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ahhell
01-19-2006, 07:22 PM
Go Garth (http://www.walmartworkersrights.org/)
Get a real job..........

djunkie
01-19-2006, 07:29 PM
Unions suck! :D

Hardly Satisfied
01-19-2006, 07:32 PM
F**K WALMART,THAT WAS A GREAT VIDEO :boxed:

lilrick
01-19-2006, 07:40 PM
live better work union! The only union haters I've ever met, aren't or haven't been part of one! GO UNION!!!!

ahhell
01-19-2006, 07:46 PM
my ? is...how much should you make being a wal-mart employee?????
mininum wage???? what kind of experience do you need???
full time = benefits
union = 15 an hour and I pay way too much for shit

djunkie
01-19-2006, 07:50 PM
By the way, my unions suck statement was only a joke. :rollside:

GHT
01-19-2006, 08:00 PM
Go Garth.... You do what you want.. This is the land of the free... This is the land where someone can do what they want, right?? Or maybe it isn't?? :confused: :confused:
The closest group / organization in America that could be mistaken for straight up Communism would be UNIONS (of course as in all circumstances this doesn't apply to ALL unions, it does apply to a majority)... Whatever you do don't do something THEY don't want you to do..... :yuk:
Time for POPCORN... :cry:

THOR
01-19-2006, 08:23 PM
Walmart is far from a real union. I havent been in a Walmart in well over 6 years. F uck that place. Bunch is fat, lazy idiots that work there anyway.
Real unions built this fine country.

Havasu_Dreamin
01-19-2006, 08:25 PM
live better work union! The only union haters I've ever met, aren't or haven't been part of one! GO UNION!!!!
I aint in a union, never would be, and I assure you I make some damn good money for 34 y/o and only a BS degree. So the whole live better work union BS, aint always true.

Havasu_Dreamin
01-19-2006, 08:26 PM
By the way, my unions suck statement was only a joke. :rollside:
I was gonna say, aren't you in a union. :D

NorCal Gameshow
01-20-2006, 04:47 PM
I aint in a union, never would be, and I assure you I make some damn good money for 34 y/o and only a BS degree. So the whole live better work union BS, aint always true.
Wow... a degree in BS :cool: :D I wonder how many life experience credits they would give me towards one? :)

Daytona19
01-21-2006, 03:24 AM
I am in a Union and this is my first company that I have been involved with as such. Been good for me, I make good cash for a non college educated person and I do a good job and am going to school thru our company to better myself. We have both union and (non union management) which is very interesting to see the mechanics of this on a daily basis. Bottom Line I have had 4 bosses in the last three years, most get "re-asigned" to some place in Bum F_ck egypt somewhere becuase they are the educated "BS" type and dont know CRAP!! Im not saying all with BS degrees know nothing but I have to say they know just enough to get themselves "re-asigned" like its going out of style. They are expendable, replaceable and of little value to the company unless they are doing exactly as they are told, dont rock the boat and follow directions with or without common sense. So in my case the union has been good, its givin me a chance where a good guy can bring life expirences, common sense and the desire to learn and make a good wage for his family and I dont have to take crap from the "educated idiots" that are trying to run the show. Bottom line our business ( electric & gas provider) has not changed in over 100 years but the cost has rose due to all the "BS" the suit types have imposed onto the company, meetings,summits,(commities "spelling???"),paperwork, more bosses than should be legally allowed you name it. So Union yes, for family, for respect, for life....

olbiezer
01-21-2006, 04:17 AM
garth brooks couldn't care less about unions.....to him its lets make me some more millions......wal mart can do that for him......more power to him......i am in a union and it is necessary......u can read about faa mismanagement all over the net......they couldnt force things on us for a long time now they started up with the tax payers cant afford us stuff.....id like to see :cry: :cry: the politacal appiontiess work air traffic.........

mickeyfinn
01-21-2006, 04:51 AM
Walmart is far from a real union. I havent been in a Walmart in well over 6 years. F uck that place. Bunch is fat, lazy idiots that work there anyway.
Real unions built this fine country.
I still think unions suck and wal-mart is not good for this country. You should however get your facts straight. They are not all fat and lazy. Take a look:
Walmart women galleries (http://www.nakedviolence.com/gallery/WalMart)

Old Texan
01-21-2006, 04:59 AM
Unions have moved into the same world as religion and politics from the standpoint of getting a hot polarized discussion working. Unions have proven to be a valuable asset to the workplace from the standpoint of working conditions, wages/benefits, and quality workmanship.
The problems I see are the generalization of the term union. Union means different things to different businesses, industry, and occupations. In some they are essential and effective, in others they are restictive and cumbersome.
Unions in the construction industry are vital in maintaining a workpool of professionals. "Build better, build union" is right on the money.
Teachers unions on the other hand have restricted educational advancement and hamstrung the ability of government and community to makes necessary changes in our system.

mickeyfinn
01-21-2006, 05:08 AM
Unions in the construction industry are just like unions everywhere else. People paying other people to speak for them. Twisting the employers arm in order to artificially drive the prevailing wage above the market. Unions just plain suck. At one time they had a time and a place. Today they serve no purpose other than to drive up cost and support themselves. Market wages is what industry should be paying. If you chose to work in a market suddenly saturated by available labor then you made a poor career choice. The fact that you joined a union and basically use extortion to get the wages you desire (notice it does not say deserve) for the rest of us to pay for your poor career choice through higher prices. I would love to see ALL unions busted wide open.
Anyone got more popcorn?

Biglue
01-21-2006, 10:29 AM
I see someone started another union thread.......always a crowd pleaser. :D
I have had my share of experiences with the unions. Both of them point at the union being in it for themselves. Given that it is a business that has some merit but not at the forced monthly expense for a service I dont want or need. I disagree with lazy people working limits of tolerance around a work place and hiding behind a union rep. We all must agree that many people that make a less than desired employee do these actions. Another thing I see that I disagree with is unions promising benefits and better wages. The union does not cover these expenses. The employers do. Perhaps my views are tunnel vision because I have been on the management side of things but even as a person I still disagree with it.

Dave C
01-21-2006, 10:58 AM
irony.... Union guys always say that they are the best, most well trained hard working employees and provide quality workmanship....... In that case, they should have no trouble being a success all on their own, without any "help". ;)

THOR
01-21-2006, 01:04 PM
I still think unions suck and wal-mart is not good for this country. You should however get your facts straight. They are not all fat and lazy. Take a look:
Walmart women galleries (http://www.nakedviolence.com/gallery/WalMart)
Whatever. You are like most and dont get the 'facts' that all the big jobs are union jobs cuz scabs cant do the work right.

hotlavey
01-21-2006, 01:19 PM
Unions in the construction industry are just like unions everywhere else. People paying other people to speak for them. Twisting the employers arm in order to artificially drive the prevailing wage above the market. Unions just plain suck. At one time they had a time and a place. Today they serve no purpose other than to drive up cost and support themselves. Market wages is what industry should be paying. If you chose to work in a market suddenly saturated by available labor then you made a poor career choice. The fact that you joined a union and basically use extortion to get the wages you desire (notice it does not say deserve) for the rest of us to pay for your poor career choice through higher prices. I would love to see ALL unions busted wide open.
Anyone got more popcorn?
You have my vote!

hotlavey
01-21-2006, 01:21 PM
Whatever. You are like most and dont get the 'facts' that all the big jobs are union jobs cuz scabs cant do the work right.
That is blatant horse---- and you know it!

Havasu_Dreamin
01-21-2006, 01:34 PM
its givin me a chance where a good guy can bring life expirences, common sense and the desire to learn and make a good wage for his family and I dont have to take crap from the "educated idiots" that are trying to run the show.
So, to use your logic anyone with a degree can't do the same?

Scream
01-21-2006, 01:35 PM
Well, IMO I think Union's suck, but I'm a business owner and have heard from other business owners who's businesses were severly crippled from being forced into using union labor, doubling or trippling the cost of doing business and changing from a cooperative work environment to one of contempt, deciet and completely adversarial. I realize that unions have had thier place and that they were absoluetly necessary, but that is not always the case nowadays.
Walmart on the other hand is probably one of the worst employers in the world today. Unions were made for businesses like Walmart. If the employees were to unionize it'd cut the legs out from under that 500# gorilla and that would be a good thing for everyone.
Scream

Tinkerer
01-21-2006, 02:04 PM
DUH -- of course if you work in a union - unions are going to be great.
But what I see is the unions are doing is getting middle income wages for minimum wage or slightly better jobs.
This then raises the cost of what ever the company makes to a level that they can no longer compete with the rest of the world.
I never could see how a company could make something over seas and ship it here for cheaper than we could make it here locally.
It used to be that the overseas item was not of the same quallity as the locally made item but that is no longer true.
This statement is not true for all unions but it sure is for most.
Look as DELPHI.
27$ an hour for an assembly line job that takes no real skills as all.
I was talking to the owner of one of the factories that I do service for and he said that the DELPHI employies were making about $60 with benefits.
I don't agree with what the management at DELPHI was up to but I think that there is just way too much greed out there.
Why should someone doing a no skills job earn this kind of $.
Just because the unions can is not a good answer.
ALL the unions did was shoot themselves and their members in the foot.
I work in a lot of factories doing mechanical repairs and see the jobs that these union people are doing.
Most of these jobs could be learned in less than an hour and be proficient at in less than a day.
I had a friend that worked in a union shop that did piece work.
On friday they would bust ass and get the piece work done with 1/3 of the day left and it was OK for them to play cards for the rest of the day.
My answer to him was if they were able to do it that much quicker then why didn't they up the piece work amount.
His answer was that the union wouldn't let the management do it.
OH and they got paid for the whole day.

Big Warlock
01-21-2006, 02:21 PM
For the union guys........
Take the amount of money you are paying into the union retirement plan. Figure how much you will pay for 30 years. Then see the union table on what they will pay you at the end of 30 years in retirement. Makes Social Security seem good! LOL
Take that same amount of money and figure compounding interest for 30 years. How much is there? Then give it, tax free at about 4% and what would you get for the rest of your life?
Still like the union? :rolleyes:
Where does the money go? Ask your BA! :220v:
There is a place for unions. But it goes both ways. A guy driving a forklift in a warehouse shouldn't be paid 100K per year. That's crazy stuff. If your so damn smart and good at everything, you should have no problem stepping up to the table and making a business of your own.
And as a decent human being, having worked in the trenches, you should pay people a fair wage and share in the wealth you create together. That's called profit sharing and it can be easily created and explained. I have "X" amount of money invested in the business and I want to earn 12% on my money for risk, wealth enhancement, hard work, ideas, etc. etc. The remainder will be split amongst the employees and management. It then becomes "our" business.
This has worked well for me. Not perfect, but better than most. No union required. :cool:

Old Texan
01-21-2006, 03:09 PM
Scream, Tinkerer, and Big Warlock bring up the points I've always felt about the current union situation. Obviously 3 views from real perspectives. Then throw in what Thor has to say. This is what I mentioned in my previous post. Unions are different things to different situations.
Construction and skilled trades to provide competent workers able to perform quality work: unions are good. Small businesses that require skilled labor able to perform multitasking and be efficient, namely ability to think on your feet and perform jobs that require critical decison making: unions bad.
Walmart? This company is a bit of an enigma. Most people that complain want to have the old Made in America, loyalty to the local merchant mentality. What Walmart really is, is a purveyor of good to mediocre product, that buys cheap thru volume, has tremendous cash flow and ability to put everything in one storefront, and thru their business model, provide low prices.
I shop at Walmart for 3 reasons: convenience, low prices, and anything I buy that is defective (sometimes stuff I buy elswhere) I get replacement or new product. My loyalty is to my baank account. I don't give a rat's behind about loyalty to anything else.
Walmart employs the bottom end of the labor market. They have another level of workers that are paid better and get equivalent pay and bennies. As you climb the ladder things get better. It's really not that bad of a business model. They are successful. Will a union fit? Sure. But ask yourself why. Because second rate or entry level employees need to have first rate pay and benefits? No. These people have a choice. If they are good hard workers they will advance and get what they earn. If they are slackers and give the minimum effort they get what they earn. If you think about it, this is really the way it should be in the job market. The slackers don't deserve union representation to force Walmart to pay them more for less performance.
Unions have a place and there are businesses that will be hurt by unions. It's just not a black and white issue.

THOR
01-21-2006, 06:13 PM
That is blatant horse---- and you know it!
Not really. Pretty true. Name one big job that is a non union job.
Also, for the second time, Walmart is not a union company that utilizes and actual trade like the carpenters, sheet metals, iron workers, etc. There is a huge difference there. Walmart sucks balls and I will never set foot in one.

THOR
01-21-2006, 06:14 PM
Scream, Tinkerer, and Big Warlock bring up the points I've always felt about the current union situation. Obviously 3 views from real perspectives. Then throw in what Thor has to say. This is what I mentioned in my previous post. Unions are different things to different situations.
Construction and skilled trades to provide competent workers able to perform quality work: unions are good. Small businesses that require skilled labor able to perform multitasking and be efficient, namely ability to think on your feet and perform jobs that require critical decison making: unions bad.
Walmart? This company is a bit of an enigma. Most people that complain want to have the old Made in America, loyalty to the local merchant mentality. What Walmart really is, is a purveyor of good to mediocre product, that buys cheap thru volume, has tremendous cash flow and ability to put everything in one storefront, and thru their business model, provide low prices.
I shop at Walmart for 3 reasons: convenience, low prices, and anything I buy that is defective (sometimes stuff I buy elswhere) I get replacement or new product. My loyalty is to my baank account. I don't give a rat's behind about loyalty to anything else.
Walmart employs the bottom end of the labor market. They have another level of workers that are paid better and get equivalent pay and bennies. As you climb the ladder things get better. It's really not that bad of a business model. They are successful. Will a union fit? Sure. But ask yourself why. Because second rate or entry level employees need to have first rate pay and benefits? No. These people have a choice. If they are good hard workers they will advance and get what they earn. If they are slackers and give the minimum effort they get what they earn. If you think about it, this is really the way it should be in the job market. The slackers don't deserve union representation to force Walmart to pay them more for less performance.
Unions have a place and there are businesses that will be hurt by unions. It's just not a black and white issue.
What did I say that was so bad. Big jobs with highly skilled trades are not union jobs. Simple. At least not here in Cali.

Cat Skinner
01-21-2006, 06:21 PM
I shop at Walmart for 3 reasons: convenience, low prices, and anything I buy that is defective (sometimes stuff I buy elswhere) I get replacement or new product. My loyalty is to my baank account. I don't give a rat's behind about loyalty to anything else.
There is the answer folks. No loyalty to anyone but yourself. I guess that's the new American way.
CS

THOR
01-21-2006, 06:25 PM
Construction and skilled trades to provide competent workers able to perform quality work: unions are good. Small businesses that require skilled labor able to perform multitasking and be efficient, namely ability to think on your feet and perform jobs that require critical decison making: unions bad.
That is what I said many times on here. WHat is so wrong with MY perspective. Keep the small jobs non union. It doesnt benefit those types of workers.

nodigg
01-21-2006, 06:37 PM
live better work union! The only union haters I've ever met, aren't or haven't been part of one! GO UNION!!!!
POPCORN TIME!
I did two stretches for union jobs totalling 7 years, I HATE UNIONS!
Live better, get a union to protect your right to good off.
POPCORN! Get your popcorn!

Parker Dreamin
01-21-2006, 06:42 PM
Unions suck! :D
Ya, what he said.....

Moneypitt
01-21-2006, 07:17 PM
Union members beware! The dollars you invest in your retirement aren't yours until the union says you've been a union member long enough. I'm not talking about employer or union matching funds, I'm talking about YOUR money they're taking, holding, investing, using for political reasons, etc. Should you leave THEIR union before THEY think you should, those funds are GONE down the toilet, never to be seen again by you!! AND it was your MONEY...........MP

mickeyfinn
01-21-2006, 07:18 PM
Unions are just legal theft. If a group of businesses get together to accomplish the same thing it is called price fixing.

GMFL
01-21-2006, 07:44 PM
Unions in the construction industry are vital in maintaining a workpool of professionals. "Build better, build union" is right on the money.
You've got to be kidding. 90% of the union members that I've ever worked with were worthless. In California and in most of the U.S. we have Contractor License boards and City Building inspectors that make sure that everything is built correctly. I GUARANTY you the Unions and their members could care less about quality.

hoolign
01-21-2006, 07:56 PM
Without reading this whole thread.. Unions were usefull when they were first organized. When men would work their asses off for 25 cents an hour and pay 40 cents for a loaf of bread, when men were forced to do dangerous tasks and would comply as they didnt want to lose thier jobs. What are unions now? A committee souly based on collecting cash in lawsuits resulting from some pansy ass not wanting to sweep when he's paid to mop. Some half assed illiterate teacher who has to go to the gym at 5 so can't stay for 15 minutes after school to help someone who want's to ask a trig question. The education system is the biggest downfall of the "Unions" Teachers who can't teach ..demanding more money for teaching less??? Gimma freakin break!! Some dumbass gets a job with the city sewer and can't run a shovel because his nail is chipped?? then who's on the matt?? the management ..who's taken to the "union " and penalized because "Roule " had his feelings hurt when his boss told him he's a freakin wimp! My bud is a union boss, told some wimp " your a woman in a mans body"..a while later he got served..it turned out that the faggot was a woman in a mans body"... but don't apply for a job at suzie freaking hair fags!!!Take up a job at a mine!. We wonder why shit costs so much??? Some grade 8 dropout is worth 30 bucks an hour to push a mop?? You want big money ...earn it .. go to school to deserve it. Show your worth it! ..fukk unions!
rant over ...flame on :D

GMFL
01-21-2006, 08:01 PM
Name one big job that is a non union job.
There are many large, non union, jobs out there. However your statement is a little misleading. Many large construction companies go after the large government contracts. Our so insightful (Ca.) government officials have decided to spend our tax dollars by requiring that contractors, working on govt. projects pay a "prevailing" wage. Somehow (?) this wage ties into the union pay scales.
As an employer, going after (very lucrative) govt. jobs, why would you care if your company was Union or not. In order to get the job, you've got to pay the same wage. Why bother trying to keep the union out of your company. Let your sucker employees pay a union to "fight" for their rights. Of course, if the Union wasn't there, they would still get paid the same, just wouldn't have to pay dues. Oh, well, "Live better, (Union boss), Work Union (you stupid sucker)

GMFL
01-21-2006, 08:21 PM
Another great job that the Unions are doing for our wonderful country and its citizens. This is from the County of Orange website of Eric Norby.
Board to End Project Labor Agreement
The Board of Supervisors voted 4-1 to provide legal notification to end the Project Labor Agreement, set to expire at the end of 2005. I strongly support the Board’s action, having campaigned against the PLA during my 2002 election effort.
The PLA allows only unionized firms to receive county construction contracts. It was hastily approved in 2000, when a 3-2 Board majority sought organized labor’s help in securing approval for the proposed El Toro Airport. It has since been under attack by small independent contractors for squeezing out non-unionized companies from county contracts.
What made this PLA particularly egregious was its scope. Typically, a PLA is approved on a project-by-project basis, in order to keep competing unions from jurisdictional disputes that might shut down the jobsite. This PLA applied to virtually ALL construction work done by the County. This locked out 75% of the OC firms that are non-unionized, with additional costs of 10-30%. State Prevailing Wage laws already require that workers on county jobsites receive generous compensation, whether or not they are unionized.
Yea, go union. :220v:

THOR
01-21-2006, 08:22 PM
There are many large, non union, jobs out there. However your statement is a little misleading. Many large construction companies go after the large government contracts. Our so insightful (Ca.) government officials have decided to spend our tax dollars by requiring that contractors, working on govt. projects pay a "prevailing" wage. Somehow (?) this wage ties into the union pay scales.
As an employer, going after (very lucrative) govt. jobs, why would you care if your company was Union or not. In order to get the job, you've got to pay the same wage. Why bother trying to keep the union out of your company. Let your sucker employees pay a union to "fight" for their rights. Of course, if the Union wasn't there, they would still get paid the same, just wouldn't have to pay dues. Oh, well, "Live better, (Union boss), Work Union (you stupid sucker)
Bull$hit. Not one union outfit (outside of Grinnell) can man a big job or do it right. But, Grinnell has a union side too. Scabs cant man a large union job. Dont kid yourself. Unions are plenty useful if you feel like get the job done correctly and on time. If you want crap work that is done and will fall down in ten years, hire scabs.

THOR
01-21-2006, 08:24 PM
Unions are just legal theft. If a group of businesses get together to accomplish the same thing it is called price fixing.
I love how guys name call to identify a quality and superior product. Funny how that works. Theft? Now that is just comical. I wont pick on you anymore; I dont want you to bleed.

hoolign
01-21-2006, 08:31 PM
Bull$hit. Not one union outfit (outside of Grinnell) can man a big job or do it right. But, Grinnell has a union side too. Scabs cant man a large union job. Dont kid yourself. Unions are plenty useful if you feel like get the job done correctly and on time. If you want crap work that is done and will fall down in ten years, hire scabs.
SO... an uneducated " union" construction" worker does a better job than an "uneducated" non union worker?? do the union workers get supplied with self aiming hammers?? The only reason it's a "union job" is the preverbial "one hand washes the other"

Tinkerer
01-21-2006, 08:39 PM
THOR
I guaranty you that I can do better work than 95% of union workers in my field.
If I couldn't I wouldn't be where I am today.
I am currently making about double the wages of a union worker.
And it is all uphill from here.

Hal
01-21-2006, 08:42 PM
Been a union member for over 25 years and yes they suck every dollar they can out of you. It pisses me off so much I don't even want to talk about it.

GMFL
01-21-2006, 09:04 PM
Bull$hit. Not one union outfit (outside of Grinnell) can man a big job or do it right.
Try Covi Concrete. When the local (OC) market was in a slump, ten or so years ago, many of the larger concrete contractors went to Vegas as the market there was booming. Covi stepped in here and started building relationships. When the local market turned the big guys came back and got a surprise. Covi, a non-union contractor, had some large jobs. Union guys didn't like that too much so they sent picketers to the Covi job sites. This is what I like the most. The Picketers were not Union members, but hired but the union for minimum wage and NO BENIFITS. Classic.
BTW, Covi kept out the union, produced a quality product, paid fair wages and yes, made a fair profit.
Again, as I posted above the unions do NOT control or offer any better quality or correctness, let alone do their work any quicker. The jobs are monitored by local govt’s. and inspected for the work done. Anything not done correct, is not passed. As a contractor, it is in your best interest to do the work properly the first time. Union or not.
As a quick example, the carpool lane from the 55 South to the 405 South in OC was delayed in opening because of cracks in the concrete. The delay was almost a year and cost multi-millions to correct. Oh yea, it was a UNION job. Your guys sure have job security though.

havasu5150
01-21-2006, 09:25 PM
The transportation industry (read trucking), used to be dominated by Union carriers. Today this is not the case. Yellow Freight, Roadway Express and ABF are the only significant remaining union carriers. (now less than 30% of market share)
Non union carriers are currently providing better sevice to their customers and charge less....and have a much better profit margin. Not due to having better employees, but rather fewer constraints. The hourly wage is not that much different, the variance comes contractural restrictions, and in the benefits. EX: Union; 100% medical. In the prevailing marketplace, this is almost unheard of...Copays, employee contibutions are common. This will be a BIG issue in the next contract. If this thinking continues, I forsee a continued shift away from Union employees

AzMandella
01-21-2006, 09:41 PM
Unions are a joke.Has anyone here noticed that the states that are predominatly union(Cali,NY,And the east coast)are the highest cost of living.My brother in law is in Local 101 in NY and makes about 150,000 a year.About 50% more than my wife and I together and we are far more financialy secure because it costs them double what it cost us to live in Tucson.Boy I could see it if Mc Donalds went union"that will be 15.95 for your Big Mack meal deal sir because we have to pay the juniorhigh dropout behind the grill 75,000$ a year to sit ther and flip burgers going Duhhhhh."My family buisness was union untill we got fed up and shut down long enough to break the union out and then when we reopened and only hired back 60% of the workforce and lo and behold production was up over 100%.No more lazy ass union scum sitting around hiding behind their contract.

BajaMike
01-21-2006, 09:46 PM
live better work union! The only union haters I've ever met, aren't or haven't been part of one! GO UNION!!!!
You're insane....I've been a member of at least 3 unions...Retail Clerks, Teamsters, and United Mine Workers, and they all sucked. :220v:
Did absolutely nothing for me but take my money.... :yuk:
And the union bosses/managers were all currupt..... :crossx:
UNIONS SUCK!!!!!
:rollside: :yuk: :cry:

AzMandella
01-21-2006, 09:52 PM
live better work union! The only union haters I've ever met, aren't or haven't been part of one! GO UNION!!!!
Spoken like a person who want's to continue to get paid far more than he is worth wether it costs us AND YOU more in the long run.

HighRoller
01-21-2006, 10:03 PM
Why don't we ask the soon-to-be bankrupt Domestic Auto manufacturers what they think of the unions. What about the already failing Airlines? The common denominator? The unions choked the life out of all of them. Wal-Mart, on the other hand, is the most successful business in the world right now because they know the value of a dollar and they refuse to OVERPAY their employees. If you don't like Wal-Mart, don't shop there.
I don't dispute that unions once had their place. But now that we have become an excessively litigious society and have governmental oversight of everyone and everything, unions are as obsolete as the buggy whip.
This whole thing has NOTHING to do with the workers' rights. It's about the fact that Wal-Mart is more successful than any union staffed chain. Thanks to the unions and their insistence that we pay a minimally skilled checker 20+ dollars an hour, Wal-Mart has now become the largest grocer in the world as well as the largest retailer. It's all about competition. Unions cannot and will not compete. PERIOD. And now that they've realized they cannot beat Wal-Mart in a straight up fair competition, they will resort to dirty tricks and defamation. Nice try, but 100 million people a week still vote for Wal-Mart with their wallets....

Old Texan
01-22-2006, 09:07 AM
There is the answer folks. No loyalty to anyone but yourself. I guess that's the new American way.
CS
The object is to pay the least to get the most. If Walmart has the same product at a lower price than Joe's General Store please explain what Joe has done to earn the extra money? Am I to pay for his big smile? If Joe's roof needs fixing or he gets his parking lot repaved, I guarranty he goes with the contractor with best price.
Allegiance to any business is foolish if it costs more with no other benefit.
I prefer to keep my money for my use, not hand it over just because of some hollow principle. I'm not going to be some martyr to the "cause". My obligation is to my family to manage my money and provide them with the best way of life possible. Key is MY money, that I earned with hard work. That's the American way and it ain't new.

THOR
01-22-2006, 09:14 AM
THOR
I guaranty you that I can do better work than 95% of union workers in my field.
If I couldn't I wouldn't be where I am today.
I am currently making about double the wages of a union worker.
And it is all uphill from here.
Good for you. Congrats. You should be proud. You are the minority though for large jobs here in Cali or Nevada.

THOR
01-22-2006, 09:14 AM
SO... an uneducated " union" construction" worker does a better job than an "uneducated" non union worker?? do the union workers get supplied with self aiming hammers?? The only reason it's a "union job" is the preverbial "one hand washes the other"
Always excuses.

Cat Skinner
01-22-2006, 11:18 AM
The object is to pay the least to get the most. If Walmart has the same product at a lower price than Joe's General Store please explain what Joe has done to earn the extra money? Am I to pay for his big smile? If Joe's roof needs fixing or he gets his parking lot repaved, I guarranty he goes with the contractor with best price.
Allegiance to any business is foolish if it costs more with no other benefit.
I prefer to keep my money for my use, not hand it over just because of some hollow principle. I'm not going to be some martyr to the "cause". My obligation is to my family to manage my money and provide them with the best way of life possible. Key is MY money, that I earned with hard work. That's the American way and it ain't new.
Well I guess I'm still small town. What if your wife or your son works for Joe's and Walmart comes in and puts them out of business. Now lets say they put all the Independents out of business. What keeps them from jacking the prices and loweing wages? Bottom line thinking doesn't always work. Walmart as well as other large chains use a tactic of pulling in contractors to make their products and then telling them to lower their prices after they have shed their other contracts to service the large customer. Now this supplier has to make cuts to stay profitable :i.e. wages. Kind of a visious cycle. I know everyone is going to say it's natural selection but when it's your job that gets cut your outlook tends to change.
I've been lucky to work for a strong union. Operating Engineers local 3. We stay strong by providing quality people and with constant training. Not every operator is good, some downright suck. If I call the hall for an operator and he can't do the job, I get rid of him and if it's in the first two hours he recieves no pay. If that happens three times he is moved to the C list.
I'm surprised that all you union experts have not mentioned health care costs. My last 5 raises have pretty much been taken by rising health care cost. I don't think the nurses union is to blame for that. More like bottom line thinking by the drug companies.
The more that companies treat their emplyees as an expendable resource the more likely that unions will remain in my opinion. CS

Old Texan
01-22-2006, 01:57 PM
Well I guess I'm still small town. What if your wife or your son works for Joe's and Walmart comes in and puts them out of business. Now lets say they put all the Independents out of business. What keeps them from jacking the prices and loweing wages? Bottom line thinking doesn't always work. Walmart as well as other large chains use a tactic of pulling in contractors to make their products and then telling them to lower their prices after they have shed their other contracts to service the large customer. Now this supplier has to make cuts to stay profitable :i.e. wages. Kind of a visious cycle. I know everyone is going to say it's natural selection but when it's your job that gets cut your outlook tends to change.
I've been lucky to work for a strong union. Operating Engineers local 3. We stay strong by providing quality people and with constant training. Not every operator is good, some downright suck. If I call the hall for an operator and he can't do the job, I get rid of him and if it's in the first two hours he recieves no pay. If that happens three times he is moved to the C list.
I'm surprised that all you union experts have not mentioned health care costs. My last 5 raises have pretty much been taken by rising health care cost. I don't think the nurses union is to blame for that. More like bottom line thinking by the drug companies.
The more that companies treat their emplyees as an expendable resource the more likely that unions will remain in my opinion. CS
I grew up in small town that I still visit. The mom and pop businesses that can't compete, fail. People drive 20-30 miles to shop at the Walmarts and other chains that offer selection and prices.
You are your own decison maker on either side. The day of the small busness that doesn't think ahead and find a way to provide better, service, higher quality merchandise, or other intangibles will fail. Walmart isn't the problem, the problem is the business owner. If he doesn't have a plan and the sense to execute he fails.
I've seen many small businesses that work right along side a big discounter and survive because they have the intangibles and service at competitive prices to form their own niche.
I have a friend that sells used cars. Many lots cried about Auto Nation and Carmax. Not my friend. He put several lots right down the street from the big guys, bought simillar inventory to their popular models, set his prices 10% lower, advertised like h*ll, offered aftermarket warranty, and cleaned house. His sales incresed.
There are orginizations and books offering ways to compete and succeed in the shadows of the Walmarts. It just takes hardwork and business sense. Use Walmart to YOUR advantage.
I wouldn't really call it natural selection, I'd call it Capitalism. That's what made this country and will continue to make it grow. Union or no union, a business better know their market, have a workable plan, and turn a profit.
Change is inevitable and ongoing, if you don't plan for thefuture you fail.

nodigg
01-22-2006, 10:12 PM
You're insane....I've been a member of at least 3 unions...Retail Clerks, Teamsters, and United Mine Workers, and they all sucked. :220v:
Did absolutely nothing for me but take my money.... :yuk:
And the union bosses/managers were all currupt..... :crossx:
UNIONS SUCK!!!!!
:rollside: :yuk: :cry:
DAng Mike, didn't realize we shared union withdrawal cards and the hatred of unions too!...guess we could talk more when we party..............well maybe not! :rollside:

nodigg
01-22-2006, 10:13 PM
Been a union member for over 25 years and yes they suck every dollar they can out of you. It pisses me off so much I don't even want to talk about it.
Thank you for helping me to be glad I decided to be "jumped out" 20 years or so back!

Seadog
01-23-2006, 06:47 AM
Ford just announced a major round of layoffs. The greed of unions have a lot to do with it, as does the wrong impression many idiots have that the Japanese cars are made better (or at least that is the excuse they give to justify their choice).
If the prostitutes were to unionize, would this give you a cleaner, tighter hole? Instead of a pimp, you would be paying the union bosses. Instead of choice, the oldest pros would have first dibbs on taking care of you. No negotiating for a better price, instead she would tell you "union rules". No special techniques without consulting a rate sheet. Imagine having to go to one for a BJ, then another for MP, and so forth, because it would be outside their scope of work. Of course, eventually, everyone would wind up with a Mexican or Chinese Ho because they do a better job at a lower rate.

AzMandella
01-23-2006, 05:47 PM
Ford just announced a major round of layoffs. The greed of unions have a lot to do with it, as does the wrong impression many idiots have that the Japanese cars are made better (or at least that is the excuse they give to justify their choice).
If the prostitutes were to unionize, would this give you a cleaner, tighter hole? Instead of a pimp, you would be paying the union bosses. Instead of choice, the oldest pros would have first dibbs on taking care of you. No negotiating for a better price, instead she would tell you "union rules". No special techniques without consulting a rate sheet. Imagine having to go to one for a BJ, then another for MP, and so forth, because it would be outside their scope of work. Of course, eventually, everyone would wind up with a Mexican or Chinese Ho because they do a better job at a lower rate.
That's hillarious. :) :) But so true.

THOR
01-23-2006, 06:00 PM
The greed of unions have a lot to do with it, as does the wrong impression many idiots have that the Japanese cars are made better (or at least that is the excuse they give to justify their choice).
I agree with this a bunch. Foreign cars are just made better? Bullshit. Guys like to justify by paying the foreign automakers money. That is a very large reason why the big four are having problems. Maybe if a little pride was taken here at home, many more workers at the auto plants would have been making more cars instead of Honda, Toyota etc making that crap. I have yet to see a f'n Honda or Toyota with a payload of 12K lbs.

GMFL
01-23-2006, 07:09 PM
If the prostitutes were to unionize, would this give you a cleaner, tighter hole? Instead of a pimp, you would be paying the union bosses. Instead of choice, the oldest pros would have first dibbs on taking care of you. No negotiating for a better price, instead she would tell you "union rules". No special techniques without consulting a rate sheet. Imagine having to go to one for a BJ, then another for MP, and so forth, because it would be outside their scope of work. Of course, eventually, everyone would wind up with a Mexican or Chinese Ho because they do a better job at a lower rate.
This is SO true, or so I've been told. BTW, what's an MP?
I feel so stupid right now.

Big Warlock
01-23-2006, 07:54 PM
I'm a real dumbass! I am in the top 100 specialty contracors in the west. I should be union and go after those lucrative government contracts so I can make 3 to 5 % !!! Good idea!!!
Tell that to the only union run airline, United. They did a great job over there! Delta will be next. And the grocery strike was a real winner.
Think about this. While the grocery workers were out on strike and some lost their homes, etc etc., how many paychecks do you think the union officials missed? And why couldn't these people go work elsewhere? Instead they sat at home and cried the blues. Was it worth it? Could they ever make that money back? Nope. And I love the people standing outside the corprate headquarters. They aren't even legal aliens for God's sake! How pathetic! You going to tell me that a bunch of Mexican nationals were adversly affected by the grocery strike? I have never seen any of them working in the grocery store? That was weird! :rollside:
There was and is a place for unions. But they are not the end all to be all. You have to take control of your own life. You give it to the union, what's the difference in giving it to a company of your choosing?
Most professionals are not in a union. Figure that one out. Who joins the union? Hmmmmmmmmm
(And yes, I was in the Teamsters for a year, way back when)

mickeyfinn
01-23-2006, 07:57 PM
mp=missionary position??

THOR
01-23-2006, 08:08 PM
Most professionals are not in a union. Figure that one out. Who joins the union? Hmmmmmmmmm
Pure class. Say that on a big union job. Let me know when so I can watch your professionalism at work. :rolleyes:

hoolign
01-23-2006, 08:09 PM
I'm a real dumbass! I am in the top 100 specialty contracors in the west. I should be union and go after those lucrative government contracts so I can make 3 to 5 % !!! Good idea!!!
Tell that to the only union run airline, United. They did a great job over there! Delta will be next. And the grocery strike was a real winner.
Think about this. While the grocery workers were out on strike and some lost their homes, etc etc., how many paychecks do you think the union officials missed? And why couldn't these people go work elsewhere? Instead they sat at home and cried the blues. Was it worth it? Could they ever make that money back? Nope. And I love the people standing outside the corprate headquarters. They aren't even legal aliens for God's sake! How pathetic! You going to tell me that a bunch of Mexican nationals were adversly affected by the grocery strike? I have never seen any of them working in the grocery store? That was weird! :rollside:
There was and is a place for unions. But they are not the end all to be all. You have to take control of your own life. You give it to the union, what's the difference in giving it to a company of your choosing?
Most professionals are not in a union. Figure that one out. Who joins the union? Hmmmmmmmmm
(And yes, I was in the Teamsters for a year, way back when)
It's amazing how many brainwashed people don't have a clue why unions were created and just why they are past their point of usefulness!! Other than to benefit the union rather than the worker...as they were first designed to!! Your line of thinking is right in tune with the "common sense" crowd!

stvneil
01-23-2006, 08:46 PM
i would hate to be a union employee for ford and all of a sudden i would have to go to work for a living. what a rude awakening. that $50.00 hour employee will see what he is worth when he has to prove himself everyday. oh shit! :cry:

TeamGreene
01-23-2006, 08:50 PM
It's funny how you always see a "Live better work union" sticker on a peice of shit car. Just my .02 worth

hoolign
01-23-2006, 09:07 PM
I think ( ASSUME) that the majority of union workers are ..stuck in a rut! we all need to feed the family, we all need to pay the bills. and for some it's just a sequence of events that brings them into a union job. .We're not all alike with the same options or circumstances..We all want the best that we can supply for ouir families! and in my opinion ..unions must be phased out! their time has come and gone! let real men earn thier living and let the pansies who run the unions takes off their supplied skirts and grab a shovel, a pick, a wrench..an education whatever it so be..and earn your money.

stvneil
01-23-2006, 09:11 PM
I think ( ASSUME) that the majority of union workers are ..stuck in a rut! we all need to feed the family, we all need to pay the bills. and for some it's just a sequence of events that brings them into a union job. .We're not all alike with the same options or circumstances..We all want the best that we can supply for ouir families! and in my opinion ..unions must be phased out! their time has come and gone! let real men earn thier living and let the pansies who run the unions takes off their supplied skirts and grab a shovel, a pick, a wrench..an education whatever it so be..and earn your money.
heaven forbid the business has to go to work! :cry:

hoolign
01-23-2006, 09:13 PM
heaven forbid the business has to go to work! :cry:
\
We all have to pull cash!

Eliminator 4 Life
01-23-2006, 09:52 PM
Unions suck! :D
especially the fawkin long shoremans union :cool: