bbf procomp heads

[tahiti cowboy]

who's got the best price on procomps bbf heads with the 95cc chambers bare I have every thing else except studs and guide plates butt I thinks thos come with it

[ENGBLDR]

Contact JMS Racing Engines at jmsracingengines@hotmail.com.. They can get you WD on the Pro Comp heads. Mention the Hot Boat forum...

[Ralph Brunt]

pm jim brock he has a bare set
cyclone speed and marine 818 890 1867
should be in the shop around 10 am
ralph

[roostwear]

Just curious... with the flow of ProComps and the big chambers, why would you want them?

[Ralph Brunt]

i dont know either. i just know jim has a set

[FILUCKY]

I've heard that they don't flow the numbers they claim and also need alot of port work and bowl cleanup to get them to run good. By the time you spend that kind of money why not just go with some SCJ's or TFS's? You'll still spend a few hundred more but you will make alot better power.:)

[LakesOnly]

who's got the best price on procomps bbf heads with the 95cc chambers bare I have every thing else except studs and guide plates butt I thinks thos come with itWe are a ProCrap dealer, and yet I refuse to sell the Ford 460 ProCrap cylinder head. If you want chebby ProCrap heads I'll sell them to you...but I won't sell the ProCrap Ford 460 heads. I have too much respect for the engine.
Can't tell you how many times I picked one of those heads up at the shop, rolled it around in my lap, get to the intake port and just want to THROW that ProCrap head across the room! For a few hundred more fully assembled, I'll take the out-of-the-box TFS 429/460 heads--thank you very much.
These ProCrap heads offer little more than an opportunity for a chebby guy to unwittingly boast, "I just beat the snot out of an aluminum-headed big block Ford!" Of course they wouldn't likely realize that the aluminum ProCrap heads on the Ford engine probably hurt it's performance more than ANY OTHER aluminum head currently out there.
LO

[LakesOnly]

I've heard that they don't flow the numbers they claim and also need alot of port work and bowl cleanup to get them to run good. By the time you spend that kind of money why not just go with some SCJ's or TFS's? You'll still spend a few hundred more but you will make alot better power.:)Bam! Right there! This is your answer, TC.
LO

[steelcomp]

No, THIS is your answer.
I looked at these last year and decided not to buy. There are a number of guys here in the US who put their hard work, time, and investment to come up woth decent cyl head designs. I've been in hard core cyl heads for almost 20 years, and I can tell you, it's not an easy thing to design, and design right, have manyfactured, do the prototype work, fix the bugs, and develope a finished working product. If you want to support some Chinese company that just comes along and rips off the hard work of us here, then makes a cheap copy with no r&d, no design or time investment of their own, only to lowball our market, lie with thier advertizing, and have someone think they're getting a good deal because they're cheap, then don't complain when the rest of us just say f!uck it, and quit designing this stuff. It's crap. it's mis-advertized, and it's taking money out of honest, hard working American performance engineer's pockets. You'll get what you pay for...especially in the long run.

[LakesOnly]

No, THIS is your answer.
I looked at these last year and decided not to buy. There are a number of guys here in the US who put their hard work, time, and investment to come up woth decent cyl head designs. I've been in hard core cyl heads for almost 20 years, and I can tell you, it's not an easy thing to design, and design right, have manyfactured, do the prototype work, fix the bugs, and develope a finished working product. If you want to support some Chinese company that just comes along and rips off the hard work of us here, then makes a cheap copy with no r&d, no design or time investment of their own, only to lowball our market, lie with thier advertizing, and have someone think they're getting a good deal because they're cheap, then don't complain when the rest of us just say f!uck it, and quit designing this stuff. It's crap. it's mis-advertized, and it's taking money out of honest, hard working American performance engineer's pockets. You'll get what you pay for...especially in the long run.Bam! Right there! More support for the american-made componentry (such as the TFS & SCJ heads).
This is actually another reason that I won't sell the Ford ProCrap heads. All High Flow Dynamics components are 100% made in the USA. And so I really have to agree with what steelcomp is saying in regards to the plagiarization of well developed performance parts by others outside of the country, whomever they may be. Thus far, High Flow Dynamics have observed a sort of "professional courtesy" among other american manufactuers in the performance and racing industry (particularly the boutique/specialty outfits) who do not steal or plagiarize others ideas but moreso share mutual appreciation for what we each have worked hard to develop in-house and subsequently offer. Personally, I do sometimes worry about the bigger monster corporations, though...
Also, in all fairness there are some componentry that comes from overseas that may not be available here at a lesser performance level for the hot rod artists, such as the chinese forged cranks for the 460 for example. Until just 6 months ago, the choices were essentially the cast crank or a $1800-up full race application forged unit or better. So there may be cases where a void is indeed filled. But as far as I'm concerned the ProCrap is not one of them.
LO

[tahiti cowboy]

Do the trick flow heads come with the bigger chamberscause I all ready have domes and I want to stay with pump gas and do they take standard valve lenght cause I have my valves all ready

[ENGBLDR]

Too funny. So these heads are no better than a stock cast iron head? They wont work any better on a 5000 rpm jet boat with a 500/540 lift cam? The application has so much to do with the head and cam choice. I havent seen any of the offshore stuff I would use in our pure racing engines. Its sad but in todays world the use of offshore products is almost unavoidable. Whos fault is that? The unions? The government for not taxing the shit out of these products? You cant be in the business anymore without using these products and staying competitive in the market. Its ok to use an Eagle/ Scat crank or rod but bash all the other products? Moroso, Manley and many other big name companys now go over seas for some of their products. Im not happy with the way the business has gone in the last 30 years but what can you do other than adjust with it.

[LakesOnly]

Too funny. So these heads are no better than a stock cast iron head? They wont work any better on a 5000 rpm jet boat with a 500/540 lift cam? The application has so much to do with the head and cam choice. I havent seen any of the offshore stuff I would use in our pure racing engines. Its sad but in todays world the use of offshore products is almost unavoidable. Whos fault is that? The unions? The government for not taxing the shit out of these products? You cant be in the business anymore without using these products and staying competitive in the market. Its ok to use an Eagle/ Scat crank or rod but bash all the other products? Moroso, Manley and many other big name companys now go over seas for some of their products. Im not happy with the way the business has gone in the last 30 years but what can you do other than adjust with it.Engbldr,
Good points . I was initially discussing the value of the ProCrap Ford 460 cylinder head specifically. Frankly, no, I don't think the Ford 460 ProCrap cylinder head, in it's current shape and form, offers much more than the oem passenger car iron heads...certainly not enough to warrant the end user spending the amount of money necessary to bring it up to speed. Damn near the same can be done with the iron head for less money and get the same HP, when all is said and done. This is especially true in the very jet boat application example that you have given.
The 460 ProCrap's exhaust port can be made to flow better than the oem iron, but the difference is neglible enough that the cam grind may be adjusted for this. The intake port is hardly better than the factory D3VE intake port (incidentally the intake port is the Ford 460's ProCrap's shortcoming). Sold as unfinished, unassembled castings, the amount of money spent by the end user will essentially end up with little more than an aluminum D3VE-A2A head. The combustion chamber is essentially the same (based on the D3VE chamber), the valve sizes, intake port etc. are all essintially the same as the 30-year old D3VE head. Maybe in bigger and more powerful engine applications it would be the superior choice, such as a blower motor, but as you noted if one is building that kind of an engine then they can certainly choose/afford a better cylinder head. And so I strongly feel the ProCrap 460 head does not fill an void in the market like the SCAT forged cranks that I mentioned. And steelcomp's reasoning is valid and his perspective is not only noteworthy but also noble as an american, while we're at it.
But yes indeed, as you note this is a much more complex, multi-faceted situation than the basic things previously pointed out in this thread. times they are a-changing. It's a global economy, the world is evermore industrialized at all 4 corners, and this damned internet has transformed the way to do business faster than most have realized. :eek: The record industry complains about illegal file sharing and how it hurts their record sales, but my god, how about engine builders such as yourself who have customers walking off the street with parts in hand (ie did not buy the parts through you with their engine machining) because they can get it cheaper off Ebay than you can sell it to them? In fact, my business partner--who runs a seperate entity of his own--uses ProCrap parts on other engines that he builds and exports (the chebby ProCrap heads do offer much more potential than the current Ford Procrap heads) but a lot of this parts use is due to his limited access to better componentry by the big american companies, and partly by some customers are not big time and who may decline to spend big bucks for a proper engine. Example: He is a 30-year engine builder and his shop is about 1 block from Canfield. If he wants a Canfield head, he has to call the nearest Canfield dealer in ARIZONA, the head ships from Canfield in SoCal to ARIZONA, then from Arizona to his shop which is one block from Canfield! They will NOT drop ship and they will NOT will call. Another example: if he wants any Edelbrock component, Edelbrock says he has to pay the same price that everyone else pays. In other words, no racer net, no jobber, no discount of any kind that allows him to give his customer the same deal that the customer gets from Ebay...even though he could potentially move plenty of product like the ebay seller (he is currently exporting dozens of engine's per month).
Needless to say, my business partner feels differently than I do about ProCrap parts. But his needs are differnent and often the offshore parts fill his needs. We have different perspctives about it all and we accept this about each other.
Also, good point about a great number of the american companies that are truly selling parts that are made overseas. Many whould be shocked to learn how much of an american engine performance company's inventory is truly manufatured overseas now, or that there are really only a few valve spring manufacturers and cam grinders for all these big commercial cam companies that offer "their" shelf grinds.
All in all, to an end userlike tahiti cowboy, I feel the ProCrap 460 head is the last choice in aftermarket aluminum cylinder heads for the engine. It's just not that great of a cylinder head.
LO

[cfm]

I agree with Steelcomp and Lakes Only. I felt like I was one of a few trying to get people to stay clear of this immoral and sometimes illegal company.
I copied this from another post I made on the subject:
http://byunspeed.com/Port%20Job.pdf
MSD injuncture on ProComp- 2nd' heading down : http://www.msdignition.com/indexoldie.html
====================
Lakes, I think "ProCrap" really somes it up. I think I'll use this name for them for now on too. Thanks !
- CFM

[gn7]

These ProCrap heads offer little more than an opportunity for a chebby guy to unwittingly boast, "I just beat the snot out of an aluminum-headed big block Ford!" Of course they wouldn't likely realize that the aluminum ProCrap heads on the Ford engine probably hurt it's performance more than ANY OTHER aluminum head currently out there.
LO
I don't think you have to woorry too much about this. NOBODY brags about beating alum. headed fords. Kinda like bragging about beating women and children.

[LakesOnly]

...I all ready have domes and I want to stay with pump gas ...
TC,
Exactly what pistons do you have and what will your final engine displacement be?
Paul

[Blown 472]

I have a virgin set of C8ve's for sale, been cleaned and magged and ready for your big block ford build.:idea:

[steelcomp]

Engbldr,
Good points . I was initially discussing the value of the ProCrap Ford 460 cylinder head specifically. Frankly, no, I don't think the Ford 460 ProCrap cylinder head, in it's current shape and form, offers much more than the oem passenger car iron heads...certainly not enough to warrant the end user spending the amount of money necessary to bring it up to speed. Damn near the same can be done with the iron head for less money and get the same HP, when all is said and done. This is especially true in the very jet boat application example that you have given.
The 460 ProCrap's exhaust port can be made to flow better than the oem iron, but the difference is neglible enough that the cam grind may be adjusted for this. The intake port is hardly better than the factory D3VE intake port (incidentally the intake port is the Ford 460's ProCrap's shortcoming). Sold as unfinished, unassembled castings, the amount of money spent by the end user will essentially end up with little more than an aluminum D3VE-A2A head. The combustion chamber is essentially the same (based on the D3VE chamber), the valve sizes, intake port etc. are all essintially the same as the 30-year old D3VE head. Maybe in bigger and more powerful engine applications it would be the superior choice, such as a blower motor, but as you noted if one is building that kind of an engine then they can certainly choose/afford a better cylinder head. And so I strongly feel the ProCrap 460 head does not fill an void in the market like the SCAT forged cranks that I mentioned. And steelcomp's reasoning is valid and his perspective is not only noteworthy but also noble as an american, while we're at it.
But yes indeed, as you note this is a much more complex, multi-faceted situation than the basic things previously pointed out in this thread. times they are a-changing. It's a global economy, the world is evermore industrialized at all 4 corners, and this damned internet has transformed the way to do business faster than most have realized. :eek: The record industry complains about illegal file sharing and how it hurts their record sales, but my god, how about engine builders such as yourself who have customers walking off the street with parts in hand (ie did not buy the parts through you with their engine machining) because they can get it cheaper off Ebay than you can sell it to them? In fact, my business partner--who runs a seperate entity of his own--uses ProCrap parts on other engines that he builds and exports (the chebby ProCrap heads do offer much more potential than the current Ford Procrap heads) but a lot of this parts use is due to his limited access to better componentry by the big american companies, and partly by some customers are not big time and who may decline to spend big bucks for a proper engine. Example: He is a 30-year engine builder and his shop is about 1 block from Canfield. If he wants a Canfield head, he has to call the nearest Canfield dealer in ARIZONA, the head ships from Canfield in SoCal to ARIZONA, then from Arizona to his shop which is one block from Canfield! They will NOT drop ship and they will NOT will call. Another example: if he wants any Edelbrock component, Edelbrock says he has to pay the same price that everyone else pays. In other words, no racer net, no jobber, no discount of any kind that allows him to give his customer the same deal that the customer gets from Ebay...even though he could potentially move plenty of product like the ebay seller (he is currently exporting dozens of engine's per month).
Needless to say, my business partner feels differently than I do about ProCrap parts. But his needs are differnent and often the offshore parts fill his needs. We have different perspctives about it all and we accept this about each other.
Also, good point about a great number of the american companies that are truly selling parts that are made overseas. Many whould be shocked to learn how much of an american engine performance company's inventory is truly manufatured overseas now, or that there are really only a few valve spring manufacturers and cam grinders for all these big commercial cam companies that offer "their" shelf grinds.
All in all, to an end userlike tahiti cowboy, I feel the ProCrap 460 head is the last choice in aftermarket aluminum cylinder heads for the engine. It's just not that great of a cylinder head.
LOWhat saddens me, is, that you even list them as choice, all be it last. They're off my list, and I wouldn't care if they were best. :devil:

[steelcomp]

I don't think you have to woorry too much about this. NOBODY brags about beating alum. headed fords. Kinda like bragging about beating women and children.There's going to be a 19' Spectra, GN style, runnin around before long with a BB Ford that may just make you eat those words. :devil: :D

[GofastRacer]

Hmmmm, interesting I'll be watching for this!...

[Jim Brock]

there will also be a southwind tunnel running around with ford pro comps

[steelcomp]

Hmmmm, interesting I'll be watching for this!...Art, I'll be putting some pics up soon. NOt much to see right now. Just got it upside down and doing the bottom. It's over at John Miller's shop...he's letting me work on it over there. What a great guy! :D

[gn7]

There's going to be a 19' Spectra, GN style, runnin around before long with a BB Ford that may just make you eat those words. :devil: :D
CAN'T WAIT, looks like a loser all the way around, a Spectra and a Ford.

[steelcomp]

CAN'T WAIT, looks like a loser all the way around, a Spectra and a Ford.Gee, you're just full of all kinds of nice things to say. :notam:

[gn7]

I'll be totally honest with you, I own two 5.0 mustangs '85 carb and a 91 efi, and have always been a ford guy, F.E.s have always been my favorite and use to run a 427 med. in a '68 rayson flat, only took it out to keep from breaking it. Still have it siiting on the garage floor. But today, under 400 ci Iam all about windsor small blocks, but over that, it's just not worth fighting that B.O.S. 385

[MikeF]

Damn, gn7 cracked....I thought is was gonna get good! :crossx: :D

[gn7]

I was drunk when I made that last post, btu 385's are PILES OF SHI-

[tahiti cowboy]

I have 30 over 460 with 100 thou dome in it and using a stadard felpro head gasket with d3s this shoud give me about 10 to 1 so I dont want to go any higher then that