How cold before freeze damage

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Does anyone know or have any experiance with freeze damage to an un-winterized boat? My boat is at Ultra where it is forcast to 25 deg. tonight. I believe that my boat is probabally outside and I am concerned. Should I be?
Thanks
John M

[boatnam3]

i wouldnt be to concerned it dosent get below 30 until late and warms back up in the day.i cracked my block by in 89 up in hesperia me and about 500 other people that moved up from down the hill back in the late 80s.it got to 8degrees at night.split my block,manifolds destroyed the motor on a new boat.mine is outside in norco and its going to be 24tonite.

[2forcefull]

Does anyone know or have any experiance with freeze damage to an un-winterized boat? My boat is at Ultra where it is forcast to 25 deg. tonight. I believe that my boat is probabally outside and I am concerned. Should I be?
Thanks
John M
yes, cause its been cold all day for two days
I just got in from putting a heater in the engine compartment
ive used a drop light in there before kept it around 40 in twenty degree weather. I lost a block before at 28 degrees
I'm in vegas and it been low thirtys today, it was 26 at 9 this morning

[ULTRA26 # 1]

boatnam3
Thanks,
I sure hope you are right. I will keep my fingers crossed.
John M

[Not So Fast]

Does anyone know or have any experiance with freeze damage to an un-winterized boat? My boat is at Ultra where it is forcast to 25 deg. tonight. I believe that my boat is probabally outside and I am concerned. Should I be?
Thanks
John M
I would be concerned if it is indeed outside JMO John. This morning at 8:30 it was 35 outside so I checked in the garage and it was about 50. Inside I wouldnt be worried but outside???. NSF

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I would be concerned if it is indeed outside JMO John. This morning at 8:30 it was 35 outside so I checked in the garage and it was about 50. Inside I wouldnt be worried but outside???. NSF
Bobby,
I'm trying to get a hold of John West at Ultra to see if anything is being done. I sure hope so
Thanks
John M

[boatnam3]

yes, cause its been cold all day for two days
I just got in from putting a heater in the engine compartment
ive used a drop light in there before kept it around 40 in twenty degree weather. I lost a block before at 28 degrees
I'm in vegas and it been low thirtys today, it was 26 at 9 this morning
if it was only reaching a high of 30 i for sure be concerned,but it was 60 today so i hoping 24 or so for 3 or 4 hours will be ok.my pool goes into freeze mode when it gets to cold and it didnt start last night so maybe its ok.

[rude235]

the weather is about the same in vegas right now. unfortunately my ride is not inside either. the only thing i do with mine is hang a light in the engine compartment on really cold nights.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

if it was only reaching a high of 30 i for sure be concerned,but it was 60 today so i hoping 24 or so for 3 or 4 hours will be ok.my pool goes into freeze mode when it gets to cold and it didnt start last night so maybe its ok.
The high in El Cajon today was 51. At least it was sunny which might have warmed things up a bit.
Thanks for you input
John M

[2forcefull]

its thirty degrees in vegas right now 7pm, thats over twelve hours of freezing cold, time to turn on the light rude!!!

[nextel4u]

Hung the light in my engine compartment too.
I went out to my storage unit in Boulder City at noon today and it was 25 degrees in there. Could not believe it!
I have never had any trouble with cracked blocks but I can't remember when it has been cold like this during the days too. It is one thing for it to be below freezing for a few hours during the night, but when it stays cold all day I get worried.

[Kindsvater Flat]

got down to 27 overnight and I had slush coming out of the faucet in the shop, pool was iced over, and the fountain cracked.

[blown65]

Its been pretty cold here for about a week or so. (12 last night with a high of 36) Nothing defrosts so it doesnt take much. I have a little ceramic heater in the ski boat, and luckily the eliminator is in the garage. :)

[Jrocket]

Wouldnt the block have to have a substantial amount of water in it to crack at those medium of temps?

[Boatcop]

Wouldnt the block have to have a substantial amount of water in it to crack at those medium of temps?
My thoughts exactly.
If it hasn't been in the water for a few weeks, I'd think that the water would have evaporated by now. There shouldn't be enough left in it to cause any problems.

[blown65]

I dont think so. We do pump work and Ive seen pumps crack with very little water left. (Ppl thought they drained it all out)
I would think if you have water trapped in a small place where it cant expand much its going to pop. Dunno how that applies to areas in certain engine blocks but it only takes ONE spot.

[Jrocket]

I dont think so. We do pump work and Ive seen pumps crack with very little water left. (Ppl thought they drained it all out)
I would think if you have water trapped in a small place where it cant expand much its going to pop. Dunno how that applies to areas in certain engine blocks but it only takes ONE spot.
Water is trapped in pumps though right?
Bottom area of the blocks water passages,where the freeze plugs are is where the concern would be.

[YeLLowBoaT]

I would be more worried about the exhuast then the block. It does not take much water to crack them.

[andy01]

I wouldn't worry about it, it isn't cold long enough to cool the block to freezing. I would worry if it was cold all day but it is over freezing for more then it is freezing. Boat will be fine, now what about the sod I put in my back yard two weeks ago that is freezing every morning...... :(

[rude235]

2forcefull, i didn't even turn the light off today! damn these temps suck:mad:

[Blown 472]

Pink rv anti freeze works pretty good, keep in mind freeze point is one thing, where fluid starts to slush, burst point is when you are ****ed.

[BajaMike]

29 degrees tonight in Havasu.....
Fair
Feels Like: 30°
Barometer: 30.19 in and rising
Humidity: 21%
Visibility: 10 mi
Dewpoint: -1°
Wind: NNE 7 mph
Sunrise: 7:44 am
Sunset: 5:48 pm
36°High: 45° Low: 29°
» Detailed Forecast
» Records & Averages
» Get Yahoo! Weather on your desktop
» Get weather on your Palm® Treo™

[JetBoatRich]

I am using a 60W bulb heater as well:sqeyes:

[Blown 472]

Just wait til you get sub zero temps and all your shit is frozen.:devil:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

My boat has an HO it so I'm not worried about the the block. My biggest concern is the CMI headers. Boat hasn't been in the water since October.
Thanks everyone
John M

[Miss Managed Assets]

Portable heater in the garage starting 2 days ago, look like it's going to be chilly for awhile.

[boatnam3]

i had my boat out a couple of weeks ago so i know it has plenty of water in it,but i have a blanket on it...i mean boat cover lol.

[DaveA]

Sounds like it's time to upgrade to a 100w bulb now.
Speaking from experience, a 350 SBC will blow out the lower sides of the block (Freeze plugs? don't trust 'em) as well as the lifter gallery area under the intake. If you don't have your manifolds drained, well, they'll pop too. Your power steering fluid/engine oil cooler will break. And you can lose a head or two in the process.
If it freezes, essentially, yer screwed.
I run a pair of 100w bulbs in the engine compartment of the family boat since it hangs on a lift year-round. I check them religiously- if one burns out, at least the second one is there as a backup. I use the clamp-on work lites with the spun aluminum reflectors- one on each side of the engine aimed towards the lower block. So far, so good.
It's supposed to be in the seventies here tomorrow tho....we've got YOUR weather, sounds like.

[Jrocket]

All of this talk of freezing temps,made me think.......I need to throw some water on the neighbors cat before I hit the sack tonight.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

All of this talk of freezing temps,made me think.......I need to throw some water on the neighbors cat before I hit the sack tonight.
That was good

[2forcefull]

WENT OUT TO THE BOAT WITH A TEMP GUN, THE HULL IS 29 DEGREES!!!
I put a ceramic cube heater in the engine compartment @ 7, the block was at 44 degrees, outside the mufflers were at 42.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

WENT OUT TO THE BOAT WITH A TEMP GUN, THE HULL IS 29 DEGREES!!!
I put a ceramic cube heater in the engine compartment @ 7, the block was at 44 degrees, outside the mufflers were at 42.
Where are you located?

[blueman]

Water does not evaporate from inside your engine block. It is false to believe that an air gap inside will allow the water /ice to expand. Water freezes from the outside in. It expands in all directions at the same time...Ever seen a half filled soda bottle frozen ? the sides pop...the same thing happens to engine blocks pumps and fountains. Keep em empty or warm !

[blown65]

Water is trapped in pumps though right?
Bottom area of the blocks water passages,where the freeze plugs are is where the concern would be.
True. Then again there are drain plugs on them also and Ive seen them crack.
My boat is drained with the drain plugs also. (6.2 Scorpian mtr in the skiboat) Still worries me when its 12 at night. I just put a small ceramic style heater in the engine compartment set at the lowest temp it would set to.

[Morg]

Hit 6 deg. here in Reno this morning.
Boat is in garrage with the block drained. Just unscrew the 3/8" plugs in the side of the block & let it drain out the bilge, or in my case onto the garrage floor (motor on stand).
When I left work on Friday the water bottle inside the truck was frozen. Bur chilly

[shueman]

I know that many of my flowers and the fruit on the Orange Trees are toast....:(

[99fever27]

wow..its a balmy 70* here today in Va. :D

[Bow Tie Omega]

Well, with all of you talking about cracking blocks and such, I just went out and pulled the water jacket plug on the block next to the oil filter. Man it is cold outside. It is also windy, so I threw a moving blanket over her as well. Will not do much as far as ambient temp protection, but it will keep the wind chill effect away.

[Tom Brown]

If your outside in 30F, I'd be concerned. You might be OK if you're spot isn't shaded too much and it doesn't stay at that temperature too long. Hard to say.
Why don't you guys winterize your boats?

[hoolign]

If your outside in 30F, I'd be concerned. You might be OK if you're spot isn't shaded too much and it doesn't stay at that temperature too long. Hard to say.
Why don't you guys winterize your boats?
I'm doubting that it's 'cool" to winterize!:idea: :D

[voodoomedman]

If your outside in 30F, I'd be concerned. You might be OK if you're spot isn't shaded too much and it doesn't stay at that temperature too long. Hard to say.
Why don't you guys winterize your boats?Because we boat year round. My boat is in the garage in Havi and all this talk does scare me a little but I know it is warmer in the garage than outside so until I see that the temps out there will be zero then I'm not going to make a special roundtrip to put the air pump on the exhaust.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Does anyone know or have any experiance with freeze damage to an un-winterized boat? My boat is at Ultra where it is forcast to 25 deg. tonight. I believe that my boat is probabally outside and I am concerned. Should I be?
Thanks
John M
I hope you get away with it, but if it was me, I wouldn't get a lot of sleep tonight. If it is outside, has water in it, and no propolyne glycol, I fear you're gonna need a new block pretty soon.

[Bense468]

I think you will be alright. Its 28 right now here in La Verne, and I just went out to check my boat out after reading this thread. I still had a water bottle down in the bilge and it had a very small amount of water left in the bottle and it wasn't frozen but I have a cover over the boat and the bottle is plastic which is a better insulator. My dog bowls were frozen about 1/2 think over top though. They are sitting on concrete and are those metal bowls. I ran an extension cord and put a heating pad for your back on high in bottom of bilge just now for safe measure, hope I don't have problems with that getting too hot. Sounded safer then a light just not sure and i've had quiet a few drinks :eek:

[centerhill condor]

i've had quiet a few drinks :eek:
at least you won't freeze!... although you may burst.:sqeyes:

[framer1]

It's 12 in Paso Robles....2 acre lake behind my house froze, never seen that here. My boat boat is in a insulated garage so i'm not to worried....I do know people who have had cracked blocks from freezing and those are people who had their boats under a cover outside.....can't be to carefull. The light blub does help.

[FlatStupid]

Well, with all of you talking about cracking blocks and such, I just went out and pulled the water jacket plug on the block next to the oil filter. Man it is cold outside. It is also windy, so I threw a moving blanket over her as well. Will not do much as far as ambient temp protection, but it will keep the wind chill effect away.This is gonna get it started. Windchill is in relation to skin. Humans animals etc. Motors dont care about windchill!:D It's -36 as we speak, so buck up kids!

[brianthomas]

This is gonna get it started. Windchill is in relation to skin. Humans animals etc. Motors dont care about windchill!:D It's -36 as we speak, so buck up kids!
Plug the bilge vents with towels or tape them over to hold the warmth in and keep the breeze out. A light bulb in the bilge works great.

[catman-do]

I dont get how you all had so many problems with blocks cracking? I had a jeep cherokee that i used in college when i lived in Incline Village (lake tahoe). We had to park in a parking lot, i never used a block heater, and i never had a problem. I dont believe any of us in the dorms had problems. Now in Minnesota we had block heaters on about every car there, but it also got to a crisp -40 there and tahoe rarely saw the negatives. It was 19 degrees last night at our house and my truck/ car are both left outside.

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I keeping my fingers crossed that everything is OK. Normally, my boat would be in my garage in AZ but this isn't the case. It has been at Ultra since the
1st week in Nov.
Thanks again to everyone for their input
John M

[phebus]

I dont get how you all had so many problems with blocks cracking? I had a jeep cherokee that i used in college when i lived in Incline Village (lake tahoe). We had to park in a parking lot, i never used a block heater, and i never had a problem. I dont believe any of us in the dorms had problems. Now in Minnesota we had block heaters on about every car there, but it also got to a crisp -40 there and tahoe rarely saw the negatives. It was 19 degrees last night at our house and my truck/ car are both left outside.
Vehicles have antifreeze, where all boats (even those with closed cooling) run raw water through the system. Big difference.

[2forcefull]

Where are you located?
vegas, it was 20 here this morning at 7, took the boat out friday, it was 67 so i never thought about it freezing. temp droped like panties on a prostitute

[Sherpa]

you gotta remember, it's harder to freeze more water than a little bit of water.
I lost 2 exhaust manifolds in 1991 in Texas in my mastercraft. it was covered/
and tarped outside for 4 months....... I think it got down into mid 20's for a
few days, and that's all it took to make 400 bucks worth of scrap.
those manifolds only hold about 12 oz of water each side........... my block
was fine since I always drained it. it had petcocks on each side. the manifolds
had real big hex-keyed plugs, and I didn't have a hex wrench that big... my bad.
--Sherpa

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I'm hoping that my CMI headers might allow for slight expansion. IMO better chance than with cast. I Hope

[phebus]

i just walked out the garage and my BALLS GOT COLD:D i think we're up to 23*:(
I want to know, that if freezing causes expansion, how come I always suffer shrinkage?????????:confused:

[RitcheyRch]

Thats hilarious :D
I want to know, that if freezing causes expansion, how come I always suffer shrinkage?????????:confused:

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I wouldn't worry about it, it isn't cold long enough to cool the block to freezing. I would worry if it was cold all day but it is over freezing for more then it is freezing. Boat will be fine, now what about the sod I put in my back yard two weeks ago that is freezing every morning...... :(
Andy
I just did sod in my front yard also. So far it seems to be doing just fine. Thanks for the reassurance with regard to my boat Also, I wanted to tell you again that the graphic design on your new 26 is amoung the most tasteful I've seen
John M

[Screemy1]

Uhhh.... it was 6 degrees last night...... I didn't use anything...... I just pull lines and blow them with 150 psi of air...... never had a problem.... but all this crap has got me thinking... thanks, now I am worried:mad: :eek: :confused:

[roostwear]

Damn. The Advantage has been under the boat cover in the carport at the shack in Bullhead for a couple months now. Sure hope whatever water was in the block and exhaust blew out last time I fired it. Sure would hate to crack the block and have to speed up that stroker motor build...:idea:

[stoker22405]

My boat has an HO it so I'm not worried about the the block. My biggest concern is the CMI headers. Boat hasn't been in the water since October.
Thanks everyone
John M
Did you notice a difference in power with the cmi headers and was it worth the money

[Not So Fast]

Did you notice a difference in power with the cmi headers and was it worth the money
Do a search on this , it has been hashed over plenty. NSF

[phebus]

Do a search on this , it has been hashed over plenty. NSF
Yes it has, but I will say, ULTRA26 # 1's boat performs as good as any 496HO boat I have heard of.
Good bottom definately, but he's got that motor working good too.

[2Driver]

read all the post here but you can do a few of these to get you over the hump.
- The closer the boat is to something the better..like even parking you truck by the transom or moving the boat close to the house.
- Cover/wrap the outdrive with a blanket and plug the exhaust outlets with a small hand towel
- Last, put a small wattage light bulb in the engine compartment. 25 watt. BE SURE that is secure and away from anything that could be ignited from the heat of the bulb.
Here is my boat in a freak snow in Scottsdale last year.http://***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21991&stc=1&d=1168820803

[ULTRA26 # 1]

read all the post here but you can do a few of these to get you over the hump.
- The closer the boat is to something the better..like even parking you truck by the transom or moving the boat close to the house.
- Cover/wrap the outdrive with a blanket and plug the exhaust outlets with a small hand towel
- Last, put a small wattage light bulb in the engine compartment. 25 watt. BE SURE that is secure and away from anything that could be ignited from the heat of the bulb.
Here is my boat in a freak snow in Scottsdale last year.http://***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21991&stc=1&d=1168820803
Thanks for the info
John M

[The Jerk]

im hoping 2 halogen work lights on each side and a drop light on top will do the trick for warmth....

[catman-do]

Vehicles have antifreeze, where all boats (even those with closed cooling) run raw water through the system. Big difference.
Oh, I see. Good point. Glad my boat is indoors!

[ULTRA26 # 1]

Hopefully the below freezing stuff is over for now and that my boat survived without damage.
Thanks again to everyone for all of the input
John M

[Jyruiz]

So if it gets to 33 outside in Havi tonight, what would the temp inside an insulated (except for the garage door) garage be?

[phebus]

So if it gets to 33 outside in Havi tonight, what would the temp inside an insulated (except for the garage door) garage be?
Don't know Juan, but as cold as it's gotten here, my garage has stayed fairly warm, so I wouldn't worry about a thing.

[Jyruiz]

Don't know Juan, but as cold as it's gotten here, my garage has stayed fairly warm, so I wouldn't worry about a thing.
Thanks Rick, I new I could count on a Havasu local to tell me whats up.:)

[andy01]

Andy
I just did sod in my front yard also. So far it seems to be doing just fine. Thanks for the reassurance with regard to my boat Also, I wanted to tell you again that the graphic design on your new 26 is amoung the most tasteful I've seen
John M
Yeah my yard seems to be holding out okay as well. Thanks for the compliments on the 26.
Andy

[ULTRA26 # 1]

I just got some great news. Travis from Ultra called and informed me that Ultra winterized all boats that were outside.

[voodoomedman]

I just got some great news. Travis from Ultra called and informed me that Ultra winterized all boats that were outside.
Of course they did. I figured something would be done. You just don't have to worry with those guys.

[Ned S]

Many years ago I was a mechanic in Myrtle Beach SC. We had freezing temps for the first time in like 30 years. A lot of people did not have any anti freeze in their cars. We were getting calls for jump starts like crazy, more than the tow truck could handle so I was sent out with my own car with a pair of jumper cables to try to get some of the cars started. The first one would not turn over at all, seemed strange to me so I tried to turn the engine by hand. I soon found that the water pump was frozen. I figured the block was toast gave him a ride to work, cut the belt with a knife started the car and had his wife drive it to the shop. We actually had about 30 cars driven to the shop after removing the belts as long as they were close. Of those we only had one cracked block, about a dozen popped freeze plugs, and a couple of cracked heads, almost all needed radiators, but most if not all of the water pumps were bad or failed within a few days.
Keep in mind todays heads are much thinner castings than they were then and if your seawater pump is engine mounted it could be damaged.Closed cooling exchangers have brass ends that will pop. Wet exhaust manifolds would probably freeze first and could easily cause an engine failure later. The blocks are pretty tough but freezing water can do some strange things. In a pinch a properly placed floodlight bulb can be a very effective heater.

[dirty old man]

G/F got all pissy last nite when I pulled the electric blanket off her and covered the engines in the cig. Was out of lite bulbs. Now she going to Salvation Army to get another

[HavasuSelect]

I just got some great news. Travis from Ultra called and informed me that Ultra winterized all boats that were outside.
That's some FANTASTIC customer service! Props to Ultra!
Just out of curiosity what do you have to do to winterize a boat?

[stoker22405]

Do a search on this , it has been hashed over plenty. NSF
thanx for the advise

[voodoomedman]

That's some FANTASTIC customer service! Props to Ultra!
Just out of curiosity what do you have to do to winterize a boat?
Actually as I understand it not much with closed cooling. The Mercs have a bicycle looking kinda pump attached that you take off and hook up and pump all the water out of the exhaust and such. Non closed cooling you gotta do all these drain plugs and then fill the block with antifreeze and stuff.

[HavasuSelect]

Actually as I understand it not much with closed cooling. The Mercs have a bicycle looking kinda pump attached that you take off and hook up and pump all the water out of the exhaust and such. Non closed cooling you gotta do all these drain plugs and then fill the block with antifreeze and stuff.
That doesn't seem to hard. So basically get the water out and anti-freeze in. Makes sense. I'm just hoping my boat is ok. It's been outside in Havasu this whole time:mad: It has the cover on and it's in between the house and a block wall. My fingers are crossed.......

[voodoomedman]

That doesn't seem to hard. So basically get the water out and anti-freeze in. Makes sense. I'm just hoping my boat is ok. It's been outside in Havasu this whole time:mad: It has the cover on and it's in between the house and a block wall. My fingers are crossed.......
Hopefully. It takes hours at below freezing to do it I guess. The colder the quicker but it hasn't gotten that cold. Also the engine in under the hatch and you have a cover on. The biggest problem is that the intake on the outdrive isn't protected from the cold but you are in between the house and the block wall which helps. If you can't get it in the garage then next year wrap up the outdrive in blankets. I hope your okay.

[HavasuSelect]

Hopefully. It takes hours at below freezing to do it I guess. The colder the quicker but it hasn't gotten that cold. Also the engine in under the hatch and you have a cover on. The biggest problem is that the intake on the outdrive isn't protected from the cold but you are in between the house and the block wall which helps. If you can't get it in the garage then next year wrap up the outdrive in blankets. I hope your okay.
Thanks! That's good advice. My dad lives in Havasu. I called him yesterday and reminded him. He said he didn't even think about the boat. I'm glad this thread came up otherwise I prob wouldn't have thought about it either.
So are you enjoying the winter or are you ready to run your Ultra yet?:D

[voodoomedman]

Thanks! That's good advice. My dad lives in Havasu. I called him yesterday and reminded him. He said he didn't even think about the boat. I'm glad this thread came up otherwise I prob wouldn't have thought about it either.
So are you enjoying the winter or are you ready to run your Ultra yet?:D
I am kicking myself in the pants because there was one nice day over new years we could have taken it out when we were there. I'm trying to decide that if it's not too cold to maybe take it out at night and watch the fireworks of President's Day weekend. If not then it usually starts getting real nice around March. Last weekend was nice though to stay at home here and not have a list of projects and just relax and play with the kid. Hope your winter is good as well.
And your not alone in worrying. My boat is in the garage in Havi and even though I know everything is okay I still worry. Even with the alarm and such I always get a sigh of relief when I peek into the garage when I get there. Have to check on the boat, have a beer and unwind and then I can go to sleep.

[HavasuSelect]

I am kicking myself in the pants because there was one nice day over new years we could have taken it out when we were there. I'm trying to decide that if it's not too cold to maybe take it out at night and watch the fireworks of President's Day weekend. If not then it usually starts getting real nice around March. Last weekend was nice though to stay at home here and not have a list of projects and just relax and play with the kid. Hope your winter is good as well.
And your not alone in worrying. My boat is in the garage in Havi and even though I know everything is okay I still worry. Even with the alarm and such I always get a sigh of relief when I peek into the garage when I get there. Have to check on the boat, have a beer and unwind and then I can go to sleep.
Presiden't Day would be a nice time for a run. Hopefully weather wise it will warm up. That would be pretty darn fun to watch the fireworks from the water. I know what you mean about just staying home on the long weekends. It's very relaxing just doing nothing for a couple days.
I can only imagine what it's like for you with the boat. I guess the saying "seeing is believeing" would apply in that situation. I'm lucky my dad is there full-time.
I'll be in Havasu for President's weekend but I don't think we'll be on the water. We might do some riding in the desert then prob head to Desert Bar one of the days. If I see you the first 3 beers are on me:D

[voodoomedman]

Presiden't Day would be a nice time for a run. Hopefully weather wise it will warm up. That would be pretty darn fun to watch the fireworks from the water. I know what you mean about just staying home on the long weekends. It's very relaxing just doing nothing for a couple days.
I can only imagine what it's like for you with the boat. I guess the saying "seeing is believeing" would apply in that situation. I'm lucky my dad is there full-time.
I'll be in Havasu for President's weekend but I don't think we'll be on the water. We might do some riding in the desert then prob head to Desert Bar one of the days. If I see you the first 3 beers are on me:D
Yeah. My neighbor's are awesome and if something was looking funny they would call but like you said seeing is believing. And I'm always down for a beer or 3. :D