What to build?

[Duel in the Sun]

I have had jets all my life and I love all the info on boats and motors. I want to build a circle boat and possibly run it in some races. If I run a blown motor does it have to be on alcohol to race? I have some parts to get the projest going but I am not sure if I am building a motor that will compete. I also need a boat. I have a 4 bolt chevy block that is 60 over and a scat crankshaft. I have not baught rods or pistons yet. I have a littlefield 14-71 blower. Any info would be great.

[wsuwrhr]

You forgot to say how much so you want to spend? What are you looking to build? Are you planning on building a motor around your blower, or are you planning on selling the blower to help build the project. You left so much out.
Like Billy said, a K-boat motor will cost 50K to build.
If you are set on circle racing, I doubt the 14-71 will useful for anything other than K-racing.

[wsuwrhr]

I think there are a couple boats available in the spam section that are circle racers.

[Duel in the Sun]

50 thousand to build a K motor? Is that right? Not to be an ass but can you break that down for me? I just can't see spending 50k. Is that using an alumium block?

[superdave013]

you could run GN with a blown gas engine.

[Kindsvater Flat]

Guess you're old and were hooked on this boat. :D
http://www.colusanet.com/do-it-yourself-dragboat/images/albright-boat-1.jpg

[wsuwrhr]

I am just repeating what Billy said to you in another thread.
I have never built a K motor, but I have heard him say that figure a few times.
Brian
50 thousand to build a K motor? Is that right? Not to be an ass but can you break that down for me? I just can't see spending 50k. Is that using an alumium block?

[wsuwrhr]

Of the few K's I have seen they have all used iron blocks
50 thousand to build a K motor? Is that right? Not to be an ass but can you break that down for me? I just can't see spending 50k. Is that using an alumium block?

[wsuwrhr]

GN would be able to use a 14-71 SD?
Brian
you could run GN with a blown gas engine.

[WannabeRacing]

$50K may be a little high for the average, but it has been done before, and could very easily be done again and again.
Break it down? Real easy
Merlin Block 3K, machine work 2500, jesel lifters 2800, T&D rockers 2000, spread port heads with ti valves and psi springs 8000, winberg crank 2800, billet m300 rods 1800, wrist pins 890, We are at 25grand and we don't have a blower, fuel pump, manifold, pullys, covers, pistons, rings, oil pan, injector, lines, tune-up, oil pump, dry sump tank, Oh my gosh! The list goes on.
But could you build a decent blower motor for $15k? Sure.
Could you build a decent engine that would run a good circle boat at 80 mph and go race with the nostalgia class for 5K? Sure! (Nostalgia is circle racing with 80mph speed limits.)
I say- get a good circle boat and run a less expensive engine. Just what you have with a few new parts. Find out if you like it. Then if you do, you can get a better engine in the same boat and run quicker and faster. But no need to go broke before you even find out if you like it.

[wsuwrhr]

Spot on.
Big HP motors(that last) aren't cheap. No surprise on the figure to me.
I have half that figure in my aspirated alloy motor and I still need pistons and camshaft and some machine work.
Brian
$50K may be a little high for the average, but it has been done before, and could very easily be done again and again.
Break it down? Real easy
Merlin Block 3K, machine work 2500, jesel lifters 2800, T&D rockers 2000, spread port heads with ti valves and psi springs 8000, winberg crank 2800, billet m300 rods 1800, wrist pins 890, We are at 25grand and we don't have a blower, fuel pump, manifold, pullys, covers, pistons, rings, oil pan, injector, lines, tune-up, oil pump, dry sump tank, Oh my gosh! The list goes on.
But could you build a decent blower motor for $15k? Sure.
Could you build a decent engine that would run a good circle boat at 80 mph and go race with the nostalgia class for 5K? Sure! (Nostalgia is circle racing with 80mph speed limits.)
I say- get a good circle boat and run a less expensive engine. Just what you have with a few new parts. Find out if you like it. Then if you do, you can get a better engine in the same boat and run quicker and faster. But no need to go broke before you even find out if you like it.

[Duel in the Sun]

Is a GN boat similar to a K boat or are they totally different classes and styles?
I am doing my best to break down the 50k for a K motor thing.
Brand new block (dart or merlin) 4K machined and ready to go
brand new blower from any of the good blower companies$4500
New fuel injection hat complete 2K
New crankshaft 2500
New rods 1500
New pistons 1000
New rings 350
New lifters 400
New oil pan 700
Valve covers 250
New ignition from MSD 2000 New heads from Dart or Brodix or AFR $4000 complete with rockers from T and D
New manifold 1000
Oil pump 200
fuel pump 600
Machine work balance and miscellaneous (plumbing etc) $5000
All of this adds up to $30,000
Throw in the cost to assemble it $2,000 and you are at $32,000 roughly. I feel I used inflated numbers on every part. Not seeing 50K WSUWRHR.

[Duel in the Sun]

$50K may be a little high for the average, but it has been done before, and could very easily be done again and again.
Break it down? Real easy
Merlin Block 3K, machine work 2500, jesel lifters 2800, T&D rockers 2000, spread port heads with ti valves and psi springs 8000, winberg crank 2800, billet m300 rods 1800, wrist pins 890, We are at 25grand and we don't have a blower, fuel pump, manifold, pullys, covers, pistons, rings, oil pan, injector, lines, tune-up, oil pump, dry sump tank, Oh my gosh! The list goes on.
But could you build a decent blower motor for $15k? Sure.
Could you build a decent engine that would run a good circle boat at 80 mph and go race with the nostalgia class for 5K? Sure! (Nostalgia is circle racing with 80mph speed limits.)
I say- get a good circle boat and run a less expensive engine. Just what you have with a few new parts. Find out if you like it. Then if you do, you can get a better engine in the same boat and run quicker and faster. But no need to go broke before you even find out if you like it.
Are these the typical motors that the circleracers are running? Those are some nice parts. I was not thinking of running Jesel lifters and the rockers I found to be a grand to 1300.

[wsuwrhr]

Buddy,
I'll RESTATE it for you, the 50K figure is the number I said Billy threw out to you when you asked another question in another thread. I just went and reread it and he said 35-50K.
I have heard the number stated before.
I have NEVER built a K motor.
Brian
Is a GN boat similar to a K boat or are they totally different classes and styles?
I am doing my best to break down the 50k for a K motor thing.
Brand new block (dart or merlin) 4K machined and ready to go
brand new blower from any of the good blower companies$4500
New fuel injection hat complete 2K
New crankshaft 2500
New rods 1500
New pistons 1000
New rings 350
New lifters 400
New oil pan 700
Valve covers 250
New ignition from MSD 2000 New heads from Dart or Brodix or AFR $4000 complete with rockers from T and D
New manifold 1000
Oil pump 200
fuel pump 600
Machine work balance and miscellaneous (plumbing etc) $5000
All of this adds up to $30,000
Throw in the cost to assemble it $2,000 and you are at $32,000 roughly. I feel I used inflated numbers on every part. Not seeing 50K WSUWRHR.

[Duel in the Sun]

You forgot to say how much so you want to spend? What are you looking to build? Are you planning on building a motor around your blower, or are you planning on selling the blower to help build the project. You left so much out.
Like Billy said, a K-boat motor will cost 50K to build.
If you are set on circle racing, I doubt the 14-71 will useful for anything other than K-racing.
It looked to me like you are stating this and supporting it with what the other guy said. N need to get all pissy.
Would it be wiser to just buy a turnkey boat ready to race that can perform some river fun as well? How tough is the racing?

[wsuwrhr]

No sir,
I was just relaying information to a guy looking for some.
Brian
It looked to me like you are stating this and supporting it with what the other guy said. N need to get all pissy.

[superdave013]

Is a GN boat similar to a K boat or are they totally different classes and styles?
GN's are v bottom v drives. They run much longer heats too. I would think it would be a very fun class to run. It will be very hard to win for sure.
Pretty much if you run a blown flatbottom that will put you with the K boats. You can run gas if ya want I guess. But if you want to win you will not only have to spend the bank to make the power to run with Phaff and Grosse built engines. But you will have to have the skill and stones to shoe it too. Heck, a rookie might spend more on crashed boats then engines. lol
Pretty much you would be starting at the very tip top of the food chain.
That would be like me asking about top fuel for my first drag car. ;)

[obnoxious001]

I have had jets all my life and I love all the info on boats and motors. I want to build a circle boat and possibly run it in some races. If I run a blown motor does it have to be on alcohol to race? I have some parts to get the projest going but I am not sure if I am building a motor that will compete. I also need a boat. I have a 4 bolt chevy block that is 60 over and a scat crankshaft. I have not baught rods or pistons yet. I have a littlefield 14-71 blower. Any info would be great.
Probably the best advice to you is to attend the next circle boat race, talk to people there about their boats and costs, and watch how wild the various classes are. I agree that starting off in one of the nostalgia classes is perhaps the best way for someone to start. You can do a lot of reading online, but showing up at a race will give you a better idea of what goes on, and what you need to have to compete, in equipment, money and guts.

[Duel in the Sun]

Thank you for the responses. When is the next circleboat race? Where is it? Do you have the rules for nastalgia? Can I run my blower motor in the class to get my feet wet. thanks again.

[Duel in the Sun]

The race that I saw in Long beach it didn't look lkie they were going too fast. Maybe a hundred. I saw a couple blown boats go upside down but I dont think anyone was injured.

[Moneypitt]

As mentioned, the K class is the top of the heap......Also as mentioned, find a good sound hull with most of the sirens and bells still in it. (there are a couple of SS boats in spam that fit the bill). Start out single carbed in the Nostalgia flat class, 80.9 speed limit, and see what you think......Then step it up to dual dominators or injection and a few more inches, (PS class=500 max.) You can run race gas or alcohol in either of those classes. If you choose to make a mid point stop at Super Stock there are many, many engine specs that must be met, and IMO that is a very expensive way to race. Joey's SS53 is a very competitive D'Cucci hull with alot of tried and true additions from many years of competition in SS, AND Joey would more than likely offer to help you anyway he could to get it on the water and competing in either Nostalgia or PS........Also the SS27 is for sale as well as the SS33....To try to jump headlong into circle racing would be a little tough, not impossible mind you, but tough nonetheless. ..........Ray......PS89

[Moneypitt]

The race that I saw in Long beach it didn't look lkie they were going too fast. Maybe a hundred. I saw a couple blown boats go upside down but I dont think anyone was injured.
The 80.9 Nostalgia is hauling ass on the water, but, The Ks run 125+, the PS 115-118 (although only the PS681 has cracked 110 here lately), and the SS 110-115. The SS80 boat will give "most" K boats a tough way to go because it is set up soooooo well. The K8 that went over at Long Beach was pretty much destroyed, and the driver dislocated both hips. That was the last "Kelron" hull built before Ron Bolton passed away. As fas as the next circle race, it will be in March at lake Ming, Bakersfield. The actual dates have not yet been set as SCSC and the Kern Co. permit people are still working out the dates. Ross will post the dates here as soon as they are set...The class hulls have small differences, mostly in the "lay up" of the glass, engine and strut locations, plate lengths, etc. You can run any of them in any class, but a light lay up SS boat would take a beating with a heavy K set up in it, and a single carbed SS motor in a K would be pushing a heavier boat around. I encourage you to come to Ming, check things out, watch the different classes, see the way these boats break parts and hulls, and get a general feeling of the attitudes of the racing Family........If you do show up, introduce yourself as you wander around the pit areas.......Ray

[vdriver4ever]

You have gotten some great answers here and you must realize no one knows your skill level, budget or ambitions. Most everyone on hereare telling you what it takes to win dollar wise. I am sure you can spend a lot less but do you want to be competitive.
Everyone points more to the boat because that is much harder to get set up right then just building HP. If the boat is right then you can tell any good engine builder you want 600 HP or 1000 HP. But there is only a handfull of people that can make a boat work right. If you don't have a boat working right then it doesn't matter how much HP you have.
The other important point is no rookie wants to start out with a bad handling boat. That would discourage the best of em...

[wsuwrhr]

Imagine that rush.
The stones it takes to shoe a TFD for the first time.
Brian
That would be like me asking about top fuel for my first drag car. ;)

[Monkey Bung]

i cant believe you guys are buying this!!!!

[Moneypitt]

i cant believe you guys are buying this!!!!
Yeah I kinda realized there is someone missing from the boards the last few days........But it is slow and boring, so I figured the way he has been "hit" the last few days, he deserves a little fun at our expense.........MP

[Rattle Can Lou]

This thread smells likes Santa's ass crack. I smell Kato. This thread needs Blly and Sammons to come on here and srtaighten things out.

[Moneypitt]

This thread smells likes Santa's ass crack. I smell Kato. This thread needs Blly and Sammons to come on here and srtaighten things out.
Easy there trigger, or you'll get this thread dumped in bench racers like the other one...........MP

[058]

This has "fishing expedition" written all over it and the trout are circling the bait.:D

[Duel in the Sun]

I am not sure what you mean but I am just trying to learn from people who have been htere done that so to speak. My first goal is to get a boat llike vdriver4ever said to do. Moneypitt you said 80-90 is flying on the water. My jeboat ran close to 80 and it felt like I was going 180. I have driven flattys at Mojave and the river but nothing that is worth mentioning. I belive one was a Fraws? and the other was a sangrr bubbledeck. The Sangar had a smallblock with 4 down draft webers.

[Rattle Can Lou]

Whatever, Please don't get this moved to Bench Racers. That would be criminal. Are you sure you don't want to be a drag fag? Gotta go now to catch my flight home to Idaho...where mem are men AND SHEEP ARE SCARED...RCL on the move

[Moneypitt]

Whatever, Please don't get this moved to Bench Racers. That would be criminal. Are you sure you don't want to be a drag fag? Gotta go now to catch my flight home to Idaho...where mem are men AND SHEEP ARE SCARED...RCL on the move
Hey Lou, you forgot Mouzer's Hobbit boat!!!!!! He said it was going to Idaho, I just figured you were the new owner..............Can I get a tour of the coach next year at Burley? I missed out last June!!!!...............Ray

[vdriver4ever]

That belongs to me Ray and you can step in anytime! there is always a cocktail awaiting for you. Just ask Sammons and crew.

[Moneypitt]

That belongs to me Ray and you can step in anytime! there is always a cocktail awaiting for you. Just ask Sammons and crew.
Oh, now I know, P550 ......Let me ask you, were they using red Hawaiian shirts with white flowers on them for team shirts before "their tour" last june??.........Ray

[vdriver4ever]

They brought them fag shirts all they way from sunny San Diego...
I wouldn't let them wear them in camp....

[SERIOUS ISSUES]

If you really are looking at a boat and want to race PM me or call me (chad 602-703-1491. We have been racing SS for 3 years and are building a K boat now. We have 2 Superstocks ready to race for sale as well. One of them you could put a K motor in it when you are ready. The K motor we are going to run is going to cost 15-20k and will put out about 1200hp to give you an idea on cost. The Superstock motors will cost 7-10k if you know someone to build it or you do it yourself or you can spend 20-30k for a profesionaly built motor. A good used boat no motor will cost $7000-$9000 and $12000-$16000 complete depending how nice it is. A very nice boat will go for $12k+ without motor (Jeff Brochheuser's Canary as an example). I dont know what Jeff wants for sure but it is at least 12k.

[mouzer]

Get Mouzers K-boat and start raceing wont find one nicer:jawdrop:

[dmontzsta]

I think starting out in a K boat is getting in to it a little fast. They are not as "user friendly" as a jet boat. Why not go SS to start? it will get you some good seat time and will not cost a fortune for the motor.

[Duel in the Sun]

What is the low down on the superstock motors? Are they like a claimer class? Is the boat that mouser has a good superstock? I would be up for that class. I watched them run in Long beach also. I am not filty rich so the cheaper the better.

[Moneypitt]

Alright, lets peg this guy..........Anybody remember anyone moving or visiting Arcadia?.............MP

[Duel in the Sun]

Why cant you believe me when I tell you who I am? IS this is a joke?

[Bobbo541]

Gotcha :) some guys never get it.

[Duel in the Sun]

I spoke with the gentleman that used to own the Hobbit boat and apparently he has another Hobbit complete with a motor ready to run. Kind of pricy but he said it would kick ass over the boats out there.

[vdriver4ever]

Gosh I know I would... just the thought if owning a boat that would kick a$$ on the rest is cool....
Vdriver4ever's leg not being pulled any longer..... :jawdrop:

[BIGCHRIS]

I spoke with the gentleman that used to own the Hobbit boat and apparently he has another Hobbit complete with a motor ready to run. Kind of pricy but he said it would kick ass over the boats out there.
Dude there are some bad ass K boats out there not to mention some serious drivers to go along with them so i call BS on that (I AGREE WITH RCL ON THIS)

[dossangers]

What is the low down on the superstock motors? Are they like a claimer class? Is the boat that mouser has a good superstock? I would be up for that class. I watched them run in Long beach also. I am not filty rich so the cheaper the better.Thats FUNNY a claimer class it aint' Jolopy Racing Sphinkter Boy!!! :eek: :eek:

[Hud]

It always cost 25 percent more than you think....C'mon!:D your killin me Wayne!!!!

[WannabeRacing]

If you want to prove you are for real, buy a boat and come on out and race. There are a half a dozen boats talked about here that are worth owning. Buy one and come on out. There is no way on planet earth that you could build one for as inexpensive as these. Always cheaper to buy it running than starting from scratch. Used engines always sell for less than building brand new.
Nostalgia rules- (basically) if it is a v-drive flat, run it. Any engine combo, Blower, carb, injected, any horsepower, any standard sized hull. Come out and run, if you are for real.
If you wanna keep phishing, feel free to visit another board.
(That claimer thing is funny though . . . A $30,000 claimer engine.)

[Duel in the Sun]

Thank you for the info wannabe. As far as the name calling dossangers, why must you do that? I am for real and I plan on coming out to race. I am just getting started in this and was trying to gather as much info as possible. I was not referring to the K class as being a claimer class. I was referring to the nostalgia class, sorry for the confusion. I will stop bothering all of you big time racers now so feel free to throw digs my way.

[Rattle Can Lou]

Oh we will...Just getting started??? Seems to me you have quite a pedigree. Not quite as nice as "The Real King", and probably not as nice as Mr. Bryant...but your gettin there. You can't keep your head under the tall weeds forever...Come out, come out, whoever you are!
We were just havin some fun with ya.

[Rattle Can Lou]

Oh we will...Just getting started??? Seems to me you have quite a pedigree. Not quite as nice as "The Real King", and probably not as nice as Mr. Bryant...but your gettin there. You can't keep your head under the tall weeds forever...Come out, come out, whoever you are!
We were just havin some fun with ya.
I can't beleive you called Mouzer an ass munch???

[Moneypitt]

If you are for real, and we have doubts because of previous experiences, by all means come on out and race, watch, help, hangout. As far as APBA claimer classes, there currently are none. There was an effort to start a "Sportsman E class", and to keep things on an even playing field, a claimer engine. That didn't get past the rules commitee, although those are to be "spec'd" engines (SBC) if and when the class ever gets off the ground. If you are for real, hang around and gain a little of our confidence in your sincerity. I agree, it is a little early to resort to name calling, but learn to go with the flow, and don't take anything here personally............MP

[FLYTE RISK]

I think starting out in a K boat is getting in to it a little fast. They are not as "user friendly" as a jet boat. Why not go SS to start? it will get you some good seat time and will not cost a fortune for the motor.
I dont know about that, seems to me the SS boats are always under water not the K"s!!:sleeping:

[Jetboatguru]

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Not quite sure about this one yet.

[Duel in the Sun]

I spoke to a Jeff Brachiser (sp?) about the boat he had for sale, but he said he was not sure if he wanted to sell it. It makes me wonder about all of the other boats out there. Are Laveycrafts any good? How about Hallet Sprints? I have heard alot about both, but I am interested in your professional opinions. Can you offer up anything on those boats?

[circleboatKIDD]

This one for sale ready to go:D
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/17boat1_002.jpg

[WannabeRacing]

As a general basis- Laveys are fast on the straights. They don't turn as well and they are harder to drive. They are also fairly dangerous. Not too many guys around know how to set one up right and make it work really well, where there are lots of guys around that can set up a Biesemeyer or a splash. Laveys like a certain type of prop, and there are not that many around. Lots of stuff around for Biesemeyers or even the narrow Bezer and take offs of it.
If you are looking to play around, a Lavey may be O.K. But if you are looking to go racing more than just occasionally, I think I would stay away from a Lavey.
This Ski deck Biesemeyer listed above is not a bad option. The SS33 and SS27 are nice boats. (I like the 27 better.) Mouzer is selling the Hobbit deal for a good price and will handle big horsepower if you wanted to go with that blower.
I have never owned a Hallett-baron deal. But understand they set up like a narrow B. Good striaght line and wider turn boat, but not sure if I would go narrow if you are going circle racing on a full time basis. Would make a great nostalgia boat, if that is what you are thinking.

[Sanger D]

Scarlatta will tell you that that hobbit boat is a decent boat!!! he did some pretty impressive speeds in it,and the last time I talked to chuck , the hobbit that is in his barn is a phaph(sp) motor and a carbon fiber floor,for 35K .......cannot be beat for the price and that boat is new............................................... .....................the SS class boats are no easy play!!!!! a newby by all means should start with at least a season of nostalgia, to be any kind of compitition!!!!!...or maybe a ride in a cracker box might suit ya,YEEEE HAAWWW

[fc-pilot]

or maybe a ride in a cracker box might suit ya,YEEEE HAAWWW
Now that is one heck of a way to find out what kind of anatomy this guy has. I have driven through some wild stuff, but you won't catch me riding shot-gun in a cracker.:eek:
Paul