ford oil pan

[jetboat]

have a 468 ford being built,the question is on the one boat i have,(460) the stock oil pan has baffles.the other boat with a 468 ford (was a460)the stock pan is just a pan,no nothing!.looked on e-bay to get a nicer chrome or something,and low and behold,they have no baffles.whats up? the heads have been ported and polished,will be installing a air-gap w/ a 850 carb,msd,and undetermind as yet cam.also ot headers.for some iam the few people with a restored avenger,and now also with a taylor being redone.

[Ken F]

Jetboat, having just gone through this scenerio myself, go with one which has baffles. I tried a Milodon "jetboat" pan, and had major oiling issues running anything above 4500 rpm.
Without boring you with all the details, what finally solved it was an Armando's Racing Oil Pan.
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Flats/1624/index.html
Hope this helps,
Ken F

[jetboat]

thanks for the site,you answered as i thought,you wonder why they gust let the oil slosh around!

[Ken F]

LOL...I'll bet they have never ridden in a jetboat!
My engine builder who builds BBF pulling truck engines, and lots of marine engines got his first ride in mine during the time we were trying to solve my oiling issues. After taking him up to 4500, and watching the oil pressure fall off, I said "well, you want to try a hole-shot?"
He kind of grinned and said yup, why not.
So I gave it to him full bore, no holds bared. His eyes got huge, but he had a grin on his face the whole time. After we slowed again, he said If he would have had ANY idea of the kind of acceleration it was capable of, he would have known right off what the problem was. Said he had no idea, and had never ridden in anything that would accelerate that hard.
Ken F

[engine31957]

I have been running a 10 qt. dooly pan for about 6 yrs & have had no oil problems what so ever , at WOT im pushing about 6100 rpm ,oil pressure is right 65 , 80 when cold
john

[jetboat]

your correct about riding in a jet boat,the engine builder in olk.(known as impentiant) hopes to get 500hp with my budget.not a big monster,but without correct oiling,its only a matter of time.hope to have progress pictures soon.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

In anything other than a VERY mild Ford, you need to go to a rear-sump pan, as Ken just alluded to. It needs some baffling, AND a good windage tray (this part is no diferent Ford to Chevy, both need a rear-sump, baffled, and windaged) to try to controll the oil on accelleration. IMO pan volume is seccondary in a jet boat aplication to having the pickup at the rear of the engine for the oil to slosh TOWARD instead of away from.

[Ralph Brunt]

http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/120222-18-05_007-med.jpg
armondo's pan
ralph

[jetboat]

is that pan by who!looks good.

[Nick69]

how deep can you go on a taylor ss or sj

[e514jet]

I am running a Dooly 10 quart as well. Thats the only pan pro boat in GA
recommends for the fords. E

[SmokinLowriderSS]

how deep can you go on a taylor ss or sj
I think THAT will give you trouble. Do you have the E or F pump? The 3-point mount sits the pan very close to the intake form. You may need a custom for some width for volume. I have an SS, and just haven't reached the stage yet for a larger pan.

[Blown 472]

I think THAT will give you trouble. Do you have the E or F pump? The 3-point mount sits the pan very close to the intake form. You may need a custom for some width for volume. I have an SS, and just haven't reached the stage yet for a larger pan.
If the back of the pan doesn't go lower then the bottom of the flywheel you will be ok with an E or F pump.

[jetboat]

the pump is a je-a impler,the motor was not in the boat when i got it,so i dont know how low they sit in a sj.any sj owners out there?

[Nick69]

it's a je , i was just curious because i'm thinking about upgrading the pan while the motor is out:idea:

[IMPATIENT 1]

your correct about riding in a jet boat,the engine builder in olk.(known as impentiant) hopes to get 500hp with my budget.not a big monster,but without correct oiling,its only a matter of time.hope to have progress pictures soon.
names impatient 1 steve,lol. steve's(jetboat) got the 12je pump and i think i'm gonna take and weld in a baffle in the frt. sump pan he has already. it'd be hard to find a pan to clear the recess in the hull(pump intake) with the basic jetboat pan. i never had any trouble runnin a frt. sump pan in my bbf sj, never lost oil pressure at wot or accelerating.

[Ken F]

i think i'm gonna take and weld in a baffle in the frt. sump pan he has already. it'd be hard to find a pan to clear the recess in the hull(pump intake) with the basic jetboat pan. i never had any trouble runnin a frt. sump pan in my bbf sj, never lost oil pressure at wot or accelerating.
The link I posted above for Armando's - if you send him diminsions he will build you a pan that will fit your boat. That being said, what about when you hammer your boat and the front end comes up? Where is the hot oil going to go? to the back of the front sump, and over the baffle.....there hangs your pickup in mid-air. Not to say that you won't get away with it, or that it WON'T work, but IMO why risk it? Especially with someone elses engine?
What I've found during my oiling woes is that stock rear sump pan worked fine up to a certain HP. (around the 450-500 HP level) Past that is where I started having problems. It cost me two rebuilds, one crank, and two seasons of not being able to boat as much as I wanted, and a lot of worry.
If you are planning to go with the stock pan, at least add an Accusump to take up the slack.
Just my opinion and experience. You can do with it what you want.
Hope this helps.
Ken F

[Ralph Brunt]

i'm with Ken on this one i lost a motor the cost offset does'nt add up i think Armondo charged 350ish for my pan vs the 3,500 on the new engine. if you got money to throw away and feel LUCKY well you know.
ralph

[Nick69]

names impatient 1 steve,lol. steve's(jetboat) got the 12je pump and i think i'm gonna take and weld in a baffle in the frt. sump pan he has already. it'd be hard to find a pan to clear the recess in the hull(pump intake) with the basic jetboat pan. i never had any trouble runnin a frt. sump pan in my bbf sj, never lost oil pressure at wot or accelerating.
ya i know because he got the boat from me, my stock jet oil pan has a baffle in it stock and it is a front sump i think oscar put them in with front sumps to make sure and clear the je, never had any trouble yet i was just thinkin that the extra oil might be helpful , i run syntec in mine, i also got a blue thunder intake for the 460 it is said to make more power than the rpm?, i started coming over here because rob is to censored on the Robs taylor boat roost:rolleyes:

[Nick69]

i'm with Ken on this one i lost a motor the cost offset does'nt add up i think Armondo charged 350ish for my pan vs the 3,500 on the new engine. if you got money to throw away and feel LUCKY well you know.
ralph
what engines are you and ken runnin

[Devilman]

The link I posted above for Armando's - if you send him diminsions he will build you a pan that will fit your boat. That being said, what about when you hammer your boat and the front end comes up? Where is the hot oil going to go? to the back of the front sump, and over the baffle.....there hangs your pickup in mid-air. Not to say that you won't get away with it, or that it WON'T work, but IMO why risk it? Especially with someone elses engine?
What I've found during my oiling woes is that stock rear sump pan worked fine up to a certain HP. (around the 450-500 HP level) Past that is where I started having problems. It cost me two rebuilds, one crank, and two seasons of not being able to boat as much as I wanted, and a lot of worry.
If you are planning to go with the stock pan, at least add an Accusump to take up the slack.
Just my opinion and experience. You can do with it what you want.
Hope this helps.
Ken F
What is that, an Accusump?

[Ken F]

Devilman, an Accusump is a canister which you can get and it will hold anywhere from 1.5-3 qts of oil. You plumb it into your oil system, and when your engine is running it charges it with whatever your oil pressure in your engine is. On startup, it turns on with the ignition or manually (depending how you set it up) and it pre-oils your engine before startup, so you have oil pressure before ever turning your engine over. Also, more related to what we are talking about, if your oil pressure falls off while runnning, once your oil pressure goes below 30 lbs it releases its stored charge of oil keeping your pressure up until your oil pump can recover-once it does, it recharges the accusump with oil & pressure making it ready for the next one.
Pretty neat deal.
http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/accusump_purchase/accusumps.html
Nick69, I"m running a Aluminum head 501 BBF stroker I think rwyyattb is running something pretty similar, but I'll let him speak for himself

[IMPATIENT 1]

The link I posted above for Armando's - if you send him diminsions he will build you a pan that will fit your boat. That being said, what about when you hammer your boat and the front end comes up? Where is the hot oil going to go? to the back of the front sump, and over the baffle.....there hangs your pickup in mid-air. Not to say that you won't get away with it, or that it WON'T work, but IMO why risk it? Especially with someone elses engine?
What I've found during my oiling woes is that stock rear sump pan worked fine up to a certain HP. (around the 450-500 HP level) Past that is where I started having problems. It cost me two rebuilds, one crank, and two seasons of not being able to boat as much as I wanted, and a lot of worry.
If you are planning to go with the stock pan, at least add an Accusump to take up the slack.
Just my opinion and experience. You can do with it what you want.
Hope this helps.
Ken F
funny how the maker(oscar taylor) of the taylor boats thought they worked ok because all the 12je bbf taylor out there came with a frt. sump pan oe. i've own 2 taylors(sc and sj) and both were bbf, and both came oe with the frt. sump pan without a baffle.i welded in a baffle on the sj since it was built to cove race.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

If the back of the pan doesn't go lower then the bottom of the flywheel you will be ok with an E or F pump.
Yes, it pretty much can go no lower than the stock pan. There's room for width, or a longer sump fwd, but not down.

[Devilman]

Devilman, an Accusump is a canister which you can get and it will hold anywhere from 1.5-3 qts of oil. You plumb it into your oil system, and when your engine is running it charges it with whatever your oil pressure in your engine is. On startup, it turns on with the ignition or manually (depending how you set it up) and it pre-oils your engine before startup, so you have oil pressure before ever turning your engine over. Also, more related to what we are talking about, if your oil pressure falls off while runnning, once your oil pressure goes below 30 lbs it releases its stored charge of oil keeping your pressure up until your oil pump can recover-once it does, it recharges the accusump with oil & pressure making it ready for the next one.
Pretty neat deal.
http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/accusump_purchase/accusumps.html
Nick69, I"m running a Aluminum head 501 BBF stroker I think rwyyattb is running something pretty similar, but I'll let him speak for himself
That sounds like a pretty slick setup! I'm still running the factory style 5 qt front sump pan on mine. Which sux, cause I have a factory Ford marine style 10 qt pan(with matching pickup!) which I can't use. Its about an 1 1/2" too deep at the rear & won't clear the front of the intake.:mad: Friend of mine gave me the link to those Armando's pans recently, prolly what I'll be going with when I build the other motor.... Thanks fer postin the link, I'll have to check it out!:cool:

[SmokinLowriderSS]

funny how the maker(oscar taylor) of the taylor boats thought they worked ok because all the 12je bbf taylor out there came with a frt. sump pan oe. i've own 2 taylors(sc and sj) and both were bbf, and both came oe with the frt. sump pan without a baffle.i welded in a baffle on the sj since it was built to cove race.
Ummmm.... FORD sent their motors out that way, since they designed the 385 block motors with a front oil sump/pump/pickup, Taylor had nothing to do with it. I heavilly doubt that there were many options to change the oil pan back in the 70's either.
I'm glad you are getting away with it, it would make me more than a little nervous.

[Ralph Brunt]

mine is a d3 headed 502 and my oil temp gets up to 250 degrees with the 10 quart pan how hot does your oil get?? when does oil start to brake down??
these are ?? that helped me get a new pan.
ralph

[Devilman]

mine is a d3 headed 502 and my oil temp gets up to 250 degrees with the 10 quart pan how hot does your oil get?? when does oil start to brake down??
these are ?? that helped me get a new pan.
ralph
Not sure if you were referring to me, but I change my oil every 3 or 4 outings. Figured btween that & not running the shit out of it may help it last until I can get a different pan....LOL :cool:

[jetboat]

gentelman,thanks for all the responce to the oil pan question,but i think ill trust impatient 1 knowledge reguarding what to do with a atock pan.when your a "mr.goodwrench" i will defer to his knowhow.kenney,thanks for your input also.

[IMPATIENT 1]

Ummmm.... FORD sent their motors out that way, since they designed the 385 block motors with a front oil sump/pump/pickup, Taylor had nothing to do with it. I heavilly doubt that there were many options to change the oil pan back in the 70's either.
I'm glad you are getting away with it, it would make me more than a little nervous.
no doubt most high performance boats need a good pan, but for the "good ole boy" lake boat thats never gonna see 80 with a tailwind or race alot, alittle work to a stock pan works fine. i wanted to run a nice pan on my sj since it was gonna be raced everytime i went to the lake, but after ordering 2 different ones(summit:mad: ) that didn't clear the recess in the hull, i gave up and improved the pan i had the best i could.
i've got a spare 1977 bbf that matches p# for p# what came in my oe milled 78sj when i got it, it has rear sump.i've gotta call or email brett taylor and have him ask his dad whats up with the frt. sumped pans, if he did it because of the clearence issues at the time or if that was what worked and he let it be.i'll report back their answer here:idea:

[Ken F]

Jetboat & Impatient1,
I hope you don't take it that I was trying to bag on you in any manor.
Sometimes it sort of hard to express yourself on the internet without things coming out sounding like you didn't intend.
I was only trying to give you my experiences. I'm certainly not a professional mechanic or engine builder, but have researched this area quite a lot due to the problems I've gone through with my engine as it has increased in HP over the last few years....Seems like 500 HP was sort of the magic number where I started having pretty severe windage/oil problems. Just trying to save you some of the torment I went through.
Good luck with your build. Hopefully everything will work out fine, just keep a mindful eye on your oil pressure guage!
Ken

[Ralph Brunt]

Devilman i was in no way refering to you or anyone else. i was refering to the post in general and like ken giving my experiences (spelling?) and the ??'s i posted are just ?? i asked my self, how hot and how long does it take to heat up 5 quarts of oil compared to 10. jetboat they have been running front sump pans longer than i have been boating, so it must work if care is taken. good luck to you.
ralph

[Nick69]

mine has a baffle in the pan stock and i'm adding a windage tray to the bottom of the crank

[IMPATIENT 1]

Jetboat & Impatient1,
I hope you don't take it that I was trying to bag on you in any manor.
Sometimes it sort of hard to express yourself on the internet without things coming out sounding like you didn't intend.
I was only trying to give you my experiences. I'm certainly not a professional mechanic or engine builder, but have researched this area quite a lot due to the problems I've gone through with my engine as it has increased in HP over the last few years....Seems like 500 HP was sort of the magic number where I started having pretty severe windage/oil problems. Just trying to save you some of the torment I went through.
Good luck with your build. Hopefully everything will work out fine, just keep a mindful eye on your oil pressure guage!
Ken
ken, i didn't take in a bad way, just a discussion bro. no doubt everyone with a jetboat that can afford a nice pan should get one for sure. steve(jetboat)isn't gonna be spinnin anymore than 4800-5k wot once the pump gets loaded and i'm hopeing his mill will get the same oil pressure results i got on my bbf powered sj.
i was deinately watching my oil pressure gauge like a hawk after i rebuilt it to run nitrous and race alittle. i actually took a vacation the week i finished my sj, took it to the lake, tooled around till i thought the cam had plenty of time to break in, i shut it down and double checked everything since it was the maiden voyage of it after a total overhaul of the boat. everything was cool, i found a nice cove with decent chop, nailed it and oil pressure went to shiattt:sqeyes: i paddled @1 mile to the dock, put it on the trailer, went to the dealership i'm the foreman at, stuck on the manual gauge, and bammo, damn faria gauge!!!! it scared me:D thought i fu__'d up not giving it the volume of oil it needed, but after 3 trips without pressure loss of any kind, i never worried about it again.

[jetboat]

so ill just wait until the answere from the man himself.

[Devilman]

Devilman i was in no way refering to you or anyone else. i was refering to the post in general and like ken giving my experiences (spelling?) and the ??'s i posted are just ?? i asked my self, how hot and how long does it take to heat up 5 quarts of oil compared to 10. jetboat they have been running front sump pans longer than i have been boating, so it must work if care is taken. good luck to you.
ralph
I gotcha, I was just throwin it out there. I still catch myself running around the lake with my fingers crossed. :D Prolly will continue till I get that big pan too. LOL

[IMPATIENT 1]

another consideration is pump, is it high volume or not. i bet a high volume pump would leave a frt sump pan dry at wot real quik, cavatate the oil pump and blow some air into the galleries.i personally don't like high volume pumps on 6-7qt pans for this reason, unless i had a 10qt. pan like i do now on the tx-19. even though its got 10qts. to work with ,i'm not runnin a hv pump since its roller cammed and doesn't require near as much oil volume as a hyd. cammed mill does.

[LakesOnly]

another consideration is pump, is it high volume or not. i bet a high volume pump would leave a frt sump pan dry at wot real quik, cavatate the oil pump and blow some air into the galleries.i personally don't like high volume pumps on 6-7qt pans for this reason, unless i had a 10qt. pan like i do now on the tx-19.You are not going to pump the pan dry with a high volume pump. If you are pumping the pan dry simply because you changed to an oil pump that has the capability of flowing (but not necessarily delivering) 15% more oil, then you have other oiling system imbalances to review, such as insufficient oil supply for the application, poor top-end drainback, etc. Oil pump flow rates are measured in a free-flowing state (ie mechanical pumping capability)and not when they are in an engine working against bearing clearances, etc.
The standard passenger car oil pump works very well in a standard passenger car engine, but I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss HV oil pumps. Oil pressure is oil pressure, regardless of the gerotor's dimensions used to draw oil from the pan. And in the case of the 385-Series factory-style oil pump, the excess engine oil that's not needed is bypassed right back into the rotor's intake side of the pump...so having that increased volume available, if and when needed, can be a blessing. Especially when you're running your engine at 5000 rpm sustained.
I think that running a high volume oil pump in most jet boat applications is an excellent idea. These engines were orignally intended to be cruising down a smooth asphalt highway at 2200 rpm. Due to the severe abuse of the marine application and the extended high rpm's, one must rely on the virtues of engine oil a LOT more than during the other real world applications of these engines.
Engine oil:
lubricates
acts as a cooling agent
acts as a cleaning agent
acts as a seal
is an anti-corrosion inhibitor
often serves as a hydraulic fluid (pressure-backed chain tensioners, hyd lifters, etc.)
aids in cold starting (multi-viscosity knows when to be thin).
Still don't think a good oiling system is important? Try this with two identical engines:
Engine #1) Drain all the coolant from this engine's cooling system but leave the oil in the pan. Start it up and see how long it will run...and run...and run.
Engine #2) Drain all the oil from this engine's oiling system but leave the water in the cooling system. Start it up and see how quickly it grenades. :jawdrop:
Don't cheap on your jet boat motor's oiling system. Not in the pan, not in the pump, not anywhere.
LO