Berkley Jet..run dry before damage

[tittyman]

How long can you safely run a berkley jet out of the water (dry) before you cause damage..and if damage occurs is it just the wear ring...

[blue wonder]

How long can you safely run a berkley jet out of the water (dry) before you cause damage..and if damage occurs is it just the wear ring...
it all depends how tight the clearences are...mine for example i cant run it dry at all
if you dont know just be safe and stick a garden hose up the nozzle end of the pump on full blast

[YeLLowBoaT]

Lots of factors here, but of the corse of the life of the jet pump lets call it less then 1 min.
its not just the wear ring, the impellter, shaft seals, bushing, barrings... basicly every thing can be skrewed by it.

[YeLLowBoaT]

A graden hose won't cut it, disingauge your drive shaft.

[blue wonder]

A graden hose won't cut it, disingauge your drive shaft.
well my guess is he doesnt have a full blown race pump so yes a garden hose will cut it!!!...and sometimes disconnecting the driveshaft isnt an option

[YeLLowBoaT]

no it won't, jet pumps are dynaicaly balanced. that means with out water in the impeller they are out of balance. so they wobble all over the place in the housing. Cuasing damage to EVERY part of the jet pump. The heat generated from friction also does damage. Don't run a jet pump unless its in the water, EVER!

[blue wonder]

no it won't, jet pumps are dynaicaly balanced. that means with out water in the impeller they are out of balance. so they wobble all over the place in the housing. Cuasing damage to EVERY part of the jet pump. The heat generated from friction also does damage. Don't run a jet pump unless its in the water, EVER!
how many pumps have you actually built

[YeLLowBoaT]

I burned up enough pumps running them dry never to do it again. If you really think its ok to run a pump with just a garden hose in the intake, are you willing to rebuild his pump when he destroyes it?

[blue wonder]

I burned up enough pumps running them dry never to do it again. If you really think its ok to run a pump with just a garden hose in the intake, are you willing to rebuild his pump when he destroyes it?
well what were the clearances on the pumps you burned up??

[blue wonder]

i asked how many pumps you have built...not burned up...and also i said put the hose up the nozzle not the intake

[YeLLowBoaT]

1st one I have no idea, it was my 1st jet boat, 2nd was strait from a rebuild by berkeley. It was run for about 5 mins to set the timing. then took it out to the lake... vibrated like crazy and leaked like a sive.( even after tighting down the packing glands) So it went back to berkeley, Got a phone call from them asking if the pump had been run dry...Then I got a nice long lecture from the tech and was told I just blew my money.

[YeLLowBoaT]

2
Unless you have proof that runing it with just a garden hose( like testing,,, not I've been doing this for 20 years) I'm going to stick with what I have been told by berkeley and several onter pump builders.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

no it won't, jet pumps are dynaicaly balanced. that means with out water in the impeller they are out of balance. so they wobble all over the place in the housing. Cuasing damage to EVERY part of the jet pump. The heat generated from friction also does damage. Don't run a jet pump unless its in the water, EVER!
i agree with this post 100%!!!!!! I always disconnect my driveline. Then again, my current pump is set up to .028 from face of impeller to wearring. I set my last pump at .020. i set 460 jus getn it's pump to .035.
You can run any pump out of the water if you want to rebuild it often.....

[blue wonder]

1st one I have no idea, it was my 1st jet boat, 2nd was strait from a rebuild by berkeley. It was run for about 5 mins to set the timing. then took it out to the lake... vibrated like crazy and leaked like a sive.( even after tighting down the packing glands) So it went back to berkeley, Got a phone call from them asking if the pump had been run dry...Then I got a nice long lecture from the tech and was told I just blew my money.
well now your getting into something different...the very first time you fire a fresh rebuild on a pump yes it does need to be in the lake to do it properly...but after that depending on clearences a garden hose up the pump is sufficient...you said you ran it for five minutes....did you run it completely dry or did you have a hose up it???

[Moneypitt]

This has been an argument for years here on HB. I have ran jets on the trailer with a water connection to the output (engine cooling) side of the jet for 20 plus years without any problems at all.....If running a jet dry causes it to wobble you better look at your bearings and shaft, which are both overkill in size and rigedity. IMO, you can run a jet on the trailer long enough to set the timing, check for oil leaks, water leaks, (as you do have water going through the motor as well) and just generally check it out. I wouldn't reccomend totally dry for more than a few seconds, (15-30 max), and a very tight performance pump never dry. Its always a good idea to fire your boat on the ramp just prior to launch and that shouldn't be a problem with a basic unit, but the HP pump should be submerged while on the ramp before the engine is barked/tested............Just MO.............MP

[blue wonder]

i agree with this post 100%!!!!!! I always disconnect my driveline. Then again, my current pump is set up to .028 from face of impeller to wearring. I set my last pump at .020. i set 460 jus getn it's pump to .035.
You can run any pump out of the water if you want to rebuild it often.....
well on some boats you cant disconnect the driveshaft...and 28 thousands is kinda tight but not that tight...i would probably disconnect the driveshaft on that one too...definetly at 20 thats about the limit...depending on the type of wear wing you are running of course...but most rebuilds for lake boats are much much looser...and with those tolerances you can get away with a garden hose up the pump...im not saying to fire a pump completely dry by any means at all...but with a hose up the pump thats not completely dry now is it???

[blue wonder]

This has been an argument for years here on HB. I have ran jets on the trailer with a water connection to the output (engine cooling) side of the jet for 20 plus years without any problems at all.....If running a jet dry causes it to wobble you better look at your bearings and shaft, which are both overkill in size and rigedity. IMO, you can run a jet on the trailer long enough to set the timing, check for oil leaks, water leaks, (as you do have water going through the motor as well) and just generally check it out. I wouldn't reccomend totally dry for more than a few seconds, (15-30 max), and a very tight performance pump never dry. Its always a good idea to fire your boat on the ramp just prior to launch and that shouldn't be a problem with a basic unit, but the HP pump should be submerged while on the ramp before the engine is barked/tested............Just MO.............MP
very true...we always disconnect the inlet hose and run two seperate hoses..one for the motor and one up the pump

[blue wonder]

And just how does that lube the packing? Or get water to the wear ring?
stick a hose up your nozzle...turn it on...and see where the water comes out...the intake...you dont think its going by the wear ring to do that???

[YeLLowBoaT]

what about the packing glands then?

[blue wonder]

look enough arguing...is you just want to fire your boat for a little bit before you go to the river to make sure its gonna fire...or set the timing...or check for leaks...and you dont have a race pump..running it on the trailer with a hose up the pump for a little bit is not going to screw anything up...bottom line!!!!!!!!!!

[YeLLowBoaT]

ok, lets ask berkeley... I'll send a email to them and see what they say?

[blue wonder]

ok, lets ask berkeley... I'll send a email to them and see what they say?
who the hell has a pump rebuilt by berkeley anyway????

[Moneypitt]

very true...we always disconnect the inlet hose and run two seperate hoses..one for the motor and one up the pump
I install a gate valve from the jet/engine supply outlet, then a T with a hose bib. This allows you to regulate the amont of water that goes to the jet,(gate valve) and uses only one hose. Also, with wet headers you can close the hose bib, cutting the hose pressure off, before shutting down the engine to prevent back flooding the engine. While on the water the hose bib is closed and the gate valve is open. You can also hook a short hose to the hose bib with a pressure nozzle to wet/cool down a skier if you want to. Also works to put out fires on other boats, or to just be a pest with a hose on a hot afternoon, OR blast those jerks on lake lice that get too close........MP

[blue wonder]

I install a gate valve from the jet/engine supply outlet, then a T with a hose bib. This allows you to regulate the amont of water that goes to the jet,(gate valve) and uses only one hose. Also, with wet headers you can close the hose bib, cutting the hose pressure off, before shutting down the engine to prevent back flooding the engine. While on the water the hose bib is closed and the gate valve is open. You can also hook a short hose to the hose bib with a pressure nozzle to wet/cool down a skier if you want to. Also works to put out fires on other boats, or to just be a pest with a hose on a hot afternoon, OR blast those jerks on lake lice that get too close........MP
i would still stuff a hose up the pump anyway...just a little extra safety measure:)

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

but with a hose up the pump thats not completely dry now is it???
True but, with an ultimate wearring it clearly states "DO NOT RUN DRY" on the instructions;)

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

blast those jerks on lake lice that get too close........MP
I do that with the pumps nozzle:p

[blue wonder]

True but, with an ultimate wearring it clearly states "DO NOT RUN DRY" on the instructions;)
ok but with a hose blasting water is that dry???...i dont think so

[Moneypitt]

i would still stuff a hose up the pump anyway...just a little extra safety measure:)
I get LOTS of water everywhere..........Out the intake, out the nozzle. It actually takes very little to keep an un loaded engine to the "Just warm " stage, so most of the garden hose volume is going to the pump. Open the gate valve all the way and the headers dry up, close it almost shut and the headers just about flood. It is a try and see deal, but there is plenty of water all through the jet. .........I also make a short, 12" or so double female connector hose to go between the garden hose, and the male hose bib. Makes connections quick and easy...........MP

[YeLLowBoaT]

may not be dry, but its not that wet ether. why don't you rebuild a pump back to factory specs with a ultamate wear ring and do some testing...

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

ok but with a hose blasting water is that dry???...i dont think so
Not dry but i will never do it. I like em tight not loose:D

[blue wonder]

Not dry but i will never do it. I like em tight not loose:D
are we still talking about jet drives here????...j/k...i hear ya...if berkeley new hoe tight my pump was they would call me crazy and tell me it wouldnt last 2 minutes...

[blue wonder]

may not be dry, but its not that wet ether. why don't you rebuild a pump back to factory specs with a ultamate wear ring and do some testing...
factory specs???...are you kiding me...do you even know what factory specs on end play are...its a joke...haha...look it up...its kinda funny

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

are we still talking about jet drives here????...j/k...i hear ya...if berkeley new hoe tight my pump was they would call me crazy and tell me it wouldnt last 2 minutes...
I think I got sidetracked Lol :D I hear ya, I run mine a little tight but Im not racing like you guys. Im just a lake biotch:p

[blue wonder]

I think I got sidetracked Lol :D I hear ya, I run mine a little tight but Im not racing like you guys. Im just a lake biotch:p
yeah i know i kinda screwed myself taking a seat out and putting race numbers on it...i used to have a fun river boat...oh well...

[tittyman]

Well, I was the guy that started this thread and I am still not sure of the answer...we all know it's no big deal to turn your motor over just to start it prior to taking your boat out or launching it..but we still need to know..
1. How long can you run your boat on the trailer before you have pump damage.
2. Do you still get damage if you run the garden hose to the pump.
3. If you use a garden hose is it best in the nozzle or up through the grate.
4. Can you remove the cleanout cover and run water that way to eliminate damage.
The amount of time were talking here is maybe to check timing, adjust carbs or just to turn it over during the winter...not long enough to over heat the motor...

[Dominator Scott]

Well, I was the guy that started this thread and I am still not sure of the answer...we all know it's no big deal to turn your motor over just to start it prior to taking your boat out or launching it..but we still need to know..
1. How long can you run your boat on the trailer before you have pump damage.
2. Do you still get damage if you run the garden hose to the pump.
3. If you use a garden hose is it best in the nozzle or up through the grate.
4. Can you remove the cleanout cover and run water that way to eliminate damage.
The amount of time were talking here is maybe to check timing, adjust carbs or just to turn it over during the winter...not long enough to over heat the motor...
Very good questions. I will be following this thread for the answers.

[4trax]

How long would you run your car or truck without oil in it? Or better yet your boat?:hammerhea

[wet77]

Only safe way is disconect your drive line, if that becomes a problem then get a jet-away
I unhooked my driveline about 4-5 times last summer and that was enough for me so now I have a jet-away and I just can't see going without one now:supp:

[old rigger]

Boy, what a long winded thread for such a simple answer.
Of course you can run a jet with a hose and no, it won't hurt the pump one bit.
I learned long ago (from some of the jet 'gurus' still in the biz) to make a T and install it between the gate valve and the hose feeding the engine with water when I wanted to run a boat on the trailer. Did this with every single jet I rigged before delivery and never hurt a pump. Stock pumps, blueprinted pumps, didn't matter. Break in cams, flush from salt water running, whatever the case is. I would never hold it at 5 grand for and hour, but just use common sense and there's no problem. With the gate valve in place you can contol the flow to the pump and the engine. :)
On the other hand, never run with the hose stuck up the nozel, the grate or down the handhole cover.

[Moneypitt]

How long would you run your car or truck without oil in it? Or better yet your boat?:hammerhea
There is no comparision, none, zero........If you're depending on water to lube the front and rear shaft bearings in your jet you're in trouble, big time. If everything else in a jet pump is right, proper clearence @ the wear ring there is no way running wet on the trailer will hurt it. There, I said it again......To compare that to running an engine dry of oil is a joke at best....... In 20+ years the only jet failure I've had is the thrust bearing, once, and it is lubed by grease, not water..........MP

[tittyman]

one of the last posts mentioned installing a "T"...I assume you install the "T" prior to the water gate valve that adjusts the amount of water to the block. I assume the excess pressure from the garden water hose backs up from the gate valve and then flows backwards to the jet pump..and even though the water is really flowing backwards into the pump from inside the transom it still lubricates the pump...is that correct..if it is it doesn't get much easier than that...

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Well, I was the guy that started this thread and I am still not sure of the answer...we all know it's no big deal to turn your motor over just to start it prior to taking your boat out or launching it..but we still need to know..
1. How long can you run your boat on the trailer before you have pump damage.
2. Do you still get damage if you run the garden hose to the pump.
3. If you use a garden hose is it best in the nozzle or up through the grate.
4. Can you remove the cleanout cover and run water that way to eliminate damage.
The amount of time were talking here is maybe to check timing, adjust carbs or just to turn it over during the winter...not long enough to over heat the motor...
1.Can you disconnect your pump?
2.Why dont you do that at the lake on the launch ramp with the boat in the water? That way you can leave the pump connected....

[Moneypitt]

one of the last posts mentioned installing a "T"...I assume you install the "T" prior to the water gate valve that adjusts the amount of water to the block. I assume the excess pressure from the garden water hose backs up from the gate valve and then flows backwards to the jet pump..and even though the water is really flowing backwards into the pump from inside the transom it still lubricates the pump...is that correct..if it is it doesn't get much easier than that...
NO. The T is after the gate valve. From the pump, to a gate, to a T with the hose bib, and on to the motor....To run on the trailer hook a dual F/male hose to the garden hose and the bib. Turn on the garden hose. Open bib to fill block 1/2 way or so, open gate to allow water to run into the jet, start engine. Adjust gate to force water to the engine while also allowing enough to enter the pump. Play with these settings to establish the right flows to do both. Close bib, stop engine. Or if engine dies, close bib right away to prevent header flooding from garden hose pressure. On the water, close the BIB tight, open gate all the way...........MP

[old rigger]

one of the last posts mentioned installing a "T"...I assume you install the "T" prior to the water gate valve that adjusts the amount of water to the block. I assume the excess pressure from the garden water hose backs up from the gate valve and then flows backwards to the jet pump..and even though the water is really flowing backwards into the pump from inside the transom it still lubricates the pump...is that correct..if it is it doesn't get much easier than that...
Unscrew the he hose bib that's on the end of your hose that connects to the gate valve. Now install a little T made out 3 short pieces of hose, the same bib, female, to screw back to the gate valve. On the other end a male bib so you can connect the engines hose. Going straight up in the center will be another female bib so you can connect the garden hose. With water on, you can open the gate calve if you want more water to the pump (it's water, and it's going to flow the path of least resistence) or you can close it down and more will flow to the engine.
Bottom line is, you won't damge a thing.
Infact you'll do more harm to the pump towing your boat across the desert (or any road) on the way to the river with all the grit, sand, small nuts and bolts, and who fockin knows what else, that finds it's way into the bowl of your pump and then you launch and fire it up blasting all that crap through your nice, rebuilt Berkely. We made a cover for ours that we'd attatch for long trips.
Oh yeah, if you do make a cover for the intake and go to the river and party really, really hard and wake up with a killer hangover and smell like long island ice teas and vomit, make sure you take the cover off of your nice, newly rebuilt pump before you get the boat in the water with a dock full of your buddies all wanting to see this deal run, and ......you stab the gas and go nowhere. Loads of fun and good for years and years of joke telling from your friends. :)
moneypitt beat me to it, he a faster typer.

[cave]

old rigger, do you have a picture of the "T" you installed back in the day? I could not find a brass cap to close the hose connection of the "T".

[old rigger]

old rigger, do you have a picture of the "T" you installed back in the day? I could not find a brass cap to close the hose connection of the "T".
Well I didn't run in the water with the t installed, so I didn't need the cap. I just installed the T when running on the trailer and then took it off when I was done. I've had the same T since 1979. Not an item that really wears out. :)
I just remembered I made one for someone here on the boards a few years ago and sent it to them, never heard a 'thanks', 'fock off', or anything from him. Can't remember who it was so it doesn't matter now.
And when we'd deliver a new boat, if the owner wanted I'm make him one too. Good customer relations ya know.

[Moneypitt]

old rigger, do you have a picture of the "T" you installed back in the day? I could not find a brass cap to close the hose connection of the "T".
Thats why I use a hose bib. (garden hose faucet). Just turn it off and it's sealed............Unless you want to be a pest with a hose..........MP

[tittyman]

Moneypitt...how much water do you need to see coming out of the jet..I assume the volume is not very much..because the "T" is after the gate valve I assume you must be very careful about the water pressure so you do not flood the block...I assume you need to keep a close eye on the temp guage and watch the flow out the back of the jet until you reach the necessary amount of water flowing out the back of the jet...correct

[Moneypitt]

Moneypitt...how much water do you need to see coming out of the jet..I assume the volume is not very much..because the "T" is after the gate valve I assume you must be very careful about the water pressure so you do not flood the block...I assume you need to keep a close eye on the temp guage and watch the flow out the back of the jet until you reach the necessary amount of water flowing out the back of the jet...correct
well, yeah. You have 3 regulators. One: the garden hose pressure/volume. Two: the hose bib on the T. And Three: the gate valve. With these controling the volume of water you can adjust them to supply the engine without flooding the headers, the pump with enough to not worry. You can put all you want to the pump........It takes a couple of times to get it down, but then you will remember.(example) The gate is 2 turns up, the bib is 3 turns up, and the garden hose is 4 turns up......(up=on/open) Be careful, the pump only delivers water while the engine is running and forcing water OUT of the headers. The garden hose doesn't know the motor quit and WILL flood the headers and possibly run back into the motor. By closing the bib quickly you don't have to run to the other end of the garden hose to stop the water flow if the engine dies.........AND turn it off before shutting the engine down.........The water in the block will run back out thru the gate to the pump, so you can dry the headers up while still supplying water to the pump just prior to shut down. (Sometimes you may want to hear the exhaust without water for tuning purposes, open the gate more and the water goes out thru the pump, close it back down and the water returns to the engine/headers).......MP

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Im going to buy a jetaway this year for mine. Then I dont have to worry about a thing;)

[Dominator Scott]

If anyone a has a pic of this T fitting plumbed in I would really like to see it.

[Heatseeker]

...Oh yeah, if you do make a cover for the intake and go to the river and party really, really hard and wake up with a killer hangover and smell like long island ice teas and vomit, make sure you take the cover off of your nice, newly rebuilt pump before you get the boat in the water with a dock full of your buddies all wanting to see this deal run, and ......you stab the gas and go nowhere. Loads of fun and good for years and years of joke telling from your friends. :)
moneypitt beat me to it, he a faster typer.
Good advice, that!!!
Prestone used to make an inline cooling system flush adapter for cars. I had one on my first jet. You plumbed the tee into the engine supply line. The tee had a removable cap on it. To run the boat on the trailer, you' remove the cap and connect the little hose adapter dealio to the tee and turn on the hose. It would keep the engine cool for tuning purposes. I seriously doubt your household water hose could supply enough water volume to do anything to help a pump.
I run my boat on the trailer just long enough to make sure it'll fire and to check the timing before I go out everytime. Nothing worse than getting to the water and having a "no fire" in front of the crowds! After one season on my fresh pump I opened it up and couldn't find any signs of a problem at all. My ultimate wear ring still looked brand new. I'll be opening the pump up again next week, so I guess I'll see if there is any long term damage from this practice.
Just my experiences...

[Legal Chemistry]

If anyone a has a pic of this T fitting plumbed in I would really like to see it.
I can take a picture tonight... It's easy once you see it, a bit harder to explain.

[Moneypitt]

If anyone a has a pic of this T fitting plumbed in I would really like to see it.
My Berk has a 1/2 pipe fitting at the pump. So, at the pump,a 1/2 pipe nipple, then a 1/2" female to female, 45* fitting.( A short run of 1/2 pipe, maybe 6 to 8",(or what it takes to make it easy), then a 1/2" gate valve, another short 1/2" pipe run, (again, what it takes to make it easy), then a 1/2" pipe T. Then either a hose barb fitting to the engine cooling or whatever plumbing you had. On the open side of the T, screw in a common garden hose "bib", (faucet).(MAY require another 1/2" nipple) You're done.(You MAY want to support this plumbing from the stringer).......Leave the male thread of the bib "up" so it is easy to connect a double female ended "connector" hose to the bib and the garden hose. When in the driveway adjust the flows as mentioned before, and on the water, OPEN the GATE all the way, and CLOSE the BIB, all the way....You COULD restrict the incoming water flow from the jet to the engine with the gate valve, BUT this method is NOT reccomended for temp control, and other EXIT controls are available for that purpose................Hope this explains this quite simple plumbing using Galvanized fittings and pipe from your local hardware store. Make sure the gate valve is not restricting flow in the full open position.........MP

[old rigger]

If anyone a has a pic of this T fitting plumbed in I would really like to see it.
It's pretty easy to make, if you don't have an extra T like the one in the pic that says nicson on it, just make one out of stuff from the hardware store.
Place in-between the gate valve and the hose feeding the engine, attach the garden hose to the top and you're there. Control the flow of water by the gate valve, you don't need to ad another to run on the trailer. Remove when you're done, don't run in the water with the T in place.
I mis spoke in my earlier post by saying 'hose bib', I meant just the hose ends, male and female. I'm not a plumber so bib was the first thing that popped into my mind. :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/flyin-t/t0012.jpg

[painterdan32]

I realize that I am still a newbie to jet boat ownership (only three years into this), but I feel a voice of someone like me needs to be heard also. It really comes down to what you believe here on these threads. Who is right and who is wrong. This is not a new topic here. On one hand you have the guys that say "run em" and the other says "don't". In the middle you have the guys that say run them with water in either (or) end. Some have sucess, some don't. Some can't even tell if they dammaged anything. It seems that everyone has a personal choice on what they like and what works for them. My only sugestion for this is simple. Wether you work on boats for a living or not, rebuild your first jet by yourself or with help from these posts and friends in your garage. It may not be a perfect rebuild, but it's your first jet! Go ahead, cuss, scream, throw stuff... all those things we do when we're learning. If we were all perfect from the start, where would we go from there? Remember that this "thing" you rebuilt is an overglorified water pump. The better you rebuild it, the more water it pumps. The more it pumps, the better it propells you. That part is simple. The complex part of this is what I ran into. After buying all the parts, all the tools (not cheap either), spending all the time learning (on here), having machine work done, and then rebuilding my first jet pump, I cringe every time I fire it up before going to the lake. I don't need to fire it, I can turn the key and look at the guage to tell me if I have battery. It's just a big block thing I guess. Once you've personally gone through all of this work and money, I believe your perspective on the issue of running the jet out of the water will be determined by your experiences durring the rebuild. My jet sucks to get to, cost money to rebuild, and keeps me off the water when it is messed up. I timed and tuned mine in the water. Up the channel... down the channel... you get the picture. Then after base was done we took it out to the lake. I'm truly happy with the results (pretty much stock). Along with doing the rebuild myself, I understand more of the posts on the site and I have a better idea on what I really want in my next boat. Just my .02. By the way... did my last English course help with this post? ... I didn't think so either... but I go an "A". Not bad for a 38 year old freshman eeh?

[MudPumper]

If you can safely run the pump out of water with a garden hose, then why do top pump builders NOT recommend doing it????? Water Lubricated Bearings, Packing Gland....These parts need total submersion in water to be properly lubricated. Sure you can run it for short times and I'm sure the damage won't be noticeable but it all adds up little by little. Maybe not a big deal for those of you who have not spent thousands in parts and pump work but I'll choose to run mine in the water. :mix:

[centerhill condor]

If you can safely run the pump out of water with a garden hose, then why do top pump builders NOT recommend doing it????? Water Lubricated Bearings, Packing Gland....These parts need total submersion in water to be properly lubricated. Sure you can run it for short times and I'm sure the damage won't be noticeable but it all adds up little by little. Maybe not a big deal for those of you who have not spent thousands in parts and pump work but I'll choose to run mine in the water. :mix:
ditto

[Cs19]

If you can safely run the pump out of water with a garden hose, then why do top pump builders NOT recommend doing it????? Water Lubricated Bearings, Packing Gland....These parts need total submersion in water to be properly lubricated. Sure you can run it for short times and I'm sure the damage won't be noticeable but it all adds up little by little. Maybe not a big deal for those of you who have not spent thousands in parts and pump work but I'll choose to run mine in the water. :mix:
ditto, this thread is just killin' me.

[MudPumper]

Oh, one more thing. Don't forget to cover your intakes before towing to and from the water. :supp:

[old rigger]

Oh, one more thing. Don't forget to cover your intakes before towing to and from the water. :supp:
Have you ever torn down a pump to see what kinda crap was thrown up into the bowl after towing your boat 300 miles to the river? We did to prove a point back in the 80s and there was lots of crap lodged in there. We weren't the first to make a cover for the intake, but we ran one after seeing the stuff up in there.
Cracks me up, guys won't run their boat on the trailer hooked up to a hose
for fear of doing damage (it won't) but they beach their boat on the sand, which packs sand in the bowl, or brag about running in a foot of water, which is just as bad. :)

[Cas]

Sorry, it's long winded.
It looks like there's a couple of viewpoints here, 1 from a racer's and the other from lake boaters.
In my own personal experience with my first boat many years ago, I did all kinds of trailer running with that thing.....tune ups, warm ups, running once a week in the winter. From the first day I ran it until the day I sold it 11 yrs later, the engine would turn 4600 rpms. Hell, I didn't even know about checking bowl oil for 5 of those years but I did always back into the water and pull it out before starting it after a tow. I would also always use the garden hose to flush it out before running but never left the water running in it.
Was there damage from running on the trailer, I have no idea except for the fact it lost nothing on the water. I will assume there was some but for a 360hp Olds in a boat that may have gone 60, it was neglegable. It was a Berk JC with an A impeller.
With the Panthers, I ran those things out of the water all the time....even broke in 2 cams on one of the pumps without any issues.
On my current boat with a 23 yr old JG/A, I just found out there was about .040 imp/wr clearance but it still ran almost 72 mph. I have no idea what this pump went through for 21 of those years except that it's apparent it was beached quite often before I owned it.
Before I ever put the boat in the water, I took the bowl off and found all kinds of sand and gravel in it. I'm guessing most of it was from the tow up hwy 99 from Socal to NorCal.
From a racer's point of view, which I'm not, I can see why they wouldn't want to run the pumps dry. With the tighter clearances and a lot of money in their pumps I probably wouldn't do it either as it could possibly damage the pump enough to shave off a couple of 10ths.
As far as covering the pump when towing, it's pretty easy to do. I made a cover yrs ago out of a truck tube. Cut it to about 5' long and then cut it lenght wise. Crawl under the trailer and mark off on the bunks where the intake would be. Next time you launch the boat, attach the rubber to the bunks on either side of the intake so when you put the boat back on the trailer, the weight of it will push down of the rubber and seal the intake. I left a 1/2" gap at the reat so water would drain out. Did that make sense? :D

[1978 Rogers]

Have a friend squire WD-40 in the intake to keep everything lubed well. :supp:

[jungledave]

How long can you safely run a berkley jet out of the water (dry) before you cause damage..and if damage occurs is it just the wear ring...It says right in the berkley owners manual for my 83 sleekcraft that you can run the pump dry for the same amount of time you can run the engine without water circulation at idle. I hook mine up to a t and clamp off about half of the water to the jet and let the rest run through the engine. I am new to the whole jet boat thing but I have done this with my berkley and my Jacuzzi with no problems so far.

[bp]

Have you ever torn down a pump to see what kinda crap was thrown up into the bowl after towing your boat 300 miles to the river? We did to prove a point back in the 80s and there was lots of crap lodged in there. We weren't the first to make a cover for the intake, but we ran one after seeing the stuff up in there.
Cracks me up, guys won't run their boat on the trailer hooked up to a hose
for fear of doing damage (it won't) but they beach their boat on the sand, which packs sand in the bowl, or brag about running in a foot of water, which is just as bad. :)
you don't have to tow 300 miles to have crap blown into the intake that will affect clearances. a boat towed around the block can do that. which is why running the pump out of the water causes damage. damage in this case isn't "blowing it up", or "busting vanes off the impeller or bowl"; the damage is detioration of clearances.
you can either have an efficient pump and treat it with the appropriate care, or just run the engine because you like hearing it run without disconnecting the driveshaft, and make it less efficient. treat it properly or abuse it, your choice.
i may not have as much experience with jets as some others, but i have owned nothing but jets since 1977. i haven't started the engine on the trailer with the pump connected since 86, and i don't have problems, efficiency or otherwise, with my pump.

[El Prosecutor]

As far as covering the pump when towing, it's pretty easy to do. I made a cover yrs ago out of a truck tube. Cut it to about 5' long and then cut it lenght wise. Crawl under the trailer and mark off on the bunks where the intake would be. Next time you launch the boat, attach the rubber to the bunks on either side of the intake so when you put the boat back on the trailer, the weight of it will push down of the rubber and seal the intake. I left a 1/2" gap at the reat so water would drain out. Did that make sense? :D
That is cool idea. I am going to try it. Last year I talked to somebody at one of the shops (I beleive it was Duane at HTP) that told me that debris picked up on the road caused more wear to the average jet drive than any other factor.
As for Canuck and Aluminum Squirt; going through 6" of water pumping pea gravel and steelhead off the bottom at 5100 rpm may cause some wear too. . .

[Moneypitt]

It says right in the berkley owners manual for my 83 sleekcraft that you can run the pump dry for the same amount of time you can run the engine without water circulation at idle. I hook mine up to a t and clamp off about half of the water to the jet and let the rest run through the engine. I am new to the whole jet boat thing but I have done this with my berkley and my Jacuzzi with no problems so far.
you don't have to tow 300 miles to have crap blown into the intake that will affect clearances. a boat towed around the block can do that. which is why running the pump out of the water causes damage. damage in this case isn't "blowing it up", or "busting vanes off the impeller or bowl"; the damage is detioration of clearances.
you can either have an efficient pump and treat it with the appropriate care, or just run the engine because you like hearing it run without disconnecting the driveshaft, and make it less efficient. treat it properly or abuse it, your choice.
i may not have as much experience with jets as some others, but i have owned nothing but jets since 1977. i haven't started the engine on the trailer with the pump connected since 86, and i don't have problems, efficiency or otherwise, with my pump.
The only way to disconnect my pump is to pull the motor forward, a task I choose not to do. I think you are a little too proud of your jet and the "clearances" inside it. It is not a precision assembly, it is a water pump, period. The precision clearances are in the bearings, not the impeller/wear ring. I have no water lubed bearings or bushings, the shaft is straight, and shaft ends, (hard chromed) to bearing/bushing tolerances do not allow the shaft to jump around enough to cause the impeller to touch the wear ring. If they did, the water load would certainly wipe the ring out quickly while on the water.......If you set your pump up on the bench, and used an electric motor to spin it, say 500 RPMs for a year, totally dry, with only grease and oil, no water, are you saying it would be damaged?................MP

[Cas]

I have no water lubed bearings or bushings, the shaft is straight, and shaft ends, (hard chromed) to bearing/bushing tolerances do not allow the shaft to jump around
but you do have seal to shaft contact and it needs water to cool it. Here's a pic of the inside of my 23 yr old pump when I got it. You can see the little groove just ahead of the threads on the shaft.
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/3870Dsc00308-med.jpg
When I took it apart, that groove is exactly where the seal came in contact with the shaft. Is it from running dry? I don't really know but after 20+ years I'm pretty sure it didn't help.

[Moneypitt]

I've seen the same type groove on harmonic balancers, and I know there is no water requirement to lube them, and the seals do get old and hard. How were the bushings? Those shafts are hard chromed and harder than hell, so something equally as hard had to come in contact with the shaft. Maybe sand, maybe road dirt, but I seriously doubt wet "trailer" running had anything to do with a rubber seal making that groove.
PS: As I recall the bowl bushings are right behind that seal and the seal's purpose is to keep oil in and water out. If the oil in the bowl was neglected and allowed to run dry, that seal would no longer have the oil to lube it, could get hot and destroy the seal...........

[bp]

I think you are a little too proud of your jet and the "clearances" inside it.
really? maybe you should stop thinking about it. you have no idea what the inside of my pump looks like.
It is not a precision assembly, it is a water pump, period. The precision clearances are in the bearings, not the impeller/wear ring.
running it dry will certainly help you achieve and maintain that imprecision you're after.
If you set your pump up on the bench, and used an electric motor to spin it, say 500 RPMs for a year, totally dry, with only grease and oil, no water, are you saying it would be damaged?................MP
not gonna happen, so the question is meaningless. if you're trying to convince everyone that it's "ok" to run the thing dry, you're wasting your time.
my boat travels 14,000-16,000 miles a year on the trailer. the drive unit has to be dependable enough to "forecast" et's to within one or two hundredths of a second everytime i go out. the clearances in my pump are the same now as they were 8 years ago. proud? no; i'd be disappointed if they weren't, because i take precautions to maintain that condition. one of those precautions is to not run the thing dry.

[Duane HTP]

Why???? The volume of rocks and sand are less on the road than in the river....
Why? because the rocks and sand in the river are wet and so is the pump when running in the river. In those kind of conditions it's suprising how much trash can go through a pump without too much damage.
When you've hauled your boat home on the road and picked up even a small amount of rocks or sand, it's a different story. The sand vibrates down in between the wear ring and the impeller. It packs itself in there. Now while your boat is setting on the trailer waiting for the next outing, the water evaporates out. (the packed sand is dry). When you fire up your engine with the pump in this condition, you grind away a little of the wear ring and impeller material each time you do it.
Running a pump on the trailer is kind of like lighting a match and holding it under your finger. Can you? Sure you can.
If you hold the match a foot away, no problem.
If your pump had .070" clearance, no problem. (to run on trailer).
If you hold the match real close to your finger, or if your pump clearance is good and close, Something is going to get hurt.

[Moneypitt]

really? maybe you should stop thinking about it. you have no idea what the inside of my pump looks like.
Oh I think I do, I've seen some of the best.....
running it dry will certainly help you achieve and maintain that imprecision you're after. [QUOTE]
You're putting words in my mouth, I never said run it dry, I said you can run it wet on the trailer......
not gonna happen, so the question is meaningless. if you're trying to convince everyone that it's "ok" to run the thing dry, you're wasting your time. [QUOTE]
Why is it meaningless? It was a real question about longivity and the effects of turning the bearings without any water, like the bearings were designed to do........
my boat travels 14,000-16,000 miles a year on the trailer. the drive unit has to be dependable enough to "forecast" et's to within one or two hundredths of a second everytime i go out. the clearances in my pump are the same now as they were 8 years ago. proud? no; i'd be disappointed if they weren't, because i take precautions to maintain that condition. one of those precautions is to not run the thing dry.
So you don't know if it would've changed had you ran it dry. You're ASSUMING it would hurt it, but you don't know and don't want to take the chance, fair enough. Your usage is quite different from the original questioner, and my answer was to him as far as running it wet on the trailer, and I still say for his use, it shouldn't be a problem. I am a machinist and know precision tolerances. If your pump is as precision as you say it is what would you have to worry about? It should run dead on true within the precision bearings, within the precision wear ring, within the precision bowl, on the precision shaft, right? So what is going to rub? Dirt? Sand? Sure, but even putting the boat in the water doesn't assure the dirt/sand is gone before you spin it. Am I trying to convience people what to do with their boat? NO........Just trying to give honest answers based on experience, like you........MP

[SmokinLowriderSS]

ok but with a hose blasting water is that dry???...i dont think so
With a UWR, it IS. UWR runs an INTERFERENCE FIT to the impeller. Without6 pressurizedf water behind it to push between it and the impeller, you will ruin it in scant secconds. $120+ down the toilet.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Well, I was the guy that started this thread and I am still not sure of the answer...we all know it's no big deal to turn your motor over just to start it prior to taking your boat out or launching it..but we still need to know..
1. How long can you run your boat on the trailer before you have pump damage.
2. Do you still get damage if you run the garden hose to the pump.
3. If you use a garden hose is it best in the nozzle or up through the grate.
4. Can you remove the cleanout cover and run water that way to eliminate damage.
The amount of time were talking here is maybe to check timing, adjust carbs or just to turn it over during the winter...not long enough to over heat the motor...
1.- depends on how tight the wear ring is to the impeller, an UWR, NONE!
2.- Yes, just somewhat less.
3.- Both!
4.- Add that one too, and pray ... and plan to rebuiild more often than just running in the lake.

[MWJSOne]

Ok here is the Hamilton pump view of running dry
The stages have Cutless berrings and you don`t fire it dry
The Kiwis some of the biggest cobblers in the world
came up with a tool that looks like a drain plug with a small hole that fits in the outlet side of the pump,and a cover that fits the intake grate that has a garden hose and you can pump water into the pump and run the engine.This gives you a stream of water shooting out the back and keeps things wet.
Best thing is to make a cover that fits your intake grate find a local fire house and or hook up to the fire hydrant.
Sprint with a Scott 3 stage 7 3/4 inch pump this set up will flow 25K gallons a min
Other is my sprint with a 2 stage Hamilton pump

[rrrr]

Prestone used to make an inline cooling system flush adapter for cars. I had one on my first jet. You plumbed the tee into the engine supply line. The tee had a removable cap on it. To run the boat on the trailer, you' remove the cap and connect the little hose adapter dealio to the tee and turn on the hose. It would keep the engine cool for tuning purposes. I seriously doubt your household water hose could supply enough water volume to do anything to help a pump.
I run my boat on the trailer just long enough to make sure it'll fire and to check the timing before I go out everytime. Nothing worse than getting to the water and having a "no fire" in front of the crowds! After one season on my fresh pump I opened it up and couldn't find any signs of a problem at all. My ultimate wear ring still looked brand new. I'll be opening the pump up again next week, so I guess I'll see if there is any long term damage from this practice.
Just my experiences...
LOL.....I'm just wandering through here.....only owned one jet, back in '79....
But I had that same Prestone tee in mine. What are the chances? :D Never saw any problems on parts from the occasional trailer start.
This thread gets repeated about once a year.....:sleeping:
Originally posted by Old Rigger
I just remembered I made one for someone here on the boards a few years ago and sent it to them, never heard a 'thanks', 'fock off', or anything from him. Can't remember who it was so it doesn't matter now.
Memory is the first thing to go!!! fock off!! errrrr, thanks! LOL :hammerhea

[Xerophobic]

Why???? The volume of rocks and sand are less on the road than in the river....
Exactly what I was thinking too. You guys have way more fragile pumps down there or something? We do stuff WAY worse than this to pumps and don't see signifigant wear over reasonably long periods of time. We freely pump gravel, sand, rocks, twigs etc thru pumps for hours and hours and don't see huge losses in performance(assuming SS) Never quite got that...
Cheers

[wet77]

When I bought my daytona out in WA after the 34 hour drive home across the country I first understood of why you need to cover your pump on the road:hammerhea
I never ran the pump at first because I wanted to see how it all looked inside , (check impeller cut, bowl condition, ect..) When I took it all appart I was amazed at the sticky road tar and gravel mess that accumulated in the intake and the bottom of the impeller and bowl! What a mess! It took lots of cleaning to get it all out of the pump.
Ever since then I always cover the pump up and bought one of HTP's covers to do just that. I guess like others have said allready it depends on what you are doing and how much you value your pump or how much money you have allready spent on it, for me these things are not cheap and I would hate to see all the money spent ruined by pulling the boat with the pump not covered!:idea:

[Cas]

Exactly what I was thinking too. You guys have way more fragile pumps down there or something?
Cheers
nope, we just have bigger egos and a bigger need to be right :supp:
We do stuff WAY worse than this to pumps and don't see signifigant wear over reasonably long periods of time. We freely pump gravel, sand, rocks, twigs etc thru pumps for hours and hours and don't see huge losses in performance
Cheers
that's cuz you all have softer gravel, sand, rocks and twigs....:D

[dumbandyoung]

yes we thrive on being right and talkin shit. lol.
place diverter told me to disconnect.. well im lazy and have never done it..tried one time at the river but it was 110 degrees in my garage and the swamp cooler was broke so i said F it! lol. but ive never ran the boat out of the water less than a minute and half.(with water in the engine and a hose in the pump). never had any problems.. i know i should but i dont ..if you can and you have the time ... disconnect

[dumbandyoung]

When I bought my daytona out in WA after the 34 hour drive home across the country I first understood of why you need to cover your pump on the road:hammerhea
I never ran the pump at first because I wanted to see how it all looked inside , (check impeller cut, bowl condition, ect..) When I took it all appart I was amazed at the sticky road tar and gravel mess that accumulated in the intake and the bottom of the impeller and bowl! What a mess! It took lots of cleaning to get it all out of the pump.
Ever since then I always cover the pump up and bought one of HTP's covers to do just that. I guess like others have said allready it depends on what you are doing and how much you value your pump or how much money you have allready spent on it, for me these things are not cheap and I would hate to see all the money spent ruined by pulling the boat with the pump not covered!:idea:
do you drive it through the baja 1000??

[Wet Dream]

Never longer than whatever it takes to make sure the motor fires.

[Xerophobic]

nope, we just have bigger egos and a bigger need to be right :supp:
that's cuz you all have softer gravel, sand, rocks and twigs....:D
haha yea I guess so.
This wasn't a Berk mind you, but the way you guys are talking we'd have been limping back to the trailer by the end of the day...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88TYjBrPprQ
we weren't and funny the pump on this boat still hasn't been rebuilt and it doesn't seem any slower now than it did back then
Cheers

[Cas]

not me, I fire mine on the trailer fairly often, I just make sure to rinse it out the best I can before doing so. Then again, I'm not out there looking for 100ths of a second or .05 mph.

[Duane HTP]

Sorry, No sarcasim intended in any way. Just trying to make people aware of what can happen. Sometimes I try to make people think on their own, rather than just give an answser that they won't pay attention to. You know, if it's their own idea, it means more to them.