Jeep Wrangler [Archive] - RiverRacer.Net

Froggystyle

01-25-2007, 12:47 PM

Pros: They are relatively inexpensive, hugely capable and readily available. You won't find any other 4WD vehicle on the market able to go where they go stock. With a few mods, they will literally go anywhere they can fit. They are iconic, fun and have a ton of character. With multiple top configurations, they make a great all-year round toy.
Cons: They are cheaply made. Most of the factory Jeep parts are not particularly well constructed with exception of the drivetrain. Interior plastics fail quickly, exterior plastics (lots of it) fade and deteriorate quickly. They don't get particularly good mileage, and they are very small on the inside. With a soft top, they are extremely noisy... less so with a hard top, but still very noisy.
More Pros: If you buy used, you probably won't lose any money on it. There is a world of aftermarket parts available to answer most of the above cons better than the factory ever could. The new Rubicon is truly the bomb. It has all of the big time wish list items checked off from the factory, with a warranty. ARB lockers, Dana 44's, 4:1 transfer case etc...
More Cons: They are pretty much agricultural to drive everyday. GREAT third car, terrible only car.

phebus

01-25-2007, 01:04 PM

Good post Wes, and I definately agree that it makes a great second car, and not a daily driver if you drive the freeway at all. Due to the short wheelbase, you will find all the bumps and seams, and they tend to hobby horse on the freeway.

Larry

01-25-2007, 01:04 PM

Just
Empty
Every
Pocket
I had a '98 that I wore out, and I now have an '04 Unlimited as a daily driver... almost 60k miles in 2 years http://homepages.donobi.net/unionguy/
Loads of fun, but perhaps not for everyone. Very well constructed IMO, the only failures I've had are self inflicted.... http://www.phatserver.net/~anon/Heldorado06/index.htm
The Rubicon is a waste of money, again IMO....the front 44 is nothing more than a 30 with a 44 center section...zero benefit. The air lockers are not ARB's, and the rears are failing at a pretty high rate. Most guys are replacing them with ARB's The 4:1 t-case is sweet though...
12 mpg blows
Soft top is really not all that noisy
I don't care much for the '07's, but I know a guy that went with Jeep to the Rubicon for a week of demonstration with the various press/magazine folks and he said it did quite well there in the stock configuration.

squirt'nmyload

01-25-2007, 01:19 PM

i miss my old one everyday

Kilrtoy

01-25-2007, 01:29 PM

Pros drive Jeeps, Cons drive Rhinos :D There you have it.:)
That is the best one yet

2Driver

01-25-2007, 01:38 PM

love them all, did various lifts and extras to each
If you are going to 4x4 spend a few bucks more and get a Rubicon hands down as Wes indicated.
If not the Rubicon then get the TJ with a Dana 44 axle with the 4:10 gears or worse case Dana 44 with 3:73 with trac-lock (their wording for posi). Research lifts as they are not all created equal. Tera-flex is recommended by the chief design eng from Jeep.
Expect poor performance on the highway and hills with anything over 32" tires unless you re-gear the axles. Room is always an issue.
If I was to get another I would get the 2-door Rubicon unlimited which is the extended jeep 2-door. But that's me. Nothing beats four wheeling with no roof or doors, then being able to drive home in A/C with all (ok most) of your gear
. For now I haven't found anything that beats my 1997 Landcruiser and that includes the Rubicon.

My Man's Sportin' Wood

01-25-2007, 01:43 PM

You guys forgot to mention how lovely it is to drive a soft top in the rain. I've never been in one that didn't drip through the window/door and sometimes even the windshield. As someone else stated, fun for a third car, but I hated driving it everyday. Especially with carseats and babies.

squirt'nmyload

01-25-2007, 01:46 PM

Nothing beats four wheeling with no roof or doors,
and the windshield down!!!!!

mbrown2

01-25-2007, 01:55 PM

As someone else stated, fun for a third car, but I hated driving it everyday.
I agree with you on most jeeps....but just drove the JK Unlimited Sahara to Parker from the 805 and was so suprised how well it drove and how comfortable and spacious it was. To the point, I will be bummed when I lift it and trick it out, but I bought it knowing it would be a 3rd car for off road and weekend use.....this thing stock just drives amazingly smooth.:)

Hallett19

01-25-2007, 03:13 PM

The 4 door Rubicon makes my weiner hard...
http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/image/2006/Q4/102620061335084970.jpg

OCMerrill

01-25-2007, 03:47 PM

We have an unlimited. The longer wheelbase helps the ride.
Would I want to drive it daily? Ummmmm NO.
I can also add that with a 5" Lift, long arm suspension, and nice shocks it does ride pretty damn good. I run 35's and it drives real nice on the street. But it's primary function is to ride behind our MH and wheel with. Hence its 2 years old and only 4k in mileage. 80% of that on the trail somewhere.
I have never owned a std wheelbase jeep but I have ridden in plenty. Its not that bad.
Comparing to a Rhino or any other side x side:idea: I posted a thread a while back saying that jeeps are not the in thing around here. Turns out plenty of us have them. They are not the same type of vehicle so they are hard to compare.
So...looks like both Jeeps and sxs's are in.
Now one thing is for sure...there is a 99.9% chance you will not find a $20k paint job and bling galore on a jeep. Don't do it. Leave that stuff to the sxs's. It's a man law. I herd Burt say it:)

Sportin' Wood

01-25-2007, 04:29 PM

Focker

01-25-2007, 04:44 PM

thanks everyone

Snoseal

01-25-2007, 04:50 PM

I have a '01 W/Soft Top. I have had zero issues with the Soft Top and we live in the great NW. The Jeep is used as a third car and our tow vehicle/dingy, behind the Motorcoach. It can be towed four/flat..

djunkie

01-25-2007, 04:54 PM

The 4 door Rubicon makes my weiner hard...
http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/image/2006/Q4/102620061335084970.jpg
Lets see the picture of it high centered about 5 feet in front of where its at in that pic.

OCMerrill

01-25-2007, 04:58 PM

Lets see the picture of it high centered about 5 feet in front of where its at in that pic.
I think 4" lift and 35's are going to be the norm on the "07" unlimited's.
Also, my soft top does not leak but it's only two years old. The jeep does sit out though.

AzLakeLizard

01-25-2007, 05:02 PM

We have a CJ and have a riot with it in MOAB Utah.. for the Jeep Safari!:D

Froggystyle

01-25-2007, 05:03 PM

I think 4" lift and 35's are going to be the norm on the "07" unlimited's.
Also, my soft top does not leak but it's only two years old. The jeep does sit out though.
We should get together a Jeep run here locally. My business partner just got an '02 with a lot of good mods on it. Price was right, lift is right and it drives really nicely.
I will likely be getting one shortly. I want a Rubicon unlimited with an OME lift, some Road Armor bumpers and a full, actual cage.
I love me some rock crawling. The Rhino is a lot more fun, but I think it would be cool to tow it there with the Jeep and use both. Audrey would love to drive either.

marty722

01-25-2007, 05:45 PM

86 samurai love this thing....

Froggystyle

01-25-2007, 05:52 PM

86 samurai love this thing....
I wonder if a fiberglass body kit for that thing that toughened it up would sell? They seem to be really effective at what they do.

OCMerrill

01-25-2007, 06:07 PM

We should get together a Jeep run here locally. My business partner just got an '02 with a lot of good mods on it. Price was right, lift is right and it drives really nicely.
I will likely be getting one shortly. I want a Rubicon unlimited with an OME lift, some Road Armor bumpers and a full, actual cage.
I love me some rock crawling. The Rhino is a lot more fun, but I think it would be cool to tow it there with the Jeep and use both. Audrey would love to drive either.
Sure - I am a bit jacked up time wise for the next 3-4 weeks or so. After that lets do it.
On your wish list, keep in mind Old Man Emu (sp) is one of the nicest riding stock based lifts going. They top out around 3" or so. If you go over 4" then go long arm and save all the drama. Rubi's already have the slip yoke eliminated.
See if we can get a small run together. The hardest part about trail and rock wheeling is keeping everybody happy at a slow pace. I have had to get used to this and keep my equipment together for an entire weekend. Not easy.
My wife loves to wheel the Jeep. We usually camp near one of the lake beds in Johnson Valley (Lucerne-Landers) but are open to just about anywhere you can get in 4-5 hours drive.
This summer we will hit June Lake loop. I haven't planed this trip out yet but we look forward to this every year. Wheeling is not that tough but the scenery rocks and we fish. So you wheel into a fishing hole with no-one around. Nice. I could go on and on......

Mandelon

01-25-2007, 06:19 PM

We have this 94 YJ, its nothing to brag about but it gets us up and down everything we've aimed it so far. Cost me $4,000. All I've done to it was an oil change and a battery. Came with a 3 or 4 " lift.
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/42martinez_007-med.jpg
The top only leaks when it rains.......and only a little at the windshield. Its noisier than hell inside. Louder with the top on it than without. I find that foam earplugs work well. You can actually hear the radio and can have conversations at speed.
Its cheap, and gets decent mileage if you are just putting around on the trails. Mine's kinda stiff, so the ride is pretty rough, but as said above, its no daily driver. The 4 banger is weak, that's for sure. Its fine around town, but on the freeway you need to plan ahead and pull to the right if there is a hill... :D

Troy McClure

01-25-2007, 06:40 PM

We usually camp near one of the lake beds in Johnson Valley (Lucerne-Landers) but are open to just about anywhere you can get in 4-5 hours drive.
You mean like here:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/3216IMG_0253.JPG
Always a good time in Lucerne.

TCHB

01-25-2007, 07:06 PM

I have a 2000 Jeep Wrangler and love it. I leave it in Havasu and use it around town, some time out in the dirt, and even sometime pulling the boats around.
The TJs ride pretty nice, and I really like the hard top, air conditioner, stereo and it looks pretty cool jacked up.

Troy McClure

01-25-2007, 07:24 PM

The Rubicon is a waste of money, again IMO....the front 44 is nothing more than a 30 with a 44 center section...zero benefit. The air lockers are not ARB's, and the rears are failing at a pretty high rate. Most guys are replacing them with ARB's The 4:1 t-case is sweet though...
I would disagree with this. I think for the $3-4k additional you get a lot. True, once you wrap it with 35's or bigger you're looking at new axels, steering, etc. etc. to beef it up but that would be the case with any other model. That's the first I've heard that the front is nothing more than a beefed up 30. I remember seeing something about the 44 not being a 44 but can't log onto ROF right now (where I think I saw the article which that claim was disputed).
By the links in your post, you do a lot more serious wheeling than I do so I would imagine that you know what you are talking about. Much of it is news to me though. Have not heard of the failures that you wrote about.
Either way, they are fun. It seems that I am pulling the jeep out of the garage more than my "daily driver". Fun to drive. Oh, mine never leaks when it's not raining too.:D

OCMerrill

01-25-2007, 07:36 PM

You mean like here:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/3216IMG_0253.JPG
Always a good time in Lucerne.
Nice. I remember you posting that pics a while back. We were there the same weekend.
Huge wind storm over at soggy on Saturday of that weekend. Made a mess beyond comprehension, ruined my awning, dust everywhere:sqeyes: . I felt no pain wheeling about though. My motor home still won't talk to me and its older. You think it would know by now to close the vents and retract the awning when the owners are away and there is a dust storm.
I just hate the place:D :D :D I am never going back :D :D :D
If I remember right that is a new to you jeep? How do you like it?

Troy McClure

01-25-2007, 07:55 PM

Nice. I remember you posting that pics a while back. We were there the same weekend.
Huge wind storm over at soggy on Saturday of that weekend. Made a mess beyond comprehension, ruined my awning, dust everywhere:sqeyes: . I felt no pain wheeling about though. My motor home still won't talk to me and its older. You think it would know by now to close the vents and retract the awning when the owners are away and there is a dust storm.
I just hate the place:D :D :D I am never going back :D :D :D
If I remember right that is a new to you jeep? How do you like it?
That's right I forgot about that.
The Jeep's been great. Had a big trip planned over New Years Eve at the river with a big group but I ended up getting sick and had to leave early. Since then work has been keeping me busy so no trips since.
Tried to go up Silverado Canyon a month or so ago and the trail was closed. Haven't figured out when it is closed or open during the year. I tried calling the ranger station but kept getting cut off.
Planning on heading out to Topock/Havasu in the next couple of weeks to try to break it in some more.
No mods on it yet, it wheels pretty good stock, but have a lift, tires etc, etc in the works.

Troy McClure

01-25-2007, 08:29 PM

....the front 44 is nothing more than a 30 with a 44 center section...zero benefit. .
I know the original poster didn't ask about Rubicons but I've finally found what I was looking for. Here is a quote from another site:
"The rubicon 44 uses a dana 44 differential housing, differential, and gears. Its also has 30 spline shafts which are larger than the 30. Up untill 1995, dana 30's used spicer 260 u-joints, in 95 they started using the spicer 297 joints (now 760) which untill then were only used in dana 44's, these are the joints used in the rubi 44. The rubicon does use dana 30 style unit bearings. So its all 44 stuff till you get to the outers."
Don't know who's right or if it really matters with the type of wheeling that I do, I was just curious I guess.:confused:

Mohave Vice

01-25-2007, 08:44 PM

Bought a '91 Wrangler in Sept 1990. Drive it everyday. Have replaced the soft top, brakes, clutch, tires and a few
stereo systems. She's a keeper.

mbrown2

01-25-2007, 08:55 PM

Don't know who's right or if it really matters with the type of wheeling that I do, I was just curious I guess.:confused:
To about 8 out of 10 people buying jeeps the Rubi is a good buy as 8 out of 10 people are not wheeling to the point of breaking front 30's and from my observations the Rubi lockers have been holding up fine....
I had a TJ with 44 and ARB's and used to think the same....Rubi lockers were not the same as ARB's...
Well, never saw a Rubi break on most Cat 3 stuff and the stock Rubi's were making it thru the same stuff I was.
People (the 2 out of 10) that are wheeling cat 5 and above (ala Sportinwood) are not normally buying new jeeps but building from a used jeep or building buggy's and are running D60's, Arb's, upgraded Transfer Cases, etc..etc......all the stuff that really adds to $$ to the jeep but necessary for the places they are going.

OCMerrill

01-25-2007, 10:13 PM

To about 8 out of 10 people buying jeeps the Rubi is a good buy as 8 out of 10 people are not wheeling to the point of breaking front 30's and from my observations the Rubi lockers have been holding up fine....
I had a TJ with 44 and ARB's and used to think the same....Rubi lockers were not the same as ARB's...
Well, never saw a Rubi break on most Cat 3 stuff and the stock Rubi's were making it thru the same stuff I was.
People (the 2 out of 10) that are wheeling cat 5 and above (ala Sportinwood) are not normally buying new jeeps but building from a used jeep or building buggy's and are running D60's, Arb's, upgraded Transfer Cases, etc..etc......all the stuff that really adds to $$ to the jeep but necessary for the places they are going.
I bought a Rubi because I knew I would take it to where it is now with a 35 tire max and thats it. I feel its a nice round up of parts for the money. If someone wants to crawl hard then buy something used up and build it from there. IMO of course. Tear apart an X and stuff a 60 or a ford 8.8 and an atlas II and dont waste the rubi money.
In the two years I have had my jeep I have had nothing wrong. The locker pumps work well and they are cycled on and off many times on a trail (I have made the 4high-lock mod) and the 4:1 case works well also. I think the 4:10 gears with 33's are good enough and I suffer a bit here with 35's but we are still working beyond my ability to drive it. I kept the wheels and are running a 315 tire. So I am truly wheeling the Rubi I purchased. Will it last 10 years? I dont know...will I?
Would I get a 6 speed again....no I am installing a thumb throttle in the next few weeks so I can work things a little better. 1st gear in the 6 speed works well with my taller (now) gears so I gain a little here.

2Driver

01-26-2007, 06:04 AM

I will likely be getting one shortly. I want a Rubicon unlimited with an OME lift,
The Rhino is a lot more fun, but I think it would be cool to tow it there with the Jeep and use both.
Now a Jeep?! Why don't you just get it over with and get an 18 wheeler so you'll have room for one of everything :D
BTW: I did a OME lift on the Landcruiser and have been very happy.

Sportin' Wood

01-26-2007, 06:36 AM

I wonder if a fiberglass body kit for that thing that toughened it up would sell? They seem to be really effective at what they do.
I need to sit down for a beer with you.
I don't think a samari kit would sell but we could come up with something that might.:D

TexasChopper

01-26-2007, 06:56 AM

Just got a new JK 2dr... night and day between my TJ...80MPH on the highway it's really quiet and drives great.

2Driver

01-26-2007, 07:00 AM

I'm slow.... JK?

OCMerrill

01-26-2007, 07:06 AM

I'm slow.... JK?
Latest version of the Wrangler.
CJ then YJ then TJ (LJ for unlimiteds thru 06), now JK.

Caljamr

01-26-2007, 09:53 AM

Does JK stand for the four door model?
I had a 1991 Jeep Wrangler, Lifted on 35"'s and it was the best / worst vehicle i ever had for all the reasons above. Would i get another one? In a heart beat....but it wouldn't be my primary vehicle.

mbrown2

01-26-2007, 10:21 AM

Does JK stand for the four door model?
No just the new model....
JK stands for the new jeep chassis, body, ect; which is new and has some differences from the TJ (1997-2006).... The wrangler is the two door model and wrangler unlimited is the four door... No more extended wheelbase two door wrangler unlimited.

OCMerrill

01-26-2007, 11:44 AM

No just the new model....
JK stands for the new jeep chassis, body, ect; which is new and has some differences from the TJ (1997-2006).... The wrangler is the two door model and wrangler unlimited is the four door... No more extended wheelbase two door wrangler unlimited.
Yep - Like they now have an engine from a minivan (V6 vrs I6) and the fact that not much of anything is used from TJ to JK. Dana axles including the current Rubi locker setups, xfer cases, and one manual 6 sp. All else is new or there abouts. Frame, sheet metal, all the interior, tons of engineering in NVH reduction.
You also get 32" tires out of the gate on Rubi's.

Caljamr

01-26-2007, 02:04 PM

Troy McClure

01-26-2007, 02:22 PM

I was just checking out http://www.jeep.com/en/wranglers/index.html and last years wrangler SE with a 4 cylinder is more expensive than this years X model with a 202hp V6.
Did i miss something? Is last years model better or ?
I don't think that they sell the 4 cyl. model anymore, I believe that they are all I-6 for '06.
For 07 Jeep did lower the price. However, don't go by the Jeep website for actual price on '06's. I got mine for almost $6k less than sticker. I doubt that the dealers are giving that good of a markdown on '07's.
Also, as stated above, '07's are almost all new, not tested in that form. Not that they won't hold up, but....they are an all new model although I think DC used the motor in another vehicle. Not sure though.
Might want to check the papers on Sat. and trader online has some pricing on new models too.

Troy McClure

01-26-2007, 02:28 PM

I just searched the Jeep website and I guess that Integriy Jeep in Vegas is selling a 4 cyl Jeep. I thought that I heard they discontinued it..,,,OOPS:hammer2: :hammer2:

Focker

01-26-2007, 02:55 PM

Caljamr

01-26-2007, 03:28 PM

The key word was tame. The Rubicon wrangler is perfect for you. If your going into some serious rockcrawling then listen to what some people of posted above.
I checked out that jeep at Integrity of Las Vegas. It's not bad could be had for cheap with cash in hand. The one they showed me was used and it was pulled behind a motorhome so the actual miles could be less than what the odometer read. I don't know if the mileage racks up when towed on all four wheels.
The salesman said he didn't have any '06 4 cyl on the lot.
'06 Wrangler SE
MSRP* starting at: $19,050
Command-Trac® four-wheel drive
Quadra-Coil suspension
2.4-liter I4 with HD six-speed manual transmission
15 x 7-inch steel wheels
Convenient mini floor console

Troy McClure

01-26-2007, 03:34 PM

So as I read the responses regarding the Rubicon and I understand the upgrades it comes with for rock climbing is it something I would need if I only want it for tame 4 wheeling. Is it worth the extra 5k to invest now for later use or on resale?
I don't really know the answer to that. However, the 4:1 t-case, 4.10 gears the lockers and the bigger diffs. all seemed like a good deal for a few K more. To do those mods to a Sport would cost close to that although you would be able to pick and choose (I'm guessing) better/stronger parts.
So far I've been able to go anywhere that my friend goes in his and he has a 4" lift and 33's. As a matter of fact, mine locked up easily went over a few places he did while he was spinning tires.
As stated above if you're really interested in building a rig, buy an older one and build it up. If you're looking to buy one and start wheeling without a lot shop time, you can certainly do that with a Rubicon.
Either way, more buttons and gizmos are always worth the money. :D :D

mbrown2

01-26-2007, 04:17 PM

So as I read the responses regarding the Rubicon and I understand the upgrades it comes with for rock climbing is it something I would need if I only want it for tame 4 wheeling. Is it worth the extra 5k to invest now for later use or on resale?
If you are talking about an 06 or earlier TJ Rubi, I think it is worth it for the Rubi's lockers front/back, D44 front/back and 4 to 1 transfer case...these seperate add up pretty quick. On an 06 the price is not that dramatic and it comes with 16" rims with BFG Mud Terrains....basically you don't really need to touch or lift anything....so imo it is more then worth the 3k difference...
Lockers (Arbs) 2K , D44 Front = 1K , 4 to 1 Teraflex kit 1K and you still need better tires on an X or Sahara to go wheeling so you are ahead financially from the start with the Rubi. With the sort of tame off roading you will be doing, just think you are ahead with the Rubi and resale will be better. However, an X or Sahara will probably suffice in the same tame offroading, tame is pretty generic, so I might be a little subjective.
On an 07 Rubi....get in line...I had one ordered and it would have probably been March or April till it got here so I got a Sahara I will work with....Guys that had ordered Rubi's in October are still waiting...not but 1 or 2 in all of Cali, which Cali gets more Jeep allocation then all of Canada.
Hope that helps.