Top Democrat: Bring back the draft

[RitcheyRch]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/19/rangel.draft.ap/index.html
Americans would have to sign up for a new military draft after turning 18 if the incoming chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee has his way.
New York Democratic Rep. Charles Rangel said Sunday he sees his idea as a way to deter politicians from launching wars. He believes a draft would bolster U.S. troop levels that are currently insufficient to cover potential future action in Iran, North Korea and Iraq.
"There's no question in my mind that this president and this administration would never have invaded Iraq, especially on the flimsy evidence that was presented to the Congress, if indeed we had a draft, and members of Congress and the administration thought that their kids from their communities would be placed in harm's way," Rangel said.
Rangel, a veteran of the Korean War who has unsuccessfully sponsored legislation on conscription in the past, said he will propose a measure early next year.
In 2003, he proposed a draft covering people age 18 to 26. This year, he offered a plan to mandate military service for men and women between age 18 and 42. It went nowhere in the Republican-led Congress.
Democrats will control the House and Senate come January because of their victories in the November 7 mid-term election.
At a time when some lawmakers are urging the military to send more troops to Iraq, "I don't see how anyone can support the war and not support the draft," said Rangel.
He also proposed a draft in January 2003, before the U.S. invasion of Iraq.
Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican who is a colonel in the U.S. Air Force Standby Reserve, said he agreed that the U.S. does not have enough people in the military.
"I think we can do this with an all-voluntary service, all-voluntary Army, Air Force, Marine Corps and Navy. And if we can't, then we'll look for some other option," said Graham, who is assigned as a reserve judge to the Air Force Court of Criminal Appeals.
Rangel and Graham appeared on "Face the Nation" on CBS.
Polls show most Americans oppose a draft
Rangel, the next chairman of the House tax-writing committee, said he worried the military is strained by its overseas commitments.
"If we're going to challenge Iran and challenge North Korea and then, as some people have asked, to send more troops to Iraq, we can't do that without a draft," Rangel said.
He said having a draft would not necessarily mean everyone called to duty would have to serve. Instead, "young people (would) commit themselves to a couple of years in service to this great republic, whether it's our seaports, our airports, in schools, in hospitals," with a promise of educational benefits at the end of service.
Graham said he believes the all-voluntary military "represents the country pretty well in terms of ethnic makeup, economic background."
Repeated polls have shown that about seven in 10 Americans oppose reinstatement of the draft and officials say they do not expect to restart conscription.
Outgoing Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld told Congress in June 2005 that "there isn't a chance in the world that the draft will be brought back."
Yet the prospect of the long global fight against terrorism and the continuing U.S. commitment to stabilizing Iraq have kept the idea in the public's mind.
The military drafted conscripts during the Civil War, both world wars and between 1948 and 1973.
The Selective Service System, an agency independent of the Defense Department, keeps an updated registry of men age 18-25 -- now about 16 million -- from which to supply untrained draftees that would supplement the professional all-volunteer armed forces.

[3 daytona`s]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/19/rangel.draft.ap/index.html
Americans would have to sign up for a new military draft after turning 18 if the incoming chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee has his way.
New York Democratic Rep. Charles Rangel said Sunday he sees his idea as a way to deter politicians from launching wars. He believes a draft would bolster U.S. troop levels that are currently insufficient to cover potential future action in Iran, North Korea and Iraq.
"There's no question in my mind that this president and this administration would never have invaded Iraq, especially on the flimsy evidence that was presented to the Congress, if indeed we had a draft, and members of Congress and the administration thought that their kids from their communities would be placed in harm's way," Rangel said.
Rangel, a veteran of the Korean War who has unsuccessfully sponsored legislation on conscription in the past, said he will propose a measure early next year.
In 2003, he proposed a draft covering people age 18 to 26. This year, he offered a plan to mandate military service for men and women between age 18 and 42. It went nowhere in the Republican-led Congress.
Democrats will control the House and Senate come January because of their victories in the November 7 mid-term election.
At a time when some lawmakers are urging the military to send more troops to Iraq, "I don't see how anyone can support the war and not support the draft," said Rangel.
He also proposed a draft in January 2003, before the U.S. invasion of Iraq.
Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican who is a colonel in the U.S. Air Force Standby Reserve, said he agreed that the U.S. does not have enough people in the military.
"I think we can do this with an all-voluntary service, all-voluntary Army, Air Force, Marine Corps and Navy. And if we can't, then we'll look for some other option," said Graham, who is assigned as a reserve judge to the Air Force Court of Criminal Appeals.
Rangel and Graham appeared on "Face the Nation" on CBS.
Polls show most Americans oppose a draft
Rangel, the next chairman of the House tax-writing committee, said he worried the military is strained by its overseas commitments.
"If we're going to challenge Iran and challenge North Korea and then, as some people have asked, to send more troops to Iraq, we can't do that without a draft," Rangel said.
He said having a draft would not necessarily mean everyone called to duty would have to serve. Instead, "young people (would) commit themselves to a couple of years in service to this great republic, whether it's our seaports, our airports, in schools, in hospitals," with a promise of educational benefits at the end of service.
Graham said he believes the all-voluntary military "represents the country pretty well in terms of ethnic makeup, economic background."
Repeated polls have shown that about seven in 10 Americans oppose reinstatement of the draft and officials say they do not expect to restart conscription.
Outgoing Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld told Congress in June 2005 that "there isn't a chance in the world that the draft will be brought back."
Yet the prospect of the long global fight against terrorism and the continuing U.S. commitment to stabilizing Iraq have kept the idea in the public's mind.
The military drafted conscripts during the Civil War, both world wars and between 1948 and 1973.
The Selective Service System, an agency independent of the Defense Department, keeps an updated registry of men age 18-25 -- now about 16 million -- from which to supply untrained draftees that would supplement the professional all-volunteer armed forces.
It will happen they can`t keep up with needs.

[YeLLowBoaT]

um....
males already have to sign up for the draft when they hit 18... its called selective service. Its federal law, I know that if you sign up you can never work for the federal gov or receive any money/loans from the federal gov.

['75 Miller]

The military itself doesn't want a draft. They're doing just fine with the men & women they have, individuals that want to serve. Unless there's a serious World War I don't see a draft happening.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

It will happen they can`t keep up with needs.
Only 10% of the reserves & National Guard system is being utilized. The other 90% are not.
Enlistment is still occuring, at least now the slack pu$$ies who would join for $$$ and cry that they "Only joined to go to college" are not joining, which is fine with me.
The 2 year activation of my guard unit was good for the unit, we have about 6 less slacks in my squadron of 44 now, and the rest can carry their load. I'll take THEM overseas again anytime.

[YeLLowBoaT]

Only 10% of the reserves & National Guard system is being utilized. The other 90% are not.
Enlistment is still occuring, at least now the slack pu$$ies who would join for $$$ and cry that they "Only joined to go to college" are not joining, which is fine with me.
The 2 year activation of my guard unit was good for the unit, we have about 6 less slacks in my squadron of 44 now, and the rest can carry their load. I'll take THEM overseas again anytime.
actaully some one just released a report about whos where.. 70% of the resevers have been to iraq, but only 40% of the regular armed forces. Some def agencey released the report... all the major news networks made it public.( so figure its half true)

[centerhill condor]

Charles Rangel; served with distinction in Korea. I think bringing back the draft would help these young folks better understand the world they're being given.
A little time shining boots, cleaning a weapon, and making their own bed would help anybody. It would certainly "tighten up" a generation that appears to have no clue about how to wear a pair of pants!
If this is the dems plan for America, I'm all for it!

['75 Miller]

Charles Rangel; served with distinction in Korea. I think bringing back the draft would help these young folks better understand the world they're being given.
A little time shining boots, cleaning a weapon, and making their own bed would help anybody. It would certainly "tighten up" a generation that appears to have no clue about how to wear a pair of pants!
If this is the dems plan for America, I'm all for it!
In another, more patriotic time I'd say I agree. But these days there's too many lefty pussies that wouldn't fight for ANYTHING, much less a country they don't even care about. Can you imagine the protests, draft riots, etc?
Anyway Rangel wants to bring back the draft for his own Demorat reasons. Class warfare mostly. He thinks that the only people who choose to serve are the poor because they lack other opportunity.

[eliminatedsprinter]

Anyway Rangel wants to bring back the draft for his own Demorat reasons. Class warfare mostly. He thinks that the only people who choose to serve are the poor because they lack other opportunity.
Indeed.
The irony of this is, he postures as a champion of the poor, then he says this crap, as if having our voluntary military as an option to escape poverty is a bad thing. I've seen him talk on this issue many times over the last couple of years. It's pure class warfare demagoguery.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Charles Rangel; served with distinction in Korea. I think bringing back the draft would help these young folks better understand the world they're being given.
A little time shining boots, cleaning a weapon, and making their own bed would help anybody. It would certainly "tighten up" a generation that appears to have no clue about how to wear a pair of pants!
If this is the dems plan for America, I'm all for it!
I see your logic in this cc, but i am looking at the other side of the coin. The volunteers want to de the jobs they have, want to do those jobs as well as they can (yes, there are exeptions here, but it is true by and large), and do their best efforts to do their duties.
Draftees are more burden than assistance. Just as an external fuel tank on an airplane uses half it's fuel just overcoming the additional drag of the tank itself (doubling the fuel carriage of a plane in external tanks doesn't even come close to doubling the flight range), draftees, who are forced into jobs they do not want to do, into situations they do not want to be in, who will not even attempt to be mediocre at them, let alone be exceptional, will just be an extra drag on those volunteers who are serving of their own sense of honor, duty, and conviction, and upon those (in the minority I believe) who would discover the millitary, after being drafted, to be the good guidance that you (and I) see it as.
Your glass is, I believe, half full, as mine usually is. Mine is half empty on this subject. I do not believe a draft is anywhere a good thing untill we literally need MILLIONS more troops, and we do not.

[centerhill condor]

[QUOTE=SmokinLowriderSS]
Draftees are more burden than assistance. \draftees, who are forced into jobs they do not want to do, into situations they do not want to be in, who will not even attempt to be mediocre at them,\\QUOTE]
yea, you are right...however, threat has a way of clearing the head. quickly, I might ad!

[SmokinLowriderSS]

By the way, the dreaded "Nancy P" is in full backpedal mode on this too, claiming Charlie didn't really mean, nor do they intend, to bring in the draft.
The same thing she's done this week over tax increases, impeachment hearings, a quick pullout from Iraq, etc.
I wonder if her shins are getting tired on this bicycle she's backpedaling on. :idea:

[Poster X]

I don't think he ever expects the bill to pass. He's trying to create dialogue in America about why the war wouldn't exist if we had one. Seems to be working if you ask me.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

[QUOTE=SmokinLowriderSS]
Draftees are more burden than assistance. \draftees, who are forced into jobs they do not want to do, into situations they do not want to be in, who will not even attempt to be mediocre at them,\\QUOTE]
yea, you are right...however, threat has a way of clearing the head. quickly, I might ad!
Clearing it, or removing it. Win-Win situation I suppose at the bottom line. :idea: :crossx:

[centerhill condor]

I don't think he ever expects the bill to pass. He's trying to create dialogue in America about why the war wouldn't exist if we had one. Seems to be working if you ask me.
so then the dems are engaging in pointless/mean spirited politics? before they're sworn in...meet the new boss...same as the old boss!

[QuickJet]

Politics as usual. It was brought up to congress before and shot down. I doubt the Dems want to commit political suicide and enact such an unpopular policy. That's the reason Nancy is downplaying Rangles rhetoric.

[Poster X]

Rangles just some guy. Just because he's a Democrat doesn't mean he thinks for all Democrats. We don't fight to the death defending every idiot that's in the party unlike another party I can think of. Some are good. Some are ok. Some are just complete idiots. Rangle being the latter.

['75 Miller]

Rangles just some guy. Just because he's a Democrat doesn't mean he thinks for all Democrats. We don't fight to the death defending every idiot that's in the party unlike another party I can think of. Some are good. Some are ok. Some are just complete idiots. Rangle being the latter.
Just some guy? He's chairman of the ways & means committee, no? He's in a leadership position.
'Course you won't fight to the death for him....you're a demorat.

[Poster X]

I'm not a Democrat. I'm just an "anyone but Bush" guy. But even if I were a tatooed, double-wide ownin', green toothed, dyed-in-the-wool country boy Democrat, I'd never support someone just because they were in the party. That would be stupid. You're not stupid are you?

[eliminatedsprinter]

Rangles just some guy. Just because he's a Democrat doesn't mean he thinks for all Democrats. We don't fight to the death defending every idiot that's in the party unlike another party I can think of. Some are good. Some are ok. Some are just complete idiots. Rangle being the latter.
Like you I'm not too fond of Congressman Rangle.
However, he's not just some guy. He is a long serving congressman with tons of power. After july he will be the chairman of the House of Ways and Means Committee. That position has big time power of the purse strings in our government. He is also a decorated combat Korean War Vet and he is very bright. I don't much like his politics, he is ethically challenged, and he often takes seemingly crazy positions, but he is crazy like a fox. He's been demagoging this issue for a while now. I'm not really all that sure why (even after hearing him speak on it several times) but I suspect it's, at least partly, just to make sure he keeps up with Al Sharpton in his civil rights posturing.

[Poster X]

Even if he's crazy as a loon (which he may well be) it would take an act of Congress and that.. he will not get. Even if it were seated entirely by Democrats.

[eliminatedsprinter]

Even if he's crazy as a loon (which he may well be) it would take an act of Congress and that.. he will not get. Even if it were seated entirely by Democrats.
Indeed.
When he last intrduced this idea in the form of legislation to the house, it only received 2 votes. He even voted agianst it himself (which pretty much proves he was just posturing). However, the fact that he got it through committee and brought before the full house, shows that he does have power. Which he will have more of after january.

[QuickJet]

Rangles just some guy. Just because he's a Democrat doesn't mean he thinks for all Democrats. We don't fight to the death defending every idiot that's in the party unlike another party I can think of. Some are good. Some are ok. Some are just complete idiots. Rangle being the latter.
The "other" party being the green party I assume. Those idiots would follow a leader off a cliff if he/she told them to. :rolleyes:

[eliminatedsprinter]

The "other" party being the green party I assume. Those idiots would follow a leader off a cliff if he/she told them to. :rolleyes:
You mean they would follow a lawyer off a cliff if he/she told them to, don't you? :wink:

[HighRoller]

You guys are totally missing Chuck's motivation...
He said having a draft would not necessarily mean everyone called to duty would have to serve. Instead, "young people (would) commit themselves to a couple of years in service to this great republic, whether it's our seaports, our airports, in schools, in hospitals," with a promise of educational benefits at the end of service.
It's another chapter in the "big giveaway" where Chuck tells people that serving in uniform as a school teacher will make them a hero and get them GI Bill money. And then he asks them to vote for him. Imagine getting a purple heart for a paper cut....

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Take 1 guess as to who will pay for the enourmous incre4ased usage of bennefits, and how it will be paid for. :220v:

[Old Texan]

Imagine getting a purple heart for a paper cut....
If this is true, Kerry will reactivate........