I want more speed!!!

[Dominator Scott]

Rather than ripping into the motor,is there anything more I can do to the jet drive that is a bolt on speed upgrade? To my knowledge the drive is stock except for the droop snoot and place diverter I have already added.
I don't want to pull the engine or drive so what can I do? Intake grate? Shoe?
Does a shoe have to be machined and the jet drive removed?

[IMPATIENT 1]

http://www.hi-techperformance.com/images/C_G_Shoe_Kit_293.jpg
this one bolts on, for a c or g pump.i used one on my 12je taylor sj and it helped alot!!best upgrade next the divertor!picked up an average of 6mph because it fed the pump so much better with the shoe.boat road nicer too.

[YeLLowBoaT]

You can tweak the jet pump.( this will be the cheapest and ez way to boost your speed) If you have a decent rebuild on the motor you can run a small shot of nitrous.( say liek 75 hp shot)

[Dominator Scott]

http://www.hi-techperformance.com/images/C_G_Shoe_Kit_293.jpg
this one bolts on, for a c or g pump.i used one on my 12je taylor sj and it helped alot!!best upgrade next the divertor!picked up an average of 6mph because it fed the pump so much better with the shoe.boat road nicer too.
How much is a set-up like that?

[sanger rat]

How much is a set-up like that?
Betcha could find a really good deal on a used one somewhere. :rollside:

[IMPATIENT 1]

225.00 and worth every penny!

[IMPATIENT 1]

Betcha could find a really good deal on a used one somewhere. :rollside:
lol buy a new one, you'll have to modify it alittle

[Placecraft Dragstar]

Do a little grinding on the inside of the pump and tweaking on the set up and you will be able to pick up some speed.

[acatitude]

you want more speed ... buy my howard

[Heatseeker]

Nitrous is a cheap speed mod if your engine is up to it, but you'll want more than 75 hp. I ran a 100 shot on a stock 454 and picked up all of 3-4 mph. It was more noticeable when it shut off than when it came on.
Anything above a 100 shot, there are numerous internal engine issues to consider, first being your pistons. Cast pistons don't much care for nitrous, so if you have cast pistons you need to consider that. Guys that build Nitrous specific engines use different piston to wall clearances, different ring gaps, etc.
If I were you, I'd start looking at the pump for some speed gains at this point.

[Dominator Scott]

Nitrous is a cheap speed mod if your engine is up to it, but you'll want more than 75 hp. I ran a 100 shot on a stock 454 and picked up all of 3-4 mph. It was more noticeable when it shut off than when it came on.
Anything above a 100 shot, there are numerous internal engine issues to consider, first being your pistons. Cast pistons don't much care for nitrous, so if you have cast pistons you need to consider that. Guys that build Nitrous specific engines use different piston to wall clearances, different ring gaps, etc.
If I were you, I'd start looking at the pump for some speed gains at this point.
I think I would like to stay at the pump for some bolt on goodies. That is why I asked about a shoe and ride plate change.
The one thing I wouldn't mind doing to the motor is a larger cam but I was told that it would require a valve spring change also in order to go with any semi-aggressive cam shaft in this thing. These Ford motors don't leave much room for engine mods without having to rip into the motor and changing other things do they?

[flat broke]

I think I would like to stay at the pump for some bolt on goodies. That is why I asked about a shoe and ride plate change.
The one thing I wouldn't mind doing to the motor is a larger cam but I was told that it would require a valve spring change also in order to go with any semi-aggressive cam shaft in this thing. These Ford motors don't leave much room for engine mods without having to rip into the motor and changing other things do they?
It has NOTHING to do with it being a Ford. Anytime you're just swaping parts out hoping for a good result, you're wasting your time and money. It would be no different if you tried to slap a .700" lift cam in a warmed over BBC. The parts need to work together, and there should be some forethought as to what you want to accomplish and how you're going to do it BEFORE you start building.
The fundamental flaw with your question is that you didn't ask what you could do to get to a specific speed. Asking, "how can I make the boat go faster without going into the motor?" warrants responses like, "run it with less fuel in the tanks and a lighter driver". It will make it faster, but was it enough "faster" to make you happy? How many people, myself included have wasted tons of money trying to go "faster"? It isn't until you nut up and say, "my boat goes Xmph at Yrpm, with Zhp and impeller cut, but I want to go (insert your speed goal here) mph" that you can determine what will be needed in terms of HP and hull/pump modifications; and then set out to accomplish your stated goal. Just trying to go "faster" equals a never ending chain of onesy twosey purchases and modifications that often never compliment each other. Figure out EXACTLY what you want out of the boat, and then ask the question.
I'm not trying to be a dick; I may come off like one, but I'm not trying ;) so don't get bent at my response. It's just that every year there are the guys that want to go "faster", and every year, they repeat the same mistakes as the guys from the year before.
Good luck with it,
Chris

[lucky]

Rather than ripping into the motor,is there anything more I can do to the jet drive that is a bolt on speed upgrade? To my knowledge the drive is stock except for the droop snoot and place diverter I have already added.
I don't want to pull the engine or drive so what can I do? Intake grate? Shoe?
Does a shoe have to be machined and the jet drive removed?
Move to Beumont ...... I heard its easy to pick up speed lmao

[Dominator Scott]

It has NOTHING to do with it being a Ford. Anytime you're just swaping parts out hoping for a good result, you're wasting your time and money. It would be no different if you tried to slap a .700" lift cam in a warmed over BBC. The parts need to work together, and there should be some forethought as to what you want to accomplish and how you're going to do it BEFORE you start building.
The fundamental flaw with your question is that you didn't ask what you could do to get to a specific speed. Asking, "how can I make the boat go faster without going into the motor?" warrants responses like, "run it with less fuel in the tanks and a lighter driver". It will make it faster, but was it enough "faster" to make you happy? How many people, myself included have wasted tons of money trying to go "faster"? It isn't until you nut up and say, "my boat goes Xmph at Yrpm, with Zhp and impeller cut, but I want to go (insert your speed goal here) mph" that you can determine what will be needed in terms of HP and hull/pump modifications; and then set out to accomplish your stated goal. Just trying to go "faster" equals a never ending chain of onesy twosey purchases and modifications that often never compliment each other. Figure out EXACTLY what you want out of the boat, and then ask the question.
I'm not trying to be a dick; I may come off like one, but I'm not trying ;) so don't get bent at my response. It's just that every year there are the guys that want to go "faster", and every year, they repeat the same mistakes as the guys from the year before.
Good luck with it,
Chris
The motor is a stock 460 with a Torker46 intake,Holley 800 carb and Hooker headers. Jet drive has a stock impellar to my knowledge with a place diverter and droop snoot that I have added. With just me in the boat the speedo will read between 65-66mph at best. I would like to see 75mph on the speedo and I would be thrilled,but anything over 70 would do the job. :rollside:
By the way that 65-66mph is at approximatley 4700RPM's.

[victorfb]

i dont really see a flaw in the question he asked as he also mentioned not wanting to tear into anything. basically wanting to know if there are any more "bolt on" goodies for the pump drive such as a diverter and such. most ANY boat has a gain by adding a diverter and it was mentioned that was allready done, but if it wasnt, it would be a good start to gain more speed. yes i totally agree with your opinion on how to set up a motor and pump with parts that match the way you want it to perform, but i think he is asking about the bolt on goodies. he, like many of us, may not know all the tricks that can be done without tearing into and changing internal items. adding a droop, or a ride plate, shoe, ect, may or may not be benificial to his application, but by asking here first before buying seems like a good idea as like you mentioned so many people have allready tried. by saying you need to match all your componants to your goal speed, rpm, HP/TQ is a decendant of years and years of trial and error which is now knowledge we gain from the people who in the past had to spend all the money and time. the only thing i would suggest to scott is to also mention his exact hull and pump and maybe there will be someone that has done all the trials and has good info for him.

[Dominator Scott]

i dont really see a flaw in the question he asked as he also mentioned not wanting to tear into anything. basically wanting to know if there are any more "bolt on" goodies for the pump drive such as a diverter and such. most ANY boat has a gain by adding a diverter and it was mentioned that was allready done, but if it wasnt, it would be a good start to gain more speed. yes i totally agree with your opinion on how to set up a motor and pump with parts that match the way you want it to perform, but i think he is asking about the bolt on goodies. he, like many of us, may not know all the tricks that can be done without tearing into and changing internal items. adding a droop, or a ride plate, shoe, ect, may or may not be benificial to his application, but by asking here first before buying seems like a good idea as like you mentioned so many people have allready tried. by saying you need to match all your componants to your goal speed, rpm, HP/TQ is a decendant of years and years of trial and error which is now knowledge we gain from the people who in the past had to spend all the money and time. the only thing i would suggest to scott is to also mention his exact hull and pump and maybe there will be someone that has done all the trials and has good info for him.
Good point. The boat is a 78 Sanger Super Jet with a 12JG pump which is also stock with a stock impellar to the best of my knowledge.
Here is a list of what has been modified.
Hooker headers
Holley 800 carb
Torker460 intake
Place Diverter
Aggressor Droop Snoot

[SmokenJT]

Nice looking Sanger. Flat Broke is right. You will be wasting money putting bolt on's unless you do the rest. With a stock 460, 65mph is fast. Be happy with what you have. The place diverter was your best investment. Adding any thing else is a wast unless you do it all. I know Ford 460 and Sangers super jet which is a heavy boat but very strong. Will take all the hp you want to put in it. I figure your stock 460 is about 350 to 375 hp. You would need about 500hp & a B- cut impeller to get to 75mph. You can't use nitrious because you have cast pistions. The 460 stock will run strong for many years as is. But to reach 75, you need to open your wallet. Make sure you have a 10 qt oil pan with the pick-up extention to the rear. Stock pick-up is in the front and you can run out of oil at high speed.
Enjoy what you have. Smoken JT.

[b's sanger]

Your best bet for the money is the longer ride plate for now.

[Sanger Jet]

And a good quality loader :cool:

[LakesOnly]

The one thing I wouldn't mind doing to the motor is a larger cam but I was told that it would require a valve spring change also in order to go with any semi-aggressive cam shaft in this thing. These Ford motors don't leave much room for engine mods without having to rip into the motor and changing other things do they?Few engines do. And performing a cam & spring change will not help much at all either, because of the rest of the engine combo.
To have a fast jet boat motor with the 460, you need to up it's compression and improve it's cylinder head power output capabilities. The heads on your boat can be modified to allow for power gains, but since they are large chamber heads and you don't wish to tear extensively into your engine, compression will remain at less than 8:1 and you'd be better off doing a head swap.
If you end up going into the motor, you're best bet you be to removed the D3VE heads and replace them with factory Ford ported D0VE heads, or something else superior. With the D0VE heads, compression will jump to 9.1:1, more air/fuel can be delivered via the portwork, and 1.8 roller rockers would enable you to get a little more lift at the valve (thereby tricking your engine into thinking it has a bigger cam). We've seen gains of 400 rpm with this changeout, or close to 100HP. And you then have all the hard parts for rebuilding an even nicer engine sometime in the distant future.
If the EdelBROCK Torker is just that and not a Torker II, remove it from your engine and tie it to the end of a line and use it for an anchor; you are leaving HP on the table there as well.
LO

[Dominator Scott]

Few engines do. And performing a cam & spring change will not help much at all either, because of the rest of the engine combo.
To have a fast jet boat motor with the 460, you need to up it's compression and improve it's cylinder head power output capabilities. The heads on your boat can be modified to allow for power gains, but since they are large chamber heads and you don't wish to tear extensively into your engine, compression will remain at less than 8:1 and you'd be better off doing a head swap.
If you end up going into the motor, you're best bet you be to removed the D3VE heads and replace them with factory Ford ported D0VE heads, or something else superior. With the D0VE heads, compression will jump to 9.1:1, more air/fuel can be delivered via the portwork, and 1.8 roller rockers would enable you to get a little more lift at the valve (thereby tricking your engine into thinking it has a bigger cam). We've seen gains of 400 rpm with this changeout, or close to 100HP. And you then have all the hard parts for rebuilding an even nicer engine sometime in the distant future.
If the EdelBROCK Torker is just that and not a Torker II, remove it from your engine and tie it to the end of a line and use it for an anchor; you are leaving HP on the table there as well.
LO
Yes it is a Torker460,and not the Torker2. I was amazed at how small the plenum opening is where the carb bolts on it. Talk about a bottle neck. :yuk:
I think I am going to upgrade to a Victor intake and go from there. When dad has decided he no longer really interested in boating he is passing the Sanger down to me and that is when I am putting the monster power in it and turning it into an 18ft beast!!!!!

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

It has NOTHING to do with it being a Ford. Anytime you're just swaping parts out hoping for a good result, you're wasting your time and money. It would be no different if you tried to slap a .700" lift cam in a warmed over BBC. The parts need to work together, and there should be some forethought as to what you want to accomplish and how you're going to do it BEFORE you start building.
The fundamental flaw with your question is that you didn't ask what you could do to get to a specific speed. Asking, "how can I make the boat go faster without going into the motor?" warrants responses like, "run it with less fuel in the tanks and a lighter driver". It will make it faster, but was it enough "faster" to make you happy? How many people, myself included have wasted tons of money trying to go "faster"? It isn't until you nut up and say, "my boat goes Xmph at Yrpm, with Zhp and impeller cut, but I want to go (insert your speed goal here) mph" that you can determine what will be needed in terms of HP and hull/pump modifications; and then set out to accomplish your stated goal. Just trying to go "faster" equals a never ending chain of onesy twosey purchases and modifications that often never compliment each other. Figure out EXACTLY what you want out of the boat, and then ask the question.
I'm not trying to be a dick; I may come off like one, but I'm not trying ;) so don't get bent at my response. It's just that every year there are the guys that want to go "faster", and every year, they repeat the same mistakes as the guys from the year before.
Good luck with it,
Chris
Sometimes chris may appear to be a dick but infact the man tells it like it is. Thats why I respect him alot. He only posts the truth and nothing less. Listen to this guy along with lakes only;)

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

I forgot to mention to get your wallet out:D

[atxwrangler]

Yes it is a Torker460,and not the Torker2. I was amazed at how small the plenum opening is where the carb bolts on it. Talk about a bottle neck. :yuk:
I think I am going to upgrade to a Victor intake and go from there. When dad has decided he no longer really interested in boating he is passing the Sanger down to me and that is when I am putting the monster power in it and turning it into an 18ft beast!!!!!
personaly,i think you would do well with the weiand stealth intake!

[IMPATIENT 1]

personaly,i think you would do well with the weiand stealth intake!
ditto, or a rpm edelbrock intake, either way is good on a heavy v-hull like you have. i installed an air gap rpm, 850dp holley, 545 lift cam, msd ignition, shoe/ride plate kit, droop on a buddy's sanger sj last season and it picked up 12mph for the effort. i've ran single planes and dual planes on my super jet taylor and the dual plane had better torque curve than the victor, i pulled the victor and put the rpm intake back on it, had more balls on the bottom.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

personaly,i think you would do well with the weiand stealth intake!
Weiand stealth is a killer intake!

[Squirtcha?]

Weiand stealth is a killer intake!
One of the BBF pages (can't remember which one just now) did an intake shootout on a 500hp 460. The Weiand won the shootout as the best all around intake for that particular motor.
The Victor was better at higher rpm (6000+ as I recall), but the Weiand had a much better mid-range and didn't miss the mark by much at higher rpm.
Since I was only able to turn 5300 anyway, I bought the Weiand and was very happy with it.

[SmokenJT]

If you are planning on pulling skiers, the Stealth is great, for top end, the victor 460, single plane is the best.
You do need to increase the compression. The stock pistions that you have need to be changed to at least fordged flat tops. The stock heads need a lot of port work or go to Alum heads. Remember what I said about opening your wallet. Check out www.460ford.com and you will find out everything there is to know about getting HP out of a 460. Keep in mind that most of these guys are dragstrip and truck puller guys with the exception of lakes only & Lem.
For the Sanger, you made the right move on getting the place diverter. The next thing that you need to do is set back the intake. Its about 6 inches up from the transom as it sits. The Sanger, even with the Place diverter rides to deep in the water. The less boat in the water, the faster you go. Then add a shoe & ride plate. Remember what I said, enjoy what you have if you are going 65 mph.
Smoken

[SmokenJT]

Lakes Only can give you the best bang for your buck with the Dove heads. The heads that you have make good boat anchors also. The stock pistons were designed for low emissions, not HP. If you go to TRW flat tops, which are a cheap fordged pistons, you can get more compression and still use pump gas. Have the rods & Crank balanced while you have it apart. A roller rocker set up and a good cam will get you the HP. Check out Flow Dynamics web site, (LakesOnly) and give him a call. He know's what he is talking about and can help you out on the set up and save bucks. For the pump, go to Jack at MPD if your in So Calif.
Smoken

[LakesOnly]

these guys are dragstrip and truck puller guys with the exception of Lakes Only & Lem.
SmokenSmoken,
FYI, Lem held down both ends of the Unblown Gas Jet World Record in 1991. But if you mean to say that we are the boaters on that Forum, then ooops, yes we are...but there are plenty of other marine guys in there as well.
LO

[LakesOnly]

Lakes Only can give you the best bang for your buck with the Dove heads. The heads that you have make good boat anchors also. The stock pistons were designed for low emissions, not HP. If you go to TRW flat tops, which are a cheap fordged pistons, you can get more compression and still use pump gas. Have the rods & Crank balanced while you have it apart. A roller rocker set up and a good cam will get you the HP. Check out Flow Dynamics web site, (LakesOnly) and give him a call. He know's what he is talking about and can help you out on the set up and save bucks. For the pump, go to Jack at MPD if your in So Calif.
SmokenSmoken,
FYI I run ported D3VE-A2A heads on my current jet boat motor and my motor has smoked most every naturally apspirated D0VE-headed 460 jet boat that I came across (don't recall losing to any of 'em). Contrary to what you posted, D3VE's are not "boat anchors" and can indeed make a lot of horsepower, you just need the correct overall engine package and the heads need the correct portwork and prep work. But DomScott doesn't want to tear that far into his engine, so in this case, yes, swapping to D0VE's would be the easiest way to up C/R, that's all.
And no, flat tops and D0VE heads are not a viable option for pump gas. At .030 overbore and square decked, C/R will boe over 11.25:1. (EDIT: If you meant D3VE's and flat tops, then yes, it is certainly pump gas friendly at just 9.2:1. -LO)
DS, I know you don't care to tear this far into your engine...I just wanted to clarify a few things in regards to building these motors...
LO

[SmokenJT]

Like I said, Lakes Only knows what he is talking about and can get you the best bang for your bucks. The stock heads will need a lot of port work, but took my old Sanger to 75 MPH. DominatorScott, you will need to do some engine & pump work to get to 75 MPH. And you still will have the problem with the hull riding to low in the water which takes away MPH. That is why I mention need the set back on the intake.
Smoken