SGettman Motor Thread...

[Riverkid]

Let's see if I can get these posted up for ya...
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/524/2880MVC-017F.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/524/2880file000.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/524/2880file006.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/524/2880file009.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/524/2880file010.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/524/2880MVC-014F.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/524/2880MVC-007F.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/524/2880MVC-013F.jpg
Holy silicone Batman!
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/524/2880MVC-015F.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/524/2880MVC-004F.jpg

[Riverkid]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/524/2880MVC-005F.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/524/2880MVC-016F.jpg
Have at it, Sean! :)

[Rexone]

Wow someone must have got a deal on silicone. :squiggle:

[Riverkid]

Those are those rubber bass bait things??? :)

[wsuwrhr]

Looks like a ton "o" hurt
Brian

[SGettmann]

Looks like a ton "o" hurt
Brian
Excellent! Thanks RiverKid for taking the time to get these photos up. This is my motor out of my Schiada that is sitting down at Boostpower. As some may know, I didn't get all the water out of the block and the Idaho winter cracked a sleeve. It was actually a blessing, because it forced me to do a tear down and find out for sure what I had (A pile of crap). I had been talking to Alexi at Boostpower and heard some great things about his shop from various hot boaters, so over Christmas break, I loaded up the motor and brought her down to SoCal (Thanks to my Mom and Dad who visited over Christmas break - I sent them back to Cali with the motor). I originally thought that I only needed a block, but as Alexi got in there, things drastrically got worse, or better, depending how you look at it. Check out the oil pick up - over 60% covered in silicon. The original engine builder, chose to use silicone instead of gaskets for some reason :rollside: In addition, check out the fly wheel, instead of being balanced properly, it was drilled. The MSD ignition is an auto version, that's been locked out, so I need a new one of those as well. Also, if looking in the oil pan, there is ground metal all through the bottom from bearing residue - since the motor was not properly balanced. The good news: if I ran another season without finding this out, I would have lost everything most likely. So, I still have my turbos, heads are savable - though Alexi noted that my heads are designed for a high RPM motor, not a turbo, so I'll most likely get a new set of heads. Were going through the process of selecting a short block to start up, and do the rebuild.
When buying a boat, I would recommend to always tear the motor apart before using her or even finalizing the deal. I talked to the engine builder before I bought her, asked questions, was told 'only the best' was in there. It was a NWSRA boat, so I made the assumption that if the boat went through a few seasons, the engine had to be strong. After talking with Alexi, this was not the case, since there was a stock crank - no billet crank, and other stuff wasn't quite right. It's a learning lesson, and it will be set up appropriately. Even better, it will be even great HP that kicks in much sooner. Not that I need more HP, but its nice to have.
If going with an engine builder for a set up to last, get your references down. Based on the info that Boostpower is giving me, they are shooting straight and not BS'ing me. I plan on getting a setup from them that should last for a while, as long as I don't do anything stupid - including leaving any water in the block. I learned that I need to blow out my superchiller before winter, which I had no idea about. I thought that it all drained via gravity.
Now that's an article idea for ***boat - winterizing your boat for sub artic conditions.
Let me know if you have any questions. I'm happy to answer them except for who the original engine builder was. I'm not into spreading negative stuff. Just if you're getting your motor built up by a professional builder, get some references. At this time, Boostpower is definately delivering on their words and knowledge.

[SGettmann]

Those are those rubber bass bait things??? :)
I'm guessing my sea strainers didn't work so well when I flew by the steel head fisherman lined up on the Snake River outside of Lewiston.:)

[GofastRacer]

Damn that sucks, sorry to hear that!..
When buying a boat, I would recommend to always tear the motor apart before using her or even finalizing the deal. I talked to the engine builder before I bought her, asked questions, was told 'only the best' was in there. It was a NWSRA boat, so I made the assumption that if the boat went through a few seasons, the engine had to be strong. After talking with Alexi, this was not the case, since there was a stock crank - no billet crank, and other stuff wasn't quite right. It's a learning lesson, and it will be set up appropriately. Even better, it will be even great HP that kicks in much sooner. Not that I need more HP, but its nice to have.
Learned my lesson the same way, only took one time!. :mad: Since then if I buy a boat, they can keep their motor I'll build my own!..

[Riverkid]

Now that's an article idea for ***boat - winterizing your boat for sub artic conditions.
Absolutely no need. Just send her down here to sunny SoCA when the seasons winds down. I'll put her in the garage, right next to mine. She'll stay nice and cozy all winter long... :)
Soon enough...
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2880SGettmannsMotor.jpg

[Sangerboy]

Since then if I buy a boat, they can keep their motor I'll build my own!..
Caveat Emptor when buying any "performance" engine. I'm with you Art. If you're interested in going real fast, spend a little extra money, buy a proven hull that is set up well and then build your own engine( or use a shop that you have a personal rapport with). It's amazing what some people's definition of "all the best parts" is :rolleyes: .

[GofastRacer]

It's amazing what some people's definition of "all the best parts" is :rolleyes: .
Man you got that right!.. :)

[EZE II]

Sorry to hear about your motor thats a bummer. I believe I know who the engine builder was. I also had a twin turbo motor built by the same guy, and also had the same problems you had. My lasted 35 hours before it went down. Good luck to you an your new motor.

[SGettmann]

Sorry to hear about your motor thats a bummer. I believe I know who the engine builder was. I also had a twin turbo motor built by the same guy, and also had the same problems you had. My lasted 35 hours before it went down. Good luck to you an your new motor.
EZE II - sorry to hear about your situation. I don't have much to go on since I bought the boat used and don't think that the builder would stand behind the work. Plus, the motor still ran. I was lucky in that the block cracked with the cold water (I know this sounds like I'm nuts). For your situation, what was the outcome? Did you fill out your 'customer feedback' form. Were things done right, or did you go to another builder who did things right and is willing to stand behind their work?
This is a big learning lesson for me. At some point, I want to take a naturally carburated motor and start building one up on my own - as a learner motor. With the high end performance motors, I'm currently way over my head with my lack of knowledge. I'm trying to learn as much as possible, in which Alexi has been good about explaining things and giving me all the analysis reports.

[CircleJerk]

Boy, that's tough. Hey, we just had a RRII movie party here and you are only an hour or so from here. I also do my motor work after drag motor experiences. You could have inspected your oil filters for bad stuff in the oil which can ruin your day before boating.....

[Klass Klown]

Look's like a 40-50 thousand dollar pile of junk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rollside:

[SGettmann]

Look's like a 40-50 thousand dollar pile of junk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rollside:
KK- I never noted that this was a 40-50K motor. If it's done right for the 1200 HP plus motors, then for it to be done right, this would be the cost -retail. I'm sure that the sponsored racers get the inside good guy cost, but I'm not in this league - just a recreationalist. There's allot of time and machining put into building up a motor that will last. I don't have the experience at building up race motors to last, so I need to rely on the guys that have the name and reputation behind them to build something that lasts. You sound like some of my friends who ask why I don't go down to Pep Boys or Schucks and buy a crate motor.
Anyway, what are you running? Once you start getting up in the 700 Hp plus motors, price goes way up. But then again, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. I haven't seen Gentry 512 turbo motors sitting on the shelf the few times that I've stepped into Walmart.

[SGettmann]

Boy, that's tough. Hey, we just had a RRII movie party here and you are only an hour or so from here. I also do my motor work after drag motor experiences. You could have inspected your oil filters for bad stuff in the oil which can ruin your day before boating.....
Hi Circle Jerk - Excellent. I thought the River Rat viewing was only in Southern Cal. I would have been stoked to see that. Definately keep me in the loop if there's another viewing, I'm in Spokane quiet a bit. The clubs are a little bit more eventful in Spokane, especailly Trick Shots with that mechanical bull. Get crap faced, then go ride a bull for shetz and giggles. Moscow has some venues, but when you're not a college student, it's time to get into a different environment. I've learned being in the early thirties and dating college undergrads is not exactly in my best interest. There's allot of similarities between my life and 'Old School' - and no, I am not Frank the Tank.
Where are you running? I've been fortunate running at Cour D Alene. I'm constantly reminded about the 55 mph speed limit, but I haven't been lit up there. Let's definately get together this summer or before. Having other hot boaters in the region is completely cool and a dream. I live in the land of Alumaweld Steel Head fishing boats and luxery Yatchs on Cour D Alene. There's a few guys with Fountains and Eliminator Cats, but those guys are all out of my range. 21' and smaller gets my boat of choice. (Hard enough finding inside storage for a 21', let alone anything larger.

[Klass Klown]

KK- I never noted that this was a 40-50K motor. If it's done right for the 1200 HP plus motors, then for it to be done right, this would be the cost -retail. I'm sure that the sponsored racers get the inside good guy cost, but I'm not in this league - just a recreationalist. There's allot of time and machining put into building up a motor that will last. I don't have the experience at building up race motors to last, so I need to rely on the guys that have the name and reputation behind them to build something that lasts. You sound like some of my friends who ask why I don't go down to Pep Boys or Schucks and buy a crate motor.
Anyway, what are you running? Once you start getting up in the 700 Hp plus motors, price goes way up. But then again, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. I haven't seen Gentry 512 turbo motors sitting on the shelf the few times that I've stepped into Walmart.
I do not need to post my resume to you, beleive me I know what it takes to build a hard running motor, but speaking of crate motors gm sells one for around 12,000 that puts out over 700 H.P so let's do the math you could buy 4 of these and still be under 50K. And B.T.W I have run ubgj, Me,PE,Te as well as PCE. :boxed:

[SGettmann]

I do not need to post my resume to you, beleive me I know what it takes to build a hard running motor, but speaking of crate motors gm sells one for around 12,000 that puts out over 700 H.P so let's do the math you could buy 4 of these and still be under 50K. And B.T.W I have run ubgj, Me,PE,Te as well as PCE. :boxed:
KK - you're point is well taken and these are questions that I will ask. With the acronyms, since I'm in learning mode, can you let me know what ubgj, Me, PE, TE as well as PCE stand for. Thanks.
Also, with GM crate motors, have they been machined? - Line board, and everything else that they do. I have allot to learn on this, but I've been told that crate motor tolerances aren't all that great for high performance motors to last. Also, have all internal components been balanced? This was my problem, the owner before me/engine builder, did not have everything balanced - as a result, the bearing residue builds up at the bottom of the pan. I haven't even received the quote yet on what it will take to put a new short block prepped for my turbo system. I'm expecting over $10K, but I need to keep an open mind until Alexi gets back to me, since there is allot of homework that he has to do. This isn't an easy quote, since much of my stuff swaps over.
The good news, is that I can sleeve the block, have it cleaned up, and use the heads and other savable components to build up a new naturally aspirated motor for my dad's 20' Schiada. The best thing about this is that I get to work with my dad in building up an engine myself, which will be educational.
KK - I'm not trying to spar with you on this and your engine experience. It's good to question what I think is right and I will ask questions to my engine builder. I prefer to spend the money and do things right the first time, but if there's a different way to go about getting an enjoyable boat and motor, then that's definately worth looking into. It's good to get some feedback from the East Coast contingency as well. I lived out in Northern Va and New Hampshire for 3 years apiece - Lake Winapasaki in NH has some very impressive Fountain V's floating around.

[Doin' Time]

ive read on the motor perhaps the kk is talking about..its a 572.klown is this the motor you speak of?ive read and seen the way they assemble them at gm on television,it does look like a nicely put together piece..... :)

[Klass Klown]

D.T yes the 572 is the motor in question, Now getting back to your short block give Scott Schaffirroff a call you can get a completely assembled 540 with all aftermarket parts for far less than 10k I would even phone reher Morrison in texas and ask for wes they can do it for less than 10 as well.. And these guy's are well known engine builders obviously!!!! :boxed:

[superdave013]

Hey KK, do you think one of those crate 572 deals could run flat out for a 60+ mile endurance race and live? And if so would it keep up with the guy who has the 1,100+ hp turbo deal?

[Riverkid]

Hey KK, do you think one of those crate 572 deals could run flat out for a 60+ mile endurance race and live? And if so would it keep up with the guy who has the 1,100+ hp turbo deal?
Mind Reader! :)

[Klass Klown]

Hey KK, do you think one of those crate 572 deals could run flat out for a 60+ mile endurance race and live? And if so would it keep up with the guy who has the 1,100+ hp turbo deal?
S.D do you honestly think it is impossible???? Rudy Ramos way back in the day built a marathon boat using all steel as rigging metal-- as a matter of fact the seat was off an old tractor which had spring's in it-- Anyway everyone laughed about how heavy and slow that rayson craft was Well guess what he won!! I was a youngster but never the less nothing is impossible in racing!!!!!!!!!!! And I never compared a 572 crate motor to a turbo'd motor I just dont agree with the cost to build one as I have built many!!!!! $40-50k I dont think so.................. :rollside: :boxed:

[Klass Klown]

Maybe you could install a block heater for your winter storage, might be an inexpensive fix ?
Question for the Klown, with your vast engine experience, would you agree or disagree that building an endurance racing engine is different than building a quarter mile racing engine ??
Well with your obvious arrogance, need I answer this question for you?? In other word's if you gotta ask ---well you know..... :idea:

[Klass Klown]

Klown, point I was trying to make is, there is a big difference, you seem to come from the 1/4 mile world, only needs to last 10 sec a pass, where as the ski racers who need thier engines to last 1hr or more at w.o.t. and under varying water conditions. I don't think a crate 572, either one that gm makes was designed to be an endurance race motor, more of a 1/4 miler, given the specs.
p.s. I love to see you pit your best built turbo motor against a Carson Brummett built turbo motor in the ski race world................
My freind Read the post, I never quuestioned the reliability of a turbo'd motor nor power.. I was replying to mr. Gettmann's comment in regard's to pep boy's Crate motors, simply stating G.M sell's one for 12 k.....And who say's I am refering to 1/4 mile motor's, Listen where I live here in Virginia this is Nascar country and there are several builder's (of whom I am colleagues with) of Nascar motors, Busch etc. So dont question my knowledge of an endurance motor.. You all act as if Boat motor's are something special, Try 3-5 hrs at 9k over the course of 250 -500 miles. I will say the G.M crate motor at 4500-5600 r.p.m would last several races no problem!!!!!!!!!!!1 :boxed:

[Klass Klown]

Klown, I thought all the NASCAR Teams were in N.C., at least thats where I have been to all the big teams shops, RCR, RYR, Woods Bros, Hendricks, Roush, DEI, Waltrip Racing, MB2, Petty, I don't know of too many in your state? :p :p Just bustin yer chops !!!!!!!! Just because you have V.I.R. don't get all excited now...................
Who said anything about teams I am talking shop's They are spread out all over my freind. Not to mention sprint's or outlaw's..Say what you will it is irrelevant just keep on payin$$$$$$$$$$$$ For your motor's ...... :rollside:

[superdave013]

Try 3-5 hrs at 9k over the course of 250 -500 miles.
that's just what I need. I need it for a 300 mile race coming up in October. I would like to stay in the 510" normally aspratied (sp) class. Last time on the 48th mile I got hot oil puked on me and was done. :(
I could prolly gear it so it would run in the 7,500 range flat out and don't expect us to lift off the throttle. So how much power for how much $$ is the question. Oh, it has to run on gas, no alky. Any type of race fuel is fine to me.

[Doin' Time]

Klown, point I was trying to make is, there is a big difference, you seem to come from the 1/4 mile world, only needs to last 10 sec a pass, where as the ski racers who need thier engines to last 1hr or more at w.o.t. and under varying water conditions. I don't think a crate 572, either one that gm makes was designed to be an endurance race motor, more of a 1/4 miler, given the specs.
p.s. I love to see you pit your best built turbo motor against a Carson Brummett built turbo motor in the ski race world................
i think duttweiller is one of the best...but thats my opinion....and i dont thnik there is much of a difference in building a endurance motor or 1/4 mile motor...they should both be built right the first time...they both should last!. :rollside: ......im curious,what rpm do the ski racer boats turn,while racing?

[SGettmann]

i think duttweiller is one of the best...but thats my opinion....and i dont thnik there is much of a difference in building a endurance motor or 1/4 mile motor...they should both be built right the first time...they both should last!. :rollside: ......im curious,what rpm do the ski racer boats turn,while racing?
I'm not super experienced at this, but my dad's naturally aspirated 482 BBC used to sit at 6-7K rpm, which was pretty high for a BBC. Turbo motors turn less, guessing 5K RPM from my own experience. Depends on water conditions and good the skier is.

[Rexone]

i think duttweiller is one of the best...but thats my opinion....and i dont thnik there is much of a difference in building a endurance motor or 1/4 mile motor...they should both be built right the first time...they both should last!. :rollside: ......im curious,what rpm do the ski racer boats turn,while racing?
Usually the gearing is set up so they don't need to run much over 6K at WOT. In ski racing obviously much of the running is less than WOT. But it's still in major boost for long periods with the faster skiers. I think 40-50K is probably slightly excessive as an estimate. But some of the turbo and efi systems are quite expensive and those are a large part of the engine "package" cost. Not to mention all of the trick rigging that is attached to the motor to put the whole package together.
Basic motor though (meaning no efi or rigging enhancements) at 40-50K would be high IMO.

[haulina29]

RexOne can you put that in laymens terms :)

[Schiada76]

I just got a phone call from Duttweilers.
My buddy is thrashing a small block to 500HP on mild boost from a mini blower (he's in charge of R&D at Magnuson) he was just going to get some smaller pullies and call me back. :D :D
From what little I know, Kenny is one of the best nation wide. Some amazing numbers come off his dyno (REAL #'s).

[Rexone]

RexOne can you put that in laymens terms :)
yeah, 50K is too damn much for just a moto. :)
Once upon a time you could a bought a whole race boat for that. :wink:

[Riverkid]

And have a ton left over for a freshen up and lots of race gas...
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2964100_1510_Medium_.JPG

[Doin' Time]

I just got a phone call from Duttweilers.
My buddy is thrashing a small block to 500HP on mild boost from a mini blower (he's in charge of R&D at Magnuson) he was just going to get some smaller pullies and call me back. :D :D
From what little I know, Kenny is one of the best nation wide. Some amazing numbers come off his dyno (REAL #'s).
DUTTWEILLER!!!...MY BUDDY GOT A 400 SMALL BLOCK..STOCK 509 BLOCK ,fast efi,WITH TWIN TURBO'S AND HE RUNS 7.00 211MPH IN THE QUARTER AND NEVER PUTS A WRENCH ON IT!!!....well sometimes,lol....but if it blows im sure it going to blow up good!!!

[Doin' Time]

i should mention it is in a late model firebird... :cool:

[ColeTR2]

The MSD ignition is an auto version, that's been locked out, so I need a new one of those as well.
Most super charged engines should be locked out just my .02 I would ask around about this.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2964100_1510_Medium_.JPG
Very nice except for the egg beater in the back ground

[Riverkid]

Most super charged engines should be locked out just my .02 I would ask around about this.
Very nice except for the egg beater in the back ground
I was wondering what comments would come of that... :) BTW, this is Boat124's Hallet Vector motor (it's for sale for a real reasonable price...)
Gotta have something to ski behind with when the BBC's getting freshened up... :)

[DaveA]

Very nice except for the egg beater in the back ground
That? Oh, that's just the trolling motor setup...
:rollside:
.

[SGettmann]

yeah, 50K is too damn much for just a moto. :)
Once upon a time you could a bought a whole race boat for that. :wink:
Rex et al - I just went off the website on various builders for list Turbo motors. Looks like I need to do more homework on pricing.
Waiting for estimate on motor work. Seeing Riverkid's photos, I just want my boat working and summer time to be here. I'm ready for the snow to melt.

[Klass Klown]

HP, so let me get this straight,since you spend so much time researching the cost to build one of these one of a kind marine motors,lets take it one step further, itemize the cost; A) parts B)machining C) assembly labor, and tell me which one in your opinion would be the largest of the three? almost forgot,include the last name of the engine builder as this will vary! just remember a merlin block is a merlin block!! a billet crank is a billet crank!!! carillo rods are carillo rods!!

[Doin' Time]

HP, so let me get this straight,since you spend so much time researching the cost to build one of these one of a kind marine motors,lets take it one step further, itemize the cost; A) parts B)machining C) assembly labor, and tell me which one in your opinion would be the largest of the three? almost forgot,include the last name of the engine builder as this will vary! just remember a merlin block is a merlin block!! a billet crank is a billet crank!!! carillo rods are carillo rods!!
kk...get real.... most people go where the big name is......i havent heard one person give duttweiller respect on here........hey to some people its all about good anodized fittings and funky little brackets...kk,that all adds up to 60k.....60k aint nothing to some..and to virginians it might be more....so go to the top sprint car motor dude!!

[superdave013]

HP, so let me get this straight,since you spend so much time researching the cost to build one of these one of a kind marine motors,lets take it one step further, itemize the cost; A) parts B)machining C) assembly labor, and tell me which one in your opinion would be the largest of the three? almost forgot,include the last name of the engine builder as this will vary! just remember a merlin block is a merlin block!! a billet crank is a billet crank!!! carillo rods are carillo rods!!
I would say for him the off the shelf water jacketed turbo system (and the labor of a proud engine builder are the biggies).
I could not see spending the coin so I fabbed up my own turbo deal. Still have over 3k in it with the used CMI headers, new turbos and wastegates and home brew intercooler set up (with a J540 core).
For me off the top of my head,
Merlin tall deck, Valsco billet 4.5" crank, Carrillo rods (gun drilled to oil the wrist pins), JE pistons, Dart 360 heads (I had those already) were some of the larger expenses.

[superdave013]

your rods and crank were alot less then mine. But I didn't use a #3 cnc block so the end is about the same.
I think you are way low on the turbo system price if you are basing it on a complete water jacketed top shelf unit.

[Schiada76]

kk...get real.... most people go where the big name is......i havent heard one person give duttweiller respect on here........hey to some people its all about good anodized fittings and funky little brackets...kk,that all adds up to 60k.....60k aint nothing to some..and to virginians it might be more....so go to the top sprint car motor dude!!
"I just got a phone call from Duttweilers.
My buddy is thrashing a small block to 500HP on mild boost from a mini blower (he's in charge of R&D at Magnuson) he was just going to get some smaller pullies and call me back.
From what little I know, Kenny is one of the best nation wide. Some amazing numbers come off his dyno (REAL #'s). "
DUTTWEILLER!!!...MY BUDDY GOT A 400 SMALL BLOCK..STOCK 509 BLOCK ,fast efi,WITH TWIN TURBO'S AND HE RUNS 7.00 211MPH IN THE QUARTER AND NEVER PUTS A WRENCH ON IT!!!....well sometimes,lol....but if it blows im sure it going to blow up good!!!
You're right there's not one nod to Duttweiler, there's two. :D

[Doin' Time]

"I just got a phone call from Duttweilers.
My buddy is thrashing a small block to 500HP on mild boost from a mini blower (he's in charge of R&D at Magnuson) he was just going to get some smaller pullies and call me back.
From what little I know, Kenny is one of the best nation wide. Some amazing numbers come off his dyno (REAL #'s). "
DUTTWEILLER!!!...MY BUDDY GOT A 400 SMALL BLOCK..STOCK 509 BLOCK ,fast efi,WITH TWIN TURBO'S AND HE RUNS 7.00 211MPH IN THE QUARTER AND NEVER PUTS A WRENCH ON IT!!!....well sometimes,lol....but if it blows im sure it going to blow up good!!!
You're right there's not one nod to Duttweiler, there's two. :D
You are right!.... :)

[schiada96]

Most super charged engines should be locked out just my .02 I would ask around about this.
Very nice except for the egg beater in the back ground
why would you need a clamp on trolling motor in addition to a twin turbo bbc

[Schiada76]

Fuel economy. :D

[Rattle Can Lou]

A friend of mine just bought a "tour legal" 358 Nascar engine. These are 9-1 compression motors and run in the lower divisions of Nascar. This motor runs a 390 Holley carb and puts our about 560 hp. The motor comes complete from pan to carb including the 5 stage oil pump and all of the plumbing. Cost was 38,000 dollars. Scary considering what you could build horsepower wise with 38,000 dollars. This is what these motors cost whether you are buying on the east coast or the west coast. 37 lb cranks and 10,000.00 heads...It's crazy.

[dmontzsta]

A friend of mine just bought a "tour legal" 358 Nascar engine. These are 9-1 compression motors and run in the lower divisions of Nascar. This motor runs a 390 Holley carb and puts our about 560 hp. The motor comes complete from pan to carb including the 5 stage oil pump and all of the plumbing. Cost was 38,000 dollars. Scary considering what you could build horsepower wise with 38,000 dollars. This is what these motors cost whether you are buying on the east coast or the west coast. 37 lb cranks and 10,000.00 heads...It's crazy.
Its tricky, you could have an engine builder build a 500 inch motor for that price. BUT, it would not be as cool as saying "I have a 358 Nascar motor". :)

[Klass Klown]

Klown, here is what I come up with for your info.......lets say were gonna build a 572 bbc, aspirated, just as a baseline:
Merlin III CNC'd Block=3500.00
Callies Crank=1800.00
Manley Rods=700.00
Aluminum Heads/Inconel Exhaust/Stainless Intake/Springs=4000.00
Pistons=700.00
Intake=350.00
1050 carb=800.00
Oil Pan=800.00
Cam/Lifters=450.00
Gaskets=250.00
MSD System=650.00
Exhaust system=1000.00-3000.00
misc engine stuff=300.00
Machining/ Balancing=1000.00-2000.00
Final ASSY/ Dyno Time=1000.00-2500.00
Now add a Blower/Turbo with Intercooler=6000.00
add Dry sump Oil system=2500.00
add EFI for Turbo=2k-4k
add plumbing for Turbo or Blower=500.00-1000.00
Engine builders time and expertise=priceless !!!!
Now you are catching on :boxed: We still have appx 20,000 to play with and we evn get an exhaust system. Where is the other 10k-20k going?? My point, these guys are charging 50 k for this motor even 40k that is ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rollside: :rollside: :rolleyes:

[MKEELINE]

If the market will bear it, then it's not ridiculous. There is a cost associated with having someone build and assemble a motor. It seems to me that there's no shortage of people lining up to buy these high dollar motors. It seems that some guys experience is more expensive than others.
If someone doesn't have the ability or the time, then they better have the money.

[Klass Klown]

If the market will bear it, then it's not ridiculous. There is a cost associated with having someone build and assemble a motor. It seems to me that there's no shortage of people lining up to buy these high dollar motors. It seems that some guys experience is more expensive than others.
If someone doesn't have the ability or the time, then they better have the money.
If the market will bear it, good point, goes to show capatalism at it's best! In all seriousness I hope some people get the point , in summarizing this, One could build a turbo race motor for far less than 40k. And A blown alky motor for even less as well!!!! Mr. Gettman with the parts you have, (assuming they are salvageable) your motor should cost NO MORE THAN 10K to be thouroghly gone through. And I completely disagree with your builder's assesment of your cylinder heads, For your application your's are fine... ADIOS----- JET BOATS RULE :idea: :rollside:

[wsuwrhr]

clown,
Just some friendly advise, stay out of professional motorsports.
50 large isn't all that much when you start talking about the tech that goes into professional racing engines.
Whether or not it is reasonable or outrageous to you or even someone else, changes nothing except the fact of, if you want to play, you gotta pay.
I can tell you that kind of money is spent on watercraft and ATV engine DEVELOPMENT by OEMs. I am not talking a big money types like Rousch/RCR/Nascar teams, TFD/TAD Drag racing teams, INDY engine manufactures, or even the big three, hell even the Japanese car makers for that matter.
I am talking about stupid motorcycles and jetskis. Development of Single/twin/triple cylinder, 2/4 stroke engines, cylinder/head porting, expansion chamber/exhausts, the amounts are staggering, but the money is there, and it is very real. Sometimes the custumer even SUPPLIES the base
engine components and may only get a few engines for the dollar figure.
50 large is cheap when it crosses the finish line out in front. IMHO.
Brian

[SGettmann]

If the market will bear it, good point, goes to show capatalism at it's best! In all seriousness I hope some people get the point , in summarizing this, One could build a turbo race motor for far less than 40k. And A blown alky motor for even less as well!!!! Mr. Gettman with the parts you have, (assuming they are salvageable) your motor should cost NO MORE THAN 10K to be thouroghly gone through. And I completely disagree with your builder's assesment of your cylinder heads, For your application your's are fine... ADIOS----- JET BOATS RULE :idea: :rollside:
Hi KK. Thanks again for you input and having me question pricing. I am looking into options to try to get to the sub 10K price point. I know that I can spend well over 20K and have all the tricked out stuff, but I'm financially not in that playing field at this time. In addition, I have to honestly look at what I want to use my boat for. I'm not speed ski racing at the upper end. I do want to go out and be pulled around 4K to 4500 on my racing ski. Based on these requirments, I may not need all the trick Linati Crank and tricked out billet stuff that costs the big dollars. I'm considering my options, but definately keeping in mind that under 10K to rebuild my motor would be a good and realistic goal to have.
I have a quote, but I'm in a stage of reality in deciding what I'm doing, and putting boundaries on what I am comfortable spending. I definately want to have money to take my girlfriend to dinner. This is more important than a tricked out motor to me. So, looking at options will continue.
Thank you all for the added input. The forums definately kicks ass and is a great way to get information from around the country. In Moscow Idaho - there's not to many performance engine buffs to bounce ideas off of.

[Klass Klown]

[QUOTE=wsuwrhr]clown,
Just some friendly advise, stay out of professional motorsports.
50 large isn't all that much when you start talking about the tech that goes into professional racing engines.
Ya know if someone told me that years ago I would be 900k large now! Let me give you some freindly ADVICE stay out of the sandbar Topless is killin ya!!
And 50k is is a hell of alot of money, when 98% of a well built motor are the $$$$ spent on good quality part's.. Maybe you should stay out of motor sport's you clearly cannot comprehend!! Now get back to the sandbar and bow down!!!! :rollside:

[MKEELINE]

Klass Klown,
So, if i brought you all the quality parts, what would you charge or consider a fair price to assemble an engine? Let's say a twin turbo motor, all plumbed and ready to go. Just courious.

[Doin' Time]

let the people that build and sell performance parts do the research....not the individual buyer.,,anybody that pays the builder to do research is a plain "tard.........50k for a motor..ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..i got a bridge to sell over some swamp land.