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View Full Version : So, does the freak'in plane fly?



AirtimeLavey
11-04-2006, 02:43 PM
Let's see some numbers on how many think what...

wsuwrhr
11-04-2006, 03:37 PM
Got your answer there chief?
Got MY answer yet chief?
Brian

AirtimeLavey
11-04-2006, 03:54 PM
Got your answer there cheif?
Got MY answer yet cheif?
Brian
I threw mine out there a long time ago. What was yours, again?
Come on, you're a mathematical/engineering kinda guy. :p :cool:

wsuwrhr
11-04-2006, 04:01 PM
I threw mine out there a long time ago. What was yours, again?
Come on, you're a mathematical/engineering kinda guy. :p :cool:
Email sent sir

wsuwrhr
11-04-2006, 04:02 PM
I threw mine out there a long time ago. What was yours, again?
Come on, you're a mathematical/engineering kinda guy. :p :cool:
My answer was...#4 buddy. After ten posts down of the airplane thread I was bored.
RE guy, you got an answer for me yet? haha.
I want you to tell me that we are in need to sell our house ASAP so we can get into the D house. That is the right answer. haha
Dinner is going to be on us bud.
Brian

HavasuSelect
11-04-2006, 04:10 PM
I was waiting for this pole to pop up.

ratso
11-04-2006, 04:15 PM
I still say NO until it is proven before my own eyes... so until then, like God and evolution, it is strictly hypothetical... :rolleyes:

phebus
11-04-2006, 04:18 PM
I don't give a flying f*ck :messedup:

racecar.hotshoe
11-04-2006, 04:20 PM
I still say NO until it is proven before my own eyes... so until then, like God and evolution, it is strictly hypothetical... :rolleyes:
I said it would not fly an im sticking to my story.

AirtimeLavey
11-04-2006, 04:42 PM
My answer was...#4 buddy. After ten posts down of the airplane thread I was bored.
RE guy, you got an answer for me yet? haha.
I want you to tell me that we are in need to sell our house ASAP so we can get into the D house. That is the right answer. haha
Dinner is going to be on us bud.
Brian
Wish I had something, but not, yet. Think positive.... :rollside:

LUVNLIFE
11-04-2006, 04:49 PM
Check it out. The plane must have air flow over the wings to produce lift. When the plane takes of from a standing start it pushes itself along the ground to reach a speed with enough airflow over the wings to give it lift. If it is sitting on a treadmill that travels the opposite way, this leaves the plane sitting still. It possibly may have a little forward motion, but not enough to create lift.

Moneypitt
11-04-2006, 04:57 PM
Check it out. The plane must have air flow over the wings to produce lift. When the plane takes of from a standing start it pushes itself along the ground to reach a speed with enough airflow over the wings to give it lift. If it is sitting on a treadmill that travels the opposite way, this leaves the plane sitting still. It possibly may have a little forward motion, but not enough to create lift.
Only if the brakes are on, or the wheels removed, etc etc etc....#4 for sure.......If the plane didn't appear there out of "magic" then it must've ROLLED there. If it didn't roll there what was used to put the conveyer under it...Will it fly? IF it is otherwise able to fly, it will. If it is unable to fly then this whole exercise is useless, come to think of it, it's useless anyway you look at it..........MP

LUVNLIFE
11-04-2006, 05:07 PM
If the brakes are on it wouldn't move, the treadmill wouldn't move, and there would be no speed to make airflow over the wings to provide lift. And yes what use do we have for a plane that doesn't fly :p :rollside:

mickeyfinn
11-04-2006, 05:11 PM
The plane will fly, I can't believe people are still debating it. ***boat stupid.

LUVNLIFE
11-04-2006, 05:15 PM
The plane will fly, I can't believe people are still debating it. ***boat stupid.
Yes it COULD fly, but not trying to take off from a treadmill spinning in the opposite way. :p We could always sit here and argue how the plane got on a tredmill to begin with. :rollside:

DSW
11-04-2006, 05:31 PM
Okay I think we should recruit one of the "ballerz" from the baller thread to lend us a plane for a small experiment :crossx:
Hey that is what insurance is for right??? :hammerhea

deltaAce
11-04-2006, 05:36 PM
Yes it will fly, if theres enough airspeed under the conveyor to prevent belt friction. :rollside:

jimslade
11-04-2006, 05:44 PM
Whats the airspeed?

ratso
11-04-2006, 05:46 PM
Whats the airspeed?
I thought zero...

hallettman
11-04-2006, 05:49 PM
if a plane were on a tread mill all it would be doing is spinning the wheels no lift would be created under the wings

Moneypitt
11-04-2006, 06:31 PM
if a plane were on a tread mill all it would be doing is spinning the wheels no lift would be created under the wings
PLANES DON'T USE WHEELS FOR FORWARD MOTION....You're right, the wheels would spin as it went forward to take off, and it would take off.....MP

ratso
11-04-2006, 06:32 PM
PLANES DON'T USE WHEELS FOR FORWARD MOTION....You're right, the wheels would spin as it went forward to take off, and it would take off.....MP
It's starting to make sense to me now. :idea:

Hal
11-04-2006, 06:37 PM
if a plane were on a tread mill all it would be doing is spinning the wheels no lift would be created under the wings
There you go, all the tread mill does is spin the wheels which has nothing to do with propelling the plane forward. With freewheeling wheels you could run the tread mill up to 500 mph and the plane won't move even with the engines off. Now crank up those jet engines and they will produce all the thrust needed to push that plane right down the tread mill and take off. It wouldn't matter if the plane was on the tread mill or the runway it will take off in the same distance either way.Think about it...the wheels are only there to hold the plane off the ground. The plane is driven by thrust not the wheels.
Now if you had some kind of magical thrust removing tread mill then you got me, the plane will not move in that case.

IMPATIENT 1
11-04-2006, 06:38 PM
PLANES DON'T USE WHEELS FOR FORWARD MOTION....You're right, the wheels would spin as it went forward to take off, and it would take off.....MP
your rite but how big a treadmill are we talking about here, lol :)

Moneypitt
11-04-2006, 06:41 PM
your rite but how big a treadmill are we talking about here, lol :)
How about a big round one? Say about the size of EARTH......Doesn't matter............MP

mickeyfinn
11-04-2006, 06:58 PM
How about a big round one? Say about the size of EARTH......Doesn't matter............MP
DING DING DING! :rollside:

3 daytona`s
11-04-2006, 08:16 PM
Check it out. The plane must have air flow over the wings to produce lift. When the plane takes of from a standing start it pushes itself along the ground to reach a speed with enough airflow over the wings to give it lift. If it is sitting on a treadmill that travels the opposite way, this leaves the plane sitting still. It possibly may have a little forward motion, but not enough to create lift.
Right Answer :)

LUVNLIFE
11-04-2006, 08:17 PM
Right Answer :)
Thank you :rollside:

LUVNLIFE
11-04-2006, 08:22 PM
PLANES DON'T USE WHEELS FOR FORWARD MOTION....You're right, the wheels would spin as it went forward to take off, and it would take off.....MP
Not if the teadmill was spinning in the opposite direction, at the same speed, as said in the original post. It would leave the plane standing still. :p

LUVNLIFE
11-04-2006, 08:25 PM
There you go, all the tread mill does is spin the wheels which has nothing to do with propelling the plane forward. With freewheeling wheels you could run the tread mill up to 500 mph and the plane won't move even with the engines off. Now crank up those jet engines and they will produce all the thrust needed to push that plane right down the tread mill and take off. It wouldn't matter if the plane was on the tread mill or the runway it will take off in the same distance either way.Think about it...the wheels are only there to hold the plane off the ground. The plane is driven by thrust not the wheels.
Now if you had some kind of magical thrust removing tread mill then you got me, the plane will not move in that case.
But the plane must start from a standing possition, tread of the tires on the treadmill and push itself down the mill running in the opposite direction. No traction no go.

LUVNLIFE
11-04-2006, 08:28 PM
How about a big round one? Say about the size of EARTH......Doesn't matter............MP
Does the Earth spin as fast as a jet airplane flies? :)

3 daytona`s
11-04-2006, 08:29 PM
Not if the teadmill was spinning in the opposite direction, at the same speed, as said in the original post. It would leave the plane standing still. :p
THE ORIGINAL POST PLEASE===READ, then I don`t understand the controversy.People continue to enter this changing the situation and circumstances.Please read original post then scratch head and go to SUNK THE BOAT and help solve that mystery :rolleyes:

LUVNLIFE
11-04-2006, 08:33 PM
THE ORIGINAL POST PLEASE===READ, then I don`t understand the controversy.People continue to enter this changing the situation and circumstances.Please read original post then scratch head and go to SUNK THE BOAT and help solve that mystery :rolleyes:
I think you and I agree. :rollside: The treadmill is running in the opposite direction and the plane will not move. Some people are changing the givens in the original question. :rollside:

3 daytona`s
11-04-2006, 08:44 PM
I think you and I agree. :rollside: The treadmill is running in the opposite direction and the plane will not move. Some people are changing the givens in the original question. :rollside:
Hey,grew up in the Midwest,by the man who invented th modern Hot Air burner and balloon he is the father of hot air balloons as it is know today.I received my training and license thru him.Some years back we brought several Helium sport balloons out to Long Beach for the Gordon Bennet Gas Balloon Race.It was during this 2 week period I had the opportunity to meet every aviation expert in the business,as they were there.I`m trying to get ahold of Dick or Burt Rutan,if you know anything about aviaition you know of them.They have forgot more about flying than most will ever know,and truthfully make NASA look stupid.I pray I can get in touch with one of them and present them this question.I will post a public apology if wrong on this but don`t feel so.

Moneypitt
11-04-2006, 08:59 PM
But the plane must start from a standing possition, tread of the tires on the treadmill and push itself down the mill running in the opposite direction. No traction no go.
The plane doesn't need traction. IT IS NOT PROPELLED BY THE TIRES, the tires are free to spin as the plane moves forward by THRUST from either the jet engine or the propellers. The fact that there is a treadmill spining under the tires means NOTHING. Replace the treadmill with ice, no traction, ZERO, the plane will still move forward from the THRUST of it's power, the tires can slide along, or they can turn, the tires are only holding the plane up and have nothing to do with forward motion. If the treadmill was moving at 5 times the planes speed, it means NOTHING as the wheels would just SPIN along under the plane as it MOVED forward. Some here are obsessed with the wheels, and the treadmill canceling the forward motion, it will not cancel the forward motion, it will only spin the tires faster. Tires that WILL NOT STOP THE PLANES FORWARD MOTION unless you apply the brakes. The tires are independent to the planes motion, just FREEWHEELING along. Would the treadmill move the plane forward if it was going the same way?????? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! Because the tires are FREE SPINNING under the plane, regardless of which direction the treadmill is turning them, the jet/prop is still the planes one and only means of ANY MOTION at all...........Any trick reading of the question, like the plane has no wheels, or the plane is sitting there somehow attached to the ground is out of the scope of the intent of the question.......The MFer WILL FLY...........

Never Too Old
11-04-2006, 09:30 PM
As MP said, it will fly.
The question itself says that the conveyor will match the plane's SPEED. The question is saying that the plane is moving...

3 daytona`s
11-04-2006, 09:45 PM
As MP said, it will fly.
The question itself says that the conveyor will match the plane's SPEED. The question is saying that the plane is moving...
WROND!!

3 daytona`s
11-04-2006, 09:46 PM
WROND!!
Anyway= Wrong

Moneypitt
11-04-2006, 09:48 PM
WROND!!
WROND???
You know there was a thread about a boating "test" prior to being allowed to drive a boat. I'm starting to feel like Maybe that is a good idea..........MP

3 daytona`s
11-04-2006, 09:56 PM
WROND???
You know there was a thread about a boating "test" prior to being allowed to drive a boat. I'm starting to feel like Maybe that is a good idea..........MP
I made the correction right after F U I have to ask now am I uninvited to be a GRUNT on Thanksgiving? :idea:

Moneypitt
11-04-2006, 10:01 PM
I made the correction right after F U I have to ask now am I uninvited to be a GRUNT on Thanksgiving? :idea:
Of course not, we'll just stay away from any conveyer belts near the boat ramp.........

3 daytona`s
11-04-2006, 10:04 PM
Of course not, we'll just stay away from any conveyer belts near the boat ramp.........
That`s a dreaded sight when sitting back admiring your unintelligent post and then insult to injury------CAN`T SPELL Thanks man will be in contact, but must say it hurt :(

Never Too Old
11-04-2006, 10:11 PM
Here's the original post.
A plane is standing on a runway that can move (like a giant conveyor
belt). This conveyor has a control system that tracks the plane's
speed and tunes the speed of the conveyor to be exactly the same (but
in the opposite direction) instantly.
Will the plane be able to take off?
"...tracks the plane's speed..." It states right there that the plane has speed. Plane can't have speed if it isn't moving.
"...tunes the speed of the conveyor to be exactly the same..." Again, the plane has to be moving to have a speed for the conveyor to match.
Still wrond?

mickeyfinn
11-05-2006, 05:55 AM
A plane is standing on a runway that can move (like a giant conveyor
belt). This conveyor has a control system that tracks the plane's
speed and tunes the speed of the conveyor to be exactly the same (but
in the opposite direction) instantly.
Will the plane be able to take off?
First:
Tracking speed. This is a measurement of rate of change is location. If you are walking on a treadmill it does not tell you your speed. It tells you your equivilent speed. Lets assume that speed is being measured by GPS. The plane speeds up to some speed (you pick how fast). The conveyor starts, going the opposite direction at the same speed. You will not see a change in the speed of the airplane, you will see the rpm's of the wheels double which is totally meaningless to the question. The plane flies normally.
second:
The question states the treadmill goes the opposite direction at exactly the same speed. What you end up with is two independent things travelling in opposite directions. If you think about what you are saying the plane has to take off normally. If speed is a measurement of change in location then the plane has to be moving from point a to point b in order for the conveyor to be running at all. If the conveyor matching speed means the plane is not moving then the conveyor would have to stop. The conveyor and the plane are totally unrelated to each other exept the effect that the speed of the conveyor has on the rpms of the wheels. If you are in a car and do a burn out, the speedometer indicates a speed much faster than the vehicle is actually travelling. I say again. The plane will take off normally.

MikeF
11-05-2006, 06:03 AM
The plane doesn't need traction. IT IS NOT PROPELLED BY THE TIRES, the tires are free to spin as the plane moves forward by THRUST from either the jet engine or the propellers. The fact that there is a treadmill spining under the tires means NOTHING. Replace the treadmill with ice, no traction, ZERO, the plane will still move forward from the THRUST of it's power, the tires can slide along, or they can turn, the tires are only holding the plane up and have nothing to do with forward motion. If the treadmill was moving at 5 times the planes speed, it means NOTHING as the wheels would just SPIN along under the plane as it MOVED forward. Some here are obsessed with the wheels, and the treadmill canceling the forward motion, it will not cancel the forward motion, it will only spin the tires faster. Tires that WILL NOT STOP THE PLANES FORWARD MOTION unless you apply the brakes. The tires are independent to the planes motion, just FREEWHEELING along. Would the treadmill move the plane forward if it was going the same way?????? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! Because the tires are FREE SPINNING under the plane, regardless of which direction the treadmill is turning them, the jet/prop is still the planes one and only means of ANY MOTION at all...........Any trick reading of the question, like the plane has no wheels, or the plane is sitting there somehow attached to the ground is out of the scope of the intent of the question.......The MFer WILL FLY...........
I have to admit.......you make a very good argument to the question. :boxed:
For A V-drive guy to say a jet is very powerful is a hard thing to do. ;) :)

MikeF
11-05-2006, 06:13 AM
I can see how the friction of turning the wheels the opposite way is not great enough to slow the plane enough to cause the plane not to move forward......because the jet is powerful and there is no conveyor in the world that can rotate fast/quick enough w/850,000 pounds of rolling plane on top of it. That would be realworld.
Soooooooooo....Eventually, with enough groundspeed/airspeed......She'll fly. :crossx:

LUVNLIFE
11-05-2006, 09:16 AM
If the plane is standing on the runway and thrust begins to move the plane forward then the treadmill moves in the opposite direction negating forward motion. Have you ever walked backwards on an escalator? When you run on a treadmill for exercise, you match the speed of it and you do not run off the edge. I realize thatwheels have nothing to do with the plane flying but uses them to roll down the runway with thrust from the engine. Now here think of walking backwards on an escalator or a moving sidewalk. The plane needs airflow over the wings by gaining speed down the runway till it has lift. :rolleyes:

LUVNLIFE
11-05-2006, 09:20 AM
A plane is standing on a runway that can move (like a giant conveyor
belt). This conveyor has a control system that tracks the plane's
speed and tunes the speed of the conveyor to be exactly the same (but
in the opposite direction) instantly.
Will the plane be able to take off?
First:
Tracking speed. This is a measurement of rate of change is location. If you are walking on a treadmill it does not tell you your speed. It tells you your equivilent speed. Lets assume that speed is being measured by GPS. The plane speeds up to some speed (you pick how fast). The conveyor starts, going the opposite direction at the same speed. You will not see a change in the speed of the airplane, you will see the rpm's of the wheels double which is totally meaningless to the question. The plane flies normally.
second:
The question states the treadmill goes the opposite direction at exactly the same speed. What you end up with is two independent things travelling in opposite directions. If you think about what you are saying the plane has to take off normally. If speed is a measurement of change in location then the plane has to be moving from point a to point b in order for the conveyor to be running at all. If the conveyor matching speed means the plane is not moving then the conveyor would have to stop. The conveyor and the plane are totally unrelated to each other exept the effect that the speed of the conveyor has on the rpms of the wheels. If you are in a car and do a burn out, the speedometer indicates a speed much faster than the vehicle is actually travelling. I say again. The plane will take off normally.
Don't read so much into the original question. You rewrite it and rethought it to where it's two paragraphs long :p :rollside: Just go to the mall and walk backwards on an escalator, at the same speed but in the opposite direction and see how much forward motion you get. You can further investigate the theory by flapping your arms and see if you can fly :rollside: :rollside:

Moneypitt
11-05-2006, 09:53 AM
If the plane is standing on the runway and thrust begins to move the plane forward then the treadmill moves in the opposite direction negating forward motion. Have you ever walked backwards on an escalator? When you run on a treadmill for exercise, you match the speed of it and you do not run off the edge. I realize thatwheels have nothing to do with the plane flying but uses them to roll down the runway with thrust from the engine. Now here think of walking backwards on an escalator or a moving sidewalk. The plane needs airflow over the wings by gaining speed down the runway till it has lift. :rolleyes:
How does the conveyer "negate" forward motion? By turning the WHEELS? Screw the wheels, they add or subtract NOTHING to forward motion because they TURN. Are you people just messing around? or do you really think what you're typing? The MFer WILL proceed down the runway and take off just as though the treadmill wasn't there, it is called THRUST. As I mentioned before, would the treadmill move the plane forward if it was running the same way? Hell NO............If you were wearing roller skates on an escalator you could just Fn stand there, and NOT MOVE.......OK, lets try this: Airport conveyer, "people mover", you are wearing skates. you could stand there and not move, (although the people that weren't wearing skates would run into you), or you could actually propel yourself AGAINST the mover and go the OTHER way, (again, the people without skates would be at risk), or you could turn around and stand there and still not MOVE, or skate with the mover and your speed would be the same as when you skated against the mover.......The ONE AND ONLY DIFFERENCE would be wheel speed...................I think you guys are just F'n with the people here that have a grip on reality..........Remember, "engineers" drive TRAINS....MP

wsuwrhr
11-05-2006, 11:01 AM
I thought this was covered in another thread title, "Sunk the boat"
Wasn't this supposed to be a Poll?
Brian

wsuwrhr
11-05-2006, 11:03 AM
one answer, MP, wheels turn.
I can't believe this thread turned into what it did.
Conveyers, sheesh, now if cars could fly, that would be another story.
Brian
How does the conveyer "negate" forward motion? By turning the WHEELS? Screw the wheels, they add or subtract NOTHING to forward motion because they TURN. Are you people just messing around? or do you really think what you're typing? The MFer WILL proceed down the runway and take off just as though the treadmill wasn't there, it is called THRUST. As I mentioned before, would the treadmill move the plane forward if it was running the same way? Hell NO............If you were wearing roller skates on an escalator you could just Fn stand there, and NOT MOVE.......OK, lets try this: Airport conveyer, "people mover", you are wearing skates. you could stand there and not move, (although the people that weren't wearing skates would run into you), or you could actually propel yourself AGAINST the mover and go the OTHER way, (again, the people without skates would be at risk), or you could turn around and stand there and still not MOVE, or skate with the mover and your speed would be the same as when you skated against the mover.......The ONE AND ONLY DIFFERENCE would be wheel speed...................I think you guys are just F'n with the people here that have a grip on reality..........Remember, "engineers" drive TRAINS....MP

LUVNLIFE
11-05-2006, 11:07 AM
It won't take off. End of story. :rolleyes: :rollside: :rollside:

mickeyfinn
11-05-2006, 11:09 AM
It won't take off. End of story. :rolleyes: :rollside: :rollside:
I hope by now you are only trolling

LUVNLIFE
11-05-2006, 11:12 AM
I hope by now you are only trolling
They only told the smarter people because we knew the slower ones couldn't handle it :D :D

LUVNLIFE
11-05-2006, 11:15 AM
It's all in theory anyway. Everyone knows there is not a treadmill made that large :rolleyes: :p :rollside:

deltaAce
11-05-2006, 11:45 AM
Good work mickeyfinn & Moneypitt,
lots of patience shown & great examples given toward this exercise. I'd guess that anyone saying they don't get it by now, are just having fun. Now can anyone explain black holes in space or the space-time continuum according to Eucidean space perception as it relates to the fourth demension? :cool:

LUVNLIFE
11-05-2006, 12:01 PM
One thing everyone missed is, no one said it was a JET airplane. :p :p :rollside: :rollside:

Moneypitt
11-05-2006, 12:04 PM
One thing everyone missed is, no one said it was a JET airplane. :p :p :rollside: :rollside:
So? Thrust is thrust, regardless of how it is generated..........MP

LUVNLIFE
11-05-2006, 12:05 PM
Maybe it's a glider :p :rollside: