Stand off box

[mrs.rvrluvr]

We have a 28ft deck boat 525 merc. Going to put a whipple kit on it soon. What would a stand off box do if anything? What would it do with out a whipple? Is it a waste of money? Who makes a good one? If it does help what will it do?

[andy01]

Don't waste your money, it helps some boats a little bit but in a "rerig" (adding a whipple) I wouldn't spend the money. It may give you an extra 2 mph, it that. It really is unneeded. Make sure you do go full hydralic steering though. That will be safer and give you a better over all steering set up.
Andy

[DMOORE]

I was actually thinking of the same question. I just have never seen any before- and-after, performance numbers on this type of project. Did anyone here try it? And if so what are the thoughts.
Andy, have any of the boats you've owned had them? Just curious if you had gone through a before and after project, and any thoughts if the boat behaved any differently. I have driven boats with, and boats without, but never the same boat with both configurations.
Presently my 28 Sportcat does not have them, and with the twins ,not sure if it would make a difference or not. It is very stable and well behaved presently even at pretty high speeds. Just trying to get thoughts.
Darrell.

[Havasu1986]

What exactly is a stand off box.?

[DMOORE]

What exactly is a stand off box.?
It is basically a spacer that is placed between the transom and the drive. Many are approximately 12" deep and move the drives back.
Darrell.

[Jrocket]

If you add a stand off box,theres a good chance your going to need to change your lower unit length.Sometimes a STB will cause a boat to act funny at different speeds,porpoise is usually the most noticable effect.
I'd run a full hydr steering and call it a day,but then again Id never put a Whipple on a Merc 525 either!

[andy01]

I was actually thinking of the same question. I just have never seen any before- and-after, performance numbers on this type of project. Did anyone here try it? And if so what are the thoughts.
Andy, have any of the boats you've owned had them? Just curious if you had gone through a before and after project, and any thoughts if the boat behaved any differently. I have driven boats with, and boats without, but never the same boat with both configurations.
Presently my 28 Sportcat does not have them, and with the twins ,not sure if it would make a difference or not. It is very stable and well behaved presently even at pretty high speeds. Just trying to get thoughts.
Darrell.
I have never put one on any of my boats. Some boat builders say that some boats work better with them. Unless it is "needed" to fix a handling problem I wouldn't use one. Some say use them, some say no. There are other benefits to the box, like steering can be tied to the box instead of the transom, some say the longer drive line will absorb some of the torque and save the drive. There are a lot of pros and cons.
What exactly is a stand off box.?
Like DMOORE said, it is a spacer on the transom between the drive and transom, it works like a over sided gimble. Gimble is the part that drive bolts and pivots on to steer/turn the drive.
If you add a stand off box,theres a good chance your going to need to change your lower unit length.Sometimes a STB will cause a boat to act funny at different speeds,porpoise is usually the most noticable effect.
I'd run a full hydr steering and call it a day,but then again Id never put a Whipple on a Merc 525 either!
Very well said, it could lead to more problems then it is worth. I to would look into other options then just the 525 whipple deal. The whipple set up is 12K all dialed and ready to go. Fuel upgrades and so on, if it has a bunch of hours and is going to be rebuild at time of whipple then it isn't a bad idea. If it is some what new, it is worth 15K couple that with the 12K and you could have a pretty nice motor with better parts that makes more power, for like money or a little more.
Who is doing the whipple set up?
Andy

[mrs.rvrluvr]

Thanx fo the info:) huby was talking to a guy at whipple said he does installs. I told him to call Teague from the magazine he seems to be pretty reputable. Huby has a friend that knows Gary at GT Performance and says to call him he left a message a few days ago but no reply yet. Hubby doing alot of checking around really wants to talk to GT because he was very highly recomended by his friend. It sounds like you don' t suggest the whipple jrocket. Any reason why? We listen to any and all suggestions and appreciate all comments.

[andy01]

Thanx fo the info:) huby was talking to a guy at whipple said he does installs. I told him to call Teague from the magazine he seems to be pretty reputable. Huby has a friend that knows Gary at GT Performance and says to call him he left a message a few days ago but no reply yet. Hubby doing alot of checking around really wants to talk to GT because he was very highly recomended by his friend. It sounds like you don' t suggest the whipple jrocket. Any reason why? We listen to any and all suggestions and appreciate all comments.
GT performance and Gary (The owner) are great people to do business with, GT is still in the middle of moving into thier brand new shop, so he has been spread pretty thin trying to get ahead. No reason not to call your husband back, but just trying to help out why. I have been more then happy with all of the work Gary has done for me. What is your husbands first name? I'll get on Gary to call him first thing next week.
Andy

[mrs.rvrluvr]

his name is Tim. He is a friend of Terry Mumford.

[mrs.rvrluvr]

What about TPI I have read a few good things about him on here? I guess I will try to find his # for huby. Thanx again andy01, hubby hates computers so I am trying to help as much as possible.

[mrs.rvrluvr]

andy01 just saw pics of your boat WWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWW:eek: :eek: :eek:
nice boat

[ToMorrow44]

Just as an FYI, the whipple kits for the 525s aren't too great and there's been quite a few dilemmas with them. And it's not Whipples fault don't get me wrong, they built great kits. The problem is that the 525 kits are the same as the hp500efi kits. But the hp500efi used a distributer whereas the 525 does not so a distributer has to be added. The 525 is just a little more complex than the hp500 was and that's where some problems may come up with all the different electronics. That's not to say that it won't work on your boat or your motor as maybe now they've rectified the situation, but that's just my knowledge.
-Tom

[Jrocket]

Thanx fo the info:) huby was talking to a guy at whipple said he does installs. I told him to call Teague from the magazine he seems to be pretty reputable. Huby has a friend that knows Gary at GT Performance and says to call him he left a message a few days ago but no reply yet. Hubby doing alot of checking around really wants to talk to GT because he was very highly recomended by his friend. It sounds like you don' t suggest the whipple jrocket. Any reason why? We listen to any and all suggestions and appreciate all comments.
Might get confusing but try to follow.I think the whipple product is a good choice,but I dont care for Dustin Whipple or the way he handles himself in here when problems arise.I do support Gary Teague but I dont think the Merc 525 is a good whipple motor due to the ECU problems of the past.They might have a fix for them now but I dont know for sure.If the motor is new,low hours,then I might put a whipple on it,but too do it correctly your going to be into it alot more than just bolting on the whipple kit.Either you pay now and have the heads and possibly the cam done or pay later when they need it.Its a crap shoot.Gary is in good with Dustin so he is always up to par with the Whipple stuff.

[mrs.rvrluvr]

thanx again guys WE have made a big list of questions to ask Gary.

[WET HULL]

What do you guys think on 25' cat with an open bow 650-700hp? I was thinking that with all the weight up front it might help me get the boat to pack some more air by moving some of the weight back. Hopefully I would see performance improvments but who knows.

[playdeep]

I currently have a v-bottom with a WPM stand off box...
Previously owned an identical hull without the box.
World of difference,
650(approx.)h.p. on a 25 ft. V and I spin a labbed 32p Bravo,she rolls on plane(2 adults,cooler, full fuel) like a jet boat,I never even touch the tabs to bring it on plane.I've been told the box puts the prop in cleaner water allowing it to bite harder.
On my application it also raised the X-dimension which helps top end.
Gary Kincaid told me a while back,that the shaft in the box actually absorbs some of the torque from the motor,which takes some of the pressure off of the drive....
I purchased the boat w/the Stand off box,so I don't know if it's worth the investment or not,but there is a pretty significant difference,on my paricular platform...

[Jrocket]

thanx again guys WE have made a big list of questions to ask Gary.
Ask him if he's related to Bob Teague,he loves that one.

[fkboatman]

19 ft open bow 195 allente campion 385 hp on motor changed from alfa set up to bravo boat ran five miles an hour slower,put land and sea 8 inch extension box in it boat ran 6 miles an hour faster,no difference getting on plane. so for the cost of the kit i bought used it was a wash, basicaly back to same speed as alfa set up

[andy01]

I currently have a v-bottom with a WPM stand off box...
Previously owned an identical hull without the box.
World of difference,
650(approx.)h.p. on a 25 ft. V and I spin a labbed 32p Bravo,she rolls on plane(2 adults,cooler, full fuel) like a jet boat,I never even touch the tabs to bring it on plane.I've been told the box puts the prop in cleaner water allowing it to bite harder.
On my application it also raised the X-dimension which helps top end.
Gary Kincaid told me a while back,that the shaft in the box actually absorbs some of the torque from the motor,which takes some of the pressure off of the drive
I purchased the boat w/the Stand off box,so I don't know if it's worth the investment or not,but there is a pretty significant difference,on my paricular platform...
Was the boat the same year? same exact setup? If not the same year then the comparison doesn't count, the more years builders build a model the more they change set up, sure the box may have helped you but it may have been something else that was working with it to notice the difference. The longer drive line absorbing some of the torque depends on who you talk to.
Andy

[andy01]

What do you guys think on 25' cat with an open bow 650-700hp? I was thinking that with all the weight up front it might help me get the boat to pack some more air by moving some of the weight back. Hopefully I would see performance improvments but who knows.
If there are no other boats like yours to compare it to then I wouldn't do it. Might open up a can of worms like Jrocket said.

[phebus]

If you're just trying to get your boat to run a little drier, a different prop might do that for you. Some props give more bow lift, some more stern lift.

[mrs.rvrluvr]

phebus we run a 26 lab finished stainless prop bravo one XR drive single ram stearing (I think he said it was hydrolic asist). 1.5 gears Its a 2006 boat with 85 hours on it.. Huby says it acts like it is very heavy in the front. Hard to get the hull to air out. runs 70 at about 5200 on a hot day (100*) with 4 people and fuel. He says it takes along time to get there though. He has a 24 prop not labed but it hits the rev limiter at about 67. Takes a while to plane the boat with the 26 but he likes the way it runs......I hope i explained it well enough I dont know sht about this stuff and he wont touch a computer Thanx again for the help. Its nice to know we can ask these kind of questions and not get laughed at because we dont know everything in the world about motors.

[dumbandyoung]

What do you guys think on 25' cat with an open bow 650-700hp? I was thinking that with all the weight up front it might help me get the boat to pack some more air by moving some of the weight back. Hopefully I would see performance improvments but who knows.
are you looking to go more power already?

[WET HULL]

Yes, I bought the boat with the 496 mag knowing I was going to build the motor up in the off season. It puts up good numbers now, but I am looking to go faster.

[andy01]

Why does DCB use them on every F-29 I've seen to date? Are you implying the boat has a handling problem with out them?
RD
The F-29 is sold with stock packages a lot, like the 625 setup for example comes with boxes. I think he orders most of his 525 and up Merc. setups with the ITS. There are no handling problems, a lot of customers like them for the extra 2-3 mph or some boats get on plane better with them. A lot of customers request them on thier boats because they like the clean set up with the steering and the look of the box. Lots of reasons for new boats being built to have them. Are they needed to cure a handling problem for the F-29, no.
Andy

[andy01]

Oh.. Ok. So then people use them for other things then obviously curing some handling problem? There is benefits to them then?
RD
I see your sarcasim Dave, if you have something to add then add it. I've built three brand new cats and just passing on what I have learned.
Did I say they had no benefits, just not needed in a lot of cases. I said "they could cure a handling problem" If by giving examples of it's different uses and examples told to me then I am sorry my post wasn't clearer for you. Come on with all of the boats you've tested and done write ups on you should know what a box does.... LOL

[Jrocket]

Just so long as you got the sarcasm is all that matters.
RD
Maybe if you got a boot to your chest or a pool cue across your lips it might change your sarcasm? :D

[Keith E. Sayre]

One thing that I might add is that obviously every boat is
different. For the boats with the Talon style bottom that have a lower center sponson and is deeper in the water than the outside sponsons, our experience is that you don't
benefit from a standoff box unless you put over 750 hp to it. Then after 750 hp or more, you will experience more
top end speed but you will do so at risk of porpoising and
the boat won't turn nearly as hard as it did before.
Also, if you look at most standoff boxes, you'll note that
they are not rectangular shaped boxes --but are parallelograms. With this in mind, not only can you
trim the drive up higher with a better angle of thrust for improved top end speed, but you can also still get the drive fairly deep into the water for solid hole shots. kind of like the best of both worlds.
Keith Sayre
Conquest Boats

[dumbandyoung]

One thing that I might add is that obviously every boat is
different. For the boats with the Talon style bottom that have a lower center sponson and is deeper in the water than the outside sponsons, our experience is that you don't
benefit from a standoff box unless you put over 750 hp to it. Then after 750 hp or more, you will experience more
top end speed but you will do so at risk of porpoising and
the boat won't turn nearly as hard as it did before.
Also, if you look at most standoff boxes, you'll note that
they are not rectangular shaped boxes --but are parallelograms. With this in mind, not only can you
trim the drive up higher with a better angle of thrust for improved top end speed, but you can also still get the drive fairly deep into the water for solid hole shots. kind of like the best of both worlds.
Keith Sayre
Conquest Boats
okay, well there is a 30' daytona in spam with boxes. has 2 496hos.. not anywhere near 750hp. why would eliminator put them on it then. what purpose would that serve it?

[Deano]

okay, well there is a 30' daytona in spam with boxes. has 2 496hos.. not anywhere near 750hp. why would eliminator put them on it then. what purpose would that serve it?
I don't think eliminator has the talon bottom that he was refering to.
The drive has more leverage to the hull with the box. Cleaner/higher water off the bottom of the boat at speed....

[andy01]

his name is Tim. He is a friend of Terry Mumford.
I hope Tim got all the information/questions answered today with Gary.
Andy

[andy01]

okay, well there is a 30' daytona in spam with boxes. has 2 496hos.. not anywhere near 750hp. why would eliminator put them on it then. what purpose would that serve it?
I don't think eliminator has the talon bottom that he was refering to.
The drive has more leverage to the hull with the box. Cleaner/higher water off the bottom of the boat at speed....
And with the cleaner water it can help get some of the bigger boats on plane with the prop shaft being further back.

[mrs.rvrluvr]

ANDYO1 huby talked to Gary today. Very Very happy He called me today and couldn't say enough nice things about Gary. We are going to put the whipple on it at his shop we are just trying to figure out when. If you talk to him (sounds like your good friends) please say thanx for us my huby was really happy with the time he spent on the phone answering his dumb questions. Sounds like a super cool guy.:) :) :)

[Dave C]

LOL good one.
Just so long as you got the sarcasm is all that matters.
RD

[Antisocial]

I took a 28 daytona for a test run with standoffs & twin 496hos. it didnt have any problem getting up on plane but it seemed to take the chop hard in sarasota bay. i bought one with the same setup only no boxes.. my boat is a pain to get up on plane. but i think it rides better... 02.:idea:

[sleek willy]

I'm running a 12" IMCO box. Saw no speed gains , but I did not lose any. Hydraulic steering installation is way clean and and handleing is great. Blew up the Bravo one, installing a new xr w/ 2" imco shorty. Yes, this is a can of worms. I do believe the combination of the extended torsion shaft and merc coupler could have helped save my motor when the drive siezed at 5600 rpm.
I am told that 12" back = 3" down. I raised motor mounts 1" ,the 2" shorty should bring me back to the ideal prop depth. Is it all worth it??? Probubly not. The only dramatic changes you see may be negative.

[DMOORE]

I'm running a 12" IMCO box. Saw no speed gains , but I did not lose any. Hydraulic steering installation is way clean and and handleing is great. Blew up the Bravo one, installing a new xr w/ 2" imco shorty. Yes, this is a can of worms. I do believe the combination of the extended torsion shaft and merc coupler could have helped save my motor when the drive siezed at 5600 rpm.
I am told that 12" back = 3" down. I raised motor mounts 1" ,the 2" shorty should bring me back to the ideal prop depth. Is it all worth it??? Probubly not. The only dramatic changes you see may be negative.
SLEEKWILLY,
Thanks for the info. It's always good to hear from people who have actually given something a try with real world experiance.
Darrell.