80 Horsepower bolt-on gain?

[455Rocket]

I was reading this month's "jet tech," and Shoemaker says that there's a "60 to 80 HP" gain from running Bassetts instead of logs on a 455... That seems a tad ridiculous. That's some serious bolt-on performance I'm missing out on if true, but logs can't be THAT restrictive, can they?
What do you guys think?

[steelcomp]

Depending on the motor, that's very possible. Not just the logs alone, but the entire ex system. Logs and the accompanying exhaust don't scavange anything at all, and they aren't tuned in any way. And, they're restrictive.

[MikeF]

Whatever backpressure (or lack of smooth flow out) you have in the system will not let the fresh charge in quite as quickly or pollute the charge for the next power stroke.
You likely will gain that much hp, but still you will only see a 300 to 400 rpm increase which should be around 5/7 mph increase for a normal jetboat. :boxed:

[Moneypitt]

The possible HP gain is true, BUT, there are some engines that will perform better with the back pressure created by the logs. Not all engines like free flowing exhaust and most of the (stock) Hardin Marine Oldsmobile 455s fall into that catagory.......MP

[Glencoe MiniDay]

Also look at the cross sectional area that you gain for flow from headers rather than the logs.
Plus if you run the long collectors they should increase the scavenge from the cylinders.
The camshaft profile is another area to pay attention to as well depending on the manufacturer you can get the input from the help desk in regars to the openess of the exhaust.
Some profiles of cams dont respond very well with no Back pressure

[malcolm]

I know my 403 Olds sure woke up when I put those old GIL headers on! I gained 300 RPM and a couple MPH. That's not 60 Horse, but looking at the impeller charts it's around 30-40. That's only with a 350 horse engine to boot. I could imagine a big block built to the hilt could easily see those kind of numbers.

[Squirtcha?]

I know my 403 Olds sure woke up when I put those old GIL headers on! I gained 300 RPM and a couple MPH. That's not 60 Horse, but looking at the impeller charts it's around 30-40. That's only with a 350 horse engine to boot. I could imagine a big block built to the hilt could easily see those kind of numbers.
I saw similar gains on both a 455 Olds and a 460 Ford a couple years ago (300-400 rpm). I was plenty impressed (and surprised). No other changes on either motor...........just the headers.

[MACHINEHEAD]

I built a ford 460 for a customer that was in hot boat a while back. "Flowa Constrictor" Went from 520hp with bassetts to mid 4s depending on the air cleaner. WOW

[maxwedge]

A little off topic but does anybody even make a set of reasonably priced through hull headers for the 455? State Farm agent now says they won't insure me with OT headers and it seems like more of a PITA than it's maybe worth. Wondering if I would see enough gain over Hardin logs to make this even a worthwhile investment on a stock 455 with a mild cam an maybe performer intake? I'm not really buying the 80HP claim either. I know header maufactures always seem to claim 15-25% Gain, and I'm not a boat motor expert by any means, but I've built lots of car motors over the years and never seen that kind of gain over manifolds unless maybe on a 600+ hp motor that needs to breath at high RPM, not on an Olds at 4500.

[BigBlockBaja]

A little off topic but does anybody even make a set of reasonably priced through hull headers for the 455? State Farm agent now says they won't insure me with OT headers and it seems like more of a PITA than it's maybe worth. Wondering if I would see enough gain over Hardin logs to make this even a worthwhile investment on a stock 455 with a mild cam an maybe performer intake? I'm not really buying the 80HP claim either. I know header maufactures always seem to claim 15-25% Gain, and I'm not a boat motor expert by any means, but I've built lots of car motors over the years and never seen that kind of gain over manifolds unless maybe on a 600+ hp motor that needs to breath at high RPM, not on an Olds at 4500.
Well, to stay on topic, I was running OT headers and the power was nice. BUT, the noise sucks, The heat from them on a hot day going through a no wake zone sucks, Cant go out at night, The police love them, the possibility of kids getting burned.
But they look cool.
Im taking the hit and going back to logs this summer..

[Wet Dream]

Maxwedge, you should check further into your insurance. I also have State Farm, and the underwriters cancelled the claim once they got the pictures of the boat. 3 things kept them from insuring it.
OT headers, no need to explain why.
The age of the boat. Mine is a 76.
Horsepower. I even told them it was rated at 200hp.
It would have been real nice at $200 a year, but it didn't stick.

[Red Horse]

A little off topic but does anybody even make a set of reasonably priced through hull headers for the 455? State Farm agent now says they won't insure me with OT headers and it seems like more of a PITA than it's maybe worth. Wondering if I would see enough gain over Hardin logs to make this even a worthwhile investment on a stock 455 with a mild cam an maybe performer intake? I'm not really buying the 80HP claim either. I know header maufactures always seem to claim 15-25% Gain, and I'm not a boat motor expert by any means, but I've built lots of car motors over the years and never seen that kind of gain over manifolds unless maybe on a 600+ hp motor that needs to breath at high RPM, not on an Olds at 4500.
Rewarder does. I have logs on mine and if I get headers those are what I am going go get.

[Squirtcha?]

I'm amazed that you guys got such big gains with just a change to headers.
I remember hot rod mag recently doing a dyno test of headers, comparing the diameter of tube size, and the HP gains were very modest on a dyno proven 440 horse engine. 8, 10, 15 horse increase's were what they were getting and it was for the most part, at 4900 rpm and above, up to 6000. Numbers that most jets never get to.
Like I said "I was plenty impressed (and surprised)".
I sure never expected those kind of numbers from an exhaust change.
If you think about it this way though.................... Stuff a set of baffles into those headers and you'll lose about 200 rpm (or 2/3 of the gains you bolted on) just from the baffles.

[TIMINATOR]

Gugs 102 gained 5.7 mph on his BBC heavy-spud Hallet with changeing from the large logs to non-muffled rewarders. We radared it and had full fuel both times and the temp was within 4 degrees. The muffler inserts we manufacture (been making them for 4+ years on a custom basis) generally GAIN 150/200 rpm and do a pretty good job on the noise too. We are currently doing a Hawaiian upgrade also and the inserts will be a part of the package. We will report when it goes out for testing. Commercial sales will likely follow.... stay tuned. TIMINATOR

[disco_charger]

I'm amazed that you guys got such big gains with just a change to headers.
I remember hot rod mag recently doing a dyno test of headers, comparing the diameter of tube size, and the HP gains were very modest on a dyno proven 440 horse engine. 8, 10, 15 horse increase's were what they were getting and it was for the most part, at 4900 rpm and above, up to 6000. Numbers that most jets never get to.
Just out of curiousity, what do you think changes with a blower? Won't the blower push exhaust gas with logs, anyway? Or is it time to step up to dry stack shorties?

[malcolm]

I'm amazed that you guys got such big gains with just a change to headers.
I remember hot rod mag recently doing a dyno test of headers, comparing the diameter of tube size, and the HP gains were very modest on a dyno proven 440 horse engine. 8, 10, 15 horse increase's were what they were getting and it was for the most part, at 4900 rpm and above, up to 6000. Numbers that most jets never get to.
I was under that, I went from 4600 to 4900. It was hard on the ears though. I finally cracked one and put the logs back on. I had done some welding on them to make them fit the Spectra's high rear deck. Must of added some stress to it and caused the break. I may fix it and try it again this year with my new 455.

[Rexone]

Logs on any engine, especially when coupled to the snail risers are the poorest flowing type of system you can get and offer no exhaust scavaging like a header. I've heard of some pretty substantial gains by changing to headers without changing anything else, over the years.

[DansBlown73Nordic]

On my Schiada V-Drive with a 454 I added a set of Stellings water jacketed headers. I gained 7-800 rpm,s. I removed a set of snails. It for made a huge difference.

[bigkatboat]

A number of years ago, I was asked to testify in a lawsuit against GS Marine. The plaintiff had a stack of reciepts from GS that showed a "custom built blower motor". The motor lasted 20 minutes! I tore the motor down to rebuild it. The motor was completely STOCK and was unrebuildable. I DID NOT testify in court (I don't believe in doing business that way) but at that time GS Marine DID NOT BUILD THEIR OWN MOTORS! They testified that another motor builder "did all of their motor work", and "he" was to blame for the misrepresentation of the motor. Does GS Marine do their motors 'in house' now? Maybe they hired someone who knows how to do motor work.

[MikeF]

Check your April 2005 HB magazine for the article on log manifolds........ :)

[malcolm]

I think the snails are a big problem with the logs. Anyone ever see noticeable gains just putting O/T pipes on them?

[maxwedge]

Ok let's just settle this. All we need is someone willing to donate me a set of those Olds Rewarder thru-transom headers, I will gladly donate my time and fuel to do some before and after GPS runs with my boat. You guys can even come along to see if I'm lying. Seems fair right? :D
Actually I'm doing my taxes right now, so depending on how nice uncle sam is to me this year, I may even have enough to buy some headers. Based on past years experience, it seems more likely that I'll be selling the boat, and moving into a van down by the river. :cry:

[Squirtcha?]

Gugs 102 gained 5.7 mph on his BBC heavy-spud Hallet with changeing from the large logs to non-muffled rewarders. We radared it and had full fuel both times and the temp was within 4 degrees. The muffler inserts we manufacture (been making them for 4+ years on a custom basis) generally GAIN 150/200 rpm and do a pretty good job on the noise too. We are currently doing a Hawaiian upgrade also and the inserts will be a part of the package. We will report when it goes out for testing. Commercial sales will likely follow.... stay tuned. TIMINATOR
I hope you're right here and you've succeeded where so many others have failed. I'd love to run a set of baffles, but won't give up any of my hardfought horsepower to do it.
I'll volunteer my boat to be test bed, and be happy to give an honest same day, back to back, evaluation (baffles vs. no baffles).
I don't even need a gain................just no losses.

[TIMINATOR]

I have done a load of these insert sets and have not been disappointed yet. We should have the Hawaiian set done this week, and test this weekend depending on the owners schedule. Since they bolt in and are easily removeable at the lake we have done quite a few back to back tests. The Hawaiian is the stockest motor that we have done these for so far. We will see what happens. The test subject had a non-functional tach and fuel supply issues, these are now fixed, we will rock.... Thought that gugs 102 would have chimed in on his rewarder gain too, mebbie he's still sleeping. Dan, when we get the chance we can see if Hawaiian's inserts will fit your deal, if so you are welcome to try them, we'll all go to Pleasant and bring the radar gun, but just having a working tach will tell what you have gained or lost. We did a lot of these before the noise nazis were out and no-one seemed to care, so now I can probably actually make a few bucks on them. We will keep all posted. TIMINATOR

[Squirtcha?]

Dan, when we get the chance we can see if Hawaiian's inserts will fit your deal, if so you are welcome to try them, we'll all go to Pleasant and bring the radar gun, but just having a working tach will tell what you have gained or lost. We did a lot of these before the noise nazis were out and no-one seemed to care, so now I can probably actually make a few bucks on them. We will keep all posted. TIMINATOR
My tach works fine. If those things work, I'd definitely be interested in a set. Personally I don't mind the noise, but I'd like to tone it down some for the kids sake. That and if the lake patrols start enforcing the noise laws, it'll end up being a necessity.
I'm running the Bassett long tubes with the bells on em. I think they're 4" dia.
http://www.homestead.com/jetboat/roostage.jpg

[spectras only]

I think the snails are a big problem with the logs. Anyone ever see noticeable gains just putting O/T pipes on them?
Malcolm , we have this 20 carrera jet in Dave's shop .Came with Basset OT headers . Doug [owner] decided to go the other way and ditched the headers and we put a set of Glenwood logs on, without any changes to the engine/carb.There was NO difference in performance what so ever ,verified by his GPS . With 415 hp , there's no gain to go with headers IMHO .

[MikeF]

Malcolm , we have this 20 carrera jet in Dave's shop .Came with Basset OT headers . Doug [owner] decided to go the other way and ditched the headers and we put a set of Glenwood logs on, without any changes to the engine/carb.There was NO difference in performance what so ever ,verified by his GPS . With 415 hp , there's no gain to go with headers IMHO .
Check the back of that boat for hook. I remember seeing more on that hull than nearly any other I've seen. :220v:

[Squirtcha?]

Oddly enough, we're talking about gains and losses or no gains or losses by changing from logs to headers and vice versa and nobody has mentioned re-jetting a carb. Going back to performance exhaust for roadbikes, dirtbikes, etc. most exhaust changes would require a re-jet for best performance. I know on dirtbikes the difference could be really significant with just a jet change. Don't know if it makes as big a difference when dealing with 8 cylinders rather than 1-4 but I'd be curious.
Could it be possible that in the case of the 455 Olds and 460 Ford that I witnessed the big gains on were jetted too fat for their logs and then just luckily (since they didn't change anything) hit on the proper jetting when switching to headers. I know........probably reaching here and it's a long shot, but it could explain their gains at least in part. Both of those motors were very near stock and running a single Holley 750 dp.
Just trying to figure out why some folks got phenomenal gains, and some no gains at all.

[HotDogz]

I picked up 300 rpm just by bolting on my Bassett Tri-Y headers, even without re-jetting for the headers.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2806DSC01967-med.JPG
And theyre stainless, just buff em out.

[Sanger Jet]

Like I said "I was plenty impressed (and surprised)".
I sure never expected those kind of numbers from an exhaust change.
If you think about it this way though.................... Stuff a set of baffles into those headers and you'll lose about 200 rpm (or 2/3 of the gains you bolted on) just from the baffles.
A set of these helps also

[MOPARMARLIN]

I Picked Up 600 Rpm's From A Set Of Logs To A Set Of Ot Headers(dry)
On A Virtually Stock 440 6pack Engine With A Single Carb. Everybodies Set Up Is Different So The Gains Some Of U See Wont Be As Much As Others.
Just My Senario
Mopar

[GUGS102]

Timinator had chimed in about my experience. I think it is also important to point out that the heads and cam were set up/selected for a more free flowing exhaust.
I had all the motor work done at Timm's shop. We gained 400-500RPM and 5.7 MPH with no tuning. Now we'll go back and tune to meet the new combo. My set up is a 489 BBC with a comp solid roller 246 .622 single pattern with an air gap and a 950HP.
If you look at the chart going from 5000 to 5500 on a berk A is somewhere around 80 - 100HP.
As far as the olds thing goes, we had a stock 455 southwind and went from logs to headers and saw no noticeable gain. Again, did not make enough HP to benefit from the change. So it all depends...

[Wetracer]

Does Shellings have a website?? I have searched and cant find anything. Mike

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Oddly enough, we're talking about gains and losses or no gains or losses by changing from logs to headers and vice versa and nobody has mentioned re-jetting a carb. Going back to performance exhaust for roadbikes, dirtbikes, etc. most exhaust changes would require a re-jet for best performance. I know on dirtbikes the difference could be really significant with just a jet change. Don't know if it makes as big a difference when dealing with 8 cylinders rather than 1-4 but I'd be curious.
Could it be possible that in the case of the 455 Olds and 460 Ford that I witnessed the big gains on were jetted too fat for their logs and then just luckily (since they didn't change anything) hit on the proper jetting when switching to headers. I know........probably reaching here and it's a long shot, but it could explain their gains at least in part. Both of those motors were very near stock and running a single Holley 750 dp.
Just trying to figure out why some folks got phenomenal gains, and some no gains at all.
I think it comes down to what is the restriction in engine power production/breathing.
If the intake, heads, cam, are all trying to flow better in than the exhaust is flowing out, gains can be quite large, on the other hand, if the intake side isn't really ready, or the heads are really the worst restrictor, the headers won't help a bit.
When Lowrider finally got wet this summer, I had to jet up 1 size, all 4 corners, and gained 200 RPM, 50HP, on what WAS a 350 HP 454 last fall, and a non-radical cam (.565" lift, 280* duration seat/seat). Now the small valve stock iron heads are the issue.
Had I had head work done first, THOSE gains may have been decent, but marginal blowing thru logs, then the headers could have been huge. Now, the head gains could be very surprising.
I'm not finding any company named "Shelling" or "Shellings" online either.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

When I added headers this is what I got.....
1) A very LOUD motor
2) alot of heat from running dry;)
3) Everyone starring at me when I fly by them
Oh wait I never ran logs on my chevy:D HEADERS 4 LIFE!!!
I know that when I had an old and I went from logs to headers and picked up 500r's! You couldnt give me a set of logs..........

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Damn 396. I was going to offer to give ya my old logs. :crossx:

[El Prosecutor]

When I added headers this is what I got.....
1) A very LOUD motor
2) alot of heat from running dry;)
3) Everyone starring at me when I fly by them
2 out of 3 aint bad!

[bergen]

i think some people are confuseing noise ( loudness ) with hp.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

i think some people are confuseing noise ( loudness ) with hp.
When you have a big cam,dry headers, and hi compression it gets loud.......

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Damn 396. I was going to offer to give ya my old logs. :crossx:
We will just run em dry :crossx:
2 out of 3 aint bad!
lol

[MAXIMUS]

I remeber reading an article on a 21' daytona years ago that only went 90 mph with a big blown deal in it! Post testing after article was published said that after some minor "tweaking" to the carburators it went 115! :eek: So yea I can see where they might get 80 hp out of a set of bassetts! :notam: Hot boat "always" has accurate info on speeds, hp etc... :)

[502 JET]

Does Shellings have a website?? I have searched and cant find anything. Mike
Is it Stellings (http://www.stellingsmarineproducts.com/) that you are looking for?

[MAXIMUS]

Logs on any engine, especially when coupled to the snail risers are the poorest flowing type of system you can get and offer no exhaust scavaging like a header. I've heard of some pretty substantial gains by changing to headers without changing anything else, over the years.
Have you really!:notam:
Get back in the closet... :devil:
Moderater...:rolleyes:

[El Prosecutor]

i think some people are confuseing noise ( loudness ) with hp.
No confusion here, I just like the sound of a loud motor, especially on the water!!!
WOOOOOOHOOOOOO!!
:boxed:

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

I remeber reading an article on a 21' daytona years ago that only went 90 mph with a big blown deal in it! Post testing after article was published said that after some minor "tweaking" to the carburators it went 115! :eek: So yea I can see where they might get 80 hp out of a set of bassetts! :notam: Hot boat "always" has accurate info on speeds, hp etc... :)
maxi's boat huh......

[PAINELES]

I picked up 300 rpm just by bolting on my Bassett Tri-Y headers, even without re-jetting for the headers.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/2806DSC01967-med.JPG
And theyre stainless, just buff em out.
WOW HotDogz that looks so much better than the log an snail setup too
after reading these posts
Im goin that wat too

[probablecause]

When you have a big cam,dry headers, and hi compression it gets loud.......
That is the addiction we were talking about in a post a couple of months ago when that guy sold his jet boat for a ski boat. Nothing like firing the beast at the launch ramp and having every head turn (yes, even the weed whackers look). They can say they get better mileage but I look better doing it.

[MAXIMUS]

maxi's boat huh......
:notam:

[lilrick]

:notam:
I don't think you really have the time for this right now. Get to work!
Oh yah! headers rock!

[MAXIMUS]

I don't think you really have the time for this right now. Get to work!
Oh yah! headers rock!
Get back in the closet with Rexy... :rolleyes:

[Cas]

anyone have any risers laying around that they aren't using?

[GUGS102]

Some good info, mixed with BS you figure out which is which:)

[kojac]

Gugs 102 gained 5.7 mph on his BBC heavy-spud Hallet with changeing from the large logs to non-muffled rewarders. We radared it and had full fuel both times and the temp was within 4 degrees. The muffler inserts we manufacture (been making them for 4+ years on a custom basis) generally GAIN 150/200 rpm and do a pretty good job on the noise too. We are currently doing a Hawaiian upgrade also and the inserts will be a part of the package. We will report when it goes out for testing. Commercial sales will likely follow.... stay tuned. TIMINATOR
Timinator,
Could you get back to me about your mufflers? We are starting The Lake Anna Boating and Recreation association here in Virginia to gain members to help fight the speed and noise among other proposed legislation. One of the major concerns the local civic associations have is the noise. Course we like it but with our new organization we have committed ourselves to finding a muffling device that will be a major compromise.
The criteria I explained to the civic association was the mufflers had to look good.(its all about profile)
They couldn't restrict horsepower. (What's the sense of that)
And they had to quiet the boats down.
The civics association are spouting the new marine manufacturing law (75 dcb's)adopted by 33 states. While Virginia isn't interested in adopting new legislation just yet The civic organizations are pushing for local ordinances. We would like to not have that happen.
I am realistic enough to see that combination is not going to happen but if you have some idea about what we can expect in dcb' and cost that I can propose to about 250 members that have performance boats it would be a big help.
We have tested four sets of mufflers for over the transom headers and while they can look good with stainless or coating they don't get the noise level down to an acceptable level.
Paul Bassett has just sent us a set of mufflers that he designed and a set of headers but time and previous obligations has not allowed us to get a test set up yet.
Thanks
Kojac
ps will your mufflers work on 4" headers and 41/2" blower headers?
Back to the topic I replaced a set of logs on a 468 chevy motor 10-1 compression with a set of Bassett over the transome headers and increased from 5200 to 5500rpm's on a 19 ft merlin daycruiser pulling an A impellar.
hope this info helps. The engine sported a 248/252 duration at.050 .568 lift lobe center was 110 and oval ported heads with just a slight massage.
Kojac

[GUGS102]

Timinator,
Could you get back to me about your mufflers? We are starting The Lake Anna Boating and Recreation association here in Virginia to gain members to help fight the speed and noise among other proposed legislation. One of the major concerns the local civic associations have is the noise. Course we like it but with our new organization we have committed ourselves to finding a muffling device that will be a major compromise.
The criteria I explained to the civic association was the mufflers had to look good.(its all about profile)
They couldn't restrict horsepower. (What's the sense of that)
And they had to quiet the boats down.
The civics association are spouting the new marine manufacturing law (75 dcb's)adopted by 33 states. While Virginia isn't interested in adopting new legislation just yet The civic organizations are pushing for local ordinances. We would like to not have that happen.
I am realistic enough to see that combination is not going to happen but if you have some idea about what we can expect in dcb' and cost that I can propose to about 250 members that have performance boats it would be a big help.
We have tested four sets of mufflers for over the transom headers and while they can look good with stainless or coating they don't get the noise level down to an acceptable level.
Paul Bassett has just sent us a set of mufflers that he designed and a set of headers but time and previous obligations has not allowed us to get a test set up yet.
Thanks
Kojac
ps will your mufflers work on 4" headers and 41/2" blower headers?
Back to the topic I replaced a set of logs on a 468 chevy motor 10-1 compression with a set of Bassett over the transome headers and increased from 5200 to 5500rpm's on a 19 ft merlin daycruiser pulling an A impellar.
hope this info helps. The engine sported a 248/252 duration at.050 .568 lift lobe center was 110 and oval ported heads with just a slight massage.
Kojac
Timm made a set for one of our boats, it ran dry headers and you could not talk while idle let alone at RPM. We first tried the bassett sprial baffles and lost 500RPM. Second Timm made his fancy set and we lost NO RPM and the noise is much more tolerable. Haven't checked it with a noise detetection device yet, but much more tolerable with no loss of power.
Gugs

[TIMINATOR]

There are two different sizes of logs and snails, this muddies the results. Removing the snails and adding the OT pipes usually results in 1-2 mph. An Olds will recieve less gain from headers as the center 2 ports on each head are open to each other, also the exhaust center divider flange does not go all of the way out to the header or manifold surface. If you want Olds gains(with stock heads), you must fill the crossovers and weld the divider flange as shown in last years ***boat Olds article. and yes, we have seen 3 to 5 mph gains. P.S. the car header article started with car exhaust(much better than small logs), not boat headers(usually bigger than all but race headers for a car. TIMINATOR

[455Rocket]

Brought back from the dead... someone went searching
Funny I was going on to ask a question about log/riser gaskets too... see my post!

[ck7684]

Wouldnt it be easier to just list the boat on Ebay?? No wrench turning and it's worth at least 100hp and 20-30mph...:D

[Lightning]

Some good info, mixed with BS you figure out which is which:)
Thanks for the bump.

[SD Beach]

I was reading this month's "jet tech," and Shoemaker says that there's a "60 to 80 HP" gain from running Bassetts instead of logs on a 455... That seems a tad ridiculous. That's some serious bolt-on performance I'm missing out on if true, but logs can't be THAT restrictive, can they?
What do you guys think?
No Way Think hot boat needs new tech

[TIMINATOR]

Reread GUGGYs and my posts. TIMINATOR

[71tahiti]

I have 455 and I want to upgrade my exhaust. I have an engine cover(which I like) are there any water jacketed thru hull headers for the olds?? I have seen the water injected but that is probably to hot.... any suggestions?

[SmokinLowriderSS]

I think Rewarder does, and I KNOW you won't like the price.
My Lightning headers and 4" outlets on my 454 gained me 50 HP, 200 RPM on a Berk "A". I already had the intake and cam changes done, so the logs were the main choke point. The stock '049 heads need work now (the choke point now).

[YeLLowBoaT]

rewarder makes tt water injected... not water jacked headers... so you can't put them under a cover.
They might be able to make you a set, but its going to cost.

[Old Guy]

http://www.bassettracing.com/newpage11.htm
Quoted $3795 for Olds

[SmokinLowriderSS]

http://www.bassettracing.com/newpage11.htm
Quoted $3795 for Olds
There they are.
thx for the clarification Yellowboat, on the rewarders. Yep, injecteds do not belong under a hood.

[YeLLowBoaT]

I wonder if they can make me a set for my pontiacs :idea: Rewarder is going to build me a custom set of TT water injected, but I would much rather have water jacked... still thats more then 3x the price of the water injected.

[SmokinLowriderSS]

They are 2x the ammount of stainless steel tubing, and a lot more welding too. Sure is a big chunk to bite off at once tho.

[71tahiti]

I love having a padded engine hatch. Comes in handy when playin ect... I guess I will have to sacrifice some HP's in favor of a sweetie in a bikini on the hatch.:D :D :D

[probablecause]

One day, I will have an open cockpit engine and a set of these...
http://shopping.rexmar.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/126140.jpg

[TIMINATOR]

Brian (pontiac) had rewarder do a set of jacketed ss pontiac headers 2 years ago. The quote was 3 to 4 weeks and $2400, with $2000 down. Delivery took 5 MONTHS and the final cost was $3600 with shipping. I believe he sold the boat without them and still has them. Brian Fitzgerald in Erie,Penn. is who you are looking for. I haven't heard from him in a few months, I'll look for his #. TIMINATOR