Melting Intercoolers

[KNOT-RIGHT]

Anyone ever melt there core Please tell me.
I would also like to know why you think it occured.
Even if it happend to your friend. Please explain.
All opinions Please.
Engine builders are welcome also!
Please Respond.
Thanks in advance
Gerry

[blownzoom440]

melted as in a cooling tube split open or liquified the core like a torch would.any pics?

[Daytona100]

Anyone ever melt there core Please tell me.
I would also like to know why you think it occured.
Even if it happend to your friend. Please explain.
All opinions Please.
Engine builders are welcome also!
Please Respond.
Thanks in advance
Gerry
PM rocket man I think he,s melted a couple.

[KNOT-RIGHT]

Liquified like a torch.
Interseting on the Rocketman senerio.
I wonder if he was using the PSI,s at the time.
I have a pretty good idea of how it occurs just wondering about other thoughts.
Thanks for the replies
Gerry

[BradZ]

Are you running it dry at idle? I have plumbed mine off the sea pump rather than the force feed some riggers will do. Pretty hard to melt when filled with cool water.

[g935]

I was at Whipple last year inquiring about their intercoolers. They showed me about a dozen melted cores. I don't remember what they said about why it happened. They sure looked like they got hot. They use that cupronickel (spelling?) core. Real expensive. Sorry, that's all I know. You might call them and ask for Dustin. He'll tell you.
Geoff

[KNOT-RIGHT]

I was at Whipple last year inquiring about their intercoolers. They showed me about a dozen melted cores. I don't remember what they said about why it happened. They sure looked like they got hot. They use that cupronickel (spelling?) core. Real expensive. Sorry, that's all I know. You might call them and ask for Dustin. He'll tell you.
Geoff
Yes I run the copper cores from whipple. I have not had problem with mooneys
but stepping up to PSI,s and I have neen warned.
Currently running a force fed system but considering dedicating a water pump stage just for the chillers.
Just trying to prevent a barbecue.

[DCBob]

Yes I run the copper cores from whipple. I have not had problem with mooneys
but stepping up to PSI,s and I have neen warned.
Currently running a force fed system but considering dedicating a water pump stage just for the chillers.
Just trying to prevent a barbecue.
I bought Rocketmans old deal last year. He had told me he melted down a cooler, but I don't remember exactly what set-up he was running at the time. We are currently running a Whipple cooler under a 980 Whipple blower w/force fed water. So far all is well. We have approx 20 hrs on the motor and no problems yet. The blower does run extremely hot though (can't hold your hand on it while underway) We don't know if that's normal or not for that blower and need to look further into it. What were you warned about w/the PSIs?

[Havasu47]

We force feed every innercooler we have ever used and never melted one????

[KNOT-RIGHT]

I bought Rocketmans old deal last year. He had told me he melted down a cooler, but I don't remember exactly what set-up he was running at the time. We are currently running a Whipple cooler under a 980 Whipple blower w/force fed water. So far all is well. We have approx 20 hrs on the motor and no problems yet. The blower does run extremely hot though (can't hold your hand on it while underway) We don't know if that's normal or not for that blower and need to look further into it. What were you warned about w/the PSIs?
I was Warned of core melting. At Idle the PSI is going to want to make boost
Just like your R980. These things are overdriven like ya read about!
After discussing this with PSI. The cause is fuel starvation causing a
Lean condition firing a controlled fire above the intercooler.
Carburators are the biggest offenders Must run atleast .150 needle and seats
maybe even dual needle and seats.
The blower actually can suck the bowls dry.
Some of the big dog engine guys bandaid this by building a plate which
deflects the pie shape discharge from coming in direct contact with the
fins on the chiller. The fire if created will not burn the chiller.
This is not correcting the true problem.
If you look at the new 5.0 whipples they have incorporated a discharge
bleed off on the rear of the charger. This will bleed off the excessive
pressure at low engine speed high vacuum. Pretty Slick!

[KNOT-RIGHT]

. He had told me he melted down a cooler, but I don't remember exactly what set-up he was running at the time.
I am curious.

[DCBob]

I am curious.
I'll contact Rockit's motor man and see if I can get the the skinny on what happened and under what conditions and check back w/ya

[KNOT-RIGHT]

Cool man!
I am curious as to if in fact that if you feed the intercooler
with a dedicated stage from the seapump perhaps this causes
the fuel to condence and possibly ignite. This However crosses
Rogers theory.

[Willis]

I was Warned of core melting. At Idle the PSI is going to want to make boost
Just like your R980. These things are overdriven like ya read about!
After discussing this with PSI. The cause is fuel starvation causing a
Lean condition firing a controlled fire above the intercooler.
Carburators are the biggest offenders Must run atleast .150 needle and seats
maybe even dual needle and seats.
The blower actually can suck the bowls dry.
Some of the big dog engine guys bandaid this by building a plate which
deflects the pie shape discharge from coming in direct contact with the
fins on the chiller. The fire if created will not burn the chiller.
This is not correcting the true problem.
If you look at the new 5.0 whipples they have incorporated a discharge
bleed off on the rear of the charger. This will bleed off the excessive
pressure at low engine speed high vacuum. Pretty Slick!
January 4, 2007
Hello People, been reading these post and can’t figure why you need an “INTER COOLER” for a PSI Supercharger.
:messedup:
I ran a PSI in a drag boat and the supercharger intake temp under load is lower temp than at the starting line by a 100 degrees.
Why do you need a cooler??

[DCBob]

January 4, 2007
Hello People, been reading these post and can’t figure why you need an “INTER COOLER” for a PSI Supercharger.
:messedup:
I ran a PSI in a drag boat and the supercharger intake temp under load is lower temp than at the starting line by a 100 degrees.
Why do you need a cooler??
Don't know for sure, but I'm not a gear head. I had heard the Whipple 980/PSI ran cooler than a roots blower. Since the cooler was already on the boat when I bought it I called Dustin @ Whipple and asked him. He said leave it on, it was good for 80-100 hp gain under the right conditions. I figured that was right out of the horses mouth so thats the way we're running it. Oh yeah, it looks really cool also:)

[Deano]

sounds like a good time to throw all that primitive carb stuff away and go efi?:D

[Deano]

January 4, 2007
I ran a PSI in a drag boat and the supercharger intake temp under load is lower temp than at the starting line by a 100 degrees.
are you talking about the air before it goes into the blower? Maybe the heat from it sitting there at idle on the line is warming up the air around the intake and when you are under way the hot air is pushed away due to wind? How are your temps under pressure at the line and underway? Probably the other way around. Sounds like a good reason to have a dedicated pump/line to an intercooler rather than only force feed underway. Just me thinking out loud.

[KNOT-RIGHT]

The application here is offshore racing the motor
is subjected to WFO for sustained periods.
The cooler the forced induction the better.
I guess if I were to choose which blower to run no intercooler
it would be the screw compressor.
But a Screw compressor with a intercooler is the best choice.
Second to non other then Turbos.:D

[HP350SC]

Rock-it Man was running big cu. in.(I think 598) with carbs, the 3.3's and lots of boost. About 20 lbs. I believe.

[HP350SC]

Running the cooler off a pump or pickup wouldn't make much difference as far as melting the cooler IMHO.
There was plenty of water flowing when Wayne was testing for a max effort run.
At 20ish lbs. boost, all that mixture may be "backing up" due to inadequate exhaust flow, it only takes a hot spot, or even intake valve open at wrong time due to float or cam overlap.

[Willis]

are you talking about the air before it goes into the blower? .
:messedup:
No!
I'm talking about the tempreture in the manifold. We run a data box and after the run read the data to help the tune up.
The blower temp at idle is around 250-270 and down the track it reads 125-140
Willis

[KNOT-RIGHT]

:messedup:
No!
I'm talking about the tempreture in the manifold. We run a data box and after the run read the data to help the tune up.
The blower temp at idle is around 250-270 and down the track it reads 125-140
Willis
This is what Roger at PSI stated. The PSI will generate heat at idle.
The screw compressor design aids to this. That is why Whipple developed the
ports on the 5.0 to releave this.

[Whipple Charged]

It takes over 2000 deg F to melt cupronickel intercoolers. This has happened on both roots and screw, but it happens to the screw more. This happens when there is sometype of engine misfire and a flame comes up into the intake and lights the fuel coming from the sc. The reason the screw compressor makes it worse is that it's coming out at a high velocity in a concentrated area, and typically it's mixed with enough air to help it light. This air and fuel is compressed together and typically has a pretty close air to fuel ratio that it burns realitively easy. A roots displaces air in many random area's (except for the triangle port style blowers), and the air/fuel is not compressed or mixed very well together, making it harder to light. When you light the air fuel charge coming out of the compressor, it's like a blow torch. Whats amazing is that the engines still run, not good, but in some applications, you can't feel the motor miss a bit.
Now what everybody misses is that the engine has to continue to run to burn the intercooler. A back fire, a misfire, etc. for a short burst will not burn or melt the cores. It has to sustain 2000 deg F for a minimum of 5 seconds before it starts to fatigue. Backfires, misfires, if severe enough, cause the motor to die and therefore the fuel injection or carburation stops adding fuel, and the fire can't burn anymore so you'll have a flash fire that quickly subsides. Water in the intercooler HAS NOTHING to do with burning the core, again, they can take 2000deg F.
It's not the discharge temp of the SC, although the hotter the temp, the more likelyhood of the fuel being lit. The cases, rotors, etc. are aluminum and melt at over half the temp of cupronickel. If the discharge temp was hot enough to melt, the rotors and case would be liquid metal!
Some of the things I've seen do this, and it's most common and very high hp, massive camshafted engines. One application had a steel braided fuel line run about 1" over the coil. Over time, this got closer and closer until it touched, whether somebody was working on the boat, or whatever. Once that happenned, boat was cruising in a poker run and it lit off, showed no signs before and the motor didn't die until it was flooded with water.
Thanks,
Dustin

[Unchained]

Whoa, I had no idea that there could actually be fire above the intercooler.
So the foolproff solution is to always inject the fuel below the intercooler, whether it be EFI or MFI.
The 1970's called, they want their carburetors back. :D