This state (CA) is out of control

[My Man's Sportin' Wood]

Anyone ever swatted his/her child on the rump or smacked the hand? If this San Fransisco Victemcrat gets her way, you could go to jail. And then in 20 years, they will wonder why the youth are so out of control. I can't remember the last time I spanked my children, but I know I did. Especially with my strong-willed daughter. The little one practically punished himself. LOL My M.O. was I would say "No" once. The second time, they would get a smack on the hand. Pretty soon, "No" was enough and it still is.
What is your take on it? Spanking that is, and I don't mean with a belt or a switch. Just a bare hand on the backside. Seems like I only had to do it a couple of times, then the fear of it was enough to deter any unwanted behavior.
And furthermore, do you think a law will help deter child abuse?
California lawmaker proposes no-spanking law Fri Jan 19, 3:20 PM ET
LOS ANGELES (AFP) - A California lawmaker says she has proposed a law that would make spanking a small child a crime to be punished by jail time or a fine.
The bill, backed by Democrat Sally Lieber of San Francisco, a member of the state legislature, would outlaw spanking children three years old or younger and carry a possible penalty of jail time or a 1,000-dollar fine.
"I think it's pretty hard to argue you need to beat a child three years old or younger," said Lieber, who plans to introduce the bill next week.
The bill, which was still being drafted, would make the crime a misdemeanor and be written to ban "any striking of a child, any corporal punishment, smacking, hitting, punching, any of that," Lieber said.
The bill will likely pit those who advocate protecting children at all costs against lawmakers wary of government intervention creating a possible meddlesome "nanny state."
"Where do you stop?" said Republican Chuck Devore. "At what point are we going to say we should pass a bill that every parent has to read a minimum of 30 minutes every night to their child? This is right along those same lines."
California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, who has the authority to veto the bill if it is adopted, has so far avoided endorsing or rejecting the idea.
In an interview with the San Jose Mercury News, which first reported the proposal this week, the film-star-turned-politician said he was "smacked about everything" during his childhood in Austria.
"That was the way Austria worked," he told the newspaper. "You know, I think it maybe had something to do with after the war. People were maybe more angry and more frustrated, you know, having lost the war or whatever else."
The governor said he understood the desire to "get rid of the physical, the brutal behavior that some parents have."
And he added that he and his wife, Maria Shriver, have never hit their four children. "Absolutely not," he said.

[RitcheyRch]

Gov't getting too darn involved in our daily lives.

[OKIE-JET]

Maybe its why Arnie grew up to be Governor and not a piece of shit.

[Trailer Park Casanova]

Three of our kids are naturals,, they behave.
The fourth could have used some painfull help, strong will beyond anything I've ever seen ,, but jail today is more than just time behind bars,,, it's a pretty bad place for a parent to end up straightning out their kids.
So now he has to learn the hardway.
-------------------------------
Nope, we never hit the kids. But one of them I should'a, I really should have risked jail and staightened him out early, not let things get started.
Too late now.

[Ziggy]

The politics of this state and others are the reason for the degradation of our youth. Damn kids believe they have every right to do as they please, funded by the parents of course.
I cringe at the prospect of the future society in this great land of ours.
.
As a young child I respectfully feared the adults in my life, which is how it should be. Teachers had control of their classes by just reaching for the paddle. Today the kids mock it and hope the teach does something so they can sue..............
Its gone WAY to far. STOP controlling our personal lives.:devil:
.
No offense Angie, but without having read the Bill I just knew it had to have been authored by a woman. :rolleyes:

[boatnam2]

Three of our kids are naturals,, they behave.
The fourth could have used some painfull help, strong will beyond anything I've ever seen ,, but jail today is more than just time behind bars,,, it's a pretty bad place.
So now he has to learn the hardway.
-------------------------------
Nope, we never hit the kids. But one of them I shoulda, I really should have risked jail and staightened him out early.
Too late now.
what ever happened to your daughter tpc,she seemed to be in your posts all the time?did she ever live in parker?or head off to school?

[My Man's Sportin' Wood]

The politics of this state and others are the reason for the degradation of our youth. Damn kids believe they have every right to do as they please, funded by the parents of course.
I cringe at the prospect of the future society in this great land of ours.
.
As a young child I respectfully feared the adults in my life, which is how it should be. Teachers had control of their classes by just reaching for the paddle. Today the kids mock it and hope the teach does something so they can sue..............
Its gone WAY to far. STOP controlling our personal lives.:devil:
.
No offense Angie, but without having read the Bill I just knew it had to have been authored by a woman. :rolleyes:
No offense taken. It's too bad that most of the women in office are democraps. We need some good republican women in office. There are a few, but not enough. Things like this just make me want to throw up my hands and move to another country. Jefferson and Adams are rolling in their graves. This is NOT what they had in mind. :mad:

[Trailer Park Casanova]

what ever happened to your daughter tpc,she seemed to be in your posts all the time?did she ever live in parker?or head off to school?
She's off to school, works for the studios in wardrobe creation, living with her B/F,, occasionally makes a family appearance.
Thanks for asking.
Raising a 6 year old of my new wife.
He's a good, really fun kid. The thought of loosing fun trips to the river or dunes keeps him in line.
Following through with penalties when they act up is the key.

[Jetaholic]

I don't think it's so much the government as it is the parents that focked it up for us.
Originally spanking was just a way for us to get our kids attention and let them know "Hey, I'm not fockin' around" when nothing else seemed to work. Unfortunately, some parents react out of pure anger and have the intent of inflicting as much pain as they can to relieve their anger, thereby making their kids a "punching bag" of sorts used to relieve the stress of the parent.
If spanking is used properly I'm all for it. It's when it's abused then it becomes an issue.
But just goes to show...there's always a few idiots that gotta fock it up for the rest of us...

[uselessgrant]

All The Libs Need To Go Back To The Hole They Crawled Out Of And Leave Us Normal People Alone.. Whoop That Ass If Ya Gotta!!!

[Rexone]

Government needs to butt the fock out of a lot of things imo. This being one of them. :mad:

[centerhill condor]

bunch of women...

[Old Texan]

My 10 year old grandson and his buddies were horsing around and taught my 3 year old grandson a "funny" new trick, "walk up and hit someone in the balls". Neat trick, lots of giggles.
I walk into my living room and the little guy comes up and whacks me a good one catching my left "boy" pretty solid. After the intitial shock, I give him a good return whack across his backside. The giggling stopped abruptly. We reached an agreement and he isn't doing his "neat trick" anymore. The 10 year old posse lost 2 hours of their day to yard work. Lessons learned, yard raked, weeds pulled.
Leiber would better serve the public by promoting better funding of the Child Welfare folks and help them educate problem parents and police problems of child abuse and anger management issues. Her adding another law to the books is not the answer.

[Boatcop]

No offense taken. It's too bad that most of the women in office are democraps. We need some good republican women in office. There are a few, but not enough. Things like this just make me want to throw up my hands and move to another country. Jefferson and Adams are rolling in their graves. This is NOT what they had in mind. :mad:
Ann Coulter for President - '08.
Now as far as jail for spanking, my parents would be serving a life term. (I was a slow learner) :D

[river redy]

I beleive all the little bastards should get whats comming to them!!When I grew up the teachers had permission to whale on me and then I would come home and my dad would do it again, I would of been in a foster home if there was a law like this back then and my parents would have been on death row, BLAME DR. PHIL AND TIME OUT (WHAT A BUNCH OF SH@T) I feared hot wheels track and kept the trees trimed short those things leave marks:D

[OKIE-JET]

Yep, you can usualy tell who got that ass whooped as a kid, more often than not they grow to be productive and decent folk. You can also tell who didnt most of the time, Look in prison. Most of them dont know about limits, or were ever taught that there are consequences for every action.

[GRUNION]

I belive there was a study somtime ago That stated most succesful people were spanked as a child.

[BigDoug]

Prime example : while teaching at Kingman HS recently (special ed) two of my kids were in a fight with each other, when it was time to leave the bus driver would not take them home cause they were acting up again, she asked if i would ride the bus with her for fear of her life !!........."of course" i said, they went at it again and disrepected me..............i put both kids up against the bus window by their shirts and got in their face with a few kind words out of my mouth and let them know this was not going to be tolerated on my watch.
When they returned the next day, they were proper and had more respect for me and others (kids) knowing im not putting up with this.
I should've been fired but they didn't rat me out either :jawdrop:
This is one reason i got out of education !!!! :)

[Seadog]

My dad would never strike us when he was mad. But when he calmed down, that was a different story. I also remember quite a few visits to the 'board of education'. I hated it when they drilled holes in it to reduce wind resistance.
That being said, there is a difference between punishment and taking anger out on a kid. I think that a lot of the people in prison are those who were abused, ignored, or spoiled. Parenting should be a priveledge, but too often, we find that it is the stupid and slovenly that get pregnant. At the very least, we should work on prenatal care and parenting guidance being available and encouraged. Ideally, we would have a mentoring program and group assistance.

[RitcheyRch]

Growing up I didnt fear my Dad. I feared my Mom. I remember once taking the car out without her permission and she almost killed me. My Dad had to stop her from beating the living crap out of me. She still apologizes to me for it although knows it was for the best.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

You're only now figuring this one out? ;) Ca has been out of controll for well over a decade. :mad: Don't see it fixing any time soon.
Following through with penalties when they act up is the key.
That is EXACTLY right TPC.
If I can recall right, I've only been forced to smack either of my daughter's butts about once or twice. Aftert that, the reminder before reaching that level was all that was needed. They knew damn well that if I warned it, and was pushed another step, it WAS going to come, and that was no matter what the punishment was. I also was very rarely willing to reduce a punishment that was ruled, yes, it HAS happened, but took a large show of contrition (which usually meant work arround here) before anyone would dare beg for a break.
I have smacked a small one on the hand a time or 3 or 4 too, generally after "no" 2 or 3 times was proven to be not enough to deter them from reaching/grabbing for whatever it was they were after.
Being multiply married, I've always treated step kids the exact same, with the exact same demands for behavior, as my own. Mom was either supportive, or was hitting the road. I basically TAUGHT my 2nd ex that she had to be in charge, not let her 5 & 3 yr old run the show. They were a mess that were pretty straight after a couple months, then I left town for 3 months, and she let them take over, and dared to cry to me on the phone about it. It took about 3 weeks. I basically told her "You are 25 yr old, your kids are under 6, just who the hell is supposed to be in charge? Then BE IN CHARGE, NEVER, EVER reverse a decision (like "no, you can't have that" or "It's beditme, go.") without a hell of a good reason, and a kid's pestering is NEVER enough of a reason. Grow a spine and use it.".
I had been pretty much the "line" that stopped them from bugging mom after she made a decision, I would refuse to even let them ask her about it. They were forced to ask me, which made no progress.
Couple months later, they were pretty decent kids again.
She refused to listen to me about how her financial irresponsibility could jepordize my Mil carreer, but finally learned the truth of that later, AFTER she was put to the curb. Her kids tho are pretty decent now, in their late teens/20.
I actually offered one very disrespectful time, to to toe-to-toe with my current wife's oldest boy, the wrestler/foootball player if his crap didn't straighten out. It wasn't so much an offer as it was a warning to "froggy-boy" that he was sure welcome to "jump" whenever he wanted to, but that I would be there waiting when he landed to stomp a mudhole in his azz, and then walk it dry. I used just enough profanity to show I was pissed, and very serious, and put it in just enough of a snarl to show I was entirely in controll, and he was 1 step away from major pain. I then walked away from it without needing any apology from him, not forcing him to openly back down, kind of left it at a silent truce where every step was his, and I was waiting at the line in the sand. He did back down, because he did what he had been told to do, without further incident.
It only went there once, and never went farther, since the boy knew I was serious, and wasn't bluffing, and he wasn't at all sure he could take whatever I might pull out of my background, and he knew just enough of my past to make him sure he was unsure of taking me.
Mom & I talked a little about it later, w/o the kids arround, and she was behind me, backing the line I had drawn, but her silence on it to the kid, and to me in front of him, said the same thing, loudly to him.
My oldest daughter despises her mother, because the mean-tempered controll freak rules and punishes on a whim, and goes WAY overboard IMO (like refusing to go pick the girl up after work, a mile from home, in a driving rain in central Texas). THAT one goes into shirking parental responsibilities and my daughter doesn't even know what she has done to deserve it on this one, but something pissed her mom off.
The kid and I get along fine, even tho last summer visiting here she was in trouble and had my foot up her butt about 1/2 the visit. Trouble with me was over the rules violations, and she got exactly what she knew she would get, for the time I specified, every time.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Ann Coulter for President - '08.
I'm all for that.
Now as far as jail for spanking, my parents would be serving a life term. (I was a slow learner) :D
You weren't the only slow learner Boatcop :D although I had really fast days.
One time, EVER, I made a beg-fest in line at a grocery store really wanting a candy bar I think it was, I was arround 8 or so, I think. Mom said no, I started with the "please-fest", got about 20 secconds worth before a blinding flash struck me from behind/above and my knees buckled.
I had forgoten dad was standing behind me.
Dad had rolled his class ring arround to face his plam, and thunked me atop my head, once. Instantly I was more concerned about a public diplay of crying and not wetting my pants (damn it HURT!!!!) than I was in a Hershey Bar.
Dad never even said a word, he didn't need to, the point had been made.
"No" in public was good enough after that one for me, well, sometimes 1 "please", but if it no worky, ok, so be it.

[Dribble]

Everybody calm down now. Just because some idiot San Francisco lawmaker comes up witha an idiot San Francisco inspired bill, it doesn't mean that it's going to make it past the first committee, much less the House the Senate and the Governor's desk.

[centerhill condor]

At the very least, we should work on prenatal care and parenting guidance being available and encouraged. Ideally, we would have a mentoring program and group assistance.
we had that when I was younger...they called it a church.

[CA Stu]

Chuck Norris spanked his kid once.
We now know that kid as Halley's Comet.
Thanks
CA Stu

[OKIE-JET]

we had that when I was younger...they called it a church.
Yes they did.

[DILLIGAF]

I think there are enough laws on the books as it is. I have had to smack my granson on the hand and behind a couple of times. Seems he is like his father....and shit :)
Going to jail for something like a handsmack or buttsmack is going to far. Now, if you are beating the kid they should burn the aggresor in hell as far as I am concerned.

[Jetaholic]

Following through with penalties when they act up is the key.
AMEN TO THIS ONE!!! No offense to women or anything, but I notice a lot of moms that get all soft when it comes to punishing their children. Yes I know it hurts to have to do that to your kids...you don't want to see them suffer, but by not following through with penalties, eventually they will catch onto this and they will walk all over you for it.
Children don't have adult mentality...to kids it's all about them and what they can get away with regardless of who they have to take advantage of to do it.

[DILLIGAF]

Prime example : while teaching at Kingman HS recently (special ed) two of my kids were in a fight with each other, when it was time to leave the bus driver would not take them home cause they were acting up again, she asked if i would ride the bus with her for fear of her life !!........."of course" i said, they went at it again and disrepected me..............i put both kids up against the bus window by their shirts and got in their face with a few kind words out of my mouth and let them know this was not going to be tolerated on my watch.
When they returned the next day, they were proper and had more respect for me and others (kids) knowing im not putting up with this.
I should've been fired but they didn't rat me out either :jawdrop:
This is one reason i got out of education !!!! :)
Big "Teacher of the Year" Doug
lol

[eliminatedsprinter]

This is what you get when you put democrats in charge. If Davis was still gov. this would make it to law for sure. Arnold has had to veto lots of stuff like this since he has been in. They even passed a bill in the legislature that would have given 16 and 17 year olds the right to vote and 13, 14, and 15 year olds varrying fractions of a vote in state wide elections. :devil: Davis was a rubber stamp for this crazy legislature. Arnold my be more Democrat like than most of us would like, but he has, at least, used his veto pen and saved us from some stupid stuff that Davis wouldn't have. Hopefully he will veto this, if it passes through the state senate.

[Flyinbowtie]

The child abuse and corporal injury laws on the books in Ca. are quite functional as they are.
The legislator that authored this bill was interviewed on the news last night, and the reporter asked if many of the disciplinary choices we have made and our parents made while raising or generation would now be misdemeanors.
The woman replied, "The prosecutors out there will know when the case needs to proceed, the problem is that a child under the age of 3 doesn't associate a spanking with punishment for bad behavior"
So, she is authoring this law from a feel-good perspective, and because some pointy-head academic somewhere has used a huge federal grant to decide that kids don't learn from spankings.
And, she admits that she is going to lean on prosecutors, cops, and CPS workers to figure out how to apply her cockeyed law.
Some of this does come from the deeply entrenched liberal-elitist types that populate the Social Services establishment. More than once I had CPS workers try to get me to advise a parent they "couldn't" spank their child, and more than once I had to explain the concept of "reasonable parental discipline" to a worker who simply didn't personaly believe in spanking, no matter what the law was.
Everybody here is right that government getting involved in raising our children or telling us how to do so is a bad idea. Too many lawmakers focused on all the wrong stuff.
Until we get a helluva lot more people involved in the election process, and start showing up en masse to weed these weenies out via the ballot box, we can expect more of the same.

[Trailer Park Casanova]

No offense taken. It's too bad that most of the women in office are democraps. We need some good republican women in office. There are a few, but not enough. Things like this just make me want to throw up my hands and move to another country. Jefferson and Adams are rolling in their graves. This is NOT what they had in mind. :mad:
The Republican party won't back up women candidates.
The Offroad/Bluewater org's have backed plenty of good, qualified women,, but the Repub's usually stand behind some old looser that's been in the machine a spell.

[77charger]

When i was growing up and i messed up dad got out the belt or board and it hurt!But made less likely to act up even though i still did here and there Even told if with other family members and i got out of line they were allowed to spank too not just a home thing
Now that i am a parent when my son acts up he gets a spanking too he still hasnt learned but has gotten better :)
these days people have been too soft in discipline and it shows in todays kids kids act up in public and you spoank them people look at you like some abuser while there kids are out of control.I think they ought to bring back paddle boards in schools too

[eliminatedsprinter]

The Republican party won't back up women candidates.
The Offroad/Bluewater org's have backed plenty of good, qualified women,, but the Repub's usually stand behind some old looser that's been in the machine a spell.
Plenty of good woman republician candidates have lost elections here in Ca to flakey men and women who were backed by Ca's leftist orgs. We have to face the fact that, at present, the most powerful organiizations in Ca (ie Major Media, Unions, and Evironmental Groups) have been taken over by the political left. Every once in a while when the left goes too far and the negitive effects of what they do becomes too obvious to hide, the voters rise up (ie with prop 13 and the Davis recall). But these things take grass roots effort, because the Republician party here is just too weak to get as many people elected the way the Democrats and the groups who pull their strings can.

[Debbolas]

I'm not sure you can group mis-behavior by children on economic status, race or age. However it seems to me that parents raisng their children now are too concerned with "how" to do it, than actually doing it.
I know of children who have never been told the word "no" in their lives.
Children want boundries, they want to know what they can and can not do. It makes them feel safe, and they will test those boundries every now and again.

[ThongMagnet]

"Freedom" and the "Old Mighty Dollar" are what controls kids today and tomorrow. (Beating them really does no more than getting their attention).
As we grow up, we find the Old Mighty dollar kinda feeds the Freedom. :idea:
Another law does nothing, that common sense could prevent.

[RitcheyRch]

Too many parents not being parents and trying to be more like friends to their children.
AMEN TO THIS ONE!!! No offense to women or anything, but I notice a lot of moms that get all soft when it comes to punishing their children. Yes I know it hurts to have to do that to your kids...you don't want to see them suffer, but by not following through with penalties, eventually they will catch onto this and they will walk all over you for it.
Children don't have adult mentality...to kids it's all about them and what they can get away with regardless of who they have to take advantage of to do it.

[HCS]

Once Goverment steps into our homes to tell us what we can or can not do it's all over. Communism is so close in this country.
It's actually already here it's just gettin worse.
Pretty soon it will be illegal to drink alcohol in your house with your own kids present. Wait a minute....isn't that illegal too?

[Old Texan]

I personally feel one of the biggest problems I see in today's parents is offering children a choice in way too many everyday things. The show Super Nanny or whatever it is called backs this up in the couple of episodes I've watched. I see it with my grandkids too. A kid who hated brushing his teeth had the choice of a 1/2 dozen toothbrushes. It took him forever to pick.
Children under the age of 13-14, should basically be held to rules and the parents decisions as much as possible. Food choices are a primne example. When I was growing up, you ate what was cooked or you didn't eat. My grand kids hate 50% of what is served and often have to have induvidual selections just for them. Really grates on me and they don't like it when at Ol' Gramps house I give them "what's for dinner", eat it or go hungry. But when they're hungry they eat it.
Another thing I see and hear a lot about is kids wanting to sleep with the parents, often showing up in the middle of the night. My 2 kids were never allowed to come in our bed. At an early age if they woke up they went immediately back to their rooms and we never had any problems with them staying in their own beds and sleeping soundly through the night. I hear so many folks complaining about children getting up and waking the household and ending up with mommy and daddy.
Limit choices and stand firm on rules does wonders. And NO means NO.

[centerhill condor]

I give them "what's for dinner", eat it or go hungry. But when they're hungry they eat it.
Another thing I see and hear a lot about is kids wanting to sleep with the parents, often showing up in the middle of the night.
Limit choices and stand firm on rules does wonders. And NO means NO.
I asked my neighbor what he feeds his dog...he answered, dog food. He asked what do you feed yours?..I said turnip greens...He said, my dog wouldn't eat turnip greens...I said, mine wouldn't either...for a month. :eek:
My mom's cookin' was bad....but it trained our immune systems and we don't get sick. Never went hungry either.
Kids sleepin' with the parents come home to roost after college and then what?
No means no..mom can be firm with daddy but the kids walk all over her. A classic single mom problem.

[Mandelon]

They ought to make it illegal for the kids to misbehave..........:D then there'd be no need to spank em. :idea:

[Boatcop]

It's not just california, it seems. Read this article from Today's Havasu News:
Program rewards students for being good
Like most children, Doug Berry was petrified when he was called to the principal's office.
All the bad things he had done that week raced through his mind as he walked down the hallway.
“Do you know why you're in my office, Doug?” said Shannon Williams, Calvary Christian Academy's administrator.
Berry, a seventh-grader, shook his head.
“You're here because I want to congratulate you. I heard you gave another student money for a snack the other day. That was really nice of you. Good job,” she said.
This is the positive referral program. It's concept is unorthodox: Children are called to the principal's office not because they did something wrong but because they did something good.
Williams started the program in August to destigmatize what it means to have to go the principal's office.
“I don't want the principal's office to be a bad place to go,” she said. “I want the kids to trust me and to know that if they have issues or problems, they can come to my office because I love them and care about them.”
Students get a positive referral whenever a staff member sees them “making good choices,” Williams said.
Staff members have written more than 300 positive referrals since the program began. Williams said the school averages 10-12 a week.
Some students already have gotten three or four. Yet she said those students still “are a little scared” when they come to her office.
“That's probably because we conditioned them that way,” she said.
Berry said he nearly fainted when he was called to Williams' office.
“I thought that I was in trouble. I almost had a heart attack,” he said.
Despite that, he said he liked the program.
“It's a great thing to have. It's a good to know that you did something good,” he said.
His classmate, Julia Munoz, said the program has had an effect on students' behavior.
“It's good because kids are more influenced to do positive things because they get rewarded for it,” she said.
Seventh-grade teacher Reithal Mercer also has seen a difference. She said she hasn't noticed as much teasing or name-calling.
“It's a good way to motivate kids to behave appropriately,” she said. “Something like this may not seem like that big of a deal, but it is.”
Positive referral programs aren't limited just to Calvary Christian, the Lake Havasu Unified School District also runs several like-minded programs, according to Superintendent Gail Malay.
“All of our schools have some kind of program to reward good behavior,” she said. Friday.
Some examples include “Doughnuts with Danley” for straight “A” students at Starline Elementary and positive attitude trophies at several of the elementary schools. The elementary schools also offer bulletins and newsletters that are sent home to the parents to alert them to good behavior and student progress in addition to the normal honor roll and perfect attendance rewards.
City Editor Brian DiTullio contributed to this story.
You may contact the reporter at raap@havasunews.com
This is BS. It's not enough that we're being told that we can't punish kids, the way we see fit, now they're rewarding kids for doing what they SHOULD be doing in the first place.

[SHOTKALLIN]

This is really sad. Ca has enough real problems to fix. Instead of fixing them they come up with this touchy feely b.s. Its the tree huggers again. The funniest part about this is they don't want any new prisons in Ca. Where do they think they are gonna put all these kids who were never spanked (future criminals)? They better get to building them and fast.:D
just my .02

[Misogynist]

I had a step son that was really out of control. His mother never put concrete boundaries on his behavior. I never had a problem with him as long as she wasn't around. He knew Dad wouldn't tollerate any of his BS for a heartbeat and consequently behaved. I only had to sit him in the corner a couple of times a week for misbehaving, but I also had to be hyper-vigilant about his behavior. His mother let him do whatever he wanted when she was around and then would have to smack him to get him to behave.I used to fight constantly with the wife over her lack of descipline. She would play the trump card that I wasn't his father and couldn't tell her how to raise HER child. "He's my kid..... NOT YOURS", became her battle cry. I finally threw in the towel after a couple of years and last I heard Junior was "doing time"...:eek: You don't have to hit children to make them behave, but it sometimes is warrented. All I had to do was restrict his privileges and he would fall into line. BUT YOU HAVE TO BE CONSISTANT. ;)

[eliminatedsprinter]

Everybody calm down now. Just because some idiot San Francisco lawmaker comes up witha an idiot San Francisco inspired bill, it doesn't mean that it's going to make it past the first committee, much less the House the Senate and the Governor's desk.
Last I heard (fri night) it is sailing through the assembly. It may not make it through the state senate, but it is thought that it will, just not as easily as through the assembly. It will likely be vetoed by Arnold. He has had to veto lots of silly stuff like this, hopefully he will this as well. If we ever get another rubber stamp Democrat like Gray Davis as Gov with this legislature again, we will be right back in big doo doo...

[Seadog]

When I first got married, we lived in a trailer park. I spent the money to put up a fence for our dog. A few weeks later, we got an expensive ticket for allowing our dog to run lose. It turned out, the little girl down the street was letting it out of the yard. We confronted her parents about it and naturally, they were not willing to pay the fine. And when suggested she needed to be punished, they informed me that children must learn on their own and they do not believe in punishment. Worse, the trailer park would not allow me to lock the gate. It was soon after that, we bought our acreage in the country and moved. I do not have any neighbors within a half mile and I like it.

[Boatcop]

Heh, heh.
Seadog
Okie
Trailer park
There's one hell of joke in there someplace.
Nah. We don't stereotype around here.
:D

[Jetaholic]

Too many parents not being parents and trying to be more like friends to their children.
Well...in reference to the whole "friend" and "parent" thing, you can't just be one or the other. There does have to be a balance between the two. Become a friend to your kids, but know when to switch from the "friend" role to the "parent" role, and teach your kids that friends don't walk all over friends, friends don't disrespect friends, etc etc...you want to be close to your kids, and make them WANT to mind you. They are human beings after all, and humans are creatures of "want".
Of course, every kids' personality is different ...some kids are just born with a "I'm gonna do whatever I want no matter what" attitude, and who wants to be friends with someone like that? That's when ya gotta whoop dat azz!

[ratso]

My stepson by my last wife was Hell On Wheels...I loved that boy to death... She hated to discipline him... it was always 1......2......3...... and then instead of spanking or grounding him, she would yell at me to come handle it. Anyway, he would always go wherever I'd go, my little shadow. One day I was thinking to myself "If I hear 1......2......3...... again, I'm gonna pull my hair out"! Well, he eventually pulled another good one, and I immediately smacked him, he turned ten different shades of red, glared at me and yelled "What happened to 1..2..3.."!!!!???? Still lmao at that one to this day.:D

[My Man's Sportin' Wood]

I hate 1-2-3! Also, hate when parents make threats they have no intention of keeping. The kids aren't dumb. The know if you paid $50 a whack for Disneyland tickets you're not going to leave after an hour, or if you are out camping/boating whatever, you are not going to pack up and go home if they are out of line. Only threaten what you are actually willing to follow through on. . . and do it!
You know, we are all such a bunch of smarty pants on here when it comes to raising kids, maybe we should write a book :D

[YeLLowBoaT]

I hate 1-2-3! Also, hate when parents make threats they have no intention of keeping. The kids aren't dumb. The know if you paid $50 a whack for Disneyland tickets you're not going to leave after an hour, or if you are out camping/boating whatever, you are not going to pack up and go home if they are out of line. Only threaten what you are actually willing to follow through on. . . and do it!
You know, we are all such a bunch of smarty pants on here when it comes to raising kids, maybe we should write a book :D
you don't know me very well..... When I say something, I mean it.

[Blown 472]

Government needs to butt the fock out of a lot of things imo. This being one of them. :mad:
Ding

[HM]

Chuck Norris spanked his kid once.
We now know that kid as Halley's Comet.
Thanks
CA Stu
Fukkin Stu....always good for a ROTLMAO!
Back to spanking.....
I am someone who got spanked a LOT. Belt, paddles, hands, fly swatters, rulers and etc at both home and school. I think it was pretty ineffective, but I am not traumatized by it. Most of the time I knew I had it coming as I was quite the little smart ass....I know, it is so hard to believe!!!! I definitely don't think it should be a jailable offense.
The funny part about me being spanked is that I have two older sisters who used to do quite a bit of the spanking. They tried to convince me at one point that I had been abused and needed to seek counseling. Recently I was having a conversation with one of my older sisters and she was telling me that she had sought counseling because of the guilt she had for spanking me. I told her that I didn't have any harsh feelings for anyone who spanked me. But, I told her that is bitter sweet to see that she was the one seeking couseling! Then she remembered why I got spanked so much.

[Jetaholic]

Imagine if we got spanked for every crass thing we've ever said on Hot Boat...:D

[Old Texan]

Fukkin Stu....always good for a ROTLMAO!
Back to spanking.....
I am someone who got spanked a LOT. Belt, paddles, hands, fly swatters, rulers and etc at both home and school. I think it was pretty ineffective, but I am not traumatized by it. Most of the time I knew I had it coming as I was quite the little smart ass....I know, it is so hard to believe!!!! I definitely don't think it should be a jailable offense.
The funny part about me being spanked is that I have two older sisters who used to do quite a bit of the spanking. They tried to convince me at one point that I had been abused and needed to seek counseling. Recently I was having a conversation with one of my older sisters and she was telling me that she had sought counseling because of the guilt she had for spanking me. I told her that I didn't have any harsh feelings for anyone who spanked me. But, I told her that is bitter sweet to see that she was the one seeking couseling! Then she remembered why I got spanked so much.
My Mother used to spank me with the old metal coat hanger like fly swatter. Around 10-11 yrs old or so I'd grab the swatter from her, twist it all outta shape, and run with her threatening me with the old "Just wait until your Dad gets home mister...."
I am proof spanking doesn't adversely effect smartasses.:devil:

[ratso]

Imagine if we got spanked for every crass thing we've ever said on Hot Boat...:D
If it's some of the ***boat Chicks doing the spanking, then it can't be all that bad...http://***boat.com/ubb/graemlins/idea_2.gif

[Miss BK]

More on the proposal.......Just read that this proposal is *ONLY* for hitting children under 3.
We're talking *BABIES* here. Would any of you think it was okay to hit a baby?
Toddlers at this stage will copy whatever you do - they won't understand why you are hitting, but at that age they will no doubt be encouraged to start hitting others.
I've seen parents take 2 year olds out past 10pm - of course the kid is going to act up - that's what they do when they are tired and need to be in bed! It's not the childs fault. The parents just aren't skilled enough to figure out what's making the kid go nuts....and so they hit them.
So as far as this proposal goes, why not make it a crime? If a parent thinks he has no choice but to hit a baby, he needs some immediate parenting help, IMO.

[My Man's Sportin' Wood]

While I agree with you on some points, where will they draw the line? Is smacking a 2 year-olds hand who won't stop touching aunties glass fruit on the coffee table considered corporal punishment? What about if they want to touch the woodburning stove? I used to tap my daughter on the rump every time she wanted to stand up in the tub. She only did it a couple of times. If I had tried to force her down, it would have merely been a battle of wills.

[Miss BK]

I don't see anything wrong with a battle of wills. I have two very strong-willed boys (10 & 13) and boy did we had many of those "battle of wills". :)
Seriously, when you invest the time, you have much better results because they are respecting your advice instead of just fearing the pain. Talking to a two year old on his level is by far, the BEST way to get them to learn to stop doing something. If they still don't stop - put them in time-out - and stick it out til they understand they did wrong - This is the ONLY way your "will" is going to always win.
There's just no way could I ever intentionally inflict pain on my kids. You do have a choice and a better plan of action, one that usually ends with a hug. I am thankful I never had to rely on inflicting any kind of pain for them to get my message. Anyone can do it - on any type of kid.

[HM]

More on the proposal.......Just read that this proposal is *ONLY* for hitting children under 3.
We're talking *BABIES* here. Would any of you think it was okay to hit a baby?
Toddlers at this stage will copy whatever you do - they won't understand why you are hitting, but at that age they will no doubt be encouraged to start hitting others.
2-3 year olds are not *BABIES*...they are toddlers and probably the age in which "spanking" is most effective - if you beleive in spanking.
I have 3 kids (6,4,2) and one due in june. I don't spank my kids as I deem it largely ineffective and so does my wife.
But, what scares me is allowing the government more ability to invade our personal lives. We know that the people that the law was written for RARELY is the target of these laws because the ACLU will come to their rescue. It is normal and caring parents will have their lives destroyed and then face having to try and get their kids back from the government because some zealot who probably doesn't even have kids called Family Services.

[HM]

Most of these arguments are made by women who don't want to inflict pain on their kids when they don't realize that the point is NOT pain. So, like Angie says, touches the wood burning stove and burns his or her hands with 2nd or 3rd degree burns....how about that pain? What protective mommies don't realize is that life is pain. But, when they are kids, the pain and consequences are much more affordable and much less painful than when they get into the real world. It is our jobs as parents to train our children for the real world...and protecting them from all pain only sets them up for the greatest amount of pain when they enter the real world.
My first child touched the glass on our fireplace and got 2nd degree burns. We took him to the ER and the first thing they did was check for more signs of abuse and then separated my wife and I and asked us questions to see if we had our stories straight. They did not treat our child until they were done with their interogations! That kind of shit makes me want to kick the shit out of all these zealots.
Spanking kids is hardly traumatic...this being said by someone who was spanked so much as a kid that two of my sisters had to seek counseling because of their guilt for spanking me. They still try to insist that I was abused. I was ONLY spanked...I was not slapped in the face, I was not made to bleed, just spanked. I got over it...usually about 5 minutes after it happened!!! I don't hold any grudges or hatred or any hard feelings. I just know that spanking doesn't work real well especially when used regularly. Like Angie said...when they are about to do something that will cause a lot more pain than spanking to them or to someone else I can see that working.
And the people who are "anti-spanking" to the point of forcing their views on other people and who also have kids usually have the worst behaved kids around. They say things like "kids will be kids" and I usually respond with "Yep, and now it is time for parents to be parents."
If a child is being abused...then that is ALREADY a criminal act. What makes anyone think that a child abuser might actually stop and say to themselves...."You know, I'd like to abuse my kid. But, they passed a new law making spanking my kid illegal, so I guess I will stop. Damn, foiled again." This type of irrational thinking is the same flawed thinking by the anti-gun zealots who don't seem to realize that murderers don't really care about any laws since they are commiting the largest possible crime without regard.

[OKIE-JET]

If little jonny has the desire to run out in traffic, or continually tries to touch the wood stove, he's gettin that ass whooped. I would prefer not to bury my child or see him maimed in any way simply cause his will was stronger than mine for that fleeting moment, a moment that cant be reversed. I also have no desire to see jonny only on visitation day cause he has no real world concept of consequences that OTHERS will inflict upon him if he fu%ks up in the adult world. Remember that no one in this world loves your children like you do.

[All-Star]

I feared hot wheels track and kept the trees trimed short those things leave marks:D
Yeah those damn Orange Hot wheels tracks... left tracks on your a$$ for sure. My brother and I got together and melted them all so my Dad could not use them anymore.
I think it is ok to swat a child to get their attention. But as stated earlier, there are always those freaks that push it to the extreme and ruin it for the normal people.
I also think that if parents were consistant in their commands and threats and actually followed through then there would be less of a need to spank. Be caus ethe kids would know that you mean what you say.
I do not want to be Hypocritical, becuase I am still working on this myself.
Just my 2 cents

[HM]

Yeah those damn Orange Hot wheels tracks... left tracks on your a$$ for sure. My brother and I got together and melted them all so my Dad could not use them anymore.
I think it is ok to swat a child to get their attention. But as stated earlier, there are always those freaks that push it to the extreme and ruin it for the normal people.
I also think that if parents were consistant in their commands and threats and actually followed through then there would be less of a need to spank. Be caus ethe kids would know that you mean what you say.
I do not want to be Hypocritical, becuase I am still working on this myself.
Just my 2 cents
Child abuse is already illegal. Why would making "spanking" illegal stop these people?

[OKIE-JET]

If a child is being abused...then that is ALREADY a criminal act. What makes anyone think that a child abuser might actually stop and say to themselves...."You know, I'd like to abuse my kid. But, they passed a new law making spanking my kid illegal, so I guess I will stop. Damn, foiled again." This type of irrational thinking is the same flawed thinking by the anti-gun zealots who don't seem to realize that murderers don't really care about any laws since they are commiting the largest possible crime without regard.
So true. Laws only matter to those who are law abbiding. Like more laws will make them rethink thier actions....LMAO!

[Miss BK]

Keep in mind...
This proposal is about stopping people from hitting BABIES. Which currently is OKAY because no current law says smacking a baby is wrong. Would you like to see a parent constantly smacking an 18 month old baby, and no one be able to tell them to stop it ? Not me.
My 3 year old kids NEVER ran out in the street, despite my lack of whacking skills. No child has to be hit to learn important lessons. If he does, the parents are clearly needing to take some classes. There are many other ways to teach kids this important stuff.
All Star is absolutely right here. I recently spent a week with a mother who reinforced negative behavior of her 2 year old by not following through on the punishment. Hanging out with the toddler who isn't learning that "no" means "no", and there are no exceptions - was pure misery. It wasn't the lack of spanking doing it, it was the lack of sacrifice. (ie: taking the time to follow thru).
Spanking/smacking/hitting/slapping/paddling is *ALL* about inflicting physical pain and fear, and takes no parenting skills to master. Sitting in a corner for 15 minutes results in the same outcome - but without being taught aggression and retaliation. So instead of focusing on how much it hurt, the kid can now put all focus on why his actions were wrong. And believe me, kids who learn to how to reason early on, are far more fun to raise.
But this also takes more patience, smarts and sacrifice on the part of the parents, which also needs to be addressed when proposing this law.

[ratso]

I remember it like yesterday... I was 16... my mom slapped me... I slapped her right back... she never laid a hand on me again.

[Debbolas]

I think effective parenting is taking away something the child wants when you are punishing them.
Sometimes you have to spank, but it's a last resort when all else fails. I've seen TOO many parents "talking" to their 6month old about NOT pulling the fireplace screen over on their heads! And children who have NEVER heard the word NO!
Our oldest (who is 20 today :D) Could care less if we took away the TV or spanked her....If we took her books away so she couldn't read....it was the end of the world and she straighted right up.
A law isn't going to do anything.
You should never create a law you can not enforce.....:idea:

[Boatcop]

Would it still be legal to spank your monkey? :confused:

[Biglue]

Keep in mind...
This proposal is about stopping people from hitting BABIES. Which currently is OKAY because no current law says smacking a baby is wrong. Would you like to see a parent constantly smacking an 18 month old baby, and no one be able to tell them to stop it ? Not me.
My 3 year old kids NEVER ran out in the street, despite my lack of whacking skills. No child has to be hit to learn important lessons. If he does, the parents are clearly needing to take some classes. There are many other ways to teach kids this important stuff.
All Star is absolutely right here. I recently spent a week with a mother who reinforced negative behavior of her 2 year old by not following through on the punishment. Hanging out with the toddler who isn't learning that "no" means "no", and there are no exceptions - was pure misery. It wasn't the lack of spanking doing it, it was the lack of sacrifice. (ie: taking the time to follow thru).
Spanking/smacking/hitting/slapping/paddling is *ALL* about inflicting physical pain and fear, and takes no parenting skills to master. Sitting in a corner for 15 minutes results in the same outcome - but without being taught aggression and retaliation. So instead of focusing on how much it hurt, the kid can now put all focus on why his actions were wrong. And believe me, kids who learn to how to reason early on, are far more fun to raise.
But this also takes more patience, smarts and sacrifice on the part of the parents, which also needs to be addressed when proposing this law.
If a parent can get their message across with your tactics that's fine. I think the part that is getting past you is the "strong willed" kids. I have 3 kids. 9,8, and soon to be 3. My little one is fearless, curious and strong willed. He will not back down from what he wants to do. I have done the "don't do this" the "bad boy chair" deals with him. They will only work sometimes. Every now and then he will get his butt swatted. Once he calms down he backs off what he wants to do.
I disagree with such a soft discipline measure as far as "time outs" and so forth. I believe kids need very obvious boundaries and reality checks when they push those boundaries. It is easier to impose those boundaries when they are young. I remember being spanked as a kid and it kept me from making wrong choices. I learned consequences after pushing the limits. I'm not sure one can teach strong willed kids boundaries with "time outs". Just my .02

[Sleek-Jet]

I don't really have a dog in this hunt...
But this is more feel good, BS legislation.
Child abuse is already illegal... raising your kids to know there are real and swift penalties should not be.

[Sportin' Wood]

I don't really have a dog in this hunt.
You don't beat your dog do ya?:D
Angie is just mean, heck she even spanks me.......When I'm a bad boy!:devil:
The great thing about raising kids is that there is no manual and you have no way to know if you did it right till its too late. I debate the subject regularly with a co worker. For the last 10 years I have watched as she tells me I'm doing it all wrong. So far I think I'm right but I have 3-4 more years till we can square up on who was a better parent. Knocking the wife around is not legal but they still sell Budweiser beer and wife beater T-shirts:D I'm for less is more but what do I know, I still drive around and talk on my cell phone. I'm such a rebel that way!:D

[lawbreaker2]

My one son got in to it with his mother one day, and he push her, That is not going to happen in my house, so, he wen tthough th ewall head first, I think he was about 7 or 8 at the time, now he is 15 and since then, I have never had a problem with him, but my other sone who I did not do that to and always let thing slide, is 14 and Man I should have put his head though the wall too, cuz he is out of control some times.:mad: Sometimes you just don't know what is right or wrong.

[lawbreaker2]

Oh by the way, my 15 year old is 6ft 3 and 190LBS.:idea: I don't spank him anymore, He's wayyyyyyy bigger than me.:rolleyes: