Red Headed Stepchild (Owning a "V-DRIVE")!!!

[BILLY.B]

It really sickens me to say this....Due to our judicial system (Judges) & (Liars), I mean Lawyers, and the insurance companys that have to pay out because people won't except responsibilty for there own actions when THEY F*%K UP, the Needles Vacation / V-DRIVE BASH is OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. There were countless hours spent by myself and Needles Marina park to come up with an arrangement but in the end I felt like i'd been ran over by an 18 wheeler. Seeing as this was there biggest financial week of the year in terms of money to the park, a great group of people (no fights, no trash left behind, no defacing of property) and the fact that we were always willing to help out anyway we could was just not worth the risk I was told. It's really ashame that in todays communist world we call America that we as group of v-drivers can't even get together to hang out, tell lies, and just flat out (no pun intended) have a good time without being told.......... NO, you can't do this!!!!!. Needles Marina park had me on a conference call with there insurance agent, which on there behalf was a nice gester, but I also felt like whatever I had for a solution feel on deaf ears. Or should I say on ears that really had no idea what type of boat or type of people we have show up at Needles. I had suggested that Needles Marina send out a letter that would say that your vacation was over. That if you showed up with your boat you wouldn't be allowed to launch at there ramp. I figured this would take the liability risk away from them. I figured we would still come and that we could launch at another ramp either up river or down river. But there insurance agent said that this still said that Needles Marina was condoning having THESE type of boats in there park. What about a boat show???. Seeing as these are some of the nicest crafts anywhere to be found. That was also turned down. Bottom line..... Owning one of these type of v boats (insurance agents term) is just to much of a risk. My rebutal was....If I was a member of the LSC (Lucky Sperm Club) and my Dad gave me his credit card, and I went down to Eliminator or DCB and bought a 28ft cat with a couple of blown engines in it, and out of the showroom it would run over 110 mph, seating for 6, holds 2 ice chest, and I could drink while I was driving, and do all of this with no boating experience, THAT WOULD BE FINE ??????. No comment!!!. Rick King, who some of you might know in person or from Jerry's River Rats DVD, was at Needles in September and decided to change his gears. (I love this story). Well over the course of 2 days. a jar of salsa, couple of bags of chips, with a beer thrown in for good measure, he was done. Know why it took so long?????. Guys walking up and BS'ing with him. And if you know Rick he loves to have you pull up a chair have a chip or two, throw one back and talk about anything that has to do with HP. That my friends is what this whole deal WAS about. Getting together and building friendships that would last a life time. Thank the lady who sued McDonalds for the coffee being to hot, (the lawyer who took the case, and the judge who let this F#*KING case into his court room) and won!!!. Well guys and gals it was fun while it lasted !!!!!!.

[olbiezer]

damn......i never even got a chance to come watch.......lawyers suck.....sorry to hear it billy

[DUNDUN]

damn.. that is total bullshit. so.. redrock is out and needles is too now? i went two years ago and it was the best river trip ive ever been on. what a shame. :frown:

[eraser]

I'm going to be sick !:mad: :mad: Billy, I just want to say THANK YOU!!!!!! for at least trying!!!!

[lucky]

It really sickens me to say this....Due to our judicial system (Judges) & (Liars), I mean Lawyers, and the insurance companys that have to pay out because people won't except responsibilty for there own actions when THEY F*%K UP, the Needles Vacation / V-DRIVE BASH is OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. There were countless hours spent by myself and Needles Marina park to come up with an arrangement but in the end I felt like i'd been ran over by an 18 wheeler. Seeing as this was there biggest financial week of the year in terms of money to the park, a great group of people (no fights, no trash left behind, no defacing of property) and the fact that we were always willing to help out anyway we could was just not worth the risk I was told. It's really ashame that in todays communist world we call America that we as group of v-drivers can't even get together to hang out, tell lies, and just flat out (no pun intended) have a good time without being told.......... NO, you can't do this!!!!!. Needles Marina park had me on a conference call with there insurance agent, which on there behalf was a nice gester, but I also felt like whatever I had for a solution feel on deaf ears. Or should I say on ears that really had no idea what type of boat or type of people we have show up at Needles. I had suggested that Needles Marina send out a letter that would say that your vacation was over. That if you showed up with your boat you wouldn't be allowed to launch at there ramp. I figured this would take the liability risk away from them. I figured we would still come and that we could launch at another ramp either up river or down river. But there insurance agent said that this still said that Needles Marina was condoning having THESE type of boats in there park. What about a boat show???. Seeing as these are some of the nicest crafts anywhere to be found. That was also turned down. Bottom line..... Owning one of these type of v boats (insurance agents term) is just to much of a risk. My rebutal was....If I was a member of the LSC (Lucky Sperm Club) and my Dad gave me his credit card, and I went down to Eliminator or DCB and bought a 28ft cat with a couple of blown engines in it, and out of the showroom it would run over 110 mph, seating for 6, holds 2 ice chest, and I could drink while I was driving, and do all of this with no boating experience, THAT WOULD BE FINE ??????. No comment!!!. Rick King, who some of you might know in person or from Jerry's River Rats DVD, was at Needles in September and decided to change his gears. (I love this story). Well over the course of 2 days. a jar of salsa, couple of bags of chips, with a beer thrown in for good measure, he was done. Know why it took so long?????. Guys walking up and BS'ing with him. And if you know Rick he loves to have you pull up a chair have a chip or two, throw one back and talk about anything that has to do with HP. That my friends is what this whole deal WAS about. Getting together and building friendships that would last a life time. Thank the lady who sued McDonalds for the coffee being to hot, (the lawyer who took the case, and the judge who let this F#*KING case into his court room) and won!!!. Well guys and gals it was fun while it lasted !!!!!!.
Hey Billy ,
whats would you k look like wit a rude on it :) lol --
THIS IS BULLSHIT , I see so many wrongs in the world today , it ain't funny !!
Just don't let it get ya down -- keep trying - Maybe you could ask them if you could put up your own bond - to cover the event -- ( insurance company's like shared liability ) I'm sure all the gay amm Guys would pitch in a a few bucks , I would really like to take a trec down to az for a weekend and screw with you guys -- if it becomes a major issue and you fockers CANT do it Maybe we should move it up north to CLEARLAke particularly Konocti harbor inn -- They still run one or two ski races up there a year and i have been master baiting to the idea of nor cal v drive affair ?
So bottom line -- If they are going to try to smother us , they better be ready for a whole bunch of KUNG FU and shrooooms ..... and your pussy ass coors light ...

[Morg]

It is getting harder & harder to be an honest & upstanding human being, taught by my grandfather to treat people with respect & honor your fellow man. And take responsability for your own actions.
Now, the verry people that I was raised to respect keep trying to take away my rights & have now taken away something that I thought as an American I had the right to do.
We need to buy a chunk of land with a lake on it big enough to run our boats. Fence it off & call it "America". V-drives, Guns & good times welcome, No B.S. Tolerated.
Ya know, Put quite simply, If there was profit for corporations this would not have happend.

[Sangster]

Billy...That sucks big time.. It's not jest the Ignorant Insurance Co.'s.. Their jest trying to protect their policy holder from the vast flurry of "Tort ***** Attorneys" out to get rich off someone else's injoyment... Your right about Going in and buying a Showroom Special that will run in the low to mid 100's & be accepted at nearly any resort/park... The writing was on the wall back when Jack Davidson was sued & quit producing Sanger Flats/Hydro's...Very Sad......... :cool: :cool: :cool:

[dmontzsta]

:cry: I never even got to go... :cry:
I am pissed now, F this! :cry:
Hopefully we can get another get together for V-Drivers.

[Sangerboy]

Damn :220v: :mad: :mad: Most of us have seen the writing on the wall and knew it would come to this, but right now I'm just angry and very sad.
I had let my wife know that if anything ever happened to end my life, I want to be cremated and one of the places I wanted my ashes scattered was the stretch between the bridge and the point. So many memories of having a blast and doing something I am absolutely passionate about.
Billy I want to thank you for all the effort you put in to try and resolve the problems and come up with a workable solution, I know you've probably laid awake at nights trying to think of some way to keep making it happen. Right now I'm going to go stew for awhile and collect my thoughts ( the collecting shouldn't take to long :rolleyes: ) Let's figure out something that we can do.

[dmontzsta]

Yes. I would like to Thank You also, Billy. You have done ALOT to help grow this sport. Thank You!

[steve d]

Thanks Billy ---You know how I feel about it. I'm with Sangerboy, there has got to be a way.

[BILLY.B]

Hey Billy ,
Just don't let it get ya down -- keep trying - Maybe you could ask them if you could put up your own bond - to cover the event -- ( insurance company's like shared liability ) I had talked to Dave at Irvine lake and he had put me in touch with his insurance agent. The cost of 4 to 5 million dollars worth of liabilty insurance for a week was around 4 to 5 thousand dollars. No big deal....We split it out over the number of boats that come. WRONG!!!!....According to Needles Marina it only gives deeper pockets for someone to dive into if there were a problem. Typical BS no matter which way you turn. :mad:

[steve d]

:cry: I never even got to go... :cry:
I am pissed now, F this! :cry:
Hopefully we can get another get together for V-Drivers.
dmontzsta---sorry you never experienced this gathering--something I looked forward to all year long...I don't think I'm alone on that one.

[FlatStupid]

Billy, call me, thanks CK

[dmontzsta]

Thanks Billy ---You know how I feel about it. I'm with Sangerboy, there has got to be a way.
I have always heard about it and saw video. :(
I dont understand why someone would want to sue the Marina. Some people are just out to make a quick buck. If you crash on the street you dont sue the city. If you crash in to someone, get your stuff stolen in the parking lot, etc...
THAT IS WHAT INSURANCE IS FOR!
If you do not have insurance, than you should have the $$$, cause this sport is not cheap.

[SCRINC]

I know i was looking forward to this deal . It takes the wind out of your sail.. I guess it was nice while it lasted and yes Billy has done more than we all know so we all can have a great vaction.. It seams like every year we are loosing a great facility to enjoy our hobby. I know of other locations in AZ were one can run their hot rods... Anyone care to share there thoughts .. Big River , Blythe , A lot of nice water (at times) and people down that way....

[Highlimit9000]

I had talked to Dave at Irvine lake and he had put me in touch with his insurance agent. The cost of 4 to 5 million dollars worth of liabilty insurance for a week was around 4 to 5 thousand dollars. No big deal....We split it out over the number of boats that come. WRONG!!!!....According to Needles Marina it only gives deeper pockets for someone to dive into if there were a problem. Typical BS no matter which way you turn. :mad:
Billy, Again thanks for all the hard work! I always looked forward to it every year since I started going. I was able to attend the last 3 years, it was great to meet new friends, and just have a bitchen time. I agree also this is complete BULLSHIT! If there is anything I can do, please dont hesitate to ask.Anything! Write letters, Money for help...You would be suprised what people can accomplish in mass numbers!
Privately owned park, on a Federal Waterway???The boating is done on the water, not in the park! I bet the park wont deny any Harley's that weekend!

[Rattle Can Lou]

You can call me Rattle Can Blue today. Billy I could tell in your voice last night that this is so personal to you. This is one reason why I live in Idaho. One of the last real conservative states. Back in the day when I was young these were the boats to have. You were the norm, not the red headed step child. What happened in 30 years. When I go to Parker I am sickened by those big ass tug boats. We will find another place. Everything happens for a reason and the next gig is gonna be huge. RCB

[beaverfab]

Billy call me when you can j.j.

[Dogballs]

Billy,
Needles has been my stomping ground for 20 years. Any thoughts about the Avi. I don't think there would be any of this silly schit at the Indian Casino. Most of the passes would happen during the week and then the boat show would start saturday AM with boats featured on the lawn or in the cove. Just a thought!!
Balls

[markc]

UN-F'N beliveable! another legal liability b/s! I was looking forward to this, it seems that almost evry type of "boating" event in california is a liabilty. :mad: :mad:

[Highlimit9000]

Billy,
Needles has been my stomping ground for 20 years. Any thoughts about the Avi. I don't think there would be any of this silly schit at the Indian Casino. Most of the passes would happen during the week and then the boat show would start saturday AM with boats featured on the lawn or in the cove. Just a thought!!
Balls
Funny you should bring that up. I just Private Messaged Billy with the same Idea...FlatBroke would probably know more on Hotel/Casino Liab Issue's.They have a RV park also...Good point lookout to take Pics and Video to. Water stays pretty calm during week...
http://www.classicboatbeachbash.com/cbbb04/cbbb040080.JPG
LOOKOUT POINT
http://www.classicboatbeachbash.com/images/sat4.gif
http://www.classicboatbeachbash.com/cbbb04/cbbb040082.JPG

[Moneypitt]

Truly a sad outcome. After years of basic, trouble free fun, now all of a sudden the lawyers get involved. If the park is truly going to deny entrance to anyone pulling a v drive to even camp at the park then there would appear to be a clear cut case of discrimination. I agree, they can close their ramp to certain type boats, boats that may not pass the "legal" term of compliance to the various laws on the books, but to ban campers access to the campsites based on the type of boat being towed, could very well be something alot more serious in terms of exposure to lawsuits. If the people driving in were a minority, with a vdrive in tow, the shit would certainly hit the fan. What is Marina Parks deal about the land? Is it privately owned, or leased from some government agency? And finally, now its time to regroup, look elsewhere. The fever that is shared by all who attend these "vacations" is not going to go away. So, it is time to look from a positive direction and move forward....MP

[Speedin' Ian]

Damn!! What a bummer, I really look forward to these trips to the river with friends and family, it is definately the best group of people on the water.
Thank you so much for your effort Billy, I know this is something you've been working on for a long time and we are all appreciate your effort.

[steve d]

Truly a sad outcome. After years of basic, trouble free fun, now all of a sudden the lawyers get involved. If the park is truly going to deny entrance to anyone pulling a v drive to even camp at the park then there would appear to be a clear cut case of discrimination. I agree, they can close their ramp to certain type boats, boats that may not pass the "legal" term of compliance to the various laws on the books, but to ban campers access to the campsites based on the type of boat being towed, could very well be something alot more serious in terms of exposure to lawsuits. If the people driving in were a minority, with a vdrive in tow, the shit would certainly hit the fan. What is Marina Parks deal about the land? Is it privately owned, or leased from some government agency? And finally, now its time to regroup, look elsewhere. The fever that is shared by all who attend these "vacations" is not going to go away. So, it is time to look from a positive direction and move forward....MP
I agree M.P.----If Al Sharpton showed up with a TFH, muffler on each zoomie and C.F. numbers and got turned away---the shiat would hit he fan

[Dogballs]

Those pictures taken at CBBB are in the middle of Aug. The river is vacant in April, the water level is high and too cold for jet skis which would make it a good venue.

[Propster]

Sue 'em for discrimination.

[dmontzsta]

The avi is a nice spot. They have always welcomed CBBB with open arms. Of course, I think it is classified as a "boat show" to take place in the parking lot.
They also have security in the parking lot 24 hours a day. They discount the rooms to $69 per night and they are great rooms. The water is not as good as Needles though, that is the only downside.

[sixgunsam]

It is only a matter of time before they do this to CFW.The more houses they keep building out here, the more people to complain about the loud boats on the lake. SOOOO,,, lets make this Fathers Day a time to remember, if you haven't been here, make the trip this year. I looked forward to making a trip to Needles, now I can't.

[olbiezer]

is the avi close enough to needles to make a 6am bonzi campground pass? might be worth the time to go watch 30 or 40 hot boats go buy lol

[Moneypitt]

is the avi close enough to needles to make a 6am bonzi campground pass? might be worth the time to go watch 30 or 40 hot boats go buy lol
That would be a no no. The last thing you would want to do is piss off the neighbors. That is something that was established awhile back. The campground is just one of many, but there is only one river, and the local LE react to any and all complaints with a zero tolorance policy. I think the local Judge lives close to there and was tolorant to the boats at a resonalble hour, so don't screw that up as well..............MP

[dmontzsta]

ohhh, the sound of high hp boats zooming down the river... :cry: :cry: :cry:

[vdriver4ever]

Trial Lawyers are the largest lobbying association in America. This must be stopped. They do nothing but think up laws that can perpetuate more lawsuits. I was watching Fox and Friends the other morning and a single mom was in a restaurant recently with a rude 9 year old. The young waiter got pissed off at the kid and mom. So instead of bringing the kid a coke he brought him a long island ice tea. The kid took two sips and spit it back. The mom found out and called an ambulance. Well guess what the mom is suing for $75,000.00 because the ******** kid has not been right since... We have all heard these stories... They sicken me.
And to think some people in our country almost elected one of those blood thirsty a$$holes to the VP position.
Sorry Billy I know how much work you put into this.

[RiverDave]

So I gotta ask.. Did something happen where a v-driver didn't man up for his own actions? and a lawsuit (or thread of a lawsuit) ensue?
Or is this a pre-emptive from the needles marina?
I was really wondering how long they were going to let the zoomie crowd slide up there before starting to crack down. I'd bet it's a matter of months now before most the boats aren't even allowed to run up there.
Happened in Parker in a matter of weeks!! One minute OT's are no problemo. Next minute your getting the riot act for anything other then a through hub I/O or an Outboard.. :(
RD

[BIGCHRIS]

Reading this makes me sick,they are bassically saying that if u own a hot rod boat that u are not able to use there marina bullshit :mad: :mad: :mad: .Anyone that uses there facility is a liability anything can happen at anytime to anyone.I hate it for u guys that attend this each year ,i enjoy hearing y,all talk about going and i almost feel like i am there.They may win at needles but as long as there is good fuel and a love for speed they cant keep us down :220v:

[dmontzsta]

Just remember, if you go out and crash your car, sue yourself! cause you left from your driveway.

[RiverDave]

They may win at needles but as long as there is good fuel and a love for speed they cant keep us down :220v:
That's exactly what they said about the Havasu Marina.. they won.
Exactly what everyone said with transom exhaust in Parker.. they won.
At what point will someone organize a group to start trying to reverse some of this stuff?
RD

[Moneypitt]

[QUOTE=vdriver4ever]Trial Lawyers are the largest lobbying association in America. This must be stopped. They do nothing but think up laws that can perpetuate more lawsuits.
You have to remember most of our elected officals are EX LAWYERS. Same can be said for our JUDGES. So the Lawyers are here to stay, with plenty of help from those lawyer buddies making the BS laws......In reality, the Needles Marina Park has NO liability. Think about it, if the boats are somehow operating illegally, be it equipment or speed, there can be no liability attached to the friggin campground!! Even if an illegal boat launched from their marina, how could/would any deep pocket liability attach??? Someone mentioned a discrimation lawsuit and the circumstances that would put this place on the National map. I wonder if their insurance company even covers such a suit? I'm sure this is like a knife in the back for Billy, all those years, no problems, and then out of the blue a total eviction! Pure 100% Bullshit........MP

[DUNDUN]

yeah i cant kick this from my mind.. it totally sucks. this is a total knife in the back to hot boaters.. particularly billy.. im so sorry this happened to you. thanks for the great memories your vacation has provided for me and my family. it is total discrimination.. are they gonna turn down any v-drive that pulls into the park that week or what? i dont understand how they can get away with that.. it sucks so bad. hang in there guys.

[Morg]

Just to clarify,
As far as I know. This is not due to an existing lawsuit or is because noise.
In fact those who payed attention to RRII might have caught the clip of Tony cruizing by the cops in his k-boat. :) :)

[ColeTR2]

This sucks!! :cry: :cry: :cry: AVI is not a choice because the Laughlan Harley run is going on the last half of that week and it's always sold out!

[Rexone]

[QUOTE=vdriver4ever]Trial Lawyers are the largest lobbying association in America. This must be stopped. They do nothing but think up laws that can perpetuate more lawsuits.
You have to remember most of our elected officals are EX LAWYERS. Same can be said for our JUDGES. So the Lawyers are here to stay, with plenty of help from those lawyer buddies making the BS laws......In reality, the Needles Marina Park has NO liability. Think about it, if the boats are somehow operating illegally, be it equipment or speed, there can be no liability attached to the friggin campground!! Even if an illegal boat launched from their marina, how could/would any deep pocket liability attach??? Someone mentioned a discrimation lawsuit and the circumstances that would put this place on the National map. I wonder if their insurance company even covers such a suit? I'm sure this is like a knife in the back for Billy, all those years, no problems, and then out of the blue a total eviction! Pure 100% Bullshit........MP
While this may be true (the marina having no actual liability), they can and would likely be named in any lawsuit (people can and will sue anyone for just about anything, frivilous or otherwise) and would therefore have to defend it (translated as money spent they can't afford). Their insurance agency is simply pre-empively covering their ass from the litigeous society we all now live in by eliminating this risk of being sued. I'm sure the insurance company has also made the elimination of this vacation and type of boat a condition of writing the insurance for the park. Since the park obviously must have insurance they're basically screwed too.
Yes it sucks and its a big reason why a lot of things that used to exist that were enjoyable (like racing of various types at various venues) no longer do. People who won't own up and take responsibility for their actions along with our legal system which essentially encourages such behavior by rewarding them with money through bs settlements and judgements are destroying many freedoms. The legal system needs a major overhaul, but I think it will never happen (too many folks making too much money off the way it is).

[dmontzsta]

This sucks!! :cry: :cry: :cry: AVI is not a choice because the Laughlan Harley run is going on the last half of that week and it's always sold out!
Plus, all the proper manufactures would have to be present. Cause everyone will be going through them.
:)

[Kindsvater Flat]

So has the marina started issuing refund checks to those that have paid? I bet that will make a dent in the account.

[superdave013]

I'm putting through the strut exhaust on my sled.

[DaveA]

I'm putting through the strut exhaust on my sled.
Yup, time to gundrill the ol' propshaft on the v-drive and run a Y-pipe to the Casale. That oughta do it.....:rolleyes:
:mad:
.

[RICHARD TILL]

Theres Only One Good Lawyer, A Dead One!

[stickmann]

Don't forget the insurance companies and their risk management units call the shots. It's all about the minimization of risk.

[V-DRIVE VIDEO]

Its all SS Mike's fault!!! :)

[msmeads1]

"This sucks!! AVI is not a choice because the Laughlan Harley run is going on the last half of that week and it's always sold out!"
If the AVI is an option, change the date to ether before or after the Harley Run. Ni bid deal.
Any resort would welcome the revenue we would bring. I think the Marina is just a small run resort that is afraid of big brother. The Casino's have Insurance for every possible loss. Think about it? The sell booze, peolep gamble, there is a night club etc... To them, we would be just another 100 or so peolpe that are staying at there resort. Then next week another 100 or so peolpe will show up for there vacation and so on. No Big deal?
I am from nor cal, I have never stayed at this resort so I do not know anything about it? Pictures look good? The key would be is there a boat ramp on the property?
I'm in, just tell me where and when. Az, Cali, Hell I will even drive Rattle Can Lou's state if that's what we need to do?
Anyone? :cool:

[V-DRIVE VIDEO]

"This sucks!! AVI is not a choice because the Laughlan Harley run is going on the last half of that week and it's always sold out!"
If the AVI is an option, change the date to ether before or after the Harley Run. Ni bid deal.
Any resort would welcome the revenue we would bring. I think the Marina is just a small run resort that is afraid of big brother. The Casino's have Insurance for every possible loss. Think about it? The sell booze, peolep gamble, there is a night club etc... To them, we would be just another 100 or so peolpe that are staying at there resort. Then next week another 100 or so peolpe will show up for there vacation and so on. No Big deal?
I am from nor cal, I have never stayed at this resort so I do not know anything about it? Pictures look good? The key would be is there a boat ramp on the property?
I'm in, just tell me where and when. Az, Cali, Hell I will even drive Rattle Can Lou's state if that's what we need to do?
Anyone? :cool:
I like the AVI as well if with a gurantee the water will be up! Is that possible?

[Moneypitt]

No............

[You Te]

Billy,
You should have told the insurance guy the boats are v-drive lake boats.

[voodooCanoe]

This seems strang to me. Did you always reserve the park for the week or did everyone make their own reservations. If I called and reserved a spot for the week how can they deny me use of the river?? We camp at least 3 times a year in the same spot and have had 20+ hot boats and have NEVER even been asked or questioned about liability. Unless they control the water the liability could never fall on the park. Sounds like they might have something else greasing their plams $$$$. If it were the case that the camp ground could be held liable, then the same would hold true that any marina could be held liable for any accident on the water(water skiiing, tubing, wave runners, etc.) Something just doesn't add up???? Either way sorry to here it's over! :cry:
Sounds like a good time to be nice to the guy that owns the jet boat across the water. It possible he could have you all over at his house for the week :D

[BILLY.B]

Billy,
You should have told the insurance guy the boats are v-drive lake boats. To everybody that said thanks....No, THANK YOU!!!!. I always looked forward to seeing everybody. Some people you wouldn't see for a year, maybe two. But we always felt connected do to the love of v-drives, good times and lots of memories made. And You Te...I did tell them they were lake boats and that they spent most of the time on an anchor or on the trailer...Seriously I did say that. Doesn't matter. But let all those F%*KING personal water craft in the park because those are sure a safe deal. Especially with 2 passengers (16yrs old) running about 50mph and then turning right in front of a boater. Chances are you'd be sued (the boater) for your boat being to quiet and they didn't hear you. Especially if you followed all the noise limitations put on us by our goverment :mad: :mad:

[steve d]

Does the needles campground people own this section of land or do they lease from the BLM. Seems to me it's BLM. Never seen their specs on who can launch and who can't. Gotta believe if it's up to their discretion, it should be written as a disclosure when you sign up. You think they're going to do that?

[Schiada76]

Well just change the name from the "Needles Bash" to "Broke Back Boating".
If they mess with us still tell them they will sued for interfering with our "lifestyle" and assorted civil rights violations.
We'll all have to wear speeedos though. :idea: :supp: :2purples:
Wait a minute....................Chiefy in speedos. What could possibly be worth that torment? :rollside:

[Kurtis500]

Sorry for not following all the events leading up to this, but what kind of event was it suppose to be? Did the marina HAVE to know that there was an 'event' during that time? Was some form of organized racing going to take place that others had to know about? Besides making bulk reservations, I'm curious why the marina had to be involved at the level of including thier insurance carrier.

[rich]

I've never been to the needles bash was hoping to go this yr.I have stayed at Moabi resort it's big plenty of water,the water also moves a lot slower there and you have water sites also,just a thought.,you guys know best.

[wsuwrhr]

At moments like this I am so PROUD to be an American.
"The land of the free, and the home of the brave"
Like I have always said in my adult life, "It's a free country, that is what MY government tells me."
What a bunch of shit.
Fukers better refund my camp fees.
Brian

[Schiada76]

It doesn't sound like it's the marina. It's the same thing as your insurance company auditing your business or home. You want coverage you follow their demands.

[wsuwrhr]

One thing that still puzzles me, what is the park going to do?
Tell me I can't launch or camp there if I am towing a flatbottom?
give me a break, if I bring the jet or a trailer with 4 jet skis, everything will be kosher?
Sounds like a sign of the times.
I am glad our soldiers are fighting for OTHER peoples' freedoms, sounds like we need them here.
Brian

[wsuwrhr]

It doesn't sound like it's the marina. It's the same thing as your insurance company auditing your business or home. You want coverage you follow their demands.
Oh, it's not the marinas' fault, it's the insurance companys' fault?
If you want to go that direction, it really isn't the insurance companys' fault either. If it weren't for frivilous lawsuits, insurance companies wouldn't be so paranoid about covering their asses.
A few years ago, I got hurt at work, not a long term injury, but a pretty severe injury nonetheless. I didn't bring suit, my family and alot of others questioned why I didn't persue it. I got calls from SEVERAL injury lairs(lawyers) for weeks after the injury. Seemed awful concerned about my "recovery", yea, sure they were.
Interesting that my phone number got obtained. :notam: :notam: :notam:
Point of the story is:
I, and I alone, caused the accident and it was due to MY negligence, luckily I didn't hurt anyone else.
I got paid well to do a skilled job unsupervised, and when it all boiled down, I just didn't do my job that day, and I knew it. I didn't feel the accident was the companys' responsibity.
I wish people would take responsibility for their actions. It doesn't only have to do with boating either.
The way our country is headed has to do with the same issues, intead of relying on themselves, alot of people want someone to take care of them.
wuswrhrwithanupliftingpost.
Brian

[You Te]

How many accidents has the V-Drive bash had in the past, and what were the losses?
And if so, was the accident on the marina property?
Does the marina get sued because someone camps there and then goes out on the river and has an accident?
I suspect the truth is someone or some group of people complained about the noise or some other activity at the function.
In todays world all you have to do is play the insurance card.
WARNING...do not walk on the dock without a U.S. coast guard approved personal flotation device, OUR INSURANCE COMPANY prohibits such activity.
It's ok to run a bunch of tuna boats at WOT on a crowded river, but don't run a flat bottom at WOT on smooth water with no one around, you might make a ripple in the smooth water.

[Highlimit9000]

No............
I heard they are going to be flowing alot of water this year. Have Family and friends that live in BHC. From what I heard they will be slowly draining Powell and making Mead a more Primary reservoir. It is currently a secondary reservoir with Havasu and Mohave being primary...I can check...I have 2 boats on the water in BHC now. I can go down river and check for low spots at AVI. Can never hurt to check. I have grown up on this river. There are definelty some bad spots, not sure if they are In front of the AVI though...

[Snowboat]

Well this really blows. Work, no internet for a few days, and I come in from color sanding the boat (in preparation for Needles) and I find this. What a shame. I have never seen a more experienced crowd, or a more safety minded one. I was just starting to get the hang of boating near other V Drives and now this. I hope you can find a place for another outing. Anywhere within 1500 miles will suit me; I'd just prefer California.

[wsuwrhr]

So has the marina started issuing refund checks to those that have paid? I bet that will make a dent in the account.
No,
and,
I doubt it, the Harley run is the same weekend. Spots were pretty hard to come by already.
Hopefully the Harley riding guests(motorcycles float?) of Needles Marina that weekend will spark up a disagreement in the park, like they had in Laughlin years earlier.
Needles marina insurance agents will realize the best way to minimize risks is just to let the unlicensed bluehairs run into each other with golfcarts.
Brian

[Sanger D]

what ever happened to innocent until proven guilty!!!!!!!!! liability for what!!!!! until something bad happens , they should not have a problem with it.Nothing has ever gone wrong there, no fights, no rude nasty people,no littering, always treating needles marina employees with respect and a smile.this is truely a giant chunk o shit!!!!.... sorry to hear this Bill. I had alot of fun hangin out down there.Evenings when the sun was goin down and the air coolin off,water with a little chop, danm !!!!! good times. Its hot as hell here in the summer time but I,m fortunate I get to live here all year round, right across the street from the water!!!! we got our own lagoon and boat ramp, and NO homes south of us until you hit the avi!!!! plenty of parking so come on up and run here ANY time!!!..That goes for everyone!!!!!!! water is good and deep up here also.....I,m gonna miss all those guys all in one place together.............. :cry: :cry
Sanger D

[BILLY.B]

How many accidents has the V-Drive bash had in the past, and what were the losses?
And if so, was the accident on the marina property?
Does the marina get sued because someone camps there and then goes out on the river and has an accident?
There have been 2 accidents but no one was hurt to bad. And they weren't on Marina grounds. There was an accident back in 1979 where a kid (11yrs old) was severly injured while out on the river while riding a jet ski(unattended by his parents) the wrong direction. They sued the police, the ambulance company, city, and the park. Needles Marina's insurance company settled out of court for some huge #. Now the river is a federal navigated water way. What happens out there is your responsibility, not Needles Marina's. And there lawyer told them (Needles Marina) no problem, it won't cost you a thing....WRONG!!!!. :mad: . The liar settles out of court costting Needles Marina $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. That to me set a presidence. I would of counter sued the parents for mental disstress due to seeing the child after the accident happened. :mad: :mad: Again... The parents not taking responsibilty for there own actions.

[Moneypitt]

Billy, without pushing the knife in your back in any deeper, can you tell us exactly what type of boats are no longer welcome at Needles Marina Park. All v drives, all flatbottoms, all OT exhausted (jets too?), all NKRA members, etc. Just curious to the wording of rejection as stated. ........Ray

[wsuwrhr]

Billy, without pushing the knife in your back in any deeper, can you tell us exactly what type of boats are no longer welcome at Needles Marina Park. All v drives, all flatbottoms, all OT exhausted (jets too?), all NKRA members, etc. Just curious to the wording of rejection as stated. ........Ray
No boats at all are allowed, too much liability involved. Way too dangerous.
Harleys and bluehairs only
Brian

[Moneypitt]

Not even fishing boats? Pontoon boats, jet skis?..........WTF is going on here, are they closing the ramp down, berming the inlet? Lagoon?....Something smells really bad here. Time to find the charter for the river access agreement....MP

[wsuwrhr]

This is the letter I got in the mail today.
typed in it's entirety, abeit some errors or punctuation.
Dear Custumer,
Due to the liability of the V-Drive Weekend, otherwise known as Billy B. Vacation, and/or the Billy B Regatta found on the Hot Boat web page or in ***boat magazine, this once quaint and not so publicized weekend is now too big for Needles Marina Park to accomodate. Our insurance company has serious concerns regarding this event. The fact that these boats are launching from Needles Marina boat launch, and then showcasing these boats at high speed on the Needles Marina riverfront, poses a greater risk than normal and our insurance company has asked us not to sponsor this event. Therefore, we are informing all of those who have participated in this event in the past, or presently have plans to participate in this event, that the
V-Drive, Billy B. Vacation or the Billy B Regatta has been cancelled. Those who have reservations and want to cancel must do so two weeks before
their reservation. Those who want to keep their reservations for this wekeend are more than welcome to come and hang out, but please leave your V-Drive and K-boats at home or you will be asked to leave.
Sincerely,
(signed)
Rick and Jeannie Dirk

[Moneypitt]

WOW............That sucks...........So where to now. The Avi does have water later in the day, usually. As mentioned, there are some problem areas and it would need to be scouted........(my jet would work). What is the deal at Jack Smith, or Jones, whatever it is? And points downriver..........Ray

[wsuwrhr]

Now I understand the concerns, but the last lines are what concerns me.
I own two boats, both have 440's, both are considered ski boats, one is a V-drive, one is a jet.
So what I gathered is, the evil V-drive menace is not allowed, but my jet is more than welcome.
After a call to the friendly office of said marina park on Saturday, the lady answering the phone told me that "I wasn't welcome if I was coming with Billy's group."
She didn't know what to say when I inquired about why I couldn't bring my V-drive but my jet was OK. She then said that "(They) expected some questions regarding the letter when (they) sent the letters out."
So I was told by said friendly lady in the office that I have to wait until during the week when Jeannie would be available.
Brian

[Moneypitt]

[Quote]After a call to the friendly office of said marina park on Saturday, the lady answering the phone told me that "I wasn't welcome if I was coming with Billy's group."
Brian, and everyone else that will be making their cancelation call, use the US mail. Get your responses in writing, they may come in handy down the road. Seems like this is getting kind of PERSONAL............Ray
Never a lawyer around when you need one!!

[Kindsvater Flat]

Just say " Who's Billy?" Should be good to go.

[wsuwrhr]

Brian, and everyone else that will be making their cancelation call, use the US mail. Get your responses in writing, they may come in handy down the road. Seems like this is getting kind of PERSONAL............Ray
Never a lawyer around when you need one!!
WTF do I need a lawyer for? Never done me any good so far.....
We can't band together and DEMAND to use their private property.
Brian

[Beautiful Noise]

I like the AVI as well if with a gurantee the water will be up! Is that possible?
Jerry,If you remember I didn't even put my Boat in at CBBB last year in August till almost 2pm and the water was still kinda Low :cool:

[PLASTIC MAN]

Who exactly informed the insurance company of "exposure". Sounds like any park along the river or lake needs to close their doors to ALL boaters if the "risk of exposure" from people launching is naturally assumed by the park providing the ramp. This is such BS!! I wonder if the risk of Hells Angels, packing weapons is less than a bunch of 50+ year old's hanging around BSing about the old days of boating? One of the most important things I have noticed about the V-Drivers is their respect for the park, the people, and safety. I have never seen ANYONE so much has have a sip of alcohol if they are going to drive their V-Drive that day. That is not true of "today's boaters, but yet the risk is too great for Billy's Group? This gathering needs to find another location for sure. Big River seems to welcome V-Drivers, maybe those facilities can be checked out. We know how hard you worked to make this happen Billy, but, you were ramrodded for some reason.

[Rexone]

My take is that the Marina is caught in the middle here. Personal experience with insurance companies is my basis for stating this. It's also my understanding that in previous years Billy and the group got along well with the marina. So an about face without an outside cause just makes no sense.
Years ago Rex Marine manufactured an electrically operated fuel valve. It was a good product, we had no issues with it nor any failures that caused any kind of safety issue. Our insurance company saw it in our catalog (yeah we had one at the time) and I received the message from my agent. Basically it was gonna cost me about 20K (in early 1990's dollars) extra a year in liability insurance due to the presence of that valve in our product line. The valve didn't even produce that number in profit. Long story short that was the end of the Rex Marine Electric Fuel valve era. It sucked. But insurance companies can and do dictate how companies do business based on "their" perception of potential risk, not on any scientific study or even necessarily good logic. That is the reality of people who cannot take responsibility for their own actions and the trial lawyers who fuel this behavior. Good post above btw Brian. :)

[wsuwrhr]

Funny, I was just saying to myself, "Self, where is Rexone when you need him"
And then you were there...
Brian
My take is that the Marina is caught in the middle here. Personal experience with insurance companies is my basis for stating this. It's also my understanding that in previous years Billy and the group got along well with the marina. So an about face without an outside cause just makes no sense.
Years ago Rex Marine manufactured an electrically operated fuel valve. It was a good product, we had no issues with it nor any failures that caused any kind of safety issue. Our insurance company saw it in our catalog (yeah we had one at the time) and I received the message from my agent. Basically it was gonna cost me about 20K (in early 1990's dollars) extra a year in liability insurance due to the presence of that valve in our product line. The valve didn't even produce that number in profit. Long story short that was the end of the Rex Marine Electric Fuel valve era. It sucked. But insurance companies can and do dictate how companies do business based on "their" perception of potential risk, not on any scientific study or even necessarily good logic. That is the reality of people who cannot take responsibility for their own actions and the trial lawyers who fuel this behavior. Good post above btw Brian. :)

[wsuwrhr]

Good post above btw Brian. :)
Thanks Rex,
Stop doing that, you are going to make me cry.
Brian

[coolchange]

WOOOHOOO!! After 30+ years goin to the river and sometimes barely gettin out alive my 50 year old, thru transom-65 mph-40 year old boat, drivin fat ass has finally been banned!! I knew they'd catch up to me sooner or later. WOW I'm really feelin my oats now, I think I'm gonna run with scissors!!!!

[ColeTR2]

Get your responses in writing, they may come in handy down the road. Seems like this is getting kind of PERSONAL............Ray
Never a lawyer around when you need one!!
Comments like this will surely confirm to Needles Marina Park that they are making the right decision about having us there. Or anyone else WTF. Are you going to sue them? :rolleyes: Because they don't want our mostly illegal boats going 100+ infront of there camp grounds. It was good while it lasted. I would go and leave my boat at home just to see my friends. Making and whatcing hot passes is a very small part of the fun! And I'm sure the people that don't get that are the ones Needles don't want at there park. These are probably the same people that were told not to make hot pass in front of the park and still did anyway the last trip.

[Cs19]

What a bumm deal.
I wouldnt sweat it really,just find a new venue.There is plenty of intrest in the v-drive events to just move on to another location.

[Moneypitt]

Coletr2, I have launched and ran my watercooled log manifolded vdrive at the park once. I might have broken 45 MPH. If that qualifies as "one of the trouble makers" so be it. As far as convincing the Marina they made the right decision to throw a long time customer out, (Billy B) because of a misguided article in a magazine, anything I say will have little or NO impact on that decision. For me to vent here isn't against any rules here that I know of, and part of my vent is to state that what is going on is clearly discrimination against a group that has done nothing in the past to deserve it. Am I part of that group, not really.. Have I been there, yes. Does this really affect me personally, no. Does it, or should it, affect everyone that values civil rights and freedoms? I my opinion, Yes..............Rant over, I'm done.........Ray

[wsuwrhr]

Does it, or should it, affect everyone that values civil rights and freedoms? I my opinion, Yes..............Rant over, I'm done.........Ray
The land of the free and the home of the brave bud.
Don't forget it.
This is a free country right?
Brian

[Rexone]

Ray, what choice does the marina have if they're backed into the corner by their insurance company? I stongly feel this is the case. I doubt the marina "wanted" to tell Billy it's cancelled or to return everyone's money for that matter.
Billy tried (partially successful) some time ago to tone down the hype on this vacation. Unfortunately when something gets large with lots of people it draws (sometimes unwanted) attention, from media, from folks on the river, and from LE. My guess is that's what happened and that attention in turn got the attention of the marina's insurance carrier through whatever channel. That's that way this kind of shit usually goes down. I really don't feel the marina's being discriminatory here at least intentionally. They're getting dictated to by their insurance carrier what they can and cannot due under their insurance policy (which every business must have plenty of in today's litigeous society, thanks to people like the McDonalds hot coffee lady and the dumbass that tried to give the finger to Wendys, etc etc etc etc.). The absolute worst thing that could now happen is for someone to turn around and be a hardass and sue the marina for discrimination if anyone want's any hope of any other marina or venue EVER considering allowing this kind of vacation to exist on their property in the future. That is my worthless .02. :)

[You Te]

Because they don't want our mostly illegal boats going 100+ infront of there camp grounds.
Hold on now, I've been told these boats are lake boats.
It might have raised a few eyebrows when some boats showed up in an enclosed trailer with the boat on a dolly.
As far as 100+ in front of the camp ground I don't think the marina owns the river.
I'm glad this subject came up, now I know if I want to make some high speed passes I can launch at the Needles Marina, if something goes wrong and I get hurt I can sue them and they will settle out of court.$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Easy money.
I like that, its your fault, you let me launch my boat at your ramp.
It looks like you guys really have fun at the bash, hopefully you can find another place.

[steve d]

[QUOTE=Moneypitt]Coletr2, I have launched and ran my watercooled log manifolded vdrive at the park once. I might have broken 45 MPH. If that qualifies as "one of the trouble makers" so be it. As far as convincing the Marina they made the right decision to throw a long time customer out, (Billy B) because of a misguided article in a magazine, anything I say will have little or NO impact on that decision. For me to vent here isn't against any rules here that I know of, and part of my vent is to state that what is going on is clearly discrimination against a group that has done nothing in the past to deserve it. Am I part of that group, not really.. Have I been there, yes. Does this really affect me personally, no. Does it, or should it, affect everyone that values civil rights and freedoms? I my opinion, Yes..............Rant over, I
Like I said before---They need to disclose, in writing, who is welcome and who isn't--save alot of people alot of time. H.P. rating, length, safety inspection, DMV updates, v-drive or jet--etc. etc.....Steve

[wsuwrhr]

The shitty thing in my mind is, where else CAN it exist?
Race tracks "drying" up, places to operate these boats are drying up.
I don't know about upstream, but other places I have been downriver, are too shallow except for certain times in the day, have poor facilites, dirt camping, poor ramps ect ect. Needles seemed like the perfect place.
Not like you can boat on Havasu with the rest of the yachts.
Brian
Ray, what choice does the marina have if they're backed into the corner by their insurance company? I stongly feel this is the case. I doubt the marina "wanted" to tell Billy it's cancelled or to return everyone's money for that matter.
Billy tried (partially successful) some time ago to tone down the hype on this vacation. Unfortunately when something gets large with lots of people it draws (sometimes unwanted) attention, from media, from folks on the river, and from LE. My guess is that's what happened and that attention in turn got the attention of the marina's insurance carrier through whatever channel. That's that way this kind of shit usually goes down. I really don't feel the marina's being discriminatory here at least intentionally. They're getting dictated to by their insurance carrier what they can and cannot due under their insurance policy (which every business must have plenty of in today's litigeous society, thanks to people like the McDonalds hot coffee lady and the dumbass that tried to give the finger to Wendys, etc etc etc etc.). The absolute worst thing that could now happen is for someone to turn around and be a hardass and sue the marina for discrimination if anyone want's any hope of any other marina or venue EVER considering allowing this kind of vacation to exist on their property in the future. That is my worthless .02. :)

[steve d]

The shitty thing in my mind is, where else CAN it exist?
Race tracks "drying" up, places to operate these boats are drying up.
I don't know about upstream, but other places I have been downriver are too shallow, except for certain times in the day, have poor facilites, dirt camping, poor ramps ect ect. Needles seemed like the perfect place.
Not like you can boat on Havasu with the rest of the yachts.
Brian
You get past I-40 bridge, downstream and into the gorge, you'll be boating with the yachts, like it or not. Let me clarify this, the time of year we do this, the trawlers are at a minimum. Noticed as the gas prices went up, the amount of these vehicles went down.

[wsuwrhr]

Like I said before---They need to disclose, in writing, who is welcome and who isn't--save alot of people alot of time. H.P. rating, length, safety inspection, DMV updates, v-drive or jet--etc. etc.....Steve
I have never been to the park, other than WITH the group in question, but I can say that I don't doubt several other people will not return for any reason as well.
They are pretty far removed from the "action" as I see it.
Pretty far from campers going to Laughlin, and pretty far for campers going to Havasu. That may be good or bad, depending on the people you want to attract. I don't know what the park looks like throughout the summer season,
but I'm thinking chasing away a one good loyal custumer is no way to survive, especially when your good loyal custumer has a 1000 friends, insurance concerns or not. Seems that you find a way to please as many patrons as you can.
Seems like they are just trying to manage their risk, I just hope they made the right decision.
I will take my money elsewhere in the future, I know I won't be a big impact, but I can be sure not to make Needles Marina any more of a risk with my boats. I'm sure many people will feel the same, Needles Marina won't have any need for insurance.
BTW,
I know the web is a big place,
If the ***boat editor that allowed the verbage in the magazine reads this post, be advised that alot of people had the same reaction as I.
I frowned reading your article. In a worldwide magazine, that Needles was the place to be to see these boats. How did you think that kind of publicity was going to be good? What were you thinking.
Thanks,
Brian

[*BN*]

How about trying Blue Water Casino, they open stuff for special events. Kinda commercial I guess but you I assume nobody could sue the Indians, so why would they care?
I'm sure that week would be attractive to them if nothing else was going, and would probably attract even more peeps than normal.

[dmontzsta]

Its all Rex's fault. :)

[Highlimit9000]

I have never been to the park, other than WITH the group in question, but I can say that I don't doubt several other people will not return for any reason as well.
They are pretty far removed from the "action" as I see it.
Pretty far from campers going to Laughlin, and pretty far for campers going to Havasu. That may be good or bad, depending on the people you want to attract. I don't know what the park looks like throughout the summer season,
but I'm thinking chasing away a one good loyal custumer is no way to survive, especially when your good loyal custumer has a 1000 friends, insurance concerns or not. Seems that you find a way to please as many patrons as you can.
Seems like they are just trying to manage their risk, I just hope they made the right decision.
I will take my money elsewhere in the future, I know I won't be a big impact, but I can be sure not to make Needles Marina any more of a risk with my boats. I'm sure many people will feel the same, Needles Marina won't have any need for insurance.
BTW,
I know the web is a big place,
If the ***boat editor that allowed the verbage in the magazine reads this post, be advised that alot of people had the same reaction as I.
I frowned reading your article. In a worldwide magazine, that Needles was the place to be to see these boats. How did you think that kind of publicity was going to be good? What were you thinking.
Thanks,
Brian
:mad: Brian count me in also. You could not have said it better. My money will go elsewhere. And I will notify friends to take there money elsewhere also! Hope they can make there insurance premiums??? :mad:

[disco_charger]

None of you guys has openly said it, but I can smell some of you thinking it. This is not Jeannie and Rick's fault. I talked to Jeannie about this, last year. I go to Needles about 12X's a year. I have a slow jet boat, so no one pays attention to me. However, Jeannie has been fighting this for a long time. She wants you guys there. Like Rex says, the insurance company is calling the shot. Boycotting Needles Marina, or even just bad mouthing them hurts the people on your side. It sucks. I never was a part of the official vacation, but was there at the same time. I enjoyed you guys a hell of a lot more than the a-holes with the wakeboard boats blasting crappy music and running 10' off the bow of my anchored boat. :frown:

[ColeTR2]

Question if I go to a bar and they condone me getting drunk and I get on a federal highway and kill a family in my hot rod car do you think the bar could be sued? ABSOLUTLY!! Now that this has been publicised in a magazine it has changed everything for the park. It's no longer a vacation it's an annual event.
How about trying Blue Water Casino, they open stuff for special events. Kinda commercial I guess but you I assume nobody could sue the Indians, so why would they care? I'm sure that week would be attractive to them if nothing else was going, and would probably attract even more peeps than normal.
I have suggest this in the past and the responce is I can't show off making hot pass in front of everyone. It is a perfect place other than that. The water is always deep no current or wakes to swamp your boat nice big beach. All you have to do is go 200 yards up river to get out of the no wake zone and you have a 2 mile stretch of river with no houses nothing but desert.

[msmeads1]

The following was taken off the AVI web site.
"The beach is reminiscent of many Caribbean resorts. Here, some of the amenities you will find include a marina, boat launch area, watercraft rentals and a retail outlet for food, drinks, ice and supplies. For fishermen, the river is well-known for its abundance of striped bass.
Nestled in our private cove is one of the more exciting attractions on the river. Our conveniently located boat dock and marina are at the heart of our water sports center, which includes a launch ramp, fueling dock, and snack shop. It is a perfect haven for Sun worshipers. Our mini-mart is equipped with a smoke shop for tobacco connoisseurs. Fireworks are available for those in the mood to celebrate. Now open is a full service, over 260 space RV park. Groups, clubs and rallies welcome!" :boxed:
If we are going to be called a "group, club or rally" looks like they would love to have us?
I checked reservations the first week in May and they had rooms available?
I say we make a decission. AVI or Blue water? You guys with all the river expeiernce make the decission and let's go.
No reason to keep beating this dead horse, Needles Marina. :yuk:
We need Billy and the other leaders of the tribe to make the final call. I am just the indian and will follow. :cool:

[Rexone]

I'm thinking chasing away a one good loyal custumer is no way to survive, especially when your good loyal custumer has a 1000 friends, insurance concerns or not. Seems that you find a way to please as many patrons as you can.
Seems like they are just trying to manage their risk, I just hope they made the right decision.
You have got to be kidding. "insurance concerns or not".
Any business that operates without insurance will be out of business the first time anything happens, unless of course they're rich enough to "self insure", which I'm confident few if any in the boating industry are.
The marina has NO choice here. The insurance carrier told them "if you do this we won't write you". End of story. They have to have insurance. And its highly unlikely any other carrier would consider accepting them on any other terms so it's not like a just go down the street deal.
If blame needs to be applied, apply it where it belongs... the trial lawyers and our government for allowing this type of frivilous litigating to exist. That is what makes insurance companies make decisions of this nature. They are simply covering their asses because they've been burned by frivilous litigation too many times.
I do agree with you on the media coverage to the point it's unfortunate in this case. But then again it is the medias job to cover boating events and happenings and I've heard it time and time again on this forum people complaining about the poor coverage their race or event received. :)

[wsuwrhr]

You have got to be kidding. "insurance concerns or not".
Read sir,
"Seems that you find a way to please as many patrons as you can."

[Rexone]

Read sir,
"Seems that you find a way to please as many patrons as you can."
I agree with that statement but...
in this case you "have no way" to please this group of patrons "because" your insurance company has you by the balls. So... under those circumstances they are "complying" with your statement of "pleasing as many patrons as they can". They just have no means to do it here.
So beating up the marina is the wrong target. Everyone in this country should be beating up on their legislators who refuse to correct the system that this symptom is a result of.

[wsuwrhr]

I agree with that statement but...
in this case you "have no way" to please this group of patrons "because" your insurance company has you by the balls. So... under those circumstances they are "complying" with your statement of "pleasing as many patrons as they can". They just have no means to do it here.
I guess I was implying I wish they could have worked towards some type of compromise.
The letter states no V-drives or K boats.
Pretty vague or pretty direct, depends on what you are thinking.
Brian

[wsuwrhr]

Everyone in this country should be beating up on their legislators who refuse to correct the system that this symptom is a result of.
Fight the government, please, didn't take long for me to learn you I just voted in a new face.
The ball just rolls over anyone else trying to make a difference.
"Now call me a liar"
Brian

[Rexone]

Fight the government, please, didn't take long for me to learn you are just voting in a new face.
The ball just rolls over anyone else trying to make a difference.
"Now call me a liar"
Brian
That's because "few" ever take any action but "many" like to bitch (like us here for instance). It would take "many" pressuring the gov to change things and "continuous" pressure on the gov newbies too, no one shot fixes. But it'll never happen, you know it and I know it.
My point was don't beat up the marina, they aren't the cause, they're the result of a broken legislative and judicial system that will get worse before it gets better.
:)

[wsuwrhr]

That's because "few" ever take any action but "many" like to bitch (like us here for instance). It would take "many" pressuring the gov to change things and "continuous" pressure on the gov newbies too, no one shot fixes. But it'll never happen, you know it and I know it.
My point was don't beat up the marina, they aren't the cause, they're the result of a broken legislative and judicial system that will get worse before it gets better.
:)
Yes sir,
Brian

[wsuwrhr]

107 replies and 2200 veiws?
Im out.
CA'MON.
Brian

[Sherpa]

in defense of all this, it surely sounds like the owners/operators of the resort
have made their decision....... it sucks.
that being the case, you guys should give the resort new business.... like this:
suggest to all the "wakeboard" types, the girls gone wild types, the spring-
breakers, and other diviants, hold their functions there.......
join wakeboarding forums indicating how "open" the resort is to operating
wakeboard boats with full balast systems in their harbor.... that loud music
is very tolerated. even at 3am.
they'll end up thinking you guys were sent from heaven after a couple years
of that going on..........
no easy solution........ truly a loss...... especially they hyped-out the V-drives
and let in jets, the 120mph twin screw tunnels, the idiot jetski folk...
--Sherpa

[Roaddogg 4040]

Billile
I am wondering if the AVI or the Bluewater locations are feasable in any way. I know that they have allready been suggested but we havn't seen any type of response yet. I 'am sure that you are fed up the the gills with the insuranse BS and the lot, but we would sure like to see this event continue if there is any way that it can.
Thanks for all that you have done in the past. I know that there has been a ton of people that have enjoyed it.
Steve

[Highlimit9000]

I like the AVI as well if with a gurantee the water will be up! Is that possible?
:boxed: Looks like they will be 5% above average for Summer Months :boxed:
http://www.usbr.gov/lc/region/pao/rivops.html
http://www.usbr.gov/lc/region/g4000/riverdata/gage-map1-text.cfm
Lower Colorado River Operations Schedule
Releases from Davis and Parker dams will vary from about 8,000 cfs to 22,000 cfs
during a 24-hour period. River levels will vary during the 24-hour periods with
the higher levels coinciding with periods of peak hydroelectric power genera-
tion. Levels below the dams are usually highest during the afternoon and early
evening. Average daily releases may vary in response to changing conditions.
Average daily releases and midnight lake elevations for the week, as well as
anticipated averages for the following 2 weeks, are scheduled as follows:
Parker Davis Hoover Glen Cyn
Dam Lake Dam Lake Dam Lake Dam
Average Havasu Average Mohave Average Mead Average
Release Elev. Release Elev. Release Elev. Release
Date (cfs) (ft) (cfs) (ft) (cfs) (ft) (cfs)
---- ----- ---- ----- ---- ----- ---- -----
Jan 30 8000 446.9 12300 641.0 14700 1139.3 13000
Jan 31 8000 447.0 11800 641.1 14700 1139.2 13000
Feb 1 6500 447.2 10600 641.2 11700 1139.3 14400
Feb 2 7000 447.4 10600 641.2 11700 1139.3 14400
Feb 3 7500 447.4 10600 641.3 11700 1139.4 14400
Feb 4 8000 447.4 10600 641.2 10000 1139.5 14400
Feb 5 7500 447.5 10600 641.2 10000 1139.6 14400
Average 7500 11000 12100 14000
Feb 6 to
Feb 12 8400 447.1 10600 641.2 11000 1140.1 14400
Feb 13 to
Feb 19 8200 446.9 10600 641.2 11000 1140.7 14400
Current Lake Powell storage is 11,272 thousand acre-feet (KAF) (46 percent of
capacity). Lake Mead storage is 15,327 KAF (59 percent of capacity). Total
system storage is 34235 KAF (58 percent of capacity). Lake Powell elevation
is 3594.92 feet.
The Projected April-July forecast for the Colorado River is 8.3 million acre-
feet or 105 percent of average as of 30-Jan-2006.
Yesterday, the average Colorado River flows were 595 cfs near the Yuma Fourth
Avenue Bridge and 2,253 cfs at the Northerly International Boundary. The
average release from Painted Rock Dam was 0 cfs and Alamo Dam was 25 cfs. The
Morelos Dam diversions for the week of 30-Jan-2006 are expected to be 2,470 cfs.
ALL RIVER USERS should remember that fluctuating river flows may conceal or
create natural hazards such as moving sandbars, gravel bars, unstable
riverbanks, floating or submerged debris, or other unfamiliar obstacles.
Caution should be exercised while using the river between Davis Dam and the
Mexican Border at San Luis, Arizona.
Webmaster: Colleen Dwyer, cdwyer@lc.usbr.gov
Updated: January 27, 2006

[You Te]

Rex,
How would you like it if no one would insure boats any longer? Would that help your business?
Until people stick together and tell the Insurance companys to piss off they will always rule the world.

[wsuwrhr]

??
Please explain how this would be done.
Brian
Until people stick together and tell the Insurance companys to piss off they will always rule the world.

[WaterBox]

I have never been to the park, other than WITH the group in question, but I can say that I don't doubt several other people will not return for any reason as well.
They are pretty far removed from the "action" as I see it.
Pretty far from campers going to Laughlin, and pretty far for campers going to Havasu. That may be good or bad, depending on the people you want to attract. I don't know what the park looks like throughout the summer season,
but I'm thinking chasing away a one good loyal custumer is no way to survive, especially when your good loyal custumer has a 1000 friends, insurance concerns or not. Seems that you find a way to please as many patrons as you can.
Seems like they are just trying to manage their risk, I just hope they made the right decision.
I will take my money elsewhere in the future, I know I won't be a big impact, but I can be sure not to make Needles Marina any more of a risk with my boats. I'm sure many people will feel the same, Needles Marina won't have any need for insurance.
BTW,
I know the web is a big place,
If the ***boat editor that allowed the verbage in the magazine reads this post, be advised that alot of people had the same reaction as I.
I frowned reading your article. In a worldwide magazine, that Needles was the place to be to see these boats. How did you think that kind of publicity was going to be good? What were you thinking.
Thanks,
Brian
And the bad thing is that whether or not they are a sanctioned club, they shot themselves in the foot when they deemed themselves a racing association! N K R A.... Looks like the best deal for you guys would be post 101 Groups, clubs and rallies welcome. Good Luck.

[wsuwrhr]

And the bad thing is that whether or not they are a sanctioned club, they shot themselves in the foot when they deemed themselves a racing association! N K R A.... Looks like the best deal for you guys would be post 101 Groups, clubs and rallies welcome. Good Luck.
Yep.
Problem with the Avi, is the water is pretty rough during the weekend. I have never been there during the week though.
They had some pretty nice facilites though, I really liked it.
Brian

[DUNDUN]

i know i probably dont have a say in any of this stuff.. and ive never been to the avi.. so i am basically blind. but avi sounds more enjoyable than bluewater.. you have to idle out of the boueys.. then 2 miles up river its an ocean.. and its only a 16 mile stretch of river. so yeah havasu sounds better.. and if you launch from somewhere like takeoff point on havasu near the parker dam.. there is usually perfect water during the week. thats where i learned to ski haha.

[wsuwrhr]

And the bad thing is that whether or not they are a sanctioned club, they shot themselves in the foot when they deemed themselves a racing association! N K R A....
to a point yes,
NKRA or not, in the United States of America we are "allowed" freedom of speech and assembly.
Brian

[dossangers]

And the bad thing is that whether or not they are a sanctioned club, they shot themselves in the foot when they deemed themselves a racing association! N K R A.... Looks like the best deal for you guys would be post 101 Groups, clubs and rallies welcome. Good Luck.
BULLSHIT that was'nt it! It just got too BIG and ***boat mag F@#cked it up when they publised it was an EVENT in there MAG and were told not to!!!!!!Im still runing my boat on the river regardless! Face it were a bunch of OUTLAWS! so sell your v-drive and by a YUPPIE TUBB!! NOT IN MY LIFETIME!!!! :yuk: :yuk:

[superdave013]

that's it doss, blame it on a magazine write up. I'm sure full fields of blown alky flatbottoms running circles had nothing to do with it.
I went through the same thing 2 years ago when I lost my play ground. Yup I used to spend most weekends up in Big Bear riding my downhill bike at Snow Summit. Of course you have to sign a waiver to ride / race there and if you are under 18 your momma has to sign it.
Well during a NORBA race a guy ate $hit and went over the handle bars. That's something that just happens but this time he got paralized. His insurance company sued NORBA and Snow Summit (he had nothing to do with it but I'm sure still gets hate mail daily). So Summit axed the entier downhill program. Pretty much it was over for us before it even went to trial. In a nut shell they said that even if the case got droped right then that they had already spent so much money defending themselvs. it was no longer worth the risk.
I don't care how much the needles marina makes during that week. That's chump change compared to paying just for their defence in todays sue happy world.
I agree it's a bummer that it happened but I'm sure I'm not the only one who saw that one coming.

[63stevens]

I guess the next question would be. What do we do next? I don't know where to start but some way some how we have to stand our ground. If we don't, we are going to be pushed completely out and will have no place to play. Any ideas?

[BILLY.B]

OK...BOTTOM LINE!!!...As much as some of you think that this is Needles Marina's fault, it isn't. It still boils down to the judical system and all the stupid lawsuits that happen here in the state of California. There are only 4 insurance companys that will insure RV parks in the state of Ca. So I was told. With that said, Rick and Jeanne can't afford to lose the one they have. I had the opportunity to say some things to the insurance guy but I held back in fear that it would screw things up for the Marina later on down the road. They have always been super cool with all of us. Rick would always come to me and ask before doing something that he thought would piss me off. Like kicking someone out of the park becuase they didn't pay and snuck in, "saying they were friends of mine and it was ok". There were lots of things that added up to this......
1. Size. Even though most of this was word of mouth it just kept growing. Main reason???. Because it was a great time and a "BITCHIN" place to have it!!!.
2. People not listening when they should have!!!!!. When told to please not do something they'd go ahead and do it anyway. That only last so long before you wear out your welcome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
3. We had everything at arms length...Golf course. Had a hard time getting anyone to play. ("We want to watch the boats"). Even though we had all week to watch. But now that it's gone we'll wish we still had it.
Bitchin beaches.....
Clean rest rooms...
Laundry rooms...
Horse shoe pits....
Pool / Spa.. (Clean)
No dirt to speak of around the area where we were. Stuff stayed pretty clean for the most part....
Market's close by, and gas stations....
No sand bars on the down river side....
Topock for a couple of beers and a burger.
These are all the things that I feel we took for granted and that the next spot will be measured too.
Even though Needles Marina is the one who shut this down is was truly there insurance company who delivered the final blow. And you have to ask yourself. If there was a situation that did happen, and there was a lawsuit, would you step up to help out, or just silently fade away??????. I'd sure like to think that i'd have enough friends to help me out because my nutts were out there too. This started out as way to have people get together that had all the same passion as I do. The fun that I have. And a way to meet new friends. And last but not least, a way to look at some pretty cool boats that you may have never had the chance to see.
THIS BY NO MEANS IS THE END!!!!!!!!... As a group we won't let it die!!!!. It is way to much fun. Rattle Can Lou said it best when he said the next vacation would be off the chart. And it will be. If some of you guys that have looked into another spot want to dig alittle deeper and find out if we'd be welcome that would be great. I have some feeler's out already on a few new spots where we won't be bothered for along time to come, but I won't say until I know for sure......
Now the one thing that does bother me about the insurance company's decision is this....When I asked "what's the problem if we stay in the campground and launch at another ramp. Doesn't that take any liabilty away from the park. His comment was...NO!!!. It means that they (Needles Marina) is condoning what your doing!!!!. With that statement I wanted to reply with but wasn't quick enough. "Well a couple of years ago there were a couple of motorcycle guys shot a killed along hwy 40 by Ludlow, along with a shooting at one of the major casino's in Laughlin, not to mention all the other BS that goes along with the Laughlin bike week. So does that mean the Needles Marina Park is condoning that type of behavior when the bikers stay in the park that week?????. I really wanted to have a boat show and try to salvage what we had and maybe someday that will happen.
One final note.....Instead of brow beating the park, count your lucky stars we got to do it while we did.....F*%KING Insurance companys!!!! You pay them gobs of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ in the hope you'll never have to use them. Then when you do your to much of a liabilty and they drop you. Sounds like a pretty good SCAM to me!!!!! :mad:

[Dogballs]

I have been to the harley run for the last 9 years and stayed at the avi 3 years and the water was always high and the river was glass. If it was a week or two sooner it would ensure that the V-Drivers would have the cove and Hotel to themselves and would make for a bad ass deal.

[BILLY.B]

Whats there RV park like???. Is it close to the river or far away??. Hopefully not just in the parking lot.

[jjk94]

Its on the other side of the casino.

[wsuwrhr]

Whats there RV park like???. Is it close to the river or far away??. Hopefully not just in the parking lot.
The hotel is inbetween the RVPark and the river.
Looked like you were parking on improved ground, but mostly surrounded by dirt/rocks. No grass that I could see. Perhaps it has changed since I was there last.
CBBB puts on a pretty good showing, but in August, everyone was in the hotel. FlatBroke may be able to help you out with some details Bling.
Brian

[BILLY.B]

Its on the other side of the casino.NICE / clean????. Any BB-q's for HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUD?.

[wsuwrhr]

NICE / clean????. Any BB-q's for HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUD?.
They keep the place nice, the beach is badass.
launch ramp is 4 wide, a little bit in the current, but the water didn't come up until the afternoon.
Like i said, I didn't really inspect the RV park, but it didnt look appealing, basically a place to sleep, but not really a place to hang out.
Brian

[dmontzsta]

I agree, the beach is really nice. There is a nice dock and lookout to get a close shot of the boating.

[Rexone]

Isn't the water there a little iffy for flats (not deep enough when water is not up)? (I have never boated right near Avi so I'm just asking)

[wsuwrhr]

Isn't the water there a little iffy for flats (not deep enough when water is not up)? (I have never boated right near Avi so I'm just asking)
Billy see PM.
It didn't come up until the afternoon.
I coasted the jet across the sandbar to get into the lagoon at 6 AM. It wasn't very deep.
It was pretty rough out there in the afternoon with all the traffic.
I am sure during the week we would have the place mostly to ourselves.
Parking lot security was pretty good as well. I was working on my boat one night and a guard came up on a golfcart and was checking into what I was doing. Even gave me a ride back to the hotel when I finished up.
I really liked the place, I think it would be an ideal location.
Brian

[MikeF]

AVI (http://home.avicasino.com/)
They got a golf course too.
Looks like the RV park is next to the course. Lots of room for alot of peeps.
River shows some rocks below the dam, and some spots above. Might want to get a lowdown from Acceptance as he might survey that whole area to know for sure. :cool:

[wsuwrhr]

AVI (http://home.avicasino.com/)
They got a golf course too.
Looks like the RV park is next to the course. Lots of room for alot of peeps.
River shows some rocks below the dam, and some spots above. Might want to get a lowdown from Acceptance as he might survey that whole area to know for sure. :cool:
I was thinking, "too bad they didn't have a golf course, Billy would be in heaven."
But you are right, there was a course on the way to the hotel.
Brian

[Dogballs]

The RV Park is not on the water. But the parking lot, ramp and cove are all a stone through away and the indians would probably let v-drivers park their boats on the lawn. I was there for a hot rod show and there were rides parked all over the lawn all weenend. Plus if you have any issues you are dealing with tribal police and they are on a whole nother level if you know what I'm sayin. This would have to be the second or 4th weekend of April to avoid the Harley Run and still avoid the common boating folk.

[dossangers]

WE SHOULD'NT HAVE ANY WATER ISSUES THIS YEAR IT looks like there going to DUMP alot! but the water doesnt come up till 1 pm. I driven my cruiser from bullhaed all the way to havasu for 15 + years if you call the water report there has to be at least 12000 cfm minimun for v drives. Most of the summer is between 12k and 14500k of water. it does get tricky headed towards needles early in the day! Also the nevada cops patrol down to AVI and there REAL PRICKS they will write you for every frick'in thing they can find and then some they gave me a ticket once siting on the beach with my hydro! :220v: :220v:

[WaterBox]

WE SHOULD'NT HAVE ANY WATER ISSUES THIS YEAR IT looks like there going to DUMP alot! but the water doesnt come up till 1 pm. I driven my cruiser from bullhaed all the way to havasu for 15 + years if you call the water report there has to be at least 12000 cfm minimun for v drives. Most of the summer is between 12k and 14500k of water. it does get tricky headed towards needles early in the day! Also the nevada cops patrol down to AVI and there REAL PRICKS they will write you for every frick'in thing they can find and then some they gave me a ticket once siting on the beach with my hydro! :220v: :220v:
How can thet give ya a ticket for that??

[Highlimit9000]

Isn't the water there a little iffy for flats (not deep enough when water is not up)? (I have never boated right near Avi so I'm just asking)
I have a Pontoon on the River right now. I can take it down there within a week or two and snap some shots of the river and look for low spots. The river is usually Pretty high by noon and peaks around 2-3 PM. There is not alot of water running right now, so if it is pretty deep now, it will be plenty deep in April/May. They will be letting approx 5% more water out this year between April and July according to Dept if Interior. This is also when the river flows the highest due to Power consumption and Agriculture down stream. We can also check flow rates 2 weeks out as they are real time online. Billy What ever I can do, please dont hesitate to ask. John... :) :)

[dossangers]

[/B]
How can thet give ya a ticket for that??thats what i said after the ticket no float cushion and wrong fire extingisher !!! :220v:

[WaterBox]

thats what i said after the ticket no float cushion and wrong fire extingisher !!! :220v:
Was they checking everyone on the beach or just picked your deal out cause it looked fast? What's a ticket like that cost? :220v:

[You Te]

??
Please explain how this would be done.
Brian
1st..if the insurance company tells me how to run my business I tell them to eat shit. I have always been able to find another source for insurance.
2nd the business is a corp.
3rd. the business leases everything.
Can you figure out the rest?
If you can't, I'm not going to tell you.

[dossangers]

Was they checking everyone on the beach or just picked your deal out cause it looked fast? What's a ticket like that cost? :220v:Injected hydro bright yellow just an asshole nevada cop!

[scottys]

If nothing is planed to replace Needles I will be changeing my reservations to Park Moabi for the same dates.I have set that date for a vacation and my boat will be on the water.Thank you and have a nice day.

[BILLY.B]

1st..if the insurance company tells me how to run my business I tell them to eat shit. I have always been able to find another source for insurance.
2nd the business is a corp.
3rd. the business leases everything.
Can you figure out the rest?
1..If you can't, I'm not going to tell you.You may not of read my post stating that there are only 4 insurance companys that will deal with RV parks in the state of Ca....Something about being to exspensive and to many risk with lawsuits.
2. Needles Marina is not incorporated from what i've been told.
3. Needles Marina only leases a small part of land from the BLM. They own the rest.....

[rich]

If nothing is planed to replace Needles I will be changeing my reservations to Park Moabi for the same dates.I have set that date for a vacation and my boat will be on the water.Thank you and have a nice day.
I asked about Moabi in a earlier post we stay there for a week seen to be safe and clean, the ramp is great the water is deep you have plentey of straightaway to run is there something i'm missing just asking not tring to be a smart-a!! just tring to find a place to go to see your guys boats and to watch them run.

[wsuwrhr]

Ease off. I was only asking a question.
Brian
1st..if the insurance company tells me how to run my business I tell them to eat shit. I have always been able to find another source for insurance.
2nd the business is a corp.
3rd. the business leases everything.
Can you figure out the rest?
If you can't, I'm not going to tell you.

[wsuwrhr]

I asked about Moabi in a earlier post we stay there for a week seen to be safe and clean, the ramp is great the water is deep you have plentey of straightaway to run is there something i'm missing just asking not tring to be a smart-a!! just tring to find a place to go to see your guys boats and to watch them run.
Park Moabi is nice, camping kinds sucks because it is on unimproved ground. no power either, unless something has changed.
Brian

[You Te]

You may not of read my post stating that there are only 4 insurance companys that will deal with RV parks in the state of Ca....Something about being to exspensive and to many risk with lawsuits.
2. Needles Marina is not incorporated from what i've been told.
3. Needles Marina only leases a small part of land from the BLM. They own the rest.....
It's sounds like the Marina needs to do some homework or just shut down completely.
Hey that boat looks to fast you can't launch here.
No alcohol allowed.
No boat insurance, no launch.
No registation, no launch.
No horn, no life jackets, no throw cushion, no launch.
No single seat boats allowed.
I can go on and on and guess what, anyone can sue anyone, but you have to be able to win the suit.
One boat making a high speed pass with no other boats close by, no problem, two boats side by side and others boats paired up waiting and someone with a radar gun, that might be a problem.
Thats what I was told by the boat cop at BBSP.
I would think your event would be low rick.
Gook luck, I hope you guys find a place.

[V-DRIVE VIDEO]

I asked about Moabi in a earlier post we stay there for a week seen to be safe and clean, the ramp is great the water is deep you have plentey of straightaway to run is there something i'm missing just asking not tring to be a smart-a!! just tring to find a place to go to see your guys boats and to watch them run.
We tried a v-drive outing there. The 1/2 mile long idling sucks. If they would pave a road to the water side campsites and add a ramp maybe. Just my .02

[You Te]

Ease off. I was only asking a question.
Brian
No problem, I thought you wanted an answer.

[steve d]

Park Moabi is nice, camping kinds sucks because it is on unimproved ground. no power either, unless something has changed.
Brian
Brian---The park has elect. pedestals at every point ,some actually have four and five at one site I'm told. This has been in the last four years. The Park grounds have quite a few campsites with power. The concessionaires are pretty cool people and would bend over backwards to accomodate us. I have a trailer at this park---We've taken a pontoon boat, up river from Moabi to the Needles vacation for the last three years. Hardly anyone in the park or on the points. It has some issues for our group but I don't think it's a giant step down. I've enjoyed it for 30 yrs. Maybe an option........Steve

[wsuwrhr]

Cool deal Steve,
It probably has been that long since I have camped there, one of the former park rangers was a family friend, so we stayed at his house when we were there.
Brian
Brian---The park has elect. pedestals at every point ,some actually have four and five at one site I'm told. This has been in the last four years. The Park grounds have quite a few campsites with power. The concessionaires are pretty cool people and would bend over backwards to accomodate us. I have a trailer at this park---We've taken a pontoon boat, up river from Moabi to the Needles vacation for the last three years. Hardly anyone in the park or on the points. It has some issues for our group but I don't think it's a giant step down. I've enjoyed it for 30 yrs. Maybe an option........Steve

[Jack Black]

Steve, as far as Moabi goes, is using a 4x4 and launching from the beach between the points an option instead of launching and having to idle out to the river?

[scottys]

We tried a v-drive outing there. The 1/2 mile long idling sucks. If they would pave a road to the water side campsites and add a ramp maybe. Just my .02
A crushed asphalt road was put in to the point as well as a place to launch 100' from the river.The water depth is good.No motel accomidations though.

[steve d]

Steve, as far as Moabi goes, is using a 4x4 and launching from the beach between the points an option instead of launching and having to idle out to the river?
We had a gathering about 5yrs ago sponsered by Pete Kimble. He had the park put a makeshift dirt ramp in the channel 60yrds from the river. Pulled a 28ft playcraft tri toon out with a 4x4 extended cab chevy. This was last the second to last vacation....Steve

[INEEDAV]

You may not of read my post stating that there are only 4 insurance companys that will deal with RV parks in the state of Ca....Something about being to exspensive and to many risk with lawsuits.
Thats because of all you old decrepet boat hippies are breaking your hips all the time falling out of your rv's.
Surely they are running at least as a LLC or LLP if they are not incorporated, crazy if they don't. Way too much liability in something like that, not even considering the toys in the water.
By the way, sorry to hear about the shake up, only got to come down one day, but enjoyed the hell out of it.

[GofastRacer]

Thats because of all you old decrepet boat hippies are breaking your hips all the time falling out of your rv's.
Now is that a nice thing to say about all those old guys!, sheezzz!... :D

[V-DRIVE VIDEO]

A crushed asphalt road was put in to the point as well as a place to launch 100' from the river.The water depth is good.No motel accomidations though.
Thats hopeful! Needles is close enough for those who need a motel (me) :)

[h20skiracer]

I really hope that something can be worked out. This is truly one of those bs legal things that ruins it for the good people out there. I went to the needles trip 2x and I had the greatest time while I was there. It is too bad that v-drives are the "Lone Wolf" now in the boating scene. It is very unfortunate. Everyone and everything is somekind of a liability to someone, and the second that someone thinks something might happen all fun is put to a screeching hault.
I am sorry to hear about this Billy. Something will work out though.

[Moneypitt]

http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/21617337120107_0_BG.jpg

[steve d]

http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/21617337120107_0_BG.jpg
Insurance co. would jump all over this.

[BILLY.B]

http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/21617337120107_0_BG.jpg I think Greg Ewing (Acceptence) is not going to be happy when he see's you using his newest salvage boat as a joke.

[Moneypitt]

What joke? That is the new acceptable standard for you know where. On a different note, what would happen if a 4 wheel drive club wanted to stay at NMP and venture out into the desert during the day. Would NMP have liability if one of them wiped out in the desert? ......Ray

[dmontzsta]

I think Greg Ewing (Acceptence) is not going to be happy when he see's you using his newest salvage boat as a joke.
I hear Kim Hanson is coming down, he is the new member of Vessel Assist Needles. Greg offered him free housing on the vessel and payment in beer.
:)

[steve d]

What joke? That is the new acceptable standard for you know where. On a different note, what would happen if a 4 wheel drive club wanted to stay at NMP and venture out into the desert during the day. Would NMP have liability if one of them wiped out in the desert? ......Ray
If thinking goes along the same lines....as in the jet ski case, evryone possible would be named. Must be alot of sleep lost over there....Steve

[HavasuDreamin']

anyone can sue anyone, but you have to be able to win the suit.
UT....unfortunately that is not the case in our judicial system today. You are correct that anyone can sue anyone. That is part of the problem. The other part of the problem is that the case does not need to have any merrit, nor does it have to be won to throw someone into bankruptcy. The cost to defend against frivilous suits is astronomical, which is why so many cases are settled out of court. Bottom line, the frivilous suits and judges that allow them into court are completely out of hand and ruining the U.S. judicial system.
Solution....make the plaintiff pay all of the defendants court/legal costs should the case be thrown out.
One more thing....insurance companies SUCK.

[You Te]

Solution....make the plaintiff pay all of the defendants court/legal costs should the case be thrown out.
How about............ 90 days in a maximun security prison for all the plaintiffs and 120 days for the Attorney and or Attorneys plus a $ 500.00 a day fine for time served.

[ACCEPTENCE]

I think Greg Ewing (Acceptence) is not going to be happy when he see's you using his newest salvage boat as a joke.
Your killin me "B".
Thats not the newest salvage boat, thats the crew quarters for the workin folk when out on a salvage case.
Been thinkin of havin it repainted too Billy, ya up to it???
as far as the joke thing goes, I've always said:
It dosen't mattter if it's good or bad, as long as they are talkin about me!!!
...and you for one know, I'm always happy
Cheers, Greg
Vessel Assist Needles
(928) 788-1815

[dmontzsta]

Your killin me "B".
Thats not the newest salvage boat, thats the crew quarters for the workin folk when out on a salvage case.
Been thinkin of havin it repainted too Billy, ya up to it???
as far as the joke thing goes, I've always said:
It dosen't mattter if it's good or bad, as long as they are talkin about me!!!
...and you for one know, I'm always happy
Cheers, Greg
Vessel Assist Needles
(928) 788-1815
Is it true about Hanson? coming down to work for beer?

[wsuwrhr]

Wrongful death cigarette lawsuit? (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060202/ap_on_bi_ge/oregon_tobacco_ruling)
Now I am not saying I know anything about the case except what I read....
but this is my point, along the same lines, is there anyone on the planet that isn't aware smoking will KILL you?
Geez it is a pretty well known fact, and it IS printed on the packages with about the same warning, "smoking can KILL you"
Why can't people take responsibility for their own actions, and why does our legal system reward situations like this?
What do you guys think?
Brian

[wsuwrhr]

"Williams' family said he kept smoking because he did not believe a company would sell something that was truly harmful."
I hope he isn't related to anyone here, cause that guy, and his family for that matter, are all idiots, and now they are idiot millionaires. He did not believe a company would sell something that was truely harmful? Pleassssseeeeeeee....
Phillip Morris should counter-sue on the grounds of stupidity, it isn't their
problem to teach morons how to read.
"The $79.5 million award would be a windfall not only for the man's family, but for the state."
"Under state law, 60 percent of punitive damages in such cases go to the state, which in turn uses the money to support crime victims assistance programs"
Now wouldn't that be a conflict of interest? Sounds to me like the trial should be moved from Oregon for this reason alone. They have 18 million to gain if there is an award. 60% geez, the liar gets 33-1/3%, what a racket.
Brian

[Rexone]

Why can't people take responsibility for their own actions, and why does our legal system reward situations like this?
What do you guys think?
Brian
Brian if it makes no sense logically you can bet the reason is money and greed, pure and simple, because they know they (the litigants and the lawyers) can get away with it, and our politicians are too weak suck to pass laws to stop dumb shit like this. Most the politicians and judges are lawyers anyway.... yeah that works well. Its become a world where stupidity is protected and we are all paying the price with restrictive laws and regulations, huge insurance premiums, unjust settlements and judgements, and the resulting stifled progress in many areas that would otherwise flourish.

[TurboNova]

I am really bummed to hear about this, me and my brother Jeff came down from Washington State last year with our single turbo blow thru carb boat. We met allot of cool people and had allot of fun. We stayed at the marina for three days toward the end of the get together and then spent a couple of days at Havisu. Needles was a great place to have the "vacation" but there is always another place too. Hopefully this wasn't the last get together but if it was at least we made it once. After we left the Needles park we launched at the downtown park in Havisu and were told that we "can't run our type of boat here" it was too loud. I told the guy I would bet him $100 that is was under the decibel rating, he pulled out his gun and guess what... it was under. He couldn't believe it, he had to let us launch. I suspected that we might have some problems after that.
I am building a twin turbo 5.7 hemi boat that I was going to bring this year along with my brother's boat. If you guys re-schedule please post the new place and date.