454 what to look for

[KYBOATER]

i have bought a project boat 19 ft tahiti just hull and pump no motor or mounting hardware so i can go with any motor 455,460or 454 i am leaning towards 454 i need info on what to look for older motor or newer what will it take to convert truck engine to marine engine any info would be gratefull has there been any threads for building 454

[FASTRAT]

i have bought a project boat 19 ft tahiti just hull and pump no motor or mounting hardware so i can go with any motor 455,460or 454 i am leaning towards 454 i need info on what to look for older motor or newer what will it take to convert truck engine to marine engine any info would be gratefull has there been any threads for building 454
there are alot of threads on building all of the motors u list...every1 has there own opinion on what motor is best!...how much do u want to spend?...how fast do u want to go?...stay tuned, u will get alot of ??? & answers...also...Welcome to HB...alot of good info on here!
fastrat

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Oh this is going to be a great thread!!!!
If your new to the game build something mild. That way it is RELIABLE and TURNKEY!!!! Then start a project for the future that is geared for more hp;)
Thats the best way to do it or you can spend $20K for a turnkey dne motor that will kick some a$$;)
396

[beerjet]

Oh this is going to be a great thread!!!!
If your new to the game build something mild. That way it is RELIABLE and TURNKEY!!!! Then start a project for the future that is geared for more hp;)
Thats the best way to do it or you can spend $20K for a turnkey dne motor that will kick some a$$;)
396
I'm gonna have to agree on all your points.
-beerjet-

[YeLLowBoaT]

you may want to look for a boat that has a decen motor and pump, but the rest is a basket case. Pull the motor and pump out then sell the boat and trailer for what ever you can get for it.

[jbone]

Take a look at the various GM Performance crate motors.
They don't take a lot to make them workable for marine applications.
Like mentioned, lots of previous threads on how to do it.
J

[victorfb]

scrap the 455 olds off the list since you dont allready have it. as for the comment on GM crate motors, i would consider that big time unless you have a good sourse or find a good deal on used stuff. i have run both. i run a GM crate 502 in the rogers and have a couple trouble free seasons on it allready. if you use a crate motor, just use the recommended oil (most likely a 5W30) and the clearances should be just fine. i use a good synthectic oil (royal purple) and have had good luck with it. if you want to go the ford route you may want to contact paul (Lakesonly here on the boards) and he can steer you in the right direction. as far as a used truck engine goes, if your talking a 454, the mark4 would be my first choice but dont discount the newer gen5 and even better the gen6 engines. the gen6 come with roller cam shafts and can make some good torque/HP with basically factory parts. as for converting a truck engine to marine? well thats were there is two side of the fence. IMHO, the is no marine/truck engine, its all a matter of what you want the engine to do. building a motor to do what you want it to do is key. matching the torque/HP to the drive and size of boat has been a battle for many of years and still is, but there are many combonations that are working well. so i would say to post what you plan to do with your boat and what parts you plan to use and there are many people on here that can help.

[YeLLowBoaT]

I would also look at the ford crates the 514ci 625 hp is less them alot of the GM big blocks. Last time I looked you could pick one up for 6k...

[Some Kind Of Monster]

Go to a machine shop and have a motor built the RIGHT way. Those crate motors won't have the clearances needed to work properly in a jet boat. Sometimes you can use a car motor that has been well used, but it's a gamble. The only right way to do it is start from scratch and do it right!

[atxwrangler]

this is what you need! http://www.***boat.net/forums/showthread.php?t=130217

[SB]

Looks like a nice deal.
Forget the Olds. If you're going under 500 hp, the Ford can be done for slightly less money. If you're going over 500 hp, might as well go Chevy.

[Jetmugg]

I've got a 0.030" over 454 sitting in my garage right now. I had all the machine work done to put this engine in an 18' Gullwing, but later sold the boat and kept the engine. I can email all the details to you in the morning - everything is machine shop fresh, not even assembled yet. I have over $1K in the heads alone with 2.19 / 1.88 valves (0.100" longer than stock), new guides, etc., fresh ground crank (.010 under stock), approx 10.25:1 Speed Pro Hypereutectic pistons, moly rings on reworked stock rods with ARP rod bolts, ARP main bolts, SFI approved damper and flexplate, Stage 2 or 3 (can't remember right now) ISKY cam, lifters, and spring set by Duane Oblander, Speed Pro timing set, all bearings, gaskets, etc.
$2000 for everything - I can send the rest of the details in the morning.
I'm located in Festus, MO (just south of StLouis)

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

I've got a 0.030" over 454 sitting in my garage right now. I had all the machine work done to put this engine in an 18' Gullwing, but later sold the boat and kept the engine. I can email all the details to you in the morning - everything is machine shop fresh, not even assembled yet. I have over $1K in the heads alone with 2.19 / 1.88 valves (0.100" longer than stock), new guides, etc., fresh ground crank (.010 under stock), approx 10.25:1 Speed Pro Hypereutectic pistons, moly rings on reworked stock rods with ARP rod bolts, ARP main bolts, SFI approved damper and flexplate, Stage 2 or 3 (can't remember right now) ISKY cam, lifters, and spring set by Duane Oblander, Speed Pro timing set, all bearings, gaskets, etc.
$2000 for everything - I can send the rest of the details in the morning.
I'm located in Festus, MO (just south of StLouis)
Thats a smoking deal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

[HotRod Sprint]

Go to a machine shop and have a motor built the RIGHT way. Those crate motors won't have the clearances needed to work properly in a jet boat. Sometimes you can use a car motor that has been well used, but it's a gamble. The only right way to do it is start from scratch and do it right!
Ya, what he said. Way to put it out the right way Billy.
Rod

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Ya, what he said. Way to put it out the right way Billy.
Rod
Dammit rod, your making him look good because he IS right:D;)

[73kona455]

I've got a 0.030" over 454 sitting in my garage right now. I had all the machine work done to put this engine in an 18' Gullwing, but later sold the boat and kept the engine. I can email all the details to you in the morning - everything is machine shop fresh, not even assembled yet. I have over $1K in the heads alone with 2.19 / 1.88 valves (0.100" longer than stock), new guides, etc., fresh ground crank (.010 under stock), approx 10.25:1 Speed Pro Hypereutectic pistons, moly rings on reworked stock rods with ARP rod bolts, ARP main bolts, SFI approved damper and flexplate, Stage 2 or 3 (can't remember right now) ISKY cam, lifters, and spring set by Duane Oblander, Speed Pro timing set, all bearings, gaskets, etc.
$2000 for everything - I can send the rest of the details in the morning.
I'm located in Festus, MO (just south of StLouis)
jetmugg is a very nice person to deal with.....
hey jetmugg.. these pictures look familar?

[Some Kind Of Monster]

Dammit rod, your making him look good because he IS right:D;)
:rollside: :rollside: I learned from experience!! :crossx: :crossx:
It took me a LOOOOOOONG time to research exactly what I needed to do to build my motor. Do some searching and you will learn that jet boats NEED more clearance than other motors due to the fact that we are cooling them with lake water, and they are always under load. Take a poll and ask how many members here are using crate motors right out of the box in their jets and how long they have lasted. I don't know of anyone personally.

[Aluminum Squirt]

I use crate motors and so does everybody in my class, mostly because we have to. You get what you pay for. A crate motor will work under moderate conditions and reasonable HP and its a pretty good value (less than $4K gets you a steel crank, roller valve train, aluminum heads, a virgin block, good rods, and junk pistons). We use ZZ4's and get 100's of hours out of them, almost all of that time is at WOT. Can you make them work? Absolutely. There are some guys experimenting with the GM572 in race trim with some success. Do I think its the way to go if you don't have class restrictions and you can build whatever you want? Not really. All of those motors mentioned can do the job, just depends what job that is. Is it a ski/tube/lake boat, race boat, show boat, play boat, whitewater boat :boxed: ? Given a clean slate and no restrictions, I'd have a trusted machine shop with experience building the brand of motor you choose in marine applications put together something you both agree meets your financial and power goals. Don't use some crankster nobody has heard of or the guy that is a sprint car genius but has never built a marine engine. Good engine guys aren't cheap, the cheap ones build crap and go out of business quickly. Get recommendations from fellow boaters and find somebody that will stand behind their product. There is no replacement for good parts put together by a professional and some dyno time making sure you don't burn up your new baby with some bad jetting or timing. Put that all together with a matched impeller and a good pump and you will have many hours of trouble-free boating, quite possibly going damn fast if its in the right hull and set up right (if speed is your goal)-Aluminum Squirt

[SmokinLowriderSS]

I've got a 0.030" over 454 sitting in my garage right now. I had all the machine work done to put this engine in an 18' Gullwing, but later sold the boat and kept the engine. I can email all the details to you in the morning - everything is machine shop fresh, not even assembled yet. I have over $1K in the heads alone with 2.19 / 1.88 valves (0.100" longer than stock), new guides, etc., fresh ground crank (.010 under stock), approx 10.25:1 Speed Pro Hypereutectic pistons, moly rings on reworked stock rods with ARP rod bolts, ARP main bolts, SFI approved damper and flexplate, Stage 2 or 3 (can't remember right now) ISKY cam, lifters, and spring set by Duane Oblander, Speed Pro timing set, all bearings, gaskets, etc.
$2000 for everything - I can send the rest of the details in the morning.
I'm located in Festus, MO (just south of StLouis)
This is one hell of a deal IMO, as 396 said. If you can take it, I sure would.
I'm in the "build your own/have one built" boat personally. A LOT of what is upstairs is either already in my 454 , or on the horizon.
As 396 said earlier, I built moderate performance, for reliability, and built solid with an eye for future upgrading (due to budget restrictions). Lots of consultations with Duane at HTP, a local racing machine shop that has a long history of marine engines as well, and several gearhead friends of mine I consider knowledgable & worthy of trust. Then the decision-making began.
8.5:1 (no budget for pistons at the rebuild)
Stock crank & rods were solid
ARP rod bolts & main studs
Double-Moly rings
Clevite bearings
Isky cam kit, same source
3/8" pushrods & guides
aftermarket intake manifold
Headers came next.
Head work comes later with studs there too.

[Jetmugg]

Those pics of "Big Mike" running the Gullwing look great. How is the boat working out for him? That's the boat that I originally was building the 454 for. Then I sold the hull and trailer to JakeW, only to buy it back from him with the 460 Ford package. (It's a small world when it comes to jetboats).
Here's a little more info on the engine package:
Contact Information – Steve Menendez
Phone (days) – 636 – 224-0004 ext 216
Evenings – 636 931-2185
Email – Jetmugg @aol.com
All machine work performed at Precision Machine Inc (PMI), Jefferson City, MO (573)635-7214
2-bolt main Mark IV 454 block – bored 0.030” over stock – fresh from machine shop (not yet assembled) –
(will check casting dates on block – believed to be 1984) – work done by PMI
New cam bearings and freeze plugs installed in block (by PMI)
Factory cast crank ground 0.010” / 0.010” under stock on rods and mains – fresh from machine shop (PMI)
ARP main bolts – new in box
Clevite 77 bearings to match main and rod journals – new in box
Factory connecting rods re-sized and fitted with ARP Wave-loc bolts (by PMI)
Speed-Pro hypereutectic pistons w/ Teflon coated skirts (brand new) (yield approximately 10.25:1 with 119 cc heads below) – can provide part number for piston set
Pistons hung on rods with new speed pro wrist pins (by PMI)
Complete balanced rotating assembly (by PMI)
Speed-Pro plasma moly ring set – new in box
Speed-Pro double roller timing set – new in box
Isky 292 megacam – new in box
Isky mega-lifters to match cam – new in box
Isky double springs, retainers, shims, and polylocks – new and assembled on heads
(All Isky parts were purchased as a matched set by Duane Oblander at HTP)
GM “781” oval port heads – fresh from machine shop – Over $1000 in heads alone. (by PMI)
New 0.100” longer than stock Stainless Valves (PCM) with oversized 2.19/1.88 valve heads
New guides & seals in heads, machined spring pockets for springs above (heads are assembled, but never bolted to block) – (by PMI)
SFI approved flex plate – new in box
SFI approved damper – new in box
ARP damper bolt and washer – new in box
HEI distributor (if wanted)
Stock GM oil pump and pan
Complete Fel-Pro gasket set – new in box
extra guideplates,
complete extra valve set (Eaton SS 2.19/1.88 new in box)
stock rocker arms, pushrods
PRICE - $2000 for everything, including some parts I’ve probably forgotten about, including some Jetboat specific stuff – water neck fittings, motor mount feet for 4-point setup, rear mounts for a rail setup, polished driveline cover

[77Woodbridge]

Just curious...how much HP do you think that motor will make?

[Jetmugg]

Depending on the carb setup and headers used, I ran some Desktop Dyno numbers a while back. I don't remember the exact DD numbers, but they were over 500HP. I believe that Desktop Dyno can be a bit optimistic.
I think that 475-500 HP is a somewhat conservative estimate of HP at around 5400 rpm for this package.
SteveM.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

I think that 475-500 HP is a somewhat conservative estimate of HP at around 5400 rpm for this package.
SteveM.
THose look like some good numbers!! I will agree with those numbers;) and I will add that it will be reliable;)

[HotRod Sprint]

Dammit rod, your making him look good because he IS right:D;)
Michael if only we were that wise at his age :D
:rollside: :rollside: I learned from experience!! :crossx: :crossx:
It took me a LOOOOOOONG time to research exactly what I needed to do to build my motor. Do some searching and you will learn that jet boats NEED more clearance than other motors due to the fact that we are cooling them with lake water, and they are always under load. Take a poll and ask how many members here are using crate motors right out of the box in their jets and how long they have lasted. I don't know of anyone personally.
Billy, he's just jealous because you will be on the water before him and it's taken him longer to learn what you are already applying :D
Rod

[Some Kind Of Monster]

Billy, he's just jealous because you will be on the water before him and it's taken him longer to learn what you are already applying :D
Rod
Rod,
I've learned a lot from Michael. He's been a lot of my motivation to get this done and I'm always calling him up with all sorts of questions. I have a lot of people to thank. It's all about helping each other out and I can't wait to finish this project up so I can fine tune it and offer some advise to others. Michael will be back on the water in no time. He's crazy that way. I'll drive by his place and he's out there working on his boat at all hours of the night. Can't wait to see his new motor working!

[Devilman]

i have bought a project boat 19 ft tahiti just hull and pump no motor or mounting hardware so i can go with any motor 455,460or 454 i am leaning towards 454 i need info on what to look for older motor or newer what will it take to convert truck engine to marine engine any info would be gratefull has there been any threads for building 454
I'll just take a minute or two to throw my 2 cents in... If, for some odd reason or another, you get your hands on a "truck" engine, and it means using that truck engine & gettin to enjoy your boat for awhile, or not using it & leaving it parked while you get something together, I'd say throw that biatch in there & get on the water & enjoy yourself. A lot of people have said & will say, " a truck motor won't last, ya gotta have a "jetboat motor" or yer screwed." Well, maybe so & maybe no. At last count, 4 of my friends missed out on lots of boating because their "jetboat motors" crapped out on them & left 'em dead in the water. And I ain't talkin shade tree mechanics neither. I mean guys that had their shit together with these engines, with mucho guidance/experience & then for whatever reason, the motor gods decided to strike 'em down & put 'em on the sidelines. All that time, my old truck motor has been kicking along, pulled right outta the truck while the oil was still warm, dropped in the boat, & gone to the river. That was 2 years ago. Hell, I'm still running a front sump, 5 quart car pan. Call me crazy, but if ya do, make sure & say it when your pulled up next to me at the lake or sumthin, cause if not, I prolly won't hear ya, I'll be too busy running my boat.... :crossx: Naysayers, flame away!

[Some Kind Of Monster]

I'll just take a minute or two to throw my 2 cents in... If, for some odd reason or another, you get your hands on a "truck" engine, and it means using that truck engine & gettin to enjoy your boat for awhile, or not using it & leaving it parked while you get something together, I'd say throw that biatch in there & get on the water & enjoy yourself. A lot of people have said & will say, " a truck motor won't last, ya gotta have a "jetboat motor" or yer screwed." Well, maybe so & maybe no. At last count, 4 of my friends missed out on lots of boating because their "jetboat motors" crapped out on them & left 'em dead in the water. And I ain't talkin shade tree mechanics neither. I mean guys that had their shit together with these engines, with mucho guidance/experience & then for whatever reason, the motor gods decided to strike 'em down & put 'em on the sidelines. All that time, my old truck motor has been kicking along, pulled right outta the truck while the oil was still warm, dropped in the boat, & gone to the river. That was 2 years ago. Hell, I'm still running a front sump, 5 quart car pan. Call me crazy, but if ya do, make sure & say it when your pulled up next to me at the lake or sumthin, cause if not, I prolly won't hear ya, I'll be too busy running my boat.... :crossx: Naysayers, flame away!
I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just saying you're taking your chances.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

I'll just take a minute or two to throw my 2 cents in... If, for some odd reason or another, you get your hands on a "truck" engine, and it means using that truck engine & gettin to enjoy your boat for awhile, or not using it & leaving it parked while you get something together, I'd say throw that biatch in there & get on the water & enjoy yourself. A lot of people have said & will say, " a truck motor won't last, ya gotta have a "jetboat motor" or yer screwed." Well, maybe so & maybe no. At last count, 4 of my friends missed out on lots of boating because their "jetboat motors" crapped out on them & left 'em dead in the water. And I ain't talkin shade tree mechanics neither. I mean guys that had their shit together with these engines, with mucho guidance/experience & then for whatever reason, the motor gods decided to strike 'em down & put 'em on the sidelines. All that time, my old truck motor has been kicking along, pulled right outta the truck while the oil was still warm, dropped in the boat, & gone to the river. That was 2 years ago. Hell, I'm still running a front sump, 5 quart car pan. Call me crazy, but if ya do, make sure & say it when your pulled up next to me at the lake or sumthin, cause if not, I prolly won't hear ya, I'll be too busy running my boat.... :crossx: Naysayers, flame away!
Oh yeah.....We gotcha by tha nutz now d-man:D

[Devilman]

I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just saying you're taking your chances.
That's true, I agree with ya too, the "automotive" engines are not built to the same spec as the jetboat engines.... I've got a motor in the works as we speak cause I've had that little feeling in the back of my mind from time to time, "Is that a rattle? Did I push it too hard this time?" LOL. I just got from the original post that someone was lookin to get on the water. I was in the same boat (no pun intended, LOL) as he was, I just rolled the dice so I could get out there. That was 2 years ago & this past summer, while my boat has not been a hotrod by any means, has been the transportaion of choice, so to speak, for those less fortunate... :crossx: Mainly was just sayin not to rule out the truck motor, thats all. :rollside:

[Jetmugg]

Have you guys noticed that the original poster hasn't been back on this thread since he made the first post?
Hopefully he found a good 454 in the meantime.
SteveM.

[Devilman]

Oh yeah.....We gotcha by tha nutz now d-man:D
LMAO, its all good 396. One of them deals, thats all. I got one more boat deal to go to this weekend, after that, that old truck motor can break in half. :rollside: Lookin forward to hearin how that big 500+ c.i. yer workin comes together, maybe some of them foos I mentioned will take note! :cool:

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

LMAO, its all good 396. One of them deals, thats all. I got one more boat deal to go to this weekend, after that, that old truck motor can break in half. :rollside: Lookin forward to hearin how that big 500+ c.i. yer workin comes together, maybe some of them foos I mentioned will take note! :cool:
I feel ya :cool: I wish mine would have lasted one more outting:cry: but now I just use the excuse to build bigger;)

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Have you guys noticed that the original poster hasn't been back on this thread since he made the first post?
Hopefully he found a good 454 in the meantime.
SteveM.
Hell with all the spam deals going on, he better have jumped on something!!!!!!!!!!!!
There are some awesome deals floating around...

[KYBOATER]

thanks to all that posted replys i am just starting this project and wanted other peoples opinion on what was best and what to look for any motor i get will be gone thur completely the question about truck motors was are they a good starting point and what to do to make them jet motor i live in ky hull and jet are coming from ca havent seen hull except on ebay will post pictures when projects starts
thanks again