[Gearhead]

I have had one in my 1923 2-story house for three years and it has performed well. Electric
http://www.seisco.com/

[ddevore]

Are they availble in propane?

[lewiville]

Are they availble in propane?
maybe with some kind of adaptor :)