EFI in a V-drive?

[Itsahobby]

I am still considering re-powering my 21 Rayson Craft. I was wondering if anyone has used any of the after market EFI systems and what there impressions were?
Right now my thoughts are a 502/502 crate motor, or a 502+ long block from a good engine builder. I have all the bolt on goodies :)
Any thoughts?
Thanks
Jerry

[DUCKY]

I have seen several Schiada's with blown and turbo EFI motors. EFI is slick and I was planning on doing it on my next v-drive, but you either have to re-learn how to tune (if you tune your own stuff) or pay someone with the proper knowledge and tools to do it for you. If you have a comfortable understanding of how EFI works, you shouldn't have any trouble.
Just remember that EFI can leave you out on the water with a part failure, that you probably can't replace at Autozone in a pinch....

[Itsahobby]

Good points. I know a lot of the tunning is done through a O2 sensor. I have IMCO powerflows and don't believe there is a bung to mount and O2 sensor.
Thanks for the reply.
Jerry
I have seen several Schiada's with blown and turbo EFI motors. EFI is slick and I was planning on doing it on my next v-drive, but you either have to re-learn how to tune (if you tune your own stuff) or pay someone with the proper knowledge and tools to do it for you. If you have a comfortable understanding of how EFI works, you shouldn't have any trouble.
Just remember that EFI can leave you out on the water with a part failure, that you probably can't replace at Autozone in a pinch....

[Unchained]

EFI / engine management is the ultimate way to go.
Good fuel economy and driveability too. The throttle response on my port injected turbo motor is excellent.
As Ducky said there is going to be a learning curve to it. The system has many parameters that can be fine tuned. I learned it myself and tuned with an O2 sensor and an O2 datalogger but it took a while and was frustrating at times. I have a Haltech E6K but there are better (and more expensive) units available now like the Big Stuff, FAST, and Motec.
Best place to start out is by reading a book on it so you know what your getting into. Go on the Amazon website and search out a book on engine management systems, or Electronic fuel injection.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/220heatshields.jpg

[hairysituation]

Electricity and water don't mix. :220v:

[DUCKY]

Good points. I know a lot of the tunning is done through a O2 sensor. I have IMCO powerflows and don't believe there is a bung to mount and O2 sensor.
Thanks for the reply.
Jerry
o2 sensors and water don't mix either... If you are going to run a system that uses an o2 sensor, you can't put water into the pipe until the very end. And if you run a cam with a 108 or 110 l/c, forget about any water in the exhaust. The o2 sensor has to achieve and maintain a certain temp to function. If the sensor gets doused with water, the computer will go into closed loop (which means the motor runs off a set of parameters in the ECU, and makes no adjustments for input from various sensors)
I am not really a fan of the systems that require an o2 sensor, if you haven't noticed....

[Itsahobby]

I need to do more research. I thought you had to have a O2 sensor in order to tune the EFI.
o2 sensors and water don't mix either... If you are going to run a system that uses an o2 sensor, you can't put water into the pipe until the very end. And if you run a cam with a 108 or 110 l/c, forget about any water in the exhaust. The o2 sensor has to achieve and maintain a certain temp to function. If the sensor gets doused with water, the computer will go into closed loop (which means the motor runs off a set of parameters in the ECU, and makes no adjustments for input from various sensors)
I am not really a fan of the systems that require an o2 sensor, if you haven't noticed....

[Itsahobby]

Yes, yes it would :) I am trying to keep everything under the hatch, though.
How about doing a 572 cu in Kinsler EFI Fuel Injected setup ? That would be my next motor combo, a lil ol school with modern tech, the big intake stacks look way cool :cool: :cool:

[Unchained]

Electricity and water don't mix. :220v:
How do you fire your spark plugs then ?
Them lectronics just can't be trusted, It's like them there pesky cell phones that are so unreliable too. Now back when you stretched a wire between a couple tin cans..... that was reliability. :rolleyes:
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You do need an O2 sensor to tune the system with otherwise you'll waste a lot of time guessing.
Closed loop is certainly more desireable for economy but I've spent quite a while fine tuning the maps and their pretty close so I run open loop and an O2 sensor is not required.
You could tune the system with a dry pipe with an O2 sensor in it and then remove it and run open loop or you could tune the system on a dyno with an O2 sensor and run open loop.

[Itsahobby]

I was thinking Dyno would be the way for me to go. Or else get a set of dry headers and weld in a O2 sensor.
I did a search on your threads, good reading. I need to get some books orderd. :)
How do you fire your spark plugs then ?
Them lectronics just can't be trusted, It's like them there pesky cell phones that are so unreliable too. Now back when you stretched a wire between a couple tin cans..... that was reliability. :rolleyes:
************************************************** ******
You do need an O2 sensor to tune the system with otherwise you'll waste a lot of time guessing.
Closed loop is certainly more desireable for economy but I've spent quite a while fine tuning the maps and their pretty close so I run open loop and an O2 sensor is not required.
You could tune the system with a dry pipe with an O2 sensor in it and then remove it and run open loop or you could tune the system on a dyno with an O2 sensor and run open loop.

[squirt'nmyload]

I am trying to keep everything under the hatch, though.
. Or else get a set of dry headers and weld in a O2 sensor
i'd think twice about this!!!

[19.6 schiada]

itsahobby my bbc 540 was set up using an o2 sensor from what i was told the efi motors that use an o2 is for setting them up & then removed & run with out my schiada runs imco powerflow plus manifolds the o2 bung is in the tail pipes . tail pipes are double walled stainless imco units . i can try to post pictures if you want

[Itsahobby]

A pic would be great.
I have the double wall pipes, also.
Thanks,
Jerry
itsahobby my bbc 540 was set up using an o2 sensor from what i was told the efi motors that use an o2 is for setting them up & then removed & run with out my schiada runs imco powerflow plus manifolds the o2 bung is in the tail pipes . tail pipes are double walled stainless imco units . i can try to post pictures if you want

[Itsahobby]

I was not thinking of running dry headers under the hatch. I would put the headers on, no hatch, set up the efi and the put the imcos back on.
Jerry
i'd think twice about this!!!

[Beer-30]

Electricity and water don't mix. :220v:
Yeah, Hmm. Merc Racing, and now Raylar Racing have ZERO carbureted engines - if that is the electrics you are referring to. Seems to work just fine.

[hairysituation]

Sooooo sensitive today mmmm electricity and water still don't mix. Thats all I said. EFI is great!

[Havasu47]

We do EFI all the time and always with O2 sensors. We install bungs in Imco and CMI mostly. With that said, we make sure the tail pipe is long enough and the water mixes far enough down the pipe. Stoich is 14.5:1. Closed loop is + / - .5 when using a HEGO O2 sensor. Anything else is technically open loop. If using a linear wideband sensor you can specify your closed loop A/F parameters.
Unless you have a lot of experience with lap top tuning I recommend paying an experienced tuner to do this for you. A couple of hours on the lake and you are done and on your way. Tuning on a Dyno will never give you the results of lake tuning. With a sophistcated system you will pull your hair out. :D

[Unchained]

We do EFI all the time and always with O2 sensors. We install bungs in Imco and CMI mostly. With that said, we make sure the tail pipe is long enough and the water mixes far enough down the pipe. Stoich is 14.5:1. Closed loop is + / - .5 when using a HEGO O2 sensor. Anything else is technically open loop. If using a linear wideband sensor you can specify your closed loop A/F parameters.
Unless you have a lot of experience with lap top tuning I recommend paying an experienced tuner to do this for you. A couple of hours on the lake and you are done and on your way. Tuning on a Dyno will never give you the results of lake tuning. With a sophistcated system you will pull your hair out. :D
So what brand of ECU do you guys work with or what brands do you prefer ?

[19.6 schiada]

itsahobby sorry i didnt get back sooner will try to post picture of pipes this weekend

[Itsahobby]

Thanks, and no problem. I am just in the process of seeing what can be done and what I am $$$ able to do. :)
Thanks again,
Jerry
itsahobby sorry i didnt get back sooner will try to post picture of pipes this weekend

[19.6 schiada]

itsahobby got the picture of o2 bung in my schiadas exhaust . not the greatest picture hope it helps sorry it took so long

[19.6 schiada]

try this again http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/showphoto.php?photo=44639

[Itsahobby]

Where is your O2 sensor? is it the plug just after the elbow?
Jerry
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/215710-17-2006_075.jpg itsahobby got the picture of o2 bung in my schiadas exhaust . not the greatest picture hope it helps sorry it took so long

[19.6 schiada]

itsahobby yes the plug in the tail pipe behind the elbow in where the o2 goes

[Itsahobby]

Thanks,
I have some ideas on how to get the O2 sensor to the exhaust and not get to the water. I am not good at explaining things but here goes.
Machine a hole through both walls of the tail pipe to accept a O2 bung. Then machine a hole on the outside wall the out side dia of SS tubing with and ID large enough to accept a socket to fit the O2 sensor. Weld in the bung to the inside wall. Weld the tubing to the inside wall and the outside wall.
Plain as mud??
Unchained, what do you think? Only thing I worry about is the decreased water flow. Not worried too much, though.
Jerry
itsahobby yes the plug in the tail pipe behind the elbow in where the o2 goes

[19.6 schiada]

itsahobby looks like you dont live to far from me if you would like to look at the pipes on our schiada let me know

[Unchained]

Thanks,
I have some ideas on how to get the O2 sensor to the exhaust and not get to the water. I am not good at explaining things but here goes.
Machine a hole through both walls of the tail pipe to accept a O2 bung. Then machine a hole on the outside wall the out side dia of SS tubing with and ID large enough to accept a socket to fit the O2 sensor. Weld in the bung to the inside wall. Weld the tubing to the inside wall and the outside wall.
Plain as mud??
Unchained, what do you think? Only thing I worry about is the decreased water flow. Not worried too much, though.
Jerry
That sounds like that would work.
How about makeing a short section that would sandwich between the header and the tail pipe that would accept the O2 sensor ?
Some pipes have internal water passages through the joint and some have an external transfer hose.

[Itsahobby]

My tail pipes are double wall right from the get go. I know a really good fabricator, I just need to see if I can get the right size tubing. I figure it shouldn't matter where on the tail pipe, so I will put it in the most accurate reading location.
I have the IMCO exhaust and tail pipes. My tail pipes start right at the top of the manifold. Not like the ones pictured. If I sandwiched something between the header and the tail pipe it would mess up the angle/space between the tail pipe and the exhaust tips.
This is all if I can drum up the $$$ to do it.
Jerry
That sounds like that would work.
How about makeing a short section that would sandwich between the header and the tail pipe that would accept the O2 sensor ?
Some pipes have internal water passages through the joint and some have an external transfer hose.