water killing my idle

[ss wannabe]

Question: Why is my engine dying from idle when the water gets to my exhaust? It idles great dry, but as soon as the water gets to the headers, it stumbles and dies. I thought maybe it's pulling water into the cylinders during overlap, but the cam isn't that wild (.600 lift and 89deg overlap). Am I dealing with a vacuum leak? Something else? It's only getting a little water and it has baffled mufflers. Without the mufflers, it doesn't die, but the idle does come down a bit. Ideas?
Thanks in advance.

[Sangster]

You shouldn't have water to your headers at an idle...

[V-DRIVE VIDEO]

Whats up brian? I run water and mufflers also, the addition of water at idle slows mine down also but it won't die. If I idle around too much I get water in the oil. I run an unmodified Basset T with pills at the injection tubes. My camshaft is smaller than yours. I don't know if this will help you or not just more food for thought. Jerry

[superdave013]

Like sangster said, no water at idle. I, myself hate water injection no matter what RPM.
If you get water up in your heads you can pretty much bet you just cooked those hot exhaust valves. I've got a few sets of spent ones just from that.
For me it's full water jackets all the way or dry.

[GofastRacer]

Yep, get rid of the water and life becomes nicer!. wink

[Moneypitt]

How are you pumping the water in? And where else is it going out? I've found it is a fine line between too much exhaust water, and not enough..I've heard of throttle accuated valves that shut down some of the input water at idle, maybe some additional dump volume thru a valve?, or a relief "T" in the line...I've had the same problem before, and just plumbed in a solution..Moneypitt

[058]

89 deg of overlap is enough to suck the chrome off a trailer hitch ball. Shut off the water.

[126driver]

058:
89 deg of overlap is enough to suck the chrome off a trailer hitch ball. Shut off the water. Chrome trailer hitches. jawdrop Some of you guys have all of the bling-bling. :p

[old rigger]

058:
suck the chrome off a trailer hitch ball. reminds me of a girl I knew in High School.....

[stilettovdrive]

knew Bitch like that too, She sucked a golfball through 60 feet of Gardenhose like nothing.
The viking.
[ August 19, 2003, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: stilettovdrive ]

[058]

old rigger:
058:
suck the chrome off a trailer hitch ball. reminds me of a girl I knew in High School..... Ahhhhhh....A very rare girl indeed
:D :D :D

[Sangster]

Good Girls are hard to find....

[old rigger]

058:
old rigger:
058:
suck the chrome off a trailer hitch ball. reminds me of a girl I knew in High School..... Ahhhhhh....A very rare girl indeed
:D :D :D Yes, she was a rare girl.
But she was very POPULAR rare girl.

[Mako 321]

Here is the answer to all of your water problems at idle speed. Start with a seperate pickup off the cav plate. Use a #8 line to a tee, out of the tee with two equal lengths of #8 to the headers. Take the fittings in the headers and tap the hole 6-32 thread. Get yourself short 6-32 brass machind screws and drill a #55 drill hole through the center of the screw, locktite the screw into the fitting, connect the fittings and enjoy your boating at idle. You wont get any water to the pipes at idle speed and enough water at running speed. I've had this setup for years and my headers look like new. No pressure tee valves to deal with. Any questions, send me a email.
Walt

[superdave013]

Mako 321:
Here is the answer to all of your water problems at idle speed. Start with a seperate pickup off the cav plate. Use a #8 line to a tee, out of the tee with two equal lengths of #8 to the headers. Take the fittings in the headers and tap the hole 6-32 thread. Get yourself short 6-32 brass machind screws and drill a #55 drill hole through the center of the screw, locktite the screw into the fitting, connect the fittings and enjoy your boating at idle. You wont get any water to the pipes at idle speed and enough water at running speed. I've had this setup for years and my headers look like new. No pressure tee valves to deal with. Any questions, send me a email.
Walt I have a question about that set up. What stops the water when you lift of the throttle quickly. You know, running 100+ and lift. The engine is at idle but the boat is still going over 80mph.

[058]

superdave013:
Mako 321:
Here is the answer to all of your water problems at idle speed. Start with a seperate pickup off the cav plate. Use a #8 line to a tee, out of the tee with two equal lengths of #8 to the headers. Take the fittings in the headers and tap the hole 6-32 thread. Get yourself short 6-32 brass machind screws and drill a #55 drill hole through the center of the screw, locktite the screw into the fitting, connect the fittings and enjoy your boating at idle. You wont get any water to the pipes at idle speed and enough water at running speed. I've had this setup for years and my headers look like new. No pressure tee valves to deal with. Any questions, send me a email.
Walt I have a question about that set up. What stops the water when you lift of the throttle quickly. You know, running 100+ and lift. The engine is at idle but the boat is still going over 80mph. The thought of that trailer hitch ball comes to mind...Bling..Bling :D

[058]

...and those popular "rare" girls wink

[Mako 321]

Super Dave---
Remember each pipe is orficed to a #55 drill hole so the amount of water is reduced to each tube. You still get some drainage from the lift. My boat runs above 120 mph and I've NEVER had a problem with water in my oil. I've been involved with V-drives for over thirty years and this has been the best I've found. Try it, you'll like it.
Walt

[stilettovdrive]

Bitch i knew was very popular too, especially after the first golfball that took her teeth...
Ohhhh those campingtrips with all the guys, back then when the dinosaurs walked on earth..........

[superdave013]

Mako 321:
Super Dave---
Remember each pipe is orficed to a #55 drill hole so the amount of water is reduced to each tube. You still get some drainage from the lift. My boat runs above 120 mph and I've NEVER had a problem with water in my oil. I've been involved with V-drives for over thirty years and this has been the best I've found. Try it, you'll like it.
Walt Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of using pills/jets to restrict it. Just with the big cams I ran It always seemed to get up to the exhaust valves. Your method of doing it to each tube is thinking that's for sure. They don't clog up with only a #55 drill?
I did it kinda like you did using enderly pills. I also had the water go through a barrel valve that shut it off at idle and also shut it off at WOT. I had my water going into the collectors at the vacuum ports. Even with just a slight mist I was still cooking valves. Not once did I ever see water in my oil.
I now run fully water jacketed headers or if I'm using Bassets I just run them dry.

[Lookin for Liquid]

Suck a golfball thru 60' of hose.....Yeaaaahhhh Baby

[BGMAN203]

screw the water thing, I toasted some valves that way too. i run them bassetts dry too, i always got baffles with me if the law wants to give me shit.

[Hud]

I just use a fuel shutoff valve up by the seat for the water. When the law is around I turn it on. Jet Hot those headers and run them dry. Only way to fly! Valve & Jet Hot! idea No water below 2000 rpm!
[ August 20, 2003, 06:55 AM: Message edited by: Hud ]

[burbanite]

Dry for me.

[TX Daytona]

Knew one once that could suck start a Harley. Ah youth, it's wasted on the young.

[CircleJerk]

You dont have to be an SS wannabe, just come to one of our nOSTALGIC races and be one! Brian, where have you been? Three boats tow from Portland every race weekend. Would you like their numbers so you can hook up? With or without a boat you would be more than welcome and we would love to see your RARE boat! How about it? I know I could sure use some help in our two boat pits especially with a bum knee. I gave up calling you long ago....Sept 6-7 at Electric City {Banks} and Sept 20-21 at Moses Lake. Ask Jerry, you're missing some great races! JeRk

[ss wannabe]

Thanks for the ideas, guys. I like the concept of no water at idle, and the separate pickup. I've been liking the jet-hot idea for a while, but my bassetts are new, and i don't want to drop the $$ just yet. Plus, as you all know, these boats draw sheriffs like flies to sh%#. Always checking for water. Valve is a good thought, but not until i do the jet-hot. I've got a drilled thermostat to bring up the temp, and maybe I just need to move the exhaust feed to the relief side of it. That will keep them close to dry, and turn then a nice shade of blue more quickly. Jet-hot here I come. Funny how these things get off track...never thought of my cam like that.
Jerk - I'll get to one of your deals eventually. Seems every time I'm just getting back from a business trip, or just leaving. Probably moving to Sacto area, so I'll be closer to Berryessa, but further from your events. We'll see.
Jerry - Good to hear from you. Hopefully, we'll run into each other more with this move. Mike and I ought to get more chances to get to the lake together, too.

[ssmike]

ss wannabe:
Mike and I ought to get more chances to get to the lake together, too. That's what I'm talking about!! :D
ss-already singing the circle boat blues-mike

[CircleJerk]

Sorry to hear this, maybe when our fame spreads a little and the excitement of a real flat bottom sprint race is not found in the Oregon area, you'll wish you had checked us out. I do realize that not all of us v-drivers want to put our boats or our bodys in harms way and that's cool if that's the case. Its just a shame that a competitive hull such as yours is relagated to short bursts of speed and hard corners at V-drive campouts and such. Maybe someday before I kick the bucket, I'll see it challenge our fast Nostalgic SS class. I know a plaque isnt much reward but at the last race, one boat from Portland won $200 in a cash dash, maybe that would help pay the gas bill?!Second got $100 and third and fourth got $50! Good luck with the plumbing, we dont plumb the headers but some of us install the plumbing for the sheriff and leave the water off! Jerk

[ss wannabe]

Great outing this morning...
I took out the lines that were feeding the headers under pressure (below the thermostat) and tee'd off my dump on each side to the headers with restrictor jets. Same set-up as I used to have, only now I have the drilled thermostat which restricts flow through the motor. Result- engine idles great (no more raw water coming out the pipes) and I'm seeing 160-180 degrees, depending on how hard I'm pushing it. Couldn't be happier right now. Plus, I made some changes in my cav plate set-up, and things are much better.
Jerk - looking forward to seeing an event sometime (besides on video, of course), just not sure when. I'm still a bit leary of running my paper-thin 19-year old hull hard enough to keep up with the real racers, but I'd sure like to show sometime.

[CircleJerk]

Glad to hear it. At least you able to run. I'm stuck or landlocked with a bum knee, but I did work on the cav plate. Had the Blonde adjusting while I held the straight edge! Perfect! Then I called around and found two vintage Laveys in need of new homes, one in Calif and the other in North Carolina. Then the call to a living legend who ran the Zip and Zap boats. After a brief talk, I discovered we set the plate wrong for Laveys! Seems there are two trains of thought, one with a gull and one without. Both were champions and still are in my mind. Oh well, at least you handled the plumbing problem. Its a relieve when improvement is the result of hard work. By the way, paper chip hulls are welcome and I cant feel sorry for you since all our boats are well into their twentys or thirtys!!! They are in much worse shape than yours: brittle and already cracked! And we race less in a day than you would at the River!!!! Only 4 1/2 miles each day with a little testing! And its safer with the emergency personel plus expert tuner and tech people in our large pits... So, Argue that!!! Like a famous Oregonian states: Nostalgic Circle racing,,,The most fun you can have with your clothes on! Now why do you suppose he'd say that? smile_sp

[Sho Nuff]

Are your headers going to blue form the heat at idle?

[Snowboat]

I thought I had finally made it to the point where most of my problems were fixed and now I've gotta start worrying about reversion. I just turn off a valve when I slow down, and turn it on, when I want to go above 2500. No water in the oil and a light mist at WOT. What do Superdave013 and Bgman203 mean by toating some exhaust valves?
[ August 25, 2003, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: Snowboat ]

[Sangster]

Snowboat:
I thought I had finally made it to the point where most of my problems were fixed and now I've gotta start worrying about reversion. I just turn off a valve when I slow down, and turn it on, when I want to go above 2500. No water in the oil and a light mist at WOT. What do Superdave013 and Bgman203 mean by toating some exhaust valves? Q & A....To much water in the pipes & some will get sucked into the Exhaust valves which will Crystalize them in a heartbeat.... :cool:

[Snowboat]

Sangster, are saying that you drop a valve with reversion, can't have that. Engines cost too much if you crater them so they explode. I don't lose very many r's with my slipins. If I cut the water off completely, will my pipes look like Gofast's. Its too late to Jetcoat. I understand that should only be done when the headers are new.

[1980SANGERV-DRIVE]

I had the same problem with my JET BOAT sorry but I had insanity for 20 years,and now I have a v-drive (baby steps), anyway I put a valve going to the headers that is regulated by pressure not to open until 90 psi, works great, no more problems since and it is anidozed and threaded to fit most applications. Comes in assorted colors. Hope this helps

[GofastRacer]

Snowboat:
Sangster, are saying that you drop a valve with reversion, can't have that. Engines cost too much if you crater them so they explode. I don't lose very many r's with my slipins. If I cut the water off completely, will my pipes look like Gofast's. Its too late to Jetcoat. I understand that should only be done when the headers are new. If you have chrome headers and run them dry with baffles, the will look like mine, especially if you happen to run lean enough to fry eggs at the end of the collectors!. :D This coming winter they are heading over to Jet-Hot, they will never see water again!!!.. wink :D