Japanese and Korea

[gochappy]

Like them or hate them or even somewhere in between, you must applaud the Japanese on their quick firm response to the behavior of the Koreans, Using their markets is a priviledge and will be revoked if your behavior is unacceptable. I sure wish we had the backbone to deal with other countries like this. Let the Russians and Chinese have the North Koreans.

[Bow Tie Omega]

Absolutely! Japan really stepped up this week in saying no more to North Korea. The frustration I have with the United Nations and China/Russia specifically has reached a new high. IMO, the United Nations has become the United Nations against America and should no longer be headquartered in New York City, much less anywhere in America. Granted, our latest debacle in Iraq does not help matters, yet Iraq is only a debacle because of foreign influences from the United Nations. It frustrates me to no end that we are the only country left in the world that still follows the Geneva Convention, and the same countries that only follow the GC at their convenience or not at all are the same countries that demand us to adhere to it strictly. War is exactly that, war. It is the only action remaining after diplomacy fails. Iraq thumbed their noses up for 15 + years at their sanctions. North Korea is doing the same. There should be no rules for war. Granted this is reaching 60 some odd years back, but do you all remember what ended the WW2, specifically with Japan? That is right. We can sit here and parse technicalities all day, but the atomic bomb is what ended WW2. Nuclear weapons are a horrible creation that should never have been developed in the first place. But that can not change the fact that they now here and like it or not, a part of our every day lives. With the rhetoric that is coming from North Korea and Iran in the past few months, including North Korea's threats to launch missles against the US, I really feel that if they are willing to use nuclear technology against the US then we should beat them to the punch. I know there will be responses saying there are only bluffing and that they are only trying to politically rangle us into direct US/Noth Korea talks. I say NO!!!! I am well versed on the effects of nuclear weapons and what happens once detonated, including the effects on human and animal life. What is our alternative, them sending 10 over here in 5 years first? I will guarentee all of you something, if Iran or North Korea sends nuclear weapons to our mainland, the effects will be felt much more strongly then if we send them there first. The sanctions in the past week have been watered down so much, they are virtually meaningless. No threat of military action, continued sales of conventional military weaponry.....What in the hell is that. As usual, Russia and China are getting in the way of real sanctions for monetary reasons. Do I still believe that sanctions would work, certianly. But sanctions with a bite. Our credibility is dwindling because no one is afraid of us any longer. If the Russia's and China's of the world keep going agianst us, our prominence in the world will continue to dwindle. 60 years ago, the world came to our side because they were all afraid of us, with the exception of the Soviet Union. As much as we try to politicize things with diplomacy, the basic functions of mankind comes down down to a simple formula that has been proven for centuries. The dog with the biggest stick wins. And what good is a stick if you do not use it from time to time. I say we go to the United Nations, the Security Counsel and tell them "Here are the sanctions, this is what you as a collective group will pass, North Korea has already declared war against the US, if you do not pass these sanctions, we will send two low yield thermonuclear warheads to North Korea and Iran and continue to do so every 24 hours until they give in to our demands. That is what we will do, we are the United States of America and we as a country have a right to protect ourselves". That is diplomacy. Do you think that North Korea and Iran would not give in to that? I guarantee all of you, if we do not respond, they will and my pundits who slam me for saying these things now will no longer be able to argue their side later because we, on the weat coast atleast, will be dead.

[Bow Tie Omega]

Man, I thought bag head and his buddy Howard Dean would have atleast chimed in by now, accusing me of being a right wing war monger

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Bag boy has definitely become conspicously ABSENT, as has his sack-sister, blown. I to wonder why they don't explain to a neanderthal such as you (and I) just WHY your opinion there is soooooooo wrong.

[Old Texan]

Blown would go along with nuking Iran if we dumped one short on Israel.
The only negotiation that could possibly work at this point is to buck up to China and tell them their largest market for their junk goods is shut down until they go in and straighten out their little cousins. Basically remove the pot bellied dictator and take over North Korea. Better to have China in charge than an insane dwarf with weaponery.

[IMPATIENT 1]

Absolutely! Japan really stepped up this week in saying no more to North Korea. The frustration I have with the United Nations and China/Russia specifically has reached a new high. IMO, the United Nations has become the United Nations against America and should no longer be headquartered in New York City, much less anywhere in America. Granted, our latest debacle in Iraq does not help matters, Iraq is only a debacle because of foreign influences from the United Nations. It frustrates me to no end that we are the only country left in the world that still follows the Geneva Convention, and the same countries that only follow the GC at their convenience are the same countries that demand us to adhere to it strictly. War is exactly that, war. It is the only action remaining after diplomacy fails. Iraq thumbed their noses up for 15 + years at the sanctions. North Korea is doing the same. There should be no rules for war. Granted this is reaching 60 some odd years, but do you all remember what ended the WW2, specifically with Japan? That is right. We can sit here and parse technicalities all day, but the atomic bomb is what ended WW2. Nuclear weapons are a horrible creation that should never have been developed in the first place. But that can not change the fact that they now here and like it or not, a part of our every day lives. With the rhetoric that is coming from North Korea and Iran in the past few months, including North Korea's threats to launch missles against the US I really feel that if they are willing to use nuclear technology against the US then we should beat them to the punch. I know there will be responses saying there are only bluffing and that they are only trying to politically rangle us into direct US/Noth Korea talks. I say NO!!!! I am well versed on the effects of nuclear weapons and what happens once detonated, including the effects on human and animal life. What is our alternative, them sending 10 over hear in 5 years first. I will guarentee all of you something, if Iran or North Korea sends nuclear weapons to our mainland, the effects will be felt much more strongly then if we send them there first. The sanctions in the past week have been watered down so much, they are virtually meaningless. No threat of military action, continued sales of conventional military weaponry.....What in the hell is that. As usual, Russia and China are getting in the way of real sanctions for monetary reasons. Do I still believe that sanctions would work, certianly. But sanctions with a bite. Our credibility is dwindling because no one is afraid of us any longer. If the Russias and China's of the world keep going agianst us, our prominence in the world will continue to dwindle. 60 years ago, the world came to our side because they were all afraid of us, with the exception of the Soviet Union. As much as we try to politicize things with diplomacy, the basic functions of mankind comes down down to a simple formula that has been proven for centuries. The dog with the biggest stick wins. And what good is a stick if you do not use it from time to time. I say we go to the United Nations, the Security Counsel and tell them "Here are the sanctions, this is what you as a collective group will pass, North Korea has already declared war against the US, if you do not pass these sanctions, we will send two low yield thermonuclear warheads to North Korea and Iran and continue to do so every 24 hours until they give in to our demands. That is what we will do, we are the United States of America and we as a country have a right to protect ourselves". That is diplomacy. Do you think that North Korea and Iran would not relent to that? I guarantee all of you, if we do not respond, they will and my pundits who slam me for saying these things will no longer be able to argue their side because we, on the weat coast atleast, will be dead.
we see eye to eye on this. japan had subs with atomic weapon parts in route when we nuked them, and they would've used them if they had em! iran and n korea are no different, once they have enough nukes built up to be able to sustain themselves for a nuclear war, there gonna do it. any country that declares war on this us, we should turn to glass!

[Bow Tie Omega]

Blown would go along with nuking Iran if we dumped one short on Israel.
The only negotiation that could possibly work at this point is to buck up to China and tell them their largest market for their junk goods is shut down until they go in and straighten out their little cousins. Basically remove the pot bellied dictator and take over North Korea. Better to have China in charge than an insane dwarf with weaponery.
While I understand your ideology with China, I think we would be screwing ourselves. By our own doing, we have become way to dependent on China's exports and labor. Even with all of that aside, China is not a country we want to get into a pardon the term "pissing contest" with. They are one of the few countries on this earth who, if they wanted to could obliterate the continental US with their nuclear weapons. But then again, China knows we also could obliterate all 7 continents if we wanted. Robin WIlliams has this new movie coming out. He plays a comedian who ends up running for president. I wonder if having a non-politician in the White House rather then a professional politician would really be better. I think an outsider would care alot less about the political machine then a donkey or elephant would. I think we really need someone who can go in and say " I do not care how they have been doing it for the past 40 years". "It has not worked and we are now going to try this".

[SmokinLowriderSS]

While I understand your ideology with China, I think we would be screwing ourselves. By our own doing, we have become way to dependent on China's exports and labor. Even with all of that aside, China is not a country we want to get into a pardon the term "pissing contest" with. They are one of the few countries on this earth who, if they wanted to could obliterate the continental US with their nuclear weapons. But then again, China knows we also could obliterate all 7 continents if we wanted. Robin WIlliams has this new movie coming out. He plays a comedian who ends up running for president. I wonder if having a non-politician in the White House rather then a professional politician would really be better. I think an outsider would care alot less about the political machine then a donkey or elephant would. I think we really need someone who can go in and say " I do not care how they have been doing it for the past 40 years". "It has not worked and we are now going to try this".
It is this mutual status AND mutual understanding that kept the Soviet Union and keeps the communist Chinese a reasonably safe and sane entity to deal with. All the blustering and rhetoric aside, we and the Soviets always knew that there would not be a first-strike because of the return-strike capacity, and the same holds true with the red Chinese. I don't think the little nut in N Korea cares, and likely thinks China will always cover his back so he can bully about as he pleases, with impunity, right up to throwing VERY high-explosives arround.
Yes, best case scenario, China gets rid of him. I don't think it's gonna happen, but that is the best way IMO.

[chub]

gochappy, Korea............North or South who you talkin bout? I Presume the north with the quack leader biatch Il. Japan is a country not Japanese. Korea thank god for the patriot South are split. Don't say Korea when talking about the North. My family fought hard against the commies and I'm not a PC guy but get your shit together and be respectful of those that fought the commie regime of Kim pucky Il. Buy the way good post re:Japn, those guys will not be f'd with by NK. If you think sadaam was a threat, we should kill kim jong il and his son as they are truly insane.
just MHO

[chub]

It is this mutual status AND mutual understanding that kept the Soviet Union and keeps the communist Chinese a reasonably safe and sane entity to deal with. All the blustering and rhetoric aside, we and the Soviets always knew that there would not be a first-strike because of the return-strike capacity, and the same holds true with the red Chinese. I don't think the little nut in N Korea cares, and likely thinks China will always cover his back so he can bully about as he pleases, with impunity, right up to throwing VERY high-explosives arround.
Yes, best case scenario, China gets rid of him. I don't think it's gonna happen, but that is the best way IMO.
Agreed, this little focker is a nut job and his country would greatly benefitfrom his families demise.

[Bow Tie Omega]

Agreed on the mutual status claim about China and the Soviet Union (now Russia). Yet China and Russia are a cog in this entire North Korea and Iran issue. They say they agree yet they do not want to lose the money generated from those two countries. That is why I feel we should take all of the other countries out of the equation, and indirectly force their hand rather then directly. No threats to China or Russia, remain friendly and simply give them an ultimatum that is not directed at them but at the perpetrator. We go to the UN and say, we have tried to work with your respected countries again and again and again. These sanctions do not come close to meeting our satisfaction. North Korea has declared war on our country, they are developing a nuclear strike capability specifically for the US. Our country has given them things to behave, including nuclear technology for reactors, we have given them billions in aid and yet they still persists. We have asked them to stop nicely, we have told them to stop sternly, they still persists. No more, if North Korea (and Iran) do not halt all nuclear developement immediatley and allow IAEA staff to go in and remove all nuclear related equipment immediatley, we will send two low yield (because we consider China and Russia our friends and would lke to keep nuclear contamination to a minimum)thermnonuclear warheads to North Korea (and Iran) every 12 to 24 hours until they give in or their country/s are obliterated.
I have a feeling that China and Russia would absolutely freak. And if we were serious about using them I think CHina and Russia would step up because of the mutual understanding and North Korea and Iran for that matter would no longer be a problem. If they did balk, it would just take one launch to see we were serious. That would buy us another 20 to 30 years of respect. Once again to all of my detractors, basic human nature dictates that the biggest man with the biggest stick (that will use the stick) wins. This has been proven for centuries. ANd we all know this from the time we are born, it is instinctive knowledge. Scary, I know. But we really have tried everything else and nothing has worked. At some point you have to say no more and issue the ultimatum. The United Nations is a joke because they do not back up their sanctions, unlike NATO. If the UN were to behave more like NATO, I seriously doubt we would be having this conversation in the first place. JMO

[SmokinLowriderSS]

An awful lot of solid reasoned logic in there Bow Tie Omega, we agree. Too dam bad I just don't see it anywhere on the horizon. :mad: :mad:

[Bow Tie Omega]

Can you believe this crap. The UN strikes again. These corrupt bastards. The General UN Assembly is having a vote on a temporary Security Counsel Member today which will last for a term of two years. Guess who the front running country is........ding ding ding.....thats right kids, Venezuela, the same Venezuela who is led by Iran's and North Korea's best friend, Hugo Chavez. The same Hugo Chavez who secretly promotes the illegal drug industry, calls America the great satan and has bought just about every vote in the UN with oil for this seat on the Security Counsel. His sole motivation in having this seat is to vote against America. You guys think that China and Russia are bad, as the old hillbillly phrase goes, "u aint seen nuttin yet".

[gochappy]

gochappy, Korea............North or South who you talkin bout? I Presume the north with the quack leader biatch Il. Japan is a country not Japanese. Korea thank god for the patriot South are split. Don't say Korea when talking about the North. My family fought hard against the commies and I'm not a PC guy but get your shit together and be respectful of those that fought the commie regime of Kim pucky Il. Buy the way good post re:Japn, those guys will not be f'd with by NK. If you think sadaam was a threat, we should kill kim jong il and his son as they are truly insane.
just MHO
well if you had the ability to read it clearly states north Korea......Japanese referred to a people thus the proper term whereas Korea referred to an entity not a people, thus correct again...Additionally anyone who had any inkling of current events would readily know that the conflict pertains to the north Koreans.........I wonder if when referring to yourself, you refer yourself as an american or a north american....so if you have a point regarding the swift and firm reaction by the Government of Japan, go ahead and make it....if you just want to whine about your relatives ...maybe start your own post or try...www.whine-and-complain.com....

[gochappy]

Australians closed their ports to the North Koreans today.....hopefully the entire free world will follow suit.......

[deltaAce]

gochappy, Korea............North or South who you talkin bout? I Presume the north with the quack leader biatch Il. Japan is a country not Japanese. Korea thank god for the patriot South are split. Don't say Korea when talking about the North. My family fought hard against the commies and I'm not a PC guy but get your shit together and be respectful of those that fought the commie regime of Kim pucky Il. Buy the way good post re:Japn, those guys will not be f'd with by NK. If you think sadaam was a threat, we should kill kim jong il and his son as they are truly insane.just MHO
Response...........
well if you had the ability to read it clearly states north Korea......Japanese referred to a people thus the proper term whereas Korea referred to an entity not a people, thus correct again...Additionally anyone who had any inkling of current events would readily know that the conflict pertains to the north Koreans.........I wonder if when referring to yourself, you refer yourself as an american or a north american....so if you have a point regarding the swift and firm reaction by the Government of Japan, go ahead and make it....if you just want to whine about your relatives ...maybe start your own post or try...www.whine-and-complain.com....
Internet Boxing, that was a Knock-Out!

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Can you believe this crap. The UN strikes again. These corrupt bastards. The General UN Assembly is having a vote on a temporary Security Counsel Member today which will last for a term of two years. Guess who the front running country is........ding ding ding.....thats right kids, Venezuela, the same Venezuela who is led by Iran's and North Korea's best friend, Hugo Chavez. The same Hugo Chavez who secretly promotes the illegal drug industry, calls America the great satan and has bought just about every vote in the UN with oil for this seat on the Security Counsel. His sole motivation in having this seat is to vote against America. You guys think that China and Russia are bad, as the old hillbillly phrase goes, "u aint seen nuttin yet".
Don't give Hugo too much credit. Venezuela was a DISTANT #2 in the voting, but not enough votes were for a single country to post a result, so another round of voting happens. Hugo was #2 like 79 to 120. Venesuela won't get it.

[Bow Tie Omega]

Don't give Hugo too much credit. Venezuela was a DISTANT #2 in the voting, but not enough votes were for a single country to post a result, so another round of voting happens. Hugo was #2 like 79 to 120. Venesuela won't get it.
Well thank goodness. This morning they were posting that Venezuela had the votes and the country we were backing, Guatemala was a distant second.

[YeLLowBoaT]

I just saw on CNN the foreign minstar of N Korea said that the UN sanactions are a "decltartion of war"... they will defend thier sovernity. I also saw where china is erecting a barb wire wall between them and N korea... they don't want any refugees coming across the border... so how do we elect ppl that like here???
edit heres a link
And no I don't beleave every thing I see on TV... (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061017/ap_on_re_as/koreas_nuclear;_ylt=ArYPygmHtapEEiYkIMlNKrms0NUE;_ ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--)

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Well thank goodness. This morning they were posting that Venezuela had the votes and the country we were backing, Guatemala was a distant second.
Thx for the reminder, it was Guatemala that was WAY in the lead, but short on total numbers. I just couldn't recall it last night. Was all over certain radio shows yesterday as I was running errands.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

I just saw on CNN the foreign minstar of N Korea said that the UN sanactions are a "decltartion of war"... they will defend thier sovernity. I also saw where china is erecting a barb wire wall between them and N korea... they don't want any refugees coming across the border... so how do we elect ppl that like here???
edit heres a link
And no I don't beleave every thing I see on TV... (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061017/ap_on_re_as/koreas_nuclear;_ylt=ArYPygmHtapEEiYkIMlNKrms0NUE;_ ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--)
At least China is stepping up (partly) and searching trucks traffic with NK for forbidden equipment. It's not enough, but it's a start, and I'll take a start over nothing.

[gochappy]

well as expected the Chinese are inspecting trucks but are not going to remove anything in violation of the sanctions......It sure would be nice to get these spineless politicians who are suppose to represent us out of control. The way I see it....we make the rules .....If you want to import into out markets...these are the rules.....if they are not followed, all access will be denied immediately......It will never happen...this planet will long be destroyed before anyone looks back and realizes that would have been a better plan than negotiating with terrorists.....Yes the north Koreans are terrorists threatening war if they don't get their way.....Its time to fill that area of the world with subs with nuclear weapons and parade them around....the first nuclear test was a dud and and the next probably will be too......that ought to irritate a few......Don