Toll Road Accident Pictures

[H20Advantage]

A while back there were a couple of threads where someone had pictures of the Toll Road accident involving the porsche and teenage girl. One thread was deleted but another popped up. These pics were posted and emailed all over the internet.
I know some on here knew the girl and family. In todays OC Register there is an article about the family suing the CHP for the release of those pictures that made it to the web:
Tuesday, January 9, 2007
Lasting images
Parents fight to clear the Internet of photos taken of their daughter after she was killed in a car crash.
By GREG HARDESTY
The Orange County Register
LADERA RANCH – Lesli Catsouras hasn't opened her e-mails in weeks.
Her husband, Christos, dreads having to use the Internet – fearful of what he accidentally may see.
They have banned their daughters – ages 15, 13 and 8 – from going online.
Losing oldest daughter Nikki, 18, in a car crash on Halloween has been hard enough on the Catsouras family.
Now, their heartache is compounded by outrage.
Graphic accident-scene photos, including close-up shots of Nikki, who suffered massive head trauma, have been leaked onto the Internet.
The images have turned up on hundreds of Web sites and in countless chat rooms and e-mails – from Australia to Italy. The photos often are accompanied by debates about the merits of the images, with many viewers even vilifying the dead teen.
"We're still just starting to deal with Nikki's death, and now this," said Christos Catsouras, 43. "People are sick."
The family blames the leak on the California Highway Patrol, the agency that is investigating the crash. The family has filed a claim against the state as a precursor to a civil lawsuit. The CHP is investigating.
As they continue to grieve, members of the Catsouras family also find themselves struggling to restore some dignity to Nikki's memory – and facing seemingly insurmountable odds to establish some decency in the sometimes insidious, unforgiving grip of the Internet.
The photos are so pervasive, Nikki's 15-year-old sister has stopped going to school out of fear of opening her locker and seeing a photo of her dead sister. She now is being home schooled.
A 12-year-old neighbor who accidentally saw the images is seeing a counselor, according to Christos Catsouras.
Some people have anonymously sent cruel, taunting e-mails to Nikki's relatives – including one to her father that read, "From Dead Girl Walking: Woo Hoo Daddy, I'm Alive."
CHALLENGE
A CHP official in Sacramento said the agency cannot discuss the claim filed by the Catsouras family and said the issue of the leaked images remains under investigation.
"We're trying to find out if these are our photos and, if they are, how they were made public," CHP spokesman Tom Marshall said.
Accident-scene photos are meant only for investigative purposes. CHP policy and the state vehicle code forbid them from being distributed publicly.
The CHP is sending notices to operators of Web sites that have posted the images, demanding that they immediately be taken down.
"We certainly do feel sorry for the family," Marshall said.
The Catsouras family has hired a company, Reputation Defender, also to demand that Web site operators remove the offending pictures.
The Catsouras family may face an uphill battle in trying to control use of the pictures on the Internet, said Brian Daucher, a civil litigator and partner with the Costa Mesa office of Sheppard Mullin Richter & Hampton who specializes in Internet-related litigation.
"Unfortunately, the law is not always great at regulating human decency," said Daucher, who is not involved in the Catsouras case.
Rights that protect a living person against defamation or invasion of privacy don't necessarily extend past death, Daucher said.
The pictures of Nikki's body also have turned up in at least one class for DUI offenders in Orange County, even though alcohol did not play a factor in the 1:45 p.m. accident, according to the CHP.
Toxicological and autopsy reports are pending, the coroner said.
Mothers Against Drunk Driving strongly opposes the use of gory or graphic images.
"The gore factor doesn't necessarily translate to behavioral changes," said Gail Butler, executive director of the Orange County chapter of MADD. "It would be nice if things were that easy."
One Internet expert theorized about why people would view and circulate such images.
"In the online world, a person can be totally disconnected from the consequences of their actions," said Nancy Willard, executive director of the Center for Safe and Responsible Internet Use in Eugene, Ore.
"They can have no empathy. They can't see the harm being done."
FREE SPIRIT
By all accounts, Nikki was not the rich, spoiled partygoer who got drunk and crashed a Porsche given to her by her father – a fiction circulating online.
"She was a sweet, wonderful girl who never hurt anyone," said her mother, Lesli Catsouras.
Nikki had just started taking classes at Saddleback College in Mission Viejo. She had a passion for photography.
Nikki actually loved thrift stores and wanted to buy a beat-up '80s car, Johnson said.
In its claim, the Catsouras family cites emotional distress, loss of earnings and loss of consortium and seeks punitive damages, said attorney Tyler D. Offenhauser of Bremer Whyte Brown & O'Meara in Newport Beach.
"These images were posted solely for their 'shock and awe' value, without any consideration whatsoever for the feelings of the family," Offenhauser said. The 911 calls also are circulating online, he said.
The Catsouras family found out about the photos a few days after Nikki's funeral.
One of her cousins, Zoe, 19, got a text message on her cell phone.
When she opened it, she saw thumbnail images of the accident scene – one of Nikki shown slumped over and still strapped into the driver's seat, most of her head and face missing – and threw her phone down in shock.
The night before she died, Nikki had gotten into an argument with her father about "typical teenager stuff," Christos Catsouras said.
He disciplined her by taking away the keys to her car.
Nikki's mother said her daughter wasn't feeling well Oct. 31. She had a 3 p.m. appointment to see a doctor.
Christos Catsouras had lunch at home that day. He works five minutes away at a real estate office.
He recalled telling Nikki before he went back to the office that he loved her. She blew him a kiss and flashed him a peace sign.
After he left, Nikki walked to a key rack in the house and took the keys to her father's $150,000 Porsche – which Nikki had never driven, her father said.
The keys were hanging where they always were, with all the others.
Lesli Catsouras heard the garage door open and the car leave and called her husband, who called 911. He immediately drove around looking for her.
Nikki had taken off down the Eastern (241) Toll Road in his black 911 Carrera.
As she tried to pass a car that was going about 70 mph, she clipped it and lost control of the Porsche, the CHP said.
She slammed into a toll-booth building at Alton Parkway in Lake Forest.
Christos Catsouras' mind continually goes back to his last moments with his daughter.
Every day, he said, he kisses his daughters goodbye.
That day, he didn't kiss Nikki. In an interview, his eyes welled up. He fell silent.
Lesli Catsouras sat next to him, staring blankly ahead, her arms tightly crossed.
"She was our child," she said.
Contact the writer: 949-553-2915 or ghardesty@ocregister.com 949-553-2915 or ghardesty@ocregister.com

[YeLLowBoaT]

I don't know, I think every teen-ager needs to see the photos and get the story behind them.

[C-2]

I don't know, I think every teen-ager needs to see the photos and get the story behind them.
My father died in an auto accident - was I supposed to learn something from it? Would photos have helped?
Gimmie a break - if that was your daughter, you'd better believe you would be in a world of hurt.
I hope they find the dirtbag who releasesd the photos and fire his ass.

[H20Advantage]

I saw the email with all the pics and thought somebody should not have released them but as far as a lawsuit I don't know.
There are first amendment rights about such things. Did someone violate an internal policy...maybe. Is it in poor taste...possibly to some but not to others.
What if the news media were there and shot those pics with a zoom lense and posted them would you be able to sue for that?
Just my thoughts and opinion.

[YeLLowBoaT]

my point was that teenagers need to see what happends when a 16 year old girl, steals her dad's car, gets drunk and goes over a 100mph.

[Schiada76]

If you give them money though all the pain will disappear.

[riverbound]

my point was that teenagers need to see what happends when a 16 year old girl, steals her dad's car, gets drunk and goes over a 100mph.
According to the article, alchohol did not play a factor in this accident. Granted she still stole the car and drove recklessly (as all of us have done at one point in time).

[BADBLOWN572]

According to the article, alchohol did not play a factor in this accident. Granted she still stole the car and drove recklessly (as all of us have done at one point in time).
Never stole my parent's cars. They always handed over the keys. ;) :D

[msc5195]

Are they for certain that the CHP leaked the photos? I know from being in the wrecker bussiness that most of the wrecker drivers have cameras. Many rubber necking motorist carry around cameras and they dont think twice about snapping pics of a mangeled wreck or dead body. One of my worst cases was when a DUI driver struck the back of roll back wrecker killing the wrecker driver who was standing behind it. As his disenigrated body lay splattered across the southbound lanes of I-95. His head, neck and left shoulder was in one piece. His waist and mangled legs were in another piece. Everything in between was ground up like hamburger meat. There were people with cameras and video cameras all over the place. One women had her video camera about 3 ft from the severed head getting a close up. Now you may ask why wasnt this covered up? Well I was the 4th vehicle to stop and the police, fire & EMTs were about 30 miles away.
Anyway, I hope they have the proof that the CHP leaked the photos or they may be waisting their time and money.

[blown65]

If you give them money though all the pain will disappear.
Doing nothing will make the police realize thier wrong?

[GHT]

I don't know, I think every teen-ager needs to see the photos and get the story behind them.
There is some truth in your statement and I wish everyone that would view it would view it the way you stated they should.
Unforturnatly most people look at it for the "gore" factor as I did. Now that I read the story it almost makes me feel guilty for viewing the pics...
Just a thought. Prayers go out to the family.

[Beer-30]

I lost an uncle to a car accident that was not his fault. A lady ran a stop sign, accidentally and not under the influence, and T-boned him. After all was said and done, there were no lawsuits - as there was no intention or gross neglegence. We all agreed that getting a bunch of money would not bring him back, and would only cause another family more grief.
However, the investigation becomes public knowledge and pictures always end up in the newspaper or on TV. If any paperwork or picture can scare just one person into driving more responsibly, then it is a positive thing. If this crash saves one teenager from doing a similar thing, then this girl did not die in vain.
I agree that it is wrong that the really gory photos are being sent to the family in email and text. That is just tasteless. But that is easy enough to handle, as the email addresses and phone owners can be tracked and punished.
If the pics are public knowledge, there is really no crime. If a passerby, or someone at the scene (that is not involved in the investigation) posts pics, it is no different than a picture of a naked person on a deckboat from any lake being posted. If you take a picture, it is yours to do with as you please.
It could have been anyone around who took the photo(s). It could very well have been from the toll-booth operator's camera phone, eh?

[riverbound]

Never stole my parent's cars. They always handed over the keys. ;) :D
Same here....my parents taught me how to drive. once I showed them I could handle it.... I was welcome to any car they own.

[wedge44]

I don't understand MADD not wanting pictures shown.....I mean they take totally destroyed cars around too high schools around Prom time to show the kids the effects of Drunk Driving.....why not slip a body into the car....it would be much more effective, .........especially when the body starts talking to them ....good make-up...studio type stuff:D :D :D

[Chubby4Life]

According to the article, alchohol did not play a factor in this accident. Granted she still stole the car and drove recklessly (as all of us have done at one point in time).
At the time, every article out about this referenced alcohol consumption.

[Wet Dream]

This is complete crap. Another lawsuit because our society allows it to happen. Someone should tell the family "Welcome to the media of today, DEAL WITH IT". By allowing a lawsuit like this opens the doors for every single f'ing jackass that doesn't want his or her pic on the internet. This isn't about the girl dying. I truly feel for the family, as I would any family. I very seriously doubt that someone took those photos and "released" them. They got leaked somehow. The person that took the photos did not download them right to the internet. Does every officer have thier own digital camera assigned to them, one per car, so many per shift? So the photos get loaded into the file pertaining to the accident, now how many people have access to that? Joe see it, fowards to his bother, and swears not to let anyone see it. Someone hacks his acct, or his roommate sees it and forwards it to someone else, and on and on. Most of the people forgot about this wreck and moved on. Way to go dad, bring it all back.

[Sleek-Jet]

Aren't accident investigations public record?? I mean, they sometimes are a little difficult to come by, but file the right paperwork an you'd be supprised at what kind of pictures and information you can come up with.
Basic human decency though, says not to go showing those pictures around to anyone...
Maybe not the case with auto accidents, but NTSB stuff is just a phone call and AMEX number away.

[Schiada76]

Doing nothing will make the police realize thier wrong?
Then demand DISCIPLINARY action if indeed it was the CHP's fault.
Don't demand lotto winnings.:mad:

[C-2]

Disciplinary action for a violation of public law? Does anybody really think these people are not emotionally affected by this violation?
The release of the photos was malicious and exploitive. The CHP and the person responsible are on the hook...and rightfully so.
What other recourse do they have?

[Silver]

Come 'on people! The debate could go on forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bottom line!!!!! That's someone's daughter, sister!
Her parent's have every right to do as they wish! Just like you would if that was your own!
Do them a favor....help them get rid of the pic's! Don't look for them!
GOD BLESS THE WHOLE FAMILY!

[Schiada76]

Disciplinary action for a violation of public law? Does anybody really think these people are not emotionally affected by this violation?
The release of the photos was malicious and exploitive. The CHP and the person responsible are on the hook...and rightfully so.
What other recourse do they have?
So you have evidence the CHP illegally released the photos?

[OCMerrill]

If you give them money though all the pain will disappear.
This is it exactly. Recovering all family dignity by suing an agency that tax payers fund. Shifting the blame mentally.
I am very sorry for her tragic death and the pictures are very horrific. I also say there was more to this than just a driving error. I will leave it at that.
I will also say that I do believe many discussions about these pics will change the way families think about thier autos. Especially ones capable of 150+ mph.
I know my kids will not be able to locate keys to my cars just because of this very issue.
My god speed this girl.

[Devil's Advocate]

I saw those pics when some ahole came on here and posted them. They were horribly disturbing and graphic. There is nothing to be gained or learned from viewing those pics and is just so distasteful that someone would want to post something like that.:mad: That teenage girl made a stupid and unfortunately fatal mistake as often happens with teens because of their lack of maturity, wisdom and life experience to do differently. But that family has to suffer through enough pain and anguish and there is absolutely no need to have to deal with the very intimate and disturbing pics of their young daughter's death that were plastered on the internet. They have every right to be upset and angry IMO.

[lilrick]

....so, anybody gonna post the pics??

[Beer-30]

So you have evidence the CHP illegally released the photos?
Well, of course. It HAS to be them. They were there and up, close, personal.
Oh. Wait. There was also a coroner or two that takes pictures of their own. Oh, and the occasional tow driver (as someone else mentioned). And, I am quite certain the media responded - TV, newspaper, radio - all of which would take photos (maybe not the radio). But, there was also medical personnel that kept the scene until the coroner got there. Probably a deputy or two and the passing city cop stopped to help - also with a personal camera or two. I am sure there was a fireman or two or three. Any of which could have had a camera / or phone with camera in it.
The occasional tourist that stopped at the scene to assist - with camera in hand. Previously mentioned toll-booth personnel. Cal-trans to check the road / and take pics doing same.
Hmmm.

[C-2]

So you have evidence the CHP illegally released the photos?
No....but my wild guess would be maybe that's why a lawsuit is about to be filed? So they will have the legal tools to find out who, what, where, when and why.
Do you really think CHP is going to fess up to one of their officers fawking up like that? Maybe, but unlikely.

[Racer277]

If they win the lawsuit, can we charge them for repairs and lost revenue at the toll booth?
It was their daughter that focked up, right?

[Beer-30]

If she was found to be at fault (and I don't see how she couldn't), their insurance should cover that. However, one could assume that Dad didn't have her on the policy for the Porsche. Maybe, but doubtful.

[little rowe boat]

I don't think the question is who is at fault for the accident that killed this girl but who is at fault for releasing the photos of the girl. If it takes a lawsuit to figure that out then so be it. The family is probably going through more grief than can be imagined, then to have these photos show up and add to it is just not right.

[Misogynist]

I saw those pics when some ahole came on here and posted them. They were horribly disturbing and graphic. There is nothing to be gained or learned from viewing those pics and is just so distasteful that someone would want to post something like that.:mad: That teenage girl made a stupid and unfortunately fatal mistake as often happens with teens because of their lack of maturity, wisdom and life experience to do differently. But that family has to suffer through enough pain and anguish and there is absolutely no need to have to deal with the very intimate and disturbing pics of their young daughter's death that were plastered on the internet. They have every right to be upset and angry IMO.
What about my constitutional right to view gore and porno?.... I need to sue someone so I can see more gore......... :devil: ... ;)

[vdrivenman]

it is a free world to take and release photos or videos.
who gives a shit who took them or released them. it is done!
get over it !
you don't have to file a multi million dollar law suit to start or get an investigation going.
a simple written affidavit is sufficent $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[dmontzsta]

Those photos were pretty brutal and I personally wish I would have never looked. The images are stuck in my head forever now and I cannot get rid of them, which I am sure most of you feel that way.

[SHOTKALLIN]

maybe daddy wants a new porshe?:idea:

[YeLLowBoaT]

maybe dad got a phone call from a abulance chaser...

[C-2]

Without having the facts, we are all guessing.
I didn't have any desire to view the photos, but was told by somebody who did that they appeared to be LEO photos, and not some rogue photographer. Even if it was a rogue photographer, who was in charge of the accident scene?
It sucks, but the reality is all emergency personnel responding to the accident were just doing their jobs, it was only another fatal accident investigation for them - perhaps just another day at the office.
I can tell you first-hand, that it's an extremely impersonable experience to go thru. You just lost your closest relative, and the process treats you like a day at the DMV. People yelling out numbers, putting you on hold while they munch on their lunch, looking for your relative..check back later, I have another call. Just another name to them. It's a reality we all have to deal with.
So my only point is, I guess, is to have some fawking decency. Nobody deserves to see pictures of their deceased child/spouse/father on the net.
And yes, somebody should be held accountible.

[Hallett19]

it is a free world to take and release photos or videos.
who gives a shit who took them or released them. it is done!
get over it !
Amen, its sad it happened, I feel terrible for the family. There are so many facets to this argument, should the girl have taken the car? Should she have been speeding? Is it 100% her fault that she is where she is now? Could this have been avoided? Everything is said and done but the bottom line is, defamation takes place every day in so many sick and twisted ways. If pictures of a naked girl or a dead body on the internet or a celebrity being accused of touching little kids or being gay..... If these people are able to sue the CHP for maybe leaking these photos it will open up a whole forum for every person who thinks they might have been done wrong due to the internet, put a lawsuit on everyone who they think was involved. As an example, does this mean every Iraqi person can sue for every photo of a dead body that shows up on the net?
It happens every day and it sucks, but live with it.

[SHOTKALLIN]

Without having the facts, we are all guessing.
I didn't have any desire to view the photos, but was told by somebody who did that they appeared to be LEO photos, and not some rogue photographer. Even if it was a rogue photographer, who was in charge of the accident scene?
It sucks, but the reality is all emergency personnel responding to the accident were just doing their jobs, it was only another fatal accident investigation for them - perhaps just another day at the office.
I can tell you first-hand, that it's an extremely impersonable experience to go thru. You just lost your closest relative, and the process treats you like a day at the DMV. People yelling out numbers, putting you on hold while they munch on their lunch, looking for your relative..check back later, I have another call. Just another name to them. It's a reality we all have to deal with.
So my only point is, I guess, is to have some fawking decency. Nobody deserves to see pictures of their deceased child/spouse/father on the net.
And yes, somebody should be held accountible.
i agree that it is wrong.

[SHOTKALLIN]

I also think there are some unrully kids out there that may think twice about pulling a stunt like this after seeing the pics. At least I hope.

[HM]

What about my constitutional right to view gore and porno?.... I need to sue someone so I can see more gore......... :devil: ... ;)
You sick bastard... you want to see more Al Gore in Porno? :eek: :) :eek:

[little rowe boat]

it was only another fatal accident investigation for them - perhaps just another day at the office.
I can tell you this, it is NEVER just another fatal accident investigation and it makes for a shitty day at the office.
Fatalities, especially when they are young people tend to hit close to home and always brings sadness, because you know this person that has died has someone somewhere that loves them.

[Schiada76]

No....but my wild guess would be maybe that's why a lawsuit is about to be filed? So they will have the legal tools to find out who, what, where, when and why.
Do you really think CHP is going to fess up to one of their officers fawking up like that? Maybe, but unlikely.
Well to believe that you have to believe that people actually file lawsuits based on fact.:D :D
The TRUTH is most lawsuits are filed based on the "lets try to win the lotto syndrome".

[Schiada76]

Without having the facts, we are all guessing.
I didn't have any desire to view the photos, but was told by somebody who did that they appeared to be LEO photos, and not some rogue photographer. Even if it was a rogue photographer, who was in charge of the accident scene?
It sucks, but the reality is all emergency personnel responding to the accident were just doing their jobs, it was only another fatal accident investigation for them - perhaps just another day at the office.
I can tell you first-hand, that it's an extremely impersonable experience to go thru. You just lost your closest relative, and the process treats you like a day at the DMV. People yelling out numbers, putting you on hold while they munch on their lunch, looking for your relative..check back later, I have another call. Just another name to them. It's a reality we all have to deal with.
So my only point is, I guess, is to have some fawking decency. Nobody deserves to see pictures of their deceased child/spouse/father on the net.
And yes, somebody should be held accountible.
So the pictures must have a little LEO bug down in the corner? How the hell do they "look" like LEO photos??????????
"Somebody" must be held accountable??? What if they were taken by media or a freelance photog? Are you going to "hold them accountable"?
I'll tell who needs to be held accountable her for driving like that and her father for letting her drive a very very high performance vehicle without proper training. How about that for accountability?

[C-2]

So the pictures must have a little LEO bug down in the corner? How the hell do they "look" like LEO photos??????????
"Somebody" must be held accountable??? What if they were taken by media or a freelance photog? Are you going to "hold them accountable"?
I'll tell who needs to be held accountable her for driving like that and her father for letting her drive a very very high performance vehicle without proper training. How about that for accountability?
We can "wutif", "likwen" and "yabbut" all day long, it's all speculation. I think we agree on that?
Too me the issue is simple and it boils down to one question.....would you care if that was your daughter? You would be cool with it?
BULLSHIT if anybody says yes, and each of you knows it.

[That Guy]

Sometimes the lack of heart that people show is truly startling. Regardless what happened (and any larger social implications such as we are lucky she didn't kill someone else etc.) these people have lost a daughter and some respect is due to them. I also saw some of the photos and they were truly disturbing. I personally don't care what the family does with the lawsuit, we don't know all the facts and I choose to show them some respect in the face of a terrible situation.
Sometimes the luck of the draw sucks because I know there are many of us on here who did some pretty stupid things as kids and were just plain lucky.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

If they win the lawsuit, can we charge them for repairs and lost revenue at the toll booth?
It was their daughter that focked up, right?
The Company that insured the Dad's Porsche will have to pay for any damage done to the toll booth or any other property damage caused by this collision. Yes it was the daughter who was at fault, but being at fault in an accident does not give LE the right to release investigative photos. When this was first discussed on these boards, statement were made by LEO's who are also HB members that the photos clearly came for law enforcement. The subject photos were taken almost immediately after the collision. They were extremely close up and were taken by someone who knew how to take collision scene investigative photo. CHP ??? Fire Dept ??? Coroner ??? regardless all are LE who are bound by City, County and State laws which prohibit release of such materials. I agree that the proceeds from a lawsuit will not bring themlife back of the the victim. However, I also agree that whoever released these photographs to the media, must be punished. I made the mistake of opening the post, here on HB, the displayed a close up of this young girl with more than half of her face missing and showing a portion of her brain missing. I was outraged! If any of you had lost lost your child in such a horrific manner, if you cared about your child at all, you would be devistated. You might want to think about how you would feel if photographs of your child's missing face and brains kept popping up all around you. The release of those photographs was very sick. There are other means in which to teach young people of the dangers of driving irresponsibly other then showing them such photographs. We don't teach our children that guns are dangerous, if not handled properly, by showing them photos of a massive bullit hole in someone's head. We don't teach our children that wild animals are dangerous by showing them photos of person half eaten by a lion or a bear. I guess I shouldn't say we as apparantly some of you believe that this is the proper why to teach children/young people. I disagree. It is my opinion that the subject photographs were taken by, and illegally leaked to the public by someone in LE. Hopefully who ever it was won't make this same mistake again.

[MudPumper]

So where can I see the photos??? Somebody PM me a link. :idea:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

So the pictures must have a little LEO bug down in the corner? How the hell do they "look" like LEO photos??????????
"Somebody" must be held accountable??? What if they were taken by media or a freelance photog? Are you going to "hold them accountable"?
I'll tell who needs to be held accountable her for driving like that and her father for letting her drive a very very high performance vehicle without proper training. How about that for accountability?
The media or a freelance photographer would not have access to a dead body in that condition. I have no doubt that these photos were taken by LE.
If you have children, I feel very sorry for them. When your child errors, falls and breaks his/or leg, or get killed, you will hold yourself accountable. Yea right. Find your heart

[dumbandyoung]

dude these pics are so horrible

[Riomouse911]

Welcome to the digital age my friends.... where we can watch Saddam swing from a rope, watch a reporter tell of heartache while standing in the ashes of Susanne Somer's burned down house in Malibu, take a sneak peek at Britney's hoo hoo, and see images taken on a highway or jobsite of people who died violent death all while sitting in our underwear waiting for the latest tidbit of "hot girl on girl co-ed action" to download.
With almost everyone sporting some type of camera phones, mini-DVD video cameras, and on and on; these images, clips, and you-tube vids will NEVER go away. Yes it stinks for those people or families involved.. yes it's horrible to imagine the last moments of a young person who's life's blood is leaking out on some filthy roadway.. but it happens.
People find these things interesting, and put them out for consumption... and WE let it happen. WE watch the shows that sensationalize it. WE read the stories in the papers or the magazines. WE click the links and view the pics. WE slow down to oogle the wreck on the freeway, and WE even come out of our houses to gawk at the fire truck and ambulance stopped in front of the neighbors house then gossip with the neighbors about whats going on.
So, if you're going to fire up and trumpet the validity of a "lawsuit" thet society (read; taxpayers AKA: you and me) are going to pay for to defend and maybe even to "compensate" the plaintiffs, then look in the mirror and ask yourself if you've added to the "mess" by doing any ONE of the above things even once.
If you have, you're a hypocrite.

[Kurtis500]

Sorry, but NOBODY NEEDED to see those photos. If you feel death is coersive enough to straighten out your kids driving there are plenty of other means to find them yourself. Local police and fire departments will readily share such material under educational settings.

[MudPumper]

Just saw the pics and by looking at them only a few people would have access to the scene of that accident and would be in a position to take the pics.
1)CHP
2)Coroner
3)Fire
4)Tow truck driver
5)Any other LE agency that was assisting. OC Sheriffs/Local PD etc...
That scene would have been sealed off from everybody who was not employed by those agencies. It could have been from any of the above.

[Big Warlock]

It was a tragic accident. However it was the girl's fault. Period! The photo release was in bad judgement. However, our country provides for certain freedoms, which include the freedom for one NOT to look at the photos.
The lawsuit seems pretty typical from the same family that allowed their child access to the keys to the car and apparently did not have the fear of GOD placed in her being if she stole the car etc. etc. (Most of our parents installed a sense of responsibity in us.) I hate people that start this kind of crap. Honestly, expected. Look how they raised their child. And for thiose of you that say I am heartless, so be it! :mad:

[Racer277]

I saw the pics the day they hit the net.
I agree, they were taken by a professional on scene, in one of the facilities you described.
When we (the city, county, or state) pay this family millions, how will this punish the person that originally leaked the pics?
Do you assume that this will have a direct effect on their job status?
I would be surprised if that is the case.
If they can even find the one person responsible.
So, without that, what is the purpose of the millions that will likely be asked for?
The Company that insured the Dad's Porsche will have to pay for any damage done to the toll booth or any other property damage caused by this collision. Yes it was the daughter who was at fault, but being at fault in an accident does not give LE the right to release investigative photos. When this was first discussed on these boards, statement were made by LEO's who are also HB members that the photos clearly came for law enforcement. The subject photos were taken almost immediately after the collision. They were extremely close up and were taken by someone who knew how to take collision scene investigative photo. CHP ??? Fire Dept ??? Coroner ??? regardless all are LE who are bound by City, County and State laws which prohibit release of such materials. I agree that the proceeds from a lawsuit will not bring themlife back of the the victim. However, I also agree that whoever released these photographs to the media, must be punished. I made the mistake of opening the post, here on HB, the displayed a close up of this young girl with more than half of her face missing and showing a portion of her brain missing. I was outraged! If any of you had lost lost your child in such a horrific manner, if you cared about your child at all, you would be devistated. You might want to think about how you would feel if photographs of your child's missing face and brains kept popping up all around you. The release of those photographs was very sick. There are other means in which to teach young people of the dangers of driving irresponsibly other then showing them such photographs. We don't teach our children that guns are dangerous, if not handled properly, by showing them photos of a massive bullit hole in someone's head. We don't teach our children that wild animals are dangerous by showing them photos of person half eaten by a lion or a bear. I guess I shouldn't say we as apparantly some of you believe that this is the proper why to teach children/young people. I disagree. It is my opinion that the subject photographs were taken by, and illegally leaked to the public by someone in LE. Hopefully who ever it was won't make this same mistake again.

[C-2]

PUNITIVE, as in meant to punish, send a message.
A message that we have certain laws in place and certain people are entrusted with responsibilities above and beyond the average citizen. And when a person in that capacity violates that trust - they should be punished.
Millions? maybe not the solution, but find the person responsible (and I'm sure they have or will) might be a big motivation.
I am not a proponent of frivilous lawsuits against government agencies; in fact, the furthest thing from. But sometimes, just sometimes, government agencies don't alkways do a good job of investigating themselves. Thus the need for a lawsuit, how else can an answer be found?
I mean, come on, is everybody really naive enough to think corrputipn and police brutality don't exist? That people are always only looking for the lotto?
Not always.
And for those of you who can't read - this is a debate about the photos, not the cause of the accident/or who was at fault.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

PUNITIVE, as in meant to punish, send a message.
A message that we have certain laws in place and certain people are entrusted with responsibilities above and beyond the average citizen. And when a person in that capacity violates that trust - they should be punished.
Millions? maybe not the solution, but find the person responsible (and I'm sure they have or will) might be a big motivation.
I am not a proponent of frivilous lawsuits against government agencies; in fact, the furthest thing from. But sometimes, just sometimes, government agencies don't alkways do a good job of investigating themselves. Thus the need for a lawsuit, how else can an answer be found?
I mean, come on, is everybody really naive enough to think corrputipn and police brutality don't exist? That people are always only looking for the lotto?
Not always.
And for those of you who can't read - this is a debate about the photos, not the cause of the accident/or who was at fault.
Very well put and I totally agree

[Racer277]

I understand punitive, as in meant to punish.
I guess this will punish the city, county or state for hiring an employee with poor decision making skills.
PUNITIVE, as in meant to punish, send a message.
A message that we have certain laws in place and certain people are entrusted with responsibilities above and beyond the average citizen. And when a person in that capacity violates that trust - they should be punished.
Millions? maybe not the solution, but find the person responsible (and I'm sure they have or will) might be a big motivation.
I am not a proponent of frivilous lawsuits against government agencies; in fact, the furthest thing from. But sometimes, just sometimes, government agencies don't alkways do a good job of investigating themselves. Thus the need for a lawsuit, how else can an answer be found?
I mean, come on, is everybody really naive enough to think corrputipn and police brutality don't exist? That people are always only looking for the lotto?
Not always.
And for those of you who can't read - this is a debate about the photos, not the cause of the accident/or who was at fault.

[Schiada76]

The media or a freelance photographer would not have access to a dead body in that condition. I have no doubt that these photos were taken by LE.
If you have children, I feel very sorry for them. When your child errors, falls and breaks his/or leg, or get killed, you will hold yourself accountable. Yea right. Find your heart
Well then ditto on your having children since you are too dense to get my point.
Let me spell it out
Don't fly off the handle and believe JUST BECAUSE someone filed a lawsuit that their allegations have the slightest bit of honesty, truth or damages to them.
If you're going to demand "accountability" here start with the guy that posted the pics on this site and name him in the suit also. Then start tracking down all the people that posted them on any other site.:D :D Good Luck!

[OCMerrill]

Just saw the pics and by looking at them only a few people would have access to the scene of that accident and would be in a position to take the pics.
1)CHP
2)Coroner
3)Fire
4)Tow truck driver
5)Any other LE agency that was assisting. OC Sheriffs/Local PD etc...
That scene would have been sealed off from everybody who was not employed by those agencies. It could have been from any of the above.
Maybe add...
Toll Road employee
Caltrans
Contracting agency called in to make, repair, verify the tool booth safe for use.
or -
The guy that collects the money out of the dollar bill suction device. I am sure the Toll Roads sent him before anyone else. Possibility of money on the ground:devil: Fawking toll roads.
Who the hell knows. I doubt any laws were broken so this could be just a civil matter.
I nice big fat Lawyer UP will help the family heal by shifting the fact that the parents should have locked up the keys. If anyone on here thinks this is an isolated incodent then your kids are perfect. I most certainly know mine are not based on thefact that I am not.
She was 18? I don't know that the pictures just would not be published anyway? She was not a minor? If I remember correctly.
Very tragic. There is more to the story though and more to come I am sure.

[Rexone]

Come 'on people! The debate could go on forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bottom line!!!!! That's someone's daughter, sister!
Her parent's have every right to do as they wish! Just like you would if that was your own!
Do them a favor....help them get rid of the pic's! Don't look for them!
GOD BLESS THE WHOLE FAMILY!
I saw those pics when some ahole came on here and posted them. They were horribly disturbing and graphic. There is nothing to be gained or learned from viewing those pics and is just so distasteful that someone would want to post something like that.:mad: That teenage girl made a stupid and unfortunately fatal mistake as often happens with teens because of their lack of maturity, wisdom and life experience to do differently. But that family has to suffer through enough pain and anguish and there is absolutely no need to have to deal with the very intimate and disturbing pics of their young daughter's death that were plastered on the internet. They have every right to be upset and angry IMO.
I agree.
I had to remove those pics posted on this forum twice, and I know other mods removed them from other threads as well. Some people have little class. I'm sure if it had been a forum member's daughter we'd have a whole different storyline going on here. I'll just leave it at that.

[Kachina 34]

Just looked at the pictures for the first time and really wish I hadn’t. Good thing she didn’t kill anyone else.

[riverroyal]

person to see that thread,I also responded asking that person,was it YANK MY YODA??? to remove them.I still have that image burned in my mind.This is a boating site,if I wanted to find it on the web Im sure I could.I made the mistake of looking at them,the tread was kinda "set-up".Picture we ok,then BAM,they got horrific.Maybe a lawsuit will help to not let pictures get released.ALSO,the dad had a 100k car,living in south OC.I dont think the suit is money driven

[Wet Dream]

So, dad and the family can't use the f'ing internet because the daughter scattered brain matter all over the highway? And they want to sue? Here's one for the family. How about I sue you? Why, because I was driving that same part of the road when your daughter passed me, in YOUR car. She lost control and I saw blood and carnage all over the place, now I can't drive because it haunts me. How about that for a bullshit lawsuit?

[photo chick]

So, dad and the family can't use the f'ing internet because the daughter scattered brain matter all over the highway? And they want to sue? Here's one for the family. How about I sue you? Why, because I was driving that same part of the road when your daughter passed me, in YOUR car. She lost control and I saw blood and carnage all over the place, now I can't drive because it haunts me. How about that for a bullshit lawsuit?
I like the way you think!:D

[Kilrtoy]

YOU PEOPLE ARE BEYOND AMAZING, ESPECIALLY ALL THE ONES SAY IT HURT THEM TO LOOK AT THESE PICS
YES IM TALKING TO YOU, BLAME YOURSELF....
The thread was clear and stated upfront what the pics were of.
YOU MADE AN ADULT DECISION TO OPEN THEM AND LOOK
NOW YOU WANT TO COMPLAIN THAT IT UPSET YOU TO SEE THESE PICS....
UNFOCKING BELIEVABLE
nobody tricked you into veiwing these pics, but your sick twisted selfs

[lilrick]

Those photos were pretty brutal and I personally wish I would have never looked. The images are stuck in my head forever now and I cannot get rid of them, which I am sure most of you feel that way.
pu$$y.

[OCMerrill]

YOU PEOPLE ARE BEYOND AMAZING, ESPECIALLY ALL THE ONES SAY IT HURT THEM TO LOOK AT THESE PICS
YES IM TALKING TO YOU, BLAME YOURSELF....
The thread was clear and stated upfront what the pics were of.
YOU MADE AN ADULT DECISION TO OPEN THEM AND LOOK
NOW YOU WANT TO COMPLAIN THAT IT UPSET YOU TO SEE THESE PICS....
UNFOCKING BELIEVABLE
nobody tricked you into veiwing these pics, but your sick twisted selfs
Ouch. I do remember the warning. I still don't think anyone was prepared for how bad they were.
I did not even get all the way through them. Couldn't as I have kids.

[Kilrtoy]

Ouch. I do remember the warning. I still don't think anyone was prepared for how bad they were.
I did not even get all the way through them. Couldn't as I have kids.
Not singling you out
but
this link contains pic of a girl who hit a toll both at over 100mph
WARNING: EXTREMELY GRAPHIC PHOTOS
IS SELF EXPLANATORY
its just like when a link states this contains nudity
we open it expecting it to contain some hot naked chick

[BadKachina]

The pictures are bad, but I showed to my 15 year son anyways. I told him that this is what a car can do you to. If you ever think about racing some body on the street, speeding, drinking and driving, etc., this is what could happen. I hope the images haunt him for a while and maybe he'll think twice about how dangerous driving can be.
New Years Eve, while we were at a party, he (my son Andrew) and his buddy tried to take the wifes G 35 coupe out for a drive. They hit my truck backing out of the driveway and put it back. I guess I'm glad in a way they never made it to the street. That car is way too much car for a 15 year old kid who hasn't driven more than a couple of times with us in the car on his permit. I stressed to him that he could have easily gotten out of control and ended up like Nikki.
I have to admit, if they were pics of my kid I wouldn't like it, but what's done is done. Maybe the story will save a life or do somebody else some good..............
As for my son Andrew, he won't be driving again until he pays off the damage he did to him moms car(about 1200.00 dollars).
R.I.P. Nikki

[No Name]

As for my son Andrew, he won't be driving again until he pays off the damage he did to him moms car(about 1200.00 dollars).
Paul, I know all about that crap. Been there done that :( I’ll have to stop by the shop for the full story. I thought I saw Andrew pounding the pavement about a week ago over by your house. Gave him a beep but he just looked at me and kept walking.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Well then ditto on your having children since you are too dense to get my point.
[/QUOTE
And your point was what when you made this statement?
[QUOTE=Schiada76;2331559]I'll tell who needs to be held accountable her for driving like that and her father for letting her drive a very very high performance vehicle without proper training. How about that for accountability?
The legal action discussed in this thread pertains to collision scene photos involving a fataly injured 18 year old girl, and the possible unlawful release of these photos. I apologize for reacting to your accountability assessment.

[Miss Perfect]

The Company that insured the Dad's Porsche will have to pay for any damage done to the toll booth or any other property damage caused by this collision.
This is not necessarily true. The minute a car is stolen it loses all liability insurance. He did call 911 so the insurance company has a huge case for it being considered stolen. The property damage would go back to the driver, who is a minor....so guess who gets the bill? Dear old dad. The most he would get out of the insurance company is a new car.
It's really a horrible tragidy that has no business being plastered all over the internet.

[Wet Dream]

YOU PEOPLE ARE BEYOND AMAZING, ESPECIALLY ALL THE ONES SAY IT HURT THEM TO LOOK AT THESE PICS
YES IM TALKING TO YOU, BLAME YOURSELF....
The thread was clear and stated upfront what the pics were of.
YOU MADE AN ADULT DECISION TO OPEN THEM AND LOOK
NOW YOU WANT TO COMPLAIN THAT IT UPSET YOU TO SEE THESE PICS....
UNFOCKING BELIEVABLE
nobody tricked you into veiwing these pics, but your sick twisted selfs
I'm in agreement 100% with you. Someone (ya, I know who) posted that they were upset with the "asshole" who posted the pics. Really? With the warnings, who is the asshole for opening it?

[Hallett19]

I'm in agreement 100% with you. Someone (ya, I know who) posted that they were upset with the "asshole" who posted the pics. Really? With the warnings, who is the asshole for opening it?
I posted the link to bangedup.com which hosted the photos, I put at least two warnings saying how graphic the photos were. Yes, the photos were very graphic, but like killer and wet dream said, you HAD the option to not open them!! I dont regret it either. OPEN FIRE!!!:lightsabe
My next point is, for those of you who want to go to www.bangedup.com, there are hundreds and hundreds of photos of naked girls, gory bodies, war, accidents, etc. I think the family has the right to ask for the pictures to be taken down from all sites out of respect for their dead daughter, I like that approach, although it probably wont happen. But to file lawsuits against the CHP or whatever agency took the photos to teach them a lesson, for something that happens every day, I doubt it will make a bit of difference. And I hope whatever judge this file falls in front of tosses it and says, "welcome to reality"

[Big Warlock]

So, dad and the family can't use the f'ing internet because the daughter scattered brain matter all over the highway? And they want to sue? Here's one for the family. How about I sue you? Why, because I was driving that same part of the road when your daughter passed me, in YOUR car. She lost control and I saw blood and carnage all over the place, now I can't drive because it haunts me. How about that for a bullshit lawsuit?
Right on!!!

[ULTRA26 # 1]

This is not necessarily true. The minute a car is stolen it loses all liability insurance. He did call 911 so the insurance company has a huge case for it being considered stolen. The property damage would go back to the driver, who is a minor....so guess who gets the bill? Dear old dad. The most he would get out of the insurance company is a new car.
It's really a horrible tragidy that has no business being plastered all over the internet.
The girl had access to the keys which would, in many cases, be considered implied permission. However, it is possible that the young daughter was excluded from coverage on th Porsche which would put the owner of the vehicle on the damage from ths collision. Taken by a member of the household, without permission and stolen in most cases are very different. Generally, LE won't take a stolen vehicle report in these types of cases. In my opinion the only thing that would get the Dad's carrier off of this loss is a signed driver exclusion on his 18 y/o daughter.
Also I would like to refresh smoe people's memories. Initially the scene photos were actually posted in these forums. Not a link with a huge graphic warning as some have descried The warning was very low key. Those photos did not belong on these forums. They were removed by mods within minutes. The posts that kilr and others refer to came later and did carry clear warnings.

[Screemy1]

Come 'on people! The debate could go on forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bottom line!!!!! That's someone's daughter, sister!
Her parent's have every right to do as they wish! Just like you would if that was your own!
Do them a favor....help them get rid of the pic's! Don't look for them!
GOD BLESS THE WHOLE FAMILY!
don't look for them, that does not make them go away. This post just made almost every reader look for them.... I did, just because I was curious as to what this was all about.... Found them on snopes urban legend site.... they looked like your run of the mill accident photos. The CHP has no way of controlling the release of those photos. They could be from the towing co. , insurance could have requested the photos and released them, even the family could of got them and then they slipped away from their hands.... nobody will ever know who released them, they are not top secret photos and are not secured as such.... as for the law suit.... it has only been a few months since the accident, emotions are high.... if a law suit being persued by the family helps them, then they should.... anything at this point is helping the family occupy themselves to get over the loss. Things done now are emotional.

[Cole Trickle]

This is not necessarily true. The minute a car is stolen it loses all liability insurance. He did call 911 so the insurance company has a huge case for it being considered stolen. The property damage would go back to the driver, who is a minor....so guess who gets the bill? Dear old dad. The most he would get out of the insurance company is a new car.
It's really a horrible tragidy that has no business being plastered all over the internet.
If she was a listed driver on the family account and there were no limitations for who could drive what the loss will be covered.
If she was in any way excluded from that policy or excluded from that specific vehicle they won't be paying a dime.(This could be the reason for the lawsuit if the dad had a 100K note on the porshe and did 25K worth of damage to the toll booth)
I have said it before that some of the pictures should never been leaked or released.(shows how sick society is)
On the other end of the spectrum there is alot we don't know...first report made it sound like the accident was late at night and the girl was drinking. If she was in fact intoxicated I think this is a great teaching device for 14-18 y/o kids that are or might be driving soon. (I would show my shild the photos of the blood,car and booth in a heartbeat...But I would not show them the detailed pictures of the girl)
It's really sad and I feel more than terrible for the family.:(
A lawsuit will not bring there daughter back.

[Hallett19]

Yeah, but my question is, why stretch out such a tragedy? Now they have a whole new handfull of issues with the lawsuit because of the leak of a few pictures, why keep the issue fresh in their minds every day?

[Chipster27]

I drive past that spot everyday. Not a day goes by that I don't look at the skid marks, the trench across the median and the banged up tollbooth. I imagine how it must have all played out, the fear, the uncertaintly, the sequence of events and ultimatly the end. Poor girl probably had 5-10 seconds after she clipped the car and started the chain of events.
I've seen the pics. Thanks for the warning, but everyone's definition of "graphic" is subjective. What's graphic to a coroner/paramedic/ER tech is significantly different from what's graphic to others. I've seen alot, I'm the kind of guy that gets "stuff" emailed to them all the time. This was probably the most graphic I've ever seen.
There was no value in posting the pics other than the pure "gore factor". I still drive triple digit speeds as will most every kid that saw the pictures. I'm actually a pretty conservative driver. No tickets in 8 years, no accidents ever. My car will easily accomodate triple digit speeds and even with all that in my corner the pictures have not altered my driving behavior. Teens/twenty somethings think they are invincible, it will never happen to me, it's always the other guy.
This was a tragedy, not just for the families but for everyone around them. Imagine the toll both operator. I've seen a lot of them and I'm guessing that no where in their training program does it prepare them for an event like this.
Identifying the person that took the pictures will be a piece of cake, and I'm sure it's already been done. Each tool booth has 4-5 camera shooting the entry to the booth, the pay lane, the exit of the booth and the ramp that merges back on to the toll road. Review the video, look for someone holding the camera with the same field of view in the pics. It's not going to take a lot to find the person/persons.
It's sad to see how this all played out. And as someone said, if it had been a member of the boating community this forum's responses would be significantly different. Case in point, the Lake Texoma accident with the Gordons earlier this year.

[racecar.hotshoe]

[QUOTE=Chipster27;2333049]events.
My car will easily accomodate triple digit speeds and even with all that in my corner the pictures have not altered my driving behaviorQUOTE]
So what your saying is you dont drive a Yugo............lol

[ratso]

[QUOTE=Chipster27;2333049]events.
My car will easily accomodate triple digit speeds and even with all that in my corner the pictures have not altered my driving behaviorQUOTE]
So what your saying is you dont drive a Yugo............lol
Those Z24 Cavaliers will flat haul ass...

[ratso]

My 3/4 ton Dodge Diesel will easily do triple digits...
My 3/4 ton Dodge Diesel will easily do triple digits...
...in case I need to tell you twice.:D

[C-2]

A CHP official in Sacramento said the agency cannot discuss the claim filed by the Catsouras family and said the issue of the leaked images remains under investigation.
"We're trying to find out if these are our photos and, if they are, how they were made public," CHP spokesman Tom Marshall said.
Accident-scene photos are meant only for investigative purposes. CHP policy and the state vehicle code forbid them from being distributed publicly.
The CHP is sending notices to operators of Web sites that have posted the images, demanding that they immediately be taken down.
It’s a violation of law. And yes, if they are LEO photos, they will find out who leaked them. Putting them on the Internet does not excuse the fact somebody might have broken the law to do it.
If they are LEO photos, this case will never make it to trial. Not because it has no merit, but due to the fact it’s too volatile of a case. Half of us are outraged; the other half could care less. As a defense investigator for nearly 20 So Cal cities defending against claims such as this, I gotta tell ya, you don’t want this case in front of a jury.
So the actions of some idiot will cost us all. The family thru their suffering, and us thru our pocketbooks. Yes, that pisses me off too – but I’m pissed at the idiot who leaked the photos, not at the family.
I think they should find the dirtbag who leaked the photos and prosecute him. A little sensitivity training might also be in order, not only for the agency responsible (if in fact there is one), but also for some of the peeps on this thread.

[Chipster27]

My 3/4 ton Dodge Diesel will easily do triple digits...
My 3/4 ton Dodge Diesel will easily do triple digits...
...in case I need to tell you twice.:D
So will my 6.0 F250, but it would scare the hell out of me. I hate driving that thing above 80 :D
And the beauty of a Yugo is that 50 feels like 100 :D
Almost all cars will hit triple digits. Few will give you confidence at those speeds. Probably should have been a little more concise in my statement ;)

[spectratoad]

My father died in an auto accident - was I supposed to learn something from it? Would photos have helped?
Gimmie a break - if that was your daughter, you'd better believe you would be in a world of hurt.
I hope they find the dirtbag who releasesd the photos and fire his ass.
I would be after somebody in a big way. There were only a few folks I'm sure that were on-scene that would be needing to take pics. I would sue in the shotgun effect. Every agency that was on-scene. Whoever is left standing would pay up and spend the rest of their lives making sure the pics didn't pop up on the internet again. It would be their job to surf for the pictures and get them off. Unfortunately it will be impossible for them to get all of the photos off the internet and out of the sick folks hands.
I did post that pictures probably do help kids keep from doing wrong but there is also a limit as to how graphic they should be or a sense of decency in the images used.

[centerhill condor]

gotta love Cali!:)

[BRSTQUEST]

First I want to say I truely feel sorry for this family and their death of their child. To many kids, 14 to about 24 years old, think they are untouchable. This is another reminder to all who have children that they must be reminded they are fragile and can get hurt.
We may never find out the cause of who this girl took the vehicle and I do not think the general public needs to know the cause.
Who ever leaked the photos, and it could be a number of person(s), should be held accountable at some level. I do not think a multimillion dollar suit is the answer though. This is a tragic event where alot of people are hurting and one person is dead. This does not need to be rehashed in a trial or a claim which is going to go on for years.
Just a humble opinion of one man

[riverroyal]

The girl had access to the keys which would, in many cases, be considered implied permission. However, it is possible that the young daughter was excluded from coverage on th Porsche which would put the owner of the vehicle on the damage from ths collision. Taken by a member of the household, without permission and stolen in most cases are very different. Generally, LE won't take a stolen vehicle report in these types of cases. In my opinion the only thing that would get the Dad's carrier off of this loss is a signed driver exclusion on his 18 y/o daughter.
Also I would like to refresh smoe people's memories. Initially the scene photos were actually posted in these forums. Not a link with a huge graphic warning as some have descried The warning was very low key. Those photos did not belong on these forums. They were removed by mods within minutes. The posts that kilr and others refer to came later and did carry clear warnings.
I opened it,I looked at it.I think I was suprised to see the pictures on a boating website.I believe most people were upset that it was here on HB.Im sure those picture and others are all over the internet.