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79 HUSTLER
01-21-2007, 07:56 PM
Got a question about vehicle weights and license's. I have a truck that is registered with a GVWR of 26,000 pounds and has air brakes. When I bought the truck I was told 26,000#s and under was fine for a class C license (so I did the GVWR as low as possible). I was also told that when I bought the truck (2005) that I did not need any airbrake endorsements, but that law was to change Jan 2006. I called DMV with no help and before I go in or go over to CHP I would like to get some info together. Anyone know the laws and what license or endorsement I need....
Thanks for any help...

Kilrtoy
01-21-2007, 08:17 PM
here is a start for you
15260. (a) Any applicant for a commercial driver's license who does not successfully complete the air-brake component of the knowledge test, or who does not successfully complete the driving-skill test in a vehicle or combination of vehicles equipped with air brakes, shall, if otherwise qualified, receive a commercial driver's license that restricts the licenseholder from operating a commercial motor vehicle equipped with air brakes.
(b) To remove the restriction described in subdivision (a) from a commercial driver's license, the driver is required to make a new application for a commercial driver's license, and, in addition to any other requirements specified in this code, to successfully complete the air-brake component of the knowledge test prescribed by the department, and to pass the driver-skill test in a vehicle or combination of vehicles equipped with air brakes.
(c) For the purposes of the driving-skill test and the restriction described in this section, air brakes shall include any braking system operating fully or partially on the air-brake principle.
Added Ch. 1509, Stats. 1988. Effective January 1, 1989.

79 HUSTLER
01-21-2007, 08:33 PM
here is a start for you
15260. (a) Any applicant for a commercial driver's license who does not successfully complete the air-brake component of the knowledge test, or who does not successfully complete the driving-skill test in a vehicle or combination of vehicles equipped with air brakes, shall, if otherwise qualified, receive a commercial driver's license that restricts the licenseholder from operating a commercial motor vehicle equipped with air brakes.
(b) To remove the restriction described in subdivision (a) from a commercial driver's license, the driver is required to make a new application for a commercial driver's license, and, in addition to any other requirements specified in this code, to successfully complete the air-brake component of the knowledge test prescribed by the department, and to pass the driver-skill test in a vehicle or combination of vehicles equipped with air brakes.
(c) For the purposes of the driving-skill test and the restriction described in this section, air brakes shall include any braking system operating fully or partially on the air-brake principle.
Added Ch. 1509, Stats. 1988. Effective January 1, 1989.
If I read that correctly it is talking about taking/getting a comercial license and not passing/completing the air brake test. But not about requirements for air brakes. Thanks for the info as it is a start.

79 HUSTLER
01-21-2007, 08:35 PM
How about if he's senile, 97 years old, blind in both eyes, cripple, but has 10 mil in the bank and just bought his 1.5 mil 3 axle, bus motorhome, then what license does he need?:sqeyes:
Rio
Those bastards are lucky and don't need shit.... Should have just bought one of those instead.... :mad: :mad: :D

79 HUSTLER
01-21-2007, 08:37 PM
Hey Kilr, he didn't specify COMMERCIAL. SO, if he's not using it for hire would he need the endorsement ?->probably so if the truck is running a commercial plate.(also a med card). BUT if the truck is registered as a private vehicle as a motor home would he still need an endorsement?:idea:
:
Rio
It is a commercial veh. (like my f-250) but is used for personal/private use. It is not for Hire. What type of plates would a commercial use veh. have.

Kilrtoy
01-21-2007, 08:38 PM
Rio this is a god one, and I really dont have the answer , I cant find a good one...
What is this vehicle used for? as it may be exempt

79 HUSTLER
01-21-2007, 08:40 PM
What is this vehicle used for? as it may be exempt
Just as a personal truck, driving/towing. Thanks for anything you can find..

DMOORE
01-21-2007, 08:41 PM
How about if he's senile, 97 years old, blind in both eyes, cripple, but has 10 mil in the bank and just bought his 1.5 mil 3 axle, bus motorhome, then what license does he need?:sqeyes:
Rio
If it is 40ft or less, a standard class C is required. If it is 40-45FT a class B is required.
Do I win?
Darrell.

79 HUSTLER
01-21-2007, 08:45 PM
The truck is almost done and a LE (very young) drove by my house one day and was talking about it and the class A requirements. My insurance never asked about my licensing (class A or C) the dealership never said a word, so I thought I was okay.
Another thing, I was talking to a tow truck driver who had the same truck (f650) and asked him if he had a class A to drive it, he said that no one asked him if he had a class A when he was hired, so he figured it was not needed???

79 HUSTLER
01-21-2007, 08:46 PM
If it is 40ft or less, a standard class C is required. If it is 40-45FT a class B is required.
Do I win?
Darrell.
Ding ding ding, unless they go over weight... :idea:

DMOORE
01-21-2007, 08:47 PM
If it isn't "for hire" you may need the Class B. Not 100% though.
Darrell.

Kilrtoy
01-21-2007, 08:49 PM
Your gonna need a commercial CHIPPIE to answer this one.. I recall you had asked this before and the tow driver needs a tow truck endorsement...
Im gonna go out on a limb here, pretty much any cop, even traffic cops don't know the answer. That is why you have to be certified to do commercial enforcement...

Kilrtoy
01-21-2007, 08:50 PM
Its not hard to pass forty feet either....

79 HUSTLER
01-21-2007, 08:53 PM
Your gonna need a commercial CHIPPIE to answer this one.. I recall you had asked this before and the tow driver needs a tow truck endorsement...
Im gonna go out on a limb here, pretty much any cop, even traffic cops don't know the answer. That is why you have to be certified to do commercial enforcement...
Ok, I will try to go into the local CHP office and start there. Thanks for the info, I was sure you would be the one to answer. :D
Cheers,
KELLY

Kindsvater Flat
01-21-2007, 09:04 PM
26,000lb with air brakes requires a class B license. Add weight and combination axles to that then you have to get the class A. I myself have a Class A with endorsements of Doubles/Triples, Tank, Hazmat, and M1. Looks like the friggen alphabet on my license.

Kindsvater Flat
01-21-2007, 09:12 PM
This help... sorry for the size but you got to be able to read it.
http://www.schoutenranch.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/dmv.jpg

H20 Toie
01-21-2007, 09:21 PM
We have been going through this issue for years becuase my trucks are 26000 gvw and have air brakes. we have got all sorts of answers from the highway patrol and usually saying that vechiles that are 26 and under don't have air brakes. all of my drivers have class c licenses with out any indorsments and it has never been an issue and we go thru the scales daily (castaic)
but it comes down to the fact that a 26000 truck can be driven by anyone with a class c license and there is no such thing as an airbrake indorsment

Kindsvater Flat
01-21-2007, 09:31 PM
I will be forwarding this to a buddy of mine who is a commercial inspector for CHP.

79 HUSTLER
01-21-2007, 09:34 PM
This help... sorry for the size but you got to be able to read it.
http://www.schoutenranch.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/dmv.jpg
Thanks, that shows alot of info. It looks like I am ok with the weight, as I am not OVER 26,000. But you say that I will need it, is that due to the air brakes???

79 HUSTLER
01-21-2007, 09:35 PM
I will be forwarding this to a buddy of mine who is a commercial inspector for CHP.
That would be great.... :D (unless he says something I dont want to hear. :D

79 HUSTLER
01-21-2007, 09:38 PM
We have been going through this issue for years becuase my trucks are 26000 gvw and have air brakes. we have got all sorts of answers from the highway patrol and usually saying that vechiles that are 26 and under don't have air brakes. all of my drivers have class c licenses with out any indorsments and it has never been an issue and we go thru the scales daily (castaic)
but it comes down to the fact that a 26000 truck can be driven by anyone with a class c license and there is no such thing as an airbrake indorsment
I am hearing this and lots of other thing as well over the last year, just lots of different answers it seems. My dad rented a flatbed truck last year that had a 26,000# sticker and air brakes and did not have a class A, but he knew the guy well, so not sure if he did not ask for the class A or what.

wedge44
01-21-2007, 10:21 PM
I am hearing this and lots of other thing as well over the last year, just lots of different answers it seems. My dad rented a flatbed truck last year that had a 26,000# sticker and air brakes and did not have a class A, but he knew the guy well, so not sure if he did not ask for the class A or what.
Check with Fagan, he'll cinfirm the following, Less than 26,000 gvw, class C, as long as it doesn't have air brakes
greater than 26,000 Class B, if it has air brakes you will need Class B with air brake endorsement and a DL-51 medical card....Length has nothing to do with it , it's all about the weight , brakes and other endorsements such has tanker, haz-mat, etc......hope this helps....wedge:D :D :D

wedge44
01-21-2007, 10:24 PM
We have been going through this issue for years becuase my trucks are 26000 gvw and have air brakes. we have got all sorts of answers from the highway patrol and usually saying that vechiles that are 26 and under don't have air brakes. all of my drivers have class c licenses with out any indorsments and it has never been an issue and we go thru the scales daily (castaic)
but it comes down to the fact that a 26000 truck can be driven by anyone with a class c license and there is no such thing as an airbrake indorsment
your people are subject to a ticket, and CDL has air brake endorsements. check again you are wrong...wedge

H20 Toie
01-22-2007, 06:36 AM
your people are subject to a ticket, and CDL has air brake endorsements. check again you are wrong...wedge
Where does it state anywhere that a truck under 26001 lbs needs to have a class b or an endorsement airbrakes or not?

CampbellCarl
01-22-2007, 11:20 AM
So here's my dealio, 35 ft M/H with air brakes (2 axle), towing a 3 axle 35 ft enclosed trailer with 6 HD dressers across state lines, M/H weight 26,000 (plus another 1,000 lbs of BL's) and trailer weight approx 7,500 lbs, overall length 70', total weight 34,500 lbs, 5 axles, with a class C license.
Carl

Trailer Park Casanova
01-22-2007, 11:24 AM
We're flirting with buying a Weekend Warrior tripple slide 17.000 GVW fifth wheel.
What will it take for me to qualify to tow it legally?
Will I need a class A?

acatitude
01-22-2007, 12:20 PM
this may be up for review but heres a scenario.
I can pull my buddies 35 ft boat with up to a 1 ton pickup, no law violation and no stopping at scales or special license.
Now I put that boat on a kodiak and I need a class A lic. the kodiak is 26000 gvw. does that nake sense??? no.
i can pull anything I want behind motor home also no restrictions.
Now if I pull anything less then 20 ft and less then 10,000 lbs behind kodiak I,m ok. If either goes over then class A needed.
It seems much safer pulling behind kodiak then a 3/4 ton pickup but that is where dmv breaks. there no one cares weight at 3/4 ton truck
You also need something special if you have air brakes
you also need to stop at chp check popints if over the weight
you also need the ca numbers on your truck if 26000 gvw. I dont think it matters if its registered for commercial use or not.
all these guys that pull big cats also probably need a wide load sign on back.
We found this out when stopped by a chp on freeway in a chp truck. I dont think even most of the reg chp know all this. but when your stopped by one who works the scales, they know all this shit and this is what we were told. we were just glad they didnt make us park truck and boat on freeway until we got someone with a class a to come drive it. they were kool about it, just a fix it ticket

HOOTER SLED-
01-22-2007, 02:35 PM
I didn't read the whole thread. BUt, at work, we have a couple of trucks with a 26,000 lb. rating AND air brakes. Our drivers are Class C. If that helps. As far as I know, it's all about the weight. This is per a conversation I had with someone at CHP.

acatitude
01-22-2007, 02:39 PM
seems to be a lot of conjecter on this issue. even the chp have different opinions. I was just going by what was told to us. Good Luck. Like I mentioned it depends on the length your towing and/or weight your towing. if your not towing and no air brakes your good to go. guess the air brake issue is still up in the air from hooters post.

Kindsvater Flat
01-22-2007, 02:47 PM
I called our chp inspecter this morning and what he told me is if the vehicle is 26,000lbs or less, regardless if it has airbrakes, that its a class c. If the gvwr is 26,001 it becomes a commercial and requires a class B. Only exemptions are if it tow's a travel trailer or drive motorhome etc, and he didn't want to go all into detail on that. Towing boats are not in that exemption.

acatitude
01-22-2007, 02:51 PM
I called our chp inspecter this morning and what he told me is if the vehicle is 26,000lbs or less, regardless if it has airbrakes, that its a class c. If the gvwr is 26,001 it becomes a commercial and requires a class B. Only exemptions are if it tow's a travel trailer or drive motorhome etc, and he didn't want to go all into detail on that. Towing boats are not in that exemption.
sounds like its so confusing even the chp arent positive,lol.... we were told without hesitation if the kodiak had air brakes that would be a different class license regardless of if towing or not..... youd think they could all get together on some answer...

wedge44
01-22-2007, 03:17 PM
Where does it state anywhere that a truck under 26001 lbs needs to have a class b or an endorsement airbrakes or not?
Because Air Brakes require a Air Brake endorsement that is only availble through a CDL, with either a Class A or Class B depending on the weight of the vehicle....over 26,000 GVWR with air brakes require a Class B with Air brake endorsement...in the info listed above on CDL all upper divisions licenses mention endorsements, I have the CDL book if you need one, it talks about endorsements...wedge

DMOORE
01-22-2007, 03:29 PM
So here's my dealio, 35 ft M/H with air brakes (2 axle), towing a 3 axle 35 ft enclosed trailer with 6 HD dressers across state lines, M/H weight 26,000 (plus another 1,000 lbs of BL's) and trailer weight approx 7,500 lbs, overall length 70', total weight 34,500 lbs, 5 axles, with a class C license.
Carl
Carl here is the deal. M/H's are under different rules. Up to 40 ft a class C is ok. 40' 01" - 45' requires a class B. And remember, max length is 65'.
Darrell.

Never Too Old
01-22-2007, 04:36 PM
I have 5 trucks on the road every day. 25,950 GVW with air brakes. Nothing more than regular ol' drivers licence required. There is no such thing as an air brake endorsement for a regular drivers licence.
These trucks run over 3000 miles per month and get pulled over for inspections routinely at weigh stations. If the law wasn't clear on this, I think we would have been cited at least once in the last 18 years.

Kindsvater Flat
01-22-2007, 05:52 PM
sounds like its so confusing even the chp arent positive,lol.... we were told without hesitation if the kodiak had air brakes that would be a different class license regardless of if towing or not..... youd think they could all get together on some answer...
The air brake endorsment is only required on 26,001lbs and up and over that you are required to have a class B or better. ANY thing below 26k does not require a commercial license nor does it require air brake endorsement.
quotes from the CDL Commercial Handbook... available online in pdf format
Endorsements
A special endorsement is also required to drive
the following types of vehicles. The
endorsement shows as a single letter on the
driver license.
Placarded or marked vehicles
transporting hazardous materials or
wastes—H.
Tank vehicles (including a cement
truck)—N.
• Passenger transport vehicles—P.
• School bus—S.
• Double trailer combination—T.
• Tank vehicles transporting hazardous
materials or wastes–X. (Hazardous waste
must meet the definition of VC §§353
and 15278.)
CDL Exceptions
Exceptions to the CDL requirements are:
• Persons exempted under Health and
Safety Code §25163.
• Persons operating a vehicle in an
emergency situation at the direction of a
peace officer.
• Drivers who tow a fifth-wheel travel
trailer over 15,000 pounds GVWR or a
trailer coach over 10,000 pounds GVWR,
when the towing is not for compensation.
Drivers must have a noncommercial
Class A license.
• Drivers of housecars over 40 feet but not
over 45 feet, with endorsement.
• Drivers of only fire fighting vehicles or
buses used to travel to and from the scene
of any emergency situation. Drivers need
either a Class A or B license with a fire
fighter restriction. A fire fighter may add
a “P” endorsement if the bus is owned by
a federal or state agency, a city or county
fire department, or a volunteer fire
department and when the driving is
restricted to operating buses as defined
in VC §15250.6(g). All fire fighters,
whether they have a CDL or a Class A or
B fire fighter-restricted driver license, are
subject to commercial driver sanctions.
• A fire fighter with a restricted license who
transports compressed air tanks for
breathing apparatuses that do not exceed
2,500 pounds.
• Noncivilian military personnel operating
military vehicles.
• Implement of husbandry operators who
are not required to have a driver license.
You need a CDL if you operate a
vehicle or combination of vehicles which
requires a Class A or Class B license or Class C
license with endorsements
• Has a gross vehicle weight rating
(GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more.
• Tows any vehicle with a GVWR of
10,001 pounds or more.
• Tows more than one vehicle or a trailer
bus.
• Has three or more axles (excludes three axle
vehicles weighing 6,000 pounds or less gross).

Kilrtoy
01-22-2007, 06:11 PM
This probably tghe best place to get the answer
For information of this nature, please contact our Commercial Vehicle Section directly. The mailing address and telephone number is:
California Highway Patrol
Commercial Vehicle Section/062
P.O. Box 942898
Sacramento, CA 94298-0001
(916) 445-1865

Kindsvater Flat
01-22-2007, 06:46 PM
This probably tghe best place to get the answer
For information of this nature, please contact our Commercial Vehicle Section directly. The mailing address and telephone number is:
California Highway Patrol
Commercial Vehicle Section/062
P.O. Box 942898
Sacramento, CA 94298-0001
(916) 445-1865
Thats the easiest way but you better not be vague with your question or you will get a vague answer. They never tell you more than what you ask.

H20 Toie
01-22-2007, 07:53 PM
HA see i do know what i'm talking about. now some of the drunk posts might have been a little off but this time i was right.

79 HUSTLER
01-22-2007, 08:04 PM
I called our chp inspecter this morning and what he told me is if the vehicle is 26,000lbs or less, regardless if it has airbrakes, that its a class c. If the gvwr is 26,001 it becomes a commercial and requires a class B. Only exemptions are if it tow's a travel trailer or drive motorhome etc, and he didn't want to go all into detail on that. Towing boats are not in that exemption.
Thanks for the help and going out of your way for this. This is pretty much what DMV told me today, and I will call the number kilrtoy posted and confirm everything.

79 HUSTLER
01-22-2007, 08:05 PM
Thanks everyone for the help. It looks like I will be fine with my class c. Just might have to upgrade to tow the toy hauler.
Thanks, Thanks, Thanks......

Kindsvater Flat
01-22-2007, 08:30 PM
Thanks for the help and going out of your way for this. This is pretty much what DMV told me today, and I will call the number kilrtoy posted and confirm everything.
No problem. I will be seeing him next thursday for our terminal inspection etc..
Hopefully everything is right and I won't get wrote up on anything

wedge44
01-23-2007, 09:52 AM
I have 5 trucks on the road every day. 25,950 GVW with air brakes. Nothing more than regular ol' drivers licence required. There is no such thing as an air brake endorsement for a regular drivers licence.
These trucks run over 3000 miles per month and get pulled over for inspections routinely at weigh stations. If the law wasn't clear on this, I think we would have been cited at least once in the last 18 years.
NO S*IT that why it's requires a CDL...

wedge44
01-23-2007, 09:59 AM
NO S*IT that why it's requires a CDL...
BY BAD.......... P*SSIES UNDER 25,999...... if your over 26,001 your done we don't risk it and require CDL class B for employment, with CDL also requires participation in a random drug testing policy, I feel sorry for the Business owner who's truck happened to be over the day his class c employee smoked a big fatty before he left the location after working 14 hours and killed that family of 4......:mad: :mad: :mad: wedge

79 HUSTLER
01-23-2007, 10:38 AM
Just got off the phone with these guys
California Highway Patrol
Commercial Vehicle Section/062
P.O. Box 942898
Sacramento, CA 94298-0001
(916) 445-1865
and what some others have posted correct are right on....
If 26,000# and under just class c. Does not matter what brake (air, air/hydr. etc). Over 26,000# then class b or a with air brake endoresments, among other rules.....
Thanks guys...