what type of resin to glass stringers

[holorinhal]

I am getting ready to stick in the stringers in My Kona.
My question for the glass gurus is this.
What type of resin should I use,laminating resin(vinylester) ,or polyester resin.
I have used the vinylester but when cured it is a greenish tint.I am planning an leaving the wood on the stringers and floor to show as natural wood,so i dont really like the greenish tint.I will be laying down a layer of mat on the entire inside bottom Or floor to finnish and sand to flow coat.
Should I bond the stringers to the hull with a strip of mat and resin or should I use some kind of epoxy? Any help or advise would be appreciated...Thank's...Hal

['75 Miller]

I wrapped my stringers with 2 layers of cloth and epoxy. I don't know about vinylester but epoxy is much stronger than polyester resin. Won't yellow with age as fast either. The stuff I used is made by a company called Resin Research.
Matt

[YeLLowBoaT]

epoxy has very little flex, ploy flexs more. you can epoxy over ploy but you can't ploy over expoy.

['75 Miller]

Why can't poly be applied over epoxy. I was under the impression that poly would have no trouble forming a mechanical bond with epoxy as long as the epoxy is well roughed-up.

[YeLLowBoaT]

my understanding that it will make a mechanical bond, but it can't make a chemical bond.= not very strong.

['75 Miller]

After any resin cures and is no longer tacky or sticky the only kind of bond that can be formed is mechanical. Least that's my understanding. I am by no means a guru. When I did the inside of my boat I used epoxy, then polyester gelcoat, then duratec polyester topcoat. It hasn't seen the water yet.

[DUCKY]

"Once you go epoxy, you can never go back. Epoxy leaves behind a chemical when it cures that is reddish in color called amine. Commonly referred to as "Amine Blush", amine screws with the cure of almost anything put on top of it later, except 2k (catalyzed) paints, and more epoxy."
Quoted from myself, yesterday....
Anyways, first off, I hope you are not trying to install the stringers with the boat on the trailer.....
And yes, you need to bond the stringers to the hull and I prefer epoxy for that purpose, because it's adhesion quailties kick the shit out of vitrually anything else. I like to make my own adhesive using West System epoxy resin and cab-o-sil, but you need to be very neat and tidy especially if you are not using epoxy for the lamination later. If you don't want to do that, then bed the stringers down with 4-6 oz of nice wet mat under them (resin of your choice). I use the West System for small repairs where I feel that there may be a high chance of failure, but I have yet to use it on a large lamination job, mostly due to the cost. All of the vinylesters that I have used are a transparent pink or orange in color. The only green resin I have seen is the cheap poly that my supplier sells to the pool and hot tub builders.

[OverKill]

I think this is a thread for Nucking Futs

[FOURQ]

I think this is a thread for Nucking Futs
i dont understand why you would say that all his repairs were done with vinylester. not both .
i have to agree with scott (ducky) pick one or the other not both.

['75 Miller]

Ducky I realize that this is your profession & I respect that. You've undoubtedly got thousands of hours more experience than me. But I think you're mistaken about today's epoxy resins. The amine you refer to is a modified cycloaliphatic amine curing agent. Like styrene curing agent, I guess, in that it must be sanded off before the epoxy can be bonded to. But it can be bonded to. Once my boat gets some use I'll gladly post up pics of the mess I've created if I'm wrong.
Matt

[Nucking futs]

I think this is a thread for Nucking Futs
Why? I don't know $hiat about the curing compounds and the mix match of epoxy. I just use the good ol' fashioned stuff. This newer technoligy stuff im not down with.
Follow the advise of the pros not the backyard hacks like myself. It will save you time and money down the road.....

[THE BOSTON SIDEWINDER]

WEST SYSTEM STUFF IS KILLER! TAKE A LOOK AT THEIR WEBSITE www.westsystem.com
I DON'T THINK YOU WILL BE DISAPPOINTED...BILL.

[holorinhal]

Hey Ducky ,the boat is not on the trailer,but it is on a dolly.Is there some other way that I should set up the hull before I install the stringers?Dont want to screw up the bottom.I will be blue printing the bottom but from what I have checked it doesnt have too much hook.
As far as the vinylester goes I redid My deck with it Ibought it from fiberglass shop ,here in vegas,who told me that it was the best type of resin.It was expensive too.49 bucks a gallon! It was of a greenish tint, cured and uncured.
It was a sun of a bitch to sand becouse it cured tacky and stayed tacky for a long time.Its not the resin to use if You have to do any finnishing,from what I under stand is that it cures tacky so there is no sanding neccesary for multiple lamminate layers.If I undersude what I read about it ,that it lacks the wax that poly uses th cure tack free.
My concern is that I will be doing sanding and finnishing and dont want to go through the same thing I went through on the deck.
Is vinylester beter than pollyester(worth th extra expense) and do they make vinylester in a finnishing resin(sandable) like polly is made?....Hal

[DUCKY]

In my opinion, the boat should be supported by three points on a nice level flool before a stringer install. Some kind of support under each of the rear corners, and one jack-stand up under the keel. Make sure that your rear corners are the same distance from the ground. Anyway, to turn laminating resin into finsh resin, all you do is add surfacing agent. (about 5%) Vinyl-ester resins have several qualites that are desireable over poly, #1 of which is that they are more flexible when cured, which resists delamination. I can get you the pink vinylester that I use for around $150 for 5 gallons, but you have to come here to get it (it's haz mat) and the surfacing agent for your final coats for around $45 (1 gallon). I think for your application, that vinylester will be the best choice, and it will probably take close to 10 gallons depending on how wasteful you are. Just make sure that you spend the time to support the boat and fit your stringers to the hull nicely (1/8" gap max). You should also spend the time to build a jig that will keep your stringers the correct distance apart, and perfectly vertical while you are bonding them in. If your new stringers are 1.5" thick, then cut your bonding strips about 1-1.25" wide, mask off the surrounding areas then wet out your strips in the hull. I usually buy 2oz mat and use 2 layers (4oz total) then set your new stringers in place, already attached to the jig. Then set some weight on them, and leave it alone for the rest of the day. The next day, you can remove the weight, your jig and masking, do any final prep and start laminating over the top.

[OverKill]

Nucking Futs thats what they need the good OL fashioned stuff.

[3 daytona`s]

In my opinion, the boat should be supported by three points on a nice level flool before a stringer install. Some kind of support under each of the rear corners, and one jack-stand up under the keel. Make sure that your rear corners are the same distance from the ground. Anyway, to turn laminating resin into finsh resin, all you do is add surfacing agent. (about 5%) Vinyl-ester resins have several qualites that are desireable over poly, #1 of which is that they are more flexible when cured, which resists delamination. I can get you the pink vinylester that I use for around $150 for 5 gallons, but you have to come here to get it (it's haz mat) and the surfacing agent for your final coats for around $45 (1 gallon). I think for your application, that vinylester will be the best choice, and it will probably take close to 10 gallons depending on how wasteful you are. Just make sure that you spend the time to support the boat and fit your stringers to the hull nicely (1/8" gap max). You should also spend the time to build a jig that will keep your stringers the correct distance apart, and perfectly vertical while you are bonding them in. If your new stringers are 1.5" thick, then cut your bonding strips about 1-1.25" wide, mask off the surrounding areas then wet out your strips in the hull. I usually buy 2oz mat and use 2 layers (4oz total) then set your new stringers in place, already attached to the jig. Then set some weight on them, and leave it alone for the rest of the day. The next day, you can remove the weight, your jig and masking, do any final prep and start laminating over the top.
Hey was with Ray this afternoon and said brought the boat down yesterday. He was extremely impressed with you and your operation. I hope to meet you at the races at the Bluewater. Good job Man

[holorinhal]

Hey Ducky, Thank's ,that is exactly the kind of explaination I was looking for!
So i get it now ,Vinylester is a better resin than poly,and it can be made into either lam resin ,or finish by adding the surfacing agent.Is the surfacing agent the same as the wax additive that I read about?
I will take Your advice about the hull set up before install.
If You can sell me the resin I would appreciate it.I dont mind comming down to get it.I was seriously contemplating a trip down there any way,to get the stringers. The home depot in Havasu is the closest place that I can get Kiln dried Douglas fir in a 2x6.None of the lumber yards in Vegas cary it ,becouse it is not allowed in the building codes here. I also cheked the HD in Bullhead City and they do not carry it. Any way,Ducky thanks For the Info and I will shoot You a Pm when I do make the trip....Thanks ...Hal

[DUCKY]

Hey Ducky, Thank's ,that is exactly the kind of explaination I was looking for!
So i get it now ,Vinylester is a better resin than poly,and it can be made into either lam resin ,or finish by adding the surfacing agent.Is the surfacing agent the same as the wax additive that I read about?
I will take Your advice about the hull set up before install.
If You can sell me the resin I would appreciate it.I dont mind comming down to get it.I was seriously contemplating a trip down there any way,to get the stringers. The home depot in Havasu is the closest place that I can get Kiln dried Douglas fir in a 2x6.None of the lumber yards in Vegas cary it ,becouse it is not allowed in the building codes here. I also cheked the HD in Bullhead City and they do not carry it. Any way,Ducky thanks For the Info and I will shoot You a Pm when I do make the trip....Thanks ...Hal
You're welcome!
And yes, the surfacing agent is the same as "wax additive". It is basically paraffin wax suspended in styrene monomer. as far as my orders go, If I place an order before noon on Wednesday, I will get it on Thursday morning. Just let me know when you want it. It would be better to call me instead of a PM, just in case I am not on here for a few days.
Thanks,
Scott

[DUCKY]

Hey was with Ray this afternoon and said brought the boat down yesterday. He was extremely impressed with you and your operation. I hope to meet you at the races at the Bluewater. Good job Man
I'd like to meet you too, but don't know if I'll make Thanksgiving. We'll see how Firebird goes next weekend first......