Oil leak at balancer...

[Hondo Jet]

First few trips out on my new engine went great. Had Moroso stamped valve covers with push in breathers, one on each side. No oil leaks, ran perfectly.
Changed valve covers to plain unvented polished aluminums and added the tall polished billet breathers from Rexmar. Took it out a couple weekends ago and ran it harder than I had before (read: like a maniac). First part of the day was fine, then later at 2500 rpm+ oil started spraying off of my balancer and made a fantastic mess. At first I did not realize where all the oil was coming from, then deduced that it had to be coming from the balancer area.
Brought it home and cleaned it up, oil level was at the full mark. Drained two quarts of oil (10 quart pan) which put it just a hair above the add mark and enlarged the already sufficient holes under the breathers to maximum to insure adequate breathing.
Took it back out Sunday and ran it for about an hour. It started slinging some oil but I hoped it was just residual, not so lucky. At 2500-3000 you can actually see the oil slinging off the balancer. At anything more all the way up to WOT it just vaporizes into a sticky mess that covers everything until it drips off. :yuk:
I have never had a timing cover seal go bad, and I feel certain that it is vented adequately. Otherwise it runs flawlessly and super strong. Interesting thing, picked up 200 rpm at WOT by draining the 2 quarts out of the pan.
I have not pulled the balancer yet to look a the seal, balancer appears to be good and tight so I dont think looseness is the problem.
Has anyone had a similar problem? Timing cover/balancer seals ever go bad? What should I be looking for as the cause of the problem? Suggestions?
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2864tmpphpvj0mvo.jpg

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Just instal a sleve and you will be fine. It will be a TCS45272 felpro part number or a victor JV929 part number

[SmokinLowriderSS]

I bet a PVC valve would help to lower the pressure in the crankcase. So many people want to run without them, but I just don't understand why. They are a great little zero-maintenance jewel for keeping crankcase pressure from building up.

[GofastRacer]

If this is a new Fel-Pro seal that is the problem, they been having problems with them leaking, if it isn't black then you have the new ones, otherwise check for a groove on the balancer, a sleeve saver will cure the problem if that's the case!..

[Hondo Jet]

I will pull the balancer and check seal and for groove.
Timing cover was a brand new still on the card Chevy Goodwrench part complete with new seal installed. I dont remember a groove on the balancer but I'll sure add the sleeve just for insurance.
I keep thinking its a venting problem. If its not breathing enough the first place it would push oil out is the front seal, right? The Rexmar breathers have three very course foam biscuits inside stacked on top of each other that offer virtually no air restriction when blowing through them. When I pulled them out, the lower biscuit was the only one that had oil on it at all. The upper two were dry. I'm thinking that if I take out the two dry biscuits that it would have to improve the breathing by 2/3.
You guys think its more of a seal/groove issue than breathing issue?

[SmokinLowriderSS]

If the balancer isn't groved, it's a venting or bad seal issue.

[Rexone]

Normally if it's a breathing issue it will pump oil out the breathers, not the front seal. The breathers are the path of least resistance vs a seal. Also make sure you don't have breathers mounted directly over a rocker arm.
Since you stated it didn't do it at first then later in the day started doing it clear down at 2500-3000 rpm I'd be checking the seal as this is something that deterioriated over some time frame. Maybe GM is using the fel pro seals Art mentioned. dunno.
You should have more breathing capacity now than you did with the Moroso push-ins.

[Oldsquirt]

Timing cover was a brand new still on the card Chevy Goodwrench part complete with new seal installed. I dont remember a groove on the balancer but I'll sure add the sleeve just for insurance.
Do NOT do that. Use the sleeve, and the seal that goes with it, ONLY if there is a groove. Do not use the sleeve with the stock seal, it will wear out prematurely. For the record there are also some applications where you can simply use a redesigned seal that moves the lip to a different point on the balancer. These are preferred over the sleeve deal. Don't know if they are available for BBC, however.
Concerning the front seal, there is something else to remember. The seal must be concentric to the seal surface on the balancer. The best way to insure this is to set the timing cover in place, install the balancer and THEN install/tighten the timing cover bolts. If the cover is difficult to line up,you may have an issue that could lead to premature wear/leaks. Most manufacturers have a special tool that replicates the inner portion of the balancer (that slips over the crank) to make this process easier.

[Oldsquirt]

One more thing....... If there is a groove in the balancer that is big enough to cause a serious oil leak, you should closely inspect the rest of the balancer. Specifically, look at the condition of the elastomer ring between the balancer hub and the outer steel ring. If it is cracked or looking perished in any way, you should replace the balancer.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

One more thing....... If there is a groove in the balancer that is big enough to cause a serious oil leak, you should closely inspect the rest of the balancer. Specifically, look at the condition of the elastomer ring between the balancer hub and the outer steel ring. If it is cracked or looking perished in any way, you should replace the balancer.
Good points oldsquirt;)

[Rexone]

One more thing....... If there is a groove in the balancer that is big enough to cause a serious oil leak, you should closely inspect the rest of the balancer. Specifically, look at the condition of the elastomer ring between the balancer hub and the outer steel ring. If it is cracked or looking perished in any way, you should replace the balancer.
I'll second that, as I've had one come apart. If rubber is cracked looking throw it in the trash. I've also had one move just enough to make me think I was seeing things on the timing light. Checked tdc when couldn't make er run, sure enough it moved about a inch.

[wsuwrhr]

You are talking about the timing mark right?
Brian
sure enough it moved about a inch.

[GofastRacer]

I'll second that, as I've had one come apart. If rubber is cracked looking throw it in the trash. I've also had one move just enough to make me think I was seeing things on the timing light. Checked tdc when couldn't make er run, sure enough it moved about a inch.
I wouldn't even think about running one of those balancers, I seen the outer ring come off on a new one before at high rpm and it acted like a buzz saw, it chopped up everything in it's path and then went out the side of the boat, that's some scary chit there!..

[Rexone]

Yes timing mark moved Brian... a bunch. Also the rubber didn't look all that bad on that particular balancer.
GFR, I wouldn't run one on a hipo boat motor either. These were in truck apps. I had one where the outer was half way off the inner. Luckily caught and replaced before the explosion. There's alot of them running around out there though on boats and they should be checked and replaced if the rubber is cracked / fatigued at all.

[Hondo Jet]

I pulled the balancer about an hour ago. The seal had come completely out of the timing cover. By the contact line on the seal it looks to me like it was never seated squarely in the cover to begin with. Not far off but a little off. Had no locktite or any other type of sealant other than the green stuff that comes on them. Seal is a CR 3860095.
I'm not real happy with the stamping of the cover, it appears that there is not a whole lot of flat contact area for the seal to mount into when compared to another cover that I had laying around.
Balancer looks good, no grooves, rubber looks fine.
I'm going to put another seal in it and make sure its all seated properly and try it again. If it comes out again I'll change out the timing cover for a more quality piece.
I should have pulled it apart before posting, but as long as I've been goofing with engines I've never had a front seal problem, much less a seal come out. With the changing of the other parts it just seemed too coincidental.
Thanks for all the help and suggestions. Mark

[Rexone]

I'm not real happy with the stamping of the cover, it appears that there is not a whole lot of flat contact area for the seal to mount into when compared to another cover that I had laying around.
I wonder if GM has gone to some cheap imported shit type cover. What you describe isn't good. I'd just change the cover now, being a known problem so you don't have to do it again if the seal doesn't have contact area to seat properly. If that's the case the seal will likely just come out again.

[Rexone]

I might have an old stock cover if it's a Mark 4 motor, laying around. If you need let me know.

[wsuwrhr]

I might have an old stock cover if it's a Mark 4 motor, laying around. If you need let me know.
Is it made of aluminum?
I might just want it.
:argue: :argue:
Brian

[Rexone]

No just an old stock steel one, rust included no extra charge. Did they even make stock alum?

[rrrr]

Concerning the front seal, there is something else to remember. The seal must be concentric to the seal surface on the balancer. The best way to insure this is to set the timing cover in place, install the balancer and THEN install/tighten the timing cover bolts.
Thass a good idea! I'll remember to do that next time.... :rollside:

[Hondo Jet]

Thanks for the offer Rexone, I will be changing the cover for sure after studying it a bit. There is only a small contact area where the seal and the cover came together. Seems to me the whole side of the seal should have been in contact with the cover, not just this small line. I think I just got a bad cover.
Anyone had better success with one brand of cover over another? Won't be a Goodwrench cover this time.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2864IMG_1894.JPG

[Rexone]

From my older experience GM was the way to go for stock covers (they may have changed the quality in later years). Stay away from the aftermarket cheapies (imported), thin material and poor fitment.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

No just an old stock steel one, rust included no extra charge. Did they even make stock alum?
I have one of these as well, I can include some traces of orange paint as incentive. :) Was a non-leaker for 27 years so is top quality. :idea: