Insuring MY boat and Wozencraft, what a crock !!!

[1968Droptop]

I called Wozencraft after reading about him in ***boat Mag. I spent a good 3/4 hour on the phone with his assistant yesterday afternoon going through all the application crap. He told me "I'm very confident we can get you insurance". I told him of my troubles getting anyone to insure my Daytona, "we've helped lot's of people in your situation" he said. After hearing back today I'm calling BS that he has insurance "...that nobody else has access to". They told me the same thing every other insurance co. did, we can't insure cat's under 26'. How about telling me that right off the bat like most other companies instead of wasting everyones time !!!!!!
I've officailly given up trying to get my boat insured !!! I've been trying for well over a month, same old crap, "not that kind of boat". I've been told to try Loydds of London, and been warned it'll scare the crap out of you when and if you get a quote. I just have trouble swallowing the fact that a 40+ yo can't get insurance to protect his assests.

[shadow]

Thats BS! Sorry to hear that.I'm sure this insurance has to be affecting the manufactures sales as well as sales of used cats & tunnels.
Wish i had a sugessstion of who to call,good luck!

[andy01]

I called Wozencraft after reading about him in ***boat Mag. I spent a good 3/4 hour on the phone with his assistant yesterday afternoon going through all the application crap. He told me "I'm very confident we can get you insurance". I told him of my troubles getting anyone to insure my Daytona, "we've helped lot's of people in your situation" he said. After hearing back today I'm calling BS that he has insurance "...that nobody else has access to". They told me the same thing every other insurance co. did, we can't insure cat's under 26'. How about telling me that right off the bat like most other companies instead of wasting everyones time !!!!!!
I've officailly given up trying to get my boat insured !!! I've been trying for well over a month, same old crap, "not that kind of boat". I've been told to try Loydds of London, and been warned it'll scare the crap out of you when and if you get a quote. I just have trouble swallowing the fact that a 40+ yo can't get insurance to protect his assests.
Sorry to hear that. Anyone else that calls that office only speak to Devin, not anybody else. He is a hot boater with a cat and doesn't seem to waste to much time with getting the facts.

[moneysucker]

Unfortunately, I went through the same thing with insurance companies when my boat was a tunnel ram. Now that it is blown injected, I have not even called anyone. The OT headers= NO. 100 mph=NO. Tunnel Hull 19'=NO. 900HP=NO. Just one would make them not want to insure me. all of the above makes them laugh when they ask the 3rd question. I just boat in shallow water and know the salvage divers. All I want is the motor and pump back. I would love to have some liablility insurance for any sort of accident with a 3rd party or someone else in my boat. Let us all know if you come up with anything. Thanks for the update on your insurance quest.
Cy

[Moneypitt]

Did you request a quote for liability only? And they still laughed!........MP

[moneysucker]

I have not requested liability only yet. I just sent in an application to these people, we will see what they have to say.
https://secure.unitedmarine.net/default.htm
I am thinking I will try my auto insurance carrier again. They said no to me 5 years ago but my record was not so good then. lol

[Ken F]

United Marine Underwriters
1309 Bluegrass Parkway LaGrange KY 40031
800-477-7140 502-222-0199 502-222-0299 fax umu@UnitedMarine.net
For Instant Quotes, Dock at our web site www.UnitedMarine.net
To: Kenneth W Foster
Re: 2005 18' Pheonix Cheyenne
Thank you for the opportunity to provide an insurance quotation. Due to the type of the vessel, we do not have a market and will be unable to provide you with a quotation. Sorry we could not be of assistance.
Regards,
Tom Jackson
www.UnitedMarine.net
TJackson@UnitedMarine.net
800.477.7140
502.222.0199
502.222.0299 fax

[GUGS102]

Buddy just picked up a 21 with an outboard, wonder if he'll have the same issue.
What's the deal with the cats, ride a ton better than anything else in the 21' range, what type of claims are being made to cause such trouble. I know the larger high HP cats are having difficulty too.
Been thinking about a 21' with a jet, I'll have to keep tabs on what's happening with them before I make a purchase.
Gugs

[spectras only]

Wonder why Wayne Booth [ Cougar boats Canada ] sold his successful company ? There has been a beautiful cougar cat with twin outboards [under 20 hrs] for sale for a song in the paper for couple of years now :idea:
It's getting nearly impossible to insure small boats with big HP around here ,
and I'm sure the us guys use the same [ only a handful ]under writers we use here in canada !

[moneysucker]

United Marine Underwriters
1309 Bluegrass Parkway LaGrange KY 40031
800-477-7140 502-222-0199 502-222-0299 fax umu@UnitedMarine.net
For Instant Quotes, Dock at our web site www.UnitedMarine.net
To: Kenneth W Foster
Re: 2005 18' Pheonix Cheyenne
Thank you for the opportunity to provide an insurance quotation. Due to the type of the vessel, we do not have a market and will be unable to provide you with a quotation. Sorry we could not be of assistance.
Regards,
Tom Jackson
www.UnitedMarine.net
TJackson@UnitedMarine.net
800.477.7140
502.222.0199
502.222.0299 fax
Surprise surprise!!! Looky what was in my in box today!!!
To: Cyrus J Locke
Re: 1977 19' Southwind/Jem-Craft
Thank you for the opportunity to provide an insurance quotation. Due to the age and performance of the vessel, we do not have a market and will be unable to provide you with a quotation. Sorry we could not be of assistance.
Regards,
Tom Jackson
www.UnitedMarine.net
TJackson@UnitedMarine.net
800.477.7140
502.222.0199
502.222.0299 fax

[1968Droptop]

NO chance at liablitly only, at least through my personal carrier. He told me everyone else will be the same, not a chance in hell ! The only liability I have is while it's being towed behind my personal vehicle, other than that S.O.L.
Since you guys are listing your insurance responses, here's mine from Markel Marine:
I wish to thank you for choosing Markel Marine...........however per our underwriting quidelines and limits, we unfortunetly can not offer you a quote on this boat. It exceeds our speed limits and the modified engine is in excess of allowable horsepower.
ALLOWABLE HORSEPOWER ??? Now that's funny !!! I'm framing my response and hanging it in my shop next to the "NO INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINES ON LAKE" sign I stole for future laughs.

[spectras only]

Maybe you should delete "speed" from your profile :idea: . Insurance guys lurking on this site too :idea: :D

[loudpipessavelives]

insurance companies are a bunch of bs... all that they look at is their statistics and they dont look at the person who they are insuring just their drivng record and credit rating is all that they care about.....and i cant understand how they have no problem insuring jetskis that are doing 60-65 mph but a full size boat that is safe they cant insure just becasue of OT headers and horsepower.... i want to know where they come up with these requirements
droptop, im in the same boat as you i got turned down by 12 insurance companies

[1968Droptop]

FWIW the HP doesn't seem to matter, it's the boat itself. Under 26' = no chance. I don't have OT's, I don't have a tunnel ram, I don't have multiple carbs, and I don't have any kind of forced induction and they still are turning me down. It also doesn't seem to matter that I'm over 40 and have perfect credit w/ no claims on my insurance. Nothing matters, they just look at the hull and slam the door :mad: :mad: :mad:

[mach1alaska]

next time refer to it as a tri hull which technically it is;) and see if they will insure that

[Moneypitt]

Back 2 years or so there was a long thread on this subject that challenged the rating guidelines of the various insurers. It was quite extensive about the HP numbers vs the speed potential of ***boats. Seems, if I recall, the "experts" were so far off with there calculations it was as though there was no research done at all. Later I'll look to see if I can find it............MP

[1968Droptop]

Back 2 years or so there was a long thread on this subject that challenged the rating guidelines of the various insurers. It was quite extensive about the HP numbers vs the speed potential of ***boats. Seems, if I recall, the "experts" were so far off with there calculations it was as though there was no research done at all. Later I'll look to see if I can find it............MP
Wouldn't doubt it at all. Markel told me my boat will do in excess of 130mph :sqeyes:

[blue wonder]

Unfortunately, I went through the same thing with insurance companies when my boat was a tunnel ram. Now that it is blown injected, I have not even called anyone. The OT headers= NO. 100 mph=NO. Tunnel Hull 19'=NO. 900HP=NO. Just one would make them not want to insure me. all of the above makes them laugh when they ask the 3rd question. I just boat in shallow water and know the salvage divers. All I want is the motor and pump back. I would love to have some liablility insurance for any sort of accident with a 3rd party or someone else in my boat. Let us all know if you come up with anything. Thanks for the update on your insurance quest.
Cy
well lucky for you you dont have 900 horse and your boat wont do 100!!!!...sorry i just couldn't resist that one!!!!!

[Deano]

Back 2 years or so there was a long thread on this subject that challenged the rating guidelines of the various insurers. It was quite extensive about the HP numbers vs the speed potential of ***boats. Seems, if I recall, the "experts" were so far off with there calculations it was as though there was no research done at all. Later I'll look to see if I can find it............MP
I don't understand why the boat manufacturers don't join forces and take care of this bullshit. Hire a damn law firm and a lobbyist to make a change already. Their business would only prosper by selling more boats that can be insured for less than the tune of 3K-10K+ a year. Maybe Eliminator and DCB need to join forces and get it done. Any true business man would be all over it….
I don't know shit about the insurance biz, but isn't there an insurance commissioner that is supposed to watch and regulate this type of crap? How many catamaran type boat claims are there? I wish I could go into the business. I would charge half and still make billions.

[LakesOnly]

My boats have not been insured for some time now. I last insured the jet through Progressive, about 3 years ago. Must have thru-transom exhaust, engine hatch, etc. I estimated the HP at 350HP at the time. When I rebuilt the motor and switched to OT headers, I didn't bother to renew nor would they have anyway (long story, but the in the end it's the same old story). All I have now is inner tubes in my bow.
Has anyone tried insuring with those classic muscle car insurance places? I'm talking about the insurance plans that let you insure your vehicle for a "declared value." I don't know if they accept vessles...just a thought.
What really shows how lopsided this situation is, is that most fishing boats (that are the same size as our jet boats) are usually insured no problem. But guess what? Most of those fishing boats are capable of travelling in excess of 100MPH right off the showroom floor.
LO

[GUGS102]

Are they having similar problems? When you give them the details, 21' stoker, 250 merc they probally don't bat an eyelash. When I say 19' with 450 the bells start dinging. The ironic part is that that whacker will go right around me and keep accelerating.
I'm heading to the boat show today, I'll run up to the first booth with a big cat and loudly ask why I can't insure my new boat I just bought. Either I'll get tossed or get some interesting info...
Keep you posted
Gugs

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

I guess that my boat will be a 50mph boat with a 30K motor!!!!!:D :D
Ill call my insurance guy today and see if I can hook up my fellow boaters;)
396

[Jordy]

I'm heading to the boat show today, I'll run up to the first booth with a big cat and loudly ask why I can't insure my new boat I just bought. Either I'll get tossed or get some interesting info...
Gugs
Hope you're going somewhere other than Phoenix then. No true big cats there. Magic has a 34' but it's got a center sponson and Cobra has a 27'er there. Still not quite the same deal as a 19' jet. Good luck though.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

My insurance guy is working on this as we speak. This might turn out good.
396
I need ideas......
hardware coverage $$$ ammount being insured?
What type of medical coverages??

[Squirtcha?]

I'm not an insurance guy so don't jump me. My opinion on insurance for ***boats was always this.........
Don't misrepresent what you have. If something bad should happen and they find out that you were fraudulent when giving them the specs hp vs. length, hull type, top speed, etc. I'm guessing that the policy won't be worth the paper it's printed on.

[Jordy]

I need ideas......
hardware coverage $$$ ammount being insured?
What type of medical coverages??
I'd say that off the bat, another huge hurdle is replacement value on these older boats. Insurance companies have to go off some kind of book value and many older jets don't show any kind of value in NADA guides, if they're even listed at all. I know it showed that my 21' Schiada River Cruiser was only worth $2,300 or so going by the book. I'd guess it's a whole can of worms they don't want to get into. ;)
On the other hand, because of the policy on my Spectre, I can put a full coverage policy on my jet for next to nothing. On it's own, they wouldn't touch it because it's over 20 years old. Go buy a new 17' bayliner and then do a rider listing your jet. Problem solved!!! :D :D :D

[Ken F]

My insurance guy is working on this as we speak. This might turn out good.
396
I need ideas......
hardware coverage $$$ ammount being insured?
What type of medical coverages??
396,
I asked them to insure the boat for 30K, homebuilt trailer for 3K, Liability was 500K, Medical was 500K.
Hope it works out....I've got a guy here working on it too.
ken

[Ken F]

I'm not an insurance guy so don't jump me. My opinion on insurance for ***boats was always this.........
Don't misrepresent what you have. If something bad should happen and they find out that you were fraudulent when giving them the specs hp vs. length, hull type, top speed, etc. I'm guessing that the policy won't be worth the paper it's printed on.
Exactly right Dan! If you arent honest with them, you might as well not pay for insurence.

[Classic Daycruiser]

My boat is $231 a year with Allstate (multiple policy discounts apply). They use HP to Length formula, and my 21 foot 260hp Eliminator barely fits into there guide lines. Boat is worth $10K(too my insurance company) / 100k Liability / 1000 Medical
I tried Hagerty (they do insure classic boats), but my top speed of 60 mph was too high at this time.
Don't go without liability. If "later" had liability, he might have gotten his boat out of the water do to the government agency making it manditory, and filing a claim.

[1968Droptop]

Don't go without liability. If "later" had liability, he might have gotten his boat out of the water do to the government agency making it manditory, and filing a claim.
Easier said than done ! I can't get any coverage for my boat. The ONLY time it's covered is when it's being towed by my truck, and that's only liabilty. If it comes off and damages something/someone else I'm covered.
I am very thunkful it sleeps in a locked and monitored shop !!!

[1968Droptop]

I guess that my boat will be a 50mph boat with a 30K motor!!!!!:D :D
Ill call my insurance guy today and see if I can hook up my fellow boaters;)
396
What was the end result 396 ???

[Tahiti350]

Chris,
this sux. I haven't even checked, but witht he changes for this year I should be well into the 60 mph range, which would put me into the same situation as you, except with O/T headers... I suppose I could go back to my thru drive exhaust and limit it to 59 mph.....

[UltraJet]

Just wanted to add my .02 to this old thread in case it could be of use to anyone out there looking for insurance. I just bought my new jet last year and had trouble insuring it because of the OT headers. Progressive would insure the boat even with OT headers. There rates were high though and were based on a tiered system with regard to how much HP the boat had. My boat, at 390HP, was approx. $700/year for full coverage.

[4trax]

No problem for my son's we just added to homeowners Ins. and his $202.00 for the year.

[tittyman]

I added mine to my homeowners insurance...very cheap with no problems...it was suggested to me by my Farmers agent to do that..plus he said we only need to have the insurance for six months...during the winter we pay nothing..in the spring he just starts the policy again for the summer...

[UltraJet]

That's exactly what I ended up doing. I added it under my homeowners. I have AAA. The key is the adjuster I have been told by various agents. If the adjuster doesn't have a problem with jet boats you are golden.

[UltraJet]

Correction; it's the underwriter not the adjuster that you have to smooth over. Brainfart!:jawdrop:

[jbone]

My boat is $231 a year with Allstate (multiple policy discounts apply). They use HP to Length formula, and my 21 foot 260hp Eliminator barely fits into there guide lines. Boat is worth $10K(too my insurance company) / 100k Liability / 1000 Medical
I tried Hagerty (they do insure classic boats), but my top speed of 60 mph was too high at this time.
Don't go without liability. If "later" had liability, he might have gotten his boat out of the water do to the government agency making it manditory, and filing a claim.
Did Later even have a boat??? And if so, did it really sink???
J

[cyclone]

i'm going to try the approach that my boat isn't a tunnel and instead is a modified v-bottom the next time i apply for insurance.
technically because mine has a center pod it is not a true tunnel.
dont know if it will work but i'll give it a shot.
i'm pretty sure the ot headers and horsepower will be what prevents me from getting insurance in the end.

[Psycho Squid]

I'm working on the insurance issue as we speak. I have a local guy but they have to include a few conditions. Such as, If a loss occurs during racing or an exibition of speed. :( I'll get back to everyone this week. It doesn't seem to be a problem as long as.
1. The boat is used for recreational purposes only.
2. limited use.
3. In my case it is used as a promotional item for my business.
4. Not more than 10yrs old.
5. Is insured for a pre-determined dollar amount.
6. Limited liability coverage.
7. Letter stating intended use.
Basicly I am looking for Fire, Theft, & coverage for loss incurred from towing damage or sinking. Liability is limited and I won't have those numbers till next week. Funny is all things considered the estimates seem to be fair. I guess I'll see. Will keep all posted as to my progress.
Squid.

[Unchained]

I gave up on insurance after being turned down so many times.
Funny thing Is I know a lot of guys who THINK their boat is insured.
They told the insurance man it ran 65 mph. :rolleyes:
An insurance man posted here about this subject a few years ago.
He stated that in the event of a claim, the first order of business for the insurance company is, "how can we get out of paying this claim"
They will bring in an expert who will FIND OUT exactly how fast your boat is capable of going. If the speed was represented as anything less, they would refund your premiums and wash their hands of the whole thing.
The only thing I can see that might be possible would be to misrepresent the boat, get a policy, and only in the event of THEFT would they pay the claim. They wouldn't have the boat to use to deny the claim and it's speed capability wouldn't be a factor. That would have some merit for me.
The insurance man that I have had expensive commercial liability policies with told me that he could get insurance, he already insures some real expensive offshore boats, the policy might cost over 5k / yr though. In Mi the boating season is less than 5 mo. so that might be 1k / mo or $ 250 / wk.
I'd have to give up boating and take up knitting.

[1968Droptop]

Like I said earlier, no way will State Farm insure my boat at all. No chance of adding to my home owners, just no chance. Like Cyclone and others, my boat is a tunnel, and that seems to be the culprit.
I have recently found out that a buddy just got his `95 TPR 21 insured for &1200 a year. He disclaimed 750HP w/ a jet pump. Not at all unreasonable for insurancing hi boat. I'm waiting to see if they'll insure my BLACK marked Daytona. If they do, I'll post the info.
On a second note, I've had a couple PM's from Devin Wozencraft himself. He tells me he's in the process of obtaining insurance for our style of boats. We'll see what comes of it, but either way I'll let you all know.

[cave]

Did any of the agents explain why a Tri hull like yours is non-insurable? Is it a safety deal? Performance maybe? I've been saving up for a Cheyenne. I cant get insurance on my 86 Kachina for any value too old & OT headers. Now after reading this the new hull type I want is non-insurable?
I had insurance till I used it. I didnt lie and the broker had all the photos of my jet for years. After a jet ski T-boned my boat I had to use the insurance. Hell they didnt even re-gel the boat they only paid for paint and structure damage. BS I payed for many years without a claim and when I use it they drop me like its hot.

[Riverbass]

Sawyer Cook Insurance 550 E. Hospitality Lane, Suite 100
San Bernardino, CA 92408
(909) 379-6700 or Toll-Free (800) 655-2814
© Sawyer Cook Insurance
This company should give you insurance they did my jet and bass boat.

[1968Droptop]

Another one has turned me down ! I called Offshore Risk Management about insuring my Daytona. Just heard back yesterday, and got the normal answer, NOPE TOO FAST. What kills me is they'll insure my buddies 21' TPR with more HP. He just got his insured last week through them, $1150 a year. But they won't insure a Daytona, UNFREAKIN REAL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ken F]

They insured a TP Stealth? That just makes no sense.
Ken

[1968Droptop]

They insured a TP Stealth? That just makes no sense.
Ken
Yes, he just signed a policy last Friday. I thought for sure I'd be able to get my Daytona insured through them.

[cave]

You think it may be the Eliminator / Daytona name that's keeping you from getting insurance. I know that the 18 and 19's are a b!tch to get insured. I didnt even notice that you are trying to get insurance for a 21. I wish you luck.

[1968Droptop]

You think it may be the Eliminator / Daytona name that's keeping you from getting insurance. I know that the 18 and 19's are a b!tch to get insured. I didnt even notice that you are trying to get insurance for a 21. I wish you luck.
Thanks for the luck wish cave. That's what I'm going to need, now I'm told by another insurance co. that Lloyds of London does NOT insure these boats, figures :mad: :mad: :mad: